Losing Too Many Fish Lately 2024
Josh Smith reply :
Hello,
I need some advice here.
This year I've been concentrating on improving my crankbait techniques. As most of you are aware, as the water warms up, a bass's mouth skin gets soft. A soft mouth is excellent for retrieving dogs, but not so desirable when you're trying to keep a bass buttoned to a lure.
At the lake early last week, I lost a bass near the bank on a crankbait, then another on a frog. Though I'm not sure how well the bass was hooked on that frog, I do know that the one on the crankbait was hooked well, and it fought for a bit.
Later that week, I lost two smallies on the river.
This evening at the river, I lost one bass but landed another (see
With these crankbaits, I'm only batting about 50%. I did loosen the drag a bit more and that seems to have helped. I'm already running mono line on an IM6 M rod that has a fairly soft tip. I'm thinking about going back to my KVD glass rod to see if that helps, but I really like the rod I'm using now.)
Any thoughts?
Thank you,
Josh
IndianaFinesse reply :
For the cranks I would recommend using your glass rod, moderate action rods tend to hook and hold fish better when using baits with treble hooks.
scaleface reply :
I did not know a basses mouth gets softer in warm weather .
WRB reply :
Softer mouth......that is new wrinkle!
Set the drag with a scale at 3 lbs, check the hooks for sharpness and set the hook using the reel and rod sweep technique.
Tom
BiteFiend reply :
I also was having issues with fish coming unbuttoned on crankbaits earlier this year. During the pre-spawn, I thought it would be a good idea to switch from a composite crankbait rod to a graphite Med Fast rod. I was banging square bill crankbaits around on rip-rap banks and thought graphite would improve my feel so I can better crawl them through the rocks. I compensated for the stiffness of the graphite with mono, yet I was only hooking up with about 50% of the bass. I then speculated that perhaps I need to change out my hooks since they may be dull from banging the crank baits off the rip-rap. Even after changing the hooks though, I was still only boating about 50% of the fish. It was especially infuriating since I was doing everything right on paper (having my drag set correctly, preventing the fish from jumping, playing them carefully, etc). After a couple days of this, I went back to the crankin' stick and didn't look back. My hook-up ratio was back to 75-80% on them. For me anyway, I need the give that composite/glass offers. Especially when the fish is barely hooked.
GORDO reply :
I have been using the St. Croix MF 7' with 10lb mono for my 3XD and 5XD. When youre setting the hook its important to sweep the rod. I have at least a 80-90% catch ratio. Ive only lost 1 fish this year on that so far. I even landed a 33" 15lb Northern on that set up. Definitely find the sweet spot for your drag to where when you set hook you get penetration pressure but if the fish runs will pull. Contstant pressure is key with keeping them on the hooks. Also, a net is a great addition to your crankbait rod lol I try and get them to the boat and in the net asap.
pikeman32 reply :
I would switch from mono to fluorocarbon. Mono has a lot of stretch in the line so when fish jump they have a lot of time for that hook to wiggle out. Fluorocarbon has no stretch so you get good hook penetration. I generally use 10 pound for deep cranks and 12-17 on shallow runners depending on the cover I'm fishing.
Choporoz reply :
uh oh...
Red Bear reply :
On 7/13/2016 at 10:05 PM, pikeman32 said:I would switch from mono to fluorocarbon. Mono has a lot of stretch in the line so when fish jump they have a lot of time for that hook to wiggle out. Fluorocarbon has no stretch so you get good hook penetration. I generally use 10 pound for deep cranks and 12-17 on shallow runners depending on the cover I'm fishing.
FC line does have stretch. i dont think line is the problem at all in this instance. in fact many people here dont use braid when crank fishing because the no stretch properties of braid causes them to rip the lures out of the fishes mouth on hooksets/during the fight.
Team9nine reply :
The honest answer is you just have to play around with the various components and come up with a system that works for YOU. A perfect example is David Fritts and David Wright, two of the absolute best crankbait anglers to come out of the Carolina's (combined 16 FLW wins and $1.7 M), yet their approaches to crankbait tackle are almost completely opposite. Fritts likes a flexible ("soft") glass rod with a low stretch mono line, while Wright prefers a stiff rod with only a bit of softness in the tip, a sensitive graphite rod, but then compensates with "stretchy" softer monofilament.
I've tried both setups and there are advantages to each. The only thing I've found that absolutely didn't work for me was using an x-fast rod action. Beyond that, just use what works best for you and ignore the rest.
-T9
J Francho reply :
I never heard anything about a "softer mouth." You gotta link or evidence of this?
For cranks, you want a slow taper, not just a soft tip. You might do well to try the KVD rod, but I really think the whole use a special rod to keep them buttoned is one tiny part truth, and one giant part internet conjecture. Far too many use the "wrong rod" for cranking with great success (myself included) for this to be that critical. What I do seriously believe is that a slower tapered rod with moderate action offers a better rebound when deflecting and a bit slower time reacting to the sensation of your bait hitting cover - meaning you aren't immediately burying the bait in the weeds or wood, if you're fishing it right. It's a bit of an art navigating a crank through cover without hanging or fouling, and a slow rod helps.
As for the problem, I'm going point you in the direction of hooks and how you are playing the fish back to the boat. I like Owner Stinger ST-36 for most bass lures. Take a critical look at what you are doing once hooked, and try some different things, like side pressure, and gentle leading while applying light pressure to the fish.
Last thing - small fish seem to have an easier time getting free from cranks, in my experience. I don't worry about those guys too much. Seeing is good enough for me.
JPascavage52 reply :
For cranking, I like a graphite rod that still has a soft tip and parabolic bend. I use a Duckett Ghost crankin' rod. You may wish to look into one of the cranking rods that has a fiberglass/ graphite hybrid resin, as these can offer you the best of both worlds.
Also, are you changing out the hooks when you purchase a new crankbait? I have never been pleased with hooks that are on lures directly out of the package, as a result, I like to switch to either Gamakatsu or Mustad trebles, depending on whats available at my local shop.
Finally, I suggest reeling with the tip down and to one side so that you can get the bait deepest, say in a 5 o clock position. When you do feel a hit, in order to set the hook, just turn to the nearest side and reel up the slack. It's tempting to set the hook straight up and down as you would with many other baits, but I find that I hook significantly more fish by setting to the side.
scaleface reply :
When bass are taking a crankbait deep I dont lose many . When they are barely hooked I lose a lot . Small bass I reel them in and dont care if they come unbuttoned , large bass I am very careful with .
A-Jay reply :
As usual the BR membership has offered several effective & experienced based solutions to a very common situation.
And in close to 50 years of bass angling, I have never noticed that warmer water softens a bass's mouth tissue.
Also, when compared to most braid which has very little, all nylon lines have quite a bit stretch, including Fluorocarbon.
A-Jay
Josh Smith reply :
On 7/14/2016 at 12:45 AM, J Francho said:I never heard anything about a "softer mouth." You gotta link or evidence of this?
On 7/14/2016 at 1:17 AM, A-Jay said:And in close to 50 years of bass angling, I have never noticed that warmer water softens a bass's mouth tissue.
Hi Guys,
I read something about it on here, what, early last year? I decided to start watching, and sure enough, they go their mouths torn up a bit more.
Then again, it could be because they're fighting harder in warm water.
I'll see what I can dig up.
Regards,
Josh
Gundog reply :
On 7/13/2016 at 10:10 PM, Choporoz said:uh oh...
If you are thinking what I'm thinking this thread is about to look like other threads.....
Josh Smith reply :
On 7/13/2016 at 10:10 PM, Choporoz said:uh oh...
On 7/14/2016 at 2:10 AM, Gundog said:If you are thinking what I'm thinking this thread is about to look like other threads.....
Yeah.
Please, no line arguments. I generally use braid for no-stretch, but I want stretch in this application so I'm using Stren. I do not like fluoro and don't use it except for leader material.
I'd appreciate it if ya'll make a new thread for arguing line.
Thank you!
Josh
WRB reply :
Just saying you can't stretch 12 lb mono line using 3 lbs of drag, what you feel as stretch is line drag creating a belly in the line and this has the same effect. If you want to feel line drag let out about 50 yards without anything tied on the end and run it behind your boat about 5 mph make a slow sweeping turn and straighten back out. The line going through the water creates about 1 lb drag and will follow your turning boat wake, that is the belly of line you think is stretch. Surprising how much coefficient of drag mono has.
Set your drag, use sharp hooks, keep in control and very few bass will toss your treble hooks.
Tom
Team9nine reply :
On 7/14/2016 at 3:21 AM, WRB said:Just saying you can't stretch 12 lb mono line using 3 lbs of drag, what you feel as stretch is line drag creating a belly in the line and this has the same effect. If you want to feel line drag let out about 50 yards without anything tied on the end and run it behind your boat about 5 mph make a slow sweeping turn and straighten back out. The line going through the water creates about 1 lb drag and will follow your turning boat wake, that is the belly of line you think is stretch. Surprising how much coefficient of drag mono has.
Set your drag, use sharp hooks, keep in control and very few bass will toss your treble hooks.
Tom
Tom, could you elaborate a bit. Does that statement only apply to long line lengths such as in your explanation? What about pitching or short casts with the same line, say 30'-50' where line drag is considerably lessened due to a variety of factors, and where testing has shown that anglers can generate higher forces (2X or better vs 3lb) that would exceed that drag setting and force it into operation (slip)? I know that if you hung a 3lb. weight on any length of monofilament, in water or out, it would certainly stretch. What would be the difference between that and a hookset? The line wouldn't know which end is applying the 3lb of force.
-T9
Josh Smith reply :
On 7/14/2016 at 3:21 AM, WRB said:Just saying you can't stretch 12 lb mono line using 3 lbs of drag, what you feel as stretch is line drag creating a belly in the line and this has the same effect. If you want to feel line drag let out about 50 yards without anything tied on the end and run it behind your boat about 5 mph make a slow sweeping turn and straighten back out. The line going through the water creates about 1 lb drag and will follow your turning boat wake, that is the belly of line you think is stretch. Surprising how much coefficient of drag mono has.
Set your drag, use sharp hooks, keep in control and very few bass will toss your treble hooks.
Tom
I'd like to hear more thoughts on this, as well. I did not intend my prohibition over line type to be a prohibition on discussion of the type being discussed. Rather, I wasn't interested in comparing apples to oranges to grapefruits.
By all means, discussion of line stretch would be nice.
Regards,
Josh
WRB reply :
Look at the physical properties of nylon that line is made from, percent of yield strength or elongation vs ultimate tensile strength, it's in the neighborhood of 35-40%. This in simple terms means you must apply more then 35-40% of it's tensile strength to yield or elongate/stretch the line. Nylon isn't elastic, it's not a elastomeric material. When a engineering plastic yields it stays elongated or stretched which also reduces it's cross section or dismeter, permanently weakening the line.
Plastics also tend to yield under pressure over time called creep. If you hang a 3lb weight on a few feet length of 12 lb mono it doesn't stretch right away, in time, maybe 1 hour, it will creep under that much force and continue to creek over a 24 hour period. This is the reason to re tie knot often and don't leave them tied over night. FC line behaves the same as nylon regarding creep, has less coeffient of drag going through water. braid has very high tensile strength properties, it's yield or elongation strength is over 80% and doesn't stretch very much before it breaks, being smaller in diameter has lower coeffient of drag, equal diameters are about the same as FC or nylon.
Perception is all the counts, if someone believes mono stretches like a rubber band, then it does in thier minds eye.
Tom
A-Jay reply :
On 7/14/2016 at 2:07 AM, Josh Smith said:
Hi Guys,
I read something about it on here, what, early last year? I decided to start watching, and sure enough, they go their mouths torn up a bit more.
Then again, it could be because they're fighting harder in warm water.
I'll see what I can dig up.
Regards,
Josh
Not saying it doesn't happen - just that I've not noticed it.
A-Jay
Team9nine reply :
I agree completely with your latter statement on yielding - When a engineering plastic yields it stays elongated or stretched which also reduces it's cross section or diameter, permanently weakening the line, but in the first part of that paragraph, the yield strength or yield limit would be the point at which that permanent deformation occurred, not the point at which the line first started to stretch at all. The line will still stretch some up to that yield point, just not to the point/percentage of permanent deformation. This would be the elastic phase of the material. It's why if you're not careful, a bait suddenly pulled free from a snag might rocket right back at you like a projectile. That wouldn't happen without the elastic nature of the line. For example, braid won't do that (a nice thing) 
If you take a length of nylon line (say 12# or 15# test to keep with the discussion) and measure that length, then add a 3# weight (or apply 3 pounds of pressure however you see fit), nylon line will stretch - a good 5-6% depending upon brand, and this would be immediate. As soon as you took the pressure off, the line would return to its original length since you didn't exceed the yield strength/limit. If you left the weight on, creep would eventually set in and that could become a permanent deformation even if you didn't exceed the yield point. In that regard, your point about leaving knots tied is a good one in this regard. Why risk possible deformation and weakness.
-T9
Bassguytom reply :
I use flourocarbon line when cranking and a medium casting rod I don't seem to lose any fish that have committed to my bait. I try to keep it simple. There are a lot of guys here in Philly that have lost all of their teeth from cranking too much.
Sam reply :
Have not read all of the replies but my question to you is "are you swinging the rod to the left or right at waist height when setting the treble hook?"
You may also want to use monofilament as it has some stretch to it and it will give you a good cushion when setting the hook. Now let me add that many pros are switching to fluorocarbon for their treble hook baits. Some are using braid with a flouro leader. One is going to the 8.1/1 ratio baitcaster.
Remember, any slack what-so-ever on a treble hook bait and it is bye bye fishy. You have to keep rod tip high and a straight line from the rod's tip to the bass' mouth at all times. No slack at any time.
As for your frog bite, may I make the following suggestion? - Open the hooks a little with two pliers so the hooks are off the body about an eighth of an inch. Hold rod tip high so that when the bass hits the frog you are giving the bass time to run with the frog before you drop the rod's tip, reel in the slack and make a powerful hook set over your head. This is a pro's trick when fishing a frog so I can't take credit. And remember, if the bass misses the frog you can let it sit there for about 30 seconds before you move it or reel it in and throw a Senko to the location where the bass missed the frog.
Good luck. Now go out and have some fun cranking and frogging.
.ghoti. reply :
OK, I'll ask it. How do you play, or fight, the fish once it's hooked? Are you one of those who points to rod up over your shoulder and cranks as fast as you can? If you are, STOP DOING THAT!
Learn how to use the rod and drag to bring in a crankbait hooked fish.
papajoe222 reply :
What brand and lb. test mono are you using?? I also use a graphite cranking rod with a softer tip and was having a similar problem last year. I switched to 8lb. Yo-Zuri Hybrid from 10lb. Trilene on the same rod/reel. My problem wasn't tearing out the hooks, it was not getting a good hook-set when the took the bait all the way into their mouth.
WRB reply :
Elasticity or memory is the ability of a material to return to it's original tensile properties, i.e. tempered steel spring. Very few plastics have this property; Torlon is one exception. The rod is the primary culprit that unloads is responsible for a weight or lure coming back at the speed of sound, nylon line may add a few ounces towards that velocity. If you believe braid will not load up a rod a fire a weight back at you, you are mistaken.
We are we way off topic. My point is this; set the reel drag below the yeild strength of the line, 3 lbs or 4 lbs is well below yield strength for 12 lb mono.
Tom
Red Bear reply :
On 7/14/2016 at 9:21 AM, Team9nine said:I agree completely with your latter statement on yielding - When a engineering plastic yields it stays elongated or stretched which also reduces it's cross section or diameter, permanently weakening the line, but in the first part of that paragraph, the yield strength or yield limit would be the point at which that permanent deformation occurred, not the point at which the line first started to stretch at all. The line will still stretch some up to that yield point, just not to the point/percentage of permanent deformation. This would be the elastic phase of the material. It's why if you're not careful, a bait suddenly pulled free from a snag might rocket right back at you like a projectile. That wouldn't happen without the elastic nature of the line. For example, braid won't do that (a nice thing)
If you take a length of nylon line (say 12# or 15# test to keep with the discussion) and measure that length, then add a 3# weight (or apply 3 pounds of pressure however you see fit), nylon line will stretch - a good 5-6% depending upon brand, and this would be immediate. As soon as you took the pressure off, the line would return to its original length since you didn't exceed the yield strength/limit. If you left the weight on, creep would eventually set in and that could become a permanent deformation even if you didn't exceed the yield point. In that regard, your point about leaving knots tied is a good one in this regard. Why risk possible deformation and weakness.
-T9
i dont think hanging a weight from line is even close to being an accurate way to measure line stretch, there are just too many variables missing to measure it that way.
Team9nine reply :
On 7/14/2016 at 10:45 PM, Red Bear said:i dont think hanging a weight from line is even close to being an accurate way to measure line stretch, there are just too many variables missing to measure it that way.
You missed the point/context of the larger discussion...
-T9
Red Bear reply :
On 7/14/2016 at 11:09 PM, Team9nine said:You missed the point/context of the larger discussion...
-T9
i dont think even using that scenario aids you in any discussion...
J Francho reply :
On 7/14/2016 at 11:11 PM, Red Bear said:i dont think even using that scenario aids you in any discussion...
It applies, here:
On 7/14/2016 at 12:02 PM, WRB said:My point is this; set the reel drag below the yeild strength of the line, 3 lbs or 4 lbs is well below yield strength for 12 lb mono.
It's the reason for the oft recommended "set your drag to 1/3 the break strength of the line" advice.
Josh Smith reply :
On 7/14/2016 at 9:30 AM, Sam said:Have not read all of the replies but my question to you is "are you swinging the rod to the left or right at waist height when setting the treble hook?"
You may also want to use monofilament as it has some stretch to it and it will give you a good cushion when setting the hook. Now let me add that many pros are switching to fluorocarbon for their treble hook baits. Some are using braid with a flouro leader. One is going to the 8.1/1 ratio baitcaster.
Remember, any slack what-so-ever on a treble hook bait and it is bye bye fishy. You have to keep rod tip high and a straight line from the rod's tip to the bass' mouth at all times. No slack at any time.
As for your frog bite, may I make the following suggestion? - Open the hooks a little with two pliers so the hooks are off the body about an eighth of an inch. Hold rod tip high so that when the bass hits the frog you are giving the bass time to run with the frog before you drop the rod's tip, reel in the slack and make a powerful hook set over your head. This is a pro's trick when fishing a frog so I can't take credit. And remember, if the bass misses the frog you can let it sit there for about 30 seconds before you move it or reel it in and throw a Senko to the location where the bass missed the frog.
Good luck. Now go out and have some fun cranking and frogging.
Sam,
I set the hook on trebles by going from the rod pointed down at about 4:00 (pointing at the water) to up to about 2:00 to 3:00.
There's never any slack, and the rod is bent when the bass throws it.
I use straight mono for this. I've debated braid with a leader, but I've not gone there yet.
Regards,
Josh
On 7/14/2016 at 10:21 AM, .ghoti. said:OK, I'll ask it. How do you play, or fight, the fish once it's hooked? Are you one of those who points to rod up over your shoulder and cranks as fast as you can? If you are, STOP DOING THAT!
Learn how to use the rod and drag to bring in a crankbait hooked fish.
I keep the rod at 2:00 to 2:30. If it's fighting hard, I might put my reeling hand on the rod to keep it pointed up.
I do watch the rod, too, to make sure it stays bent.
That one bass in the other thread I landed by doing all the wrong things. It hit near the bank and I just kinda' swung it up onto the bank when it jumped.
I'm starting to think that maybe it's the drag on this old EON. I like the reel, but it feels funny to me and the drag can't be upgraded due to lack of parts. I have a 4600 on the way; if it doesn't have carbon fiber drags already, it's getting 'em.
Regards,
Josh
On 7/14/2016 at 11:44 AM, papajoe222 said:What brand and lb. test mono are you using?? I also use a graphite cranking rod with a softer tip and was having a similar problem last year. I switched to 8lb. Yo-Zuri Hybrid from 10lb. Trilene on the same rod/reel. My problem wasn't tearing out the hooks, it was not getting a good hook-set when the took the bait all the way into their mouth.
12lb Stren. It's the same stuff I've used since I started fishing. I went over mostly to braid for a while, then discovered river fishing again, and mono is better in this environment for a few reasons. I still use braid for several things, but mostly in still water. My heavy cover jig rod has 65lb braid, my frog rod has 50lb braid (I need to go up in rod power for this application; it's more of a spinnerbait rod); my jerkbait rod has braid.
My worm rod and crankbait rod both have mono.
Regards,
Josh
Red Bear reply :
On 7/14/2016 at 11:19 PM, J Francho said:It applies, here:
It's the reason for the oft recommended "set your drag to 1/3 the break strength of the line" advice.
im speaking in terms of a viable way to test line stretch, not how to set your drag...
J Francho reply :
The post wasn't about line stretch, it was about deformation from line yield. The example was hypothetical. Sometimes threads take a turn down the technical, "measurebator" path. Anyone that has yanked hard enough on a hung lure to break the line has seen deformation from line yield. Tom's point was that he didn't think that was the problem with a drag setting at 3 lbs. of resistance with 12 lb. line.
Team9nine reply :
On 7/15/2016 at 12:50 AM, J Francho said:The post wasn't about line stretch, it was about deformation from line yield. The example was hypothetical. Sometimes threads take a turn down the technical, "measurebator" path. Anyone that has yanked hard enough on a hung lure to break the line has seen deformation from line yield. Tom's point was that he didn't think that was the problem with a drag setting at 3 lbs. of resistance with 12 lb. line.
Thank You 
ClackerBuzz reply :
with treble hooks i do two hook sets (or more correctly 'hook sweeps). it's less common but if they take the lure and are running straight at me i'm more concerned with reeling up line than a hook set. sooner or later they break right or left and i get a hook sweep on them. as long as a bass isn't making a run the opposite direction i will sweep into them a second time. after that i just keep pressure the rest of the battle.
hackney is talking jigs but covers so many great concepts about hook sets. they apply to many techniques like frogging, drop shot, T rig, wacky etc. the more I fish the less i 'set the hook'. no more slack line hook sets. for me it's more about reeling up slack, feeling the fish on the tip of my rod, and hook sweeps. i'm only human so some days i still get over excited and ESPN them
hawgenvy reply :
One thing that has not been talked about in this thread is the importance of managing the jump, which is where too many fish are lost. As we know, when a bass jumps it shakes its head violently, and the inertia of the lure can pull the hook out. I have lost less fish in recent years by more actively managing the jump.
When a bass heads towards the surface to jump -- and I think we all know what that looks and feels like -- I lower the rod tip to the water surface, and reel faster so I can point the rod tip partly towards the fish without letting slack in the line. When the fish breaks the surface, I pull the rod sideways with the rod tip still at the surface, like a low sweep set, to keep the line extra taught during the jump. This keeps the hook pinned. Also, I can often pull the bass's head back down below the surface this way, aborting the jump.
It helps to have a fast reel to do this effectively, which is why I like a fast reel even with crankbaits. Of course, you have to be extra careful doing this with light line and big bass, but if your drag is set right there should be no danger in it.
Josh Smith reply :
On 7/17/2016 at 4:51 AM, hawgenvy said:One thing that has not been talked about in this thread is the importance of managing the jump, which is where too many fish are lost. As we know, when a bass jumps it shakes its head violently, and the inertia of the lure can pull the hook out. I have lost less fish in recent years by more actively managing the jump.
When a bass heads towards the surface to jump -- and I think we all know what that looks and feels like -- I lower the rod tip to the water surface, and reel faster so I can point the rod tip partly towards the fish without letting slack in the line. When the fish breaks the surface, I pull the rod sideways with the rod tip still at the surface, like a low sweep set, to keep the line extra taught during the jump. This keeps the hook pinned. Also, I can often pull the bass's head back down below the surface this way, aborting the jump.
It helps to have a fast reel to do this effectively, which is why I like a fast reel even with crankbaits. Of course, you have to be extra careful doing this with light line and big bass, but if your drag is set right there should be no danger in it.
This might be part of the problem. I've never heard of managing jump before... Thank you!
Josh
Cgrinder reply :
I would try thin braid and a leader if you're considering it already, especially on a soft rod.
Sweep down on the set and let the drag work when the fish runs. Make sure your hooks are sharp as well.
everythingthatswims reply :
Their mouths don't get soft, they just fight harder. It's really easy to keep them hooked on cranks in water below 50 degrees because they almost get paralyzed when you hook them.
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