Does Flourocarbon Matter As Much As Companies Say It Does 2024
stephens30 reply :
I've fished many different types of lines from fluorocarbon to braid and all in between. But mostly fish with a co polymer, mostly because it is cheaper. Does the fluorocarbon really make that much of a difference in the amount of fish you catch? Leave your opinions below! Thanks,
Darren. reply :
First, welcome to the forum!
Second. You'll find some here that will say no, it doesn't matter as much. Others will say yes.
My experience leans toward the "no" as well. But I don't fish crystal clear waters where it may make a difference.
WRB reply :
In clear water when bass are line wary FC can make a difference. When bass are not line shy, FC doesn't make a difference, at night for example no need to use FC line. Some anglers believe the slight difference in stretch, less buoyant and less drag, FC helps under all conditions. The simple fact that FC has less knot strength than mono or copolymer line is a big factor with me. I use FC for jigs and worms during the day, I fish gin clear deep structure lakes.
Tom
Jeff H reply :
I've done my own testing with it and I don't need it, for anything at any time!
Catch and Grease reply :
I've built a lot of confidence in fishing braid with a FC leader in any water clarity now... But I'm trying to get away from this and start fishing straight braid in non-clear situations...
doyle8218 reply :
On 7/21/2014 at 5:35 AM, Jeff H said:I've done my own testing with it and I don't need it, for anything at any time!
X2
QUAKEnSHAKE reply :
On 7/21/2014 at 4:11 AM, stephens30 said:I've fished many different types of lines from fluorocarbon to braid and all in between. But mostly fish with a co polymer, mostly because it is cheaper. Does the fluorocarbon really make that much of a difference in the amount of fish you catch? Leave your opinions below! Thanks,
One aspect I did find that lost me fish is at a fair distance the stretch causes poor hooksets compared with the same rods with braid. I have not noticed an increase in bites either in the clear lakes I fish.
K_Mac reply :
I was always in the 'don't need it' crowd until this year. After several months of using it I also think it makes a difference in clear water. I think it makes a real difference on contact baits as well. It does transmit information better than copoly or mono IMO. I rarely use braid and have no love for its lack of feel on anything but a tight line. Do I need it? No. I do prefer it though.
gulfcaptain reply :
Have a differnt angle for the use of FC. Fishing offshore found fishing a short leader of FC helped with abbrasion from fishes teeth, mainly smaller bluefin and Dorado (Mahi Mahi). Hook up to land ratio on the later was about 50% on mono, but the use of FC it jumped up to around 80%. The FC just held up better with the abrasion. In the bass fishing world, use it on my worm/jig fishing or crankbait, but always in topshot's since I fish with braid on all my reels, and topwater switch to mono. Does it help me get more bites, well not sure but it's just what I prefer to fish, but it does let me fish a bit heavier with FC in clearer water then I would be able to with mono.
thehooligan reply :
I've always done well with braid & copoly leaders.
For the clear water quarries I fish the green mist fluorclear has always worked really well for me and its a lot cheaper then a quality flouro....
Tywithay reply :
Being "invisible" has never really shown a huge improvement over clear mono, as far I've seen. The biggest advantages to fluorocarbon are the sensitivity and abrasion resistance. A high quality fluorocarbon is unmatched in those two areas.
Keywords: high quality fluorocarbon; the cheap stuff offers little to no advantage.
Cgrinder reply :
I like fluorocarbon in fast water and wind.
shanksmare reply :
I recall a study done by Glenn Lau (I think) on the visiability of various lines. The braid was actually the least visible in the pictures. The mono and especially the flourocarbon lit up like a light bulb in clear water sunny conditions.
I never noticed any difference bertween mono and flourcarbon other than the price and the fact that flouro is less managable when it gets colder.
IAY reply :
I feel like fluorocarbon is more sensitive and sinks better than the other lines. So up to you on how much you value that.
nepabassfishing reply :
I fish a lake where the water clarity is super high (you can see as far down as 8' - 10') and FC makes a huge difference. I've been fishing it for a few years now and have seen an improvement right after I made the switch. The only thing I don't use FC is for my topwater set-ups and for fishing in heavy structure. I agree with the posts that if you are fishing murky or stained waters, FC probably is not that big of a factor
Smokinal reply :
I use it on every one of my setups...as a leader. I can't stand line memory and fluoro has a ton of it. I use braid on everything but I fish mostly rocky bottomed lakes and braid has zero abrasion resistance to rock. So, I use a leader of fluoro and that stops my break-offs.
OkobojiEagle reply :
Smaller diameter line makes a bigger difference...
oe
FishTank reply :
I love FC. It last longer, it casts longer (but only a little) and I do catch more fish with it. With that said there are certain conditions where FC is not the best choice. For example, heavy moss, for this braid is the best option. I do like hybrid lines as well, like Yo Zuri hybrid ultra soft.
BrianinMD reply :
I have switched all of my non-topwater rods to flouro, the biggest thing to me was the slack line bites. The density of the line transmits the bites better then other lines, and I fish a lot of baits which have a pause in the retrieve. Before I did this I had several trips where my boater (using flouro) would be beating with several fish to each of mine. I would also go to move the bait sometimes and something would have it. by the time I got a hookset in the fish was gone. Since I have switched I can keep up with my boater and have greatly reduced the lost fish due to not feeling the pickup.
bradc36 reply :
Fish Lake Erie and the Niagara River all the time (pretty clear water) and have noticed little to no advantage of having FC instead of braid. There are a few instances that I will use it (crankbaits, jerkbaits, dropshot), or use braid with a FC leader. I don't like having FC on my reels because when I get to local lakes where you are fishing in thick cover or flipping jigs all day, or throwing topwater or buzzbaits, I would much rather have the braid on and not have to re-spool. Just my $0.02.
Raul reply :
The simple answer is: NO
K_Mac reply :
Or YES. It just depends on who you ask. That is pretty much the case in all aspects of fishing. The only real way of answering most questions is to see what works for you. That is part of the fun of fishing IMO.On 7/21/2014 at 8:59 PM, Raul said:The simple answer is: NO
S Hovanec reply :
In clear water, absolutely. Stained water, not so much.
Tywithay reply :
Unless you want slack line sensitivity and abrasion resistance. That will be present, regardless of water clarity.On 7/22/2014 at 12:46 AM, S Hovanec said:In clear water, absolutely. Stained water, not so much.
primetime reply :
I used to hate the stuff, but now I love it, especially for Worm fishing or any slower application...Maybe it's confidence, but once I took care of it and learned how to use it I am a believer...
Also, the newer stuff is much better than line from even last year IMO
dam0007 reply :
It sinks! Therefore for me, any bottom contact, sinking, diving, etc etc application it plays an advantage for me. Certain fluoros are more abrasion resistant and others more limp and Castable. It's a trade off. Either way it works for me and I have it spooled on 80% of my reels. Don't let cost scare you, there's good stuff to be had and there's always places other than big box stores to buy from. Good luck!
Smokinal reply :
On 7/22/2014 at 5:20 AM, dam0007 said:It stinks!
fixed that for ya
Tywithay reply :
It only stinks if you're using the wrong line. The cheap stuff is unmanageable.On 7/22/2014 at 5:46 AM, Smokinal said:fixed that for ya
rippin-lips reply :
I use it for bottom contact baits. It shines on slack line bites and abrasion resistance compared to other lines such as braid and mono. I only have 2 reels spooled with all fluoro but they are my two for plastics and jigs. Knot strength has been a known issue for some people but I really haven't had problems with that. I tie a uni knot and saw no issues with break offs. It's not for everyone. I say give it a try and make you own judgement call. One word of advice is to buy a quality fluoro. Cheaper ones such as red label aren't very good. One that's reasonable and does a good job is the Berkely 100% fluoro. Sunline sniper is another very good one but costs a bit more.
Smokinal reply :
On 7/22/2014 at 6:05 AM, Tywithay said:It only stinks if you're using the wrong line. The cheap stuff is unmanageable.
Oh I know; just havin fun. Hey, if you like it, you like it. I have tried Sunline, Invis-x and 2 or 3 other quality lines and they all did the same thing, which is to just spring off the reel like a slinky that's been wound up real tight, then let go. It would just spring off the reel into larger coils. Idk, they all did the same thing and when I put my 4 year old braid back on, it's smooth as silk again. I'd love to be able to figure it out but I just don't see the point in going through all the rituals that people do just to be able to use this stuff; bring all your rods inside the night before you go out so it doesn't get cold, spray the line as you spool and then every night before you go out, talk soothingly to it before you cast....and the list goes on. Geeze, I've dated women who were less maintenance than this stuff....
rippin-lips reply :
I use sunline sniper in #16 and don't do anything to it at all. It might get a few sprays of kvd l&l once every few months if I remember to do it but generally I just fish it as is.
Tywithay reply :
Were you using it on a spinning reel?On 7/22/2014 at 7:33 AM, Smokinal said:Oh I know; just havin fun. Hey, if you like it, you like it. I have tried Sunline, Invis-x and 2 or 3 other quality lines and they all did the same thing, which is to just spring off the reel like a slinky that's been wound up real tight, then let go. It would just spring off the reel into larger coils. Idk, they all did the same thing and when I put my 4 year old braid back on, it's smooth as silk again. I'd love to be able to figure it out but I just don't see the point in going through all the rituals that people do just to be able to use this stuff; bring all your rods inside the night before you go out so it doesn't get cold, spray the line as you spool and then every night before you go out, talk soothingly to it before you cast....and the list goes on. Geeze, I've dated women who were less maintenance than this stuff....
Smokinal reply :
^^^No, baitcasters. And I have tried it on 3 different reels with same results.
dam0007 reply :
On 7/22/2014 at 6:05 PM, Smokinal said:^^^No, baitcasters. And I have tried it on 3 different reels with same results.
I use InvizX on spinning 6# and baitcasting 10#, AbrazX on Baitcasting 10# 12# 15# 17# and as leader on braid 12# & 15# also as backing for 30ft braid leader on flipping reel. Red Label on Spinning in 6# and Baitcasting 10#. As you can see I like Seaguar lol Ive only had 1 issue and it wasnt line management (3 bad spools with nicks from factory of 10# InvizX). Not to talk smack in anyway but it could have been spooled wrong or you purchased bad spools. Or your reels have a problem. If the line "stinks" then there wouldn't be a enormous market place for it.
Smokinal reply :
All were spooled like an old school cassette tape...over the outside tops of the spools. One question I will raise though is, when I cast, I usually lightly thumb the spool a couple of times. I have wondered if this may cause the line to spring off the spool. Are you not allowed to do this either with fluoro?
BrianinMD reply :
What do you mean by "over the outside tops of the spools"?
thumbing the spool shouldn't be an issue, I do it all the time myself and never had an issue.
Smokinal reply :
Like this guy does. And there was another vid shared by someone from Icast that showed the same method.
http://video.fishingclub.com/video/How-To-Spool-Your-Baitcaster-Ji
dam0007 reply :
Might have too much breaking and tension on tension knob???
senile1 reply :
On 7/23/2014 at 3:22 AM, Smokinal said:Like this guy does. And there was another vid shared by someone from Icast that showed the same method.
http://video.fishingclub.com/video/How-To-Spool-Your-Baitcaster-Ji
That is a typical way to load line on a baitcaster. I can't imagine how the line would just leap off of a baitcasting reel for you. I have never had any issues with fluorocarbon on a baitcaster. Spinning reels are another matter, though I still use light fluorocarbon on my dropshot rod.
Are you referring to getting bird's nests with it? I'm not trying to be flippant, but you might read this thread to make sure you have it set up properly. http://www.bassresource.com/bass-fishing-forums/topic/92295-how-to-set-up-a-baitcaster/
senile1 reply :
Oh, as for the original question, I like fluorocarbon in some situations that require abrasion resistance and deep diving crankbaits. I am also a bit hesitant to discount the use of it in clear water. I visit Table Rock lake a few times a year and there are places near the dam where I have been able to see the bottom in 30 feet of water. There isn't a guide on that lake that doesn't recommend fluorocarbon or at least fluorocarbon leaders due to line visibility. I have had instances where it seemed to help the bite, but the jury is still out on that for me. I need to gather more evidence.
Smokinal reply :
On 7/23/2014 at 4:04 AM, senile1 said:I'm not trying to be flippant, but you might read this thread to make sure you have it set up properly. http://www.bassresource.com/bass-fishing-forums/topic/92295-how-to-set-up-a-baitcaster/
It's ok and thanks for the tip; I'll always take a lesson! It's like the lines have always wanted to be straight and will not stay in the small coil of the reel spool; they want to return to the larger coil size of the filler spool. Idk, I have half a spool of Sunline Sniper in 16#, I'm 1/2 tempted to try it one more time on my jig rod.
And I need to apologize to OP for the hijack! Not intended.
Trek reply :
IMO for flipping and shaky heads it's the only line to use. I can feel so much better with it and no stretch when you set the hook. This time of year we take long casts and fish 12 to 20 feet deep. I know I would be missing fish on mono. Also when my buddy and I go to Canada and fish walleyes with a jig and minnow. I have proved to him that FC will get you more fish. A lot of times that bite is so light you have to put your finger on the line to feel it. You never will with mono. I will say FC does have more memory but learn how to deal with it. Because what you gain from it is worth the pain. I spray KVD line conditioner on it and it does seem to help.
hoosierbass07 reply :
So all of you love FL. Now my question - how did fisherman catch big bass in super clear lakes before bass fisherman started using FL?
Tywithay reply :
That's an absurdist reach. Same way they did with a cane pole and can of worms. Technology is about making things easier and improving on past innovations. If you want to use a fiberglass rod with an old Ryobi, be my guest. I'm going to continue to change with the times and try new things. I still catch fish on mono too, but I can't, and won't, dismiss the advantages of fluorocarbon.On 7/23/2014 at 8:10 PM, hoosierbass07 said:So all of you love FL. Now my question - how did fisherman catch big bass in super clear lakes before bass fisherman started using FL?
*Hootie reply :
On 7/22/2014 at 2:11 PM, Tywithay said:Were you using it on a spinning reel?
The women, or the line?...lol.
Hootie
TorqueConverter reply :
The claim that fluorocarbon lines are less visible than other translucent mono filament type lines is unsubstantiated. This claim is based on refractive index of the fluorocarbon and that its reactive index is similar to that of water, making the fishing line less visible to fish, is marketing hype. The biggest problem with this myth is that it plays on people's ignorance of what refraction is and how is affects transparent objects. If you really want to talk about the optical effects of refractive index, then you must talk about lenses and viewing an object through that lens
Criteria for observing the visual effects of refraction when used as a lens:
1. It must be used as a lens. It must be held up to the eye and viewed through. If you don't treat it like a lens then any effects stemming from the refractive index cannot be observed. Fish have to be aware of the line and attempting to look though it to even begin to observe the visual clarity of the line. The fish must be aware of your line and keenly interested in looking though it. This =/= invisibility.
2. The lens mush be of high clarity. There is no point in discussing the refractive index of a material unless the material is of a very high degree of clarity. Refractive index is broken by lenses that are cloudy or are translucent. Fishing lines are translucent.
3. The lens must be of a reasonable size to view an image through. If your lens is microscopic and only viewable through a microscope then is no point is discussing the ability of a naked eye to detect the optical effects of that lens. The diameters of fishing lines used in bass fishing are so small that even if they were clear as glass, they are so small that they require a magnifying glass and to even begin thinking about viewing an image through them.
4. Cylinders make terrible lenses. There is so much optical distortion present in cylinder shaped lens that any discussion about the refractive index of the cylinders is made moot. A 10% deference in refractive index in a cylinder is not discernible (unless the viewing image is a white/black checkerboard) to the naked eye due to the inherent distortion in the cylinder lense. Fishing lines are cylinders.
At this point this invisibility myth is busted and when the difference in refractive index between a fluorocarbon line and a mono type line is going to be around 10% -15% at most, there was never anything to debunk in the 1st place.
hoosierbass07 reply :
On 7/23/2014 at 8:20 PM, Tywithay said:That's an absurdist reach. Same way they did with a cane pole and can of worms. Technology is about making things easier and improving on past innovations.
Is fluorocarbon line really an improvement and does it make fishing better? From what I've read, the water refractive index is 1.33, fluorocarbon is 1.42, and nylon mono from 1.53 to 1.62. Is that really such a great improvement? Many say they like fluorocarbon because it is stiffer and transmit the bite better. OK, I'll give you that. But if you read fishing boards for a few months your are bound to see posts such as "I've had it with fluorocarbon" or " My knots keep breaking." I don't see too many people bashing mono.
I've had experience with P-Line Floroclear and I don't care to go back to that stuff again. Too many knot breaks. Since I've been using mono - no knot breaks even when I grab the line near the hook (something I try not to do).
When I get my new spinning reel I'm thinking of putting eight pound pure fluorocarbon on it and trying it out. But any knot breaks and it's coming off and Sufix mono is going on.
K_Mac reply :
TC I will admit I am ignorant of the science of refraction and how it is measured. I am also unsure how refractive index impacts a fishes ability to see fishing line. How does a 10% difference in the index effect a basses ability to see it? Does it matter if it can see it? Does it effect its willingness to bite? I don' know the answers to these questions. What I do know conclusively is that I feel bites when fishing FC that I do not on mono or copoly. I also know without question that I catch more fish using it. I believe the empirical evidence speaks for itself. How much of this is based on line density? How much is based on smaller line diameter? How much is based on it sinking? How much is based on its stretching ability? I don't know the answers to any of these questions. The only thing I do know is that it I catch more fish using it. I don't really care much about anything else.
Catch and Grease reply :
This is getting goood
hoosierbass07 reply :
I'll admit I hate to bash P-Line Floroclear although I do bash it. I did catch a lot of nice sized bass on it. I never lost a fish because the line broke, only knot breaks when I was trying to land the bass. And, when I got snagged it took a lot of effort to break that line. So for line strength, I think it's tough. But those knot breaks ruined it for me. That's why I'm very skeptical of fluorocarbon line. My two biggest bass I caught this spring have bee on mono and I'm glad I had mono on because I had to grab the line by the hand to pull the bass up and out of the water. Really, I miss fishing P-line Floroclear but I don't want any knot breaks.
iabass8 reply :
On 7/24/2014 at 6:50 AM, hoosierbass07 said:Is fluorocarbon line really an improvement and does it make fishing better?
I think so. I love the stuff.
On 7/24/2014 at 6:50 AM, hoosierbass07 said:From what I've read, the water refractive index is 1.33, fluorocarbon is 1.42, and nylon mono from 1.53 to 1.62. Is that really such a great improvement?
Could not care less about its refractive properties. I'd fish it if it were more visible than braid. I love it's slack line sensitivity and the waters I fish demand a highly abrasive line for zebra muscles. There isn't a line on the market than can touch the slack line sensitivity /w the abrasion resistant of a QUALITY fluorocarbon.
On 7/24/2014 at 6:50 AM, hoosierbass07 said:Many say they like fluorocarbon because it is stiffer and transmit the bite better. OK, I'll give you that. But if you read fishing boards for a few months your are bound to see posts such as "I've had it with fluorocarbon" or " My knots keep breaking." I don't see too many people bashing mono.
The majority of the people that have these complaints can't tie proper(fluorocarbon) knots and buy inexpensive junk. I'm sure there will be arguments about that statement but whatever. I'm sure a lot of people can tie great knots /w mono and braid but fluorocarbons, for the most part, require special knots so the line doesn't dig in on itself and break . If people can't accept that, don't use it. I've used extremely cheap fluoro and, currently, use very high end fluoro.(Tatsu, shooter, FC sniper) Knot issues were never a factor if you check your line and tie a good fluorocarbon knot i.e san diego jam, shawn grigsby/no name not w/e its called. I fish anywhere from 6 and 7# fluoro on spinning reels and 12-20 fluoro on casting rods. Can't say I ever have breaks at the knot and I tie the same exact knot for all line sizes; shawn grisgby/double san diego game/ no name knot. If you're tying a knot correctly and wetting it before you synch it down, knot breakages will be a non issue.
KVD line and lure conditioner is a saving grace for any coiling/memory issues for all types mono/fluoro lines.
On 7/24/2014 at 6:50 AM, hoosierbass07 said:
I've had experience with P-Line Floroclear and I don't care to go back to that stuff again. Too many knot breaks. Since I've been using mono - no knot breaks even when I grab the line near the hook (something I try not to do).
When I get my new spinning reel I'm thinking of putting eight pound pure fluorocarbon on it and trying it out. But any knot breaks and it's coming off and Sufix mono is going on.
If mono is working for you, keep using it. Either that of pony up the cash for a good fluoro. Cheap stuff will just disappoint you.
Don't take this as a personal attack if it came off that way. I felt being blunt and breaking your post down would be easier to decipher.
dam0007 reply :
last week I caught roughly 40 bass and a handful of hang ups on the same knot. With that said, guys, not saying you at all, might be tying knots that dig in themselves. Gotta use right knot for the job.On 7/24/2014 at 6:50 AM, hoosierbass07 said:Is fluorocarbon line really an improvement and does it make fishing better? From what I've read, the water refractive index is 1.33, fluorocarbon is 1.42, and nylon mono from 1.53 to 1.62. Is that really such a great improvement? Many say they like fluorocarbon because it is stiffer and transmit the bite better. OK, I'll give you that. But if you read fishing boards for a few months your are bound to see posts such as "I've had it with fluorocarbon" or " My knots keep breaking." I don't see too many people bashing mono.
I've had experience with P-Line Floroclear and I don't care to go back to that stuff again. Too many knot breaks. Since I've been using mono - no knot breaks even when I grab the line near the hook (something I try not to do).
When I get my new spinning reel I'm thinking of putting eight pound pure fluorocarbon on it and trying it out. But any knot breaks and it's coming off and Sufix mono is going on.
Catch and Grease reply :
P-line floroclear isn't a real fluorocarbon though? I thought that was just a fluoro coated line?
Tywithay reply :
On 7/24/2014 at 6:50 AM, hoosierbass07 said:Is fluorocarbon line really an improvement and does it make fishing better? From what I've read, the water refractive index is 1.33, fluorocarbon is 1.42, and nylon mono from 1.53 to 1.62. Is that really such a great improvement? Many say they like fluorocarbon because it is stiffer and transmit the bite better. OK, I'll give you that. But if you read fishing boards for a few months your are bound to see posts such as "I've had it with fluorocarbon" or " My knots keep breaking." I don't see too many people bashing mono.
I've had experience with P-Line Floroclear and I don't care to go back to that stuff again. Too many knot breaks. Since I've been using mono - no knot breaks even when I grab the line near the hook (something I try not to do).
When I get my new spinning reel I'm thinking of putting eight pound pure fluorocarbon on it and trying it out. But any knot breaks and it's coming off and Sufix mono is going on.
First, Fluoroclear is not a fluorocarbon line. It's a copolymer. Second, everyone keeps talking about the refractive index and how fluorocarbon is "invisible;" that's probably the least important advantage that fluorocarbon has over mono. The abrasion resistance of good fluorocarbon, when wet, far exceeds anything mono can even dream of. The good stuff has much less stretch, meaning better hooksets and more sensitivity. It doesn't break down under UV light, so you can leave it on the spool for much longer and it won't weaken, like mono. The biggest key is just to get good line. Too many people just want to try it and end up getting the cheapest kind, then they hate it. The better quality line you get, the more pleasant the experience.
rippin-lips reply :
Here is a good read on fluorocarbon lines from TT. Take a look and you might find out a few things you didn't know.
http://www.tackletour.com/reviewfluorocarbontest.html
http://www.tackletour.com/reviewfluorocarbon2.html
Logan S reply :
Hogsticker reply :
I agree with the previous post 100%. If you really want to use it you have to learn to use it and adjust. All fluorocarbon lines are not created equal. It sinks, a huge plus. Low stretch, another bonus. Great slack line sensitivity, at times a must. You just have to pay a little closer attention to every cast. I use twelve pound Sniper for lipless cranks. On my T3 MX on long cast with the brake dial set at two I can still wing it and get longer casts than mono or braid. With a fresh spool I simply run two thirds of the line behind the boat and troll a lure for a few minutes to tame and stretch the line a bit. Pretty simple. I'll be honest. I use to hate fluorocarbon till I tried Sniper.
rippin-lips reply :
#1 line and lure does nothing - false/debatable
#2 red label is excellent - false/debatable
#3 it's not invisible - false/debatable
There's been plenty of underwater footage showing a bait on different line types and fluoro is the hardest to see underwater or 'invisible' as they like to say.
Tywithay reply :
On 7/24/2014 at 11:16 PM, rippin-lips said:#1 line and lure does nothing - false/debatable
#2 red label is excellent - false/debatable
#3 it's not invisible - false/debatable
There's been plenty of underwater footage showing a bait on different line types and fluoro is the hardest to see underwater or 'invisible' as they like to say.
We all know Cajun Line is the most invisible though, because it's red...
Logan S reply :
On 7/24/2014 at 11:16 PM, rippin-lips said:#1 line and lure does nothing - false/debatable
#2 red label is excellent - false/debatable
#3 it's not invisible - false/debatable
There's been plenty of underwater footage showing a bait on different line types and fluoro is the hardest to see underwater or 'invisible' as they like to say.
1: If you like it, don't let me stop you It's not doing the same thing it does to mono/copoly.
2: Don't buy it if you don't like it It works very well for me and many, many others. Never said it was the absolute best.
3: I've looked at it, both from above and below the surface with my own eyes. You can see it. Either way, like I said earlier it's a non-factor to me.
I'm advocating using flouro by the way, for me mono/colpoly only touches topwater stuff. Just passing along my on the water experience, don't take it personally or anything.
rippin-lips reply :
It's not personal at all.
It's all been discussed on here 10,000 times before.
hoosierbass07 reply :
I'll admit I didn't wet my line much when using P-Line Floroclear. Also, I probably didn't pay much attention if my palomar knot was tied correctly. On the bass I lost when the knot broke, the knot never broke while fighting the bass, only when I pulled the bass out of the water and I grabbed the line a few inches above the hook or maybe a foot or two above the hook. If the bass jerked any the knot broke.
rippin-lips reply :
Gotta make sure nothing is crossed line wise when tying and then I always loosen/open up the overhand knot I make once I pass it over the lure. Open it up pretty far so when you are cinching the knot down you don't burn the line from friction. That's what really weakens fluorocarbon line.
iabass8 reply :
On 7/24/2014 at 9:08 PM, Stratos20SS said:
Tie a palomar knot. Wet the line, including ALL the line that will pass thru the knot (the whole loop). Cinch it down SLOWLY. You can choose another knot and follow these steps too, but the palomar is the easiest and also the strongest IMO.
The Palomar is not an efficient knot for fluorocarbon lines. Albeit it works for the most part, it's been proven time after time it is not the most efficient or even close to the strongest knot to use
On 7/24/2014 at 9:08 PM, Stratos20SS said:
Check the last 5 feet of your line often (with any line). Even grass can fray line if you're in it enough. Retie every few fish or every couple hours...Even with no visable damage, the line/knots will get stressed.
Agree
On 7/24/2014 at 9:08 PM, Stratos20SS said:
Line conditioners are useless on flouro, don't waste your time/money. Flouro doesn't absorb water like mono/braid does...So line conditioner will only sit on top of it until it dries out.
Completely untrue.(I'm not even a huge advocate of using it or everything like some but I do understand how it works and the benefits to it. If you don't understand how KVD Line and Lure works on lines, namely fluorocarbons, don't give the OP nonsensical information to which you haven't been educated yourself on.
On 7/24/2014 at 9:08 PM, Stratos20SS said:
You don't need to spend big bucks. Seagar Red Label is excellent line, I use it almost exclusivly. BassPro XPS is also excellent.It is stiffer than mono/braid. You will have to adjust your casting especially on baitcasting gear. It's not hard, just do it...It will make you an even better caster when you pick up a rod with braid/mono.
Agree. I don't use cheap fluorocarbons but XPS isn't that bad.
You don't need to adjust your brakes if you use KVD line and Lure correctly just one time.
RoLo reply :
.
Does Fluorocarbon Matter As Much As Companies Say It Does?
It matters most to the companies who say it does 
(Doesn't mean a thing to me)
aavery2 reply :
On 7/25/2014 at 9:25 AM, hoosierbass07 said:I'll admit I didn't wet my line much when using P-Line Floroclear. Also, I probably didn't pay much attention if my palomar knot was tied correctly. On the bass I lost when the knot broke, the knot never broke while fighting the bass, only when I pulled the bass out of the water and I grabbed the line a few inches above the hook or maybe a foot or two above the hook. If the bass jerked any the knot broke.
So buy some real FC line and tell us about your results, you continue to bring up P-Line Floroclear and your results with it are not relevant to this thread. Sorry it didn't work for you, try some Seaguar InviszX or something else and report back.
shanksmare reply :
Things are not always the way they seem to be or the way others would have you believe they are. In an earlier post I referenced a test done by Glenn Lau which showed that braided line was actually less visible to fish than mono or flouro (at least in clear water with sunny skies). I haven't been able to find the actual picture of the test but here is an article that details the test:
http://www.oklahomabassfishing.com/vic701.html
Here is the meat of the article:
We do a lot of things to make our line seem to disappear when it enters the water. From the different colored monofilaments to the use of a water-proof marking pen on the last two or three feet of line before the lure, there are many ways anglers try to hide the most important tool of the trade.
But is it really necessary?
Actually? No. Mentally? It can't hurt.
If you think it helps, then by all means do it. Confidence catches as many fish as skill. And if you think it will help, then it probably will, just by adding to your confidence.
When I started using braided line (Spiderwire to be exact.), one of the main reasons was the line's ability to disappear underwater. Especially under a bright, sunny sky. The video tape that was enclosed with the line showed renowned videographer, Glenn Lau, with a board underwater. Attached to the board were many different sizes and colors of mono line and one strand of Spiderwire. No matter which way the board was turned, towards or away from the sunlight, the monos glistened like a laser beam. The braid was unseen. It had no reflectivity whatsoever.
Do I think it helps me catch fish? Yes, but not because of its reflective properties, but because of its sensitivity. Though it doesn't hurt because the fish can't see it as well as mono.
So next time you're out, do what makes you feel best. Heavy line or light line. It doesn't matter to the fish.....but it does to you!
I can think of anecdotal evidence that both supports and contradicts the article, so .... Food for thought!
Tywithay reply :
Fish don't see the dark line, they see the silhouette. What humans see and what fish see/feel are very different. That's why people use dark colored baits in clear water.On 7/25/2014 at 6:36 PM, shanksmare said:Things are not always the way they seem to be or the way others would have you believe they are. In an earlier post I referenced a test done by Glenn Lau which showed that braided line was actually less visible to fish than mono or flouro (at least in clear water with sunny skies). I haven't been able to find the actual picture of the test but here is an article that details the test:
http://www.oklahomabassfishing.com/vic701.html
Here is the meat of the article:
We do a lot of things to make our line seem to disappear when it enters the water. From the different colored monofilaments to the use of a water-proof marking pen on the last two or three feet of line before the lure, there are many ways anglers try to hide the most important tool of the trade.
But is it really necessary?
Actually? No. Mentally? It can't hurt.
If you think it helps, then by all means do it. Confidence catches as many fish as skill. And if you think it will help, then it probably will, just by adding to your confidence.
When I started using braided line (Spiderwire to be exact.), one of the main reasons was the line's ability to disappear underwater. Especially under a bright, sunny sky. The video tape that was enclosed with the line showed renowned videographer, Glenn Lau, with a board underwater. Attached to the board were many different sizes and colors of mono line and one strand of Spiderwire. No matter which way the board was turned, towards or away from the sunlight, the monos glistened like a laser beam. The braid was unseen. It had no reflectivity whatsoever.
Do I think it helps me catch fish? Yes, but not because of its reflective properties, but because of its sensitivity. Though it doesn't hurt because the fish can't see it as well as mono.
So next time you're out, do what makes you feel best. Heavy line or light line. It doesn't matter to the fish.....but it does to you!
I can think of anecdotal evidence that both supports and contradicts the article, so .... Food for thought!
Logan S reply :
On 7/25/2014 at 10:36 AM, iabass8 said:The Palomar is not an efficient knot for fluorocarbon lines. Albeit it works for the most part, it's been proven time after time it is not the most efficient or even close to the strongest knot to use
Regardless, the point is tie them carefully...I particularly like the palomar because there's not a lot of line to move/twist when you tie it. Friction when tying is a huge knot killer. Any of the popular knots will work provided you do it properly, I'll stick to the palomar.
On 7/25/2014 at 10:36 AM, iabass8 said:Completely untrue.(I'm not even a huge advocate of using it or everything like some but I do understand how it works and the benefits to it. If you don't understand how KVD Line and Lure works on lines, namely fluorocarbons, don't give the OP nonsensical information to which you haven't been educated yourself on.
I know how it works on lines . Flouro doesn't absorb water like mono/copoly does...So in essence what you are doing is simply lubricating your flouro with L&L. Maybe that helps some people? On mono it absorbs into the line and makes it more manageable (incidentally, you can get the same effect by soaking it in water, AKA fishing with it for a few dozen casts). For the record, I've used it...I didn't find any changes on flouro.
For the OP and anyone else interested, I found this article a while ago to be very interesting. It's good breakdown of mono/flouro from a somewhat scientific standpoint. The whole article is a good read and related to this discussion, but for what we are talking about here, pay close attention the paragraph on Water Absorption .
http://www.bigindianabass.com/big_indiana_bass/the-truth-about-fluorocarbon.html
Team9nine reply :
Back on the two originally proposed questions:
- Does Flourocarbon Matter As Much As Companies Say It Does? - NO -
- Does fluorocarbon really make that much of a difference in the amount of fish you catch? - In some instances where you take advantage of its strengths, yes.
IMHO...
-T9
Tywithay reply :
What companies say that fluorocarbon matters? Every company produces multiple lines and generally doesn't promote any single one. I've heard fishermen touting fluorocarbon, never a company.On 7/25/2014 at 11:02 PM, Team9nine said:Back on the two originally proposed questions:
- Does Flourocarbon Matter As Much As Companies Say It Does?
- Does the fluorocarbon really make that much of a difference in the amount of fish you catch?
If you think it helps you catch more fish, then you'll catch more fish. Confidence in your equipment is important out on the water.
thehooligan reply :
Never understood all the hate on flouroclear.
Ive used that line religiously the past few years. 6lb for finesse fishing, 10-12lb for casting gear. Landed a personal best 5lb pike on 6lb line, and 10lb muskie on 10lb line.
Tie a proper clinch knot and your good to go...
Tywithay reply :
I used it for a couple years and never had an issue. I just upgraded to better lines nowadays. I'd still use fluoroclear without question. Still not sure why people think it's fluorocarbon though.On 7/25/2014 at 11:27 PM, thehooligan said:Never understood all the hate on flouroclear.
Ive used that line religiously the past few years. 6lb for finesse fishing, 10-12lb for casting gear. Landed a personal best 5lb pike on 6lb line, and 10lb muskie on 10lb line.
Tie a proper clinch knot and your good to go...
thehooligan reply :
On 7/25/2014 at 11:35 PM, Tywithay said:I used it for a couple years and never had an issue. I just upgraded to better lines nowadays. I'd still use fluoroclear without question. Still not sure why people think it's fluorocarbon though.
I think your general consumer just see's flouro in the name. most likely has no idea its a copoly.
Im giving sunline another chance, just picked up a spool of 7lb sniper for my alde with the ktf spool. I feel like it'll be a good match.
I tried tatsu and sniper in the past, i can justify sniper, tatsu is over the budget though. $37 for 200yds of flouro is a bit much...
And this is coming from someone that doesnt typically budget himself when it comes to fishing, lol.
A-Jay reply :
On 7/25/2014 at 8:36 PM, Stratos20SS said:
http://www.bigindianabass.com/big_indiana_bass/the-truth-about-fluorocarbon.html
(I'm not affiliated in anyway with this site, just found it on the net and bookmarked it)
Thank you for posting this link ~
Good Stuff right there.
A-Jay
Hogsticker reply :
Matt - I didn't like Sniper my first go round either, 10 lb test. I decided to try it again in twelve and absolutely love it. I think different diameters provide different results. That coupled with the right reel makes a difference. I originally had it on a Zillion, now on a T3. Proved to me that the 3D braking is more than a gimmick, so it was a win win. Regarding the line conditioner comments, I found using it on fluorocarbon yealds little advantage. Stretching the line in the drink works much better. Plenty of current where I launch so it's my first stop with a fresh spool. And I've had zero problems with a Palomar knot. Just step it as suggested above. I've had more problems with an improved clinch. I tie direct, no leaders
IneedAnewScreenName-983749 reply :
I think it does. There really is an increase in sensitivity over mono. Plus it's almost invisible in the water is an added plus.
hoosierbass07 reply :
On 7/24/2014 at 10:25 AM, rippin-lips said:Here is a good read on fluorocarbon lines from TT. Take a look and you might find out a few things you didn't know.
http://www.tackletour.com/reviewfluorocarbontest.html
http://www.tackletour.com/reviewfluorocarbon2.html
I'm going to try Seaguar InvizX in 8lb. From reading those two sites and from what I've been reading from other sites - my best knot will probably be the improved clinch knot.
I did some knot tests last night (very rough and un-scientific) using my new InvizX 8 pound line and trying to lift my ten pound tackle back with a hook and the fluoro line. Using a palomor knot, the knot seemed to break at the knot or right on top of the knot. Tried a uni knot (not sure I tied it correctly) but that knot slipped. Then I tried the simple improved clinch knot and that knot held.
Cgrinder reply :
On 7/28/2014 at 6:21 AM, hoosierbass07 said:I'm going to try Seaguar InvizX in 8lb. From reading those two sites and from what I've been reading from other sites - my best knot will probably be the improved clinch knot.
I did some knot tests last night (very rough and un-scientific) using my new InvizX 8 pound line and trying to lift my ten pound tackle back with a hook and the fluoro line. Using a palomor knot, the knot seemed to break at the knot or right on top of the knot. Tried a uni knot (not sure I tied it correctly) but that knot slipped. Then I tried the simple improved clinch knot and that knot held.
It's worthwhile to add in the San Diego Jam knot. Myself and others use it on fluorocarbon with great success.
rippin-lips reply :
That's strange that the uni slipped. It's a type of cinch knot. The more you pull,the tighter it gets. How many wraps did you make?
RoLo reply :
What is it about 'Fluorocarbon' threads that always become immersed in Knot-Typing??
Maybe it's just me, but I have zero-tolerance for any line material that has zero-tolerance for me.
Roger
Tywithay reply :
Yeah, if something requires work; better to just give up.On 7/28/2014 at 7:27 AM, RoLo said:What is it about 'Fluorocarbon' threads that always become immersed in Knot-Typing??
Maybe it's just me, but I have zero-tolerance for any line material that has zero-tolerance for me.
Roger
K_Mac reply :
Roger I think it always comes up because in order to take advantage of the great characteristics of fluorocarbon the knot is key. It is not a deal breaker for me. I know that if I tie a San Diego jam knot, wet it properly, and cinch it down carefully it is not an issue. For those who are not conscientious about getting the knot right every time fluorocarbon is unacceptable. It is like punching with a light wire hook using heavy braid and blaming the line when the hook fails.
RoLo reply :
On 7/28/2014 at 8:04 AM, Tywithay said:Yeah, if something requires work; better to just give up.
"Work" is tying your own jigs, reloading your own cartridges, portaging over large stretches of dry land,
creating your own contour charts and camping far from electricity. Those are just a few of the jobs I love.
When it comes to dealing with wiry line that forms untrustworthy knots, I'm going to leave that 'work' for you 
Roger
hoosierbass07 reply :
On 7/28/2014 at 7:23 AM, rippin-lips said:That's strange that the uni slipped. It's a type of cinch knot. The more you pull,the tighter it gets. How many wraps did you make?
I'm not sure. I'll try it again and see how it holds up.
hoosierbass07 reply :
On 7/28/2014 at 7:18 AM, Cgrinder said:It's worthwhile to add in the San Diego Jam knot. Myself and others use it on fluorocarbon with great success.
Is the San Diego Jam knot good for light fluoro like 8lb test?
K_Mac reply :
On 7/28/2014 at 10:33 AM, hoosierbass07 said:Is the San Diego Jam knot good for light fluoro like 8lb test?
Yes.
Smallmouth Hunter reply :
I am going to say no, fluoro doesn't matter all to much. Maybe in really clear water is will be less visible, but there isn't any really clear water around me so I don't worry about it. I hear a lot about slack line sensitivity, and while I agree that this is true, I don't feel it is really that big of a deal. You can feel slack line bites just fine with mono/copolymer, and if a fish takes your bait, you will know it. There is no way I would shell out $15+ for 150 yds of line. Line that is slightly more sensitive, but casts worse and has poor manageability and knot strength. The cons outweigh the pros. that being said, id buy fluoro if it was priced similarly to mono lines. I see all these fluoro lines priced over $20 and it really makes me wonder what kind of profit margin these companies are getting. Especially lines like tatsu, JDM fluoros, etc. Some guys say it doesn't make sense to spend hundreds on rods and reels yet cheap out on line, but I think it does. Line is basically disposable. Your rods/reels aren't.
Tywithay reply :
A good fluorocarbon doesn't manage, or cast, any worse than mono. It also has much, much better abrasion and UV resistance. That means less retying and you don't have to respool as often. A $25 spool of fluorocarbon will last 3x-5x longer than mono, evening out, or saving money, in the long run. I still use mono quite a bit, but it's not really any cheaper; if you use good mono.On 7/28/2014 at 12:27 PM, aprw1 said:I am going to say no, fluoro doesn't matter all to much. Maybe in really clear water is will be less visible, but there isn't any really clear water around me so I don't worry about it. I hear a lot about slack line sensitivity, and while I agree that this is true, I don't feel it is really that big of a deal. You can feel slack line bites just fine with mono/copolymer, and if a fish takes your bait, you will know it. There is no way I would shell out $15+ for 150 yds of line. Line that is slightly more sensitive, but casts worse and has poor manageability and knot strength. The cons outweigh the pros. that being said, id buy fluoro if it was priced similarly to mono lines. I see all these fluoro lines priced over $20 and it really makes me wonder what kind of profit margin these companies are getting. Especially lines like tatsu, JDM fluoros, etc. Some guys say it doesn't make sense to spend hundreds on rods and reels yet cheap out on line, but I think it does. Line is basically disposable. Your rods/reels aren't.
Hogsticker reply :
People try fluorocarbon once, have a bad experience, and pretty much give up and call it a day right then and there. I can't speak as to the lighter test. I use 12 and 13, and 15lb for primary use. The only mono that will closely match the casting ability of a quality fluorocarbon is Sunline Defier, and the cost is pretty much a wash. I'll use the fluorocarbon where I can benefit from the low stretch and slack line sensitivity.
John G reply :
On 7/28/2014 at 9:30 AM, RoLo said:"Work" is tying your own jigs, reloading your own cartridges, portaging over large stretches of dry land,
creating your own contour charts and camping far from electricity. Those are just a few of the jobs I love.
When it comes to dealing with wiry line that forms untrustworthy knots, I'm going to leave that 'work' for you
Roger
They say if you are doing a job that you love, then it's not work!
RoLo reply :
On 7/28/2014 at 9:32 PM, John G said:They say if you are doing a job that you love, then it's not work!
Exactly!
Fluoro & I had an affair in the mid 90s, but I've since fallen out of love 
Roger
John G reply :
On 7/28/2014 at 10:16 PM, RoLo said:Exactly!
Fluoro & I had an affair in the mid 90s, but I've since fallen out of love
Roger
Tatsu is some great stuff! Problem is is that I have to save my pennies to be able to afford it! LOL
K_Mac reply :
On 7/28/2014 at 10:16 PM, RoLo said:Exactly!
Fluoro & I had an affair in the mid 90s, but I've since fallen out of love
Roger
Roger with the exception of my wife and family I have found love to be a fleeting thing. I am still in the early "infatuation" stage of my relationship with fluoro. 
One thing is certain: When it comes to fluorocarbon, love it or hate it, the topic always makes for interesting discussion.
RoLo reply :
On 7/28/2014 at 11:45 PM, K_Mac said:Roger with the exception of my wife and family I have found love to be a fleeting thing. I am still in the early "infatuation" stage of my relationship with fluoro.
One thing is certain: When it comes to fluorocarbon, love it or hate it, the topic always makes for interesting discussion.
The fishing line industry has never been more technological and competitive. Any 'bad' fishing line today,
would go the way of braided linen and braided kevlar. I actually remember when my dad dried out his braided linen
after every fishing trip. He wrapped it on a loom he fashioned in our backyard (as a kid, I was puzzled by this ritual).
Today’s anglers are spoiled rotten, and of course that includes me, someone whe grew up with Cuttyhunk & catgut..LOL.
Every line material has its Pros and Cons, and every angler has his own individual tolerances and intolerances
for different line properties. The upshot of course, is an eclectic mix of opinions. Differences of opinion notwithstanding,
is the fabric of debate and forum. As you stated Kirby: "This topic always makes for an interesting discussion”.
Roger
hoosierbass07 reply :
I used 100% fluorocarbon yesterday evening from the bank. No bass caught, bad weather this weekend. 8lb on my spinning reel. I could tell right away FL is more stiff and you can feel every little tap. I felt light taps I never felt with mono. Also sinks very fast. I hope to give it a proper try next weekend from my kayak. I shall see how this 8lb line holds up compared to mono. I do have faith in mono, 6, 8, 10 and 12lb mono.
LMB KING reply :
Yes it matters in very clear water.
hoosierbass07 reply :
On 7/28/2014 at 10:16 PM, RoLo said:Exactly!
Fluoro & I had an affair in the mid 90s, but I've since fallen out of love
Roger
So what line do you use know?
hoosierbass07 reply :
What is the proper way to test fishing line and knots? I took some of that 8lb Invixz line and tied one end to a hook using different knots and cut off about 2 to 3 feet of line. Then I hooked my tackle bag and grabbed the other end with my hand (using a glove). I weighed my bag fist and it was 10 pounds. The line broke every time before it lifted it off the floor. Then I took out some stuff and got my bag around 8 pounds and line still broke. Then I took out more stuff and got it around 5 and 3/4 pounds. I could then lift the bag but when I slowly bounced it up and down the line would break.
Now what's the deal? Shouldn't this eight pound line be able to hold a six pound bag and not break? Was my line too short? Do I need more than 2 and 1/2 feet when I test line?
RoLo reply :
On 7/29/2014 at 7:28 AM, hoosierbass07 said:So what line do you use know?
For largemouth bass: Berkley 30 lb Trilene Braid (tied direct)
Smallmouth Hunter reply :
Last thing I forgot to mention is the no stretch claims by fluorocarbons. I feel that they do stretch some but not quite as much as some mono/copolymers though. The problem is that once you stretch the fluoro, it will become very weak because it doesn't have the same elastic properties of monofilament lines. If you stretch fluoro too much, it cannot recover and will break very easily which I have found to be a big issue.
RoLo reply :
On 7/29/2014 at 9:20 AM, aprw1 said:Last thing I forgot to mention is the no stretch claims by fluorocarbons. I feel that they do stretch some but not quite as much as some mono/copolymers though. The problem is that once you stretch the fluoro, it will become very weak because it doesn't have the same elastic properties of monofilament lines. If you stretch fluoro too much, it cannot recover and will break very easily which I have found to be a big issue.
Several years back, TackleTour conducted an ambitious line study.
Based on their findings, the difference in elasticity between fluorocarbon and nylon was a wash.
The winner in fact, hinged on the brands in the comparison.
In several shootouts, fluorocarbon stretched significantly more than nylon.
Roger
QUAKEnSHAKE reply :
On 7/29/2014 at 7:34 AM, hoosierbass07 said:What is the proper way to test fishing line and knots? I took some of that 8lb Invixz line and tied one end to a hook using different knots and cut off about 2 to 3 feet of line. Then I hooked my tackle bag and grabbed the other end with my hand (using a glove). I weighed my bag fist and it was 10 pounds. The line broke every time before it lifted it off the floor. Then I took out some stuff and got my bag around 8 pounds and line still broke. Then I took out more stuff and got it around 5 and 3/4 pounds. I could then lift the bag but when I slowly bounced it up and down the line would break.
Now what's the deal? Shouldn't this eight pound line be able to hold a six pound bag and not break? Was my line too short? Do I need more than 2 and 1/2 feet when I test line?
I wouldnt like that at all. If my line is any name 8# it has to test better than 8# in my testing that I perform. Whether its accurate or not I test all my lines with "my test" a digital fish scale, varied lengths of line and hook tied with through eye twice 6 turn uni knot and or palomar knot. I hook into weights and slowly pull up til line snaps/knot gives. If I cant get rated strength with multiple tests I return line or just put it away dont use it.
5- 3/4# for 8# line is awful IMO
hoosierbass07 reply :
On second thought, maybe my tests are not right. When I lift my bag with the line I then bounce it softly to see if the line and knot can hold up. I was just thinking, bouncing is going to increase the pull or weight on the line. I'm done with testing at home. The true test will be on the water.
ChrisD46 reply :
On 7/21/2014 at 7:29 PM, BrianinMD said:I have switched all of my non-topwater rods to flouro, the biggest thing to me was the slack line bites. The density of the line transmits the bites better then other lines, and I fish a lot of baits which have a pause in the retrieve. Before I did this I had several trips where my boater (using flouro) would be beating with several fish to each of mine. I would also go to move the bait sometimes and something would have it. by the time I got a hookset in the fish was gone. Since I have switched I can keep up with my boater and have greatly reduced the lost fish due to not feeling the pickup.
+1 ... Excellent example for using fluorocarbon line !!
jhoffman reply :
I keep saying I am never gonna run fluoro again and then at some point I do. I put 12lb red label I had in the boat on my crankn rod the other day and thought id have major issues. I then let all the line out with a crankbait and cranked it up before use. I dont know if its the better braking system compared to my old reels or what it is, but with these new reels I didnt have a problem this round. If I can find something that would be consistent with results as far as manageability id probably fish it. Though I gotta say mccoy copoly is some awesome line and has not failed me yet. 15lb mccoy and a jig oh they better watch out.
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