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Sensitivity, Separating The Reality From The Propaganda 2024


fishing user avatar.ghoti. reply : 

I started thinking seriously about this a couple of years ago. There is a lot of misinformation being peddled as fact by the marketing folks.

I'm old enough to remember the "before graphite" days. Back then nobody talked about the sensitivity of a fishing rod. The term sensitivity made it into the vernacular when graphite hit the market. It was one of ways graphite rods were marketed to unbelieving anglers. A lot of fishermen wanted nothing to do with graphite in the early days. We mostly wanted our tried and true, nearly indestructible glass rods.

To be clear about, the earliest graphite rods were very brittle, and not at all durable. A lot of people, myself included, broke the first graphite rod we bought, and did so rather easily, and soon. But things got better very quickly. The bugs got worked out of materials and processes almost as fast as the complaints flew. In very short order everybody had a graphite rod on the market. At the time choices for graphite materials were limited. Everybody's rods were basically made from the same stuff. From the same manufacturer.

Tackle companies tried to differentiate their products from others buy touting their "superior sensitivity". The Sensitivity War had begun. And has never ended. The term has been beaten so far into our consciousness that we can't help ourselves. We simply will not even consider purchasing a rod that does not scream sensitivity in every conceivable marketing venue.

What I do not want to get into here is discussion of IM6 vs IM7 vs IM????. The terms are meaningless as a basis for comparison. Ditto the "new" version; 30ton, 40ton, megaton, whatever. Who know what the flame any of that means? I hate to even mention modulus, or the be properly technical, "the modulus of elasticity; maybe the most abused term in the history of hyperbole.

What I want to discuss is how we perceive this. I began by wondering which of my fingers was the most sensitive to the vibrations transmitted by the rod blank. The thought came about because I hold the rod/reel combo differently depending upon the application. When fishing bottom contact baits; jigs and plastics, I hold my baitcaster with the trigger behind my little finger. When fishing moving baits; cranks and spinnerbaits, I hold it with the trigger between my middle finger and forefinger, or between ring and middle finger. So, in the first case, either my little finger or ring finger, or both, was in contact with the blank. In the second case, middle or forefinger.

Wanting to know, and in the best tradition of the scientific method, I formulated a hypothesis, designed an experiment to test said hypothesis and started making observations with the eventual outcome being a rational theory. The basis of the hypothesis was; my little finger, being the weakest and least used of the lot, would be the most sensitive, and the middle finger, being the strongest, would be the least sensitive. So the experiment began at the beginning of the 2010 fishing season.

Note: this is the kind of thing that can and will occur to a techno-geek over a long hard winter.

I started trying to take note of what I felt upon every tick, tap, pull, tug, yank, drop, stop, plop, plop, fizz, fizz, etc. At first this was quite difficult to do. Over time I acquired the proper mental focus to begin making useful observations. I found this was only possible when fishing by myself. So I continued for all of 2010 and 2011. And since I fish alone more often than not, I was able make and record quite few observations. At the beginning I was quite sure my hypothesis would be proved correct. I thought I was on the right track.

So much for thoughtin". I could not have been more wrong in my assumptions.

What I discovered was simple. None of my brazillion megaton, hyper-modulus, nano-fractal resinous wonders of modern technology fish sticks sent any vibrations down the blank that were detectable by my fingers, no matter where I placed said fingers.

Depending on how I held the rod, and at what angle my wrist was relative to my fore-arm, I felt the strikes either in my hand, or in my wrist. Not in my fingers. For all that my fingers told me about what was happening at the end of my line, I may as well have had them jammed up my nose.

I proved my hypothesis thank you very much. Proved it to be dead wrong.

I know this flies directly in the face of what you've been told over and over and over, ad infinitum, ad nauseum.

It contradicts what I believed to be the truth of the matter. But I can scarcely discredit my own observations.

My final thought on the matter is this. Almost all R&D being done regarding rods seems to be focused on materials and processes. I think we may need to start looking at ergonomics. Ergonomics as it applies to perception and not comfort or stress.

I'm hoping some young researcher, looking to make a name for himself, will take up the idea, and design a reel seat/grip form that increases sensitivity by putting the hand, wrist and fingers in the most receptive position.

OK folks. Let me have it.

fishing user avatarDave P reply : 

No, because I think that by and large your right on the money.

fishing user avatardodgeguy reply : 

i agree totally.my hand palms my baitcaster.all strikes are felt transmitted through the reel seat to the reel and my hand.the blank passes vibrations through the seat better than it does to your fingers directly on the blank.

fishing user avatarGoose52 reply : 

Great post! :thumbsup:

I thought it was just me but I rarely (never) feel anything directly through my fingers. I do have joint and grip problems and just thought I had associated degradation of the nerve endings in my fingers. And I do have a couple of Loomis GLX rods that theoretically should be pretty good on transmitting vibrations.

So, I agree - I am feeling mostly through my hands/grip. This then puts combo balance into discussion as well, especially for tip up presentations.

fishing user avatarMcAlpine reply : 

I agree 100%. This is why I have always bought the lightest, best balanced rig I can get. Even way before it was the "in" thing. The less mass the fish has to move, the more "sensitive" your rod really is. Those guys that try to sell you a sensitive rod because you can feel them flick the end are full of it. A bass does not flick anything. It pulls. The lightest pull you will feel would be by holding nothing but the line. The closest you can get to that 0 additive mass, the best chance you have to feel that pull.

fishing user avatarMcAlpine reply : 

Also, the newest boron-graphite-mega-multiplexed-blend doesn't mean a darn thing if it isn't well balanced.

fishing user avatarLgMouthGambler reply : 

My feel is incorperated to my whole hand as it holds the reel and rod in it.

fishing user avatarflippin and pitchin reply : 

I'm no scientist and certainly not an engineer and can't explain my observations, but, I feel my newer rods do transmit vibration or feel better than what I fished many years ago. The materials are quite different though and more, the design, including reel seats. I had one of the very first Lamiglas boron rod blanks and built a rod with it. I hated that rod. It was to have been THE cutting edge material at the time. Haven't you ever picked up a rod and the blank felt dead ? It was like tapping something on a guitar string verses a wet noodle? Materials, manufacturing processes, design and balance all seem to effect the feel I have with my bait.

Now for the mud. Line type makes a larger difference for me than the rod. Blasphemer !!! The first time I fished flouro I was amazed. Then came tungsten. So many factors. Where does that " feel " translate ? I agree, vibration to the hand. Great stuff.

fishing user avatarSirSnookalot reply : 
  Quote
The term has been beaten so far into our consciousness that we can't help ourselves. We simply will not even consider purchasing a rod that does not scream sensitivity in every conceivable marketing venue.

My biggest asset in fishing is that I'm an idiot. I know nothing of rods, reels, techniques, and have no desire to learn more. I never have and never will buy into the sensitivity issue of rods and won't buy into the concept that the higher price tag of your equipment increases your pleasure, comfortable and smooth operating equipment can come on any ones budget. What increases my pleasure is catching great fish, and that I do it well. Am I great fisherman, not really, just happen to be in a great location, lowly spinning gear is all I need.

Until I joined this forum I had no idea bass fishing was difficult, and so complicated, yet I've been catching them for 60 years on unsensitive and unsophisticated gear and a few lures I can carry in my pocket.

fishing user avatarbasscrusher reply : 

If the "feel" comes through the hand (palm/wrist)...should we start making the reels sensitive, instead of the rod? If you palm a baitcaster, the feel is traveling through that conduit into the hand. (This is really just a rhetorical question, by the way).

fishing user avatarIma Bass Ninja reply : 

Great Post!!...I have always judged sensitivity of a rod by its weight. as one poster said the less mass a fish has to move the easier it would be to tell if there was on on the end of the line. this is not to say that light rods are the end all be all cause a light rod that breaks on the hookset doesn't do anyone any good. so you must find the correct balance between light and durable.

fishing user avatarsmalljaw67 reply : 

You hit on a lot of things here and I agree for the most part. One thing that is very powerful is POS or the power of suggestion, a lot of companies will take a rod that should retail for say 50 bucks and sell it for 200 dollars, but in order to do it it needs to be marketed and "increased sensitivity" is one of the ploys. You may buy one of these and actually feel incesed sensitivity, but is it the rod doing it or is it the in your mind you know it is more snsititive and therefore you focus just a little more and you percieve that first light tick and then it is confirmed, the rod is ultra sensitive. I proved it with a lot of products over the years, I made jigs using eagle claw black pearl finish hooks for guys saying they only use gamakatsu as they are sharper and better than any hook on the market, and at the same time told me eagle claw was total junk. After using the jig and being told it was sporting a new gammy hook the feedback I got was incredible, in fact the guy told me it was the best hook he ever used and was totally floored when I told hime it was an eagle claw hook. The same thing happens with rods, it isn't that when you buy an expensive rod you aren't getting your moneys worth, more often than not what you are paying for is better components and a more refined look and feel,sensitivity is perception. I just got a rod cheap and the spinning version of it is sensitive, to me but it is my perception because the grip feels good to me and my hand placement seems very natural and that coincides with the rod as a whole being sensitive. BTW, the jigs I did the experiment with were free, if someone pays for a jig with a gammy hook, they will indeed get a gammy hook, I gave those out a free test models with the only costs was to let me know what the user thought about the jig.

fishing user avatarJason Penn reply : 

i think with fluoro, pretty much any decent rod will work for me for plastics/jigs as long as it feels comfortable to me. i've got an old 6'6" m daiwa tds glass rod that will rattle your teeth out if you fish a squarebill on it using braid. sensitivity is not even a question there.

fishing user avatarsenile1 reply : 

This was a very good idea for a thread, Gary. I've wondered about this topic as well and I believe you are onto something here. I know there are some rods that have more sensitivity than others but there are a lot of things that go into that and ergonomics could well be a major factor. However, to me, I think the differences in sensitivity are greatly exaggerated in many cases. One rod may be slightly more sensitive than another to me, but to someone else that difference is reported as a huge one. It could be that some just have an intense sense of touch and notice these things more than the rest of us. Or maybe, some are just drinking the proverbial kool-aid provided by the marketing departments.

fishing user avatarGoose52 reply : 
  On 2/10/2012 at 10:20 PM, senile1 said:

This was a very good idea for a thread, Gary. I've wondered about this topic as well and I believe you are onto something here. I know there are some rods that have more sensitivity than others but there are a lot of things that go into that and ergonomics could well be a major factor. However, to me, I think the differences in sensitivity are greatly exaggerated in many cases. One rod may be slightly more sensitive than another to me, but to someone else that difference is reported as a huge one. It could be that some just have an intense sense of touch and notice these things more than the rest of us. Or maybe, some are just drinking the proverbial kool-aid provided by the marketing departments.

Exactly - at least for me. Again, I always thought I just had some sort of diminished ability to pick up the sensitivity differences...and perhaps some people really DO have an increased ability - either through better "touch" or perhaps better concentration/awareness of what's going on with the rod.

I can give two examples of what I CAN feel. I have two 7'mf St. Croix bc rods - one a Premier, one an Avid. I can feel the sensitivity improvement in the Avid over the Premier. Now, when I compare that Avid with a comparable Loomis GLX (MBR842C), I can't really feel any significant improvement. Again, perhaps it's just me...or perhaps this is another confirmation of what's been discussed on the board before that the point of (greatly) diminishing returns on rods is nowadays right around the $180 price point...

And getting back to that Premier, I would bet that that I actually give up very little in the way of true angling success by fishing that rod as my most-used bc rod as compared to my success rate if I used the Avid... :lol:

There are some pretty danged good $100 dollar rods on the market nowadays and I'm not even sure that you need to reach that $180 price point to have the best bang for the buck.

fishing user avatarDelaware Valley Tackle reply : 

IMO the benefit of carbon fiber graphite over fiberglass is the strength to weight ratio. Scrims, resins and processes all factor in as well to put together a high performance rod. If the end result is a more powerful blank at a lower weight, it stands to reason that the recovery speed and hence the ability to transmit feel will improve. "Sensitivity" as well as "balance" are two terms that are over thought, they are part, but only part, of the big picture and are subjective. Perception is reality and each persons perception is different from the next. Long story short, you are right that claims of im proved sensitivity are to a degree unprovable and can be considered puffing by manufacturers.

fishing user avatarJ Francho reply : 

I think Gary has ham hands. Or at least, too much time on his hands. :eyebrows:

But seriously, interesting post. Doesn't change what rods I'm going to use. Just have someone put the rod tip to their voice box and hum. If you can feel it, it's plenty sensitive.

fishing user avatarlmoore reply : 

Great idea for a thread, lots of hard work already put into it.

The 2 main factors in sensitivity of a rod are flexibility and weight, which is were the graphite rating comes in. I 100% agree that there's little to be gained from IM6 vs. IM7, and all that, because that's just a label the company uses. Graphite ratings (tensile modulus) for fishing rods are in the 10's of millions psi, and there's no correlation between the label one compny uses for a rating and the label the next compny uses.

The overall purpose of tensile modulus is a comparison between flexibility and weight. As the rating goes up, a rod of similiar power can be made lighter, and will have slightly higher flexibility. The thing is, even though the rod is lighter and should transmit vibrations better, the increased flexibility serves to dampen the vibrations as they move along the rod, so you don't get the full effect of the decrease in mass. You still gain some sensitivity by using a higher tensile modulus graphite, but it's not as huge of a difference as it might appear due to the flex increase.

Now that I've rambled on about stuff nobody cares about.....I've used some of the best rods in the world and still trust my fingers on the line a LOT more than my fingers on the rod!

fishing user avatarMcAlpine reply : 

Just a little something I was thinking about that really shows an example of what we are talking about here. I am certainly guilty of paying way to much for equipment at times just because I wanted something. However; to this day my favorite spinning rod and what I consider to be my best combination of "Sensitive, strong, good backbone and soft tip" which is what i use for unweighted soft plastic fluke fishing in the top portion of the water collumn is a 20 year old Daiwa Samuri powermesh. I honestly dont even know what it is made out of and if I remember right it cost me around $25-50 at WalMart years ago.

The rod is a medium heavy, but you would never know it by looking at it, thin rod but strong backbone, has a fast tip but soft enough to toss a light bait. However at only 6 ft, with a non-cork light handle the rod is very light and with a medium sized reel balances so well it feels like it weighs nothing. Combine that with a palm swell at the grip and what you get is an extremely well balanced stiff rod with lots of surface area where it connects to my hand. Best dang spinning rod ever.

fishing user avatarcraww reply : 

Great thread. I've wondered about palming baitcasters. 90% of your hand is actually touching the reel, not the rod. I've heard guys mention that reels made predominately of certain materials transmit vibration better...Could it be the lighter magnesium, C6, carbon, etc help you percieve the "pull" better?

fishing user avatarBigMoneyGrip reply : 

What we perceive as sensitivity will come down to surface contact. The more surface, the better the sensitivity. If we take two of the same blanks and use different diameter grips, the one with more surface to hold will feel the best.

I like the "Megaphone Effect" grip that Airrus is using on their new KW Nano Fusion rod. Another thing they are doing is using a "hard" material for the grip. I've often wondered if cork and EVA would damp some of the vibrations of the rod.

I don't know, just my thoughts.

fishing user avatarroadwarrior reply : 

Well, I'm not buying this story, I think we're reading too much into it. I'm not arguing the fact that there is certainly a degree of diminishing return, but sensitivity is not just a matter of perception. Rather than placing the focus on just the materials used in constructing the blank, the taper and action of the rod is of greater significance.

For "moving" presentations the quality of the rod is not as critical as it is for bottom techniques. For treble hooks I want a soft tip and a balanced rig that feels light, whether that is actually the case or not. I don't fish Ugly Sticks or Rhino rods, but perhaps they "will do" for a steady retrieve with a Rat-L-Trap or square bill.

However, when we look at rods for bottom contact, jigs or soft plastics, it's a different ballgame. #1 is balance or the illusion of weightlessness; #2 is power& action; #3 is the quality of the components and craftsmanship. I want a fast or extra fast rod for single hooks, except for live bait. For these techniques. sensitivity is crucial.

On a different note, and as much as I really hate braid, for soft plastics and jigs, swiching to braid might be the answer to improving any equipment you are using. My jig fishing has improved significantly since making the switch.

fishing user avatarHyrule Bass reply : 

i've always thought the sensitivity thing was overrated. Sure there may be differences in the sensitivity of different rods, but in my experiences, its so minimal you almost cant even tell. I've said as much lately that i dont buy into it either. Other people can tell me about their sensitive $100+ rods all day long, i'll just be like "ok" while im outfishing them or doing just as well as them with my ugly stiks and other cheap shakespeare rods.

Also, i never really understood those ugly split grip rods i see all the time. i hate the feel of them. Whats the point of having a split grip handle if youre holding the rod up by the reel and palming the reel? doesnt make sense to me. please dont tell me its a sensitivity thing, as your hand is above the split grip when holding the rod...

fishing user avatarHyrule Bass reply : 
  On 2/10/2012 at 11:56 PM, roadwarrior said:

Well, I'm not buying this story, I think we're reading too much into it. I'm not arguing the fact that there is certainly a degree of diminishing return, but sensitivity is not just a matter of perception. Rather than placing the focus on just the materials used in constructing the blank, the taper and action of the rod is of greater significance.

For "moving" presentations the quality of the rod is not as critical as it is for bottom techniques. For treble hooks I want a soft tip and a balanced rig that feels light, whether that is actually the case or not. I don't fish Ugly Sticks or Rhino rods, but perhaps they "will do" for a steady retrieve with a Rat-L-Trap or square bill.

However, when we look at rods for bottom contact, jigs or soft plastics, it's a different ballgame. #1 is balance or the illusion of weightlessness; #2 is power& action; #3 is the quality of the components and craftsmanship. I want a fast or extra fast rod for single hooks, except for live bait. For these techniques. sensitivity is crucial.

On a different note, and as much as I really hate braid, for soft plastics and jigs, swiching to braid might be the answer to improving any equipment you are using. My jig fishing has improved significantly since making the switch.

the thing is, i dont really care about any of this stuff as i catch plenty of fish on my cheap "non-sensitive" rods. all i need to feel is the bite, not the bottom. why does anyone need to feel the bottom so bad, especially if you got electronics to tell you whats on the bottom?

fishing user avatarlmoore reply : 
  On 2/10/2012 at 11:56 PM, Red Earth said:

i've always thought the sensitivity thing was overrated. Sure there may be differences in the sensitivity of different rods, but in my experiences, its so minimal you almost cant even tell. I've said as much lately that i dont buy into it either. Other people can tell me about their sensitive $100+ rods all day long, i'll just be like "ok" while im outfishing them or doing just as well as them with my ugly stiks and other cheap shakespeare rods.

Also, i never really understood those ugly split grip rods i see all the time. i hate the feel of them. Whats the point of having a split grip handle if youre holding the rod up by the reel and palming the reel? doesnt make sense to me. please dont tell me its a sensitivity thing, as your hand is above the split grip when holding the rod...

  On 2/11/2012 at 12:25 AM, Red Earth said:

the thing is, i dont really care about any of this stuff as i catch plenty of fish on my cheap "non-sensitive" rods. all i need to feel is the bite, not the bottom. why does anyone need to feel the bottom so bad, especially if you got electronics to tell you whats on the bottom?

Post 1, can't tell difference in sensitivity.

Post 2, can't feel the bottom.

:Idontknow:

The new electroncis go a long way, but I find the more in-tuned I am with what's going on on the other end of my line, the better I fish(regarding contact baits obviously). I've had times fishing where the best way to get a bit was to pull a jig along a sandy bottom until I hit a rock line, pop it over the first rock, and let it sit. The fishing were sitting right on that change in bottom content. You would be able to see the change was there on your electronics, but you'd never be able to tell if your bait was there or not if you can't feel the bottom. All it does is increase your efficiency.

fishing user avatarsmalljaw67 reply : 
  On 2/10/2012 at 11:56 PM, Red Earth said:

i've always thought the sensitivity thing was overrated. Sure there may be differences in the sensitivity of different rods, but in my experiences, its so minimal you almost cant even tell. I've said as much lately that i dont buy into it either. Other people can tell me about their sensitive $100+ rods all day long, i'll just be like "ok" while im outfishing them or doing just as well as them with my ugly stiks and other cheap shakespeare rods.

Also, i never really understood those ugly split grip rods i see all the time. i hate the feel of them. Whats the point of having a split grip handle if youre holding the rod up by the reel and palming the reel? doesnt make sense to me. please dont tell me its a sensitivity thing, as your hand is above the split grip when holding the rod...

Split grips are done for 2 reasons, the first and foremost reason is cosmetic, it gives the rod a modern look and while you probably don't care too much with how your rod looks there are other who do and even try to match up reels and rods that look good together. The second reason is to shave weight off the rod, weight is the focus point now as you can see every manufacturer is making light weight reels, split grip rods with micro guides, and I know they claim you get better casting with the use of micros the fact remains it was done more or less to reduce weight. Most good rods are under 5oz with a great deal under 4oz.

fishing user avatarcraww reply : 

While we're on semantics lol...

Keeping the thought in regards to the "pull" of a fish biting, dragging up against a stump, etc. You could argue that a high end ultra light is the most sensitive rod there is (the TT crew seems to think so also). With that said if everything were apples to apples in action, components, etc, would a heavier powered rod be LESS sensitive than a lighter counterpart? I'm sure as far as bass gear goes it isnt drastic. But I think it would at least transmit lighter "pulls" or bites better.

fishing user avatarJ Francho reply : 

There guys that look at the tip of their rod to "feel" the bite by seeing the tip shake. These guys like braid, and soft tip actions. Others can feel the bump in their hands, or see the bow in the line hop. Those guys like stout rods and fluoro. These are generalizations, but after a couple years teaching fishing, you pick up on these differences. You pick the gear that suits your style.

fishing user avatarMcAlpine reply : 

Franco, that makes sense. My observations above are based upon my style which is generally tight line and I like to feel a bass pick a bait up in it's mouth.

fishing user avatarHyrule Bass reply : 
  On 2/11/2012 at 12:59 AM, lmoore said:

Post 1, can't tell difference in sensitivity.

Post 2, can't feel the bottom.

:Idontknow:

The new electroncis go a long way, but I find the more in-tuned I am with what's going on on the other end of my line, the better I fish(regarding contact baits obviously). I've had times fishing where the best way to get a bit was to pull a jig along a sandy bottom until I hit a rock line, pop it over the first rock, and let it sit. The fishing were sitting right on that change in bottom content. You would be able to see the change was there on your electronics, but you'd never be able to tell if your bait was there or not if you can't feel the bottom. All it does is increase your efficiency.

first, youre kinda twisting my words there into something theyre not. i said the difference in sensitivity is very minimal in my opinion. basically it comes down to this, i cant justify spending $100+ or more on a rod because its "more sensitive" than my $30 dollar rod. Since the difference in sensitivity is so minimal to me, i'm going to save my money on rods and spend it elsewhere...

second, i didnt say i couldnt feel the bottom. just that i dont really need to, all i need to feel is the bite. i can feel the bottom just fine with my cheaper rods. i can tell when im going through a grass bed or a rock pile, etc. and if im going up hill or down hill over humps and all that stuff, but ultimately it doesnt tell me anything useful other than there is structure there.

look, for me, fishing is not rocket science and i dont make it rocket science like some people do. i have no need to over-complicate things and worry about minuscule details. i dont go by the 'book' like some people. if i was fishing for money it might be different, i might would study things more down to the finest details. but i dont fish tournaments. i fish for peace of mind and relaxation, a $200 reel on a $150 dollar rod isnt going to give me those things. if you can justify that kind of expensive gear then good for you, but i cant justify it. i've been fishing all my life and i never needed a high dollar rod or reel to catch a fish, nor did my parents or grandparents...

and another thing about the sensitivity of high dollar rods, how come those guys on tv using them cant feel the bite when the underwater camera man is yelling at them to set the hook?

  On 2/11/2012 at 1:20 AM, smalljaw67 said:

Split grips are done for 2 reasons, the first and foremost reason is cosmetic, it gives the rod a modern look and while you probably don't care too much with how your rod looks there are other who do and even try to match up reels and rods that look good together. The second reason is to shave weight off the rod, weight is the focus point now as you can see every manufacturer is making light weight reels, split grip rods with micro guides, and I know they claim you get better casting with the use of micros the fact remains it was done more or less to reduce weight. Most good rods are under 5oz with a great deal under 4oz.

thanks for explaining that, i always wondered about that. the weight thing did cross my mind, but thats it...

fishing user avatarheatmiser reply : 

To me I feel switching to braid has been the largest factor in terms of increased sensitivity and "feeling" what is going on at the end of the line. With no stretch in the braid, I am looking for a fishing rod with a softer tip and slightly more moderate action than what I used before to help prevent pulling hooks. Setting proper drag has also become more important as well. Lastly, balance is very important as I feel the lighter I can grip my rig, the more I can feel what is going on. Just my $.02

fishing user avatarlmoore reply : 
  On 2/11/2012 at 4:33 AM, Red Earth said:

second, i didnt say i couldnt feel the bottom. just that i dont really need to, all i need to feel is the bite. i can feel the bottom just fine with my cheaper rods. i can tell when im going through a grass bed or a rock pile, etc. and if im going up hill or down hill over humps and all that stuff, but ultimately it doesnt tell me anything useful other than there is structure there.

You're right, I misunderstood your second post.

I would disagree that feeling the structure doesn't tell you anything useful. You outfish your buddies and their high dollar rods while feeling the structure, is it possible that the reasoning is you're outfishing them is because you feel structure? There's a lot more that goes into sensitiity than the price you pay for a rod.

It's quite possible you've never missed a fish with your rods, it's also quite possible you've missed one and never know it because you coudn't feel it. If that fish that get's missed is a potential tournament winner, it makes sense for tournamet fishermen to pay the extra for the rod that lets them feel that 1 more fish. When you're fishing just for fun and relaxation, the cost of a higher rod might not make sense for the "potential" of catching one more fish, that makes perfect sense.

fishing user avatarSirSnookalot reply : 

Red Earth said he does not fish tournaments, just fishes for fun, same with me and to be honest if I miss a fish.........BIG DEAL, I'll just catch another. The attitudes of some of amateur fisherman than fish low level tournaments are condescending towards recreational fishermen, that don't participate in tournaments. I highly doubt they're any better than a serious recreational fisherman.

fishing user avatarJ Francho reply : 

I must be weird, I fish tournaments for fun and relaxation. When you win, the money is nice, too. Though it's more about the competition and sportsmanship.

Wouldn't know about the bites I didn't know about, but missing the bites I did know about kind of sucks. But, it's incentive to pay better attention.

fishing user avatartholmes reply : 
  On 2/10/2012 at 4:52 PM, SirSnookalot said:

My biggest asset in fishing is that I'm an idiot. I know nothing of rods, reels, techniques, and have no desire to learn more. I never have and never will buy into the sensitivity issue of rods and won't buy into the concept that the higher price tag of your equipment increases your pleasure, comfortable and smooth operating equipment can come on any ones budget. What increases my pleasure is catching great fish, and that I do it well. Am I great fisherman, not really, just happen to be in a great location, lowly spinning gear is all I need.

Until I joined this forum I had no idea bass fishing was difficult, and so complicated, yet I've been catching them for 60 years on unsensitive and unsophisticated gear and a few lures I can carry in my pocket.

Couldn't have said it better myself!

Great post sir.

Tom

fishing user avatarHyrule Bass reply : 
  On 2/11/2012 at 4:52 AM, lmoore said:

You're right, I misunderstood your second post.

I would disagree that feeling the structure doesn't tell you anything useful. You outfish your buddies and their high dollar rods while feeling the structure, is it possible that the reasoning is you're outfishing them is because you feel structure? There's a lot more that goes into sensitiity than the price you pay for a rod.

It's quite possible you've never missed a fish with your rods, it's also quite possible you've missed one and never know it because you coudn't feel it. If that fish that get's missed is a potential tournament winner, it makes sense for tournamet fishermen to pay the extra for the rod that lets them feel that 1 more fish. When you're fishing just for fun and relaxation, the cost of a higher rod might not make sense for the "potential" of catching one more fish, that makes perfect sense.

well, i dont always outfish my buddies all the time lol, i dont even make it a competitive thing between me and people i fish with. but its hard not to take note of someone having a good day or bad day, including myself. the most competitive we might get is something like a dollar for first fish. Also, im pretty sure ive missed a fish i never felt bite, im sure we all have at some point, im not worried about that. if i am missing an exorbitant amount of fish that i do feel bite, well, then maybe i will rethink my current position.

What i disagree with there, is that a higher dollar rod gives me the "potential" of catching a fish anymore than a cheap rod. i would tend to believe me catching a fish has to do with being in the right place, at the right time, with the right presentation. but also, you did remind me that feeling the bottom is an important part of finding a pattern. thanks for the discussion...

  On 2/11/2012 at 5:12 AM, SirSnookalot said:

Red Earth said he does not fish tournaments, just fishes for fun, same with me and to be honest if I miss a fish.........BIG DEAL, I'll just catch another. The attitudes of some of amateur fisherman than fish low level tournaments are condescending towards recreational fishermen, that don't participate in tournaments. I highly doubt they're any better than a serious recreational fisherman.

I agree with this. if i miss a fish, big deal, ill catch another, just like you said. and if i dont happen to catch another, oh well, ill get them next time. and i dont cross it very often, but i dont like the condescending attitudes some people get about fishing either. i will fish my way and you fish your way, im going to enjoy it and i hope you do too.

fishing user avatarPackard reply : 

Unless you have money issues, there isn't a problem spending some cash on rods. It seems like nowadays you can spend right around $100 for all the rod you will need. Even some top pros are fishing with $100 rods and reels. Yeah, there is more sensitivity in the top of the line rods if you want (and can afford) to pay for it. I will admit that I can not feel a darn thing fishing with an Ugly Stik tough but if I could spend $30 and get the same feel out of my better rods then I probably would. I like to spend my money on baits more than rods, reels, and lines. Curse the bait monkey!

fishing user avatarNCLifetimer reply : 

Responding to the OP, i agree that the design of the rod has alot to do with the "feel". I have one rod with a resin handle with a reel that i can palm very comfortable, the combo is balanced well, rod is very light, and all of this equates to a scary level of sensative. Blank material is important, but that sensative must be carried to the parts of the body that are in contact with the rod, which is usually the reel. Good post and observations sir.

I also believe the weight and balance of a rod has alot to do with the ability to "feel", with less weight and better balance equaling better "feel".

Ofcourse a super high end 1oz rod isn't necessary. Equipment is like anything else materialistic, its personal preference. I for one value the increased "feel" for certain situations while fishing, and I don't mind paying a little extra to gain the feel.

fishing user avatarPete-K reply : 

If I can't feel everything the bait is hitting, I sure can't feel the fish. Now those Fish in West Va may kill the bait all the time. But here our Small Mouth bass most time, you do not feel a hit. Its just pressure. Same with my other fishing, I out fish most people evey trip if there using those old broom sticks that only allow them to cast and reel. Not feeling everthing that bait is doing.

But that is what is great about our sport and country. You have the right to use what you want, thus I have the right to use what I want and If I out fish you with a better rod. Well it just may be I'm a better fisherman then you . Or the rod did it.

As long as we both love what were doing, It does not matter about how much our tackle cost.

fishing user avatartracker01 reply : 

Well,,,,,,, I used to fish Tournaments. In my head I wanted to feel that tick, that pick-up, that what ever something was happening at the end of my line. I used those $200.00 plus rods and it gave me some added confidence in dragging that lizard across the bottom in 20 feet of water. Now I am retired and guess what, I still want to feel that stuff happening at the end of my line. I now go fishing for fun and part of the fun factor is having nice gear. Could I catch more fish with a $100.00 rod, maybe! When I hook up the boat to go fishing, I want to catch fish, be it a tour. or for fun. If spending a few extra bucks on a rod (in my mind) makes me a better fisherman, than so be it. Back to ghoti's, original post. Very interesting read. Next time I am on a pile of fish I will have to pay more attention as to where I am feeling what.

fishing user avatar3dees reply : 

awesome post.the thing is that it's not only the rods. is a 500.00 reel really that much better than a 100.00 reel. how about those 20.00 crankbaits. I will never believe they will catch anymore fish than my Bandit or Strike king baits. it's all about sucking every last dollar from the fishermen, and until we stop buying these overpriced toys it won't stop. 70,000.00 for a two man boat? are you kidding me. after 35 years of glass, I bought a tin last spring, and guess what? I caught just as many fish as I

did before. there have been many improvments in fishing equiptment over the years, but it seems like every new manufacturer of rods, reels, tackle, etc. has to put a premium price on it so everyone will think it is so much better than anything else. many will defend thier high priced equiptment because they need to justify wasting money simply to have " the best". don't mean to offend anyone, but I have friends who admitted to me that they overpaid for equiptment that did'nt really improve thier fishing much.

fishing user avatarroadwarrior reply : 

Some guys collect coins, stamps or sports cars they never drive!

Other guys collect fishing equipment.

fishing user avataraavery2 reply : 

Great discussion, lots of great points made. I will add this, IMO the actual sensitivity of a rod has nothing to do with balance, balance only effects perceived sensitivity. Vibration propagation, or the speed at which vibration can travel through the rod and reach your fingertips is what makes one rod feel more sensitive than the other, in general the stiffer and lighter the rod the faster the vibration. The challenge to rod mfg's is to find a material that is light and rigid but still has enough flex to function as a fishing rod without breakage.

A quick study on the way the human body interprets sense of touch will tell you that the parts of the body that have the most receptors are the tips of the fingers, the lips and parts of the reproductive organs. Since I don't fish with my thingy or mouth, I guess I will continue to trust my fingertips on the rod blank.

Fuel for the fire.

fishing user avatarSirSnookalot reply : 

IMO the line is the key for feeling, and I prefer braid. The argument I would make for using a better rod is more backbone on a lighter more comfortable rod, I do believe the law of diminishing returns becomes evident. Many bass are pulled out of heavy cover, the weeds are the reason for a heavier stronger rod, not the fish ( exception is needing a heavier rod to throw heavier lures). A better quality rod is most noticeable in open water fighting a fish where you can actually feel the muscles of the fish.

fishing user avatarDiggy reply : 

The main thing that stepped up the sensitivity for me in the biggest way was using braid and better line, even on the crappiest rods. I do buy better looking and supposedly better functioning equipment to maintain my sexiness while fishing so even if I get skunked, I look good doing it.

fishing user avatarTrippyJai reply : 

Great post... it was a very interesting read.

I'm a line watcher so most of my strikes comes from something I detect different in the line. I have low and high end rods, but the most important thing for me is balance. When a rod feels balance, it just feels more sensitive. If I put a heavy reel on a light rod, it would take away from the sensitivity. To be honest, I can't really tell you how 1 rod is more sensitive than another. Rarely does a rod transmit the bite to my fingers, it would have to move the line before it gets to the rod. It won't matter how sensitivity a rod is when a fish hits on slack line, I bet I won't feel it even on the GLX.

fishing user avatarSirSnookalot reply : 

^^^^^

This makes sense to me, the lure or bait is connected to the line, when a fish bites you're going to feel it thru the line first. Lighter and better balanced combos are more comfortable to fish with, no argument there.

fishing user avatarJason Penn reply : 
  On 2/13/2012 at 4:28 PM, SirSnookalot said:

^^^^^

This makes sense to me, the lure or bait is connected to the line, when a fish bites you're going to feel it thru the line first. Lighter and better balanced combos are more comfortable to fish with, no argument there.

that's why fluorocarbon is crucial for me. maybe it's all in my head, but i just seem to lose contact with braid.

hopefully one of these days someone will come out with a hi-vis braid that does actually work for me. i haven't tried the spiderwire fluoro-braid just because my eyes can't see green line. if it works as advertised, it could possibly be the perfect line for me in a hi-vis color.

fishing user avatarJiggen reply : 

As far as rods go I do not feel much difference if any between my GLX, Perfecta or my Crucial rods. I think once you get rods down in weight the playing field gets a lot closer then everyone realizes regardless of cost. Modulus ratings mean little to me. How you build the rod can make up greatly for a lesser quality blank. Sensitivity is an equation. You have a lure, line, rod, reel and lastly yourself. The only variable is the angler and also the weakest link. Jim

fishing user avatarPinoy_Basser reply : 

Hi to all,

Its my first time to share my thoughts. Please be gentle. :pray:

First of all what is Sensitivity ?

The closest meaning we can compare to rods is in the field of electronics.

From Wikipedia site:

Sensitivity In electronics:

The sensitivity of an electronic device, such as a communications system receiver, or detection device, such as a PIN diode, is the minimum magnitude of input signal required to produce a specified output signal having a specified signal-to-noise ratio, or other specified criteria.

Sensitivity is sometimes improperly used as a synonym for responsivity.

Sensitivity can be measured:

Microphones

The sensitivity of a microphone is usually expressed as the sound field strength in decibels (dB) relative to 1 V/Pa (Pa = N/m2) or as the transfer factor in millivolts per pascal (mV/Pa) into an open circuit or into a 1 kilohm load.

Loudspeakers

The sensitivity of a loudspeaker is usually expressed as dB / 2.83 VRMS at 1 metre. This is not the same as the electrical efficiency; see Efficiency vs Sensitivity.

Hydrophones

The sensitivity of a hydrophone is usually expressed as dB re 1 V/µPa.

So do we express/measure a fishing rod’s sensitivity ???

IM6, IM7 Modulus, tonnage are descriptions of the materials not their sensitivity

If rod makers claim theirs is more sensitive than others then they must have a stat sheet of all the competitor’s rods to make that claim or to be able to produce a more sensitive rod. So logically there should be an existing stat sheet right ?

It would be better if major rod manufactures to share that standard, quantitative, calculative or whatever proof on how to measure a rod’s sensitivity. Like an industry standard chart. Similar to ABEC standard is to bearings. If they do then, the issue of rod sensitivity is valid since we have a way to measure it.

IMHO,

The only TRUE part of the system that we can see that sensitivity is truly present is the angler himself.

As we go to another definition: of Sensitivity:

the capacity of an organism or sense organ to respond to stimulation (stimuli eg. vibrations).

Fishing rods DON’T have any Sense organs or any sensors that respond to the input signal it receives or does shimano have already invented a DC rod already ?

If we remove the angler - If the the rod receives vibrations it just vibrates. If it receives a pull it just bends to the direction of the pull aside from that there is no additional responce from that signal. It reflects the transmited the signals from the source.

Basically we can describe a fishing rigs to or like a fishing communication system.

The Fish, Structure, Lures = Source/Input Signal (Vibration, Hit, structure)

The Line, Rods = Transmission medium for the Source/Input Signals (Stimuli) to travel from the source to the receiver.

Hand/Angler = Receiver, Sensor or the one required to produce a specified output signal (response) having a specified signal-to-noise ratio (Is it a bite or just a snag ? should I do a Hookset ?). Thus sensitivity is highly required in the anglers part.

No matter how faint the signal coming from the rod or line, if your hand/angler is sensitive enough to detect those faint signals thus you have a good response time to detect those bites.

Just wanted to share

Thanx

fishing user avatarislandbass reply : 

Welcome Pinoy Basser! Well written. I agree with you that in the end it boils down to the angler as the primary variable. Shoot... Even an ugly stick feels sensitive in my hands.

fishing user avatarTeam9nine reply : 
  On 2/12/2012 at 11:46 AM, aavery2 said:

Great discussion, lots of great points made. I will add this, IMO the actual sensitivity of a rod has nothing to do with balance, balance only effects perceived sensitivity. Vibration propagation, or the speed at which vibration can travel through the rod and reach your fingertips is what makes one rod feel more sensitive than the other, in general the stiffer and lighter the rod the faster the vibration. The challenge to rod mfg's is to find a material that is light and rigid but still has enough flex to function as a fishing rod without breakage.

A quick study on the way the human body interprets sense of touch will tell you that the parts of the body that have the most receptors are the tips of the fingers, the lips and parts of the reproductive organs. Since I don't fish with my thingy or mouth, I guess I will continue to trust my fingertips on the rod blank.

Fuel for the fire.

Bingo! The only thing I'd add is that line type can definitely make a difference in combination with the above....and clarify that it's the fingertips with the most mechanoreceptors, not the whole finger/hand.

-T9

fishing user avatarlmoore reply : 
  On 2/11/2012 at 5:12 AM, SirSnookalot said:

Red Earth said he does not fish tournaments, just fishes for fun, same with me and to be honest if I miss a fish.........BIG DEAL, I'll just catch another. The attitudes of some of amateur fisherman than fish low level tournaments are condescending towards recreational fishermen, that don't participate in tournaments. I highly doubt they're any better than a serious recreational fisherman.

Correct, which is why I made the comparison between him (or anyone fishing just for fun) and someone fishing a tournament. When I'm just fishing for fun, I don't really care if I miss a fish either (let's be honest, I do a little :) ).

EDIT I definitely wasn't trying to say tournament fishing is more important, either. Recreational fishing is the backbone of our sport, and any tournament angler who thinks he's better than people who just fish because they enjoy it, needs to realize there would be a very real threat of losing our sport, if not for it being one of the more popular hobbies in the world.

All in all, I definitely agree that the line is the most important factor. The difference in a $20 rod and a $200 rod is much less than the difference betwwen a high-stretch mono and braid, IMO.

fishing user avatarjignfule reply : 

i have enjoyed this post

fishing user avatarJ Francho reply : 
  Quote
The attitudes of some of amateur fisherman than fish low level tournaments are condescending towards recreational fishermen, that don't participate in tournaments.

And the same can be said of some recreational fisherman. Can't paint them all with the same brush - there are jerks in every walk.

fishing user avatarBrASSmonkey reply : 

While I do agree that a lot of the marketing hype out there regarding new rods is just that - hype; I have done my research to come to my own conclusions and develop my own opinions of what I feel is a sensitive and comfortable rod to fish with. I am not going to argue for or against the merits of any manufacturers claims since it appears to be obvious that everyone has a different perception of what sensitivity is; how to gauge sensitivity; and what level of sensitivity is needed for fishing. I think it can be concluded that each person will come to their own conclusions as to whether the added pricetag of advanced materials and engineering, refined design and manufacturing are worth it.

However, in the end, I pay what I pay for my fishing gear for one reason above all - personal enjoyment. I know that I am not a great angler, otherwise I would be doing it professionally. I know that spending more on my gear may or may not allow me to put more fish in the boat over the course of a season. Frankly, I am mostly a C&R fisherman; so the number of fish I catch in a year has no real impact on my life.

What does have an impact is how happy I am when I am fishing. I buy/make mid-higher end gear because it makes me happy to own, build, modifyand use the gear I do. My fishing experience is improved because of it, and that is all that matters. I have multiple rod and reel combos, boxes full of lures, a boat, etc. not because it helps me catch more fish necessarily (literally speaking it can't because we have a 1 line limit where I fish), but because it makes me happy. And if a 'more sensitive' combo makes you happy because you think it gives you an edge, then more power to you.

fishing user avatarCharles B. reply : 

As both a low-level tournament and recreational fisherman, i will say that I've thought about this subject much. I say.....to each his or her own! All my gear is Shakespeare. It's affordable, and gets the job done. I do think that it comes down to more so the knowledge of the fisherman, than the equipment, overall. The anglers you see on TV are all fishing "stocked" waters, or, they are fishing the most productive bodies of water in the nation, which all of us are not privy to, of course. when the bite is on, you can catch "em with a stick and a piece of twine!!..When the bite is off, it's off, period. And if you're not on a great body of water for fishing, you will most likely not even get a nibble. Fish have their own timetable and agenda, so most of the time, all we can do is is use our knowledge as best we can, and of course much of the time, it's guesswork and trial and error. If one wishes to spend a "boatload"(sorry, LOL!) of money on expensive stuff, well, hey, go for it. Whatever trips your trigger. And we all know the old saying, "lures catch more fisherman than fish", and that goes for rods and reels as well. So, use whatever works for you, and good fishing to all you!!!.....Charles.

fishing user avatarCharles B. reply : 

Oh, in addition to my previous post, I will admit that some of this may have to do with the type of fishing you do. I am not a "finesse" fisherman. For me, it's just too boring. Chunk and wind, baby!! I catch most of my fish(bass, trout, crappie, "gills) on Rooster Tails, jointed cranks, spinnerbaits and the like. Perhaps, if you do much finesse fishing, a St Croix, Loomis, etc, may make a difference for you, but for myself, because of my type of fishing, most likely those rods would just be a waste of my money. Again, good fishing!!!

fishing user avatar.ghoti. reply : 

Since this thread got resurrected I have a couple of thoughts.

I'm glad somebody brought up the fact that the fingers are one the body's most sensitive areas. This was the basis for my initial hypothesis. I started with the idea that all signals were processed through the fingers, and wanted to determine which of the fingers was the most sensitive.

The short back-story is; I have a new reel seat design I've been working on, and thought I might modify the design to provide more blank access to the minor digits; if they indeed proved to be the best parts for the job. That did not prove to be the case, so it's back to the drawing board.

But not before some additional research.

My new hypothesis is the wrist's ability to detect movement is the true basis for what we refer to as sensitivity, in this application. I'm going to test that this year.

fishing user avatarAlpster reply : 

Just to add more confusion to all the theories.....I have been building custom rods for years and have always quietly smiled when using exposed blank reel seats. As though there is something magic about being able to touch the surface of the rod blank. I can tell you that when a reel seat is properly fitted and glued, where vibration transmission is concerned, it becomes a part of the blank. There is no vibration imparted to the blank that can escape the reel seat when it's installed properly. The difference in touching the blank surface and a properly attached reel seat are at best imperceptable. Any vibration felt in any rod blank when fishing must be transmitted, in this order, through lure, line, guides and the reel. The rod blank is the last to know, which causes me to lean toward Ghoti's theory that a reel might be the best place to "feel" a bite or the bottom. When fishing with tight line techniques, I feel the bite with my whole hand. With slack or semi slack techniques, of course, I'm a line watcher. IMHO, the best case for spending more money on light, well balanced rods is day long fishing comfort and specific lures/techniques. "Feeling the bite" is way down on my list of reasons for great rods and I have a bunch of high end rods. Fishing for 10 or 12 hours without feeling like I rowed a boat all day is much more important to me. But then again, I'm not a real "sensitive" guy. LOL

Ronnie

fishing user avatarhatrix reply : 

Sensitivity I guess is up for debate on what is better. Some rod I can actually hear the rattles in baits all the way through the line and rod.

fishing user avatarSirSnookalot reply : 

I like what Alpster said. I fish artificial lures as well as live and cut bait. The only times I never feel a bite is fishing cut bait, I do it in the ocean but I don't think freshwater would be different. Every single time I'm out fish pick a hook clean of bait without you ever knowing it, happens constantly each outing. Both little bait stealing fish do it as well as some of the larger fish like kingfish, the size of the fish isn't all the relevant, braid, mono, hi end or low end rod, you just don't always feel the bite. What I do feel is the line getting taut just before it moves, pretty much the same kind of feel I get when fishing jigs for bass. Since bass inhale a bait, they don't pick a jig apart, you feel the fish as it starts to move. I don't believe they stop, sit down at the dinner table and dine, they inhale and move. At least that's my belief and I'm sticking to it. I think the rod plays a minimal part in detection and experience plays the major role. If fishing moving lures, strike detection is that much easier.

I select my rods for comfort, construction, and how well they handle my target species (which I don't know until I've bought the rod, and I've made the wrong choice too), sensitivity is barely a concern.

Hope I explained it well, I know what mean, but not sure how it reads.

fishing user avatarJ Francho reply : 

I am crazy, or do I "hear" the bite? I don't mean hear the fish biting, but hear the tap through the inside, like through my bones to my ear. Anyone else get this? I'm probably not describing it right.

fishing user avatarStasher1 reply : 
  On 5/3/2012 at 8:33 PM, J Francho said:

I am crazy...

That's like saying Elton John is slightly effeminate or the Pope is kinda religious. I'm just sayin'... ;)

fishing user avatarROCbass reply : 
  On 5/3/2012 at 8:33 PM, J Francho said:

I am crazy, or do I "hear" the bite? I don't mean hear the fish biting, but hear the tap through the inside, like through my bones to my ear. Anyone else get this? I'm probably not describing it right.

It sounds like you're describing bone conduction, where the mastoid bone (bone on your skull right behind your ear) is vibrated, which vibrates the cochlea. If the strike is hard enough to travel through your arms and vibrate the mastoid bone, it's possible that you could hear the strike. Next time I go fishing I'll try to see if I notice this myself.

fishing user avatarJ Francho reply : 

They're usually those bites that you wouldn't need any "extra help" detecting. Like a bite on the drop. I don't know if it makes a difference, but I am more than 40% loss in my right ear.

fishing user avatarJ Francho reply : 
  On 5/3/2012 at 8:48 PM, Stasher1 said:

That's like saying Elton John is slightly effeminate or the Pope is kinda religious. I'm just sayin'... ;)

I mistyped, lmbo. Should've typed, "Am I crazy..." Which opens just as many doors.

fishing user avatarROCbass reply : 

The extent of my knowledge on this subject is a couple of psychology classes on sensation and perception so I'm no expert, but whether or not hearing loss would affect bone conduction depends on the cause of the loss. If it was caused by damage to the eardrum, inus, malleus, or stapes, bone conduction would not be affected in most cases from what I understand. These structures physically transmit vibrations in the air from the ear canal to the cochlea but are not involved in bone conduction, which is a direct link from the mastoid to the cochlea. If the cause of the loss is damage to the cochlea or the sensory neurons going from the ear to the part of the brain that processes sound, bone conduction might be affected. It is also possible that because of your hearing loss, the part of your brain which normally process auditory information is getting less of this and is occupying itself with other tasks to make up for the loss, such as processing tactile vibrations. This might cause you to perceive some of these vibrations as sounds. This is an interesting subject with lots of possibilities. I wish I had more than a rudimentary knowledge of how all the possible factors were interrelated.

fishing user avatarJ Francho reply : 

That makes sense, it was a tympanic membrane injury. When I "hear it" it's like when you put ear plugs in for shooting. All of a sudden you hear every joint creak as you move, and every gurgle in belly, lol.

fishing user avatarBassn Blvd reply : 
  On 2/13/2012 at 2:07 PM, TrippyJai said:

Great post... it was a very interesting read.

I'm a line watcher so most of my strikes comes from something I detect different in the line. I have low and high end rods, but the most important thing for me is balance. When a rod feels balance, it just feels more sensitive. If I put a heavy reel on a light rod, it would take away from the sensitivity. To be honest, I can't really tell you how 1 rod is more sensitive than another. Rarely does a rod transmit the bite to my fingers, it would have to move the line before it gets to the rod. It won't matter how sensitivity a rod is when a fish hits on slack line, I bet I won't feel it even on the GLX.

I can tell you 100%, without a doubt that I can feel a "tap,tap" or "tic" on SLACK line AND facing into the wind using the NRX series of Loomis and mono.

fishing user avatarGreenstealth reply : 

I feel ticks on slack line all the time, a lot when I'm drifting on my boat toward my cast. I never actually paid attention to where exactly I was perceiving the bite. I will have to really try to pay attention and get back to this thread.

fishing user avatarWookieeJedi reply : 

I have what is considered to be a "catastrophic" cervical spine injury. As a result, I have limited sensation in my fingers and toes, yet I am still able to detect strikes while fishing. I always thought it was maybe a muscle memory thing, but if the sensation is more in the wrist, it would explain a lot. It would also explain why I have started to use spinning gear more, that's definitely all wrist.

fishing user avatarBASSclary reply : 
  On 5/3/2012 at 8:33 PM, J Francho said:

I am crazy, or do I "hear" the bite? I don't mean hear the fish biting, but hear the tap through the inside, like through my bones to my ear. Anyone else get this? I'm probably not describing it right.

I know what your talking about. I think its because when I feel a bite, or a fish pick up my bait, my brain automatically thinks of the noise I use when describing a bite. Like tum thum thump. or whatever it is. I think its a mind thing. Unless we're talking about two different things...

Every noise is just vibrations though. Maybe the vibrations are going through our bones and into the ear.

fishing user avatarJ Francho reply : 

It's not a mind thing, something I noticed years ago night fishing.

fishing user avatarflippin Dan reply : 

I hung a good fish yesterday and my partner asked me if she hit it hard or just picked it up and I replied I really don't know. I know it may sound weird but I can't remember feeling anything and I set the hook before I realized what was happening. Some advice I read on here was that it is more important to know how it feels when you are not getting a bite and anything different set the hook. It is kind of hard to explain but I can't remember feeling a bite yesterday and boated 5 fish on plastics. I think more important than equipment, and obviously I have cheaper equipment to say that, is time on the water.

fishing user avatarflippin Dan reply : 

just wanted to add that every time I set the hook there was a fish there. I did not jerk 40 times on 5 bites.

fishing user avatarMichael DiNardo reply : 
  On 5/3/2012 at 8:33 PM, J Francho said:

I am crazy, or do I "hear" the bite? I don't mean hear the fish biting, but hear the tap through the inside, like through my bones to my ear. Anyone else get this? I'm probably not describing it right.

I know exactly what you mean by this and I totally agree. I agree with those that say the line makes the most differnce in feeling the bite.

Mike

fishing user avatarDiggy reply : 

always an interesting read

fishing user avatarkickerfish1 reply : 

A six page thread is back from the dead! Let the fun continue...

fishing user avatarroadwarrior reply : 
  On 5/3/2012 at 8:33 PM, J Francho said:
I am crazy, or do I "hear" the bite? I don't mean hear the fish biting, but hear the tap through the inside, like through my bones to my ear. Anyone else get this? I'm probably not describing it right.

I think you described "it" perfectly! When I switched my jig rig to braided line, the touch was amplified.

Braid has made a significant  difference in my jig fishing. I am still experimenting with a fluorocarbon

leader vs. direct tie.

fishing user avatarlmoore reply : 

Boy was I feeling argumentative when I posted in this last spring?!? Hard to tell I'd been cooped up inside all winter. :/ Some of what I posted was hard to read without flinching....sorry guys! :)

fishing user avatargripnrip reply : 

I'm so glad this thread was ressurected. I am in the market for 5 to 6 rods this year. This will help me make my decisions easier! Thanks!

fishing user avatarSherlock 60 reply : 
  On 2/10/2012 at 4:52 PM, SirSnookalot said:
My biggest asset in fishing is that I'm an idiot. I know nothing of rods, reels, techniques, and have no desire to learn more. I never have and never will buy into the sensitivity issue of rods and won't buy into the concept that the higher price tag of your equipment increases your pleasure, comfortable and smooth operating equipment can come on any ones budget. What increases my pleasure is catching great fish, and that I do it well. Am I great fisherman, not really, just happen to be in a great location, lowly spinning gear is all I need.

Until I joined this forum I had no idea bass fishing was difficult, and so complicated, yet I've been catching them for 60 years on unsensitive and unsophisticated gear and a few lures I can carry in my pocket.

 

 

And he probably has more fun than the rest of us!!

fishing user avatarJ Francho reply : 

I wouldn't say that's true at all. 

fishing user avatarSherlock 60 reply : 
  On 2/11/2012 at 11:56 PM, roadwarrior said:
Some guys collect coins, stamps or sports cars they never drive!

Other guys collect fishing equipment.

 

I often refer to myself as a "fishing tackle collector" rather than as a fisherma.

 

To each his own. Some people buy Yugos and some buy Ferraris....some people buy Snoopy rods and reels and others will buy a Steez. The industry needs them all in order to thrive.  

fishing user avatarBassThumb reply : 

Great thread.  Thanks for the effort you put into testing your theory and sharing it with us.

fishing user avatarBasswhippa reply : 

I had a 6'10" telescoping medium heavy All Star IM10 rod that I could feel the rattles in my 3/8 ounce Denny Braeur Rattleback jigs with 20 pound Big Game monofiliment.  I broke the rod.  I have not had a rod that sensitive since.  Anybody had a rod you could feel the rattles in a jig?

fishing user avatarSirSnookalot reply : 
  On 1/11/2013 at 5:37 AM, Sherlock 60 said:
And he probably has more fun than the rest of us!!

Naw, there's no fun in fishing in Florida .

fishing user avatarSam reply : 

 

  On 2/10/2012 at 11:04 PM, J Francho said:
I think Gary has ham hands. Or at least, too much time on his hands. :eyebrows:

But seriously, interesting post. Doesn't change what rods I'm going to use. Just have someone put the rod tip to their voice box and hum. If you can feel it, it's plenty sensitive.

 

Don't give away all the secrets!!!!

I keep a finger on the line at all times with the exception of moving baits.

I also use the most sensitive rods on the market at a fair price.

But I rely on what my finger tells me when fishing plastics and jigs.

fishing user avatarSam reply : 

P.S. If you don't have anyone to hum at the end of your rod you can start your car's engine and open the hood and place the tip on the motor before the motor gets hot.

And no comments about humming at the end of your rod!

fishing user avatarshootermcbob reply : 

I don't know what makes one rod more sensitive than another. I do know that, after fishing with Kistler, powell max and endurance rods, shimano compre, crucial, and cumara rods, cabelas brands, and bass pro brands that without a doubt...FOR ME... the cumaras are CLEARLY more sensitive than the other rods. At least, they are in my hands.

 

However, I had no issues detecting bites with any of them. I am able to feel bites on the cabelas xml rods I still have without problem.

 

I have a powell max 703c and a cabelas xml ...same rods, same line and lure ratings, only difference is powell is an extra fast action while the cabelas is a fast action. cabelas is full cork grip and powell is split grip...and I am selling the powell because ...IMO...in my hands, the XML is a more sensitive stick. WHY? I do not know, but I can feel it. NOT to be taken as a knock on powell rods at all, I have a few others I really, really like.

 

I fish mostly yozuri hybrid ultrasoft, but also some cabelas flourocarbon line, and some big game mono.

 

I also fish some braid, and again...FOR ME,...fishing with the braid enables even more "feel"...but I don't think it is the rod, rather the braid that is responsible for this.

 

As for where I feel the bites, I am not sure. I will have to pay more attention...but at times I feel a tick, at times I feel pressure, and at times i feel a thump.

 

Final take...maybe sensitivity is more a personal, individual thing rather than a marketing ploy???

fishing user avatarBassCats reply : 

I have used top of the line gear and have used budget gear. What I noticed is that when fishing on others boats and fishing tournaments I had a habit of breaking my expensive ultra "sensitive" rods that didn't weigh more than a feather. When I did this I would grab my berkley lightning rods or a basspro bionic rod that I carried as back up. I never felt that I caught less fish or didn't feel as much. The difference was the weight of the rod and the comfort of the trip. I no longer buy the expensive rods cause I got tired of breaking them. The lighter more "sensitive" rods are more brittle and have a tendancy to break faster if not treated like a baby. I am rough on my gear because I move around a lot and fish in multiple boats. If I was going to fish all day I would like the lighter rod, but not at the expense of having it break or having to worry about how I carry it or store it. I had the pleasure of being on a team that was sponsored by G Loomis, then American Rodsmith, then Duckett rods. I prefered the American Rodsmith rods with the winn handles. But they no longer make freshwater rods. Sensitivity is more based on how much attention you are paying to what you are doing. I have seen people with G Loomis rods, shimano reels and power pro line; not feel a bight that I saw because they were not paying attention. I am also a big fan of watching your line and my hand is in front of my reel with line touching at least one if not normally two fingers at the same time.  Figured I would put my say in and revive a thread for the new year.

fishing user avatarNitrofreak reply : 

I have done away with rods all together, where your hands come in contact with any fishing equipment needs to be an extention or a continuation of what you are feeling at the other end of your line.

 

My hands are rough and callused to the point that there is not much sensitivity in them at all, I have tried some pretty expensive rods in recent history and non of them are what they claim to be for me.(Sensitivity wise)

 

The line is more important to me than the rod itself is and how well it will transmit information from my bait.

fishing user avatarroadwarrior reply : 
  On 2/1/2013 at 9:26 PM, BassCats said:
I have used top of the line gear and have used budget gear. What I noticed is that when fishing on others boats and fishing tournaments I had a habit of breaking my expensive ultra "sensitive" rods that didn't weigh more than a feather. When I did this I would grab my berkley lightning rods or a basspro bionic rod that I carried as back up. I never felt that I caught less fish or didn't feel as much. The difference was the weight of the rod and the comfort of the trip. I no longer buy the expensive rods cause I got tired of breaking them. The lighter more "sensitive" rods are more brittle and have a tendancy to break faster if not treated like a baby. I am rough on my gear because I move around a lot and fish in multiple boats. If I was going to fish all day I would like the lighter rod, but not at the expense of having it break or having to worry about how I carry it or store it. I had the pleasure of being on a team that was sponsored by G Loomis, then American Rodsmith, then Duckett rods. I prefered the American Rodsmith rods with the winn handles. But they no longer make freshwater rods. Sensitivity is more based on how much attention you are paying to what you are doing. I have seen people with G Loomis rods, shimano reels and power pro line; not feel a bight that I saw because they were not paying attention. I am also a big fan of watching your line and my hand is in front of my reel with line touching at least one if not normally two fingers at the same time.  Figured I would put my say in and revive a thread for the new year.

 

Just stirring it up? That's okay, we need a liitle to lighten things up this time of year. So here's my take:

 

I began fishing higher end rods in 1997 and have moved up since then. In 16 years I have never broken

a rod  fishing or been with any friends that have broken one either.

 

I have never been a line watcher. Heck, I can't even see some of the line I fish! If you are really interested

in improving your feel, fish at night.

fishing user avatar.RM. reply : 
  On 2/2/2013 at 1:03 AM, roadwarrior said:
Just stirring it up? That's okay, we need a liitle to lighten things up this time of year. So here's my take:

 

I began fishing higher end rods in 1997 and have moved up since then. In 16 years I have never broken

a rod  fishing or been with any friends that have broken one either.

 

I have never been a line watcher. Heck, I can't even see some of the line I fish! If you are really interested

in improving your feel, fish at night.

Or during the day with your eyes closed/blindfolded....... :laugh5::eyebrows::Victory:

 

Tight Lines All!   :fishing1:

fishing user avatarWRB reply : 

Here is a question for your sensitive feelings"; will a guitar play under water?

If water dampens a guitar string from vibrating, what makes anyone believe they can feel a fishing line vibrate underwater! What you feel is line movement, the lure moving not line vibrating. The lure or fish must move or add weight to the line or you will not detect the strike. The rod isn't capable of attenuating or amplify line movement, it can dampen it.

The modern rod weighs about 1/2 today than rods a decade ago. The newer rods have better guides with less line drag. FC line isas a lower coeffient of drag going through the rod guides and the water, then mono line. Super braids have a Teflon coating that helps to lower drag. All these low coeffient of drag elements allow us to feel line movement easier and the rod materials do not dampen feed back as much as the older rods did. The lighter weight rod and reel combinations allows the angler to feel line movement better than heavier weight older rods.

Feel the line your finger tips and watch the line with your eyes and enjoy fishing with today's lighter weight rods and reels.

Tom

fishing user avatarHyrule Bass reply : 

ive long been a believer that the sensitivity thing is overrated. If i can feel bites just fine on a $35 ugly stik, then why would i even think of paying $100+ on rods that many of yall seem to constantly break on hooksets? its not worth it to me. any amount of sensitivity difference between a cheap rod and expensive rod is real minimal and not worth the extra money to me.

 

and dont tell me i would feel more bites with an expensive rod i didnt know i was getting with the cheap rod. Ive seen fishing shows using underwater cameras and the diver telling professional fishermen to set the hook they were getting a bite, but the fisherman never knew it until the underwater cameraman told him...

fishing user avatarNitrofreak reply : 
  On 2/2/2013 at 12:49 PM, WRB said:
Here is a question for your sensitive feelings"; will a guitar play under what?

If water dampens a guitar string from vibrating, what makes anyone believe they can feel a fishing line vibrate underwater! What you feel is line movement, the lure moving not line vibrating. The lure or fish must move or add weight to the line or you will not detect the strike. The rod isn't capable of attenuating or amplify line movement, it can dampen it.

The modern rod weighs about 1/2 today than rods a decade ago. The newer rods have better guides with less line drag. FC line isas a lower coeffient of drag going through the rod guides and the water, then mono line. Super braids have a Teflon coating that helps to lower drag. All these low coeffient of drag elements allow us to feel line movement easier and the rod materials do not dampen feed back as much as the older rods did. The lighter weight rod and reel combinations allows the angler to feel line movement better than heavier weight older rods.

Feel the line your finger tips and watch the line with your eyes and enjoy fishing with today's lighter weight rods and reels.

Tom

 

You are correct in saying a line does not vibrate to the extent of a guitar string under water, however it is able to transmit, the guitar string is not a good example for what you are reffering to, the guitar string requires some sort of magnification to produce sound,  however if you were to take two cans and tie them to a piece of fishing line and stretch the line between 2 people a voice can be heard at the other end.

 

Lines will transmit relations to the bottom, anyone who has ever drug a jig across pavement, small gravels, can pull the line and feel what the jig is transmitting without using a fishing rod. 

fishing user avatarWRB reply : 
  On 2/2/2013 at 11:24 PM, Nitrofreak said:
You are correct in saying a line does not vibrate to the extent of a guitar string under water, however it is able to transmit, the guitar string is not a good example for what you are reffering to, the guitar string requires some sort of magnification to produce sound, however if you were to take two cans and tie them to a piece of fishing line and stretch the line between 2 people a voice can be heard at the other end.

Lines will transmit relations to the bottom, anyone who has ever drug a jig across pavement, small gravels, can pull the line and feel what the jig is transmitting without using a fishing rod.

Actually water completely dampens your line vibration, what you feel is the line movement as the jig stops and goes as you drag it actress a rough surface. Try tying the line on the rod tip, drag it across the pavement out of water and the rod will transfer far more feeling down the rods length then it will dragging the same jig under water. The key with both these experiments is the line is tight. If the line has slack and you hit the jig with a hammer, you will feel nothing unless the blow moves the line, no vibrations will transfer through slack line in water or air.

Sound waves travel faster and further in water than air, our ears can't hear them very well, but you can feel them underwater and bass lateral line feels them, rambling off topic.

Yes we get better feedback with high modulus rods materials, but....nothing can compare with your finger tips detecting line movement.

Don't you wonder how anyone could catch bass with jig using 100% fiberglass rods, before graphite rods came on the market! Don't get me wrong, I love the new light weight modern rods, however I still fish them using my finger to feel the line so I will not miss the slightest line movement.

Tom


2065

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