And Here's Why Metal Ringed Guides Suck. 2024
S Hovanec reply :
Got an Abu Villain in for repair today. The repair wasn't guide related, so I'll get to that later. Upon inspection, I noticed the tip was severely grooved from the line. Upon further inspection, all of the guides were grooved to some degree. Here are the best pics I could come up with showing the damage. I replace a few grooved tips every year, but this is the worst one I've ever seen. This rod is less than 2 years old.
Now to the reason it was brought in for repair. It seems the handle section is built on a separate piece of blank than the rest of the rod. This joint came un-bonded. Guess it's a 2 piece rod, kinda?
From the description on TW : "Titanium alloy guides with Ti inserts help reduce weight further and provide excellent durability, while a C6 Total Exposure reel seat puts you in complete contact with the rod blank and delivers maximum sensitivity transfer"
I call BS on the durability of the guides. Also BS on the complete contact with the blank thing, unless they mean through a sloppy fitting and poorly glued splice.
Hi Salenity reply :
Wow, that's sneeky and disappointing !
Alonerankin2 reply :
Wow! Great photo- doc. I would quit fishing if I had to use Abu- anything.. Lol.. Geez, what crap. I really hate to be negative but some company's deserve it, I guess....good luck on the repair..
S Hovanec reply :
I had a Diawa spinning rod of some sorts in for a guide repair years ago. The stripper guide needed replaced. I cut the wrap off and there was a splice hidden under the wrap. Abu isn't the only one doing it. At least this one isn't in the middle of the rod like the Diawa.
Alonerankin2 reply :
I had a diawa green rod years ago @ clearance for 39 it had a solid graphite tip spliced in.. It was kinda different ..
Jrob78 reply :
I will never buy or use a guide that doesn't have ceramic inserts, including Recoils. I think they look cheap and I've seen too many with grooves. I use micro guides to save weight, a size 5 will pass any leader knot you can tie.
As for the blank, that's just disgusting.
Grantman83 reply :
Ouch. That's crazy to see
georgeyew reply :
I wonder if the other Abu rods are glued together like that.
flyfisher reply :
The proof is in the pictures but it sure seems like a weird location on the guide to cause a groove.
Montanaro reply :
How would the owner not realize his guides were destroyed and murdering his line? Wow
Delaware Valley Tackle reply :
I'll use minima4 double waged guides on a light rod and have yet to repair one of them but always use ringed tops
Alonerankin2 reply :
On 10/1/2014 at 10:24 AM, Delaware Valley Tackle said:I'll use minima4 double waged guides on a light rod and have yet to repair one of them but always use ringed tops
I like minimas too, should I replace the tip with a sic or similar material? Haven't had a problem but just wondering if it may avoid a future problem.
S Hovanec reply :
On 10/1/2014 at 10:13 AM, flyfisher said:The proof is in the pictures but it sure seems like a weird location on the guide to cause a groove.
The damage is 360° around the tip. Probably from tip down, tip up and left and right reeling.
S Hovanec reply :
On 10/1/2014 at 10:21 AM, Montanaro said:How would the owner not realize his guides were destroyed and murdering his line? Wow
My guess is really heavy braid. I bet it is really fuzzy and frayed, judging from the extent of the damage.
Jason Penn reply :
i was pretty sure the abu rods were assembled in this fashion but really had no proof. i think a lot of the rods nowdays are though.
Lucky Craft Man reply :
If you tear apart my NRX and find it spliced like that, let me know as I will be returning it promptly.
Sam reply :
Please share your photos with and tell Abu what happened.
This is no good and it could really damage Abu's reputation and kill sales.
Ask Abu for a replacement guides.
I would also like to suggest replacing all Abu guides on that rod with other ones that perform as expected.
Dypsis reply :
I'd be interested on how this plays out (from Abu's end) please keep us posted.
smalljaw67 reply :
I saw a guide like that once and it wasn't from braid, it was from wire line and it was a friend of mine who got an entire spoon plug system. He got everything, a line counter reel, wire line, I mean everything except a rod, he had a rod that was used to troll for walleye and that is what he used for spoon plugging. He never noticed the guide until he went for walleye with another friend and they were rolling lead core, it didn't take but one strike for the line to break and that is when he noticed the guide. Other than that I never saw one as severe from any kind of line. In fact it looks as if some took a file to it and tried to smooth or cut the insert out, that guide would have been cutting line way before it got to that point and the 2 piece deal isn't cool either, I'd be mad at Abu Garcia.
Delaware Valley Tackle reply :
The two piece blank is what I find most disturbing. The guides at least are plainly visible so you can factor them into a purchase decision.
Capt.Bob reply :
On 10/1/2014 at 9:25 AM, Jrob78 said:I will never buy or use a guide that doesn't have ceramic inserts, including Recoils. I think they look cheap and I've seen too many with grooves. I use micro guides to save weight, a size 5 will pass any leader knot you can tie.
As for the blank, that's just disgusting.
I have yet to feel any rod built with anything other than recoil guides to offer more sensitivity, more weight savings, or more durability!! They allow for the same blank to be "lighter weight, more sensitive, faster, and quicker than with any other guide.
I have 3 rods now with Recoils, all are custom, 2 St. Croix Extreme casting rods, and one Elite spinning rod, I can't believe anyone would ever use Recoils and not want a Sic or similar tip when using these indestructible guides. The 6'10" MXF casting rod get's big time use, with thin 20# 832 braid and is as new, the Elite MLF gets a lot of use but have only had it this season, River fishing for Walleye and it catches Cats Carp and other fish up to 15# is a ball and stressed to the max with 10# 832 are unbelievably sensitive, and a huge part of the sensitivity is from the use of the Recoil guides, and the amazing light weight of these guides is ridiculous. These guides have made these rods the absolute most durable and light sensitive rods I have ever owned, and why right now I have a 6' LF being built and yes, they are the same guides being used on this rod.
One should not be confused with the extreme high quality of the Recoil Guides, and those being offered to imitate them, "or" these cheap soft guides being used by Abu, Berkley and others, the Recoils are quite expensive and lifetime guaranteed, I assure all these others aren't!!!!
Catch and Grease reply :
I'm Probably in the minority but am I the only one that doesn't really like threads like these...don't really know why, I just think there are better places to put negative reviews on products... kinda silly I geuss...
BrianinMD reply :
Negative reviews are a fact of life and forums without them are useless. The only thing is to handle them properly which this OP does, at least in my opinion. It is not a post to bash the vendor but provide information to the users of this site which is the intended purpose.
It is rather disturbing to see the two piece blank, but surprising to say the least to see the grooving in the guides. With advances in materials it should not be difficult to use materials where this does not occur. Very interested in hearing what customer support says about it.
Schaefer reply :
On 10/1/2014 at 9:05 PM, Catch and Grease said:I'm Probably in the minority but am I the only one that doesn't really like threads like these...don't really know why, I just think there are better places to put negative reviews on products... kinda silly I geuss...
I wouldn't call this a negative thread, this is actually very eye opening information. Im sure 99% of the people on here had no idea these were 2-piece glued rods, after seeing this I will never buy an Abu rod.
Catch and Grease reply :
On 10/1/2014 at 9:11 PM, Schaefer said:I wouldn't call this a negative thread, this is actually very eye opening information. Im sure 99% of the people on here had no idea these were 2-piece glued rods, after seeing this I will never buy an Abu rod.
That what I'm saying, like Abu is a great company. Ive used many Abu products without problems and I think they are great, but threads like these scare people away from great companies... sure this single product they make might be bad but that doesn't mean they don't make good products.
EDIT: Not saying negative reviews are bad, I just don't like seeing them on bass resource... Dunno lol
new2BC4bass reply :
On 10/1/2014 at 7:56 PM, smalljaw67 said:I saw a guide like that once and it wasn't from braid, it was from wire line and it was a friend of mine who got an entire spoon plug system. He got everything, a line counter reel, wire line, I mean everything except a rod, he had a rod that was used to troll for walleye and that is what he used for spoon plugging. He never noticed the guide until he went for walleye with another friend and they were rolling lead core, it didn't take but one strike for the line to break and that is when he noticed the guide. Other than that I never saw one as severe from any kind of line. In fact it looks as if some took a file to it and tried to smooth or cut the insert out, that guide would have been cutting line way before it got to that point and the 2 piece deal isn't cool either, I'd be mad at Abu Garcia.
I have to agree with you that any line (whether it be mono, fluro, hybrid, copoly, braid) used with a tip like that shouldn't last for more than a few casts. Hard to believe all that damage was done by braid before noticing something was wrong.
I missed the 3rd guide from the tip when stringing 12# mono. Within 15 minutes of continuous casting the first 4 feet of line was rougher than a cob and had worn a spiral groove in the rod's finish. I'll be the first to admit I am not a very observant kind of guy.
Delaware Valley Tackle reply :
The idea of a handle spliced to a blank isn't horrible. I've done it to achieve lengths and powers not readily available. The problem is the poor way it was done causing it to come apart. This could easily fall under "what you don't know won't hurt ya". If we hadn't seen this one example users of these rods would continue to recommend them. They still may.
Capt.Bob reply :
would you rather see those raving about this rod and suggesting it to others who know no more than those that think they have a quality rod go out and buy one also????? Be real, people need to see this to use better judgement when buying equipment, and although abu make quality items, they need to be called when they try and compete with junk playing the eye appeal game,,,,, I don't like the St. Croix imports nbecause they are not the quality of the USA built rods, but don't go to these cut corner components.....PERIOD! But for abu to offer this as quality rods is something they need to be called out on!!! 
BrianinMD reply :
The part about the blank which bothers me the most is the rods are advertised as a one piece. To see a rod advertised as a one piece when it is not to me is false advertisement. I am sure there is some loophole or such that allows this and they are not breaking the law but as a potential customer this raises questions to me.
Maxximus Redneckus reply :
Its bonded so it isnt truley a 2 piece bein sold as.looks like someone on the assembly line broke a rod and since had the means to fix it did it.
J Francho reply :
On 10/1/2014 at 9:05 PM, Catch and Grease said:I'm Probably in the minority but am I the only one that doesn't really like threads like these...don't really know why, I just think there are better places to put negative reviews on products... kinda silly I geuss...
It's not a negative review, nor a review at all - that's a subjective document. This is a fact. The blank is two pieces glued together that came apart, and the tip top is badly grooved. The rest is left to inference. Maybe Scott can get back to us about what line and conditions the rod was used to result in that grooving. I will say this, that's a pricey rod. I've also noticed that some rods that are pricey aren't quite as sensitive as others of the same ilk. I wonder if the two piece construction is the cause? It's not completely relevant, since most rods over $50 have been sensitive enough for me. Some are just more so - remarkably more so.
S Hovanec reply :
65# Powerpro. This is his frog rod. Makes sense....lots of dirt to get deposited in the pores of the braid.
J Francho reply :
Yep, does make sense. I've seen grooved Recoils from that as well.
S Hovanec reply :
I find all kinds of interesting stuff working on rods. Put split EVA grips on a bunch of Kistlers for a guy this spring. When stripping the cork, I could see the remants of a blank label. On one rod, the cork came off clean enough to make out that it was a Rainshadow blank. I've heard rumors they were built on all kinds of different blanks, but I confirmed one of them.
J Francho reply :
I once found a french fry inside a round reel, lol.
.ghoti. reply :
That is an eye opener. I've replaced a lot of tip-tips over the years, but I've never seen one in as bad of condition as that one. It should have been replaced a long time ago. Hard to believe it got to that sorry state without the owner noticing.
As far the spliced handle section goes, custom builders have been doing exactly that for years. It's a way to get a blank for a specific application when none exists. This just a very poorly executed example. To simply assume that no other manufacturer would ever do such a thing is to do just that; simply assume.
.ghoti. reply :
On 10/2/2014 at 1:28 AM, J Francho said:I once found a french fry inside a round reel, lol.
I always liked hot sauce on french fries.
FishTank reply :
Wow. Looks like some heavy braid destroyed those guides but the two piece construction has me stumped. Why would a rod manufacture make a rod this way?
J Francho reply :
On 10/2/2014 at 1:38 AM, .ghoti. said:I always liked hot sauce on french fries.
It was actually a Quantum, lol.
S Hovanec reply :
On 10/2/2014 at 1:55 AM, FishTank said:Why would a rod manufacture make a rod this way?
So they can just add a different tip section to achieve a different model.
Michael F reply :
On 10/2/2014 at 1:28 AM, J Francho said:I once found a french fry inside a round reel, lol.
HAHAHA Are you serious?
Michael F reply :
Im pretty shocked to see it those guides like that...
Even more surprised to see the blank like that...
J Francho reply :
On 10/2/2014 at 4:00 AM, Michael F said:HAHAHA Are you serious?
Yep. The owner had no idea how it got there. It was a crinkle cut, IIRC.
aavery2 reply :
On 10/1/2014 at 9:25 AM, Jrob78 said:I will never buy or use a guide that doesn't have ceramic inserts, including Recoils. I think they look cheap and I've seen too many with grooves. I use micro guides to save weight, a size 5 will pass any leader knot you can tie.
As for the blank, that's just disgusting.
Here is something you might find interesting. This is a copy of a reply from St. Croix Guys.
I sent an email out to St. Croix following the discussion we had last week regarding the REC “Recoil” guides being used on some of the high end rods like the Legend Extreme. One of the things I like about St. Croix is that they’ll take the time to respond to questions. And this time was no different.
I won’t post the entire response but here’s the stuff that counts…
“We have used these guides for 4 years. I have not seen 1 guide with any grooving or wear from braid.”
Zero warranty claims on grooved REC guides in 4 years. NADA.
He goes on to state that if anyone has a grooved St. Croix guide… he wants to see it. Beyond a few second hand rumor type statements of “I heard from this guy that bought one and his guides grooved from using braid” they’re not seeing anything of the kind in the warranty repair department or have heard about it from actual St. Croix owners at the customer service call desk.
If you have a grooved set of guides… bring it to a sports show or contact St. Croix directly. In their durability tests that have been ongoing for years they have been unable to damage the titanium guides with braided line. Period. In fact, after heavy use the titanium guides “polish” and get smoother… leading to longer casts and even better performance. But certainly NOT grooves.
So, that’s the scoop on that. The grooved Recoil guides claims don’t hold water.
I thought it was interesting, I have two rods with recoil guides, an NRX and a Legend Extreme, neither has had any issues to date. I have seen lots of pictures of damaged guides but have never been able to get my hands on one to look at them very close. Have you been able to get your hands on any damaged guides?
Montanaro reply :
I have recoils on my ***...no issues and I love them.
Jrob78 reply :
On 10/2/2014 at 5:27 AM, aavery2 said:Here is something you might find interesting. This is a copy of a reply from St. Croix Guys.
On 10/1/2014 at 9:01 PM, Capt.Bob said:I have yet to feel any rod built with anything other than recoil guides to offer more sensitivity, more weight savings, or more durability!! They allow for the same blank to be "lighter weight, more sensitive, faster, and quicker than with any other guide.
My only experience with grooved Recoils is from pictures online on the rod building sites, I've never seen one in person. If St. Croix says they've never had a grooved Recoil guide on any of their rods, that works for me. If you guys like Recoils and have had good experiences with them, that's all that really matters. Clearly the guides used in the op are very low quality and I shouldn't have grouped all metal guides together. I know Recoils aren't the same as cheap stainless steel guides.
I'm just personally not a fan of non ceramic guides and feel that there are better options for the money. The cost of Recoils is very comparable to titanium sic Fuji guides. To me, they aren't even in the same class. That's just my personal opinion though, not to be confused with fact. 
S Hovanec reply :
Croix and Loomis haven't had any grooving issues because they're using SiC tips. If they used the Recoil tips, i bet they would also groove.
As for the running guides grooving, I feel this is caused by the guide getting nicked by a harder material. It then creates a place for the line to catch, thus making it run in the same spot over and over.
timsford reply :
On 10/1/2014 at 9:05 PM, Catch and Grease said:I'm Probably in the minority but am I the only one that doesn't really like threads like these...don't really know why, I just think there are better places to put negative reviews on products... kinda silly I geuss...
Forums like bass resource are about the only source of good information on products out there. I dont care for brand bashing by people with no experience even using the things they ate bashing, or people who say this reel or rod is great or it sucks when they only held it in a store and never used it. But this thread is just trying to inform other fisherman FACTS about a rod. I personally have no problem with that. Where is the better place to inform people of something about a particular product. Personally ive never held an abu rod i liked. Thats my opinion though and if you love abu you are entitled to that. I am not loyal to any certain brand and i think people who are miss out on tons of great products. I own reels made by daiwa, lews, shimano, pinnacle, mitchell, and quantum. Rods by ***, daiwa, shimano, pinnacle, shakespeare, fenwick, and an okuma on the way. But if i saw pictures of any of those rods that looked like the one in this thread id never buy another. Thats my opinion too and while everyone on here is entitled to one, i dont think blind happiness is a good thing and that we should all try to inform others on here of good and bad in products. Not bashing you catch and grease so please dont take it that way
Jason Penn reply :
On 10/1/2014 at 7:35 PM, Lucky Craft Man said:If you tear apart my NRX and find it spliced like that, let me know as I will be returning it promptly.
sorry for clarification, i was speaking about imported rods. i think most of them are built with 1 line doing sub-assembly on the handle section while the guides are being wrapped on another, then they just combine them to finish the rods
Master Bait'r reply :
On 10/2/2014 at 5:27 AM, aavery2 said:Here is something you might find interesting. This is a copy of a reply from St. Croix Guys.
I sent an email out to St. Croix following the discussion we had last week regarding the REC “Recoil” guides being used on some of the high end rods like the Legend Extreme. One of the things I like about St. Croix is that they’ll take the time to respond to questions. And this time was no different.
I won’t post the entire response but here’s the stuff that counts…
“We have used these guides for 4 years. I have not seen 1 guide with any grooving or wear from braid.”
Zero warranty claims on grooved REC guides in 4 years. NADA.
He goes on to state that if anyone has a grooved St. Croix guide… he wants to see it. Beyond a few second hand rumor type statements of “I heard from this guy that bought one and his guides grooved from using braid” they’re not seeing anything of the kind in the warranty repair department or have heard about it from actual St. Croix owners at the customer service call desk.
If you have a grooved set of guides… bring it to a sports show or contact St. Croix directly. In their durability tests that have been ongoing for years they have been unable to damage the titanium guides with braided line. Period. In fact, after heavy use the titanium guides “polish” and get smoother… leading to longer casts and even better performance. But certainly NOT grooves.
So, that’s the scoop on that. The grooved Recoil guides claims don’t hold water.
I thought it was interesting, I have two rods with recoil guides, an NRX and a Legend Extreme, neither has had any issues to date. I have seen lots of pictures of damaged guides but have never been able to get my hands on one to look at them very close. Have you been able to get your hands on any damaged guides?
Thanks for that. As a metal guy, Titanium really is a fascinating material. I also LOVE recoils- I have an NRX and an *** Black with recoils and I have to say they are by far my favorite and I seek them out in a rod now. Nothing is as light and sensitive! Good to know they really are as durable as they seem like they would be. I was a little concerned about that given the old warnings about grooving but it makes total sense that Ti is simply too hard of a metal to be truly effected by braid.
Delaware Valley Tackle reply :
Keep in mind that it's likely that the contamination (sand, grit etc) on the braid is what's doing the damage not the braid itself. There are also levels of SS hardness too. Assuming that all imported rods are sub standard is a stretch. I'm all for US made products, but the sad reality is that there aren't many anymore.
ClackerBuzz reply :
On 10/2/2014 at 8:34 PM, Delaware Valley Tackle said:Keep in mind that it's likely that the contamination (sand, grit etc) on the braid is what's doing the damage not the braid itself. There are also levels of SS hardness too. Assuming that all imported rods are sub standard is a stretch. I'm all for US made products, but the sad reality is that there aren't many anymore.
I wonder what his reels look like 
Master Bait'r reply :
On 10/2/2014 at 11:01 PM, ClackerBuzz said:I wonder what his reels look like
*sound like 
GoDeep reply :
People don't wanna be informed of inferior or low quality products? OK sheeple....smh
Josh Smith reply :
Well, I'll tell ya'...
All blanks used to be spliced to the handles. That's the way they were built. In fact, I have a couple laying around here.
Further in fact, when I get the money up, I have a couple old Abu Garcia handles that are not blank-through that DVT will be building into complete rods for me.
There's nothing wrong with spliced handles. There might be slightly less sensitivity in the type I'm talking about, but in the Abu Garcia up there, I don't know.
My old Daiwa Bill Dance rod that the modified '60s 5000 sets on has metal guides. I never gave it much thought beyond that I thought it was cool to feel the line come up the guides.
The guides are in excellent shape and I've had that rod since around 1994. It was my only MH rod for the longest time and only one of two rods I actively used (the other being an ultralight), so you might guess how much work it's done.
The Cherrywood HD that I bought not too long ago is too new to be judged yet beyond my feeling not-quite-right that I really like a rod that's as inexpensive as it was. Friggin' $20 rod feels better to me than a couple $100 rods I have laying around. Something's wrong there!
The BPS 5'6" MH rod also has stainless guides. From what I can tell, it's going to work just fine. I might end up wrong, but I don't think so.
I'm not defending Abu Garcia. I love their old stuff and their Made In Sweden reels. I hate all long-handled modern rods equally so I have no special love for that one that seems to have failed.
I'm only relating that I've seen no issues wit all-metal guides.
Josh
Alonerankin2 reply :
Yea, I equally hate pistol grip rods.. I know how you feel, the older Abu round reels were built like a tank, I seen more than a few veritas rods broke at the handle,I thought it was peculiar, and it never crossed my mind they were spliced, makes perfect sense now.
Jrob78 reply :
On 10/3/2014 at 9:37 AM, Josh Smith said:I'm only relating that I've seen no issues wit all-metal guides.
Josh
Have you used braid extensively with any of your rods with metal guides?
Josh Smith reply :
On 10/3/2014 at 10:52 AM, Jrob78 said:Have you used braid extensively with any of your rods with metal guides?
Yes. That's all any of them have seen except for the older Daiwa.
Keep in mind that I only started fishing again seriously in early 2013, so the Daiwa has seen about two years of braid. Prior, it was mono as braid in the '90s ran about $50.
I would be more concerned with fluorocarbon. It's pretty hard stuff.
Josh
Jrob78 reply :
On 10/3/2014 at 11:14 AM, Josh Smith said:Yes. That's all any of them have seen.
Keep in mind that I only started fishing again seriously in early 2013, so the Daiwa has seen about two years of braid. Prior, it was mono as braid in the '90s ran about $50.
I would be more concerned with fluorocarbon. It's pretty hard stuff.
Josh
I have an original Carrot Stix with metal guides that has seen braid exclusively. It doesn't show any grooving at all, after 8 or 10 years of use. I don't know why some groove like the OP's rod and some don't. Or more importantly, how to tell the difference between the one's that will and the one's that won't.
Fluorocarbon is very hard but it's not harder than stainless steel. Braid is much more apt to pick up debris and carry it through your guides. I'm sure it has to do with the water you fish and maybe even the braid you use.
S Hovanec reply :
Just to show that this isn't just an isolated incident, here is a ML Fenwick that came in last week. I had previously replaced the tip a few years ago on this rod due to grooving. Now the stripper and a running guide are grooved. Probably one other was too, but it was missing, which is why it was in for repair.
Running guide. There are 8 grooves on this one, only 5 are visible in the pic.
Stripper. Only 4 grooves here.
The line isn't harder than the guide, but the sediment it picks up is. Braid isn't the only culprit. I've had tip grooves from floro come in too.
S Hovanec reply :
and on a tangent, here's that Kistler I mentioned a couple pages ago.
J Francho reply :
Was that their old "graphite" line from years ago? I had five of them.
TrippyJai reply :
I had a Fenwick Elite Tech Crankshaft that grooved with Big Game mono. According to the Tackletour review, it uses Pac Bay DPL frames with SiC guide inserts. I wish I had taken a few pictures before returning the rod. If I recall, the grooves were due to me trying to free a snag.
S Hovanec reply :
I've never seen a ceramic insert groove. I've see bunches crack and pieces fall out. I've seen guides with the plastic shock rings loose the ceramic insert and people not know, thus grooving the plastic ring.
J Francho reply :
I chipped the top ring on my old frog rod, an Avid AVC70HF, and there was some grooving. I actually didn't realize it, and had a REALLY bad impression of Berkley Tracer braid. Lol, turns out it was my rod!
Capt.Bob reply :
On 10/2/2014 at 1:13 AM, J Francho said:Yep, does make sense. I've seen grooved Recoils from that as well.
Sounds like you see more rods than the biggest manufacturers,,, or are listning to what someone shows you in a picyure. I have seen grooved recoils once,,,the guy admitted to using wire, trolling and fishing for salmon,,,,
On 10/2/2014 at 8:23 AM, S Hovanec said:Croix and Loomis haven't had any grooving issues because they're using SiC tips. If they used the Recoil tips, i bet they would also groove.
As for the running guides grooving, I feel this is caused by the guide getting nicked by a harder material. It then creates a place for the line to catch, thus making it run in the same spot over and over.
Yes I always have mine built with a sic tip top. But when your fishing a ML in a river sytem in muddy water landing carp and cat's to 12-15 pounds with a few 6-7 pound sheep head thrown in the tip isn't getting more pressure than some of the other guides when it's bent in 2 with 10# braid cutting thru everything. Never had a problem with any. remember owners hardly ever tell the facts when their misuse ruins something. That 1`0# braid is like a saw blade also.
On 10/2/2014 at 8:34 PM, Delaware Valley Tackle said:Keep in mind that it's likely that the contamination (sand, grit etc) on the braid is what's doing the damage not the braid itself. There are also levels of SS hardness too. Assuming that all imported rods are sub standard is a stretch. I'm all for US made products, but the sad reality is that there aren't many anymore.
In all honesty those guides would never be on anything I would use,,,period! And the handle is no excuse, bad quality also, sadly your right aint many US owned or built, but no excuse for spending good money on sorry quality when we Have St. Croix, and other than the handle, even the recoils and blanks are made right here, and fully built here!
On 10/2/2014 at 5:27 AM, aavery2 said:Here is something you might find interesting. This is a copy of a reply from St. Croix Guys.
I sent an email out to St. Croix following the discussion we had last week regarding the REC “Recoil” guides being used on some of the high end rods like the Legend Extreme. One of the things I like about St. Croix is that they’ll take the time to respond to questions. And this time was no different.
I won’t post the entire response but here’s the stuff that counts…
“We have used these guides for 4 years. I have not seen 1 guide with any grooving or wear from braid.”
Zero warranty claims on grooved REC guides in 4 years. NADA.
He goes on to state that if anyone has a grooved St. Croix guide… he wants to see it. Beyond a few second hand rumor type statements of “I heard from this guy that bought one and his guides grooved from using braid” they’re not seeing anything of the kind in the warranty repair department or have heard about it from actual St. Croix owners at the customer service call desk.
If you have a grooved set of guides… bring it to a sports show or contact St. Croix directly. In their durability tests that have been ongoing for years they have been unable to damage the titanium guides with braided line. Period. In fact, after heavy use the titanium guides “polish” and get smoother… leading to longer casts and even better performance. But certainly NOT grooves.
So, that’s the scoop on that. The grooved Recoil guides claims don’t hold water.
I thought it was interesting, I have two rods with recoil guides, an NRX and a Legend Extreme, neither has had any issues to date. I have seen lots of pictures of damaged guides but have never been able to get my hands on one to look at them very close. Have you been able to get your hands on any damaged guides?
I was told the same thing, and by custom builders also. I know one custom builder that said he had one rod trashed early in the release of the recoils, and that was the guy running wire line, I assure sic or any material won't take that for ever. He also did say it was the only one out of many he has herd of anything but stellar results with using the Recoils. I imagine that's why when I started having my rod's built with recoils they let me know it was bull, and if I ever had there guide fail they would replace it for life!! He also said if I ever wanted to build another rod if something happened to mine, reuse em and still lifetime warranty,,,,try that wuith a sic or any other imported guide?????
J Francho reply :
Quote
or are listning to what someone shows you in a picyure
No different than you quoting something from the internet.
ww2farmer reply :
Well, seems like the general concensus is that Abu rods suck. Send them to me for proper disposal.
Capt.Bob reply :
On 10/4/2014 at 3:48 AM, J Francho said:No different than you quoting something from the internet.
Sorry I'll put it this way, show me just one you ruined, I have 4 rods with em now and looks like I'll never get to use the lifetime guarantee on em, I am just saying the only flawed ring I have ever heard about was exactly that, herd about, like you I have never seen one in reel life. I have seen this kind of stuff from abu before, when it comes to their rods. Sorry, didn't mean to flame anyone!!
J Francho reply :
Not sure why I have to prove that I've seen it on recoil tips? I don't have a picture, but it was on a 13' GLX float rod. Braid mainline in a silty river environment.
smalljaw67 reply :
I have an old Cabelas XMLTi, it has all recoil guides with a ceramic tip top, this has been used with all kinds of line including braid and no problems with the guides at all. I have a G.Loomis GL3 that has the standard aluminum oxide rings and it too is fine, what I'm getting at is I only had a ceramic guide fail once and it popped out after it cracked but no grooves. I got a Daiwa Procyon spinning rod with Pacific Bay black ring Minima guides on it for a present 2 years ago, so far I've only used mon but the rod had several run in with muskies, 2 of them landed, 1 was 16lbs and 1 was 23lbs not too mention all the bass and other fish caught on it and no grooving. I know, 2 years isn't that long but my point is that when I hear these stories and see the pictures, the person usually states the rod is less than or only a year old or something to that effect, I don't doubt they can groove but I have quite a few Fenwicks with Zirconia rings that are fine, a few Aetos rods with the titanium inserts that still look knew even when used with braid for throwing frogs in slop, no trouble. I don't think manufactures are going to put lifetime warranties on rods that have guides that will fail after 1 season, I just don't see that being a big issue. BTW, I check my guide before the first trip out after winter, then I check them half way through, this year was the end of August and then when the water freezes over and I'm done for the winter I'll clean my rods and inspect the guides with a 10X loop and also clean the guides with a Q-Tip, if I miss something with the loop the cotton on the Q-Tip will surely grab any crack or groove and alert me to an issue.
bass raider reply :
sorry if i'm hi jacking the thread but are the guides used on the abu rod on the 1st.page the same type of guides fenwick uses on their hmg series? all it says on their site is "deep pressed titanium guides eliminate insert pop out & are virtually bulletproof"
thanks
S Hovanec reply :
On 10/5/2014 at 9:44 AM, bass raider said:sorry if i'm hi jacking the thread but are the guides used on the abu rod on the 1st.page the same type of guides fenwick uses on their hmg series? all it says on their site is "deep pressed titanium guides eliminate insert pop out & are virtually bulletproof"
thanks
Really can't say from their description. It doesn't say if the rings are SS or ceramic. The guides on the Abu are Ti frames with SS rings.
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