Reels....do you stick with one brand? 2024
bigjean663 reply :
Pretty simple here, just curious to see how many people out there stick to one brand exclusively and if it’s by choice or another reason such as a sponsorship. Not comparing popularity of companies or anything it’s more just me trying to settle an argument with my brain.
A-Jay reply :
May see a wide array of responses to this one; including plenty from the fan boys.
I have been using Shimano spinning & round casting reels and Quantum for my low profile casting reel needs for the last several years.
A-Jay
FishTank reply :
Nope. I like certain brands but I own rods from G. Loomis, St. Croix, Shimano (before they purchased Loomis), Fenwick, Abu Garcia, Daiwa and All Star. Reels from Shimano, Daiwa, and Abu Garcia.
Joshua van Wyk reply :
I have 2 daiwa reels and 1 shimano. My dad uses only shimanos. I have 2 dobyns rods and one Abu.
Glaucus reply :
I'm a weird case probably. For spinning gear I'm truly a Fenwick rod and Pflueger reel fanboy. For casting gear there are several companies I like and my choices come down to whoever has the exact specs in the exact price ranges that I'm looking for.
RB 77 reply :
Yes. I use Shimano and Shimano only. I have tried all the major brands (Daiwa, Abu, Quantum, Lews, etc.) and IMHO Shimano is the best of the bunch for various reasons. I do believe Daiwa makes a comparable product; they are just not my cup o' tea. More specially, I use the "E" series primarily. I have been "hoarding" various E series reels throughout the years. I have used all the different Curado variations for several years and the E series just has that certain "it” factor to them.
CroakHunter reply :
I am a big fan of Daiwa. Especially the ct style reels. Its all I own. But don't have a problem with shimano reels either. Just not my favorite.
MN Fisher reply :
Given the number of years my Abu Garcias have given me (my old Mitchell 320 lasted 25 years of hard use, my Cardinal 562 is over 30 years old and my Ambassadeur 500R is over 20) I'd have to say that Garcia is one of my two brands.
My Pflueger 640 has also given me over 30 years of use, so Pflueger is my second favorite brand.
This past year, added a Pflueger Trion spinning reel and a Garcia Avocet spinning reel to my 'hoard'.
bigjean663 reply :
On 12/24/2018 at 4:06 AM, A-Jay said:May see a wide array of responses to this one; including plenty from the fan boys.
I have been using Shimano spinning & round casting reels and Quantum for my low profile casting reel needs for the last several years.
A-Jay
Hey A-Jay yeah I kinda expected it to be a whole lot of favorites mostly of the top brands. I was really curious to see if there were members on here who were loyal to one brand. Most of the time when someone is loyal to one particular brand of whatever it is, there’s a good reason. A lot of the time those reasons are pretty good reads lol
A-Jay reply :
On 12/24/2018 at 5:05 AM, bigjean663 said:Hey A-Jay yeah I kinda expected it to be a whole lot of favorites mostly of the top brands. I was really curious to see if there were members on here who were loyal to one brand. Most of the time when someone is loyal to one particular brand of whatever it is, there’s a good reason. A lot of the time those reasons are pretty good reads lol
Clearly ~
And I am definitely loyal to gear that performs on the water with Quality, Dependability & Durability.
I've fished tackle that did not offer that for me (none that I mentioned) and so I moved on.
A-Jay
bigjean663 reply :
On 12/24/2018 at 5:31 AM, A-Jay said:Clearly ~
And I am definitely loyal to gear that performs on the water with Quality, Dependability & Durability.
I've fished tackle that did not offer that for me (none that I mentioned) and so I moved on.
A-Jay
Makes perfect sense
NittyGrittyBoy reply :
Lew's, Abu, Duckett, Dobyns, unmentionable brand. I'm not brand loyal at all.
If it fits my need and is within my price range, I'm using it.
Big Rick reply :
Daiwa Tatula - because of the SV spool that totally changed my ability to skip and cast lighter baits with much more accuracy.
Lew Tourney Pros - because I seldom fish alone and co-anglers that need an extra can't hurt them. They're built like a tank and cast reasonably well.
Shimano Curado K - because it's the smoothest reel for the money I have ever held in my hand.
Technological advances in reels is almost as wild and fast as computer technology. You barely get a reel broken in and the next best thing has come out and all the pros are gaga over it. However, these 3 I listed have proven themselves to me to be real and not hype.
Jig Man reply :
I only use Shimano. I carry 18 bc and spinning setups in the boat.
Gundog reply :
For me price matters more than brand. I try to get the best bang for my buck. Sometimes that doesn't happen but occasionally I find the best combination of quality and price. Brand never comes into play. I don't even consider it.
Matt_3479 reply :
I have had in the past year 5-6 different brands of rods and 3 different brands of reels but I’m slowly starting to find what I like more then others. Shimano reels are by far the best for me! But for rods I’m mainly a loomis guy, but there’s a few other Brands so far I’ve been pretty fond of!
NYWayfarer reply :
I have bought and used reels from all the big and small brands. Over the years I have had my favorite brands shift.
Over the past two years all the reels I have bought have been from Lew’s and Kastking.
I really like Lew’s products and my mission this year is to upgrade all my budget gear with Lew’s reels in the $100+ range. I have a good start with the Mach Crush reels (spinning and casting) Tournament MB, LFS and the Tournament Speed Spin. That should get me through 2019 and beyond.
Way north bass guy reply :
My rod locker looks like a tackle store through up in it, it’s about every brand of rod and reel has been and is in there. If it works well, I don’t care what name is on the side of it. But I am definitely over the “budget” equipment, I’m not buying the most expensive rods and reels ever made but I’m also not buying any more entry level stuff, I know it works but it seems the cheaper stuff is either rougher to use ( reels), or much heavier than the more expensive stuff ( rods).
stratoliner92 reply :
I've got several Shimano, Abu, Lews, Quantum, Pflueger. I figure if you don't try different brands how will you know. Same with rods
NHBull reply :
Shimano has treated me well and that is all I have.
Jelvas reply :
Nope! I have reels from Shimano, Daiwa, Abu and Lews at the moment... i do like my Shimanos better, but i will buy other brands if i get a better deal on them.
tander reply :
I have all Lews casting reels and all Pflueger spinning reels. In fact, all my Lews are the same model just different gear ratios.
Mobasser reply :
ABU round casting, Shimano spinning is what I've used for years, but there are many good brands now.
CrankFate reply :
I usually use Shimano, Daiwa & abu, but I have others, even weird stuff like JDM Ryobi reels someone gave me.
GeekFisher reply :
I use to have only Shimano reels. I now prefer to go with the best tool that fits the budget. I own Shimano, Pflueger, Kastking, Piscifun and Johncoo and (Okuma fly) reels. For rods, my first choice been Fenwick for a few years now unless they dont produce what I need. I own Fenwicks, St.Croix, Quantum, Rapala, (Reddington, TFO and Amundson fly)
I only miss 1 spinning rod in my arsenal and may replace the frog rod with a longer one.
LonnieP reply :
I have all Daiwa reels except for one Shimano Chronarch CI4. I highly doubt I’ll ever buy a reel that’s not a Daiwa or Shimano.
outlawflies reply :
I love my Lew's baitcasters, but don't care much for their spinning reels. I am currently running okuma spinning reels.
Vilas15 reply :
Ive got a few different kinds. Like anything else in life, even if ive got something i like i still try other things to see if theyre even better. I can't imagine being one of those guys who has like 5 or 10 of the exact same reel.
BigAngus752 reply :
All of my baitcasters are Daiwa (just a personal preference, not claiming superiority) except for my two frog/flipping rods that both have Abu Garcia Revo SX on them (huge drag and great spools for heavy braid). My favorite spinning reel is a Daiwa Fuego. I bought a KastKing Sharky 2 and was really pleasantly surprised. I would not pass up a Sharky 3 for a great price. Most recently I decided to try Plueger and I bought a President XT. Big mistake. I wish I had bought another Fuego or Sharky. So I guess I am gradually narrowing it down to just a couple brands.
Delaware Valley Tackle reply :
Every brand has stand out models and quality offerings north of $100 and sometimes less. I see the logic in consistency but personally own and use an eclectic collection of tackle.
Team9nine reply :
On 12/24/2018 at 10:31 AM, Delaware Valley Tackle said:Every brand has stand out models and quality offerings north of $100 and sometimes less. I see the logic in consistency but personally own and use an eclectic collection of tackle.
This ^^
Have my favorites (Daiwa and Shimano mostly), but my tackle collection is a hodge-podge.
12poundbass reply :
On 12/24/2018 at 5:31 AM, A-Jay said:Clearly ~
And I am definitely loyal to gear that performs on the water with Quality, Dependability & Durability.
I've fished tackle that did not offer that for me (none that I mentioned) and so I moved on.
A-Jay
This right here. I'm loyal to Abu Garcia. I've bought two other brands and neither met my expectations. Abu Garcia has yet to fail me. From the cheapest to the mid priced reels I've been happy, so why switch. I'm also a creature of habit and do tend to venture out of my comfort zone, so that's anothere reason.
Hook2Jaw reply :
Bills, a wedding to save for, and a son on the way. I look for quality at a good price.
All of my baitcasting reels are currently Daiwa. I do feel at 60 dollars, they are the best option available on the market. I plan to continue to spend my money on Daiwa products. They're both on unmentionable rods.
I had several Bantam Curados stolen. My Abu Garcia Pro Max was stolen. I froze a BPS PQ2 up when I rolled my kayak in the salt. I gave my Black Max to my uncle.
Never had a problem with the Abu entry reels or the older Shimano offerings. I believe a lot of the equipment available is worth it's price. I've just fallen in love with a spectacular model and I'm throwing my loyalty to that company due to it.
Several of my spinners are still Penn reels on Penn or Wright and McGill rods, but those are strictly inshore setups.
Catt reply :
I believe in keeping my tools simple, functional, durable & dependable!
One can go to Wal/Mart, Harbor Freight, Sears or some other outlet store to buy mechanic, carpenter, electrician, machinist tools ECT and these tools will work but they are not designed for commercial use. Yes these tools wills last the weekend guy a lifetime of light to medium use and serve him quite well.
Now look at it through my eyes I am a journeyman carpenter/mechanic my tools are what I make my livelihood with so I must depend on my tools to perform every single time I use them under every conceivable conditions with limited failure.
Now relate this to bass fishing; when I hit the lake it will be from sunup to sunset, under extremely adverse conditions, and with full expectations of bass in excess of 6 pounds so any failure on the part of my tools is not accepted.
Calcutta: solid as an anvil, versatile as a pair of Channellocks®, & dependable as a 30/30 ????
I do own 1 Citica,1 Lew's & 1 H2O Express
Westcoast reply :
I’m definitely not loyal to brand buying reels. I’ve got lots of abus as I can usually find them at good discounts and they are good reels. I did go and buy a tatula sv and thought it was great and ended up with a few more. I tried the zillion next and was not so impressed just didn’t feel much ahead of the tatula in performance. Saw some good reviews on the Shimano mgl reels so bought a bantam and chronarch. They are spectacular reels, that bantam is the best low pro salmon/steelhead reel I’ve ever found. Next I stepped up and bought an alderbaran to go with and nrx that was a steal of a deal and I love the combo, it’s pretty incredible. If I buy anymore reels soon, I’ll probably stick with Shimano as the curado dc has been calling my name.
Mobasser reply :
On 12/24/2018 at 12:10 PM, Catt said:I believe in keeping my tools simple, functional, durable & dependable!
One can go to Wal/Mart, Harbor Freight, Sears or some other outlet store to buy mechanic, carpenter, electrician, machinist tools ECT and these tools will work but they are not designed for commercial use. Yes these tools wills last the weekend guy a lifetime of light to medium use and serve him quite well.
Now look at it through my eyes I am a journeyman carpenter/mechanic my tools are what I make my livelihood with so I must depend on my tools to perform every single time I use them under every conceivable conditions with limited failure.
Now relate this to bass fishing; when I hit the lake it will be from sunup to sunset, under extremely adverse conditions, and with full expectations of bass in excess of 6 pounds so any failure on the part of my tools is not accepted.
Calcutta: solid as an anvil, versatile as a pair of Channellocks®, & dependable as a 30/30 ????
I do own 1 Citica,1 Lew's & 1 H2O Express
Catt, good way to say it! That's why, for the last 30 some years, I've seen an Estwing blue handled framing hammer on every job I've worked on. At least one guy will have one. Tough, durable, and gets it done every time!
new2BC4bass reply :
On 12/24/2018 at 3:55 AM, bigjean663 said:Pretty simple here, just curious to see how many people out there stick to one brand exclusively and if it’s by choice or another reason such as a sponsorship. Not comparing popularity of companies or anything it’s more just me trying to settle an argument with my brain.
I own something like 10 reel brands and 17 rod brands. I like trying different brands. Almost all bought sight unseen. I rely on reviews and opinions of fellow forum members. I have seldom been disappointed.
bigfruits reply :
All of my reels are Shimano now although I like and have owned plenty of Daiwas.
i have been buying the $300 Shimano JDM reels the last few years. Aldebaran, Metanium.
At a lower price point, the Curado 70/71 would be my choice. Although not as small as the Aldebaran, it is more comfortable in my hands and holds plenty of line for 99% of my large mouth fishing.
kenmitch reply :
I'm not brand loyal, but I may be somewhat brand selective.
I prefer to go the bang for the buck route and select the one that I can get the best deal on at the time of need. Luckily there's usually more than one option available that will soot my needs which really helps in the bang for the buck department.
My reels are Abu, BPS Carbonlite 2.0, Lew's, Lew's, Pflueger, Lew's, Abu.
The last reel I bought was a Abu C4-5600 for my swimbait rig. I set out with the intent of buying a Shimano Cardiff but got one of those too good to pass up deals on the Abu. I had to exercise some willpower to get really good bang for the buck for my swimbait combo. In the end after ebay bucks I'm into the Abu and a Dobyns Fury 795SB for around $112 shipped. I did have to jump thru some hoops to achieve the deals but well worth it in the end.
I do have a couple of Lew's reels I'd like to upgrade at some time but I'm in no hurry. I'll wait it out for one of those too good to pass on deals that pop up from time to time.
ohboyitsrobby reply :
I have everything from Shimano to pinnacles and all variety in between. Rods from St Croix ltb to a berkley amp. I'm loyal to my wallet.
Dens228 reply :
All of my reels except one are Lew's. That one is a Quantum. I love my Lew's reels but also my Quantum.
I like knowing what I'm getting with my purchase. Same with rods. Once I find what I like I don't see the reason to experiment.
volzfan59 reply :
I'm a one brand guy for the most part. All of my baitcasters are mostly BPS Platinums, I still have a few Pro Qualifiers in use. All of my spare casters are Pro Qualifiers.
My spinning reel are mostly BPS Johnny Morris signature series. I do have one Pflueger President and one Shimano Stradic use. All of my spare spinning reels are JM signature series.
fishwizzard reply :
I am about 99% Daiwa at this point. I am so used to their brake system(s) that I have a hard time looking at other brands. I also have enough reels now that spool-compatibility is a huge plus when it comes to sticking with Daiwa.
BaitFinesse reply :
On 12/25/2018 at 12:12 AM, fishwizzard said:I am about 99% Daiwa at this point. I am so used to their brake system(s) that I have a hard time looking at other brands. I also have enough reels now that spool-compatibility is a huge plus when it comes to sticking with Daiwa.
Pretty much this but with the occasional Shimano or used Abu.
Bankbeater reply :
Currently I have Daiwa, Abu, and Shimano bc reels. My spinning reels are all Pfluegers.
OCdockskipper reply :
For Spinning, I pretty much stick to Shimano because they are the only one that still manufactures a model that has some old school features that I want. Plus there is a Shimano factory facility minutes from my house, if I ever have issues with a reel, it is quicker to go there then any retail place.
For casting, I have Shimano, Abu Garcia and a couple different BPS models. No issues switching from one to another, but I did find that each has characteristics that lend themselves to certain lure weights & techniques (for me).
Oddly enough, my first setups for both spinning & casting were Daiwa (40 years ago). I really liked both and like the looks of current Daiwa products, I just never have pulled the trigger on buying another.
Fishingmickey reply :
I have been a Shimano fan boy for many, many years. I've tried some of the Abu garcia Black max and Silver max round reels probably 20 years ago and they didn't last. They sucked.
Since I started kayak tournament fishing. My rod and reel collection has exploded to close to 30 set ups. Almost all of my reels are Shimano. The last year and a half or so I have gotten a couple of baitcasters. Diawa 105SV and a not to be mentioned ***. I just my first Daiwa spinning reel from the TW 25 days sale. A EM-MS2506H-JDM Have had a couple of outing with it. I have been pleased so far with my non-Shimano selections. I really think that the reel manufacturers have really upped their game in the last 10 years.
Fishingmickey
Sam reply :
Yes.
Mainly Shimano but I have two Lew's.
scbassin reply :
I did not start bass fishing until the late 60's when I was transferred to U.S.S. Thornback SS 418 in Charleston SC. The COB found out I liked to fish so we started fishing together, He was a bass fisherman so that is how I got started. Back then I was using a Mitchell 300. In the early to mid 70's I was on the U.S.S. Barracuda SST 3 which had several bass fisherman on it. We heard of a military bass club forming & some of joined & it was then I started learning about all the baits & equipment & baits used. Upon joining I had the option to buy a Bass Pro Catalog. That is when I bought 6 Garcia Ambassadeur 5001C baitcasting reels & 6Lews Speed Sticks. 2 or 3 years later A big tackle wholesaler was going out of business & the X.O. Informed us about it & asked who was going(we were in port). At lunch time 4 of us piled into the X.O.'s car & headed downtown. When we left our next stop was the Chief's Club so we could discuss our goodies & have a beer(the real reason for the stop). My bootie was 6 Shimano Bantam 2001 Magnumlite GT Plus reels. From that day on I have been a Shimano guy. I have 80 plus Shimano Reels now with a Japanese version of the Bantam MGL on the way, hopefully it gets here today. I have tried other reels along the way but have sold them all except 1. Reason being is Shimano's all set up about the same & there not much of a change when you shift from 1 set up to another. A big plus is the customer service, I have never had a issue but only had to use them 2 or 3 times over the years. Plus on another site Bantam 1 is there if you need help. Well bigjean663 there is your story & answer. To all Have A MERRY CHRISTMAS !
bigjean663 reply :
@scbassin wow.....just wow. I hope your JDM reel gets here today and you and the family have a very merry Christmas. Thank you for sharing.
Man, these replies have been perfect. As I said earlier I didn’t have a reason for making the post other than just for random knowledge. I greatly appreciate you guys time and effort into making these responses.
new2BC4bass reply :
On 12/25/2018 at 12:12 AM, fishwizzard said:I am about 99% Daiwa at this point. I am so used to their brake system(s) that I have a hard time looking at other brands. I also have enough reels now that spool-compatibility is a huge plus when it comes to sticking with Daiwa.
I'd have to have in the neighborhood of 350 reels for them to be 99% Daiwa. I learned on an original Fuego and like Daiwa braking systems. A bit over half my baitcast reels are Daiwa.
fishwizzard reply :
On 12/25/2018 at 3:05 AM, new2BC4bass said:I'd have to have in the neighborhood of 350 reels for them to be 99% Daiwa. I learned on an original Fuego and like Daiwa braking systems. A bit over half my baitcast reels are Daiwa.
Ok, it's actually 88.235294117647% Daiwa. ????
FishDewd reply :
Absolutely not. I'm not so easily sold on one brand for -everything-. I pick something up... analyze... test it.... feel it... analyze it some more... if I think it could work I then consult reviews (most of the time, unless I'm 100% sure I love it), then decide whether to buy it. I often even find another brand/modle closest to it and mentally pick both a part before making a decision. Maybe this comes with my career in mechanics lol. But no, I'm not gonna pick one brand or another simply because of name. That's the most limiting thing one can do imo.
Boomstick reply :
I'm admittedly a Daiwa and Pflueger fan boy, but Shimano, Lews, Abu Garcia etc are all pretty good too.
My go to casting reels are the Daiwa Tatula SV for added breaking, the Tatula CT (budget option) or Pflueger Supreme XT for distance, and for spinning reels there isn't much that a more expensive reel will have to offer over the Daiwa BG but the Daiwa RG or Pflueger President is a solid option on a budget.
I got my oldest son a Shimano Curado K and my youngest a Pflueger Supreme XT which is not only cheaper, but brakes better, casts further and is a smoother reel all around. The only thing the Shimano might have on it is possibly a more even drag -- not that the Curado is a bad reel or anything, I was just surprised how much I liked the Supreme XT.
Heartland reply :
Most of mine are Daiwa, long before the T-Wing and everything said Tatula on it. Also own a couple of special Gen 2 Revo's that I really like.
the reel ess reply :
I like Lew's and own 3 of the Tourney MB model. I can't say that I've used them all and neither can most people that will swear by one brand. But the Lew's reels are very good quality for the cost. The only other one I've bought in the last few years was an Academy H2O brand that has been a very good reel as well. I'm not into spending $200 on one reel. I would really think that the upper half of the lineup of all reel mfgs would be just as good or better than what I have.
NathanDLTH reply :
Daiwa or Shimano. That’s all I use, only other reel I could see myself using is megabass.
Brett Stair reply :
I’m brand loyal to Abu Garcia for a simple reason... I know how to adjust the drag systems and don’t want to have to learn another brand.
My first reel coming back to bass fishing was a Revo SX left handed I picked up on clearance at Cabelas for $70. Probably spoiled me.... and made me prefer left handed reels. Picked up a Revo X and a Black Max. Definitely prefer the SX. Just found another SX for $90 on Amazon and jumped on it and plan on picking up an X 5.4 and a crankbait rod tomorrow with some gift cards.
I don’t care for spinning reels but have a Lew’s combo I picked up at Cabela’s as well.
scbassin reply :
I did not start bass fishing until the late 60's when I was transferred to U.S.S. Thornback SS 418 in Charleston SC. The COB found out I liked to fish so we started fishing together, He was a bass fisherman so that is how I got started. Back then I was using a Mitchell 300. In the early to mid 70's I was on the U.S.S. Barracuda SST 3 which had several bass fisherman on it. We heard of a military bass club forming & some of joined & it was then I started learning about all the baits & equipment & baits used. Upon joining I had the option to buy a Bass Pro Catalog. That is when I bought 6 Garcia Ambassadeur 5001C baitcasting reels & 6Lews Speed Sticks. 2 or 3 years later A big tackle wholesaler was going out of business & the X.O. Informed us about it & asked who was going(we were in port). At lunch time 4 of us piled into the X.O.'s car & headed downtown. When we left our next stop was the Chief's Club so we could discuss our goodies & have a beer(the real reason for the stop). My bootie was 6 Shimano Bantam 2001 Magnumlite GT Plus reels. From that day on I have been a Shimano guy. I have 80 plus Shimano Reels now with a Japanese version of the Bantam MGL on the way, hopefully it gets here today. I have tried other reels along the way but have sold them all except 1. Reason being is they all set up about the same & there not much of a change when you shift from 1 set up to another. A big plus is the customer service, I have never had a issue but only had to use them 2 or 3 times over the years. Plus on another site Bantam 1 is there if you need help
scbassin reply :
Well Bigjean663 the Japanese version of my Bantam MGL arrived yesterday. I ended up paying $265.33 Shipped. Can't beat that plus it has one more bearing than the U.S. version. Today requires me to go for lunch at my favorite Chinese restaurant, they have a Japanese cook so when the lunch crowd leaves he comes & shows me the in's & out's of the reel.
LionHeart reply :
I used to shy away from Diawa reels due to a bad experience with one of their lower priced reels. To spite all the hoopla about the mag force breaking I just couldn't bring myself to buy one. After finding a great deal I bought my first Tatula. Loved it, and bought another.
I realized that everyone wasn't wrong and that Diawa makes very good reels in the mid price range. Before that I used only Lews, and Abu reels.
Next I think I'll have to try a Shimano Curado. They get a lot of positive reviews from just about everyone.
Brand loyal, sure. Brand exclusive? Naw.
MPM IV reply :
On 12/24/2018 at 5:45 AM, Big Rick said:Daiwa Tatula - because of the SV spool that totally changed my ability to skip and cast lighter baits with much more accuracy.
Lew Tourney Pros - because I seldom fish alone and co-anglers that need an extra can't hurt them. They're built like a tank and cast reasonably well.
Shimano Curado K - because it's the smoothest reel for the money I have ever held in my hand.
I own these same three reels and a high end unmentionable. I picked them up on various sales and really like all of them. To date, none of them have had mechanical issues. I just like trying different things.
RyneB reply :
I prefer Abu Garcia because they fit my hand better because I have small hands. But I also own a Daiwa Tatula, and 3 Curados. I have nothing negative to say about any of them. The Tatula isnt the best feeling or lightest reel I own, but it casts like a dream and performs well.
YoTone reply :
Im partial to Daiwa because their customer service has treated me better than I imagined.
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