Rod Experts Every Rod Is Different 2024
bigbill reply :
I have four rods that aren't cheap.($50/$99) the rods are marked med action. The rod from the handle up about 65% feels a med action backbone. The upper section is weak. I'd be afraid to trust a big bass on it. Each rod tip is weak. The heavier action rod is stiffer in the upper section.
Now I purchased another brand ($79) another med rod has chee (Even flow to the tip) the tip feels stronger.
There's no standards for actions vs taper. The rod blank lacks flow to the tip.
Jrob78 reply :
Bill, you need to learn what action and power mean, it will help you make sense of how your rods are labeled and what they really are. What you have written doesn't make sense when you don't use the terminology correctly.
rippin-lips reply :
http://www.bassresource.com/fishing/rod-actions-power.html
http://www.bassfishingandcatching.com/fishing-rod-action.html
Power = heavy - medium heavy - medium - ect
Action = extra fast - fast - medium fast - ect
Taper = thickness of the rod and thickness of the wall of the blank. Action and taper are usually considered as one in the same.
Molay1292 reply :
BB, along with what Jrob78 posted is that manufacturers use different materials, carbon fiber, scrim materials, resin compounds to build their rods, this makes it nearly impossible to develop and industry standard, about the best you can hope for is that rods built by the same manufacturer are consistant.
JeziHogg reply :
Ow, my brain.
WPCfishing reply :
Has it ever occurred to you; meaning everyone, our rods are not graphite.
They are carbon fiber... or a blend of weaved materials.
Graphite is what we refer to as the lead in a pencil.
As for the OP.. Quit smoking that crap.
tomustang reply :
It's completely different world jumping from an Angler to an Enthusiast.
Catt reply :
Carbon Fiber = Graphite Fiber
poisonokie reply :
They are indeed carbon fiber, which is stiff by nature, so variables in fiber density, wall thickness, mandrel shape, etc, equate to different powers and actions. I see what Bill's getting at, though. I think there should be a third rod spec. Power is obvious, as well as taper, but I think action is more subtle and varies from rod line to rod line. For instance, you can have a heavy powered rod with a fast taper, meaning that the tip bends about a quarter of the way down before giving way to the backbone. However H/F tells you nothing about the stiffness of the tip. It may have a tip that is supple and loads easily or it may have one that is stiff and takes more torque to load. I think that should be considered the action of the rod. So a heavy power with a fast tip that loads easily should be a H/F/soft or something to that effect.
rippin-lips reply :
Graphite fiber, or carbon graphite is carbon fiber. They're still marketed as graphite rods. That can lead us into the next topic to make this more confusing. One companies IM8 graphite can differ from another companies IM8 graphite. Yes, crazy I know.
Example - The older Shimano Crucial was described as being made of IM10 graphite.
Luckily I've found a few companies that make rods that do what I want them to despite what it might be made of, or labeled as.
Catt reply :
Carbon is a non-metallic, tetravalent element that is found in nature as graphite!
Mike L reply :
All interesting to know and good reading on a slow day, but to me it really doesn't matter what it's made of.
I worry more about how it feels and fishes for what I tie on..
I know what I like, and what would be more advantageous for what I want to throw at any given time.
If looking for a cranking rod I know I want a glass or composite, all else is Graphite.
All I need to know.
Mike
bassinhole reply :
On 10/4/2015 at 9:05 PM, Mike L said:All interesting to know and good reading on a slow day, but to me it really doesn't matter what it's made of.
I worry more about how it feels and fishes for what I tie on..
I know what I like, and what would be more advantageous for what I want to throw at any given time.
If looking for a cranking rod I know I want a glass or composite, all else is Graphite.
All I need to know.
Mike
Mike, that's all well and good until you go to order something online you have not had your hands on before. When facing that situation it pays to know the terminology and order what you need/want the first time!
K_Mac reply :
On 10/4/2015 at 10:26 AM, Jrob78 said:Bill, you need to learn what action and power mean, it will help you make sense of how your rods are labeled and what they really are. What you have written doesn't make sense when you don't use the terminology correctly.
I almost posted something like this, only less helpful and more snarky. Thanks for saying this in a less judgemental way. Bill while there is no industry standard, there is consistency among some of the better manufacturers, especially within model lines.
Graphite is bonded in a way that makes it a good material for pencils or lubricant, but not fishing rods. Carbon fiber is graphite bonded in longer strands that make it useful for many more applications. Google is a very useful resource...
Mike L reply :
On 10/4/2015 at 9:17 PM, bassinhole said:Mike, that's all well and good until you go to order something online you have not had your hands on before. When facing that situation it pays to know the terminology and order what you need/want the first time!
You're exactly right.
I didn't think of it that way.
My intent was to help not to over complicate the buying decision.
Mike
WPCfishing reply :
On 10/4/2015 at 11:43 AM, rippin-lips said:Graphite fiber, or carbon graphite is carbon fiber. They're still marketed as graphite rods. That can lead us into the next topic to make this more confusing. One companies IM8 graphite can differ from another companies IM8 graphite. Yes, crazy I know.
Example - The older Shimano Crucial was described as being made of IM10 graphite.
Luckily I've found a few companies that make rods that do what I want them to despite what it might be made of, or labeled as.
Which companies?
Catt reply :
On 10/4/2015 at 9:34 PM, K_Mac said:Graphite is bonded in a way that makes it a good material for pencils or lubricant, but not fishing rods. Carbon fiber is graphite bonded in longer strands that make it useful for many more applications. Google is a very useful resource...
Graphite fiber is a step higher than carbon fiber!
Google is fine if you know what to Google!
http://mosesgraphite.com/technical-info/about-carbon-fiber/
roadwarrior reply :
On 10/4/2015 at 10:26 AM, Jrob78 said:Bill, you need to learn what action and power mean, it will help you make sense of how your rods are labeled and what they really are. What you have written doesn't make sense when you don't use the terminology correctly.
This should help: http://www.bassresource.com/bass-fishing-forums/topic/35514-rods-power-and-action-%C2%A0defined/
K_Mac reply :
On 10/4/2015 at 11:25 PM, Catt said:Graphite fiber is a step higher than carbon fiber!
Google is fine if you know what to Google!
http://mosesgraphite.com/technical-info/about-carbon-fiber/
Catt if you do a comprehensive search, you will find that in spite of marketing claims and various terms and descriptions, my post is accurate. Graphite fiber and carbon fiber are one and the same. It is graphite bonded it longer strands.
Catt reply :
On 10/5/2015 at 3:04 AM, K_Mac said:Catt if you do a comprehensive search, you will find that in spite of marketing claims and various terms and descriptions, my post is accurate.. Graphite fiber and carbon fiber are one and the same. It is graphite bonded it longer strands.
K_Mac if you actually clicked on the supplied link & read it you you understand out of carbon fiber & graphite fiber, carbon is the weaker of the two.
With 15 yrs as a structural engineer in the areospace industry & working with both I fully understand the strengths & weakness of both.
bigbill reply :
I needed a course in fishing rods for dummies. I never understood all this stuff. The more I look into it, the more I get confused. I find a med rod in one brand is stiffer than a M/H includes l another brand.
We need the fishing police on this one.
Thanks RW and guys for clearing some of this up.
K_Mac reply :
On 10/5/2015 at 3:18 AM, Catt said:K_Mac if you actually clicked on the supplied link & read it you you understand out of carbon fiber & graphite fiber, carbon is the weaker of the two.
With 15 yrs as a structural engineer in the areospace industry & working with both I fully understand the strengths & weakness of both.
Catt I clicked on and read your link, in addition to 14 others. In practical application it is strictly semantics IMO. There does seem to be a distinction in older literature but I can find no real differences in modern manufacturing.
Edit: Catt as I investigate further, it becomes clear that the carbon fiber that begins with graphite can be a higher modulus than that which derives its carbon from other sources. I am not sure any of this is relevant to fishing rods, but it has been an interesting Sunday afternoon project!
Rick Howard reply :
This sounds a lot like golf clubs lol.
K_Mac reply :
On 10/5/2015 at 4:31 AM, Rick Howard said:This sounds a lot like golf clubs lol.
Golf clubs, firearms, bicycles, cars, enthusiasts can argue about the darndest things..
Jrob78 reply :
On 10/5/2015 at 3:18 AM, bigbill said:I needed a course in fishing rods for dummies. I never understood all this stuff. The more I look into it, the more I get confused. I find a med action rod in one brand is stiffer than a M/H action in another brand.
We need the action police on this one.
Thanks RW and guys for clearing some of this up.
If you had read anything "RW and guys" posted to help you, you would know that med and med heavy aren't actions.
bigbill reply :
Ok med and med/hvy
poisonokie reply :
On 10/5/2015 at 5:09 AM, Jrob78 said:If you had read anything "RW and guys" posted to help you, you would know that med and med heavy aren't actions.
Action does get used interchangeably with power, though, and I can see it either way. You'd think a "heavy action" with a fast taper (heavy power/fast action) would have a stiffer tip but with the same bend as a "medium action" with a fast taper, but that's just not always the case. It's just all so subjective.
corn-on-the-rob reply :
I'll try my best.
POWER (descending order)
Xtra-Heavy
Heavy
Medium Heavy
Medium
Medium Lite
Lite
Ultra-Lite
In that order, provided from the same manufacturer, is power. That means strength, particularly of the "backbone". The backbone is usually meant as the portion of the rod where it stops bending when adequately loaded and below (towards the handle). A heavy POWER rod will have a higher backbone strength than a medium POWER rod of the same manufacturer.
ACTION
Xtra-Fast
Fast
Moderate
Slow
Action is basically the amount a rod tip will deflect (bend) before it "reaches" its backbone. Any power rod can theoretically have any action, and visa-versa.
If you took a Medium Power and Heavy Power rod of any action (even dissimilar) and tied unbreakable line to a tree and began to pull back with steady increasing force:
They would both load to their action point, then when stressed too far, will begin to yield (bend where it shouldn't aka well below the action point) and eventually fracture. The major difference is, the LARGER POWER rod will take more force before it yields/fails, theoretically.
If you took a Fast Action and a Moderate Action rod of the SAME POWER and tied unbreakable line to a tree and began to pull back with steady increasing force:
At the very start, the initial pull back, they will bend very similar at the tip, then as force increases, the FASTER action rod will start to resist bending more, hitting its backbone sooner than the MODERATE rod. Since the moderate rod is still absorbing energy while the faster one is already at its backbone, even though you are pulling both with the same force, the tree feels a little less from the one that is still bending. Once both are fully bent to/past their action points, the tree is now feeling the same "pull" from both. Any further pull will be felt the same from the tree, until BOTH rods fail at the same time, because their power will limit their strength, and same power = same fail, THEORETICALLY.
I tried to explain it a little differently and tried to simplify, if anyone has anything else to add or correct me on, feel free!
BassWhole! reply :
On 10/5/2015 at 4:39 AM, K_Mac said:Golf clubs, firearms, bicycles, cars, enthusiasts can argue about the darndest things..
As long as the biggest hacks keep buying the "best" equipment, its all good... Cha Ching.
Jaw1 reply :
BB I get exactly what your talking about even if your terminology is a little off. Keep asking the questions you need answered and ignore the snide remarks that's what this site is about right?
Raul reply :
On 10/5/2015 at 3:18 AM, bigbill said:
I never understood all this stuff. The more I look into it, the more I get confused. I find a med rod in one brand is stiffer than a M/H includes l another brand.
It´s simple to explain, there´s no standard that rod manufacturers have to comply, power and action vary from one manufacturer to another, in all the years I´ve fished and owned certain brands I´ve found that for example St.Croix rods are "stiffer" than GLoomis rods with the same power and action rating, old Berkley LRs, Series one and Bionix that were what I used back in the 80´s and early 90´s are similar to GLoomis rods, actually one of the reasons why I jumped to GLoomis was that they felt pretty much like those rods I used to fish with. I like one particular feel and behavior in the rod that´s why I don´t mix brands and also that´s why I seldomly try something else, so far, from all the other rod manufacturers out there there´s only two besides GLoomis whose rods I like: GraphiteLeader & Shimano, I have purchased form others and end up selling them.
bigbill reply :
When I used the Shakespeare, quantum, eagleclaw and Southend rods I never had this problem. It was either UL, L, MED, etc. No taper, no guessing today it's all different.
I fished with two rod setups for decades. Then I got into different baits which needed different setups, topwater a stiffer rod, stronger line test, crankbaits a tad less stiffness, lighter line test. Jigs stiff rod strongest like test, c-rig less upper stiffness strongest line test with leader. The test of the leader, weight dictates the rate of fall.
Light baits, small spinnerbaits, shorter rod, lighter test.
I couldn't get by with one or two rods.
WIGuide reply :
Bill, take a look at this, it should clear things up.
http://stcroixrods.com/why-st-croix/power-action/
Raul reply :
On 10/6/2015 at 2:09 AM, bigbill said:When I used the Shakespeare, quantum, eagleclaw and Southend rods I never had this problem. It was either UL, L, MED, etc. No taper, no guessing today it's all different.
I fished with two rod setups for decades. Then I got into different baits which needed different setups, topwater a stiffer rod, stronger line test, crankbaits a tad less stiffness, lighter line test. Jigs stiff rod strongest like test, c-rig less upper stiffness strongest line test with leader. The test of the leader, weight dictates the rate of fall.
Light baits, small spinnerbaits, shorter rod, lighter test.
I couldn't get by with one or two rods.
"different baits which needed different setups"-----> Sounds to me that you have been sold the idea that you "need" lure/technique specific gear, for me it´s simple, UL all the way up to XH power and "fast" action is what I use which power depends on conditions and what I´m going to fish, I dare anybody to prove I´m wrong with my approach.
BassWhole! reply :
On 10/6/2015 at 3:55 AM, Raul said:"different baits which needed different setups"-----> Sounds to me that you have been sold the idea that you "need" lure/technique specific gear, for me it´s simple, UL all the way up to XH power and "fast" action is what I use which power depends on conditions and what I´m going to fish, I dare anybody to prove I´m wrong with my approach.
No, you are right, technique specific exists only between the ears of LMB anglers (and rod catalogs of course)...
poisonokie reply :
On 10/6/2015 at 4:01 AM, reason said:No, you are right, technique specific exists only between the ears of LMB anglers (and rod catalogs of course)...
I don't know, I think each rod has one presentation that it's best at, whether it's marketed that way or not. If that's the technique you have the most fun/success using, and it jives with the reel and line you use, then that's the rod you should buy.
For instance, if you like fishing frogs more than anything else, buy a frog rod, not a flipping stick. It will perform both tasks well,as well as c rigs and deep cranks, but will excel with frogs.
Obviously no one rod is going to work for every technique, but will cover a range while being the most effective with the one you had in mind when you bought it.
bigfruits reply :
now that we have power (ul,l,ml,m,mh,h) and action (moderate,fast,extra fast) defined, here is a simple way to look at it.
lets say were not worried about horsing fish out of cover - look at the lure ratings instead of the power. a rod with max lure weight of 3/8 is not going to be ideal for casting 3/4oz spinnerbaits.
if youre buying a rod to throw 3/8oz jigs (trailer weight is significant!) and 1/2oz spinnerbaits, you probably want most manufacturer's MH which typically has a max lure weight of 5/8-3/4oz. aim for the middle (or a little higher) of the rod's lure weight range.
the only thing you need to know about action is that moderate is ideal for cranks and not much else, fast is the best all around action, and extra fast is best suited for jigs and plastics, some hardbaits. some jig and plastics fishermen prefer fast actions.
when you find a rod online that youre thinking of pulling the trigger on, post the make and model on here and someone will probably chime in. tell them what you want to use it for. they can tell you if it has a soft tip or not which you cannot tell from the action and power ratings. they can tell you if its a fast that fishes like an extra fast, etc. the only way to know without handling it.
Choporoz reply :
On 10/4/2015 at 10:36 AM, Molay1292 said:BB, along with what Jrob78 posted is that manufacturers use different materials, carbon fiber, scrim materials, resin compounds to build their rods, this makes it nearly impossible to develop and industry standard, about the best you can hope for is that rods built by the same manufacturer are consistant.
I'm struggling with this point....
Materials aside, the terms power and action, as used by most who have contributed here, apply to flex, arc, physical shape, response to force, etc. All of which should be measurable regardless of material. I'm no mathematician or engineer, but I'm 99% certain that a standard for the commonly accepted terms of 'power' and 'action' could be developed.....IF the 'industry' wanted to.
poisonokie reply :
Yeah, but each rod maker has a certain idea about what those ratings should represent, so standardizing it across the industry might serve to alienate their customer base. That's part of what sets a brand apart from others. Daiwa guys don't want a rod that feels like a Loomis and vise versa. Different materials and production processes will yield rods with different characteristics even if the rod taper remains the same. Tackle Tour's RoD wrack is a great representation of that.
Molay1292 reply :
On 10/6/2015 at 9:21 PM, Choporoz said:I'm struggling with this point....
Materials aside, the terms power and action, as used by most who have contributed here, apply to flex, arc, physical shape, response to force, etc. All of which should be measurable regardless of material. I'm no mathematician or engineer, but I'm 99% certain that a standard for the commonly accepted terms of 'power' and 'action' could be developed.....IF the 'industry' wanted to.
I don't disagree with what you have said. I will add this, do you think it would be better to have the industry comply with a rigid set of standards that may eliminate some of the individualism and creativeness, or, develop a new method of rating rods that would better describe how each rod performs to a given set of standards.
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