Have rods reached a plateau in technology for quite some time? 2024
tcbass reply :
Rods have come a long way. However, besides technology that could make rods a little stiffer, better action, more durable, sensitive, or other will there be any drastic improvements in technology in the future? Perhaps nanotechnology could make rods super light weight or something but not sure.
Have rods reached a plateau in technology?
Fishinthefish reply :
Im absolutely certain line, rods and reels for that matter will be drastically different in 20 years. Im not entirely sure what technology will be in play or how itll work out but my current example is in Febuary we are getting our first well reviewed mass produced reel without ball berrings. Copolymer berrings in a casting reel supposedly zero rust corrosion or lubrication needed.
Angry John reply :
No not at least from a marketing standpoint. Every year the last years model is obsolete 
Big-Bass reply :
TD-Z reels came out in 1998 and they still compete with and beat out most baitcasters as far as ability to fish light and heavy stuff and anything in between. 30 year old Loomis IMX/GLX MBR models have been out that still are some of the most sensitive rods out there. You paid top dollar for those items back then...technology has trickled down to keep the cost down for similar products today (as does place of origin) but for the most part, I think the late 1990s/early 2000s has some of the best fishing equipment available from the standpoint of quality matching price paid. If you buy an Abu, Lew's, BPS, etc. reel today, they are all coming from the same Chinese or Korean factories with specs set by the main branded company. They are sort of generic in that you pick the frame, add color, bells and whistles, etc. and then call it whatever brand you want. Not saying they are bad reels, but I doubt you'll find the same quality in a $400 Abu versus a $400 Shimano or Daiwa.
burrows reply :
On 1/8/2018 at 7:30 AM, Big-Bass said:TD-Z reels came out in 1998 and they still compete with and beat out most baitcasters as far as ability to fish light and heavy stuff and anything in between. 30 year old Loomis IMX/GLX MBR models have been out that still are some of the most sensitive rods out there. You paid top dollar for those items back then...technology has trickled down to keep the cost down for similar products today (as does place of origin) but for the most part, I think the late 1990s/early 2000s has some of the best fishing equipment available from the standpoint of quality matching price paid. If you buy an Abu, Lew's, BPS, etc. reel today, they are all coming from the same Chinese or Korean factories with specs set by the main branded company. They are sort of generic in that you pick the frame, add color, bells and whistles, etc. and then call it whatever brand you want. Not saying they are bad reels, but I doubt you'll find the same quality in a $400 Abu versus a $400 Shimano or Daiwa.
I think you forgot to mention phluger along with all the other generic reels that come from China and korea or "doyo factory "
68camaro reply :
On 1/8/2018 at 5:57 AM, tcbass said:Rods have come a long way. However, besides technology that could make rods a little stiffer, better action, more durable, sensitive, or other will there be any drastic improvements in technology in the future? Perhaps nanotechnology could make rods super light weight or something but not sure.
Have rods reached a plateau in technology?
No way.......technology will keep advancing.....we don't even know what we don't know.......but I like your thoughts on nano technology....
burrows reply :
One day rods and reels will fly.
Yumeya reply :
The Bassman reply :
And one day we will have magic reels with no ball bearings that you have to be careful not to spool out when you cast.
Preytorien reply :
I always think the same thing about bicycles. I ride some oh-my-god expensive race bikes, and every year I'm like, what can they possibly improve, but they do somehow. Something stiffer, lighter, more responsive, prettier, I dunno.
I don't know about rods, but I think in general a lot of composite materials, such as carbon fiber, graphite, and even to an extent fiberglass, will see a lot of replacement by the up-and-coming graphene composites.
Angry John reply :
I think carbon nanotubes will make a huge diffrence in rods but how long until that's cost effective.
WRB reply :
Design its only limited by the imagination. The driver for light weight high strength materials has been the aerospace industry and that has been dormate for about a decade. Nono technology isn't new, it is to commercial usage. Cost is and always will be a limitation to adopting expensive materials and It's a catch 22, quantity lowers cost.
The recreational angler has been willing to pay higher prices and that encourages new product development.
Tom
RPreeb reply :
I've been on the BR forum for about a year now, and one thing I see over and over is the similarity in attitude toward fishing equipment and golf equipment. Each year club and ball manufacturers market the new lines as being exponentially superior to last year's versions, yet strangely enough, the the actual real world data shows that the changes in performance, if any, are minuscule. Most players can't perceive any change at all, but they won't admit that they bought the hype. They have to believe that the new gear has made them better, even though their scoring doesn't reflect that belief. I finally quit buying the orange juice about a decade ago.
I'm not good enough to make the same blanket statement about fishing rods, but it's hard to see how they can make any truly dramatic improvement, aside from bringing the price of the good stuff down to the point where I can justify trying it. 
Sam reply :
Planned obsolescence.
Used for years in the automobile industry.
Rod manufactures always have "something better or different" each year so we will buy their new products.
As Tom said above, the research and development departments never stop. It is their responsibility to produce new rods, reels, lines, baits, boats, trailers, motors, pumps, PFD's, flares, and you name it to continue interest and sales in their company's products.
Don't worry about it. Just go out and buy some new rods. You need them.
And you will make the Bait Monkey happy, too.
Happy New Year!
HookRz reply :
On 1/8/2018 at 6:20 PM, The Bassman said:And one day we will have magic reels with no ball bearings that you have to be careful not to spool out when you cast.Do you mean like the new unmentionables?
The OP mentioned only rods. I would say yes. The crazy priced stuff may be slightly better, but the performance doesn't match the price. The in the late 70's, 80's, even 90's new rods were exponentially better than what we had in the 60's. Frankly the rod world became good enough for me with IMX and Avid. That said I own both GLX and Elite. Had an NRX but really didn't like it. The bait monkey takes no prisoners.
fishwizzard reply :
On 1/8/2018 at 4:04 PM, Yumeya said:
I would love to read a longform article about the effect those things had of the international bering business. That was a crazy amount of demand that seemed to sprout up overnight.
Chance_Taker4 reply :
On 1/9/2018 at 8:23 AM, RPreeb said:I've been on the BR forum for about a year now, and one thing I see over and over is the similarity in attitude toward fishing equipment and golf equipment. Each year club and ball manufacturers market the new lines as being exponentially superior to last year's versions, yet strangely enough, the the actual real world data shows that the changes in performance, if any, are minuscule. Most players can't perceive any change at all, but they won't admit that they bought the hype. They have to believe that the new gear has made them better, even though their scoring doesn't reflect that belief. I finally quit buying the orange juice about a decade ago.
I'm not good enough to make the same blanket statement about fishing rods, but it's hard to see how they can make any truly dramatic improvement, aside from bringing the price of the good stuff down to the point where I can justify trying it.
Before I got wrapped up in the fishing world I was heavy into the paintball world. It was growing exponentially with the latest and greatest technology being released every year. However the difference was just like in the car industry when the new gun was released last years model was discontinued. Every year I was buying a gun for about $1200 just to sell it for $400 (if I was lucky) to pay another $1200. Finally in about 2009 technology plateaued and sales dropped. In 2011 manufactures decided it wasn't in their best interest to release a new gun every year and now they are released every 3 years.
I think the fishing industry is heading in the same direction. There are longer gaps in between latest and greatest releases. An example would be, I know this topic was brought up about rods, the Curado. Shimano released a new Curado every three years however between the I and K there are 5 years. Abu Garcia lengthen the time between updates not only their reels but their rods. I think we are at a time period in the fishing industry where technology has slowed whether its because it hasn't been discovered or materials are just too expensive to use. In the next 5 years there will be another jump start in the market that will push new products faster with better technology.
Team9nine reply :
Been plateaued for decades...just incremental changes and improvements.
Bamboo>Steel>Fiberglass (solid, then hollow)>Graphite/Carbon Fiber with a largely unsuccessful Boron stint back in the late 70s.
A little dabbling with Kevlar and Titanium along the way. Now days it's nano resins. Still waiting for the next revolution...
fishindad reply :
On 1/8/2018 at 5:57 AM, tcbass said:Rods have come a long way. However, besides technology that could make rods a little stiffer, better action, more durable, sensitive, or other will there be any drastic improvements in technology in the future? Perhaps nanotechnology could make rods super light weight or something but not sure.
Have rods reached a plateau in technology?
In the time I've been fishing (50 yrs), yes rod technology has come a long way. Fenwick glass Lunkerstiks were the deal back in the day for bass fishing. Then Loomis IM6, Fenwick's HMG graphite rods and Skyline graphite rods were the deal. To be honest, after Loomis GLX and Fuji Alconite guides were introduced (80's?), there has been no real "drastic" (to use your word, tcbass) improvement in rod tech, IMO. I'm sure rod blank makers will tell you there's a trade-off between stiffness, weight reduction, durability, action, sensitivity, etc. such that there is a finite limit to what a rod can weigh and still have the power, action and durability to catch bass (fish). The reduction in rod weight has made it possible for anglers to use much longer rods than before and this (using light, sensitive 7 foot + rods) has definitely improved everyone's bass angling experience.
The main technological improvements that have been made over the years are from Gary Loomis and his development of IM6-IMX-GLX-NRX, which everyone can agree are relatively miniscule improvements. Same with the move from Alconite-SiC-Torzite guides. Yes, those are definite tech improvements but in the end, things like recoil guides, EVA/Winn grip handles, Microwave guides, split grips, JDM "bling" are not what I would consider technological improvements. Just ways for companies to get anglers (and golfers as mentioned) to upgrade their rods every year or two. I was on that train myself until a few years ago and if I could, I would turn back the clock to buy all the original Loomis Weibe handle IMX/GLX rods I could get my hands on because those rods were the best ever made, IMO. They need to put the MBR 842, 843, and 844 in some bass fishing hall of fame.
the reel ess reply :
All but two of my main 7 combos has a rod more than a decade old. I don't think rods have advanced so greatly in a decade that i need to replace them all. They aren't broken. But I have replaced all my older BC reels. It was a big step up. I just yard sold the round Ambassadeur reels I used for bass 15 years ago. And i finally retired the Daiwa Procaster I got for Christmas when I was 13.
J Francho reply :
I'd like to see some improvements in the strength to weight ratio. A little more wiggle room for bonehead moves with a top flight rod.
Darren. reply :
Self-healing rod tips!
Here's proof it's possible...in theory...hypothetically speaking.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/11/lamborghini-creates-self-healing-sports-car/
QuoteUsing sensors the car can conduct its own health check to detect any damages and self-repair itself by filling the crack with nanotubes to prevent it spreading.
Further North reply :
On 1/11/2018 at 1:07 AM, Darren. said:Self-healing rod tips!
Here's proof it's possible...in theory...hypothetically speaking.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/11/lamborghini-creates-self-healing-sports-car/
Carrying the battery to power it would suck...
Further North reply :
Rod technology...
I saw interesting developments in two places last year with fly rods.
St. Croix came up with a new two piece rod (Sole) that is supposed to improve power, lift and sensitivity.
Orvis has some interesting technology in the new H3 that makes the rods lighter, and that is supposed to keep the round shape better (all hollow rods go oval when cast) that is supposed to reduce deflection and improve accuracy.
Have not tried either.
Temple Forks is claiming similar to the Orvis with their new Axiom II.
Lamson dug up an old idea and refined it - the are mounting their reels much more in line with the shaft of the rod to lessen the effect of the weight of the rod and line hanging below the rod (Might not seem like much, but imagine a 500 grain weight swinging 4" below your hand...and then imagine the same weight in your palm...).
Turkey sandwich reply :
On 1/11/2018 at 11:16 AM, Further North said:Rod technology...
I saw interesting developments in two places last year with fly rods.
St. Croix came up with a new two piece rod (Sole) that is supposed to improve power, lift and sensitivity.
Orvis has some interesting technology in the new H3 that makes the rods lighter, and that is supposed to keep the round shape better (all hollow rods go oval when cast) that is supposed to reduce deflection and improve accuracy.
Have not tried either.
Temple Forks is claiming similar to the Orvis with their new Axiom II.
Lamson dug up an old idea and refined it - the are mounting their reels much more in line with the shaft of the rod to lessen the effect of the weight of the rod and line hanging below the rod (Might not seem like much, but imagine a 500 grain weight swinging 4" below your hand...and then imagine the same weight in your palm...).
The new Helios seems like one incredible stick. I have had the pleasure of handling a few and between the shape retention technology and offering more than one tip, they're doing some really interesting things. I think the biggest thing happening in fly rods is that manufacturers are beginning to learn that anglers want specialized rods for streamers, nymphing, etc and that simply beefing up a blank on a great 4 wt doesn't necessarily make for a good 8 wt. The St. Croix and TFO lines designed for specific applications seem like excellent rods, as do the new Sage ultra fast action rods designed to be over-lined for streamer fishing. I'm very happy that it seems like that industry is moving past inconclusive science like Winston's insistence on boron.
Catt reply :
As long as they can convince anglers their latest buzz word is a must have there will be no plateau!
CroakHunter reply :
Is the technology advancing or the marketing team getting better?
Darren. reply :
On 1/11/2018 at 11:04 AM, Further North said:Carrying the battery to power it would suck...
By the time this tech reaches the rod market,
there will be built-in power, or tiny batteries that
slide in the butt end of the rod 
that can also
be used for counter-balancing! Or we might even
have solar-powered-self-healing rod blanks!!
We'll have to get Phil Swift to do the promo.
bugbee77 reply :
With St Croixs new Legend X having every piece of tech they make maybe they'll take two or so years and come up with something new.
The new thing is the X wrapping that Shimano makes such a huge deal about, despite Abu having the same tech on rods that cost half as much.
Also, I did like the swooping guide train on the Avid Xs that is relatively new. Makes a lot of sense and seems to produce better casting.
BassWhole! reply :
On 1/8/2018 at 8:02 PM, Preytorien said:I always think the same thing about bicycles. I ride some oh-my-god expensive race bikes, and every year I'm like, what can they possibly improve, but they do somehow. Something stiffer, lighter, more responsive, prettier, I dunno.
One of my favorite things to do is climb away from expensive D-ace, or Red (The Campy guys I leave alone), all Envied® out latest and greatest sub 16 lb bikes on my mid 90s Trek OCLV (with downtube shifters)...
Kind to think of it I do the same with rods and reels...
tcbass reply :
On 1/10/2018 at 10:42 PM, Chance_Taker4 said:Before I got wrapped up in the fishing world I was heavy into the paintball world. It was growing exponentially with the latest and greatest technology being released every year. However the difference was just like in the car industry when the new gun was released last years model was discontinued. Every year I was buying a gun for about $1200 just to sell it for $400 (if I was lucky) to pay another $1200. Finally in about 2009 technology plateaued and sales dropped. In 2011 manufactures decided it wasn't in their best interest to release a new gun every year and now they are released every 3 years.
I think the fishing industry is heading in the same direction. There are longer gaps in between latest and greatest releases. An example would be, I know this topic was brought up about rods, the Curado. Shimano released a new Curado every three years however between the I and K there are 5 years. Abu Garcia lengthen the time between updates not only their reels but their rods. I think we are at a time period in the fishing industry where technology has slowed whether its because it hasn't been discovered or materials are just too expensive to use. In the next 5 years there will be another jump start in the market that will push new products faster with better technology.
With cars and trucks now you expect a redesign every few years which is nice because for a few years if you buy a new car it won't change for a few years.
However, the bow industry is just like the paintball industry was, you have to have new models each year which is a disservice to customers because they throw away a lot of great bow models just to have a "new" model for next year and the new model might not actually be an improvement.....but because they have to have a new model every year it gets rolled out.
This new bow maybe a few FPS faster, an ounce lighter, "smoother", or have less shock, but there really isn't anything new because you can only change a cam so much.
So, what did the bow industry do? They just raised the price of flagship bows from an expensive $1,000 to $1,200-$1,400. Unreal.
mhilgtx reply :
On 1/11/2018 at 12:01 AM, fishindad said:In the time I've been fishing (50 yrs), yes rod technology has come a long way. Fenwick glass Lunkerstiks were the deal back in the day for bass fishing. Then Loomis IM6, Fenwick's HMG graphite rods and Skyline graphite rods were the deal. To be honest, after Loomis GLX and Fuji Alconite guides were introduced (80's?), there has been no real "drastic" (to use your word, tcbass) improvement in rod tech, IMO. I'm sure rod blank makers will tell you there's a trade-off between stiffness, weight reduction, durability, action, sensitivity, etc. such that there is a finite limit to what a rod can weigh and still have the power, action and durability to catch bass (fish). The reduction in rod weight has made it possible for anglers to use much longer rods than before and this (using light, sensitive 7 foot + rods) has definitely improved everyone's bass angling experience.
The main technological improvements that have been made over the years are from Gary Loomis and his development of IM6-IMX-GLX-NRX, which everyone can agree are relatively miniscule improvements. Same with the move from Alconite-SiC-Torzite guides. Yes, those are definite tech improvements but in the end, things like recoil guides, EVA/Winn grip handles, Microwave guides, split grips, JDM "bling" are not what I would consider technological improvements. Just ways for companies to get anglers (and golfers as mentioned) to upgrade their rods every year or two. I was on that train myself until a few years ago and if I could, I would turn back the clock to buy all the original Loomis Weibe handle IMX/GLX rods I could get my hands on because those rods were the best ever made, IMO. They need to put the MBR 842, 843, and 844 in some bass fishing hall of fame.
I have a few Skyline and HMG rods, even an old Shimano cold forged handle rod. After seein this thread I took the HMG and put a reel on it with some FC line. Tied on a jig and took it along with a Dobyns Fury rod to my pool. The comparison was jarring, the HMG i recall as being ultra sensitive felt dead compared to the fury. Bumping the bottom after pulling the jig down a step was almost undetectable never mind pebble tech bottom. The Dobyns Fury felt everything.
Graphene and other materials especially resins will continue to improve our rods but who can say for certain how much.
thanks for mentioning those rods, brought back memories of the hard work my Dad mad me do to earn the $ to buy them. I guess that's why I still have them.
Chance_Taker4 reply :
On 1/12/2018 at 1:57 PM, tcbass said:
With cars and trucks now you expect a redesign every few years which is nice because for a few years if you buy a new car it won't change for a few years.
However, the bow industry is just like the paintball industry was, you have to have new models each year which is a disservice to customers because they throw away a lot of great bow models just to have a "new" model for next year and the new model might not actually be an improvement.....but because they have to have a new model every year it gets rolled out.
This new bow maybe a few FPS faster, an ounce lighter, "smoother", or have less shock, but there really isn't anything new because you can only change a cam so much.
So, what did the bow industry do? They just raised the price of flagship bows from an expensive $1,000 to $1,200-$1,400. Unreal.
I'm sure it increases sales for the producing company but it completely kills the second hand business. And to me if you want to grow an expensive sport, paintball, bow hunting, bass fishing, you need a strong used market to introduce new people to the gear. I new person isn't going to spend thousands on gear. I think the biggest positive of the increase in technology is it expanded the $80-$100 rod market and that is the market that will help grow the sport. Your starting to see that trickle down to inexpensive reels as well.
Further North reply :
On 1/11/2018 at 12:51 PM, Turkey sandwich said:
The new Helios seems like one incredible stick. I have had the pleasure of handling a few and between the shape retention technology and offering more than one tip, they're doing some really interesting things. I think the biggest thing happening in fly rods is that manufacturers are beginning to learn that anglers want specialized rods for streamers, nymphing, etc and that simply beefing up a blank on a great 4 wt doesn't necessarily make for a good 8 wt. The St. Croix and TFO lines designed for specific applications seem like excellent rods, as do the new Sage ultra fast action rods designed to be over-lined for streamer fishing. I'm very happy that it seems like that industry is moving past inconclusive science like Winston's insistence on boron.
Well said...there's a reason I have five or six 8 wt. rods: One is for "finesse" topwater (think Ol. Mr. Wiggly), one is for big pike muskie flies (see below)...and the rest are spread out in between.
I am anxious to get my hands on the Axiom II...I want to see how it compares to the first generation Axiom that I use for those bigger streamers. It's not going to be an H3...but I have a good impression of one from a guy who has been fly fishing for 50 years...he contrasted it to the H3 favorably, particularly for 1/3 the $$$.
On 1/12/2018 at 12:08 AM, Darren. said:By the time this tech reaches the rod market,
there will be built-in power, or tiny batteries that
slide in the butt end of the rod
that can also
be used for counter-balancing! Or we might even
have solar-powered-self-healing rod blanks!!
We'll have to get Phil Swift to do the promo.
Made me laugh...but I want the Shamwow guy....
Further North reply :
On 1/12/2018 at 2:26 AM, bugbee77 said:With St Croixs new Legend X having every piece of tech they make maybe they'll take two or so years and come up with something new.
The new thing is the X wrapping that Shimano makes such a huge deal about, despite Abu having the same tech on rods that cost half as much.
Also, I did like the swooping guide train on the Avid Xs that is relatively new. Makes a lot of sense and seems to produce better casting.
So...weirdness...I reacted to "Legend X" because it is the name of a line of (IMO) exceptional fly rods by St. Croix...they are apparently discontinued, and it anyone one is looking for a world class, made in the USA rod at offshore pricing, they still have them in 7, 9 and 10 wt. at $250.
So anyway...I searched the St. Croix site, and nothing came up for Legend X other than the fly rods...but a Google search turns casting and spinning rods at TW...
But here's where I get confused...it looks like the Legend X casting and spinning rods have cork grips, rather than the Xtreme Skin handles I love so much on my Legend X Fly rod and Legend Xtreme Spinning rod...
Color me confused...
Darren. reply :
On 1/13/2018 at 8:57 AM, Further North said:Well said...there's a reason I have five or six 8 wt. rods: One is for "finesse" topwater (think Ol. Mr. Wiggly), one is for big pike muskie flies (see below)...and the rest are spread out in between.
I am anxious to get my hands on the Axiom II...I want to see how it compares to the first generation Axiom that I use for those bigger streamers. It's not going to be an H3...but I have a good impression of one from a guy who has been fly fishing for 50 years...he contrasted it to the H3 favorably, particularly for 1/3 the $$$.
Made me laugh...but I want the Shamwow guy....
Here ya go! VINCE!!
Further North reply :
On 1/13/2018 at 9:33 AM, Darren. said:Here ya go! VINCE!!
That's guy. Made me wince every time...I recall him getting in some kind of trouble...
Darren. reply :
On 1/13/2018 at 9:36 AM, Further North said:That's guy. Made me wince every time...I recall him getting in some kind of trouble...
Heh, yeah...from his Wikipedia page:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vince_Offer
QuoteOn February 7, 2009, Offer was arrested in Miami Beach, Florida on a charge of felony battery after an altercation with a 26-year-old sex worker. Offer contended that he struck the prostitute when she "bit his tongue and would not let go." Prosecutors later declined to file formal charges against either person.[2][30][31]
Columbia Craw reply :
Not even close.
fishindad reply :
On 1/12/2018 at 3:18 PM, mhilgtx said:I have a few Skyline and HMG rods, even an old Shimano cold forged handle rod. After seein this thread I took the HMG and put a reel on it with some FC line. Tied on a jig and took it along with a Dobyns Fury rod to my pool. The comparison was jarring, the HMG i recall as being ultra sensitive felt dead compared to the fury. Bumping the bottom after pulling the jig down a step was almost undetectable never mind pebble tech bottom. The Dobyns Fury felt everything.
Graphene and other materials especially resins will continue to improve our rods but who can say for certain how much.
thanks for mentioning those rods, brought back memories of the hard work my Dad mad me do to earn the $ to buy them. I guess that's why I still have them.
As I recall, Skyline rods were produced out of Texas? I have a different experience in that I kept two original Fenwick Techna AV spinning rods (around 30 years old), the ones with Fuji double foot SiC guides and Aramid Veil, which are still one of my strongest most sensitive rods. Bums me out because I had 4 but broke one in a rod locker and the ex-wife trashed another one : ( I bring them out from time to time for nostalgia's sake.
hawgenvy reply :
As rods and line guides get lighter and stronger, guide spacing will decrease, which should increase performance.
Personally, I'm looking forward to reels that don't backlash due to computer technology. You could cast much farther with no brakes and no backlash. And eventually there might be braided line that becomes invisible under water, like today's fluorocarbon.
bugbee77 reply :
On 1/13/2018 at 9:29 AM, Further North said:So...weirdness...I reacted to "Legend X" because it is the name of a line of (IMO) exceptional fly rods by St. Croix...they are apparently discontinued, and it anyone one is looking for a world class, made in the USA rod at offshore pricing, they still have them in 7, 9 and 10 wt. at $250.
So anyway...I searched the St. Croix site, and nothing came up for Legend X other than the fly rods...but a Google search turns casting and spinning rods at TW...
But here's where I get confused...it looks like the Legend X casting and spinning rods have cork grips, rather than the Xtreme Skin handles I love so much on my Legend X Fly rod and Legend Xtreme Spinning rod...
Color me confused...
St Croix came out with a bunch of new Avid models, a 2 piece mojo, new legend class models, the new tournament bass, and the new legend x line but haven't updated their website yet. Check Tackle Warehouse. They have them all listed.
tcbass reply :
On 1/13/2018 at 11:17 AM, hawgenvy said:As rods and line guides get lighter and stronger, guide spacing will decrease, which should increase performance.
Personally, I'm looking forward to reels that don't backlash due to computer technology. You could cast much farther with no brakes and no backlash. And eventually there might be braided line that becomes invisible under water, like today's fluorocarbon.
How could they make braid nearly invisible?
Why would having guides closer together increase casting, wouldn't that be more guides thus more friction? Or do you mean less guides friction?
J Francho reply :
It's called R&D. Happens in any manufacturing company.
NHBull reply :
I think backlash proof reels will be introduced before there is a discernable difference in rods.
hawgenvy reply :
On 1/17/2018 at 4:40 AM, tcbass said:
How could they make braid nearly invisible?
Why would having guides closer together increase casting, wouldn't that be more guides thus more friction? Or do you mean less guides friction?
What I really meant by "invisible braid" is a tough, no stretch, thin, supple line with braid's properties but fluoro's transparency -- a line of the future, a product merely of my imagination.
Computerized, backlash-proof reels actually exist in Japan but are expensive and may lack durability and reliability. I don't really know much more. But I bet they will be the next great thing in casting reels, one of these days. Imagine skipping docks and bushes with that baby!
Optimal guide spacing is a compromise between light weight, durability, low friction materials and several other factors. Too few guides may increase resistance due to line slap and angles between guides as rod bend increases. Increasing guides can improve sensitivity by increasing contact points with the line and improves the smooth arc of line as the rod bends, but increases weight. But I'm not an expert and don't know the formulae or the science in any detail. There is actually a website with a bunch of forums on the subject called GuideSpacing.com
J Francho reply :
On 1/17/2018 at 9:16 AM, hawgenvy said:Computerized, backlash-proof reels actually exist in Japan
They've been here for over a decade. Calais DC.
fishwizzard reply :
Are DC reels really "backlash proof" or just really "backlash resistant"? Like can one slam a lure into a dock piling 10' into the cast and be fine?
J Francho reply :
Short of something really dumb, yes. My buddy @Maico1 has several that I've tried. They're pretty amazing.
fishwizzard reply :
On 1/17/2018 at 10:46 PM, J Francho said:Short of something really dumb, yes.
Well geez, what's the point then 
I would love to try one, but don't want to blind-buy reels anymore, I guess I need to track one down to demo.
J Francho reply :
You can demo one from TW.
On 1/17/2018 at 10:54 PM, fishwizzard said:I would love to try one, but don't want to blind-buy reels anymore, I guess I need to track one down to demo.
fishwizzard reply :
On 1/17/2018 at 11:00 PM, J Francho said:You can demo one from TW.
Man, I always forget that they offer that. I think once we thaw out I am going to take one for a spin.
I would love love love to be able to demo rods for a few days, but I can see how that would be unworkable. There are so many rods that I am super curious about, but really don't need to buy.
MickD reply :
If I am interpreting the posts correctly it seems that some think nano technology is in the future. It is already here on many rod models by St. Croix, Rainshadow, American Tackle, and Orvis (Helios has nano tech?). As stated, it is only on the top of the line due to cost.
Speaking more on the general subject of have rods reached a plateau, it is my opinion that they are so good now that future improvements will be more subtle than many of the past "breakthroughs," like graphite and micro guides. But there will always be improvements. One obvious example we are now in the process of transitioning is that cork is becoming obsolete in favor of lighter, more sensitive materials like carbon fiber.
Johnbt reply :
"St Croix came out with a bunch of new...but hasn't updated..."
Thank you. I thought I was going nuts a little while ago going back and forth between the St. Croix site and TW site looking at a 7' LTB spinnerbait rod and 7' NEW LT with the same MHMF specs that wasn't on the St. Croix site.
I hate having to work to spend my money. They should make it easy on the consumer.
I have last year's 6'8" LTB spinnerbait MHMF rod and really like it.
bugbee77 reply :
On 1/17/2018 at 11:00 PM, J Francho said:You can demo one from TW.
How does that process work with them?
J Francho reply :
I've never done it. I just know it exists.
hawgenvy reply :
On 1/17/2018 at 10:31 PM, J Francho said:They've been here for over a decade. Calais DC.
Thanks, man, I was trying to remember that name!
fishwizzard reply :
On 1/18/2018 at 3:20 AM, bugbee77 said:How does that process work with them?
From what I jsut read, you pay shipping both ways and they put a $500 hold on your card until the reels makes it back.
bugbee77 reply :
On 1/18/2018 at 4:44 AM, fishwizzard said:From what I jsut read, you pay shipping both ways and they put a $500 hold on your card until the reels makes it back.
$500? Holy cow. I could understand the cost of the reel +$50 or something like that.
Florida Cracker2 reply :
Three years ago, my son sent me a giftcard for Fathers Day and since my Ambassador and Bantam setups were 'long in the tooth', I purchased a up-to-date setup. I still shake my head in amazement when I pick it up due to how light weight it is and how smooth and quiet it casts. Hard to imagine further improvements... but I'm sure there will be.
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