Do You Know Where This Stuff Is Actually Built? 2024
roadwarrior reply :
So many rumors about who makes what. For example are BPS reels built by Quantum,
Pflueger or just the low bid? Are Lews just another version of Abu Garcia built in the same
facility? Here is a list of names that I am curious about:
Shimano
Pinnacle
Abu Garcia
Lews
Pflueger
BPS
Cabela's
Quantum
Diawa
Penn
Zebco
Please add other brands if you know who builds them and/or where they are made.
flyfisher reply :
I too am interested i this type of information. I just hope anyone who has information isn't just what they heard but has some sort of concrete source for the data.
Darren. reply :
On 1/20/2014 at 12:22 AM, flyfisher said:I too am interested i this type of information. I just hope anyone who has information isn't just what they heard but has some sort of concrete source for the data.
x2. We're not talking country of origin, right RW?
aavery2 reply :
There are several mfg's of fishing reels and fishing related products in Korea, two of the bigger Korean companies that produce reels for Browning, BPS and a few others that you will be familiar with are Doyo and Dawon. Do a search on the forums here and you will find that same information and links to the company websites where you will see actual pictures of Browning and BPS reels.
Sam reply :
Fantastic post! I am sure many of us are thinking of this in the past but have no way of finding out.
First, are the components made in the USA and shipped overseas to have the reels constructed as per the manufacturer's specifications?
Or second, do the components come from the foreign countries and the entire reel is constructed overseas?
I do not have a problem with any foreign country other than Viet Nam as I still refuse to purchase anything from that country.
Hope we can get some clarification on what is made where.
I do know that major league baseballs are made in the Dominican Republic. Or is it Haiti?????
Fishwhittler reply :
Abu's low-profile reels, Lew's reels, Pflueger baitcasters, and the BPS Pro Qualifier and Johnny Morris Signature Series baitcasters are all made by Doyo in Korea. Abu Garcia's round reels from the C3 on up are still made in Sweden.
Shimano makes most of their upper-end reels in Japan, though they also have their own factory in Malaysia to build their lower-cost reels from the Curado G on down. I believe the Malaysian factory is owned by Shimano, not just a contractor. Could be wrong.
Silstar Corporation owns Pinnacle, and also produces reels for Ardent Evercast, W&M, and Halo. Production is based in China, if you check the bottom of the reel foot.
Daiwa is similar to Shimano in that most or all of their high-end reels are made in Japan, but some of their cheaper reels are built at Daiwa-owned factories in other countries. I believe Daiwa uses South Korea and Taiwan as the bases for those other factories.
Not sure on the other companies listed. Zebco owns Quantum, for whatever that's worth, so they're probably built in the same country. Cabelas doesn't use just one manufacturer. They've got some Daiwa reels, some Okuma, and a few that I think are Quantum. BPS also uses multiple companies, mainly Quantum and Doyo. Though, I think the Johnny Morris Carbonlite is actually built by another company, Dawon. Not sure on country of origin, probably Korea or Taiwan.
aavery2 reply :
Dawon is a South Korea based company
roadwarrior reply :
On 1/20/2014 at 1:56 AM, Fishwhittler said:Abu's low-profile reels, Lew's reels, Pflueger baitcasters, and the BPS Pro Qualifier and Johnny Morris Signature Series baitcasters are all made by Doyo in Korea. Abu Garcia's round reels from the C3 on up are still made in Sweden.
Shimano makes most of their upper-end reels in Japan, though they also have their own factory in Malaysia to build their lower-cost reels from the Curado G on down. I believe the Malaysian factory is owned by Shimano, not just a contractor. Could be wrong.
Silstar Corporation owns Pinnacle, and also produces reels for Ardent Evercast, W&M, and Halo. Production is based in China, if you check the bottom of the reel foot.
Daiwa is similar to Shimano in that most or all of their high-end reels are made in Japan, but some of their cheaper reels are built at Daiwa-owned factories in other countries. I believe Daiwa uses South Korea and Taiwan as the bases for those other factories.
Not sure on the other companies listed. Zebco owns Quantum, for whatever that's worth, so they're probably built in the same country. Cabelas doesn't use just one manufacturer. They've got some Daiwa reels, some Okuma, and a few that I think are Quantum. BPS also uses multiple companies, mainly Quantum and Doyo. Though, I think the Johnny Morris Carbonlite is actually built by another company, Dawon. Not sure on country of origin, probably Korea or Taiwan.
Thank you!
Just what I was looking for.
bflp3 reply :
So are the designs created by Doyo and sold to these other companies? I was very surprised when I found a post with pictures of a Lews tournament pro being taken apart, and the design was identical to the pro qualifier, but you could see some parts were different material(like the drag washers).
Is it just a licensed design built to specification?
aavery2 reply :
If you can raise the money to order a min of 500 pcs you can have Doyo or Dawon build a reel for you using their components.
Fishwhittler reply :
On 1/20/2014 at 4:05 AM, bflp3 said:So are the designs created by Doyo and sold to these other companies? I was very surprised when I found a post with pictures of a Lews tournament pro being taken apart, and the design was identical to the pro qualifier, but you could see some parts were different material(like the drag washers).
Is it just a licensed design built to specification?
You could take the clutch out of any of those reels and swap it into another one, and it'd fit perfectly. The gears might be a different size, different materials are used for drag washers, handles, spools and braking systems are slightly different, and of course the reel profile varies, but all of the reels are built by Doyo to another company's specs.
I prefer to see companies like Lew's and Pflueger as importers.
rippin-lips reply :
This is exactly what makes me wanna try one of those $30 china made baitcasters you see all over eBay. I'm willing to bet it's darn near the same inside and might perform just as well. If it doesn't then I'm not out anything really.
roadwarrior reply :
Yeah, if you already have what you need and thirty bucks is no big deal, that's fine.
However, if you are young man looking for equipment to fish with for awhile, I think
these Chinese deals are terrible.
TiNuts reply :
I'm pretty sure those china deals are largely the same reels we pay hundreds for. They may be leftover parts left from an order, but they're the same parts.
We pay for shipping to US, advertising and marketing, trade shows, CEO perks, employee salaries, and the ever increasing shareholder return. The retailers also need to make a profit from selling these reels.
I do know the employee purchase program for a large fishing company is 70% off retail, and in sure they still make a profit from that, if that gives you any idea what kind of markup there is.
So if you take $150 reel, with 70% off its $45. Profit still made. It probably cost the fishing co $20 to make this reel. It probably cost the factory in china, Korea, wherever, a handful of dollars to make the reel.
Markups are usually determined with percentages, therefore the higher the reel's retail, also the higher the markup.
rippin-lips reply :
On 1/20/2014 at 5:36 AM, roadwarrior said:Yeah, if you already have what you need and thirty bucks is no big deal, that's fine.
However, if you are young man looking for equipment to fish with for awhile, I think
these Chinese deals are terrible.
That's what I'm getting at though. How do we know if someone doesn't tear into one. It could be 99% identical to say a revo and we have no idea because we are stuck on brand names. Example the academy h20 mettle. Apparently it's quite the reel for $50 or whatever the price is. It could be that reel in a different color or just have different grips on it.
Fishwhittler reply :
The Mettle is built by Daiwa. It uses the same clutch as the Lexa 100, with a slightly different frame.On 1/20/2014 at 6:57 AM, rippin-lips said:That's what I'm getting at though. How do we know if someone doesn't tear into one. It could be 99% identical to say a revo and we have no idea because we are stuck on brand names. Example the academy h20 mettle. Apparently it's quite the reel for $50 or whatever the price is. It could be that reel in a different color or just have different grips on it.
A lot of the el-cheapo reels on eBay have graphite frames. That's what I'd avoid, first and foremost. As far as I'm concerned, graphite simply isn't a suitable material for a baitcast reel frame.
Hooligan reply :
Shimano- Built in proprietary factories and production lines wholly owned by Shimano one facility in Malaysia and one in Japan
Pinnacle- Owned by Silstar, built by Dawon, Doyo, Kaito, or one of a couple other Chinese Manufacturers
Abu Garcia- Pure Fishing can be built by Dawon, Doyo, or Kaito on the upper end reels. Lower and mid range reels are generally of "farmed" Chinese origin; IE: They can be built at any one of the Chinese factories in lots, there is no guarantee which factory they are coming from, generally.
Lews- Generally built by Doyo and Dawon, with lower end reels being made at either Korean, Sri Lankan, or Chinese facilities.
Pflueger Pure Fishing can be built by Dawon, Doyo, or Kaito on the upper end reels. Lower and mid range reels are generally of "farmed" Chinese origin; IE: They can be built at any one of the Chinese factories in lots, there is no guarantee which factory they are coming from, generally.
BPS- BPS Reels are built much the same as Pure Fishing, and Lews- The caveat being that they are the owners of the tooling. In other cases, the bid goes to the mfr to include tooling.
Cabela's- Can be made in any number of facilities, from Daiwa's own to Dawon and Doyo. As well, they can be of Chinese origin.
Quantum- Mostly made in Chinese facility that shares manufacture of Zebco reels as well. Some are made in a Korean facility, it is unclear of whose facility it actually is. Some say that it is wholly owned by quantum, while Zebco/Quantum deny that is the case.
Diawa Have facilities for OEM mfr in both Japan and Korea. A small Malay facility as well.
Penn- See Pure Fishing- Some Penn Reels are still made in the USA, some are made in China and Korea
Zebco- see Quantum
Rods- generally are made in any number of facilities in China or Korea. With few exceptions on the higher end rods.
How do you know the parts aren't the same? 99.8% of the Chinese reels will be similar, however, the parts will be stamped rather than machined, lower quality metals are used, and lower quality components. Quantum is notorious for this, as is Pure Fishing.
Jaheff reply :
What about Okuma? I've heard they only make their own, and parts for others?
Raul reply :
Shimano makes Shimano
Daiwa makes Daiwa and Daiwa has made reels for Cabela´s and BPS
The rest ? well, I don´t know because I only purchase reels from those 2
webertime reply :
On 1/20/2014 at 12:22 PM, Jaheff said:What about Okuma? I've heard they only make their own, and parts for others?
Tica (China) makes/owns Okuma.
SirSnookalot reply :
On 1/20/2014 at 7:16 AM, Fishwhittler said:As far as I'm concerned, graphite simply isn't a suitable material for a baitcast reel frame.
Shimano's TLD is graphite and has been a very well respected reel, especially with charter captains. Certainly not their top end but built like Sherman tank.
Avet reels made in California.
Hooligan reply :
On 1/21/2014 at 3:31 AM, SirSnookalot said:Shimano's TLD is graphite and has been a very well respected reel, especially with charter captains. Certainly not their top end but built like Sherman tank.
Avet reels made in California.
Most mid-upper end salt reels are a completely different ball game. In almost all cases, the company that has their name on the reel is the manufacturer of said reel. Avet, Daiwa, Shimano, Penn, Fin-Nor, Okuma. Granted there are some exceptions to that rule, but very few.
WRB reply :
A limited number of Abu Garcia fresh water reels are made in Sweden, a few are assembled there, the production reels are manufactured in China.
It's getting difficult to find any reels made in the America! Both Avet and Accurate are off shore salt water reels made in California, not sure about Penn?
Tom
Jaheff reply :
Penn is under 100 (or could be 120 dollars msrp now), made in China. Pure fishing.
I Love my Avets, quality at a great price!
Release reels in Virginia is another reel talked about at a good price.
primetime reply :
This is a very easy topic, and I would not hesitate to purchase any lure or reel directly from china, and instead of going to the oem direct, do your research....Pure fishing owns almost every brand for fishing reels and lures, and they are part of a publicaly traded company named Jarden, which has to disclose all info to the public including...oem's who build product, profit statements, where shipments are sent and when they clear customs...all that info can be found online by digging a bit, and most of it is already done for you, as people have figured this out...Ever go to Gander mountain and look at the GSX baitcaster and then hold up the Quantum Kinetic.....Gander used to be made by Pinnacle, then pfueger and now it's blatent Quantum...If looking for lures, especially the Japanese lures made in china.....that we pay $20 for....Just find the yahoo site that does more business per year than ebay, and type in Savage 4 play fighter, Segmented Swimbait, S curver swimbait, lake Police, Water Bomber....that will take you to the OEM who makes all bass pro lures, storm, live target, Spro, Savage which is Okuma, and some of Sebiles lures as well.....You can also type in glitter filled Vibe.....and bam....only 10 min on retail site, if you want a batch of soft baits made or custom colors of a lucky or something, then find a trading company carrying the lure, and if they offer a "suit" for any brand...don't trust that one....Reel legit lures and reels at great discount only come from honest sellers, not the ones selling Papala or Duel, or Power pur.....They drop hints, colors will be the same as the "custom painted Japanese Lures" on ebay, as patents don't hold weight, but if you order a Japanese lure like the Ima flirt, they will not put Owner hooks, but instead send VMC to usa, and lure will be tagged under either china oem stamp, no stamp, but usually the stamp where lure is sold in Europe or Australia....I have gotten fakes, but I don't mind good quality fakes, I love Academy H20 Express Cranks, and just like soft baits in america which are mostly made in Georgia and Alabama.....only 3-4 oem's make 90% of Pradco, japanese Lures, and all the brands you want....as far as reels, you get what you pay for, so don't expect an Okuma Helios for $50....You can get them super cheap if willing to go to wholesale side and purchase 500 moq of one size of reel....SOme of those baitcasters that are 11 ball bearings for 39 or 29 on ebay are only 15-20 ea on retail china site, and if a real is a tica, or other reputable OEM's which make the reels for Abu,Pfueger, Okuma etc..The reels on that oem's site or china brand or ausi brand can be found from trading company and my guess is they are real deal,only missed quality control for scratches, small blemishes, or simple over stocks as they give 3 year warranties and honor them if you send them back...My buddy sells many at flea markets and it's hit or miss, but you can get awesome looking reels everyone will try when they pass by your booth and know fishing....
Hope that helps, be careful with braid, spectra and dyneema are owned by honeywell and two japanese companies and those patents are honored, however many braids in the usa do not have dyneema or spectra on package and guys love them and they are sold in all major catologs..I believe it is simply dacron, or just a variation of dyneema sk-65 or sk-71 as I know they can change formula just a little bit and it is just as strong as dyneema and with all the techonology we have given the asian manufactures, they can copy and often do it better on their own, plus do you really think Pinnacle has strong quality control??? or Okuma is watching over the Savage line of lures, or is it a coincedence every suspending jerkbait looks like the megabass ito 110? Lucky strike, academy, cabelas has the raad swimmer which is similar to storm, live target and sebile magic swimmer and I know for a fact all are made in same place. I have done well with swiimbaits, and frogs, topwaters etc. over the years, it is just tough to sell them, so I just order 10 and give a few to friends at cost and if I lose a $30 lure, I only paid maybe $5-$8....Otherwise I can't afford those lures, and since it is global market, you would be foolish to not take advantage of it and if you ever go to Icast, you can get reps to tell you all the secrets and subtle differences between lures, as their are differrences in internals....Never buy any lures on ebay in custom paint, especially without a box.....I still go to tackle warehouse for a few of the lures I cant live without or chance having even a lure with a slight imperfection....Sammy, Flatt Shads, Magic Swimmers, Little John, Stacey, and boil trigger, and gyron, but the gyrons from China are super nice and have same action, weight, better color.....you will find if you look, and willing to stay up late as I am tonight to instant message a company you build a relationship with, and trading companies will get you anything you want and be honest with you.....If 200 is moq for a lure you love and want to save big bucks, ask for an assortment of 200 pieces and get some friends to chip in and create a custom color fish have never seen.......same with custom pvc hand pours like Skinny Bear, Cover Craws, Spindle, Jackall and all overpriced japanese cheap softbaits that float and we love.
primetime reply :
someone mentioned Tica...you will see they make alot more than okuma if go to their site...they sell under usa names
primetime reply :
pure fishing is based on korea, nothing is made in usa anymore, not ardent, or Penn...They are made in china, and so are every single reel you use..Have you looked at boxes..oh, thats right..assembled in America, or Japan. Lumis is not pure fishing made in china as well.
Jaheff reply :
On 1/21/2014 at 4:31 PM, primetime said:pure fishing is based on korea, nothing is made in usa anymore, not ardent, or Penn...They are made in china, and so are every single reel you use..Have you looked at boxes..oh, thats right..assembled in America, or Japan. Lumis is not pure fishing made in china as well.
Sorry, My Avets are made in a factory in Chatsworth, California. Accurate reels are made in a factory in Corona, California. I guess the Bearings,springs and washers could be imported?
SirSnookalot reply :
On 1/21/2014 at 4:55 PM, Jaheff said:Sorry, My Avets are made in a factory in Chatsworth, California. Accurate reels are made in a factory in Corona, California. I guess the Bearings,springs and washers could be imported?
That's true. Not saying this is the case but sometimes raw parts like aluminum or copper stock are bought through a broker and not directly from the mill. A maker of a reel may want a particular aluminum alloy that is not available thru their local channels, they turn to brokers to shop the item for them. Again, this may not be the case but is possible.
webertime reply :
http://www.glvint.com/index.html
These guys build a TON of the rods in our rod lockers
http://www.doyofishing.co.kr/goods/theme.php?code=2
Who wants a rainbow colored Lews?
Primetime, I enjoyed your post, thanks.
guitarkid reply :
On 1/21/2014 at 10:33 PM, webertime said:http://www.glvint.com/index.html
These guys build a TON of the rods in our rod lockers
http://www.doyofishing.co.kr/goods/theme.php?code=2
Who wants a rainbow colored Lews?
Primetime, I enjoyed your post, thanks.
I want the liger, because this is why
-gk
webertime reply :
I was this close to posting that clip. I think the Liger is to a Zillion what a Miyata is to an MG.
primetime reply :
On 1/21/2014 at 1:23 PM, Jaheff said:Penn is under 100 (or could be 120 dollars msrp now), made in China. Pure fishing.
I Love my Avets, quality at a great price!
Release reels in Virginia is another reel talked about at a good price.
I was not aware of Avet fishing reels and they Look to be very High quality and indeed made in the USA. I think I may take a look at an Avet reel since I would like to add an ultralight spinning reel to my collection, and I could also find room for a large 4000 series spinning reel for various applications when a baitcaster is tough to use. I have no problem with the quality of Fishing products from reputable companies who are outsourcing production to OEM's overseas, as many just can't compete anymore with the costs of building products in the USA vs. cheap labor overseas regardless of the politics since the economy is now global in every industry and we are all using products and wearing clothes made in other countries and I was not trying to state that EVERY reel is now made in China, nor am I knocking any brands.
I still am happy with the quality of Abu Garcia Reels, Pfluegers, Okuma, Quantum, and Bass pro Fishing Reels that my aresenal mainly consists of as well as a few Shimano, Mitchell, and Daiwa reels which are all very good and I trust each one of these companies to have high quality control standards and I have noticed that the customer service from Okuma and Quantum to be fantastic when I have needed parts as they have gone above and beyond what I expected.
I know that a new company named 3:16 is doing both R & D in Tampa Florida where I live, and also manufacturing the products here which I think is great, however the price tag for many of their reels and rods cost more than I am willing to spend but I would love to have one of the baitcasting reels I have seen as they seem to be very High End.
I still find Abu garcia reels to be just as good if not better today than when they were manufactured in Sweden. They still do all the R & D in Sweden (At least that is what I have been lead to believe) and I find reels to be every bit as good as the Shimano Stradics and Curados that I am still fishing that were made in Japan in 2001 and I still have a few Bass Pro Extremes from that same time period and a Abu Royal Express Round Baitcaster which is going strong, and an original quantum 1 bearing Energy Spinning reel.
The only part of the entire overseas Manufacturing that bothers me is the fact that some companies are making inferior copies, and even worse, American sellers are buying these Knock offs and re-selling them in America as being "Genuine". I have sent emails to Ebay about these lures not being custom painted or genuine lucky crafts or other high end brands and have included emails from a few large sellers admitting to me they are knock offs, and I have even sent links to ebay showing the same paint and models for a few bucks, and then showing how these crooks are turning around and selling them as either custom painted Megabass ITO Jerkbaits and other labels without boxes, six new lures never used with one of each pattern in the same size????? I have seen 6 lures sell for over $100 in some cases and that is alot of money for a knock off Luck e Strike Rc Stick, Matzuo 100mm walking lure, and I could go on for days.....
I know that when I purchase a Live Target Gyron from China Direct that it is most likely going to have a different action since the internals were either defective and did not meet the high standards of these companies, or are made with finish that may not last as long, different components etc...But at times, they may be exactly the same, but if they do not have the stamp, then you can't call them Megabass without packaging and permission from the company...I just can't believe guys are not picking up on this...Who would buy 6 or 8 $20 Japanese Lures in 8 colors from a legit retailer in America, open each beautiful package, toss the boxes away, and then put the lures in a tackle box to sell a few months later??
Maybe it's just me, but when I purchased my first Megabass lure, Ima flirt, Spro, Sammy etc...I could not wait to get home and toss that baby in the pool or local pond to check out the action, and see how I can modify the lure to catch fish, and I even save the package just because they are not somthing I buy and see everyday. When any true angler buys lures from Bass Pro, or any store with a large selection, you would never buy all colors of one size (Unless you have alot of money) but most likely grab 2-3 colors of one or two of your favorite lures from Japan to supplement with the Quality Rapala, Smithwicks,Bandits, Excalibur, Strike King etc.....
Sorry for another long ramble, but I will say this about china made reels....Some of the Yokishawa reels are awfully smooth and for #15 the cf2000 feels and handles like a $100 spinning reel, and has landed bass over 8lbs, snook over 20lbs. and many other good size fish for a good year now, and it looks and feels brand new.......The guy who fixes reels for the tackle shop I work for has taken one apart and told me it was every bit as good as the Okuma Trio, Penn Battle, and Quantum accurist, and a browning model which I forget that he fixed at the same time....he actually thought it was a Dawia Aird or Procyon based on the insides.....Just telling it how it is, and I still do not fish it when it matter most however, and not sure why as many of my fishing buddies are loading up on these reels and are not having any issues at all, except for one made by some company swagg and they simply sent him a new reel that arrived in 2 weeks.....
I still believe that the reels may fakes, but if they are, they are using parts from top quality reels and the specs on this reel are fantastic and casts amazing. Makes me upset only because this reel must cost a few dollars to make, and that means so are my $150 reels.
SirSnookalot reply :
Quote
I was not aware of Avet fishing reels and they Look to be very High quality and indeed made in the USA. I think I may take a look at an Avet reel since I would like to add an ultralight spinning reel to my collection, and I could also find room for a large 4000 series spinning reel for various applications when a baitcaster is tough to use.
Avet does not make a spinning reel, there has been talk for the last few years, so far it's just b/c. I do believe just about every Avet is available both RH & LH. These reels are all lever drags (once used people fall in love with lever drags) without level winds. Not only are these reels used for trolling, drifting, and bait fishing but to my surprise how many people use them for surf combos casting and retrieving lures. I will cast lures with mine every now and then just to stay proficient with a bait caster.
Jaheff reply :
On 1/22/2014 at 5:13 PM, SirSnookalot said:Avet does not make a spinning reel, there has been talk for the last few years, so far it's just b/c. I do believe just about every Avet is available both RH & LH. These reels are all lever drags (once used people fall in love with lever drags) without level winds. Not only are these reels used for trolling, drifting, and bait fishing but to my surprise how many people use them for surf combos casting and retrieving lures. I will cast lures with mine every now and then just to stay proficient with a bait caster.
There are some guy's throwing the big freshwater swimbaits on the SXJ Mc, even tho it has no line guide. I've thrown up to 3oz iron on mine in salt.
Bruce424 reply :
On 1/20/2014 at 5:00 AM, rippin-lips said:This is exactly what makes me wanna try one of those $30 china made baitcasters you see all over eBay. I'm willing to bet it's darn near the same inside and might perform just as well. If it doesn't then I'm not out anything really.
totally just bought one. its on its way through the mail. ill let you guys know when I get it, how good or bad it is. it got 10 bb and magnetic break. 6.3:1 gear ratio
Maxximus Redneckus reply :
I will nudge in on this...i own 50+ abus made in sweden i have owned and used a few bcx abus and u cannot give me one now what a joke .btw when you have a chinese made real that last over 60 yrs then you can walk the walk not just talk the talk .lol
bootytrain reply :
On 1/23/2014 at 6:50 AM, Maxximus Redneckus said:I will nudge in on this...i own 50+ abus made in sweden i have owned and used a few bcx abus and u cannot give me one now what a joke .btw when you have a chinese made real that last over 60 yrs then you can walk the walk not just talk the talk .lol
Swedish made is a tad overhyped in my experience. I just had to send back a Swedish made Morrum ZX(the gold and black one) because of pretty crappy build quality, the thumbar was loose as hell and the clutch wouldn't engage fully about 20 percent of the time until I turned the handle several times. The gears felt grindy as hell but someone who has a ZX said that might be normal? Not what I was expecting from legendary Swedish engineering. Stunning reel otherwise and is turning me on to round baitcasters 
Conquest 50DC is next!
Maxximus Redneckus reply :
Ill buy anything but made in china or tiawan...i love japanese reels have a few abu spinning reels made in japan 30 yrs old still rolling
retiredbosn reply :
If it only takes an order of 500 reels to have some produced, there should be some thought given to a special run of a Bass Resource reel. Take a portion of the profits and donate to Tackle the Storm.
Hooligan reply :
On 1/21/2014 at 4:31 PM, primetime said:pure fishing is based on korea, nothing is made in usa anymore, not ardent, or Penn...They are made in china, and so are every single reel you use..Have you looked at boxes..oh, thats right..assembled in America, or Japan. Lumis is not pure fishing made in china as well.
Lot of truth in your post, but also some that's not 100%. I'm not going to get into splitting hairs, as it isn't really that important.
One thing I will say, is that Ardent reels- their upper end reels- are US made, with the only components that are not being the bearings. Everything else, including the bar stock is from US destinations.
There's some conjecture in regards to the location and manufacture of a lot of baits, and I can tell you FIRSTHAND that not all of them are created in the same facilities. A HUGE number of them are, but there are also those higher quality baits that are start to finish made in a single country of origin, two of the larger/higher quality names are such.
But anyhow... Good info there.
SirSnookalot reply :
Unless someone is affiliated with a manufacturing co in a capacity such as a purchasing agent or higher up in the chain, how would one know where raw materials are made. For an item to be designated " made in the USA", only a percentage of the materials have to come from the States, don't know the exact number but it's no where near 100%. 60-61 aluminium is a very common alloy, it's used for many different things, airplanes, marine, reels, windows, structural extrusions, etc. Most aluminum companies through out the world manufacture it, it's highly competitive.
I've been on the shop floor of hundreds of plants, bought millions of pounds of various metals, have seen the tags on new stock, it don't all come for the Good Ole USA. I have not been on the floor of any American reel company and have never seen the tags on their new stock, couldn't say where the materials originate from. Ya gotta be there to really know. The scrap that is generated from machining of products, don't think for a second only US companies buy it, so much of goes overseas, China, Turkey, Brazil, India and Russia.
0119 reply :
On 1/23/2014 at 7:53 AM, bootytrain said:Swedish made is a tad overhyped in my experience. I just had to send back a Swedish made Morrum ZX(the gold and black one) because of pretty crappy build quality, the thumbar was loose as hell and the clutch wouldn't engage fully about 20 percent of the time until I turned the handle several times. The gears felt grindy as hell but someone who has a ZX said that might be normal? Not what I was expecting from legendary Swedish engineering. Stunning reel otherwise and is turning me on to round baitcasters
Conquest 50DC is next!
That Morrum has been made in Korea for the last 2 series so I wouldnt expect too much from it even if it is assembled in Svangsta now. Its still Pure Fishing engineered which isnt saying much and its NOTHING when compared to pre 80's true Abu's. Pure Fishing engineered strictly means, options picked out of a catalog from a OEM factory.
primetime reply :
On 1/23/2014 at 1:57 PM, Hooligan said:Lot of truth in your post, but also some that's not 100%. I'm not going to get into splitting hairs, as it isn't really that important.
One thing I will say, is that Ardent reels- their upper end reels- are US made, with the only components that are not being the bearings. Everything else, including the bar stock is from US destinations.
There's some conjecture in regards to the location and manufacture of a lot of baits, and I can tell you FIRSTHAND that not all of them are created in the same facilities. A HUGE number of them are, but there are also those higher quality baits that are start to finish made in a single country of origin, two of the larger/higher quality names are such.
But anyhow... Good info there.
I am sure I am not 100% accurate on every statement abou every company, and I am sure their are a few high end reels that are produced in the USA, as Many companies Like Ardent Still have an R & D facillity in the USA as do most companies who were once manufactured here.
I don't claim to understand it all, because this new Globilization is complicated, and if something is made in Korea, or China or Malasyia, I just group it into one because they are not made in the States and I always feel bad for the people who have lost their jobs due to offshore manufacturing. I am sure some of the High End Reels of many companies (Especially if it is patented technology) would still be made in the USA and those reels usually are very Expensive and out of reach for the majoriity of people.
I always thought Ardent was still made in America until a few weeks ago actually. I also realize Pure Fishing does not own every company, but they own alot more than I ever realized.
I appreciate your comment and this is a topic that I am very intertested in as you can tell from the length of my posts. I still want to believe that my Quantum Reels, Okuma, Shimano, Abus and Daiwas etc. are better than the less expensive Reels and tackle overseas.....
Bottom line, when it counts on the water, I am not using any reel that is not stamped with a brand I trust, or any lure that is not from a Tackle warehouse, Bass Pro, or reputable retailer as I know that very subtle differences from lure to lure make a huge difference, and that is true for lures made from the same company from different batches.
I have been working on starting my own soft bait line, braid, and even some topwater lures that I have purchased from overseas that I really like, and they work great in local waters, kind of a custom PVC pour like a Roboworm or Megabass texture swimbait.....
primetime reply :
On 1/23/2014 at 6:50 AM, Maxximus Redneckus said:I will nudge in on this...i own 50+ abus made in sweden i have owned and used a few bcx abus and u cannot give me one now what a joke .btw when you have a chinese made real that last over 60 yrs then you can walk the walk not just talk the talk .lol
Well said....Just because these Chinese reels are doing well for a season, does not mean they will be rolling smooth in 20 years like my first Curado, Abu Royal Express, or STradic and a one bearing Quantum Energy....But I have heard my father tell me that Japanese Imports used to be considered Junk, and now look? stuff has been made overseas in China for years, and many Janpanese companies import them from China as well which only makes sense....But I think you are spot on with your statement and tough to debate your point.
fishingman88 reply :
On 1/21/2014 at 1:23 PM, Jaheff said:Penn is under 100 (or could be 120 dollars msrp now), made in China. Pure fishing.
I Love my Avets, quality at a great price!
Release reels in Virginia is another reel talked about at a good price.
+1 on the Release Reels. They are made in Virginia and definitely are up there in quality. They are looking to expanding their product line too.
Hooligan reply :
Primetime- Don't be confused, though. Evercast, though owned by Ardent, is not the same as Ardent. All Ardent reels are US made. Evercast are not.
Snook- Been there, and seen it first hand. They use stock for their reels from the US.
0119 reply :
I believe there was a recent thread announcing Ardent no longer produced reels in the USA. There site is clearing out what remains of the Edge or whatever previous lines they had, for 30% off. All other models on their site are specified off shore built. I guess those poor Mo. factory employees he promised a future to are out of luck.
Hooligan reply :
Yeah, that's true. I had forgotten that they're moving to Chinese production. Supposed to be by the end of the year.
frogflogger reply :
I am amazed at the browning reels I bought at bps sale in sofla 10yrs ago (mi1000's, 10bb) made in Korea I bought them for clients use and they just keep on working - two of them are 5.2:1 so I've used them for grinding crankbaits ad nauseum - they've caught 1000's of fish - I clean and oil every so often and take 'em fishing - I own U.S. built Ardents, I'm very happy with, also calais, curado and high end daiwa , all very good reels but (years later) the Brownings are as smooth and reliable as any of them. I wonder if they are some kind of one off freak of good production - anyone else have this experience with them?
bigbill reply :
On 1/20/2014 at 5:00 AM, rippin-lips said:This is exactly what makes me wanna try one of those $30 china made baitcasters you see all over eBay. I'm willing to bet it's darn near the same inside and might perform just as well. If it doesn't then I'm not out anything really.
I can give you the exact bait caster model number to try. I have two or three of them that function really well. They cost $30 now. Try one. They must have been a vendorr for some well known reel manufacturer then split off on manufacturing a clone. Well putting there name on someone else's design. This reel seems to be too well made to be there own design. I'll get back here with a model number. I bought them just for ha ha' s. You be the judge and buy one and post what you think. It's no BMW but it works.
EBay reel model DM120RA 11ball bearings. It's not a top shelf quality reel like the ones mentioned here. It's a $30 reel and something to try that's new from China. There are ball bearings on both sides of the spool.
Keep in mind I've seen entry level prices before to get there foot in the door on the market. Once there product picks up in sales the cost will soar I've seen it with other imported stuff.
Please don't flame me or attack me it's nice to see first hand on another countries product. Remember we also said this about the Japanese cars and fishing equipment at first too.
All our rods, well most of them, all our lures say made in China? Grant you some of there hard body swimbaits are questiunable but some Look good too. Time on the water drowning them will tell.
hoosierbass07 reply :
I was in Walmart yesterday looking to buy a cheap spinning reel to play around with. I looked at some Abu Garcia reels but they were in the $40 to $80 range. Right next to them were the cheapest reels I saw made by Mitchell. The thing is - the packaging on both the Mitchell and Abu Garcia's looked the same. I ended up not buying any and instead bought a $25 Shimano spinning reel. But now I'm thinking - I don't have any Abu Garcia reels and not sure I want any now since I might pay $50 for one but some other company (Mitchell) might be offering the same thing for $20.00
All of my Shimano spinning reels are made in Malaysia and in fact - when I bought that cheap Shimano reel I looked and saw the "Made in Malaysia" tag so I felt more comfortable buying it. It might be cheap but it's good quality cheap!
BassWhole! reply :
On 3/14/2014 at 1:17 AM, frogflogger said:I am amazed at the browning reels I bought at bps sale in sofla 10yrs ago (mi1000's, 10bb) made in Korea I bought them for clients use and they just keep on working - two of them are 5.2:1 so I've used them for grinding crankbaits ad nauseum - they've caught 1000's of fish - I clean and oil every so often and take 'em fishing - I own U.S. built Ardents, I'm very happy with, also calais, curado and high end daiwa , all very good reels but (years later) the Brownings are as smooth and reliable as any of them. I wonder if they are some kind of one off freak of good production - anyone else have this experience with them?
Silstar made Pinnacle clone. The Midas, Trion, BPS JM, Rick Clunn, Dick's Carrera Ti, Academy's PXS, Mettle, Cabela's Prodigy (before it went Daiwa), etc, etc.
I fish the Matrix II, and won't change it for anything. As a plus, I can use the plastic side plate from some of the OEMs (The Matrix is all metal) in the winter and early spring, palming an all metal reel in 30 degrees is no fun, and I don't like fishing with gloves.
roadwarrior reply :
On 3/14/2014 at 1:48 AM, bigbill said:On 1/20/2014 at 5:00 AM, rippin-lips said:This is exactly what makes me wanna try one of those $30 china made baitcasters you see all over eBay. I'm willing to bet it's darn near the same inside and might perform just as well. If it doesn't then I'm not out anything really.
I can give you the exact bait caster model number to try. I have two or three of them that function really well. They cost $30 now. Try one. They must have been a vendorr for some well known reel manufacturer then split off on manufacturing a clone. Well putting there name on someone else's design. This reel seems to be too well made to be there own design. I'll get back here with a model number. I bought them just for ha ha' s. You be the judge and buy one and post what you think. It's no BMW but it works.
EBay reel model DM120RA 11ball bearings. It's not a top shelf quality reel like the ones mentioned here. It's a $30 reel and something to try that's new from China. There are ball bearings on both sides of the spool.
Keep in mind I've seen entry level prices before to get there foot in the door on the market. Once there product picks up in sales the cost will soar I've seen it with other imported stuff.
Please don't flame me or attack me it's nice to see first hand on another countries product. Remember we also said this about the Japanese cars and fishing equipment at first too.
All our rods, well most of them, all our lures say made in China? Grant you some of there hard body swimbaits are questiunable but some Look good too. Time on the water drowning them will tell.
Is this the review we have been anxiously awaiting? I love to hear a little more detail.
TorqueConverter reply :
On 1/20/2014 at 7:30 AM, Hooligan said:Shimano- Built in proprietary factories and production lines wholly owned by Shimano one facility in Malaysia and one in Japan
Pinnacle- Owned by Silstar, built by Dawon, Doyo, Kaito, or one of a couple other Chinese Manufacturers
Abu Garcia- Pure Fishing can be built by Dawon, Doyo, or Kaito on the upper end reels. Lower and mid range reels are generally of "farmed" Chinese origin; IE: They can be built at any one of the Chinese factories in lots, there is no guarantee which factory they are coming from, generally.
Lews- Generally built by Doyo and Dawon, with lower end reels being made at either Korean, Sri Lankan, or Chinese facilities.
Pflueger Pure Fishing can be built by Dawon, Doyo, or Kaito on the upper end reels. Lower and mid range reels are generally of "farmed" Chinese origin; IE: They can be built at any one of the Chinese factories in lots, there is no guarantee which factory they are coming from, generally.
BPS- BPS Reels are built much the same as Pure Fishing, and Lews- The caveat being that they are the owners of the tooling. In other cases, the bid goes to the mfr to include tooling.
Cabela's- Can be made in any number of facilities, from Daiwa's own to Dawon and Doyo. As well, they can be of Chinese origin.
Quantum- Mostly made in Chinese facility that shares manufacture of Zebco reels as well. Some are made in a Korean facility, it is unclear of whose facility it actually is. Some say that it is wholly owned by quantum, while Zebco/Quantum deny that is the case.
Diawa Have facilities for OEM mfr in both Japan and Korea. A small Malay facility as well.
Penn- See Pure Fishing- Some Penn Reels are still made in the USA, some are made in China and Korea
Zebco- see Quantum
Rods- generally are made in any number of facilities in China or Korea. With few exceptions on the higher end rods.
How do you know the parts aren't the same? 99.8% of the Chinese reels will be similar, however, the parts will be stamped rather than machined, lower quality metals are used, and lower quality components. Quantum is notorious for this, as is Pure Fishing.
Great insight. This is something I have been very interested in for a while. Were do the reel designs originate? Do any of the brands do R&D or is that all outsourced or even licensed from an unknown entity?
I've seen two different reels, from two different brands, using the same reel design, but with different materials and braking systems at two different price points. It almost reminds me of building a PC were there are lots of brands out there, but it really comes down to who's parts are in your rig. I'd love to see an Ibuypower or Cyberpower sort of online builder for reels and rods.
On 1/22/2014 at 1:01 PM, primetime said:The only part of the entire overseas Manufacturing that bothers me is the fact that some companies are making inferior copies, and even worse, American sellers are buying these Knock offs and re-selling them in America as being "Genuine". I have sent emails to Ebay about these lures not being custom painted or genuine lucky crafts or other high end brands and have included emails from a few large sellers admitting to me they are knock offs, and I have even sent links to ebay showing the same paint and models for a few bucks, and then showing how these crooks are turning around and selling them as either custom painted Megabass ITO Jerkbaits and other labels without boxes, six new lures never used with one of each pattern in the same size????? I have seen 6 lures sell for over $100 in some cases and that is alot of money for a knock off Luck e Strike Rc Stick, Matzuo 100mm walking lure, and I could go on for days.....
I know that when I purchase a Live Target Gyron from China Direct that it is most likely going to have a different action since the internals were either defective and did not meet the high standards of these companies, or are made with finish that may not last as long, different components etc...But at times, they may be exactly the same, but if they do not have the stamp, then you can't call them Megabass without packaging and permission from the company...I just can't believe guys are not picking up on this...Who would buy 6 or 8 $20 Japanese Lures in 8 colors from a legit retailer in America, open each beautiful package, toss the boxes away, and then put the lures in a tackle box to sell a few months later??
Maybe it's just me, but when I purchased my first Megabass lure, Ima flirt, Spro, Sammy etc...I could not wait to get home and toss that baby in the pool or local pond to check out the action, and see how I can modify the lure to catch fish, and I even save the package just because they are not somthing I buy and see everyday. When any true angler buys lures from Bass Pro, or any store with a large selection, you would never buy all colors of one size (Unless you have alot of money) but most likely grab 2-3 colors of one or two of your favorite lures from Japan to supplement with the Quality Rapala, Smithwicks,Bandits, Excalibur, Strike King etc.....
About those Ebay lures. Are you saying that you are seeing custom painted knock offs (KO) selling for up to $16 a piece? KOs are sold naked and without hooks just for that reason. As long as they are not trying to pass them off as a real name brand product such as a Rapala DT, Megabass Vision 110, Griffon ect then they should be alright.
Even cheap baits can have fantastic actions. I would go as far as to say that there is nothing inherently expensive about a bait that moves well in the water and that a good action can be had at any price point. The things that typically drive up the price of a bait are things that matter to anglers but not to the fish. Sonic welded seams, weight transfer systems, great hooks, beautiful hand painted finishes, scratch resistant clear coats ect. While you are not necessarily paying for a better action in a bait by spending more money, there are actions that are exclusive and that exclusivity makes the bait more expensive. It remains this way until a more attractively priced bait can knock off the bait's action.
Balsa baits seem hard to knock off. It probably has something to do with them not being two halves of plastic shat out at X number per hour by an injection molding machine. It's easy to knock off designs but craftsmanship remains more elusive. I'm not sure where craftsmanship is even present in modern baits. A machine operator running an injection molder is not a craftsman.
0119 reply :
On 3/15/2014 at 12:27 PM, TorqueConverter said:
I'm not sure where craftsmanship is even present in modern baits. A machine operator running an injection molder is not a craftsman.
Very true, that goes for the rods and reels too. Where are Rapala's made, at least the newer plastic ones? I "think" the classic balsa models are still made in Ireland. I saw on t.v. where one of the offspring of Rapala has gone back to making them hand made individually in Sweden. Dont know what name or company he goes by but they sell for 100 Euro's each.
WRB reply :
The risk factor for ANYTHING made in China is buying counterfeit products. There isn't any laws to protect the buyer in China...buyer beware!
Metals may or may not meet specifications so some manufacturers supply the metals to help solve that issue.
Quality control is another problem, manufactures need to be on site to monitor quality control.
There are some excellent products made in China and under the same label counterfeit products. The only way to avoid problems is to avoid made in China products.
Tom
TorqueConverter reply :
On 3/16/2014 at 1:07 AM, 119 said:Very true, that goes for the rods and reels too. Where are Rapala's made, at least the newer plastic ones? I "think" the classic balsa models are still made in Ireland. I saw on t.v. where one of the offspring of Rapala has gone back to making them hand made individually in Sweden. Dont know what name or company he goes by but they sell for 100 Euro's each.
I have no idea. I'd love to visit a DT production line. I want to know how they shape those bodies and form the crank from balsa so cheaply. There has got to be some real interesting tooling that looks nothing like the injection molding machines of most hard bait production.
Jeff H reply :
On 3/16/2014 at 1:07 AM, 119 said:Very true, that goes for the rods and reels too. Where are Rapala's made, at least the newer plastic ones? I "think" the classic balsa models are still made in Ireland. I saw on t.v. where one of the offspring of Rapala has gone back to making them hand made individually in Sweden. Dont know what name or company he goes by but they sell for 100 Euro's each.
That's Jarmo Rapala you're talking about. Grandson to Lauri, the originator of Rapala. Last I knew he was selling those baits from Finland and now is co-owner of Bagley....I think.
Rahlow reply :
The real question is this, why pay the price for a Lews Rod or any other “expensive rod”, when it’s made in China just like the store brand rods?
blckshirt98 reply :
On 5/29/2018 at 9:34 AM, Rahlow said:The real question is this, why pay the price for a Lews Rod or any other “expensive rod”, when it’s made in China just like the store brand rods?
Blanks can be made "to spec" and it's up to the company to make sure they're manufactured to spec. I'll put the Phenix blanks/rods up against any that are American made. The reputable companies I have no hesitation about buying, it's the smaller companies that won't disclose information where I'd have my doubts.
Rahlow reply :
I’m still not gonna pay the kind of money they want for a rod made in China, Shakespeare and store brands have served me well. It’s just a matter of preference, to each his own.
Choporoz reply :
Interesting resurrection. Great info, but dated, by now, I'm certain.
I'm glad, however, because of the mentions of 'Release Reels'. Looks like they are called Seigler Fishing Reels now; and still made here in VA. I don't see typical bass low-profile reels in their line up, mostly saltwater. However, everything I've seen online makes me want to buy one of their reels, just the same. I sure hope they're successful.
Choporoz reply :
https://www.localscoopmagazine.com/discover/the-reel-deal-seigler-reels/
kickerfish1 reply :
Why do people insist on digging up threads from 4 years ago?
Spankey reply :
I know a pretty old thread but thought it might fall in line with the tariff thread that is started.
I would like to think a lot of my fishing items are US made but many things I’m sure are China. I’m going to look at some of the packaging while I’m out this weekend. I believe I’m going to find out much much much is China. Especially the small overlooked items.
Just try not to let these economic and political front issues over run you. But I do realize it is part of life. And a $ is a $. Job are jobs. Hopefully it all works out.
MAN reply :
On 5/30/2018 at 2:22 AM, Choporoz said:https://www.localscoopmagazine.com/discover/the-reel-deal-seigler-reels/
Thanks! I have been eyeing these reels myself for catfish, gar and some light offshore. I need to see if they have an option that doesn't have such a large power handle.
Buckeye Ron reply :
On 5/30/2018 at 6:51 AM, kickerfish1 said:Why do people insist on digging up threads from 4 years ago?
Because ‘some people’ can’t resist responding to them?
Maxximus Redneckus reply :
Japanese,swedish,korean,german,english,Malaysia, USA are my preferred reels and the ones that never give me any probs ...chinese vietnam IMO and experience are junk
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