Mass Produced Rod Vs A Custom 2024
GADawgs reply :
I am in the market for a new plastics, light jig, spinnerbait, paddle tail swimmer and swim jig rod up to 3/4 to 1 oz tops. I bought a Powell Endurance 723 but it had to be returned due to an issue I documented in an earlier post. I am looking up to $200 for budget and I am trying to decide whether to buy an off the rack rod or have one made for me. I would appreciate any input on off the rack rods that may fit the bill and input from people that have had customs made.
If I decide to go custom what should I take into account other than what seems to be obvious (length, power, reel seat, grips, hook holder, guides)?
kickerfish1 reply :
I would say custom but also keep in mind that to make a rod that is individualized to your specific needs is costly for several reasons. First you have the labor that is factored into the cost of the rod. Second you have the individual components and accent/trim pieces. There also may be a shipping charge as well. Also the amount of time needed to complete the build will be weeks if not months so consider when you need the rod by.
Talk to a custom builder about what $200 total shipped to your door will get you. There are alot of nice off the shelf options out there for under $200.
Compile a list of rods that fit the bill for what you want and compare it against what you think you will get for a custom.
GADawgs reply :
I have already done that in the past. Basically I would get the following setup for a custom, or something close for about $200 shipped
MHX 843 Blank, 1/4-3/4oz MH/F
Fuji ECSM seat
Fuji Alconite guides 7, 4.5........ & top
Cork spilt grip
single color wraps with trim band
Off the shelf I am looking at the G Loomis E6X 834, Dobyns Savvy 733, Powell Max3D 7''3" MH, Pinnacle Perfecta 7' MH and maybe a Duckett.
S Hovanec reply :
I'd be looking at an off shelf Avid before trying to spec a custom for $200. IMO, you're not getting much rod in a custom for that kind of money.
EvanT123 reply :
On 5/6/2015 at 11:08 AM, S Hovanec said:I'd be looking at an off shelf Avid before trying to spec a custom for $200. IMO, you're not getting much rod in a custom for that kind of money.
Lol I'm liking a lot of what your saying tonight Scott. I'm not in business of selling rods but this was my thought exactly.
Long Mike reply :
If you go to a custom rod builder and tell him the type of rod you would like to have, and your budget, I can pretty much guarantee you that you will get twice the rod you were expecting. But first you have to do your homework. One of our sponsors is Batson. You can go to their site and pretty much design your own rod, from grips, to blanks to reel seats, to guides. Once you have made your decisions, simply call your custom builder and read the menu to him.
kickerfish1 reply :
Sometimes you can find good blanks on closeout and components as well or catch a sale. Hard to say what would be best.
If you have your heart set on trying a custom save up a bit longer or sell some things you don't need to free some funds to increase your budget.
Check with a few custom builders to see what they can do for price. Maybe you can find a guy that would build it without alot of labor costs.
Side note: the ALX Zolo B rods are a little over $200 but are close to a custom rod in build. They have really nice blanks and tapers. It is the closest production rod that I have to my custom K2.
Hogsticker reply :
The trick is waiting till Mudhole has free shipping on orders over 100 bucks.
SirSnookalot reply :
On 5/6/2015 at 11:08 AM, S Hovanec said:I'd be looking at an off shelf Avid before trying to spec a custom for $200. IMO, you're not getting much rod in a custom for that kind of money.
I agree, although St Croix is not one of my favorite brands. From an economic standpoint most rod builders are not building 100-200 rods at a time, they are pretty much buying components at retail price. A rod company builds thousands of rods, parts are wholesale to them and their labor is cheaper than an individual rod builder.
A good example of this for me was last year, my buddy has a Cabo 40 reel as I do. He had a custom 8' rod built, I tried it and liked it. Went to see the rod builder 40 miles away, the identical rod to my friend was about $250 and 2 month wait, this rod builder is very busy. Not wanting to wait that long I bought a brand that I'm very familiar with, it's also 8' mh with the same lure parameters, visually hard to tell the 2 rods apart. Casting distance for the 2 rods is about the same and we both handle the same size fish, I see no difference in performance but my rod was 1/2 the price. As important as the rod performance is the customer service, my rod has a lifetime warranty with a great reputation and purchased from West Marine. If there would have been a problem, which there wasn't I have 2 ways to go for satisfaction, makes me more comfortable than dealing with a single individual.
A custom rod does do wonders for one's ego, my ego is fueled from the fish I catch not the wand in my hands.
Delaware Valley Tackle reply :
On 5/6/2015 at 11:32 AM, Long Mike said:If you go to a custom rod builder and tell him the type of rod you would like to have, and your budget, I can pretty much guarantee you that you will get twice the rod you were expecting. But first you have to do your homework. One of our sponsors is Batson. You can go to their site and pretty much design your own rod, from grips, to blanks to reel seats, to guides. Once you have made your decisions, simply call your custom builder and read the menu to him.
Of course the client has final say, but design and component recommendation are a big part of what you pay a good rod builder for. If you've done due diligence and/or know through experience exactly what you want that makes it easy for me. However, I encourage novice's to custom rods to keep an open mind and consider the builder's advice in decision making.
.ghoti. reply :
On 5/6/2015 at 11:05 AM, GADawgs said:I have already done that in the past. Basically I would get the following setup for a custom, or something close for about $200 shipped
MHX 843 Blank, 1/4-3/4oz MH/F
Fuji ECSM seat
Fuji Alconite guides 7, 4.5........ & top
Cork spilt grip
single color wraps with trim band
Off the shelf I am looking at the G Loomis E6X 834, Dobyns Savvy 733, Powell Max3D 7''3" MH, Pinnacle Perfecta 7' MH and maybe a Duckett.
You have over $100 worth of components listed. You're not likely to find a good builder who will build that for $200, not to mention $30+ for shipping.
S Hovanec reply :
On 5/6/2015 at 9:23 PM, .ghoti. said:You have over $100 worth of components listed. You're not likely to find a good builder who will build that for $200, not to mention $30+ for shipping.
I have a real nice 7'2" ML RX8 I'm trying to sell. I just want my money back out of it and to do that, I have to have a $200 price tag on it. Just delivered a 5' UL RX7 on Saturday. That one was $198 out the door.
Unless you're really good friends with a builder, I doubt you'll find a $200 custom. If you do, He's just making it harder for other builders to get what their work is really worth.
WPCfishing reply :
On 5/6/2015 at 11:08 AM, S Hovanec said:I'd be looking at an off shelf Avid before trying to spec a custom for $200. IMO, you're not getting much rod in a custom for that kind of money.
I completely agree.
Batson reply :
Ok here we go 
Customs or Mass Production.
First thing before going down the road is how much personalization you want for your rod? This is where it starts. Not all mass produce rods are bad, they are just different.
Truth be told, a lot of these "mass" produced rod companies buy blanks and components from a company like ours. We sell in high volume to OEM and Private labels all the time. They assemble the rod then put it on the market. Other companies go to factories and piece things together.
WHY custom you ask?? Here is the heavy story. Ill try to keep it short.
Every person fishes completely different. Some are power fisherman, some are finesse, some are a mix. But rod companies can not afford to have a rod lineup that has 80 bass models to try to outfit every type of angler. But we can. We have 750+ blank models and over 220+ of them are in the bass market. We have 5500+ components to satisfy nearly every fisherman. Why have so many models? Well every person fishes differently and wants something a bit more personalized. In crank bait alone we have 40 models. Some like glass, some like graphite, some like a blend of both. So when a private label or OEM/Private label has a specific model in mind we can out fit them. We have a complete design team as well. If we don't have something in stock that works, we can design and supply.
Now lets get back to customs. A custom rod allows you to personalize any part of your rod to maximize its full potential and made personally for you, the angler. Comfort, handle length, guide sizes, number of guides, building on the straight edge vs spine, what type of components: reel seat, guides ( rings and frame materials ), Tip Tops ( ring and frame materials ), type of grips and lengths, trim rings and winding checks, even color etc..
It may be daunting, but you get to customize all these to you! Could you imagine the cost of you were to get a custom suit made or a custom pair of shoes?
Take 2 different anglers with the same fishing environment, line, reel, lure, etc.. but lets just change height and weight. One is 5'5" 140lb and the next is 6'4" 260lbs. Both persons should not be using the same handle length, rod size, etc.. Much like anything customization will solve these issues.
This is also the reason why many anglers have a myriad of different rods by different manufactures due to wanting different things. Lets give this example, Manufacturer 1 has a white rod with cork split grips but with blue components and Manufacturer 2 has a black rod with eva full grips and silver components. But you want a white rod with silver components and eva split grips. You would be stuck because then you would have to look at Manufacturer 3 or 4 etc.. to find your right combo. You get the picture.
Custom rods allows you to solve any and all issues that you may encounter.
rippin-lips reply :
You can pm me and I'll give you the name of a builder that doesn't charge much. I think my Mhx build was $150 shipped. I picked the blank,guides,reel seat, and thread color.
WPCfishing reply :
Another consideration is resale, If you decide to sell a home brewed rod it's not worth a dime.. Just buy a rod and be happy. If you can't find one you like there's no way your going to have a rod built for $200.00 total that you will like at all.
Hogsticker reply :
The issue I had with off the shelf rods and why I went custom -
Very few manufacturers tell you what you're getting in a blank. Rarely could I find a rod that had the exact components, length, and power I wanted. Maybe it had everything I wanted minus the guides, grip length / material , reel seat, etc. Plus they are mass produced meaning at times sloppy work being crooked guides, excess epoxy, the reel seat and grip didn't align perfect, etc.
In order to bring out the full potential in a blank it has to be built right. I seriously doubt a large percentage of companies static test, rather mass build off of blueprints. Only the individual can decide if the juice is worth the squeeze. For me it was. Save another 60 bucks and get what you want is my advice. I think the only rods I've seen consistent build quality from are Kistler, ALX, Megabass, and some other Jdm companies. I was at Sportsmans warehouse this morning looking over rods from Powell, Duckett, and Fenwick. The majority of them were far from flawless.
Batson reply :
Yup your right!
So Hogsticker, when are you going to come out west and touch and feel our products? Might as well since your in the same state! 
It all comes down to the engine and who is designing in and making it.
Personalization is key, don't worry too much about resale value, unless your going to get out of the sport and want to sell everything..
Delaware Valley Tackle reply :
On 5/8/2015 at 11:13 PM, Batson said:Yup your right!
So Hogsticker, when are you going to come out west and touch and feel our products? Might as well since your in the same state!
It all comes down to the engine and who is designing in and making it.
Personalization is key, don't worry too much about resale value, unless your going to get out of the sport and want to sell everything..
Plus, a well built rod from a reputable builder should command a decent resale price over a "home brewed" build just slapped together.
rippin-lips reply :
Mike, I am interested to hear your thoughts. Can you build a decent custom for $200? All these people are saying it's not possible, but I remember reading on here a few times where you said you could. At least I think I did.
dam0007 reply :
13 and Dobyns are the only 2 brands I've been completely 110% happy with everything. I own/owned Daiwas Kistlers st croixs Shimanos Crowders BPS quantums Shakespeares Sill Stars Pinnacles Okumas. I wouldn't go custom on workhorse rods that get beat up bad. More risk of breaking. However you can't beat custom so for me personally custom is the way to go for finesse.
EvanT123 reply :
On 5/8/2015 at 6:42 AM, rippin-lips said:You can pm me and I'll give you the name of a builder that doesn't charge much. I think my Mhx build was $150 shipped. I picked the blank,guides,reel seat, and thread color.
Shoot at that price the rest of the rod builders might as well give up and ask if you want fries with that.
Ozark_Basser reply :
I like how with custom rods you get the first shot at newer components or designs. Spiral wraps are just starting to get popular with mass produced rods but have been very popular among custom builds. Torzite guides are another example.
S Hovanec reply :
On 5/9/2015 at 12:41 PM, Jiggin said:I like how with custom rods you get the first shot at newer components or designs. Spiral wraps are just starting to get popular with mass produced rods but have been very popular among custom builds. Torzite guides are another example.
Rod companies watch custom builders to see what is trending and what they can rip off next. I saw my first rod with micro guides at the ICRBE in 2006. Steve Gardner built this really nice rod with these teeny tiny guides. Smallest I've ever seen. It took the manufacturers about 3 years to start marketing the micro guides. Problem that the general fishing public, or the rod companies for that matter, fail to realize is micro guides are NOT for every application and that's why many hate them.
Split grips appeard in the custom market years before they were on manufactured rods. I believe Rich Forhan started that trend. Now its hard to buy a rod without a split grip.
What would be nice is if the makers of mass produced rods would learn a little fit and finish from the custom builders. Gaps in wraps, sloppy finish, poorly fitting cork, glue squeezing out between the reel seat and cork....and that was all on one single NRX!! If someone is gonna pay that kind of money for a poorly executed build, why not consider custom and get a great product for the same price!
Crutch reply :
What an interesting discussion! I'd never really considered a custom rod build until Batson gave that great explanation. Custom rods are still way out of my price range due to being in college, though..
Jawjacker reply :
You might want to look at Dixie Custom Rods, btw they use batson blanks. I don't own one but might in the future. There are options out there. Good luck in college.On 5/9/2015 at 9:09 PM, Crutch said:What an interesting discussion! I'd never really considered a custom rod build until Batson gave that great explanation. Custom rods are still way out of my price range due to being in college, though..
Capt.Bob reply :
On 5/6/2015 at 11:08 AM, S Hovanec said:I'd be looking at an off shelf Avid before trying to spec a custom for $200. IMO, you're not getting much rod in a custom for that kind of money.
This is solid advice, you could go with an Avid blank, and go from their, but you aint buying any blank better than the Avid, for the same money,,,aint happening,,,,, and nothing is backed as well, even if custom built you keep your lifetime warranty from St. Croix!! But unless you use inferior hardware, it won't happen for less than 250 to 275 dollars. The off the shelf Avid as recommended will leave some of that 200 bucks still in your pocket!!
I just picked this up 4 weeks ago,,,, It is an Avid blank $85.00, (your weight and length blank would be around $95.00 for the Avid) and had 3" of extra blank added to make it absolutely personal, with $90.00 in Recoil guides, $8.00 for the tip, $5.00 hook keeper, a fuji Skeleton reel seat $10.00 with custom hand made cork to complete it, along with a custom hand made two-tone cork reel seat precision balanced to the CI4+ 1000 reel $30.00, add. building fees of $50.00 for labor, and I have an exquisitely wrapped with black thread to mach the reel with slight twin red thread wraps at the rod label on each end w hook keeper, twin red wraps at the first rings, one red wrap on the second ring up and call it finished the rest of the rings just the black thread wraps..... $278.00 But I have it exactly the way I want it, and it is precision balanced and lighter than the factory finished rod coming in at a whopping 2.9 oz finished, I couldn't be happier.
The last pic is with a Legend Elite I had built buy the same rod builder previously, in much the same manner with the same components in a heavier power and action. There is nothing better than having it your way, well worth the additional approximate 70 buck's, to me anyway's.
Hogsticker reply :
Generally speaking a builder will charge more than 50 bucks unless he is a buddy or something. Most people don't build a custom with the intent to sell it later.
Capt.Bob reply :
On 5/10/2015 at 12:08 AM, Hogsticker said:Generally speaking a builder will charge more than 50 bucks unless he is a buddy or something. Most people don't build a custom with the intent to sell it later.
You didn't add in the 30 buck's, that paid for more than just the material, he charged that for the cork work and probably had only a few bucks in material. But regardless, yes I am blessed this guy knows me from my Guide day's, he was years ago, also a guide, call it professional courtesy maybe??? Doesn't matter he has built several over the years for me, and made many repairs to the rods I used to furnish customers. Point is it is like anything in life, when you pick a custom builder it should involve a relashionship, this will make years working together to grow and certainly there will be things that you benefit from some total stranger from any skilled custom service provider,,,,,gunsmiths, rod builders, mechanics,,,, you name it. This why it is important to start with a good one, it pays dividends in later,,,,,, 
John G reply :
The impression that I get from this Thread is that custom rod builders don't seem to be getting rich from building rods That is not a slap at custom rod building but from the work involved vs versus cost, it doesn't seem like there is not a very large profit margin.
Capt.Bob reply :
On 5/10/2015 at 1:00 AM, John G said:The impression that I get from this Thread is that custom rod builders don't seem to be getting rich from building rods That is not a slap at custom rod building but from the work involved vs versus cost, it doesn't seem like there is a very large profit margin.
Maybe not but Id say my builder had 3 to 4 hours tops of personal time involved, so about 20 bucks an hour doing what you want when you want at something you enjoy beats hell outa being on a production line or braving the weather doing skilled trades work,,, these guy's thats done it for 20 years or more can do in that time what we spend 8 or 10 hours doing, and make it perfect when their done,,,,yes they are worth what you pay,,,,, and know I don't see many living off a fairway somewhere, but man do they ever seem happy,,,, 
Ozark_Basser reply :
On 5/9/2015 at 7:57 PM, S Hovanec said:Rod companies watch custom builders to see what is trending and what they can rip off next. I saw my first rod with micro guides at the ICRBE in 2006. Steve Gardner built this really nice rod with these teeny tiny guides. Smallest I've ever seen. It took the manufacturers about 3 years to start marketing the micro guides. Problem that the general fishing public, or the rod companies for that matter, fail to realize is micro guides are NOT for every application and that's why many hate them.
Split grips appeard in the custom market years before they were on manufactured rods. I believe Rich Forhan started that trend. Now its hard to buy a rod without a split grip.
What would be nice is if the makers of mass produced rods would learn a little fit and finish from the custom builders. Gaps in wraps, sloppy finish, poorly fitting cork, glue squeezing out between the reel seat and cork....and that was all on one single NRX!! If someone is gonna pay that kind of money for a poorly executed build, why not consider custom and get a great product for the same price!
Steve Gardner came up with micro guides? That guys been helping me out a lot on rod building.org's message board. He sent me an email for his formula for spiral wrapping too. I feel special lol.
S Hovanec reply :
There is a good margain, if builders would charge what their time and work is worth and stop trying to recruit the Walmart crowd into a custom. A custom built on the same blank with same materials should NOT cost less than the factory model.
Capt.Bob reply :
I don't think you could build a custom rod yourself cheaper than a factory ,,,,say Avid,,,, you would have to use some pretty cheap less than quality parts, I supply the hardware for my builds and I have as much in the guides and blank, not counting everything else, as I would buying the rod from the factory. If someone goes into a custom build thinking they are saving money over a factory rod of the same model,,,,,,they have a rude awakening!!
Ozark_Basser reply :
I disagree. I built a North Fork Composites 709 HM with Fuji micro SiC titanium frame guides. Also, it has a carbon fiber handle with a carbon fiber foregrip. It cost me around $430. If you bought the G Loomis edge series it would cost you $550, so I saved $120.On 5/10/2015 at 4:59 AM, Capt.Bob said:I don't think you could build a custom rod yourself cheaper than a factory ,,,,say Avid,,,, you would have to use some pretty cheap less than quality parts, I supply the hardware for my builds and I have as much in the guides and blank, not counting everything else, as I would buying the rod from the factory. If someone goes into a custom build thinking they are saving money over a factory rod of the same model,,,,,,they have a rude awakening!!
Capt.Bob reply :
On 5/10/2015 at 5:25 AM, Jiggin said:I disagree. I built a North Fork Composites 709 HM with Fuji micro SiC titanium frame guides. Also, it has a carbon fiber handle with a carbon fiber foregrip. It cost me around $430. If you bought the G Loomis edge series it would cost you $550, so I saved $120.
Street prices please,,,, and your time is like S Havonek said then worthless....
Ozark_Basser reply :
On 5/10/2015 at 7:12 AM, Capt.Bob said:Street prices please,,,, and your time is like S Havonek said then worthless....
Those are street prices.
SirSnookalot reply :
Capt. Bob is probably right about not saving money by doing it yourself, and certainly not with a private builder. Items bought retail in small quantity are going to cost more than items bought in volume. Pricing is different say to a Shimano or other larger company than it would be to the average Joe. Don't know exactly how much time it takes to make a rod, let's use 5 hours total time. Don't a believe a factory worker assembling parts is going to earn more than maybe $15-18 an hour, much less if it's offshore. The positive in doing it yourself is the labor of love, which is priceless.
The question that each individual needs to answer, is it worth it for them to go custom, for me not really. Having rods that have lasted 5-10 years, cast as well as anything else and do a great job handling the fish, I'm plenty satisfied. I personally don't need a super lite or sensitivity stick, I don't fish that way too often. I don't care much about the guides, line goes thru smooth and stays solid on the blank that's fine with me. The majority of my rods are 2 brands (both with lifetime warranty), if they hadn't been comfortable I wouldn't have bought them in the first place.
Ozark_Basser reply :
On 5/10/2015 at 2:17 PM, SirSnookalot said:Capt. Bob is probably right about not saving money by doing it yourself
For the most part, yes. He is right. Especially for cheaper rods. If your price range is say sub 200 or maybe 150, then you are probably going to be better off buying mass produced rods. There probably is still some instances where you could save some money on cheaper mass produced rods by building something similar or exactly them same yourself though.
Take any top dollar rod by Megabass as an example. You could get a K2 blank and get your components from Matagi and build a rod that looks exactly the same and probably performs just as well while saving hundreds of dollars, and you get to customize it the way you want. Even if you hired a custom rod builder to do it for you, you'd save a lot of money.
Start up costs aren't even that bad if you just get the bare essentials such as epoxy, thread, a cardboard box, a thread bobbin, some razor blades, tape, and brushes. I personally didn't do that, but I'm sure there are people out there that build very nice rods this way.
Batson reply :
Wow a lot of really good answers.. But here is our take. lol!
On 5/8/2015 at 11:57 PM, Delaware Valley Tackle said:Plus, a well built rod from a reputable builder should command a decent resale price over a "home brewed" build just slapped together.
That is very very true. The custom market has unseen things that the factory rods ( Overseas ) just don't have the time for. Building on the straight edge vs the spine, how many guides and the train, balancing, putting on reel seats correctly, etc.. I can go on and on about this. Again factory rods are not bad, they are just not a custom. So yes your right DVT
On 5/9/2015 at 1:20 AM, rippin-lips said:Mike, I am interested to hear your thoughts. Can you build a decent custom for $200? All these people are saying it's not possible, but I remember reading on here a few times where you said you could. At least I think I did.
It is possible, but you have to compare apples to apples. A $200 factory rod built over seas would be comparable to our RX6 possibly our RX7 lineup with standard type components. The components if you look through our catalog, is found on numerous factory built rods. But they are only putting on standard items. Yes you can get a $200 custom made, it just depends on the person, the parts, etc.. Where you get into more money, is when you want upgraded components and a high end blank, but only want to pay $200 and not build it yourself.
On 5/9/2015 at 1:37 AM, dam0007 said:13 and Dobyns are the only 2 brands I've been completely 110% happy with everything. I own/owned Daiwas Kistlers st croixs Shimanos Crowders BPS quantums Shakespeares Sill Stars Pinnacles Okumas. I wouldn't go custom on workhorse rods that get beat up bad. More risk of breaking. However you can't beat custom so for me personally custom is the way to go for finesse.
Hmm.. These are overseas brands. We have both of these in-house and find it interesting that you have owned Kistlers, St Croix, etc.. But you are mixing USA made with Overseas and saying they are not as good as the 13 or Dobyns. FYI, every rod will break, but the fishing style might need to be fixed rather than finding the "one" rod. Workhorse rods are important since you need 20+ rods in your boat to compete. We have the nephew of Gerald Swindle on our prostaff team and constantly swings fish left and right into the boat. He physically abuses the rods by high sticking, boat flipping, even setting the hook like he is KVD. He fishes our Revelation REVS72m ( spinning rod converted into a casting rod and medium power = to most "factory" overseas MH ) He has caught thousands of fish and just recently broke 1 out of 18 in 2 years due to who knows what. Deep in Alabama where factory rods are big, he wins everything local ( or places in top 3 ). Warranties are one thing, but personalization and winning is another. Just depends on what you want to do? Best thing ever is learn how to build yourself and then open your world up to custom rods and building it how you want it built.
On 5/9/2015 at 7:57 PM, S Hovanec said:Rod companies watch custom builders to see what is trending and what they can rip off next. I saw my first rod with micro guides at the ICRBE in 2006. Steve Gardner built this really nice rod with these teeny tiny guides. Smallest I've ever seen. It took the manufacturers about 3 years to start marketing the micro guides. Problem that the general fishing public, or the rod companies for that matter, fail to realize is micro guides are NOT for every application and that's why many hate them.
Split grips appeard in the custom market years before they were on manufactured rods. I believe Rich Forhan started that trend. Now its hard to buy a rod without a split grip.
What would be nice is if the makers of mass produced rods would learn a little fit and finish from the custom builders. Gaps in wraps, sloppy finish, poorly fitting cork, glue squeezing out between the reel seat and cork....and that was all on one single NRX!! If someone is gonna pay that kind of money for a poorly executed build, why not consider custom and get a great product for the same price!
This is true. Rod companies do watch custom rod builders!
Steve Gardner invented the micro guide concept system! Hands down!! It even bleeded into mini guide system as well. The concept is what matters, and FYI Steve Gardner did this all with ALPS components. The main story is that the custom market is typically always the first to try things out. If it doesnt work, you can always go and modify it.
FYI, does anyone know who invented the blank exposed real seat that everyone loves today?? Hint: Bob Batson with Pacbay when he was the president!
Man S Hovanec, how do you know this info
Agreed with everything!
On 5/9/2015 at 9:09 PM, Crutch said:What an interesting discussion! I'd never really considered a custom rod build until Batson gave that great explanation. Custom rods are still way out of my price range due to being in college, though..
Its hard to understand really the behind the scenes Crutch. Factory built rods are not bad.. don't get me wrong. There is place for all rods in this arena. But I find it difficult like I said before when someone says I like this rod company because its the best. Another person says I hate it. Well its not necessarily because the rod isn't good. Its just not a right fit. I can tell you this Crutch, once you go custom, you will probably not want to buy another factory rod again. I have not heard that the opposite way unless the builder that built the custom wasn't truthful, which every industry you have your bad apples. lol
On 5/9/2015 at 10:37 PM, Jawjacker said:You might want to look at Dixie Custom Rods, btw they use batson blanks. I don't own one but might in the future. There are options out there. Good luck in college.
We have a lot of "private label" companies. Dixie is one of them and has produce many people winning on his rods!
On 5/9/2015 at 10:39 PM, Capt.Bob said:This is solid advice, you could go with an Avid blank, and go from their, but you aint buying any blank better than the Avid, for the same money,,,aint happening,,,,, and nothing is backed as well, even if custom built you keep your lifetime warranty from St. Croix!! But unless you use inferior hardware, it won't happen for less than 250 to 275 dollars. The off the shelf Avid as recommended will leave some of that 200 bucks still in your pocket!!
I just picked this up 4 weeks ago,,,, It is an Avid blank $85.00, (your weight and length blank would be around $95.00 for the Avid) and had 3" of extra blank added to make it absolutely personal, with $90.00 in Recoil guides, $8.00 for the tip, $5.00 hook keeper, a fuji Skeleton reel seat $10.00 with custom hand made cork to complete it, along with a custom hand made two-tone cork reel seat precision balanced to the CI4+ 1000 reel $30.00, add. building fees of $50.00 for labor, and I have an exquisitely wrapped with black thread to mach the reel with slight twin red thread wraps at the rod label on each end w hook keeper, twin red wraps at the first rings, one red wrap on the second ring up and call it finished the rest of the rings just the black thread wraps..... $278.00 But I have it exactly the way I want it, and it is precision balanced and lighter than the factory finished rod coming in at a whopping 2.9 oz finished, I couldn't be happier.
The last pic is with a Legend Elite I had built buy the same rod builder previously, in much the same manner with the same components in a heavier power and action. There is nothing better than having it your way, well worth the additional approximate 70 buck's, to me anyway's.
Very True Capt. Bob.. FYI, do you know that the head designer that worked for St Croix for 17 years is Mike Thorson? Do you also know that Mike Thorson has been our VP of Engineering for 13 years since he left St Croix? You should check out the RainShadow line if you like the St Croix blanks! Hint Hint!
On 5/10/2015 at 1:00 AM, John G said:The impression that I get from this Thread is that custom rod builders don't seem to be getting rich from building rods That is not a slap at custom rod building but from the work involved vs versus cost, it doesn't seem like there is a very large profit margin.
haha.. I don't think any custom rod builder is getting rich! They do it for the love of rod building and its an expression of their passion for fishing.
On 5/10/2015 at 2:33 AM, Jiggin said:Steve Gardner came up with micro guides? That guys been helping me out a lot on rod building.org's message board. He sent me an email for his formula for spiral wrapping too. I feel special lol.
Ya weird huh? Steve Gardner is awesome! He has a lot of different things. Check out his vibronics discs and build a rod using our carbon fiber handles. You want to feel everything, there I just told you the secret sauce!
On 5/10/2015 at 5:25 AM, Jiggin said:I disagree. I built a North Fork Composites 709 HM with Fuji micro SiC titanium frame guides. Also, it has a carbon fiber handle with a carbon fiber foregrip. It cost me around $430. If you bought the G Loomis edge series it would cost you $550, so I saved $120.
That is true.. and you don't have to go with everything high end. That is where people don't get yet. Oh and by the way, it can never be: Gloomis and edge together lol
The NRX has cork, Recoil guides with stripper guides. Split seat with split grips, but in cork.
S Hovanec reply :
On 5/12/2015 at 12:36 AM, Batson said:Man S Hovanec, how do you know this info
I know a few people and pay attention when they talk! It helps to have a memory like an elephant too!
dam0007 reply :
On 5/12/2015 at 12:36 AM, Batson said:Wow a lot of really good answers.. But here is our take. lol!
That is very very true. The custom market has unseen things that the factory rods ( Overseas ) just don't have the time for. Building on the straight edge vs the spine, how many guides and the train, balancing, putting on reel seats correctly, etc.. I can go on and on about this. Again factory rods are not bad, they are just not a custom. So yes your right DVT
It is possible, but you have to compare apples to apples. A $200 factory rod built over seas would be comparable to our RX6 possibly our RX7 lineup with standard type components. The components if you look through our catalog, is found on numerous factory built rods. But they are only putting on standard items. Yes you can get a $200 custom made, it just depends on the person, the parts, etc.. Where you get into more money, is when you want upgraded components and a high end blank, but only want to pay $200 and not build it yourself.
Hmm.. These are overseas brands. We have both of these in-house and find it interesting that you have owned Kistlers, St Croix, etc.. But you are mixing USA made with Overseas and saying they are not as good as the 13 or Dobyns. FYI, every rod will break, but the fishing style might need to be fixed rather than finding the "one" rod. Workhorse rods are important since you need 20+ rods in your boat to compete. We have the nephew of Gerald Swindle on our prostaff team and constantly swings fish left and right into the boat. He physically abuses the rods by high sticking, boat flipping, even setting the hook like he is KVD. He fishes our Revelation REVS72m ( spinning rod converted into a casting rod and medium power = to most "factory" overseas MH ) He has caught thousands of fish and just recently broke 1 out of 18 in 2 years due to who knows what. Deep in Alabama where factory rods are big, he wins everything local ( or places in top 3 ). Warranties are one thing, but personalization and winning is another. Just depends on what you want to do? Best thing ever is learn how to build yourself and then open your world up to custom rods and building it how you want it built.
This is true. Rod companies do watch custom rod builders!
Steve Gardner invented the micro guide concept system! Hands down!! It even bleeded into mini guide system as well. The concept is what matters, and FYI Steve Gardner did this all with ALPS components. The main story is that the custom market is typically always the first to try things out. If it doesnt work, you can always go and modify it.
FYI, does anyone know who invented the blank exposed real seat that everyone loves today?? Hint: Bob Batson with Pacbay when he was the president!
Man S Hovanec, how do you know this info
Agreed with everything!
Its hard to understand really the behind the scenes Crutch. Factory built rods are not bad.. don't get me wrong. There is place for all rods in this arena. But I find it difficult like I said before when someone says I like this rod company because its the best. Another person says I hate it. Well its not necessarily because the rod isn't good. Its just not a right fit. I can tell you this Crutch, once you go custom, you will probably not want to buy another factory rod again. I have not heard that the opposite way unless the builder that built the custom wasn't truthful, which every industry you have your bad apples. lol
We have a lot of "private label" companies. Dixie is one of them and has produce many people winning on his rods!
Very True Capt. Bob.. FYI, do you know that the head designer that worked for St Croix for 17 years is Mike Thorson? Do you also know that Mike Thorson has been our VP of Engineering for 13 years since he left St Croix? You should check out the RainShadow line if you like the St Croix blanks! Hint Hint!
haha.. I don't think any custom rod builder is getting rich! They do it for the love of rod building and its an expression of their passion for fishing.
Ya weird huh? Steve Gardner is awesome! He has a lot of different things. Check out his vibronics discs and build a rod using our carbon fiber handles. You want to feel everything, there I just told you the secret sauce!
That is true.. and you don't have to go with everything high end. That is where people don't get yet. Oh and by the way, it can never be: Gloomis and edge together
The NRX has cork, Recoil guides with stripper guides. Split seat with split grips, but in cork.
---
Just answering you response to me only. Yeah overseas rods but they work great for me. Kistlers and St Croix are great rods but not my cup of tea. Kistlers I've owners are excessively tip heavy California series and KLX. The St Croixs are solid but not as sensitive compared to the others. As far as abuse, my 13s I beat the living hell out of them and they take it. Dobyns I'm more gentle with because the price of replacing. But as far as me a finesse rod is something I'll be gentle with. I'll go custom because the odds of replacing one is slim to none unless a obvious defect in the blank. But this is just my preference. Btw my 2 main saltwater rods are St Croix avid surf 9'6 and mojo inshore 7'
Delaware Valley Tackle reply :
On 5/9/2015 at 1:20 AM, rippin-lips said:Mike, I am interested to hear your thoughts. Can you build a decent custom for $200? All these people are saying it's not possible, but I remember reading on here a few times where you said you could. At least I think I did.
It depends on what the goal is for the build and what you consider decent. I've sold a few at that price but that doesn't refute the main point the others are making. Sometimes a client is looking for a unique gift for an angler not as concerned with absolute top end performance (which doesn't mean junk either). For example I just shipped a Mother's Day / Birthday gift on a mid modulus Purple blank that was for a regular customer. Even though it was a "budget" build. It will fish very well and be one of a kind. When it comes to say, St Croix blanks, Scott is dead-on accurate that a custom build will not be at or less than a production rod on the same blank. As for the Gloomis analogy, a better custom can be built on NFC or other blanks and may cost a little less because the Gloomis are over priced. I don't quote based what I think the person is capable of paying. I charge for components, materials and my time and it is what it is for the most part. It makes me a little nuts when mass produced rods are sold as "Custom" or custom is defined as choosing your wrap colors on a cookie cutter build. There are all kinds of business models out there and too each their own, I'm not knocking anyone but it gets more difficult to explain the benefits of "Custom Rods" when the definition is not static.
WPCfishing reply :
You all have my curiosity up.. Who can build me a 6ft 3inch heavy rod for worming and jigging? 3/8-1 or 1 1/4, I want a straight 10" cork handle and a Fugi reel seat. I also want quality guides that sit close to the blank with double legs excluding the last 3 or 4.
I bought a Lews magnum One. Nice rod but to long for me to use properly. I fish standing in my canoe with an outrigger on it.
a1712 reply :
On 5/12/2015 at 4:16 AM, WPCfishing said:You all have my curiosity up.. Who can build me a 6ft 3inch heavy rod for worming and jigging? 3/8-1 or 1 1/4, I want a straight 10" cork handle and a Fugi reel seat. I also want quality guides that sit close to the blank with double legs excluding the last 3 or 4.
I bought a Lews magnum One. Nice rod but to long for me to use properly. I fish standing in my canoe with an outrigger on it.
Look at the post above yours, DVT. Brian.
WPCfishing reply :
On 5/12/2015 at 5:02 AM, a1712 said:Look at the post above yours, DVT. Brian.
I just pm'ed him.. Funny, I was on his website a week ago. I goggled worm& jig rod and his site came up in the search.
WPCfishing reply :
Information emailed to Brian. I'll be speaking with him later today. Thx for opening my eye guys.. The bubble has burst!
This is good news for me sense I couldn't find what I wanted anywhere. It's not offered by the manufacturers. I kinda get the feeling now I'll end up with a better rod because of this. I'm thinking a black blank with red thread and all cork straight grip on a Fugi style reel seat with 3 legged guides.
Delaware Valley Tackle reply :
On 5/12/2015 at 10:31 PM, WPCfishing said:Information emailed to Brian. I'll be speaking with him later today. Thx for opening my eye guys.. The bubble has burst!
This is good news for me sense I couldn't find what I wanted anywhere. It's not offered by the manufacturers. I kinda get the feeling now I'll end up with a better rod because of this. I'm thinking a black blank with red thread and all cork straight grip on a Fugi style reel seat with 3 legged guides.
Brian is A1712. My name is Mike Lawson. I look forward to talking later.
S Hovanec reply :
On 5/13/2015 at 2:37 AM, Delaware Valley Tackle said:My name is Mike Lawson.
I had a good laugh the other day when you friended me on FB. I was looking at the rod pics and recognized the one you did for Roadwarrior. I said to myself "that looks like the one DVT did, who the hell is Mike, and why is he posting pics of DVT's work". Then my brain engaged and it all clicked.
Delaware Valley Tackle reply :
On 5/13/2015 at 3:15 AM, S Hovanec said:I had a good laugh the other day when you friended me on FB. I was looking at the rod pics and recognized the one you did for Roadwarrior. I said to myself "that looks like the one DVT did, who the hell is Mike, and why is he posting pics of DVT's work". Then my brain engaged and it all clicked.
Lol. Sometimes I forget which I post as myself.
S Hovanec reply :
On 5/13/2015 at 3:30 AM, Delaware Valley Tackle said:Lol. Sometimes I forget which I post as myself.
I used to to admin on a buddy's FB page. I never knew who it would post as, Wet Net Charters, SH Fishin'Sticks, my dogs memorial page or me! It was a crapshoot. FB has gotten much better about that now.
WPCfishing reply :
On 5/13/2015 at 2:37 AM, Delaware Valley Tackle said:Brian is A1712. My name is Mike Lawson. I look forward to talking later.
Ok Mike!! lol
Capt.Bob reply :
On 5/12/2015 at 12:36 AM, Batson said:
Very True Capt. Bob.. FYI, do you know that the head designer that worked for St Croix for 17 years is Mike Thorson? Do you also know that Mike Thorson has been our VP of Engineering for 13 years since he left St Croix? You should check out the RainShadow line if you like the St Croix blanks! Hint Hint!
Yes I agree, and my rod builder builds more rods on RainShadow Blanks than any other. I think they offer a very good rod for the money.
I have one thing no other Rod manufacturer in the world offers, and that's the warranty options available from St. Croix. After over 30 years running my own Charters and Guiding, I fish for myself, and today I want the "best for me", regardless of cost. When I find a company that over and over again deliver flawless service and products,,,,, I keep coming back till one of those things change, The way it looks, I have no reason to look elsewhere at this time. But should that change, I would be more than happy to go with a RainShadow build.
WPCfishing reply :
Mike, it was really nice waiting for your call last night. Thank you for the hurry up and wait time.
EvanT123 reply :
I think it's funny when people complain about their off the shelf rods not being up to their standards. Like some guy in china gives a crap.
WPCfishing reply :
On 5/13/2015 at 1:08 PM, EvanT123 said:I think it's funny when people complain about their off the shelf rods not being up to their standards. Like some guy in china gives a crap.
LMAO good one!
Batson reply :
On 5/13/2015 at 10:27 AM, Capt.Bob said:Yes I agree, and my rod builder builds more rods on RainShadow Blanks than any other. I think they offer a very good rod for the money.
I have one thing no other Rod manufacturer in the world offers, and that's the warranty options available from St. Croix. After over 30 years running my own Charters and Guiding, I fish for myself, and today I want the "best for me", regardless of cost. When I find a company that over and over again deliver flawless service and products,,,,, I keep coming back till one of those things change, The way it looks, I have no reason to look elsewhere at this time. But should that change, I would be more than happy to go with a RainShadow build.
Thank you for the kind words Capt. Bob... Glad they have treated you well.
As in terms of warranty options, are you talking about a factory built rod or a custom? Most people in the custom market have a decent warranty. Ours is a limited lifetime. Even if you break it on purpose, you will still only pay a minimal fee to replace.
Warranties are a funny subject.. But different subject for a different time.
Delaware Valley Tackle reply :
On 5/13/2015 at 12:52 PM, WPCfishing said:Mike, it was really nice waiting for your call last night. Thank you for the hurry up and wait time.
My apology. We didn't set a time and I got your voice mail. As I said in the message call me at your convenience and I'll stop whatever I'm doing.
WPCfishing reply :
On 5/13/2015 at 10:12 PM, Delaware Valley Tackle said:My apology. We didn't set a time and I got your voice mail. As I said in the message call me at your convenience and I'll stop whatever I'm doing.
Just joking with you Mike, I'll call you today.
Wayne
roadwarrior reply :
Mike at DVT buitlt my first custom rod. I asked for the "Perfect Senko Rod" and relied
on his professional expertise in choosing components. I also sent him the reel I was
intending to dedicate to the rig so that he could tweak the balsnce and created a truely
personalized custom rod.
I will be working with Batson for my next build. The goal is a rod that is superior to the
G.Loomis NXR 893C and at a better price! The blank is an Immortal, Toray Rebel reel
seat and Alps Titanium Guides. Getting jazzed!
.ghoti. reply :
I've built three rods on Immortal blanks, none for myself, but I did have them out to give 'em a spin before they left my hands. All I can say is I think the Immortal series are the best bang-for-the-buck blanks you can find right now. They are very light and very sensitive. Seem to be strong as well. As far as durability goes, we'll have to wait and see. They haven't been out long enough to make that determination, but I'm betting they will hold up over time. They also offer a very wide selection of lengths, powers and actions.
Kent, I think you're going to be happy with your new stick.
Capt.Bob reply :
On 5/13/2015 at 10:07 PM, Batson said:Thank you for the kind words Capt. Bob... Glad they have treated you well.
As in terms of warranty options, are you talking about a factory built rod or a custom? Most people in the custom market have a decent warranty. Ours is a limited lifetime. Even if you break it on purpose, you will still only pay a minimal fee to replace.
Warranties are a funny subject.. But different subject for a different time.
St. Croix backs their custom "BLANK's" the same as their factory built rod's. the Builder you choose determines the accessories built to that blank. That's why I use the builder I do, he takes care of reinstalling everything else if there is a problem, as he does all the custom grip and cork work by hand and stands behind that, the guides are lifetime from recoil, and the fly/spin reel seats on the lighter rods, and one piece seats from fugi on the larger power rods, are easily removed and replaced, if one were damaged it would be a cost of the gripframe only, and that's pretty cheap. So I pick my builder the same way I do who I get my rods from,,,, so far I'm pretty pleased with both.
Delaware Valley Tackle reply :
On 5/14/2015 at 1:55 AM, Capt.Bob said:St. Croix backs their custom "BLANK's" the same as their factory built rod's. the Builder you choose determines the accessories built to that blank. That's why I use the builder I do, he takes care of reinstalling everything else if there is a problem, as he does all the custom grip and cork work by hand and stands behind that, the guides are lifetime from recoil, and the fly/spin reel seats on the lighter rods, and one piece seats from fugi on the larger power rods, are easily removed and replaced, if one were damaged it would be a cost of the gripframe only, and that's pretty cheap. So I pick my builder the same way I do who I get my rods from,,,, so far I'm pretty pleased with both.
Capt. good to see you back. A lot of time can go into a custom grip. When you say the builder stands behind his grips you mean if something happens to it, or he eats it if the blank goes kaput?
WPCfishing reply :
On 5/14/2015 at 12:32 AM, roadwarrior said:Mike at DVT buitlt my first custom rod. I asked for the "Perfect Senko Rod" and relied
on his professional expertise in choosing components. I also sent him the reel I was
intending to dedicate to the rig so that he could tweak the balsnce and created a truely
personalized custom rod.
I will be working with Batson for my next build. The goal is a rod that is superior to the
G.Loomis NXR 893C and at a better price! The blank is an Immortal, Toray Rebel reel
seat and Alps Titanium Guides. Getting jazzed!
That's good to hear.. Years ago I had 4 tuna rods built. I don't remember the builders name, I do remember he was a Native American living in Ct.
He built a superb rod.
I'm confident Mike will do a good job for me and price should be fair. If all goes well I'm going to get crazy and go it with all custom rods.
Capt.Bob reply :
On 5/14/2015 at 2:30 AM, Delaware Valley Tackle said:Capt. good to see you back. A lot of time can go into a custom grip. When you say the builder stands behind his grips you mean if something happens to it, or he eats it if the blank goes kaput?
Thanks!! good to be back! He will redo all his work If the rod fails, when he builds me a rod on a lifetime blank, he rebuilds the rod with the same materials he built it with in the beginning, so yes he can save that grip and put it back on. If I would break a handle,,,, I don't know how,,,, I would think he would charge me to fix that, but to take that handle off and put all the components back on a broken rod,,,, he covers it, and yes I have seen him remove a handle from a broken blank, after St. Croix has been contacted. He reams the rod out of the handle material, and it is just as new. I had a cork on a rod that was left in the boat over winter that he had built. I had a mouse get in it and chewed on that front grip, another builder said he would have to remove the guides and do it from the front, cost was not worth it. He removed the bad section, made a new ring, fractured it so it wasn't a cut seam to be noticeable when epoxied back together, fit it and put it back in between the two good sections and you couldn't tell it was ever broke,,,, thats with a multi color front grip made with ring sections to begin with, without removing any guides, and it looks like new and you can't find the repair!! Said it took about a half hour, cost me $15.00
Batson reply :
On 5/14/2015 at 12:32 AM, roadwarrior said:Mike at DVT buitlt my first custom rod. I asked for the "Perfect Senko Rod" and relied
on his professional expertise in choosing components. I also sent him the reel I was
intending to dedicate to the rig so that he could tweak the balsnce and created a truely
personalized custom rod.
I will be working with Batson for my next build. The goal is a rod that is superior to the
G.Loomis NXR 893C and at a better price! The blank is an Immortal, Toray Rebel reel
seat and Alps Titanium Guides. Getting jazzed!
Great to hear this!! Thank you so much for the support. We have found the the Immortal is on par with most of the "HM" blanks that are out there. The Eternity2 is a bit better in all areas. Toray reel seat, well enough said when its the only pure carbon fiber reel seat. Its expensive, but if your building the ultimate rod, it is the best choice. Wow ALPS Titanium too, your going all out roadwarrior!
On 5/14/2015 at 1:08 AM, .ghoti. said:I've built three rods on Immortal blanks, none for myself, but I did have them out to give 'em a spin before they left my hands. All I can say is I think the Immortal series are the best bang-for-the-buck blanks you can find right now. They are very light and very sensitive. Seem to be strong as well. As far as durability goes, we'll have to wait and see. They haven't been out long enough to make that determination, but I'm betting they will hold up over time. They also offer a very wide selection of lengths, powers and actions.
Kent, I think you're going to be happy with your new stick.
Great to hear!!! We need to get you an Immortal for yourself! Thank you for the kind words! If we can help in anyway, please let us know!
roadwarrior reply :
On 5/15/2015 at 12:49 AM, Batson said:Great to hear this!! Thank you so much for the support. We have found the the Immortal is on par with most of the "HM" blanks that are out there. The Eternity2 is a bit better in all areas. Toray reel seat, well enough said when its the only pure carbon fiber reel seat. Its expensive, but if your building the ultimate rod, it is the best choice. Wow ALPS Titanium too, your going all out roadwarrior!
Great to hear!!! We need to get you an Immortal for yourself! Thank you for the kind words! If we can help in anyway, please let us know!
I must have misread my notes...Correction: I will be using the Eternity2 blank.
-Kent
Delaware Valley Tackle reply :
On 5/15/2015 at 1:08 AM, roadwarrior said:I must have misread my notes...Correction: I will be using the Eternity2 blank.
-Kent
I guessed as much. I enjoy the reviews of the Mods, staff and members here and look forward to your impressions.
.ghoti. reply :
On 5/15/2015 at 1:08 AM, roadwarrior said:I must have misread my notes...Correction: I will be using the Eternity2 blank.
-Kent
Might be even better. I've planned to go with the E2 blank when I get time build one for myself. I'll be very interested to hear your review.
Delaware Valley Tackle reply :
I wish the E2 came in the Titanium color. I've used some in earlier generation models and the color is very sharp.
S Hovanec reply :
On 5/15/2015 at 9:02 PM, Delaware Valley Tackle said:I wish the E2 came in the Titanium color.
It can, if you order enough of a single model!
Delaware Valley Tackle reply :
I'll keep that in mind when I launch my new brand. Lol
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