Abu Garcias Vendetta rated better than Shimanos Cumulus!!!! 2024
Captain Obvious reply :
At least that is what tackletour.com said. the Vendetta scored a 8.33 while the Cumulus scored an 8.00.
Of course its only .33, and the main reason is because it got a much higher score for costing so much less.
At the same time the vendetta score only half a point below the Cumulus in performance and application.
I'm not saying that the vendetta would win in a head to head test. But when you consider that you can buy about four vendettas for one Cumulus. It makes it even more amazing that the vendetta can even compete.
Capt.O
Pantera61 reply :
QuoteAt least that is what tackletour.com said. the Vendetta scored a 8.33 while the Cumulus scored an 8.00.Of course its only .33, and the main reason is because it got a much higher score for costing so much less.
At the same time the vendetta score only half a point below the Cumulus in performance and application.
I'm not saying that the vendetta would win in a head to head test. But when you consider that you can buy about four vendettas for one Cumulus. It makes it even more amazing that the vendetta can even compete.
Capt.O
UPS dropped off my fifth Vendetta, the heavy flippin stick earlier in the day. The Vendettas are great rods but they are no Cumuli?
b.Lee reply :
I just purchased two vendetta rods, one for small swimbaits and a MH spinning rod for my Stradic CI4
Anyone have any experience with there Spinning Rods?
Pantera61 reply :
QuoteI just purchased two vendetta rods, one for small swimbaits and a MH spinning rod for my Stradic CI4Anyone have any experience with there Spinning Rods?
I have the 6'9" ML. I like it for Flick Shakin and other finesse duties. Sensitive and power but a tiny bit tip heavy.
Diablos reply :
I have 2 Vendettas and while they are a great value for the price they feel like bass rods from the 1970's in terms of weight.
Just the decals weigh like 4 ounces.
seyone reply :
I own the 7' m spinning rod and I think it is ok. my complaint is it is very tip heavy. I guess for a rod at that price I shouldn't complain.
Pantera61 reply :
QuoteI have 2 Vendettas and while they are a great value for the price they feel like bass rods from the 1970's in terms of weight.Just the decals weigh like 4 ounces.
The 6'9" casting model is 5.1 oz, the MBR783C GLX2000 weighs in at 4.8 oz. I would hardly consider that a great difference in weights.
s13john reply :
yah vendettas are awsome ive got the 7.3 mh its an awsome toad, paddle tail rod ... and i got the 7.6 hard on the way .... wooo
Redlinerobert reply :
Tackletour shmackletour. Cal doesnt know what he's talking about. ;D
Those two rods do not compete in the same market class. The guy looking at the Vendetta more than likely is not considering the Cumulus, or vice versa.
I'm not knocking the Vendetta. Hell I honestly don't like either of those two rods. However I will tell you that if you were to hold both rods, there is no question that the Cumulus is the more refined stick.
It's just like shopping for cars guys. The same guy looking at a Subaru WRX is not looking at a Murcielago, or vice versa...
And for those of you wondering, Cal is a good friend of mine, so I can bust his chops from time to time. 
s13john reply :
funny you say that ... not a wrx but pretty much the same thing ... i haven't handled a cumulus but i have a cumara and a vendetta and i seem to be grabbing the vendetta more ... but i will give it to you its more refined..ie lambo... but is the performance really that different. But your right if i had the budget .. id be all cumulus .... ... or maby a custom super awsome horny toad rod.... ;D ;D ;D....
burleytog reply :
Yep, and I rate the Wright & McGill Tessera rods as slightly better than the Loomis GLX.
Equipment reviews...what a racket.
KYntucky Warmouth reply :
In regards to the Abu spinning rods, I had a 7'MH and they feel slapped together, almost like they spent alot of time on the casting rods and realized they needed a spinning rod last minute. They are heavy, unbalanced, clumsy, and the threading on the real seat is about an inche to long.
seyone reply :
QuoteIn regards to the Abu spinning rods, I had a 7'MH and they feel slapped together, almost like they spent alot of time on the casting rods and realized they needed a spinning rod last minute. They are heavy, unbalanced, clumsy, and the threading on the real seat is about an inche to long.
I agree, maybe I need to pick up one of the casting rods since everyone raves over them. For the spinning rod I would spend a little more and get a bucoo
ToledoEF reply :
anybody have experience with the 7'3 H Ex Fast? I was thinking of getting that one, but also wasnt sure what to use it for.
Captain Obvious reply :
QuoteHowever I will tell you that if you were to hold both rods, there is no question that the Cumulus is the more refined stick.
I agree but is it $300 better? Seriously if I'm spending that much on a rod I'd expect it to beat a rod like the Vendetta no matter who's doing the review. I mean they shouldn't even be in the same ball park.
Not saying that those guys at Tackle Tour have the finale word on it but they do test a lot of tackle and they seem to have very high standards consider that they compare most rods to G.Loomis GLX
b.Lee reply :
d**n, I bought a spinning rod thinking it would be decent. Well hopefully it will suit my needs. Mainl dropshot and light lures.
Redlinerobert reply :
QuoteQuoteHowever I will tell you that if you were to hold both rods, there is no question that the Cumulus is the more refined stick.I agree but is it $300 better? Seriously if I'm spending that much on a rod I'd expect it to beat a rod like the Vendetta no matter who's doing the review. I mean they shouldn't even be in the same ball park.
Not saying that those guys at Tackle Tour have the finale word on it but they do test a lot of tackle and they seem to have very high standards consider that they compare most rods to G.Loomis GLX
That's just it. It doesnt have to be $300 better. The Cumulus rod is Shimano's flagship. It has to be priced accordingly. Im sure youre getting a great stick for the money. Heck, look at the new Megabass Arms rods. They go for a cool grand! Is that rod 3x better than the Cumulus?
Like I said earlier, I personally, dont like either rod. The Cumulus is too minimal for my tastes. I'm also not a fan of Garcia products. But that's just me.
Pantera61 reply :
QuoteQuoteHowever I will tell you that if you were to hold both rods, there is no question that the Cumulus is the more refined stick.I agree but is it $300 better? Seriously if I'm spending that much on a rod I'd expect it to beat a rod like the Vendetta no matter who's doing the review. I mean they shouldn't even be in the same ball park.
Not saying that those guys at Tackle Tour have the finale word on it but they do test a lot of tackle and they seem to have very high standards consider that they compare most rods to G.Loomis GLX
Tell ya what, I haven't fished the Cumulus but I have fished the Steez, 6'3" casting and 7'1" casting and the Vendetta 6'3" casting and 6'9" casting. Component and finish wise, it's the Steez all day long. Performance wise, the Vendetta takes it far and away.
Just wait until the Veritas hits the scene, cause then the game is really on!
0119 reply :
Jokes on us all. They probably come from the same factory in china and just exit out of different shipping docks. What anybody likes or prefers in a rod is too subjective. Ive learned to hate everything about my cumara rods with just a little use. I fell in love with the only vendetta I have a 6'3".
steezy reply :
QuoteQuoteQuoteHowever I will tell you that if you were to hold both rods, there is no question that the Cumulus is the more refined stick.I agree but is it $300 better? Seriously if I'm spending that much on a rod I'd expect it to beat a rod like the Vendetta no matter who's doing the review. I mean they shouldn't even be in the same ball park.
Not saying that those guys at Tackle Tour have the finale word on it but they do test a lot of tackle and they seem to have very high standards consider that they compare most rods to G.Loomis GLX
Tell ya what, I haven't fished the Cumulus but I have fished the Steez, 6'3" casting and 7'1" casting and the Vendetta 6'3" casting and 6'9" casting. Component and finish wise, it's the Steez all day long. Performance wise, the Vendetta takes it far and away.
Just wait until the Veritas hits the scene, cause then the game is really on!
Vendetta 6'9" vs Steez 7' ?
I've fished both rods and there no question, the Steez not only is better looking with better components, it completely out performs the Vendetta by a mile.
The $90 (5.1 oz) rod is totally blown away by the $450 (3.8 oz) rod.
Pantera61 reply :
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteHowever I will tell you that if you were to hold both rods, there is no question that the Cumulus is the more refined stick.I agree but is it $300 better? Seriously if I'm spending that much on a rod I'd expect it to beat a rod like the Vendetta no matter who's doing the review. I mean they shouldn't even be in the same ball park.
Not saying that those guys at Tackle Tour have the finale word on it but they do test a lot of tackle and they seem to have very high standards consider that they compare most rods to G.Loomis GLX
Tell ya what, I haven't fished the Cumulus but I have fished the Steez, 6'3" casting and 7'1" casting and the Vendetta 6'3" casting and 6'9" casting. Component and finish wise, it's the Steez all day long. Performance wise, the Vendetta takes it far and away.
Just wait until the Veritas hits the scene, cause then the game is really on!
Vendetta 6'9" vs Steez 7' ?
I've fished both rods and there no question, the Steez not only is better looking with better components, it completely out performs the Vendetta by a mile.
The $90 (5.1 oz) rod is totally blown away by the $450 (3.8 oz) rod.
The Daiwa Steez 7'1" Compile X rod, not the 7' Steez rod. Not just blown away by the Vendetta but total epic failure. And just for the record, if you're down to a 1.3 oz difference between rods, you may want to re-examine your choice of sports. Tiddlywinks comes to mind.
rayrock99 reply :
You guys must be smoking crack if u think the Vendetta is a better rod than the Cumulus rod! I have both, I have the 6'5 model and and the 6'9 Vendetta the Vendetta isn't in the same class as the Cumulus!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Pantera61 reply :
This has passed from the slightly amusing to the hysterically funny. ;D
adclem reply :
The Vendetta looks a lot like my Falcon Cara T7 Split grip rod. So after reading this yesterday I went up to BPS and took my Revo Premier. I put the reel on the Vendetta rod and it felt pretty good. So I brought one home and am heading out to compare it to my Falcon today. Updates coming later today...
Later,
tyrius. reply :
Per the review: "average sensitivity"
"The VTC69-6 is a fine product that promises to redefine the value rod market."
And people are comparing it to a Steez or a GLX or a Cumulus?
These reviews are done with price in mind. The vendetta may be an 8.33 for an $80 rod but if it cost $150 it would be much lower. If it cost $300 it likely would be rated as poor.
Captain Obvious reply :
QuoteThe $90 (5.1 oz) rod is totally blown away by the $450 (3.8 oz)
Ok I have a hard time believing that 2 oz make's such a big difference in a fishing rod.
And for that matter did you realize that the Vendetta VTC69-6 weighs only .3 oz more than G.Loomis MBR783C GLX.
QuoteThese reviews are done with price in mind.
Price does play a part in the reviews but all rods are tested against a base rod which is usely a G.Loomis GLX
Like I said I'm not saying that the Vendetta can out fish a Steez, GLX, or Cumulus.
I just found it impressive that a $79 rod got Higher reviews than a $300 rod
Capt.O
Bigs reply :
This thread is entertaining to say the least. How can anyone even mention vendetta in the same sentence as cumulus , steez or loomis glx ? I own a 7'mh vendetta spinning rod and it isnt all that great. It is stout tho but very very heavy and unbalanced which makes it feel even heavier. I got lucky and only paid 40 bux shipped for it tho and it was new so I cant complain, I let my fiancee and guests use it. If you are on a budget I can think of better rods for around a hundred bux.
Captain Obvious reply :
Quotevery very heavy
You must not fish a GLX because those are also very very heavy
RussBert reply :
Will a $300 rod catch more fish than an $80 rod?
This is a serious question. Is the performance of the top-of-the line pricey rods (Shimano, Steez, Loomis, St Croix, etc) so advanced that it will help any angler catch more?
I have a Quantum Superlite M/MF ($229), a Crucial ($150) A Compre ($100) and three SCII blanked St Croix's ($70 to $100) and a couple BPS Xtreme rods.
I don't catch more with one rod or the other? Heck, I really like the Compre line of rods!
Are high end rods & reels more of a trophy to the owners, who can brag they have "The Best" or are there hard facts that the expensive gear catches them more fish?
BrianinMD reply :
Love my Vendetta but I can't believe there are equal to a 300 dollar rod. I have heard from others the baitcast line is a whole lot better then the spinning rods.
Pantera61 reply :
QuoteThis thread is entertaining to say the least. How can anyone even mention vendetta in the same sentence as cumulus , steez or loomis glx ? I own a 7'mh vendetta spinning rod and it isnt all that great. It is stout tho but very very heavy and unbalanced which makes it feel even heavier. I got lucky and only paid 40 bux shipped for it tho and it was new so I cant complain, I let my fiancee and guests use it. If you are on a budget I can think of better rods for around a hundred bux.
quoting from Cal, TackleTour, link below:
http://www.tackletour.com/reviewdaiwacompx.html
"Sensitivity: This is where I really expected this rod to shine. It flat out feels like a stick that is pre-tensioned to deliver the ultimate in sensitivity. In actual fishing applications, I was, in fact, disappointed. It is a sensitive rod, do not get me wrong. In fact, I find it on par with my BCR893 GLX and even my Megabass F5 1/2 68XFti SB Diablo - both very good jig sticks. But with the way this rod feels in hand, I was expecting to be blown away, especially when fishing a jig, and I wasn't. Bottom composition is fairly easy to discern with this rod, but where I was hoping for extra-feedback was in actual strike detection. While fishing the jig, I still encountered a fair number of pressure bites which lead me to the conclusion this rod is no more sensitive than the other two I mentioned above. Perhaps I was just expecting too much."
Now, for my experience regarding the Steez Compile X sensitivity:
I was fishing a small, club tournament on a lake with good clarity. I was able to see a bass take the jig and not detect the bite. No once but multiple times. The Vendetta 6'9" casting rod, on the other hand, delivered crisp detection of both fish and bottom structure.
You can take your $300 or $400 or $559 rod and YOUR PRIDE, wear the price tag on your sleeve and feel real good about it or you can try something new, that performs beyond it's price point. There's still a difference between the real enthusiast and custom made stuff but the gap is narrowing.
The Vendetta rods could use a bit of refinement. I'm using the 6'9" ML and it's not a Megabass or Evergreen rod but it holds it's own.
KYntucky Warmouth reply :
Quoted**n, I bought a spinning rod thinking it would be decent. Well hopefully it will suit my needs. Mainl dropshot and light lures.
They are decent rods, it just feels like Abu spent alot less time in development with them than the casting rods.
Captain Obvious reply :
I personal think that super lines have really changed the rod market. When mono was the main line I think there was a major difference between high dollar rods and those in the mid-price rang.
fathom reply :
put a $79 price tag on the glx and a $350 price tag on the vendetta.
see how that review works out.
Pantera61 reply :
Quoteput a $79 price tag on the glx and a $350 price tag on the vendetta.
see how that review works out.
nothing like deliberately missing the point or tossing red herring into chowder. While you're swapping the price tags, why don't you swap the components while you're at it? See how that goes.
steezy reply :
QuoteQuoteThis thread is entertaining to say the least. How can anyone even mention vendetta in the same sentence as cumulus , steez or loomis glx ? I own a 7'mh vendetta spinning rod and it isnt all that great. It is stout tho but very very heavy and unbalanced which makes it feel even heavier. I got lucky and only paid 40 bux shipped for it tho and it was new so I cant complain, I let my fiancee and guests use it. If you are on a budget I can think of better rods for around a hundred bux.quoting from Cal, TackleTour, link below:
http://www.tackletour.com/reviewdaiwacompx.html
"Sensitivity: This is where I really expected this rod to shine. It flat out feels like a stick that is pre-tensioned to deliver the ultimate in sensitivity. In actual fishing applications, I was, in fact, disappointed. It is a sensitive rod, do not get me wrong. In fact, I find it on par with my BCR893 GLX and even my Megabass F5 1/2 68XFti SB Diablo - both very good jig sticks. But with the way this rod feels in hand, I was expecting to be blown away, especially when fishing a jig, and I wasn't. Bottom composition is fairly easy to discern with this rod, but where I was hoping for extra-feedback was in actual strike detection. While fishing the jig, I still encountered a fair number of pressure bites which lead me to the conclusion this rod is no more sensitive than the other two I mentioned above. Perhaps I was just expecting too much."
Now, for my experience regarding the Steez Compile X sensitivity:
I was fishing a small, club tournament on a lake with good clarity. I was able to see a bass take the jig and not detect the bite. No once but multiple times. The Vendetta 6'9" casting rod, on the other hand, delivered crisp detection of both fish and bottom structure.
You can take your $300 or $400 or $559 rod and YOUR PRIDE, wear the price tag on your sleeve and feel real good about it or you can try something new, that performs beyond it's price point. There's still a difference between the real enthusiast and custom made stuff but the gap is narrowing.
The Vendetta rods could use a bit of refinement. I'm using the 6'9" ML and it's not a Megabass or Evergreen rod but it holds it's own.
I also use the 7'1" compileX rod for jigs and apparently we must be using different compileX rods cause mine is very sensitive. I can feel the bottom contour so well I could draw it on a canvas.
Im not knocking the Vendetta rods they catch fish and thats all that matters but to me they are not better than my Steez or Loomis GLX rods and price is not the determining factor in my opinion of the rods.
Pantera61 reply :
QuoteQuoteQuoteThis thread is entertaining to say the least. How can anyone even mention vendetta in the same sentence as cumulus , steez or loomis glx ? I own a 7'mh vendetta spinning rod and it isnt all that great. It is stout tho but very very heavy and unbalanced which makes it feel even heavier. I got lucky and only paid 40 bux shipped for it tho and it was new so I cant complain, I let my fiancee and guests use it. If you are on a budget I can think of better rods for around a hundred bux.quoting from Cal, TackleTour, link below:
http://www.tackletour.com/reviewdaiwacompx.html
"Sensitivity: This is where I really expected this rod to shine. It flat out feels like a stick that is pre-tensioned to deliver the ultimate in sensitivity. In actual fishing applications, I was, in fact, disappointed. It is a sensitive rod, do not get me wrong. In fact, I find it on par with my BCR893 GLX and even my Megabass F5 1/2 68XFti SB Diablo - both very good jig sticks. But with the way this rod feels in hand, I was expecting to be blown away, especially when fishing a jig, and I wasn't. Bottom composition is fairly easy to discern with this rod, but where I was hoping for extra-feedback was in actual strike detection. While fishing the jig, I still encountered a fair number of pressure bites which lead me to the conclusion this rod is no more sensitive than the other two I mentioned above. Perhaps I was just expecting too much."
Now, for my experience regarding the Steez Compile X sensitivity:
I was fishing a small, club tournament on a lake with good clarity. I was able to see a bass take the jig and not detect the bite. No once but multiple times. The Vendetta 6'9" casting rod, on the other hand, delivered crisp detection of both fish and bottom structure.
You can take your $300 or $400 or $559 rod and YOUR PRIDE, wear the price tag on your sleeve and feel real good about it or you can try something new, that performs beyond it's price point. There's still a difference between the real enthusiast and custom made stuff but the gap is narrowing.
The Vendetta rods could use a bit of refinement. I'm using the 6'9" ML and it's not a Megabass or Evergreen rod but it holds it's own.
I also use the 7'1" compileX rod for jigs and apparently we must be using different compileX rods cause mine is very sensitive. I can feel the bottom contour so well I could draw it on a canvas.
Im not knocking the Vendetta rods they catch fish and thats all that matters but to me they are not better than my Steez or Loomis GLX rods and price is not the determining factor in my opinion of the rods.
Could I have had a bum rod? Anything is possible but I can only go by my personal experience and not rely on second hand reports or conjecture. I had the 6'3" Steez casting rod as well, used it for topwaters and shallow cranks, the 6'3" Vendetta performs as well FOR THOSE APPLICATIONS.
I have some high dollar rods and I would be the first to say withdraw pricing from tackle comparisons. A rod or reel for that matter, should be judged on it's on merit.
rubba bubba reply :
The Reel Wars were starting to peter out, fortunately we have some sweet Rod Wars action to help us out in the interim. Carry on.
Glenn reply :
My rod's better than your rod!
There. I said it. It's out there. ;D
Captain Obvious reply :
What I find that is funny is that what started out as Vendetta vs. Cumulus has turned in to Vendetta vs. Steez,GLX, and Cumulus
Also I don't know why guys with the expensive stuff have attacked this thread like this.
Might just be me but it seems they are trying to defend spending so much on rods when they know they could have got the same product for hundreds cheaper
Pantera61 reply :
QuoteWhat I find that is funny is that what started out as Vendetta vs. Cumulus has turned in to Vendetta vs. Steez,GLX, and CumulusAlso I don't know why guys with the expensive stuff have attacked this thread like this.
Might just be me but it seems they are trying to defend spending so much on rods when they know they could have got the same product for hundreds cheaper
Quick background, if I may. I've been using JDM rods for probably 7 years now, Megabass, Evergreen and Daiwa (Japan Versions). Last year, I got tired of worrying about stuff walking away during tournaments, stuff being kicked overboard or broken so I picked up the Vendetta 6'9" casting model. I liked it so much I picked up the 6'3" caster, than the 7' med moderate, then the 6'9" spinning and the 7'6" heavy flippin.
For about $350 I have a great set of rods that I can take anywhere I use any way I see fit without a second thought.
I wouldn't use them in tournaments if they were garbage, that's insanity. The gap between great equipment and excellent is narrowing.
J Francho reply :
QuoteThe gap between great equipment and excellent is narrowing.
That was my EXACT thought after spending some time with my buddy's two 7' Vendettas, I think one was a mf, and the other a mhf.
Diablos reply :
QuoteQuoteThe gap between great equipment and excellent is narrowing.That was my EXACT thought after spending some time with my buddy's two 7' Vendettas, I think one was a mf, and the other a mhf.
I totally agree about the price gap narrowing. I haven't spent over $200 for a rod since my GLX a few years ago and don't feel one bit jealous of any $300+ rod.
I do own Vendettas and enjoy using them and if you ask me at $79 they are a great price. What's even more unbelievable is the fact they cost dealers like Bass Pro and TW $37 wholesale according to the 2010 Henry's master wholesale catalog.
SJB1226 reply :
TT is not comparing a 400 dollar rod to a 80 dollar rod in its score the reviews are with price point in mind. like others have said if you put a vendetta in the 300+ price point it would score as poor. dont for one second tell me that you can pick up your vendetta and then my Ever Green Black raven and tell me the vendetta is even in the same ball park... because simply said it isnt... I have 3 Black ravens and paid between 830 and 920 for the rods... and would buy them again even at 200 dollars more because they are that amazing! the vendetta is probably a fine maybe very fine 80 dollar rod and it may very well compete with and be a better over all rod then any other 80-120 dollar class rod out there IDK ive never touched one... but it cant compete with a rod in the 200+ dollar point... there is a LARGE difference in rod prices and for a reason in 99% of rods you get what you pay for... like i said the vendetta may be a stellar rod at 80 bucks and my steez rods are stellar rods at the 380-650 price points...
is really is people not understand the reviews are with price in mind.
Redlinerobert reply :
LOL at this thread. ;D
Captain Obvious reply :
Quoteif you put a vendetta in the 300+ price point it would score as poor
We know that they consider price point. But for their lab test they test it against a base line rod and the MBR783C GLX2000 retails for around $325
TT.comQuoteFirst stop for our VTC69-6 was the lab and an appointment with the RoD WRACK where we discovered this stick's RoD value is almost spot on with our TSFO baseline rod, the MBR783C GLX2000!
So as you can see at least in the lab the Vendetta was tested at a $300 price point.
Jake. reply :
QuoteTT.comQuoteFirst stop for our VTC69-6 was the lab and an appointment with the RoD WRACK where we discovered this stick's RoD value is almost spot on with our TSFO baseline rod, the MBR783C GLX2000!So as you can see at least in the lab the Vendetta was tested at a $300 price point.
This doesn't make sense. You can test two products that are in completely different price ranges on the same machinery, but that doesn't mean that the cheaper product is tested with the same preconceived notions as the more expensive one.
fathom reply :
QuoteQuoteput a $79 price tag on the glx and a $350 price tag on the vendetta.
see how that review works out.
nothing like deliberately missing the point or tossing red herring into chowder. While you're swapping the price tags, why don't you swap the components while you're at it? See how that goes.
actually, it is the only point.
one man's trash is always another man's treasure...as i wouldn't put much faith in one man's erstwhile assessment of a subjective value, neither would i place much faith in another man's interpretation of that value...as the o.p. suggests.
as far as the original vendetta/cumulus...personally, i don't see either in my future.
Simp reply :
Went into a local tackle shop today with every intention of walking out with a Vendetta spinning rod for my dad. The poor guys been using a 20$ dicks special for his shacky heads! Anyway I went over to the rods and held the Vendetta in my hand but noticed they had some mojo's on sale for 75$. So I picked it up and compared the two. Both were 7ft meduim fast action. I was surprised that the so called top heavy mojo was flat out lighter and alot better balanced then the vendetta. So I walked out with a Mojo and plan to give it to him as a early fathers day gift tomorrow at KY lake.
Pantera61 reply :
QuoteQuoteQuoteput a $79 price tag on the glx and a $350 price tag on the vendetta.
see how that review works out.
nothing like deliberately missing the point or tossing red herring into chowder. While you're swapping the price tags, why don't you swap the components while you're at it? See how that goes.
actually, it is the only point.
one man's trash is always another man's treasure...as i wouldn't put much faith in one man's erstwhile assessment of a subjective value, neither would i place much faith in another man's interpretation of that value...as the o.p. suggests.
as far as the original vendetta/cumulus...personally, i don't see either in my future.
As previously mentioned, the Vendetta was tested against the baseline GLX @ $300.00 + and held it's own. A machine is not subjective, it is objective.
Captain Obvious reply :
You know it's funny but I've yet to hear someone say that they Love there Cumulus. I heard plenty from the Vendetta guys about how much they like it but nothing from those guys who own the Cumulus.
Mike Z reply :
QuoteWent into a local tackle shop today with every intention of walking out with a Vendetta spinning rod for my dad. The poor guys been using a 20$ dicks special for his shacky heads! Anyway I went over to the rods and held the Vendetta in my hand but noticed they had some mojo's on sale for 75$. So I picked it up and compared the two. Both were 7ft meduim fast action. I was surprised that the so called top heavy mojo was flat out lighter and alot better balanced then the vendetta. So I walked out with a Mojo and plan to give it to him as a early fathers day gift tomorrow at KY lake.
I've been to a few local stores that sell the Vendetta. IMHO they feel kinda cheap compared to the other rods I was comparing at the time. -Powell, Carrot Stix, Mojo Bass, and even the Gander Mountain Ti GSX. Not really sure why the impression. Just how I felt.
In fact the GM Ti GSX felt REALLY good but they only come in Med or Med Heavy and I was looking for heavy.
fathom reply :
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteput a $79 price tag on the glx and a $350 price tag on the vendetta.
see how that review works out.
nothing like deliberately missing the point or tossing red herring into chowder. While you're swapping the price tags, why don't you swap the components while you're at it? See how that goes.
actually, it is the only point.
one man's trash is always another man's treasure...as i wouldn't put much faith in one man's erstwhile assessment of a subjective value, neither would i place much faith in another man's interpretation of that value...as the o.p. suggests.
as far as the original vendetta/cumulus...personally, i don't see either in my future.
As previously mentioned, the Vendetta was tested against the baseline GLX @ $300.00 + and held it's own. A machine is not subjective, it is objective.
any mh should be able to somewhat recreate the deflection of any baseline mh on a rodwrack machine....the rodwrack measures the characteristics (action, power) of a blank, not the quality of a blank.
the 6 scoring categories at the end of the review call for a value to be given and added to a final score...the values given here are not machine responses, they are human responses.
i.e., subjective value.
Dan: reply :
You guys who are using the TT test as proof that the Vendetta is equal to the GLX need to read what that test actually measures. As fathom pointed out the RoD Wrack test measures the deflection of the rod. That tells you the properties of the power and action. I suspect the main difference in those rods will be fit and finish and most importantly SENSITIVITY. All that RoD deflection test shows is that they bend the same way.
Grey Wolf reply :
Vendetta vs. cumulus , are you serious ?
b.Lee reply :
LOL and the battle continues
Pantera61 reply :
QuoteVendetta vs. cumulus , are you serious ?
Yeah, it's almost unbelievable people are willing to defend Shimano at 3X the price!
steezy reply :
QuoteQuoteVendetta vs. cumulus , are you serious ?Yeah, it's almost unbelievable people are willing to defend Shimano at 3X the price!
Pantera61, its not the price that people are defending, its the rod.
It's almost unbelievable, that you think that is unbelievable.
CWilliams reply :
QuoteYou know it's funny but I've yet to hear someone say that they Love there Cumulus. I heard plenty from the Vendetta guys about how much they like it but nothing from those guys who own the Cumulus.
Not much point when peoples minds are already made up.
I fish with a guy that has two Vendetta rods. They are not even close to the same class as the Cumulus.
This is just a chance for people to justify their purchase of a Vendetta rod.
Pantera61 reply :
QuoteQuoteYou know it's funny but I've yet to hear someone say that they Love there Cumulus. I heard plenty from the Vendetta guys about how much they like it but nothing from those guys who own the Cumulus.Not much point when peoples minds are already made up.
I fish with a guy that has two Vendetta rods. They are not even close to the same class as the Cumulus.
This is just a chance for people to justify their purchase of a Vendetta rod.
Actually, it's the opposite. It's the losing battle of someone trying to justify paying 3X more for a rod that's not 3X the rod.
CWilliams reply :
QuoteQuoteQuoteYou know it's funny but I've yet to hear someone say that they Love there Cumulus. I heard plenty from the Vendetta guys about how much they like it but nothing from those guys who own the Cumulus.Not much point when peoples minds are already made up.
I fish with a guy that has two Vendetta rods. They are not even close to the same class as the Cumulus.
This is just a chance for people to justify their purchase of a Vendetta rod.
Actually, it's the opposite. It's the losing battle of someone trying to justify paying 3X more for a rod that's not 3X the rod.
The thread was not started by someone owning a Cumulus.
I have no need to justify my purchase. Thats why you don't see me starting a thread about how awesome my Cumulus is.
It sounds to me like most people here do not even own Cumulus rods. They just realize how rediculous it is to claim the Vendetta is a better rod.
Pantera61 reply :
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteYou know it's funny but I've yet to hear someone say that they Love there Cumulus. I heard plenty from the Vendetta guys about how much they like it but nothing from those guys who own the Cumulus.Not much point when peoples minds are already made up.
I fish with a guy that has two Vendetta rods. They are not even close to the same class as the Cumulus.
This is just a chance for people to justify their purchase of a Vendetta rod.
Actually, it's the opposite. It's the losing battle of someone trying to justify paying 3X more for a rod that's not 3X the rod.
The thread was not started by someone owning a Cumulus.
I have no need to justify my purpose. Thats why you don't see me starting a thread about how awesome my Cumulus is.
It sounds to me like most people here do not even own Cumulus rods. They just realize how rediculous it is to claim the Vendetta is a better rod.
1. No one is claiming the Vendetta is a better rod, your insecurity goggles are reading that.
2. This is the typical thread about why folks won't pay that much for a rod and how can anybody else spend that much either. Exceptin' of course when the name on the rod is Shimano.
3. Why don't you tell me exactly what it is that makes the Cumulus a better rod? Is it the guides? Is it the reel seat? Is it the thread? Maybe you will tell me the Cumulus is 3X more sensitive than the comparable Vendetta.
It's checkmate, friend. Take it like a big boy.
CWilliams reply :
I see no need to point out the obvious benefits of a Cumulus over any IM6 rod. You have made up your mind.
I have seen my friends Vendetta slowly start to fall apart and it has not even been a full fishing season yet. The amazing shiny red butt cap is chipped and has paint wearing. The finish on the exposed split grip part of the blank is already worn off in spots.
Why spend that much on a Vendetta when you can have this: http://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10151_-1_10001_44306____SearchResults.
Jake. reply :
QuoteActually, it's the opposite. It's the losing battle of someone trying to justify paying 3X more for a rod that's not 3X the rod.
I don't believe anyone has stated that the Cumulus is 3 times better than the Vendetta. There is a point of diminishing return in every line of products. Some believe it is worth it to pay for the increased performance that comes from a high-end product, even if it doesn't provide the same amount of performance per dollar as a value product. Others don't think it is. This is how arguments like this one begin. Is the Vendetta a better value than the Cumulus? Probably. But is the Cumulus is a superior rod overall (to an unbiased individual)? Obviously.
northern basser reply :
one man's trash is another man's treasure
> 
Pantera61 reply :
QuoteQuoteActually, it's the opposite. It's the losing battle of someone trying to justify paying 3X more for a rod that's not 3X the rod.I don't believe anyone has stated that the Cumulus is 3 times better than the Vendetta. There is a point of diminishing return in every line of products. Some believe it is worth it to pay for the increased performance that comes from a high-end product, even if it doesn't provide the same amount of performance per dollar as a value product. Others don't think it is. This is how arguments like this one begin. Is the Vendetta a better value than the Cumulus? Probably. But is the Cumulus is a superior rod overall (to an unbiased individual)? Obviously.
It boils down to certain groups of people having their single-mindedness challenged.
Bronzefly reply :
QuoteIt boils down to certain groups of people having their single-mindedness challenged.
"Unapologetically Abu!"
This reminds me of the old saying about "the pot calling the kettle black" ;D
I've fished a vendetta rod and it's a fine stick at its price point, but make no mistake, it's not in the same league as the Cumulus - nor should it be!
Pantera61 reply :
QuoteQuoteIt boils down to certain groups of people having their single-mindedness challenged.
"Unapologetically Abu!"
This reminds me of the old saying about "the pot calling the kettle black" ;D
I've fished a vendetta rod and it's a fine stick at its price point, but make no mistake, it's not in the same league as the Cumulus - nor should it be!
Hey, Bronze, the tagline is more about not taking any second-class citizen guff after Daiwa/Shimano, not about only using Abu. As mentioned previously, I don't have any anti-Daiwa, Falcon, Megabass or Evergreen prejudice.
Give the people what they want, it's just going to be a whole new world when the model AFTER the Veritas are released.
Bronzefly reply :
QuoteHey, Bronze, the tagline is more about not taking any second-class citizen guff after Daiwa/Shimano, not about only using Abu. As mentioned previously, I don't have any anti-Daiwa, Falcon, Megabass or Evergreen prejudice.
You shouldn't have to take any second-class citizen stuff about using Abu products - they make some fine rods and reels, no doubt - and I expect the Veritas to be another fine product from Abu. My "all in good fun" comment was directed more toward the apparent dichotomy between your obvious affinity toward Abu and prejudice toward Shimano in light of your "single-mindedness" comment. Carry on... this thread is entertaining 8-)
steezy reply :
Dude, if you dont think the Cumulus is worth paying 3x the cost of a Vendetta then dont buy a Cumulus but I think you will find it impossible to get any knowledgeable fishermen to believe you.
Remember, there is a reason the Vendette costs $89 and the Cumulus is $349. The Cumulus blank costs more to produce than the entire Vendette rod. Im not knocking the Vendetta rod but that the way it is.
You said you have a Steez compilex rod so Im having a hard time understanding why anyone that buys a $500 Steez rod is buying and using a $89 Vendetta rod. Its gotta feel strange when you switch form the Steez to the Vendetta. Be like going from a BMW to a Kia.
Dan: reply :
The Cumulus does not have to be 3x as sensitive to cost 3x as much. People pay high dollar for premium products all the time, and not just in the fishing industry. The relationship between overall quality and price is not linear.
The Vendetta might be a better value but no one is debating that. The point is that the rod is not as good as a rod at the premium price point (whether it be a Shimano or a Loomis)
Pantera61 reply :
QuoteDude, if you dont think the Cumulus is worth paying 3x the cost of a Vendetta then dont buy a Cumulus but I think you will find it impossible to get any knowledgeable fishermen to believe you.Remember, there is a reason the Vendette costs $89 and the Cumulus is $349. The Cumulus blank costs more to produce than the entire Vendette rod. Im not knocking the Vendetta rod but that the way it is.
You said you have a Steez compilex rod so Im having a hard time understanding why anyone that buys a $500 Steez rod is buying and using a $89 Vendetta rod. Its gotta feel strange when you switch form the Steez to the Vendetta. Be like going from a BMW to a Kia.
I got rid of the Steez more than a year ago because it wasn't sensitive enough. I purchased an Evergreen rod which was in the same price range and significantly more sensitive. In November of 09, I bought my first Vendetta and found it to be more sensitive than the Daiwa Zillion and the Steez.
Was it a bum Steez? Who knows. Do I have super Vendetta? Who knows. I do know this, I found the Vendetta to be equivalent in performance to rods costing twice and three times as much.
I feel confident with the Vendetta series of rods and I look forward to purchasing a few new Veritas rods.
Glenn reply :
Ok, I've had about enough of this! Calling people insecure and close-minded over fishing tackle? Really? Is that what fishing is now?
You guys want to debate, knock yourself out. But I will NOT tolerate name-calling and disrespectful comments! >
Are we clear on this?
skunked_again reply :
this thread is equal to eating a box of stale crackerjacks hoping for some great prize at the end.
wagn reply :
UGLY STICK 4EVER. WOOT!!!
Really, just fish what you like.
Incheon Basser reply :
QuoteDude, if you dont think the Cumulus is worth paying 3x the cost of a Vendetta then dont buy a Cumulus but I think you will find it impossible to get any knowledgeable fishermen to believe you.Remember, there is a reason the Vendette costs $89 and the Cumulus is $349. The Cumulus blank costs more to produce than the entire Vendette rod. Im not knocking the Vendetta rod but that the way it is.
You said you have a Steez compilex rod so Im having a hard time understanding why anyone that buys a $500 Steez rod is buying and using a $89 Vendetta rod. Its gotta feel strange when you switch form the Steez to the Vendetta. Be like going from a BMW to a Kia.
I have a friend who owns a rod manufactering company in Korea. They spin their own blanks and such
he said that no matter how expensive the rod is the blank it's self when it's first made costs no more than 15$ for even the extremely top end rods like the 1,000 evergreen the rest of the cost is componets and then from there they like to make at least 100% profit but try fo 200% if they can
Dan: reply :
$15? That's a little unbelievable for me.
ToledoEF reply :
Quote$15? That's a little unbelievable for me.
This doesnt shock me at all, im suprised its not less. You think thats bad you would crap yourself if you saw the markup on electronis and thier accesories.
s13john reply :
yah its true markup is ridiculous on everything. i imagine once you get the cost of the machine done with materials are probably so cheep as a bulk buy. but as long as your having a good time using your gear thats all that counts.
slonezp reply :
6 pages arguing about fishing rods. : I got ya'll beat. Picked up a St. Croix Mojo Bass 7'MH fo $25 at Cabelas bargain cave. Had a broken tip. Bought a replacement and now I have a 6'8" rod for under 30 bucks and it's not worth the breath to argue about ;D
Gone_Phishin reply :
Warren says:
rayrock99 reply :
QuoteYou know it's funny but I've yet to hear someone say that they Love there Cumulus. I heard plenty from the Vendetta guys about how much they like it but nothing from those guys who own the Cumulus.
I LOVE MY CUMULUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
b.Lee reply :
LOL the mark up on tires is just as ridiculous.
Pantera61 reply :
QuoteQuoteYou know it's funny but I've yet to hear someone say that they Love there Cumulus. I heard plenty from the Vendetta guys about how much they like it but nothing from those guys who own the Cumulus.I LOVE MY CUMULUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Well, that only took 6 pages :
Pantera61 reply :
QuoteOk, I've had about enough of this! Calling people insecure and close-minded over fishing tackle? Really? Is that what fishing is now?You guys want to debate, knock yourself out. But I will NOT tolerate name-calling and disrespectful comments! >
Are we clear on this?
As the author of both comments, I guess, I'd like to say this:
1. The "insecurity googles" was intended to be a joke. Along the lines of "Gee Pal, you must have had your beer googles on when you were talking to that one.". Perhaps this, : or another would have lightened it up a bit.
2. Single-minded and narrow-minded are two different things to me. Single-minded referring to "Don't you dare challenge the order. Shimano is superior in all aspects, in every attribute, with every item.". You know what, it ain't. Not by a long shot.
I'm not the first person to say it. Not on this thread, not on this forum. It's not heat they're responding to, it's the resistance.
That being said, it's you're playground and your rules. They will be followed.
Grey Wolf reply :
It's a war zone here !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
eyedabassman reply :
I don't care! I went out and bought the 6'6" MH Vendetta for my RC baitcaster! I have alot of good and not cheap rods ! I would put the Vendetta rods somewhere in the middle or a bit above other high end rods! But for me the Vendatta is a nice rod for the money. It will will be my grub and small plastic rod.
Six pages WOW, so I had to join in!
PS Not everyone can afford to buy high end rods ,and that the Vendetta's and other rods,that are in the middle of the pack are a good choice for people to pick from and still have good feel and end up with a good rod!
Diablos reply :
QuoteQuoteDude, if you dont think the Cumulus is worth paying 3x the cost of a Vendetta then dont buy a Cumulus but I think you will find it impossible to get any knowledgeable fishermen to believe you.Remember, there is a reason the Vendette costs $89 and the Cumulus is $349. The Cumulus blank costs more to produce than the entire Vendette rod. Im not knocking the Vendetta rod but that the way it is.
You said you have a Steez compilex rod so Im having a hard time understanding why anyone that buys a $500 Steez rod is buying and using a $89 Vendetta rod. Its gotta feel strange when you switch form the Steez to the Vendetta. Be like going from a BMW to a Kia.
I have a friend who owns a rod manufactering company in Korea. They spin their own blanks and such
he said that no matter how expensive the rod is the blank it's self when it's first made costs no more than 15$ for even the extremely top end rods like the 1,000 evergreen the rest of the cost is componets and then from there they like to make at least 100% profit but try fo 200% if they can
I am a rod builder for a living for a small manufacturer/saltwater retail store in the northeast. You guys would be amazed by the cost of some "high end" blanks from major manufacturers if you're on their top end programs.
I could build a SCV St Croix with Fuji titanium guides for under $200. Things that drive the costs up are Matagi seats which can run $30+ wholesale but a simple Fuji ESC seat runs only $3-$5.
That being said, why don't I build freshwater rods my self. Well, I have. But when you make rods 8-10 hours a day it's a job and not a hobby.
Pantera61 reply :
QuoteQuoteQuoteDude, if you dont think the Cumulus is worth paying 3x the cost of a Vendetta then dont buy a Cumulus but I think you will find it impossible to get any knowledgeable fishermen to believe you.Remember, there is a reason the Vendette costs $89 and the Cumulus is $349. The Cumulus blank costs more to produce than the entire Vendette rod. Im not knocking the Vendetta rod but that the way it is.
You said you have a Steez compilex rod so Im having a hard time understanding why anyone that buys a $500 Steez rod is buying and using a $89 Vendetta rod. Its gotta feel strange when you switch form the Steez to the Vendetta. Be like going from a BMW to a Kia.
I have a friend who owns a rod manufactering company in Korea. They spin their own blanks and such
he said that no matter how expensive the rod is the blank it's self when it's first made costs no more than 15$ for even the extremely top end rods like the 1,000 evergreen the rest of the cost is componets and then from there they like to make at least 100% profit but try fo 200% if they can
I am a rod builder for a living for a small manufacturer/saltwater retail store in the northeast. You guys would be amazed by the cost of some "high end" blanks from major manufacturers if you're on their top end programs.
I could build a SCV St Croix with Fuji titanium guides for under $200. Things that drive the costs up are Matagi seats which can run $30+ wholesale but a simple Fuji ESC seat runs only $3-$5.
That being said, why don't I build freshwater rods my self. Well, I have. But when you make rods 8-10 hours a day it's a job and not a hobby.
uh-oh, now it's really going to hit the fan ...
Dan: reply :
QuoteQuoteQuoteDude, if you dont think the Cumulus is worth paying 3x the cost of a Vendetta then dont buy a Cumulus but I think you will find it impossible to get any knowledgeable fishermen to believe you.Remember, there is a reason the Vendette costs $89 and the Cumulus is $349. The Cumulus blank costs more to produce than the entire Vendette rod. Im not knocking the Vendetta rod but that the way it is.
You said you have a Steez compilex rod so Im having a hard time understanding why anyone that buys a $500 Steez rod is buying and using a $89 Vendetta rod. Its gotta feel strange when you switch form the Steez to the Vendetta. Be like going from a BMW to a Kia.
I have a friend who owns a rod manufactering company in Korea. They spin their own blanks and such
he said that no matter how expensive the rod is the blank it's self when it's first made costs no more than 15$ for even the extremely top end rods like the 1,000 evergreen the rest of the cost is componets and then from there they like to make at least 100% profit but try fo 200% if they can
I am a rod builder for a living for a small manufacturer/saltwater retail store in the northeast. You guys would be amazed by the cost of some "high end" blanks from major manufacturers if you're on their top end programs.
I could build a SCV St Croix with Fuji titanium guides for under $200. Things that drive the costs up are Matagi seats which can run $30+ wholesale but a simple Fuji ESC seat runs only $3-$5.
That being said, why don't I build freshwater rods my self. Well, I have. But when you make rods 8-10 hours a day it's a job and not a hobby.
So how much does the SCV blank cost?
Diablos reply :
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteDude, if you dont think the Cumulus is worth paying 3x the cost of a Vendetta then dont buy a Cumulus but I think you will find it impossible to get any knowledgeable fishermen to believe you.Remember, there is a reason the Vendette costs $89 and the Cumulus is $349. The Cumulus blank costs more to produce than the entire Vendette rod. Im not knocking the Vendetta rod but that the way it is.
You said you have a Steez compilex rod so Im having a hard time understanding why anyone that buys a $500 Steez rod is buying and using a $89 Vendetta rod. Its gotta feel strange when you switch form the Steez to the Vendetta. Be like going from a BMW to a Kia.
I have a friend who owns a rod manufactering company in Korea. They spin their own blanks and such
he said that no matter how expensive the rod is the blank it's self when it's first made costs no more than 15$ for even the extremely top end rods like the 1,000 evergreen the rest of the cost is componets and then from there they like to make at least 100% profit but try fo 200% if they can
I am a rod builder for a living for a small manufacturer/saltwater retail store in the northeast. You guys would be amazed by the cost of some "high end" blanks from major manufacturers if you're on their top end programs.
I could build a SCV St Croix with Fuji titanium guides for under $200. Things that drive the costs up are Matagi seats which can run $30+ wholesale but a simple Fuji ESC seat runs only $3-$5.
That being said, why don't I build freshwater rods my self. Well, I have. But when you make rods 8-10 hours a day it's a job and not a hobby.
uh-oh, now it's really going to hit the fan ...
The point I was trying to make was after a certain price point high end rods become a profit machine for manufacturers.
If I broke down the Vendetta into pieces and used a Chinese blank such as a Rainshadow. A similar blank would cost about $5 in China. I'm pretty sure they use Pacific Bay guides which here in the states would cost $8-10 wholesale buying oem from PacBay. The EVA grips are are pennies and the Fuji seat maybe $2-3. Including the labor that rod would cost about $17-$19 to make.
Now if you have to box it ship to the US via sea shipment and Big Rock Sport's(Henry's which is a major wholesale distributor) buys it from Abu for a 25-30% markup($25) then Henry's wholesales it for $37-$42 depending on model: which is a fact. Then it goes to small tackle shop for $79.99. Big box stores buy direct from Abu allowing them to make more profit.
steezy reply :
QuoteI would put the Vendetta rods somewhere in the middle or a bit above other high end rods!
I don't think a $89 Vendettea can be considered a high end rod.
Diablos reply :
St. Croix 5C70HF-B blank = $195 retail
= $101~ distributor
= $78 oem wholesale
b.Lee reply :
That is some good insight, but it is how the market and profits work.
Slip Gun reply :
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteDude, if you dont think the Cumulus is worth paying 3x the cost of a Vendetta then dont buy a Cumulus but I think you will find it impossible to get any knowledgeable fishermen to believe you.Remember, there is a reason the Vendette costs $89 and the Cumulus is $349. The Cumulus blank costs more to produce than the entire Vendette rod. Im not knocking the Vendetta rod but that the way it is.
You said you have a Steez compilex rod so Im having a hard time understanding why anyone that buys a $500 Steez rod is buying and using a $89 Vendetta rod. Its gotta feel strange when you switch form the Steez to the Vendetta. Be like going from a BMW to a Kia.
I have a friend who owns a rod manufactering company in Korea. They spin their own blanks and such
he said that no matter how expensive the rod is the blank it's self when it's first made costs no more than 15$ for even the extremely top end rods like the 1,000 evergreen the rest of the cost is componets and then from there they like to make at least 100% profit but try fo 200% if they can
I am a rod builder for a living for a small manufacturer/saltwater retail store in the northeast. You guys would be amazed by the cost of some "high end" blanks from major manufacturers if you're on their top end programs.
I could build a SCV St Croix with Fuji titanium guides for under $200. Things that drive the costs up are Matagi seats which can run $30+ wholesale but a simple Fuji ESC seat runs only $3-$5.
That being said, why don't I build freshwater rods my self. Well, I have. But when you make rods 8-10 hours a day it's a job and not a hobby.
uh-oh, now it's really going to hit the fan ...
The point I was trying to make was after a certain price point high end rods become a profit machine for manufacturers.
If I broke down the Vendetta into pieces and used a Chinese blank such as a Rainshadow. A similar blank would cost about $5 in China. I'm pretty sure they use Pacific Bay guides which here in the states would cost $8-10 wholesale buying oem from PacBay. The EVA grips are are pennies and the Fuji seat maybe $2-3. Including the labor that rod would cost about $17-$19 to make.
Now if you have to box it ship to the US via sea shipment and Big Rock Sport's(Henry's which is a major wholesale distributor) buys it from Abu for a 25-30% markup($25) then Henry's wholesales it for $37-$42 depending on model: which is a fact. Then it goes to small tackle shop for $79.99. Big box stores buy direct from Abu allowing them to make more profit.
What is being forgotten here is the difference between a high end rod and a low end rod is partly parts - partly they money poured into design. For instance a Gloomis GLX - imagine how many people have spent how many hours to design the blank and decide where exactly to mount all the parts. Rods that expensive do not sell in huge quantity so economies of scale does not help as much as it could. Now think about advertising, warranty, ect.
When you buy something you are paying for much more then the components to build it.
If you were paying just for the components to make things you would get every piece of software from the store for under 3 bucks. :
Edit : Also don't forget you probably need more expensive machines for the higher quality blanks to have the quality control.
Diablos reply :
Most of the machines are the same in turning the blanks. It's the material and the mandrels that change.
Not to downplay man-hours in the design of blanks, but guide placement is a fairly simple job. If you notice most rod companies use the same guide placement in the top 50% of their rods. On their lower end rods to save money they will skip a guide or two altogether.
As for warranties, companies will not do anything to lose money. The high end rods are marked up to a point that they can offer a white glove warranty and still make money if you break it once. I want to see how Evergreen reacts when you call them for your third or fourth breakage. They might be willing to lose a customer at that point.
Pantera61 reply :
QuoteMost of the machines are the same in turning the blanks. It's the material and the mandrels that change.Not to downplay man-hours in the design of blanks, but guide placement is a fairly simple job. If you notice most rod companies use the same guide placement in the top 50% of their rods. On their lower end rods to save money they will skip a guide or two altogether.
As for warranties, companies will not do anything to lose money. The high end rods are marked up to a point that they can offer a white glove warranty and still make money if you break it once. I want to see how Evergreen reacts when you call them for your third or fourth breakage. They might be willing to lose a customer at that point.
In the States, they ain't gonna lose any sleep. No warranty on Evergreen unless you bought from one company through a very small window of time.
Dan: reply :
QuoteSt. Croix 5C70HF-B blank = $195 retail= $101~ distributor
= $78 oem wholesale
That's a heck of a lot more than $15!
Diablos reply :
QuoteQuoteSt. Croix 5C70HF-B blank = $195 retail= $101~ distributor
= $78 oem wholesale
That's a heck of a lot more than $15!
haha
$78 is the bottom price that St Croix will sell that blank to any company on their top buying program. I think you have to spend 40K a year to get that price.
I have no clue what it costs St Croix to actually make that blank but i would guess it's a little more than any top end Diawa or Shimano blank since it's 100% American.
0119 reply :
If the price of a GLX includes the mental and physical man hours of development, they have recouped their $ hundreds of times over. Considering how many years that model has been out. With trinkle down technology what shimano is known for the GLX should be the price of a gl2.
Incheon Basser reply :
QuoteSt. Croix 5C70HF-B blank = $195 retail= $101~ distributor
= $78 oem wholesale
oem manufacturing cost 15$
the look on the anglers face who paid 600$ for a 15$ blank pricless
Incheon Basser reply :
QuoteQuoteSt. Croix 5C70HF-B blank = $195 retail= $101~ distributor
= $78 oem wholesale
That's a heck of a lot more than $15!
why are you so offended by the fact blanks cost little to make? the whole point of production is to lower the cost.
Think about it Dobyns and many other companies have a replacement rod fee. of 60... I would bet my last dollar that's the cost they are buying those rods for from the OEM. So how much does a Champion Cost?
The people who sell the graphite to the OEM gotta make a 200% profit then the guys that spin the blanks gotta make a 200 % profit then they guys who build the rod gotta make a 200% profit then the guy who sells the rod has to make a 200% profit then the retailer and so on until it leaves the store and then it goes backwards
Dan: reply :
I just don't believe that a high end blank costs that little to make.
Incheon Basser reply :
QuoteI just don't believe that a high end blank costs that little to make.
It's just graphite not gold friend the stuff is cheap
I just found a site that says they sell a ton of Graphite for $2,500 and it costs them 15$ per ton in expenses now that's just the mark up on the commodity it's self
skunked_again reply :
QuoteQuoteI just don't believe that a high end blank costs that little to make.It's just graphite not gold friend the stuff is cheap
id love for one poster to be able to confirm that price.
Incheon Basser reply :
QuoteQuoteQuoteI just don't believe that a high end blank costs that little to make.It's just graphite not gold friend the stuff is cheap
id love for one poster to be able to confirm that price.
So your calling me a liar then. would you like to see a confidential Invoice from a manufacture in order to belive it? don't think anyone could come up with that. think about it.
A 600$ rod has a 15$ blank
well a 100$ rod probably has a $2.50 blank so your 600$ is still 6x the cost of a 100$ rod
Believe it or not it's true
L a r r y reply :
This post is quite interesting. Does it take a TOP of the line rod to catch fish? No it doesn't. Does a TOP end rod feel better in the users hand, YES (to some extent) What we all want is to get on the water, wet the line and try our best to figure out what it takes to get these fish to bite. What one holds in their hand is not important. I've said it before, you can take a broom stick, a shoe lace and a paper clip and with the right presentation, you can catch fish. Hell look at the post PAUL made about catching a fish with a piece of a shoestring and he hauled in a nice size bass. Now take it, that was just a reference, that it is not all about the equipment and what it costs.
The post made earlier from the individual who makes rods, I know he doesn't want to reveal what it costs him to build rods, because it would cut into his liveliehood, but the markup on ALL products produced is astronomical. AG was able to produce a rod with decent quality and feels pretty good in some peoples hands. Is it a $1000 rod NO, it is a moderately priced rod that has gotten the attention of the industry.
Dan: reply :
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteI just don't believe that a high end blank costs that little to make.It's just graphite not gold friend the stuff is cheap
id love for one poster to be able to confirm that price.
So your calling me a liar then. would you like to see a confidential Invoice from a manufacture in order to belive it? don't think anyone could come up with that. think about it.
A 600$ rod has a 15$ blank
well a 100$ rod probably has a $2.50 blank so your 600$ is still 6x the cost of a 100$ rod
Believe it or not it's true
I don't think you are a liar. I just think you are mistaken.
skunked_again reply :
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteI just don't believe that a high end blank costs that little to make.It's just graphite not gold friend the stuff is cheap
id love for one poster to be able to confirm that price.
So your calling me a liar then. would you like to see a confidential Invoice from a manufacture in order to belive it? don't think anyone could come up with that. think about it.
A 600$ rod has a 15$ blank
well a 100$ rod probably has a $2.50 blank so your 600$ is still 6x the cost of a 100$ rod
Believe it or not it's true
I don't think you are a liar. I just think you are mistaken.
x2
you would think by now i would be smart enough to stay out of these threads.
Incheon Basser reply :
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteI just don't believe that a high end blank costs that little to make.It's just graphite not gold friend the stuff is cheap
id love for one poster to be able to confirm that price.
So your calling me a liar then. would you like to see a confidential Invoice from a manufacture in order to belive it? don't think anyone could come up with that. think about it.
A 600$ rod has a 15$ blank
well a 100$ rod probably has a $2.50 blank so your 600$ is still 6x the cost of a 100$ rod
Believe it or not it's true
I don't think you are a liar. I just think you are mistaken.
x2
you would think by now i would be smart enough to stay out of these threads.
well thanks for not calling me a liar .... but I'm not mistaken either. take it or leave it that's up to you
Dan: reply :
Yeah, I'm leaving it. Nothing against you, I just don't think that's accurate. If I find out I'm wrong, I'll send you $15 to buy yourself a new blank. ;D
Captain Obvious reply :
WOW!!!!
This is almost better than Newanglers post about not having luck with RT baits. ;D
When I stared this thread I really was only doing it because I thought it kinda funny that the vendetta had matched a higher end rod in a review.
I'm just not so sure if I'm happy being the guy who fired the first shot in this war.
b.Lee reply :
Yeah do we even remember what the argument was about. I think we went on enough tangents in this thread.
South FLA reply :
Have any of you guys checked out the Ugly Stick Agility, that rod can out catch most if not all anglers on this board in the right persons hands, Skeet, Ike, Clunn, etc...
To each his own, want to by a $1000 Megabass or a $80 Vendetta then go ahead, but too many other factors influence what makes a rod better than another, from line to application to angler holding it.
I feel a Good Night Irene coming ;D
LilJakeC1 reply :
QuoteWOW!!!!This is almost better than Newanglers post about not having luck with RT baits. ;D
When I stared this thread I really was only doing it because I thought it kinda funny that the vendetta had matched a higher end rod in a review.
I'm just not so sure if I'm happy being the guy who fired the first shot in this war.
Well your sig. of "you want the truth, you can't handle the truth" seems to be in effect in this thread. what a coincidence
Captain Obvious reply :
QuoteYeah do we even remember what the argument was about. I think we went on enough tangents in this thread.
That's just it there never was an argument. ;D I was only reporting what I saw on TT.com
QuoteI feel a Good Night Irene coming
I hope not, I mean I know that there has been some fighting. : But over all I found this thread very educational and entertaining. I'd hate to have it end on a bad note :'(
0119 reply :
For what its worth Capt. I think you are right asuming they evaluated both rods the same. Especially since the evaluations were both entitled "The One Series" a continuing saga searching for 'the one'.
Dan: reply :
QuoteFor what its worth Capt. I think you are right asuming they evaluated both rods the same. Especially since the evaluations were both entitled "The One Series" a continuing saga searching for 'the one'.
If you asked the TT guys, I think they would tell you that the Vendetta is not in the same league as the Cumulus.
b.Lee reply :
QuoteQuoteFor what its worth Capt. I think you are right asuming they evaluated both rods the same. Especially since the evaluations were both entitled "The One Series" a continuing saga searching for 'the one'.If you asked the TT guys, I think they would tell you that the Vendetta is not in the same league as the Cumulus.
I think that is very true Dan, why not just ask them.
0119 reply :
Why? Their opinion means as little or as much as anyone here. But their forums do keep a much more civilized demeanor.....
Dan: reply :
QuoteWhy? Their opinion means as little or as much as anyone here. But their forums do keep a much more civilized demeanor.....
To determine if "they evaluated both rods the same"
Captain Obvious reply :
QuoteI think that is very true Dan, why not just ask them.
One problem guys, the reviews where done by different guys.
Cal did the Cumulus
JIP did the vendetta
Pantera61 reply :
Vendetta fish, this morning, 21", 5 lb 3 oz LMB, 6'3" Vendetta, Revo Elite, Daiwa 16lb Floater line.
steezy reply :
That fish looks a bit small for 5#, it probably would have been larger if caught on a Cumulus rod. 8-)
rayrock99 reply :
Cumulus fish 6lb 1oz. 6'5 Cumulus/paired with Shimano Core50MG 8lb InvisX flouro. This combo weighs just 8.275 ounces!!!!
War Party reply :
For such a low price, the Vendetta is a really nice rod. IMO, a better rod than Mojo. For those of us with less disposable income or multiple outdoor hobbies to support, its nice to be able to afford such nice gear.
christine Cellino reply :
QuoteQuoteWhat I find that is funny is that what started out as Vendetta vs. Cumulus has turned in to Vendetta vs. Steez,GLX, and CumulusAlso I don't know why guys with the expensive stuff have attacked this thread like this.
Might just be me but it seems they are trying to defend spending so much on rods when they know they could have got the same product for hundreds cheaper
Quick background, if I may. I've been using JDM rods for probably 7 years now, Megabass, Evergreen and Daiwa (Japan Versions). Last year, I got tired of worrying about stuff walking away during tournaments, stuff being kicked overboard or broken so I picked up the Vendetta 6'9" casting model. I liked it so much I picked up the 6'3" caster, than the 7' med moderate, then the 6'9" spinning and the 7'6" heavy flippin.
For about $350 I have a great set of rods that I can take anywhere I use any way I see fit without a second thought.
I wouldn't use them in tournaments if they were garbage, that's insanity. The gap between great equipment and excellent is narrowing.
I'd enjoy seeing some pics of those rods; I've been thinking of buying my husband a 'special' rod for his birthday, and I've always admired those Japanese fishing rods.
b.Lee reply :
Man i just got my 7' MH VTS70-5 Spinning Rod, it is a lot more rod than I was looking for. Especially for my Stradic CI4.... I think I am just going to buckle down and get a Loomis or Shimano
Dockhead reply :
QuoteI'd enjoy seeing some pics of those rods; I've been thinking of buying my husband a 'special' rod for his birthday, and I've always admired those Japanese fishing rods.
Do you have a sister??!!
Incheon Basser reply :
well the ugly stick tiger is better than them both take a look at this
Ugly Stik Tiger, the original offshore big cat!
Date: 1/20/02
Tackle type: Rod
Manufacturer: Shakespeare
Reviewer: Zander
Total Score: 8.58
Introduction: The one and only Ugly Stik by Shakespeare is still the top selling rod series of all time. We take a look at this veteran to see just what makes this rod so popular.
;D ;D ;D
Captain Obvious reply :
QuoteUgly Stik Tiger, the original offshore big cat!
Sorry you just brought a deep sea fishing rod to a bass fishing rod war. And of course ugly stick would be rated that high. Its the best in the world for that kind of fishing. But lets see you fish a t-rig on it. The Vendetta and Cumulus are both rods for bass fishing.
Capt.O
bweave09 reply :
QuoteQuoteUgly Stik Tiger, the original offshore big cat!Sorry you just brought a deep sea fishing rod to a bass fishing rod war. And of course ugly stick would be rated that high. Its the best in the world for that kind of fishing. But lets see you fish a t-rig on it. The Vendetta and Cumulus are both rods for bass fishing.
Capt.O
That was a joke
rubba bubba reply :
QuoteQuoteQuoteUgly Stik Tiger, the original offshore big cat!Sorry you just brought a deep sea fishing rod to a bass fishing rod war. And of course ugly stick would be rated that high. Its the best in the world for that kind of fishing. But lets see you fish a t-rig on it. The Vendetta and Cumulus are both rods for bass fishing.
Capt.O
That was a joke
It proved to be too obvious for the Captain himself.
trevor reply :
QuoteYep, and I rate the Wright & McGill Tessera rods as slightly better than the Loomis GLX.Equipment reviews...what a racket.
Gone_Phishin reply :
Is anyone using the 7'1" Cumulus for jigs?
SimonDM17 reply :
You guys (Capt. O) need to re-read the TT reviews. IMHO, the Cumulus shouldn't be in their contest--it's unfair to put a high-end stick into a general-purpose competition. They should have a price cap on it.
Anyway, the Cumulus won out on:
Weight
Component quality
Balancing torque
Sensitivity
And the Vendetta won out on:
Value for the money
Design (which is even more inherently subjective than sensitivity)
Further, and please correct me if I'm wrong, the Vendetta is publicized as using 30-ton graphite. Isn't that of good, but not great, quality?
There's also the warranty (2-year, $10+S&H versus lifetime over-the-counter).
In terms of value for money, the Vendetta is obviously superior. In terms of absolute performance, the Cumulus is equally obviously superior.
Captain Obvious reply :
The only thing I have gotten is how the Cumulus is sooo much better then the vendetta.
What I want to know is that if it is such a "Great Rod" Then it must be the worst one at its price point. Other $300 rods are rated much higher than it like the GLX or an Avid, which isn't even a $300 rod.
All I every said is that if I'm going out and spending that much on a rod I'd expect it to be rated much higher.
And Yes I should have know it was a joke ;D
Quoteit's unfair to put a high-end stick into a general-purpose competition.
This is funny. We are now making excuses for the "top of the line" rod.
Dan: reply :
Seriously? This thread hasn't died yet?
CWilliams reply :
QuoteWhat I want to know is that if it is such a "Great Rod" Then it must be the worst one at its price point. Other $300 rods are rated much higher than it like the GLX or an Avid, which isn't even a $300 rod.
What do you want to know? Was there supposed to be a question?
I do not understand why you are trying so hard to make the Cumulus look bad. Why does it bother you so much?
Marc David reply :
QuoteSeriously? This thread hasn't died yet?
I'm surprised as well. I don't see the purpose of it continuing at this point.
SoFlaBassAddict reply :
QuoteSeriously? This thread hasn't died yet?
First thing I thought when I saw it at the top of the list...
skunked_again reply :
QuoteSeriously? This thread hasn't died yet?
Roger that......
Captain Obvious reply :
I think this thread should die. It was fun at first but now its just repeated opinions.
Clearly there is much to be said on both sides and it has been said.
Personal I wish a moderator would shut it down for good.
Tight lines to everyone no matter how big or small the price tag is on your tackle.
Capt.O
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