Palomar Knot Vs. Improved Clinch Knot 2024

countryfried reply :

title says it all, which do you give the edge too ???

kylek reply :

I use the polomar knot for everything I fish with.

islandbass reply :

The edge in what regard? Strength? Convenience in tying? The reason I ask is because these are my two primary knots and the situation I am in dictates which I will most likely use.

Strength

The Palomar in terms of strength might have a little edge but it probably isn't by much.

Convenience

The Palomar is easier to tie for sure, less steps and therefore less chances to screw it up.

On the other hand, having to make a large loop to accommodate larger lures IMHO is a waste of line and time, not to mention the risk of weakening the lure during the final tightening when you're impatient to get to fishing as you tighten up.

This is where the improved clinch knot comes in because the size of the lure does not influence the knot tying.

Situations

Small lures, hooks, quick and simple? ==> Palomar Knot

Larger lures like 1/2 jigs with skirts, larger jerk baits and crank baits ==> Improved Clinch Knot

Super cold, sub freezing weather? Palomar, fo sho'. You know it's bitter cold when it takes you 30 seconds to tie a palomar knot, lol.

Braid or fishing the drop shot? ==> Palomar.

tomustang reply :

I don't give an edge to any, both are very good knots.

BFG79 reply :

I use the palomar with mono and the improved clinch with fluro

JamesD reply :

The improved clinch is the only knot I learned for tying lures and I can average a tie on in less than a minute now... sometimes braided line takes a bit longer but mono makes it easy...

steelslinger86 reply :

palomar

SirSnookalot reply :

Just about any knot tied correctly is going to work well. It is not my nature to over think and over analyze, I keep things as simple as possible. If any knot fails chances are it was tied poorly or it has been fatigued and needs to be retied.

I cannot remember a bass of any size, whether it was in open water or slop, where my ordinary clinch failed. I keep the same knots on both my swivel and leaders for weeks without re tying.

Jumping it up just a little bit, I catch a lot of saltwater fish, not to be condescending but those fish are bigger, stronger, faster and don't come in near as quick, yet the clinch or improved clinch does not fail.........I make sure I tie them right, it they aren't I tie it over until it is right. If the palomar is "your knot", no reason not to say with it.

Quite honestly I don't see a 5 or 10# fish breaking any knot, tie it right and you won't have a problem. The key to whatever knot you are using is your drag, the drag takes a lot of stress off the the knot.

Sam reply :

^{At last year's Boy Scout Jamboree I worked the Berkley/Shakespear booth where we had one of Berkley's line strength tester machine.}

^{The scouts would use 10 pound mono and tie their favorite knots.}

^{The Palamore was the strongest time after time after time.}

^{I use the Palamore on all baits, even spinnerbaits and jigs, but you have to have patient to tie it correctly as the skirts get tangled up in the process.}

SirSnookalot reply :

Sam, the machines used for knot strength I believe do not allow for a drag. In reality we do not fish with the drag locked down as tight as it goes, at least I don't. In no way am I questioning the strength of the palomar, just don't think a machine fishes like an experienced human.

LgMouthGambler reply :

I use the palomar for braid only. I use the original clinch knot for my nylon lines.

OK Bass Hunter reply :

Used to use nothing but the improved clinch till I learned the Palomar now it's just about the only thing I use.

M-D reply :

On 6/27/2012 at 10:37 AM, islandbass said:

The edge in what regard? Strength? Convenience in tying? The reason I ask is because these are my two primary knots and the situation I am in dictates which I will most likely use.

Strength

The Palomar in terms of strength might have a little edge but it probably isn't by much.

Convenience

The Palomar is easier to tie for sure, less steps and therefore less chances to screw it up.

On the other hand, having to make a large loop to accommodate larger lures IMHO is a waste of line and time, not to mention the risk of weakening the lure during the final tightening when you're impatient to get to fishing as you tighten up.

This is where the improved clinch knot comes in because the size of the lure does not influence the knot tying.

Situations

Small lures, hooks, quick and simple? ==> Palomar Knot

Larger lures like 1/2 jigs with skirts, larger jerk baits and crank baits ==> Improved Clinch Knot

Super cold, sub freezing weather? Palomar, fo sho'. You know it's bitter cold when it takes you 30 seconds to tie a palomar knot, lol.

Braid or fishing the drop shot? ==> Palomar.

^^This^^ pretty well sums it up for me too.

out_doors_guy reply :

Palomar knot, hands down. Higher knot strength (IMO) and way easier to tie.

hike4steel reply :

palomar

James Yalem reply :

For many years I used the improved clinck knot. I could tie it in seconds in the dark. But then in the early 1990's, I switched to braid line. The improved clinch does not work with braid line, but the palomar does. So for the last 20 years, I have used the palomar knot. Now without my reading glasses, I can't see the loops to tie knots like the improved clinch in low light. So I use the palomar knot.

Capt.Bob reply :

Use them both, there both great knots and very reliable. I use the Improved clinch most, just because it takes less line most times, I usually can tie the clinch without leaving a tail that needs trimmed, not always but hard to do with the palomar, and as stated, impossible with cranks and bulky tackle.

B@ssCrzy reply :

I use palomar for braid and improved clinch for mono. Both are great knots.

thehooligan reply :

On 6/28/2012 at 11:11 AM, B@ssCrzy said:

I use palomar for braid and improved clinch for mono. Both are great knots.

same here

SirSnookalot reply :

For those that have had trouble using the improved clinch with braid, this a tip I saw on a inshore SW program, and it works. Before cinching down your knot give it an extra wrap around the loop. Personally I only do this when I'm offshore ocean, inshore the standard improved clinch works just fine.

QUAKEnSHAKE reply :

I only use braid. I use the knot in the PowerPro manual -through the eye twice UNI knot - beat the palomar knot in the knot wars testing

Basswhippa reply :

On 6/27/2012 at 7:09 PM, OK Bass Hunter said:

Used to use nothing but the improved clinch till I learned the Palomar now it's just about the only thing I use.

What OK Bss Hunter said!

Bankbeater reply :

I use the palomar for jigs and plastics. I use the clinch knot for anything with a treble hook, or with spinnerbaits.

Sam reply :

On 6/27/2012 at 2:49 PM, SirSnookalot said:

Sam, the machines used for knot strength I believe do not allow for a drag. In reality we do not fish with the drag locked down as tight as it goes, at least I don't. In no way am I questioning the strength of the palomar, just don't think a machine fishes like an experienced human.

Sir, of course you are correct.

But to take the same pressure for different knots and notice that the Palomar was heads and shoulders above the others, especially the two clinch knots, was interesting to witness.

So I use the Palomar knot excusively.

A-Rob reply :

On 6/27/2012 at 12:17 PM, BFG79 said:

I use the palomar with mono and the improved clinch with fluro

but i have switched to san diego jam for fc more recently and love it

SirSnookalot reply :

On 6/29/2012 at 6:53 PM, Sam said:

Sir, of course you are correct.

But to take the same pressure for different knots and notice that the Palomar was heads and shoulders above the others, especially the two clinch knots, was interesting to witness.

So I use the Palomar knot excusively.

I'm not trying to convince anyone should change, just saying the clinch and improved clinch knot do the job.

bigbassctchr101 reply :

The palamor is the strongest of these two by far. I believe I heard the clinch is only 80% knot strength because the way its designed, it will cut into itself. That being said, I tie a palamor usually. With the exception of a crankbait. I can tie a clinch in about 15 seconds and I beat the bottom hard and have to re-tie a lot with my crankbaits. So, the knot will rarely ever be my weakest link...it will probably be the knicks and abrasion from beating on cover.

On flouro line I use a knot Shaw Grigsby ties on most baits (he didn't know the name of it), but its also designed not to cut into itself at all.

On braid I use a braid knot, except I double the line and do an extra half hitch thru the bottom loop.

Albright knot to cinch two lines together (mono-mono, braid-mono, all of it...)

Jim_M reply :

an Diego Jam for lures including jigs. SO much easier for these tired industrial fingers.

Palomar for hooks.

KingMidas reply :

I exclusively use the improved clinch knot. If you tie it enough, you'll eventually get to a point where the time it takes becomes a non issue. While I'm sure that a Palomar knot is still quicker to tie, I can tie a clinch in about 15 seconds. Actually, I add an extra "locking" step to the improved clinch that I learned from the back of a pack of mustad hooks. It's hard to explain but essentially it involves putting the tag through the loop made when passing the tag through the original loop made in a normal improved clinch. I guess since I learned the Palomar when I was a kid I just assumed the improved clinch was better. More steps equated to a stronger knot in my mind. After reading some of these responses, however, I'm going to give the palomar a try once again. That being said, I love the way an improved clinch balls up solidly with fluorocarbon.

DON1937 reply :

I fished for several years in saltwater.....bays and surf and never knew the name of the knot I was using. Just now went to a site called Animated Knots and discovered that I was using the Palomar Knot all along.

Bair reply :

Palomar. Works with mono, works with fluoro, and it works with braid. Sounds like a winner to me.

Avery reply :

I use either the clinch or improved clinch knot for everything.

onetime reply :

I use improved clinch (and other knots) for flouro and mono, palomar for braid.

S. Sass reply :

Palomar

- Works with mono and braid (the only lines I use)

- Extremely strong in most any test ever tried

- Very simple to tie correctly for guys with big fingers and not the greatest dexterity

Choporoz reply :

When this thread began, I only used improved clinch....my father called it the Fisherman's Knot.

Now, I don't use it at all. Palomar for braid and (now Gliss); San Diego Jam for everything else. I had some issues with Improved Clinch early this year - breaking and slipping on lighter test. Spent an evening or two tying and retying SDJ while watching TV. Now, it's as easy for me as improved clinch.

Yudo1 reply :

Like some others, I use Palomar with braid and improved clinch with fluoro. I don't use mono.

Bass_Fishing_Socal reply :

I think Im not jn the group then. I dont use neither.

I used to tie clinch knot but feel itis not strong enough. Now i only use trilene knot for everything, rapala loop knot for hard bait. And sandiago jam when I need more secure heavy lure.p

Big Bait Fishing reply :

i use the improved clinch for everything , only time i use a palomar knot is when rigging a drop shot .

BrianinMD reply :

Both are quality knots, use what you are comfortable with and can tie consistently.

J Francho reply :

It really depends on the line. I use the ICK with confidence tying spinnerbait, buzzbait, top-water, cranks, etc. directly or to a split ring using strong co-poly or mono. For braid, I prefer a Uni or Palomar. Fluoro, the Palomar and Uni get the nod over anything else. If I wanted to simplify, I'd say you can use a well tied Uni for anything, though.

The caveat with any knot: well tied.

Team9nine reply :

Is there an award for oldest post ever successfully resurrected???

...oh, and Palomar, hands down

-T9

kickerfish1 reply :

I use the improved clynch not for everything no matter the line type or size.

Caliyak reply :

On 6/28/2012 at 11:11 AM, B@ssCrzy said:

I use palomar for braid and improved clinch for mono. Both are great knots.

I do the same plus the uni for braid.

OCdockskipper reply :

Palomar for hooks (Wacky, T-rig, dropshot) and small jigs, ICK for lures.

I don't like making the giant loop needed for tying the palomar to a large lure. I am comfortable with the knot strength of both.

redbirdsfan44 reply :

This really depends on your line choice. Palomar is an excellent choice for most fishing lines. If you are using fluoro though a palomar is going to be a weaker knot. Because Fluoro is a denser, more abrasive line you weaken your knot by tying a palomar. Albright is one of your best options with fluoro.

J Francho reply :

On 9/28/2016 at 12:53 AM, redbirdsfan44 said:

This really depends on your line choice. Palomar is an excellent choice for most fishing lines. If you are using fluoro though a palomar is going to be a weaker knot. Because Fluoro is a denser, more abrasive line you weaken your knot by tying a palomar. Albright is one of your best options with fluoro.

Palomar weaker with fluoro? Simply not true with a well tied knot. Maybe a poorly tied Palomar. But then again, any poorly tied knot will fail, and fluoro separates the men from boys when it comes to knots.

I'm not sure what you mean by "Albright is one of your best options with fluoro." The Albright is a line to line connection knot. What knot would you recommend for a terminal connection?

redbirdsfan44 reply :

On 9/28/2016 at 1:01 AM, J Francho said:

Palomar weaker with fluoro? Simply not true with a well tied knot. Maybe a poorly tied Palomar. But then again, any poorly tied knot will fail, and fluoro separates the men from boys when it comes to knots.

I'm not sure what you mean by "Albright is one of your best options with fluoro." The Albright is a line to line connection knot. What knot would you recommend for a terminal connection?

Pictured is the knot that I use with Fluoro which I was taught long ago as the albright. The palomar knot ties tight to the main line and when pressure is applied pulls the knot tighter on the main line weakening it. With the knot I know as the albright knot the knot itself is tight tot he eye of the hook and tied correctly can be slid back up the main line. When pressure is applied the knot cinches tighter to the eye of the hook rather than the main line.

As for a terminal connection knot I tie the knot that I am guessing you are referring to as the albright knot.

studying that picture a little more I see that is a uni knot and not the actual knot I tie that I know as the albright @J Francho

J Francho reply :

That is a clinch knot, oft cited as notoriously bad with fluoro, though my friend Noel "No" Good uses it, and has a few big (over 6 lb.) smallies under his belt.

This is an Albright:

http://www.animatedknots.com/albright/index.php#ScrollPoint

redbirdsfan44 reply :

On 9/28/2016 at 1:13 AM, J Francho said:

That is a clinch knot, oft cited as notoriously bad with fluoro, though my friend Noel "No" Good uses it, and has a few big (over 6 lb.) smallies under his belt.

This is an Albright:

http://www.animatedknots.com/albright/index.php#ScrollPoint

That is the knot I use to link braid to mono/fluoro. I cannot find any depiction of the knot I use for Fluoro. I will see If I can't find something

J Francho reply :

About the closest you'll find is the Improved Clinch Knot, improved by passing the tag end back through the large loop. I use it a lot with strong copolymer lines, like CXX or Silverthread.

http://www.animatedknots.com/improvedclinch/index.php?Categ=fishing&LogoImage=LogoGrog.png&Website=www.animatedknots.com#ScrollPoint

Also, the pic you posted is MOST DEFINITELY a Clinch knot, not a Uni.

This is a Uni:

http://www.animatedknots.com/duncan/#ScrollPoint

redbirdsfan44 reply :

I know a lot of different knots and that's definitely not what i use nor recommend with fluoro

J Francho reply :

A Uni knot is also a very strong knot for fluoro. I don't doubt you know many knots, just not sure you have the names right. Makes it difficult to have a discussion.

Bottom line, the whole buzz that this or that knot isn't good with fluoro is pretty much nonsense. Almost all knots I've tried hold very well, PROVIDED THEY ARE WELL TIED. Nylon and copoly were forgiving with poorly tied knots. Not so much with Fluoro. You have tie knots carefully. Any deformation before the knot, and you failed; time to retie.

Oklahoma Mike reply :

faygo1979 reply :

palomar But I use a Uni for everything now a days it may not be the best but I have the most consistent with it on every type of line.

j bab reply :

I first found this tip while learning how to fly fish. I DO NOT understand why conventional fishermen don't know this trick!

It is seriously so. much. faster.

edit: obviously most of you don't use forceps. Just use your needlenose that you use to unhook fish and clip your line with.

Big Bait Fishing reply :

On 9/28/2016 at 4:56 AM, j bab said:

I first found this tip while learning how to fly fish. I DO NOT understand why conventional fishermen don't know this trick!

It is seriously so. much. faster.

edit: obviously most of you don't use forceps. Just use your needlenose that you use to unhook fish and clip your line with.

wish i could make a short video clip ! i can tie an improved clinch a lot faster than that , maybe i'll work on it (video)

QUAKEnSHAKE reply :

SOME KNOT WARS DATA

Knot----------------------- Mono---------Braid---------Fluoro---------Average------Overall Rank

Berkley Braid-----------19.82---------17.36--- ------19.69-----------18.957----------1

Fish-N-Fool------------ 20.54---* ----19.44------ ---15.21-----------18.397----------2

Burke Knot-------------19.32----------18.62--------16.49-----------18.143----------3

Triple Loop-~~-----------18.49----------16.07-------~~***19.74-----------18.100----------4

Imp.Reverse Clinch -17.67 ---------18.96--------16.46-----------17.697----------5

San Diego Jam-------17.76----------17.84--------15.25-----------16.950----------6

Miller Knot -------------20.13---------15.66--------14.94------------16.910----------7

Palomar----------------17.37----------17.36--------15.11-----------16.613---------- 8

Porter-------------------19.89----------10.87--------18.76-----------16.507-----------9

Grinner-----------------17.10----------17.50--------14.90-----------16.500----------10

Cheek Knot-----------19.27----------13.95--------15.97-----------16.397-----------11

Eugene Bend---------17.78----------15.70-------14.64-----------16.040-----------12

Trilene------------------17.58----------14.32-------14.97-----------15.623-----------13

Gryp--------------------17.80----------14.68--------14.29-----------15.590-----------14

Three "G"-------------18.83------------9.71--------15.73-----------14.757-----------15

Improved Clinch-----16.12-----------7.22--------14.01------------12.450-----------16

Notes

riverbasser reply :

On 9/28/2016 at 10:10 AM, QUAKEnSHAKE said:

SOME KNOT WARS DATA

Knot----------------------- Mono---------Braid---------Fluoro---------Average------Overall Rank

Berkley Braid-----------19.82---------17.36--- ------19.69-----------18.957----------1

Fish-N-Fool------------ 20.54---* ----19.44------ ---15.21-----------18.397----------2

Burke Knot-------------19.32----------18.62--------16.49-----------18.143----------3

Triple Loop-~~-----------18.49----------16.07-------~~***19.74-----------18.100----------4

Imp.Reverse Clinch -17.67 ---------18.96--------16.46-----------17.697----------5

San Diego Jam-------17.76----------17.84--------15.25-----------16.950----------6

Miller Knot -------------20.13---------15.66--------14.94------------16.910----------7

Palomar----------------17.37----------17.36--------15.11-----------16.613---------- 8

Porter-------------------19.89----------10.87--------18.76-----------16.507-----------9

Grinner-----------------17.10----------17.50--------14.90-----------16.500----------10

Cheek Knot-----------19.27----------13.95--------15.97-----------16.397-----------11

Eugene Bend---------17.78----------15.70-------14.64-----------16.040-----------12

Trilene------------------17.58----------14.32-------14.97-----------15.623-----------13

Gryp--------------------17.80----------14.68--------14.29-----------15.590-----------14

Three "G"-------------18.83------------9.71--------15.73-----------14.757-----------15

Improved Clinch-----16.12-----------7.22--------14.01------------12.450-----------16

Notes

What do the numbers represent?

QUAKEnSHAKE reply :

I guess that would help huh

15 pound test mono

14 pound test braid

15 pound fluoro

the numbers represent the pounds at which the line or knot broke.

Here is an example of testing and they mention line use

scaleface reply :

If you like the improved cinch , then why not start tying the Trilene knot . They are very similar and the Trilene like the palomar is a 100 per cent knot .

J Francho reply :

On 9/28/2016 at 10:10 AM, QUAKEnSHAKE said:

SOME KNOT WARS DATA

I think it's better to test your own knots with a scale, than rely on data that has so much mystery behind it. Who tied the knots? How many tests were conducted? What brand lines were used? And many more unknowns.

I used to do a demonstration at my seminars. Paul (my presenter partner) and I would each tie a Palomar, and test the knot on a scale. We used 6# Invisx (well used, I might add). He rarely got over 4# with his knot. I always got over 6. Paul would change to a knot of his own invention and get right around 6#. I can't even tie the knot he uses. It's variation of a knot used by Alaskan salmon fly guides.

Knot strength is and always will be about the how well you tie it. There are knots I can tie, but don't use. Why? Because I don't tie them well, even after practicing. I can't tell you how frustrating it is to not be able to tie a good FG connection. It's so slick, fast, easy, and really an elegant knot. Mine all fail. So, I use a Alberto, or a triple surgeon's on lighter lines. They only break if I lock down, and intentionally break the leader.

Darren. reply :

On 9/28/2016 at 10:52 PM, J Francho said:

Knot strength is and always will be about the how well you tie it. There are knots I can tie, but don't use. Why? Because I don't tie them well, even after practicing. I can't tell you how frustrating it is to not be able to tie a good FG connection. It's so slick, fast, easy, and really an elegant knot. Mine all fail. So, I use a Alberto, or a triple surgeon's on lighter lines. They only break if I lock down, and intentionally break the leader.

Well stated. I, too, simply gave up on the FG for same
reason. I just can't tie it well.

I stick with those I'm good at. Alberto/Albrights, the
Uni-to-Uni, single Uni, clinch, Palomar.

J Francho reply :

Yeah but, we're told over and over ad nauseum that the FG is the BEST knot for connections.

swandog reply :

On 9/28/2016 at 11:35 PM, J Francho said:

Yeah but, we're told over and over ad nauseum that the FG is the BEST knot for connections.

I know but I can't seem to tie it correctly either, atleast to the point of being able to trust it. I'll stick with the Alberto as well.

Darren. reply :

On 9/28/2016 at 11:35 PM, J Francho said:

Yeah but, we're told over and over ad nauseum that the FG is the BEST knot for connections.

IMO, it ain't the best if I can't tie it out on my kayak.

Those who say otherwise, at least on some occasions,
say they tie them at home the night before and use
something else on the water.

To that I say WHY? If what is tied on the water is good
enough, then use it all the time!

J Francho reply :

And that's why I cringe when there's debates over what is the better knot, and stats are flaunted around, and tempers rise, lol.

If you can't tie the knot, it's always going to be the WORST KNOT TO USE, no matter what the consensus it.

Yudo1 reply :

I'll also stick with the Alberto. My fg knot comes unwound too often at the wrong time.

fishwizzard reply :

I use a Trilene knot for all hook and lure connections, except when I have to use a loop knot. I tried the Palomar for a while but I hate how much leader it eats up and I can't tie it well without leaving a long dead end that needs to be cut off.

PAfishing reply :

I have always used the improved clinch, caught monsters without breaks.

Mosster47 reply :

Palomar for braid, improved clinch for everything else.

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