What Is Wrong With Me And Fluro? 2024
coots reply :
I just switched to flurocarbon last year since I really started trying to get better at fishing. We joined a bass club and started taking it more seriously. I read a lot on here, did a lot of research for which is the best for your money etc. I honestly don't know what I am doing wrong here. I thought I solved one of my problems at the end of last year by reading that I should stop tying the Polymar knot and use a knot like Grigsby's no-name knot... or the San Diego jam knot.
My line isn't breaking at the knot.. it is breaking in the middle of the line. Now I'll be the first to admit that I have a "professional overrun" from time to time. But I mean... I don't think this shoudl be happening at the rate at which it does. The line breaking that is..
I've tried several different ones so far and Seaguar AbrazX seems to be one of the worst ones. This past Saturday I fished with Sunline Sniper and it broke off in the middle of my cast and I got to ticked off to try it again.. I just left the rod untied for the rest of the day.
I'm at a loss... I love the sensitivity of Fluro, but I think I may just have to go back to Mono. That or learn how to tie a leader really well. I have a hard enough time trying to tie the San Diego jam or something now due to my limited sight... I can't imagine trying to tie a leader.
Any thoughts?
MarkH024 reply :
Check your rod guides with a nylon sock or a cotton ball. If you get any hang up, that's probably your issue and something is putting a knick in the line. The slightest kink in fluoro on that overrun can create a weak spot as well. High friction/heat will create a weak spot but if it's not breaking at the knot, then your knots are probably fine and like you I tie a San Diego Jam with any fluoro I use. Use KVD LL to make that fluoro nice and supple, that should alleviate a lot of the overrun problems.
You could be creating weak spots when spooling up as well. I'm not sure what your method is but it's not to be overlooked either.
When you're not using the rod and your line is strung up on it for storage, put a rod sock or sleeve to protect it as well. Any hook or sharp edge that grazes your line could be putting a slight knick into it.
coots reply :
Knew I would forget something in my original post. I have checked my guides and everything looks and seems ok to me. I even had dad look at them with me to make sure. I've thought it may be the overrun, but I mean, at what point am I willing to have to deal with the hassle of going all the way down to the "knick" when / if that happens, just to be able to fish this stuff?
I will try some of your other ideas as well. Thanks for the response.
DBL000006 reply :
On 2/11/2014 at 5:36 AM, coots said:I just switched to flurocarbon last year since I really started trying to get better at fishing. We joined a bass club and started taking it more seriously. I read a lot on here, did a lot of research for which is the best for your money etc. I honestly don't know what I am doing wrong here. I thought I solved one of my problems at the end of last year by reading that I should stop tying the Polymar knot and use a knot like Grigsby's no-name knot... or the San Diego jam knot.
My line isn't breaking at the knot.. it is breaking in the middle of the line. Now I'll be the first to admit that I have a "professional overrun" from time to time. But I mean... I don't think this shoudl be happening at the rate at which it does. The line breaking that is..
I've tried several different ones so far and Seaguar AbrazX seems to be one of the worst ones. This past Saturday I fished with Sunline Sniper and it broke off in the middle of my cast and I got to ticked off to try it again.. I just left the rod untied for the rest of the day.
I'm at a loss... I love the sensitivity of Fluro, but I think I may just have to go back to Mono. That or learn how to tie a leader really well. I have a hard enough time trying to tie the San Diego jam or something now due to my limited sight... I can't imagine trying to tie a leader.
Any thoughts?
Try High Seas Fluro Line. They have 2 different models of Fluro type line. I have High seas spooled and it's a great product. Another thing about Fluro line is, you need to check it after a few casts. Your line could be damaged and you wouldn't know. That's the weakness of Fluro line. It will get damaged
Jar11591 reply :
Fluorocarbon doesn't have anywhere near the elasticity that mono does. Is it possible you're using to much power? When is it breaking, on the hook set? And I know its not the knot that's the issue but I always use a clinch knot and never/rarely have break offs.
Alonerankin2 reply :
My opinion.... I don't depend on it.. More trouble than benefit . Are you buying it? Expensive ! I just have a little left and when it's gone.. I will not buy it again.. Company's want to give it fisherman... That's the game.. And that is way different. For me I decided long ago that it was time to get back to basics for just fun fishing! My line choices are solid and reliable and that's it.
Good luck !
Spence
mac_hine reply :
I use and recommend Seagaur InvisX and use a palomar knot and it works fantastic for me. I dont care for the Seagaur AbrasX. Even though its called AbrasX, I dont think its very abrasion resistant at all.
dam0007 reply :
Check out the edges on the spool and guide on reel for nicks. That really shouldn't be happening. I fish flouro almost exclusively and never have that issue.
wnybassman reply :
Is the line actually breaking during one of these "professional overruns"? What pound test are you using? Thinner diameter? Heavier baits? I have a similar issue with one certain braid in 30 pound test that I fish crankbaits with, but it really only occurs when I get over anxious and starting casting way harder than I should be instead of just letting the rod do the work like I should. When I do this the reel backlashes just enough to stop the spool dead and the line will just break somewhere along the way at the weakest point. Once I relax and let the rod do the work, I have no issues.......well............line issues anyway. lol
smalljaw67 reply :
If you are getting overruns, aka backlashes, look for kinks, fluorocarbon gets weak very easily which is why a palomar knot ends up breaking. If you tie a palomar knot slowly and carefully it is the best knot to use with fluorocarbon in my opinion but the other properties it has makes me hate it to the point I don't use it anymore. I stick with braid and a good copolymer monofilament,
Dwight Hottle reply :
Fluro doesn't have the shock strength of regular mono. When you get a backlash the pressure at the point of the backlash weakens the line because of the sudden snap. Heavier line would help solve the problem but not completely. You need to quit backlashing or change line to something with more stretch or inherent give.
MikeinFresno reply :
maybe beaking the line due to having slack and snapping it on the hook sets. Reel down n take slack out before setting the hook.
Smokinal reply :
It's all of these things combined that makes me love, and stay with, a braid/fluoro leader setup on every one of my rods. I, too, thought I was missing something here when I just could not use straight fluoro. I have tried at least 8 different brands including Seaguar, Sunline etc... My thought is, if you have to go through so much song and dance (special way to spool it, KVD LL, special hook set etc), why use it.
Super Slick and any brand of fluoro for a leader and I whack em! Put them together with a blood knot for standard guides; use an Albright for micro guides...found here:
http://www.animatedknots.com/knotlist.php?Categ=home&LogoImage=LogoGrog.jpg&Website=www.animatedknots.com
Glenn reply :
What types of techniques and cover/structure are you using the line for? As some have mentioned, it is easier to nick up. So if you're using it in heavy cover or pulling it through rocks and stumps, that may be the issue.
For example, I throw spinnerbaits into heavy cover, through branches and weeds, and most stuff people only flip. I tried using fluoro for that, and quickly switched after losing 2 spinnerbaits in 2 days due to breakoffs during the cast. None of those were knot failures.
Fluoro, like other types of lines, has a place and purpose; but it's not all-purpose.
KDW96 reply :
I quit using straight flouro. Just too many hoops to jump through,when im tryin to fish? Last year i used a braid to flouro leader with great results, but i was using Seaguar Blue Label leader material. There is a very big difference between leader/ and regular flouro. You get less of leader per spool,but well worth it.
coots reply :
Thanks to everyone who has replied. It is all very insightful and gives me at least something to try to hang my hat on.
At this point, I think I am just going to have to either try to go straight braid when I can, try to find a braind to fluro leader knot that I can tie with limited vision or go back and try a really nice mono.
I love these forums, it's a great venue to talk this stuff out with a lot of great people. Again, all the advice is appreciated.
coots reply :
And just to answer a few of the questions that was in the thread.
I've used the Seaguar AbrazX 15lb test
Sunline Sniper, I think it was the 14lb or 16lb, I'll have to check the boat next time I'm at it.
Invisix, can't remember the test on it, but I always fish 14-16lb
I fish multiple scenarios during a fishing trip... we fish a lot of banks.. a lot of submerged grass.... rocks, stumps etc.
I imagine it's getting nicked somewhere... and it's probably my fault. I can live with it being my fault or doing something wrong... but at some point I've just got to ask myself is it worth it.
Darren. reply :
Coots, I'm in the "I use fluoro" group, but I've only been so over the past year. And I *only* use it as a leader -- but only some of the time. Predominately, I use either P-Line Floroclear (fluorocarbon-coated copoly line), or Yo-Zuri Hybrid (fluorocarbon-bonded copoly).
Those two lines, are by far, more versatile than pure fluoro -- in my experience. And my PB, and many many big bass have come off those lines. FWIW, I also am a soft-plastics fisherman, so my presentations are much slower, in the fishes "face" longer than a crank bait, as it were.
Only saying this to plant the thought that fluoro is not the everything line some make it out to be. But like Glenn said, it has its place. I will tie it on when I have a feeling the conditions require it.
If I happen to hit a snag and puuuuullll to try and free the hook, I need to retie the fluoro leader. I don't always do that, and several times I've regretted not doing it. So my personal experience with fluoro is both positive and negative.
geo g reply :
I personally I love Floro for the sensitivity and the clarity in water it provides. I only use it for worms, flukes, senkos, and other plastics. Because of South Florida's thick vegetation, I only use at least 15 pound test. Not all floro's are the same. Berkley 100% floro professional grade, is the only stuff I use, and I have tried a bunch of others. I use a Palomar knot and have no problems at all, I do wet it and pull tight slowly. I also spray the line often and it does help. I think it might get stiffer in real cold weather, we don't have that problem often. If you get a backlash don't get aggressive forcing the line, you will damage it. I believe floro helps my worm fishing, and I have confidence in it. I use it almost everyday. Good luck, expensive but great stuff.
WRB reply :
2 suggestions; 1. learn to feel your line as you retrieve it and 2. Use Tangle Free line conditioner.
FC line is water proof, doesn't absorb any water and dries out so it should be lubricated often.
Must anglers today using baitcasting reels palm the reel and don't bothern running the line over the tip of the index finger and under the tip of the thumb during the retrieve. If you learn to do this you will feel any line anomaly and increase your strike detection.
You may be damaging the line pulling out a backlash and creating a flat spot in the line that severely weakens it. Learn to control the spooled line with your thumb during casting by not letting the line spring off the spool, preventing a backlash. If you get a backlash avoid pulling on the line loops, instead first put your thumb on the spooled line and wind the cast back onto the reel with your thumb applying pressure. After the line is back on the reel, slowly pull off line while keeping thumb pressure, put the pulled off line back onto the water. The backlash area should pull out without needing to pull out tangled loops or damaging your line.
Good luck.
Tom
retiredbosn reply :
Floro has a crystalline structure, any over run causes it to flatten and sometimes kink. The area where the line does that should be considered as a cut, as the line's structure on the inside has been severed. Although several advances have been made floro is still a brittle product when compared with mono. Think of it more like a solid wire than pliable line. What's happening is the line structure is compromised when an over run occurs, couple of casts later and it snaps. Solution is remove all the line involved in the over-run, or switch to acopolymer like Hybrid or go back to mono. FWIW floro is what Teflon is made of.
coots reply :
Thanks again for all the replies.
So what do you guys think for a knot for Braid to Fluro? I'm thinking I may give the Albright knot a go. I think if I can tie the San Diego Jam knot.. I should be able to pull the albright off.
A-Jay reply :
Coots there are almost as may knots one could use as there are lines. Tie some up, develop a trust and go with it. I use a uni to uni knot.
However my prime distain with fluorocarbon lines stems from the "limited stretch" property.
This is looked at by most as an advantage but to me it's a hidden problem which makes it a huge disadvantage. This limited stretch will only happen a finite number of times before it will part. Unfortunately there is nothing to indicate when that will be. Could be on a snag you've pulled quite hard to free. Could happen after fighting a couple of big fish if your drag is locked down. What an angler must be acutely aware of is that this happens over the entire length of the line that is experiencing the strain, not just the last few feet or just at the knots. Monofilament line stretches like crazy, but will for the most part retain the majority of it's strength and be ready to do it again and again. Clearly braid doesn't stretch at all but it's so strong I'd break a rod before the line parts.
It took me a while to figure this out. Many very experienced anglers have a different perspective on the qualities of the line and I respect that. However my perspective is my reality. After enduring too many problems using fluorocarbon both as a main line and especially as a leader, now every time my angling needs require something instead of braid or as a complement to it, I use Mono.
I'm catching more fish, wasting less time screwing around with my gear and I'm saving $$$
That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
A-Jay
Darren. reply :
On 2/11/2014 at 9:33 PM, coots said:Thanks again for all the replies.
So what do you guys think for a knot for Braid to Fluro? I'm thinking I may give the Albright knot a go. I think if I can tie the San Diego Jam knot.. I should be able to pull the albright off.
Uni-to-uni, Albright (and variants) are my favorites. They are the easiest, IMO, and with practice, you will become proficient and confident in your ties.
I usually use more wraps, the thinner the leader, as well.
gallowaypt reply :
The uni to uni knot is very easy to tie and what I use for tying leaders to braid.
coots reply :
Thanks for the knot input, I'm just going to ahve to practice them and see which is easiest to get done on the regular basis.
iabass8 reply :
On 2/11/2014 at 9:27 AM, coots said:And just to answer a few of the questions that was in the thread.
I've used the Seaguar AbrazX 15lb test
Sunline Sniper, I think it was the 14lb or 16lb, I'll have to check the boat next time I'm at it.
Invisix, can't remember the test on it, but I always fish 14-16lb
I fish multiple scenarios during a fishing trip... we fish a lot of banks.. a lot of submerged grass.... rocks, stumps etc.
I imagine it's getting nicked somewhere... and it's probably my fault. I can live with it being my fault or doing something wrong... but at some point I've just got to ask myself is it worth it.
perhaps you got very unlucky with multiple bad spools or you are having some serious backlash issues. i've used abrazX with no issues and currently use sniper on a few of my reels. I dind't/don't have any random break offs with either line. i really like sniper.
WRB reply :
All FC fishing line is a single filament or monofilament. We think of monofilament line being the original Nylon polymer. The big difference between Nylon and fluorocarbon is hygroscopicity, the ability to absorb water. Both the polymers are elastic and stretch, FC has higher tensile properties and stretches less under equal applied force. Nylon absorbs water improving it's elasticity, strength and tensile properties, FC doesn't.
If you stretch FC beyond it's yield strength it stays elongated or stretched length, reducing the cross section diameter and permanently reducing it's strength. Without lubrication FC overheats when high friction is applied during clinching knots tight, deforming or flattening the line.
FC is expensive and difficult line to tie and maintain...however is has less line drag coeffient in water, sinks instead of floats and lower refraction of light, giving FC an advantage for underwater lure presentations verses nylon monofilament lines.
You must keep FC lubricated when knot tying to prevent overheating. You must change damaged line to prevent line failure.
Tom
bigfishbk86 reply :
Thats what flouro does, it breaks. Switch to CXX and problem solved!
BassWhole! reply :
On 2/12/2014 at 9:57 AM, bigfishbk86 said:Thats what flouro does, it breaks. Switch to CXX and problem solved!
Yeah, I don't get the hype. Big Game for everything but frogs here.
coots reply :
What is this CXX you speak of?
I did a quick google and it came up with some P-line product. Is that what you're talking about?
A-Jay reply :
On 2/12/2014 at 10:33 AM, coots said:What is this CXX you speak of?
I did a quick google and it came up with some P-line product. Is that what you're talking about?
Yes ~ That's the one being referred to.
A-Jay
coots reply :
On 2/12/2014 at 10:35 AM, A-Jay said:Yes ~ That's the one being referred to.
A-Jay
This co-poly stuff is new to me as well. Never fished it, don't know much about it.
Guess Iv'e got some reading to do.
WRB reply :
Copolymer line is a blend of 2 polymers, usually 2 Nylons, 1 with UV protection and 1 with higher abrasion resistance. Nearly every line manufacturer offers copolymer line.
Hybrid is co-extruded line, a Nylon inner core with FC outer jacket. Yo-Zuri was first to offer a hybrid and several others followed.
Tom
coots reply :
On 2/12/2014 at 11:04 AM, WRB said:Copolymer line is a blend of 2 polymers, usually 2 Nylons, 1 with UV protection and 1 with higher abrasion resistance. Nearly every line manufacturer offers copolymer line.
Hybrid is co-extruded line, a Nylon inner core with FC outer jacket. Yo-Zuri was first to offer a hybrid and several others followed.
Tom
Thanks for that explanation sir.
Do you guys really have issues with a copoly line vs a braid w/ fluro leader...
I mean it kinda sounds like copoly is really strong and still sensitive, taking away some of the flaws of fluro...
BuckMaxx reply :
I gave up the middle of last year on floura. I was doing the same thing. I was using braid with a floura leader. On a hook set I would snap it off. I believe I have fished so many years with Mono I have created a habit about jerking too hard. SO I just opted to go back to mono and keep it simple.
A-Jay reply :
Here's some more food for thought ~
A-Jay
http://www.bassresource.com/bass-fishing-forums/topic/130798-favorite-fluoro/
Felix77 reply :
You mentioned professional overruns happen to you more often. When I first made the switch to FC I learned how bad a professional overrun is to FC the hard way. Losing a good fish.
When you get FC tangled it puts significant weak spots in your line. That will cause it to break when tugging on it or playing fish it that part of the line is exposed.
I found the better I got at avoiding backlashes the less issues I had with like breakage.
I personally use Seaguar InvizX and AbrazX and love them both.
Good luck.
Nick49 reply :
Dink, when not using Braid with fluoro, I will use P-Line CXX (high visibility). I use the hi vis CXX when fishing jigs/weighted soft plastics in water deeper than 15 - 20 feet. I am not a big fan of straight fluoro for many of the reasons previously cited. As a line watcher, along with great feel I like the visibility of hi vis braid. The uni to uni knot for braid to fluoro connections is easy and dependable.
coots reply :
I won't lie... the thought of going straight braid for everything is really tempting me right now. I've read a few threads on here from way back when and some even recent as a year or so ago of guys tossing straight braid with good results.
Right now I'm torn between straight braid, braid with a leader of some sort...
And then there's Copoly... (P-line CXX or Yo-Zuri)
bigfishbk86 reply :
Coots, trust me, either use straight braid with no leader, or CXX in whichever # test you prefer. CXX runs strong though, if you want 14lb, get 12lb etc and if you use a line conditioner on it, you'll never have any issues.
retiredbosn reply :
As far as hybrid lines go, imo Yo-Zuri can't be beat. It is not a fluro coated mono as suggested, rather an exclusive extrusion process that results in the mono and, fluro being bonded on the molecular level. The end results is a line that exhibits the best attributes of each and none of the weaknesses. FWIW 12lb hybrid has a breaking strength of almost 20lbs. The refractive quality is much closer to fluro than mono, plus its inexpensive. Give it a try, you'll never switch lines again
spartyon8 reply :
Straight braid and don't bother over thinking it.
plumworm reply :
Coots, as another vision imperfect " bassfisherguy" and a "I hate floro guy" , The members that suggested P-line cxx are 100% "right on" I have used that line for years and have never had a bad day with it. The other advantage of cxx is that it's strength to diameter is the best in the business. P-line will list it as #14 lb. test but the breaking point will be about 18-20. As I said, my sight is not good, however, the uni to uni knot is as easy a knot for braid to leader as there is , just use BIG loops so you can feel the line tip through.Good luck.
plumworm reply :
Coots, I also forgot to tell you that P-line cxx is about 1/2 the price of floro. BPS: 600 yards of cxx 12lb. 17.99
camovan reply :
On 2/13/2014 at 9:22 AM, coots said:I won't lie... the thought of going straight braid for everything is really tempting me right now. I've read a few threads on here from way back when and some even recent as a year or so ago of guys tossing straight braid with good results.
Right now I'm torn between straight braid, braid with a leader of some sort...
And then there's Copoly... (P-line CXX or Yo-Zuri)
I use either braid with yo-zuri leader or straight yo-zuri on all of my setups. The only reason for the leader on braid is for break offs when needed. Since it is the main line on other reels having enough leader on hand is never an issue. Also, it is cheap enough when bought in bulk to never give respooling a second thought if I feel the line has been weakened in any way, which is a big deal for me.
Raul reply :
P-line CXX = near indestructible.
I love - hate CXX, handles horribly once you begin to climb above 12 lb test but when it comes to uprooting a 6 ft tall huizache brush from the bottom of the lake nobody does it better !
The real problem is your line selection, there´s no such thing as a "Jack of all trades" in this hobby, one line type can´t do well and excell at all you want, I´ve fished for more than 3 decades and fish with a variety of lines, some of which I don´t even like, I hate braided line, I think of fluoro as being too expensive and too delicate, but each line type and combination has a place and time.
primetime reply :
I have tried almost every line out there and I recently tried to go back to Fluoro just because I keep "Reading" about it in Magazines...What I have found is that Flurocarbon is not for me, and neither is the leader....copoly leader, Mono leader, no leader, Mono leader for floating properties as well as copoly's, and only use fluoro as a leader for abrasion resistance for Snook and I am talking 60-100lb test as their gill plates make a joke out of 40lb if they are a true lunker snook and I used to think guys were crazy when I heard this...Bass Fishing, I am sticking with Yo-zuri Hybrid 8-12lb spinning & 12-20 casting, same for leaders, and for braid, I go 10-65 depending on application, but I no longer use FLuro as it is smooth, thin, sensitive, casts a mile, but it does break at knots, cold, and why do I have to deal with bad batches, feel my line every cast, and tie bimini twists when Mono or Hybrid keeps my line in the strike zone longer as it floats, if I need it to sink I use a weight, if I want Invisible wich fluoro do I buy? Seaguar and Yo-zuri make invisible Fluro that is green, pink, red...What is clear water anyway? Pool? PHosphate pit? All water is tinted so Fluro for "Dropshotting" and invisible due to light refraction is a gimmick in my opinion, so then Copolymers are invisible since they have flurocarbon coating Mono.......
If I want invisible line, I use a camo line like Triple Fish used to make and it works.....I use Sharpies to color line to match the color of the water, So I like Clear Line to start, white braid and I carry sharpies with razor slits in it and I find a brown, green, purple subtle smear is hard to see in most clear water......
I fished Mono for 15 years without issues, went to braid when it was awful, back to mono, then to fluoro a few years ago when it was awful, now I am back to Braid which is awesome, and for Leader, I will take my Yo-zuri Hybrid all day long over any Fluorocaron on the market and save money for other things...I am sure Fluorocabon is a great fit for some fisherman, but I find it too much trouble and Copolymers do what I need, and if I want my line to sink.....That is really not a problem....I am going Yo-zuri Hybrid for now, Berkley and Stren Mono as I still trust them, and for Braid, I like Suffix, Tuf Line Xp, Power pro Plus, or whatever spectra or Dyneema on sale, and maybe one spinning rod with some crystal fireline superline.....
But, if you are losing lures mid cast, setting the hook to breaks.....Why keep trying when you would get those same strikes on Mono? What is stronger than Hybrid or Big Game, Stren High Impact and I am sure there are more.....I like some lines that are not pitched in magazine articles as Triple FIsh is good, and makes many of the lines mentioned here., only not sponsering anyone....Tried $20 spool of Suffix fluoro 100 yards 12lb test a few weeks ago...Broke of 2 fish because I don't enjoy checking my line every minute, sparying line conditioners, or whatever else required, for 20 bucks and 100 yards the line should be good to go and not break unless I hook into a Monster and I mess up my drag setting...That 12lb test was sensisitive and thin, as soon as cool weather rolled in, it turned to brittle junk.......Just my experiences, I say don't fix what isn't broke for your style of fishing. Buy a quality line and you should not need special knots, line cream, or retie every time you brush up against a tree....Just my opinion...Can't like it or see any benefit, braid and mono/copoymer does it all fine for me and I will not donate money to advertisements anymore.
primetime reply :
On 2/12/2014 at 10:40 AM, coots said:This co-poly stuff is new to me as well. Never fished it, don't know much about it.
Guess Iv'e got some reading to do.
Using a copolymer is going to be the same as using Mono....Only it is usually thinner and stronger and for the money the way to go in my opinion compared to fluoro....You can even tie an improved CLinch knot on a Hybrid, and it handles like the Mono that still works pretty good for most applications....Nylon-Mono coated with FLurocarbon or fused together....Cheaper, strong, and much more cost effective, and no need for sprays, break offs in cold, 28 knots to learn...Just like fishing Mono....and MOno is good, I like that it floats, and yes fluoro sinks, but so do weights which I can add, and Invisibility, they all make invisiblel likes in different colors.....Everyone has a personal preference and I get that, but if you are having so many issues with fluoro, the same one's I have, my suggestion is Copolymer, Mono or braid to Mono...Yo-zuri Hybrid or any copoymer is good. Cheaper and like Mono....I wish I could use FLuorocarbon as it is super nice, but not worth the headaches for me.
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