What could I do to convince you ??? 2024

Fish Chris reply :

Ya' know, I was just posting a response over on that other thread about cameras and scales (will people ever learn) .... which has shifted to the completely different topic of braided line.

And I started to ponder something here. Their is the larger group of mono guys, who won't ever switch to braid. Then their is the smaller, but sizable group, who use braid. And finally, their is a very small group of guys, who probably haven't had enough fishing experience, to have completely made up there minds yet.

But anyway, as I have said many times before, I have used micro-braided line (very successfully) for Bluegills on my UL gear, all the way up to 80 lb braid, on light saltwater tackle, for 300 lb Sturgeon. I have used it (very successfuly) in murky water, and also, much of the time, in gin clear water, for very spooky fish. I have used it (very successfully) for fishing with live bait, and a lot more so nowadays, with artificial lures.... of all types I should add, from little crankbaits, with tiny treble hooks, to big 10", 8 oz swimbaits ! I have used braid in wide open, cover free water, as well as between the limbs of submerged forests in LA and AR. {notice I didn't say "very successfully with that one :-) .....because I never caught anything worth a #%$ when I was down there... But then again, I never broke any off either}.

So I'm just curious; Why do some of you believe that braid might have worked so well for me, but it would not do the same for you ???

Anybody ?

Peace,

Fish

Lightninrod reply :

Chris: I've used several(Fireline, Power Pro, Lynch, etc.) braids over the years. I lost an expensive topwater bait when I whipped it way out from a dock and the Fireline snapped like a toothpick . But, my main dislike with braid is its tendency to wrap around my rod's upper area when there's slack thrown into it. That could break an expensive rod if a heavy fish were to strike before I could get the limp braid unwrapped................................

I use a 100% fluro 95% of the time and the other 5% is in using 25# test Maxima for my heavier swimbaits.

Dan

Vyron reply :

100% braid line user here. Well said

jayhawkfishin reply :

To convince me you need to rationalize using 40 lb. braid when a big fish in my area is 5 lb. I see no need to use huge pound test when going after a fish that is a fraction of the pound test. If i break a fish off on 8 -12 pound mono its my fault.

sodaksker reply :

Chris,

I do enjoy the strength qualities of braid cuz man I love to put the "Bill Dance" hookset on them. But I agree with Dan about the it getting wrapped around the end of my pole. Also on weightless soft plastics the bait does not sink as well.

Rob

Fish Chris reply :

Hello Lightningrod. While I can't say that I "never" have a tip wrap, while using braid, I can say that I have "never" broke a rod, nor damaged any other gear, because of it. I agree that tip wraps are an occasional pain in the arse..... but when weighed against the "constant pain" that is monofilament, it is a really easy trade for me :-)

Couple things Jayhawk. First off, you can get TUF-Line as light as 10 lb test (2 lb diameter) and if I were using baits or lures which allowed using micro-light gear, and fishing in basically coverless waters, this is exactly what I would use for your 5 lb'ers. More fun. More productive.

However, there are SOOO many more benefits to braid, than simply brute strength. Sensitivity. Durability. No memory. It wouldn't matter how small, or weak my fish were, braid is just so much more of a pleasure to use.

Peace,

Fish

Fish Chris reply :

Hello Sodaksker. As I had agreed, those tips wraps are an occasional pain..... although because braid does not become all coily, and spring loaded, like mono does, when it gets just a few twists in it, this seems to be a really easy tradeoff for me.

BTW, braid is certainly strong.... but be carefull on those BD hooksets. Because of the non-stretch factor, a really hard hookset, most of the time, is simply not needed with braid, to get the same amount of hook setting pressure at the hook point. If you can't control your hook sets.... or if you simply enjoy swinging like a mad man, be sure to run a much lighter drag setting, and maybe use a slightly softer, slower action rod. Physics dictate, that something has to give. If it doesn't bend enough, or slip enough, something is going to break !

Peace,

Fish

.ghoti. reply :

I don't used braid because what Lightningrod suggested happened to me. I was working a Super Spook along a weedline. Twitch, twitch, twitch, pause. On one of the twitches the line wrapped around the second or third guide from the top, a bass hit the Spook, I set the hook and the rod snapped about 12" down from the tip. Ruined the whole day.

So, what can you do to convince me? Nothing. I'm already convinced.

Maybe I can convince you. Here's what I see wrong with the braid.

1. It will slip on the spool. Solution; put some mono on first. Result; time wasted.

2. It will wrap around anything and everything. Solution; pay no attention to what your lure's doing. Spend your time paying attention to what your line is doing, and spend some more time getting it unwrapped. Result; missed bites

3. Visibilty. All fish will be line shy at some times. Solution; tie on a leader. Result; another knot in your rig. Something else to go wrong. Every knot is like another fitting in a piping system. Another place for a leak to happen. Also, I've seen a guide insert popped out when a guy with a 3/4oz jig on was casting with the knot about halfway down the rod towards the reel.

4. Knots. We all know about that.

5. It digs into itself on the spool when under tension. Solution; use larger diameter line. Result; you now have line on your reel which exceeds the capacity of your rod. Medium-heavy power rods seem to be what most people use for bass fishing. Most are rated, at the top end, for 17-25lb test line. So what happens when you use 65lb test line on a rod rated for a maximum of 25 pounds? Duh! Besides, I can't remember the last time I saw anybody catch a 65 pound bass.

6. It costs way too much. Solution; use something else.

7. Don't even think about what this stuff will do to a spinning reel. Been there, done that, said all the words my mother used to wash out my mouth with soap for using.

8. Very low shock strength. It will break sometimes on the hookset or on a hard cast. I launched a Castaic swimbait into never-never land once. Solution; there isn't one.

Is that enough? It is for me.

I use Transition for all my plastics and jigging now. When it first came out, it was junk. Only good for making slinkies. I'm color-blind, and sometimes have a hard time seeing the line against the water. I can see the Transition very well. Which is why I bought it in the first place. The original version was just too user unfriendly. The poor handling charateristics totally outweighed the benefit of increased visibilty above water. It is much better now. The new version is still easy for me to see above water, still changes back to less visible below water, and now handles like mono.

I still use Trilene XL for cranks, spinnerbaits and topwaters. I started experimenting this year with flouro and copolymers for these applications. Here are the conclusions I've drawn so far. I'm not gonna mention any brand names while the jury is still out.

I don't like flouro for topwaters. Sometimes, letting the bait sit, and just slightly twitch it, is what's required. This is harder to do when the line sinks as fast as flouro.

I'm leaning toward using flouro for spinnerbaits. I like the extra sensitivity.

I'm probably gonna continue using XL for cranks, although I'm still experimenting. A little extra stretch is a good thing when using baits with treble hooks. But, a little added depth from the flouro can also be a good thing.

Jerkbaits, despite the treble hooks, are much better served with flouro. The extra sensitivity, lower visibility and negative bouancy are all just what the doctor ordered for suspending baits. I'm using Vanish for jerks, at this time. I will be experimenting with other brands.

Not attacking anybody here, just my fifth of a dimes worth.

Good luck,

Lightninrod reply :

" but when weighed against the "constant pain" that is monofilament, it is a really easy trade for me

I use fluro 95% of the time as I said in my post..............

dodgeguy reply :

i have NEVER had sufix braid snap at any time.sufix also does not have the digging in issues other braids have.i do not believe largemouth bass are line shy.i have no problem catching them without a leader.and i guarantee that non braid users are missing light bites that braid users are feeling and setting hooks on.i agree with chris that braid has way less issues than mono or flouro ever will.

Hawgin reply :

Chris-

I love braided line for all the things that you mentioned, and I use it on two of my set ups. I use braid for all of my flipping/pitching appliactions, and I use it for all of my top waters because of it's tendency to float. However, I don't use it for all applications. I think it has it's place in everyone's arsenal for fishing heavy cover, and it's great in stained to muddy water, however I think other types of line have their place as well. There are definitely situations in which I like mono, especially when using moving baits (i.e. cranks, spinnerbaits). Above all else, I am starting to really develop an affinitiy for Florocarbon, and co-polymer lines. I like their sensitivity. They have a better breaking strength than mono, and I like the "visibility" advantage it gives you in clearer water. I think there is a time and a place for all types of line, and I don't think one line is the cure all for all situations, just like I don't think that there is one bait, one rod, on technique for fishing all situations.

fishbear reply :

Quote

I use a 100% fluro 95% of the time and the other 5% is in using 25# test Maxima for my heavier swimbaits.

Dan

Wow, I thought Maxima was out of business. I love that line for heavy work..... I have not seen it anywhere here in Georgia since I moved here. I grew up using Maxima for everything from trout to sturgeon... salt water or fresh water..

I learned to cast my first baitcaster with 20lb. Maxima. with a 3/4 oz. weight attached... casting at a 1 gal. bucket in the back yard.

sorry, I am off topic, it just brought back a lot of good memories..

I do not use braid for the reasons stated before me, I guess I am a mono line person and always will be, it is not like I am money fishing anyway... I fish for fun, and part of the fun is playing the fish, not just hogging one in as soon as you get the hook set... I imagine that braid has its place in the fishing world, but not for this fisherman... to expensive, and to much hassle.... just mho.

roadwarrior reply :

I used braid exclusively fishing for striper on the Tennessee River. These are the reason's I don't anymore:

1. When floating a river in tight and turbulent water (especially when fishing with two or more guys at the same time), there are many situations where breaking the line is necessary. Braid is too hard to break, smaller diameters dig into the spool and the line can cut or badly burn the fisherman.

2. Although braid is very strong, it is not very tough or abrasion resistant. The river I fish contains the "Rocks from Hell". Braid will cut and fray.

3. We fish an area immediately below the Pickwick Dam. Moving into "the boils" is a fast, quick run the last two hundred yards or so. The wrapping issue is huge in the wind that is created. That is (was) a problem much of the time.

So, I'm not opposed to braid and I see why it would be the line of choice for many fisherman in most situations. I'm just illustrating a situation where it is not.

RoLo reply :

Quote
1. When floating a river in tight and turbulent water (especially when fishing with two or more guys at the same time), there are many situations where breaking the line is necessary. Braid is too hard to break, smaller diameters dig into the spool and the line can cut or badly burn the fisherman.

I have to agree with RW, braid can be nasty stuff to break-off, when breaking off is what you want to do.

On irreconcilable snags, I've wrapped powerpro braid 5 or 6 times around my hand, then pulled with all my might,

only to watch the line slice into the web of my hand. The alternative of course, is a line that breaks when you DON'T want it to.

As for line-burrowing, that's not an issue for me. On the snag described above, the braid of course will burrow somewhat

into the spooled line. Since I already know that, I'll simply strip off a few yards and retrieve the line before returning to fishing.

If I forget to do that, no big deal, the burrowed line will shorten my first cast, but after that it's business as usual.

I should tell you that I'm now using 30-lb braid on one of my spinning outfits and it casts 1/16 oz lures very well.

Quote
2. Although braid is very strong, it is not very tough or abrasion resistant. The river I fish contains the "Rocks from Hell". Braid will cut and fray.

I agree, but to a fault.

All line materials are vulnerable to crippling line-abrasion, furthermore, the difference in line-abrasion between

braided line & copolymer line is very small, and depends on the formula of both lines in the comparison.

I admit it, I'm sold on braid :-*

Roger

dodgeguy reply :

the solution to that is a small wood dowel to wrap the braid around.no cut hands and %99 of the time you get your lure back but it may need new hooks.if you are using sufix braid of equivalent diameter of a mono you would normally use then abrasion resistance is not an issue.

kbkindle reply :

kbkindle nothing ia'm a 100% powerpro user i have used about every mono floro and braid made and you cant beat power pro. i have caught more fish with power pro because of its sensitivity than any other line cranks go just as deep and etc the only problem i have is it hard to see line move on a jig , worm, tube ,etc so i just ordered the hi vise color rather than green when i would go up northern wisconsin and catch some smallmouth on beds with mono i could not tell all the times they had the bait but would see there gills flare now i can feel the line so that proves to me how sensitive it is as far as it raping around rod tip it does'n happen enough to bother with besides you can hardley get a back lash with braid when you would throw it into the wind. and if your getting break offs you are not tying a good polomer knot kb

dodgeguy reply :

kb,good point about backlashes.you cannot beat braid for lack of backlashes.it's also easier to get them out of if you know how.

cart7t reply :

I tried braid when it first came out. I've used numerous brands as well as experimenting with the fusions. All in all it never turned into the replacement for monofilament because of all the negatives and the cost.

1. It digs in on the spool

2. Not very abrasion resistant

3. When wet, wraps on the rod.

4. Worthless on spinning setups

5. Impossible to break off when hung deep on the bottom. You wind up cutting a lot of line off.

6. Cost

That's enough for me. I use it occasionally on Flippin applications but it has too many negatives.

castaway reply :

I have been using 30 lb Tuf line braid while jigging the weedbeds with good results, that is until I broke 4" off the rod tip where the line wrapped around the rod tip on a pitch. I got bit and instantly set the hook, not looking to notice the line wrapped the rodtip. :'( I hear people using 50+ lb test braid.When are the rod manufacturers going to say warranty is void upon the use of braided lines ?What extra wear and tear are you putting on the anti reverse bearings, not to mention the sppol shaft assembly when using braid ? I love the way braid cuts through the heavy weeds, but I am not going to use braid anymore.I like the carbon pro line Lightnin' recommended to me, except the zebra mussels raise hell with it just about as bad as it did with braided line. I fish the carbon pro shallow and mono for the rocky, deeper areas.I think there was no reason to use braid, except for the fact that it was popular and the bait monkey made me buy it. ;D I really do beleive that mono works just as well as braid for most fishing applications.I also beleive its slides through the thick matted milfoil I jig fish better than braided line did, you just can't cut through the weeds like braid can. Would I recommend you to switch to fluorocarbon, or mono ? No, fish what ever you feel works best for you. Ivan

Lightninrod reply :

fishbear: I get my German-made Maxima here.

As far as the expence of braid(and fluro) goes, all you have to do is fill the first half of the spool with a cheap mono and the outer half with the more expensive line. Refilling when necessary(fluro lasts a long time) just requires spooling new line on the outer half of the spool.

Dan

fishbear reply :

Quote
fishbear: I get my German-made Maxima here.
As far as the expence of braid(and fluro) goes, all you have to do is fill the first half of the spool with a cheap mono and the outer half with the more expensive line. Refilling when necessary(fluro lasts a long time) just requires spooling new line on the outer half of the spool.

Dan

Thanks Dan,

that is the Maxima I grew to love drift fishing rivers, and fighting big fish...

Thanks again, gotta go place an order..

flechero reply :

Chris,

Your post suggests that using mono is wrong... because you do well with braid. You know as well as I do that what works best for one doesn't work best for all.

Right, wrong or indifferent, I am more successful with mono , I like and have more confidence in mono. So tell me, why would I want to change? (yes, I have used braid... and did not like it)

Fish Chris reply :

Okay, I guess the next logical question to any of you who don't like, or won't use braid is, "Why do you suppose so many of you have had so many problems with braid.... Yet these problems rarely, if ever, affect me ?

A few things I do have to respond to though; Breaking off braid when you are hopelessly snagged is "most definately easier" that breaking off stretchty arse mono ! I simply reel down to remove the slack, hold onto my spool (not my line) and give it a sharp yank. As soon as I have broken it off (or straightened the hook) and before reeling in, I simply pull out about 5 feet of line, before reeling back in, to unbury the minor dig in which is normal, and most easily fixable.

On the other hand, when my buddies snag with mono, even just like 12 or 15 lb, the next thing you see them doing is this big twist, and pull, twist, and pull some more ! :-) I always have to rip on them.... I call it "the mono dance" ! :-) LOL

So, braid is not as abrasion resistent around certain types of rock, and some fishes teeth ? This is the primary reason I always use a high quality fluorocarbon leader. Yes, with most aspects of terminal tackle, I do agree that fewer connections is better, but a "well tied" blood knot, or uni to uni, is so strong, and the benefits of using a real (excuse me.... braided :-)) main line, plus having a very abrasion resistent, low visibility fluorocarbon leader, are just too great "not" to add that one, very strong connection.

Ghoti, your whole post is just completely backwards to my experiences, but of course your welcome to your opinion. Again, the only thing I could ask you is, why do you suppose braided line causes "you" this long list of problems, but provides nearly nothing but great benefits for me ?

Anyway, a guy can either use braided line, or leave me with the advantage ;-)

Peace,

Fish

Hawgin reply :

"Okay, I guess the next logical question to any of you who don't like, or won't use braid is, "Why do you suppose so many of you have had so many problems with braid.... Yet these problems rarely, if ever, affect me ?"

"Again, the only thing I could ask you is, why do you suppose braided line causes "you" this long list of problems, but provides nearly nothing but great benefits for me ? "

Wow Fish Chris, while I am certainly impressed by your pictures of the big stipers you catch, and I will gladly admit you have more fishing knowledge than I do, but don't you think you're getting a little full of yourself? I live in KC not Cali. The majority of the bass lakes around here have 4-6 lbers in them, and as much as I like using braid I'm not best served using for all applications. I'm glad you like braided line, and it works for you, but don't treat the rest of us like idiots just because we don't prefer your type of fishing and your set ups.

Fish Chris reply :

Hey Hawgin, you asked, "Don't I think I am getting a bit full of myself" ??? No. Not whatsoever, and I sincerely apoligize if you took it that way.

It's just that after using mono for more than 20 years, and then braid for the last 13, I feel I have plenty experience to base my "mono vs. braid" argument on.

Hey Flech, it's just because "braid is better" :-) LOL

Seriously though guys, I have to admit, the first trip I tried braid, I hated it ! (but it was too expensive to throw away.... and at the time, a pretty long drive to get any kind of fishing line) It just didn't do anything like the mono I was so used to. The second trip probably was not much better...... although it was kind of amazing, when I was able to straighten a 5/0 stainless steel spinnerbait hook, and retrieve a brand new $4 lure ! I'll bet it took me 10 trips to start to get used to it, but as I did, I began to see more and more benefits. Too, it really helped when I went from that first "low grade Gorilla braid" and stepped up to Fenwick Iron Thread, and then to Spiderwire. I bet it took several months before braid felt completely normal too me, and maybe a few more, before I felt I could never go back to mono.

So therefore, when I hear guys talk about how they tried it, and hated it, I just have to believe that a large percentage of these guys, just never allowed themselves to get over the hump.... or past the learning curve, whatever you want to call it.

In any case, I certainly would not get mad at anybody, if they believe mono is better, and I see no reason for anyone to get mad at me for my opinion. You guys should already know that I am a whacked-out, fanatical, fish-headed fool, anyway ? How could a guy spend as much of his lifes energies on fishing, as I do, and "not" develop a few VERY strong personal opinions ?

Peace,

Fish

PS, Many of the best trophy bass guys I know, use mono..... so your not by yourself on that crazy train :-) (come on.... I'm trying to be light hearted about this :-)

Fish Chris reply :

that was a good tip you gave, about using a cheaper line for a backing.

But for those who want fill the spool with pure braid, simply wrap a small piece of electrical tape, duct tape, or my favorite (since I always have it around for wrapping my reel seats anyway) batters grip tape, all the way around the center of the spool first. Then wind on your braid tightly. It will basically cut into the tape, and glue it to your spool. When you go to replace your line, just leave the last 10 or 15 feet, and tie to the end of that. Guaranteed to never slip on your spool.

Peace,

Fish

Hawgin reply :

Chris-

I also apologize if I came acrossed as bitter and angry, even though to be honest that is how I am most of the time. I have been using 50 lb power pro for the last few years and I love it for certain applications. I think the positives far outweigh the negatives for braid. I just am not convinced that it is best for every application.

If anyone fishes a lot of stained to muddy water, and you want the highest level of sensitivity, then no doubt braid is the best option. I might be willing to give braid a try for some other types of applications, and I will always have it on for fishing jigs. I will say this, if I ever moved to Cali and started throwing the big baits, for the big boys, I would fish nothing but braid or a super heavy floro.

GAMEOVER reply :

I use 20lb Sufix in moss green almost 100% of the time. A true braided line handles better then any line on the market expecially when fishing with lures. Braid is so easy to handle and is the only line that has never broke on me. I have yet to lose a fish on braid. Ill continue to use lures and pigs worry free about ever losing either because of my braid. Try tieing a Polamer knot to a lure directly using each type of line and watch your lure perform flawlessly with braid while falling short using mono or fluoro.

Fish Chris reply :

now that this thread has evolved to this level, I must admit something here.....

I have actually found two situations where "mono" is better than braid. I just didn't mention this earlier, for concern that it might sound like I was arguing my own point (I had an ex girlfriend once, who was the Queen of that :-) LOL )

If you are one of the guys who likes to night fish with a blacklight, braid does not fluoresce. None of it. Not even the brightly colored stuff :-( I'm a lousy night fishermen anyway, so this is a non-issue for me. But it is something I am aware of, about braid.

The other one is, Crappie fishing. Geeez, I'd have thought that using a really soft micro-light rod, and a very light drag, and a fluorocarbon leader, would solve any problems that might be incurred from the use of braid................................... but for whatever weird and unexplainable reason, I have just done night and day better for Crappie, with 2 lb test fluorocarbon, than I ever did with micro-braid and a fluorocarbon leader ?

So yes, my point is, I understand that there are a few situations in which mono is better suited....... I just personally find those situations to be few and far between :-)

Now, is this more politically correct ? :-)

Great fishing to you, regardless of what line your using,

Peace,

Fish

Catt reply :

I've used braid line since the early 1960's, yes it's been around that long and longer, there was a time when mono didn't exist. While those were not your Super Lines of today they displayed the same problems. As a teenager I worked on my uncle's charter fishing boat in the Gulf of Mexico so I have a tiny bit of experience with braided line & mono.

Sorry Fish Chris there is no getting over the hump or getting past the learning curve, you simply learn to deal with it, same for mono user you deal with memory & stretch.

The only advantage is between you ears

flechero reply :

Chris,

I don't "promote" mono to everyone... just prefer it for myself. I know braid has it's good qualities, but in my case I saw more of the bad qualities while fishing.

I tried braid for an entire season and found that I caught fewer fish, had more trouble with snags, broke off in the rocks more and generally had less fun with it. I did not have good luck with leaders either. Not to mention casting was better for me with mono.

So in the end, you may be right about braid being "better" but I'm not willing to invest enough years in braid to forget that mono was better for me.

Maybe we should turn it around... Why do you think it is that I have had such good experiences with mono and you haven't? No, I haven't caught a 17 lb bass but I have caught LM, SM, striper, carp, cats and saltwater fish galore... eveh a few big fish along the way. I don't have trouble with the stretch, memory or any other aspect of mono... why do you think you do?

All in good clean fun. Different strokes for different folks.

p-funk reply :

Hey Chris, so you haven't had any problems on snapping off any of the BIG swimbaits on the braid? I just see so many recommend it all the time for swimbaits that I just completely stayed away from braid with them. I use braid for everything else and I have snapped off quite a few lures on the cast, which I'm sure is because I cast too hard or didn't check the line before casting. Just hate to see one of my expensive swimbaits soar through the air while using braid. I know mono can snap too, but it's just what everyone seems to recommend. Just curious on your thoughts on it with the big baits.

mister_fisherman reply :

I'v been putting off trying braid but now I think I wiil just stick with the good old standbys Yo-Zuri hybrid and Vanish transition line. I only use spin equipment cause I pretty muck suck at casting setups! LOL I have also read that braid can cause all sorts of damage to your rods guide system and reel. JMO

I have never really tried it so I cant give an evaluation but I do have a pony spool of fireline the guy at Gander Mnt. gave me to try. He said "You'll be back to buy more.." Well, I havn't. I'm sure it has it's purpose but for now I'm satisfied with what I have.

Grey Wolf reply :

Mister- Fisherman WELCOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You have been mis-informed about braids ruining your reels and rod guides.

Raul reply :

You 're not going to convince me Chris, I don 't like braid at all, I 've used it and nope, I don 't like it a little bit.

Gimme Trilene Big Game !

Siebert Outdoors reply :

You have to have the proper tools for the job. Some times I use braid but never in clear water. I like it and it performes well for me.

Not all lines are good for all fisherman. Each line and each fisherman have different characteristics and sometimes certain ones dont work together.

But me I really like braid and how it performs. Flouro is still my favorite.

castaway reply :

Quote
I simply reel down to remove the slack, hold onto my spool (not my line) and give it a sharp yank. As soon as I have broken it off (or straightened the hook) and before reeling in.....

Chris, What brand of reels are you using ?Thats got to be rough on the roller bearing and spool assembly.I would think it would be easier on the reel if you tied off on a cleat and powered the big motor up to break the braid off. ;D Actually , I liked Tuf line for deep water weed jigging, the Tuf line braid squeaks on the guides when a fish tries to take your jig on the soft bite days.

GAMEOVER reply :

If your a pure power angler braid can be your best friend! Let the women wear the floss :-?

In all seriousness I get nervous throwing more pricey lures on something other then braid, as a matter of fact I wont use them on other line and will resort to something else as I always lose stuff when I do use mono/fluoro/hybrid.

.ghoti. reply :

Chris, beats the heck outa me. You say potato, I say spuds. When I said "maybe I can convince you", I was pulling your leg a bit. It almost sounds as if your leg came off in my hand. If I've offended, you have my apologies. It was not my intention.

From discord arises discourse. And that's one of the ways this old dog learns new tricks.

I used to have braid on all my reels. I was one of the first around here to jump on the braid bandwagon. Iron Thread first, then Spiderwire. I loved it for the sensitivity. In that category, braid is the all time world champ. Nothing else even comes close. Not arguing that point. It's also the strongest stuff out there for any given diameter. Not disputing that either.

I used braid for several seasons, gradually becoming disenchanted with it. And it was not the knots, handling, digging, slipping, poor shock strength, wrap aroung everything kind of problems that did me in. It was being out fished time after time by guys using mono. This happened too many times to be some kind of aberation. Way too many times. More than often enough, by far, to be statistically significant. I even spent one year fishing braid and mono side by side to test this. That was the end of braid for me.

Note that I still have braid on my muskie rods, and on one bass rod I use for deep jigging and C-rigging.

When a braided line hits the market that's as hard to see underwater as flouro, then I might be persuaded to give it a try. Until then, thanks, but no thanks. I'll stick to the advantages I perceive in Flourocarbon line. ( perceive being the operative term here, for all of us )

On another tack, I've gradually switched to lighter line weights. As I've moved down the line weight scale, I've caught more fish and the fun factor has increased. For me that's what it's all about. Most of my bass fishing is done using 10lb test flouro. Sometimes 8, sometimes 12. Around here, a 5 pounder is a giant, and is a lot more fun on 10lb mono than on 65lb braid.

And Chris, if the fish in my area were anywhere near the size of those awesome pictures you posted, I might have a totally different view on the subject. If I caught a bass the size of some of yours, I'd need to change my shorts. My PB is an 8.

Cheers,

justtrying reply :

chris,

i've followed this thread w/interest because you've brought out a lot of the things that i've been thinking lately.

i used braid (power pro) on quite a few of my reels last year, but, decided i'd take it off & use Yo-Zuri ultra soft on most applications. i left the braid on my jig rods.

so, i bought lots of spools of YZ. then, i began to wonder why the braid wouldn't work. as you mentioned, strong, no memory, etc.....

now, i've put braid on approx half of my outfits & am leaning toward braid on the others. i even tried 10lb braid on my "noodle rod" (custom 7' ultra lite) it works Great! i've caught bass up to 3 lbs with no problem whatsoever; ...and, it'll allow me to throw a beetle or roadrunner a mile.

i'm still using yz on my shakey rod, but, am thinking about going to Gamma. i think that's one application that something other than braid would work better.

SO, i tend to agree with you on the braid. for me, it really works good. the positives outweigh the negatives & i think it is Great STuff.

ronnie

guest reply :

I use braid all the time. 50# pp to be exact. It doesn't dig into the spool very badly at that diameter.

As far as line wrapping around the tip of the rod. This takes alot of practice not to happen and also depends on where and what you fish. fishing a spook on a windy day = line wrap. The more practice the less it will happen.

One of the reasons I use only high end loomis and St croix rods is because damage I have done to guides with braid. These companies will send you the correct guide free of charge and your local tackle guy will repair it perfectly for less than 5 bucks.

I also use mono leader. REason 1 = confidence. It's just hard for me to throw a topwater on highly visible braid. Reason 2 = stretch. the mono will give a little shock absrobtion. reason 3. If hung up the 15 lb mono will break will break without too much effort, rather than the 50# Power pro.

correctly tying proper knots will minimize the "worries" some have with line to leader connections.

dodgeguy reply :

i would be suspect of any guide that braid damages.braid does not damage titanium nitrided guides, fuji alconite guides or fuji sic guides.

i need no convincing.i just bought some more sufix braid the other night.

senile1 reply :

Darn, I missed all the fun and games on this thread because it started this weekend. Oh well, great thread and excellent arguments on both sides of the equation. I use braid, copolymers, and mono for different situations. For the guys who don't like braid on spinning outfits, I've been running 10 lb braid on one of my spinning rods since Spring. I really like it, but about once an outing, it'll tangle around my rod tip if I'm not careful. Different strokes for different folks.

RoLo reply :

I believe the positives of braid FAR outweigh the negatives, mostly because the negatives are so highly elusive.

I'm a big stickler for performance and very criticial of product malfunction (one strike and you're out).

On the other hand, I'm not a nitpicker and don't complain about minor inconveniences.

GUIDE-EROSION

Damage to line-guides is a carryover fear from the original superlines, notably Spiderware Braid.

If you weren't using Titanium Nitride or Silicon Carbide line guides, the original spiderwire braid

would eventually erode a series of grooves in both your stripper guide and tip-top guide.

PowerPro Spectra is not abrasive and even cheap ceramic guides or aluminum oxide guides

will hold up indefinitely to PowerPro braid.

LINE-BURROWING

This is not a REAL problem, not unless you're horsing waterlogged stumps from the bottom of the lake.

And even at that, I don't consider anything a problem that can be quickly and easily remedied.

TIP-WRAP

In my experience, tip-wrap is very unusual, and if I hadn't read about it, it never would've occurred to me.

In any event, anything you can UNdo in your subconscious mind, is not what I consider a 'problem'.

LINE-STRETCH

Monofilament line sharply reduces our hook-ups when jig fishing and when fishing anything on a long line.

This I consider a MAJOR problem, because line-stretch interferes with the most sacred segment of fishing, "the Hook-Set".

LINE-MEMORY

PowerPro braid has zero memory and is pure unadulterated joy on spinning gear.

A Bird's Nest of wiry monofilament the size of a pineapple....NOW we have a problem!!

Roger

Siebert Outdoors reply :

You guys that fish braid for everything, have you noticed a difference in catch ratio to flourocarbon in clear to ultra clear water?

Me personally, I have. I've been handed a few whoopins, and then switched to flouro because of this flouro to braid catch ratios.

dodgeguy reply :

i've seen it go both ways in clear and stained water.it has nothing to do with the line.it has to do with who had the better presentation and who put the lure in front of the fish that would bite.

RoLo reply :

Quote
You guys that fish braid for everything, have you noticed a difference in catch ratio to flourocarbon in clear to ultra clear water?

I have an extremely high opinion of fluorocarbon line.

Unfortunately or fortunately, I use spinning gear for nearly everything (except shiner fishing, pike fishing & saltwater fishing).

Due to the memory of fluorocarbon, I've never made an honest comparison between fluoro and braid.

It's indisputable that fluorocarbon has less stretch than mono or copolymer, but braid has less stretch than fluorocarbon.

"Line invisibility" is the forte of fluorocarbon, but attaching a fluorocarbon leader to the main line, gives the braid user

all the same benefits. As for durability, fluoro and braid are probably a dead heat, depending more on line formulation

than line genre.

BTW:

I don't bother using a fluoro leader, and haven't noticed a decline in catch ratio compared to straight copolymer (I could be wrong).

Roger

fishinyank reply :

I tried power-pro (50lb) on one of my surf rods for a week in May, and was so dissappointed in it I've been afraid to spool it on any of my bass rods. The stuff frayed constantly, and broke, constantly. Knots also seemed to like to slide out of it. Now this is just casual "chuck the bait and wait while I have few beers" surf fishing, so I wasn't asking a whole lot from braided line, just that it didn't break. But it did. Alot. I couldn't imagine trying to fish this stuff for bass and put the demands on it that I do on mono, it would be a nightmare. But I waill give it a shot, though. I have to! If its as sensetive as everyone says it is its got to be worth a shot, plus I 'm not going to throw it out cause it's too expensive!

Catt reply :

I don't carry but 4 rod-n-reels, 2 Texas Rigs with 15# Berkley Big Game, 1 Spinner Bait/Rat-L-Trap with 15# Berkley Big Game, & 1 Flippn Rig with 50# Power Pro.

Since I fish mainly on Toledo Bend there is no need for a leader with the braid because of the immense amount of cover. I've used Power Pro for only a year but normally use Cabela's Ripcord because I prefer Micro Dyneema 65 over Spectra.

The only thing I hate about braid is when you set hook and it aint a fish but a stump or log the pain that shoots up your arm will bring tears to your eyes.

RoLo reply :

Quote
I've used Power Pro for only a year but normally use Cabela's Ripcord because I prefer Micro Dyneema 65 over Spectra.

Catt, I don't think I'd be off-topic if I asked you, what specific properties of Ripcord do you prefer over PowerPro?

Catt reply :

I can't really put it into words, it's more about how it transmits the feel of what my baits is doing on the bottom. It's like how Tungsten bullet weights feel totally different on the bottom than a lead weight does.

It just aint right

Catt reply :

I guess what all those years of night fishing has taught me is how to really feel what my bait is doing. It's no BS I can feel my Texas Rig with a ¼ oz weight when it hits bottom in 15 to 18' of water. Things just have to feel a certain way and when they don't I know it's time to set hook.

dodgeguy reply :

Quote
I tried power-pro (50lb) on one of my surf rods for a week in May, and was so dissappointed in it I've been afraid to spool it on any of my bass rods. The stuff frayed constantly, and broke, constantly. Knots also seemed to like to slide out of it. Now this is just casual "chuck the bait and wait while I have few beers" surf fishing, so I wasn't asking a whole lot from braided line, just that it didn't break. But it did. Alot. I couldn't imagine trying to fish this stuff for bass and put the demands on it that I do on mono, it would be a nightmare. But I waill give it a shot, though. I have to! If its as sensetive as everyone says it is its got to be worth a shot, plus I 'm not going to throw it out cause it's too expensive!

you either have counterfeit powerpro or you are using the wrong knot.a palomar knot with a dab of crazy glue will NEVER fail.

fishinyank reply :

Im pretty sure it wasn't counterfit as I got it from Cabelas. But I didnt try the crazy glue, which i have to admit I'm not "crazy" about, you don't need to do that with mono!

RoLo reply :

Okay, this will be the last time that I type this.

For the life of me, I do not understand why anyone would have any knot problems with PowerPro Spectra!!

I use nothing but a Uni-Knot with PowerPro Spectra for tying to swivels, to hooks and to lures with treble hooks

(try that with a palomar knot). When a Uni-Knot is used with PowerPro braid, no glue of any kind is necessary (God forbid),

you don't have to wet the line, the line will not break and the knot will not slip.

A 5-wrap Uni-Knot will suffice, but if you're dealing with ungrounded fears that the knot may break, slip or whatever,

just add a couple more wraps. Anything more than 5 or 6 wraps is a waste of time, but if it makes you feel better, go for it.

When changing a lure during the middle of a hot bite, I usually tie a quick "four-wrap" Uni-Knot, and it has yet to fail me.

Roger

Fish Chris reply :

Well, I'm glad to see that this thread has gotten back to a more comfortable, "to each his own" attitude" :-)

Bottom line is, braid has just made my whole fishing experience night and day, better than when I used to use mono. I'm simply convinced that guys who have all kinds of problems with braid, like breaking off for no apparent reason, tip wraps, knots slipping, etc, have just not learned how to use braid to its fullest potential..... or maybe I should say, they have not made the changes neccessary, when coming away from mono. The fact that I have had such great success with braid, proves that a very positive experience with braid is "possible" for anybody, even if this is not what the next guy has experienced for himself.

Now, while I did give a few examples myself, of situations in which braid is not the best choice, these situations are very rare, with braid being the best choice (certainly for myself, anyway :-)) 98% of the time.

Peace,

Fish

Catt reply :

We pride ourselves in producing a very high quality braided Spectra line. The Spectra fiber that we use is manufactured by Honeywell fibers here in the US. They are one of three companies in the world making a Gel Spun PE fiber. The other two are DSM (Dyneema) and Toyobo (Dyneema). Western Filament was the original manufacturer of braided PE lines for use in fishing. We introduced this type of material for fishing purposes in 1990 only two years after the fiber became commercially available. We have been braiding fishing lines since 1938 so we are hardly in business to make "junk" and do not plan on filing bankruptcy in the near future.

Our TUF Line XP is 100% spectra fiber with no cores or fillers. The lines are made on a standard Maypole style braiding machines just as Power Pro and Whiplash. Our lines are all rated at straight pull strength and not at the knot. Our lines on average break at approximately 20% higher than the rated strength on a straight pull. We normally see a loss of 35% strength at the knot. Typically a 50 pound XP braid will break at 40 pounds at the knot. I know that the Japanese braids are very small and round with a tightness not found in US braids but is it necessary to have this expensive of a braid? We have found that most US anglers cannot tell the difference or will not pay the price for a tightly braided PE line compared to one of mid-tightness.

I am not sure if this answers the questions posed by the forum but hopefully it will shed some light on the subject. Let me know if you have any questions. Thanks.

Best regards,

Rex Nelson

Western Filament, Inc

the ohh face reply :

I didnt have time to read all the posts on this thread so i dont know if anyone has mentioned it but it seems that most good braid is a LOT more expensive than comparable strength of any other line. That is a pretty good reason for me to stick mainly to mono.

.ghoti. reply :

OK that's it. I'm gonna give his braid stuff another shot. After seeing what RoLo and Avid had to say; two gentlemen whos opinions Ive come to respect, I'm not going to be totally pig-headed about it. Besides my sweetie just brought home two spools of Spiderwire she picked up off the clearance rack at Wally world. One spool each of 30 and 40lb test. It must be a conspiracy.

I just finished rebuilding two older Quantum reels. I think the # is EX600, or something like that. I had broken the slide cam on both by overtightening the screws during the re-assembly process, completely dorking up the magnetic cast control. They are both in fine condition now. These are wider spool reels than most of mine, and hold quite a bit of line. I'll spool them up halfway with some elcheapo mono, and top off with the braid. I'll use the 30lb test on one reel and the 40 on the other. Went out to the garage and dug out two older Berkley rods. Both are 7' rods. One is medium power, one is med-heavy. The medium rod will get the 30lb test and the med-heavy rod will get the 40. They're both about 7 or 8 years old, IM6 graphite, and what I'd call moderate action. If I could remember what the rod names where, I'd tell ya, but I don't. One may be a Bionix or something like that. The other I don't recall anything regarding a name or series.

Will these rods be OK to start with using the braid. I really don't want to buy more just now.

I probably won't have any results to report until next year.

Good luck,

dodgeguy reply :

do yourself a favor and bring the spiderwire back.replace it with sufix or powerpro.if you don't do that you will get a false impression of what braid is like.

senile1 reply :

Just a note to the PowerPro users of which I used to be one.

A lot of guys love PowerPro. I loved and used PowerPro exclusively for braid applications until early this summer. Dodgeguy got my attention with his posts on Sufix Performance Braid so I bought a spool. I'm still using some 10 lb test PowerPro on one of my spinning reels because I had a spool left, but I'm using Sufix for all my braid needs now. When I respool that reel I'll be using Sufix. It beats PowerPro with less fraying, better casting, and flows much smoother through the line guides. You may disagree but its worth it to try out a spool if you haven't.

Catt reply :

Here are some interesting facts about braid, along with a test of whose is strongest

http://www.floridasportsman.com/gear/051148/

justtrying reply :

Quote
Here are some interesting facts about braid, along with a test of whose is strongest
http://www.floridasportsman.com/gear/051148/

WOW, ...thanks Catt for pointing out that test.

for instance: i'm using 10 lb power pro on my ultra lite spinning outfit. it's a 7' rod w/a shimano sustain reel. i can cast mini lures (beetles, roadrunners, etc.) a LOONNGG way & have yet to have one break off. now i know why..24 Pound breaking strength!!!! with a TWO POUND diameter, No Memory, i mean, MAN, what more could you want? i've used it quite a bit & it shows No shedding, fraying, or anything negative. .....i may take it off & replace it.....but, Not Today! LOL

BTW, Thanks Chris for beginning this thread. this is the kind of thing that let's you see & evaluate what will actually help make your fishing more productive.

2253

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