JACKPOT!! GAME ON!! * update SK vs. Keitech 2024
Wildbillb reply :
The mail carrier beat me home today. And I have a 3 day weekend!! Keitech comparison and photo posted below.
A-Jay reply :
Nice Stash ~
Didn't know those baits were available anywhere yet ?
Looks like you did.
A-Jay
j bab reply :
Are these a direct knockoff of keitech swing impact fats? I assume they use coffee scent instead of squid
Hurricane reply :
Solid...
Bluebasser86 reply :
On 5/18/2016 at 9:31 AM, j bab said:Are these a direct knockoff of keitech swing impact fats? I assume they use coffee scent instead of squid
No, the tail and ribs are both different.
j bab reply :
On 5/18/2016 at 9:53 AM, Bluebasser86 said:No, the tail and ribs are both different.
Ah okay, thanks for the info
Bluebasser86 reply :
On 5/18/2016 at 10:06 AM, j bab said:Ah okay, thanks for the info
I don't have any Fat Impacts or I could take a comparison picture of the two but the Rage baits have ribs that face forward instead of backwards and the tail has the patented Rage flange on it. Like you mentioned they have the coffee scent instead of squid as well.
S. Sass reply :
But if you throw a pack of Keitech out there in the pile its obvious where the profile came from. Take the label off or hide it hold them 5ft away and ask anyone to take a glance and tell you what they are. 9 out of 10 guys that fish these first guess should and most likely will be Keitech.
Its business 101 see something people buy a lot, make a few slight alterations to make it your own, and slap your name on it. Advertise your new and improved backwards ribs as the latest greatest thing. Include a tail design off your other products and voila you now have more income. 
roadwarrior reply :
Or maybe a very talented and creative guy might look at a bait and think this could have been better, not just good enough.
deaknh03 reply :
On 5/18/2016 at 1:24 PM, S. Sass said:But if you throw a pack of Keitech out there in the pile its obvious where the profile came from. Take the label off or hide it hold them 5ft away and ask anyone to take a glance and tell you what they are. 9 out of 10 guys that fish these first guess should and most likely will be Keitech.
Its business 101 see something people buy a lot, make a few slight alterations to make it your own, and slap your name on it. Advertise your new and improved backwards ribs as the latest greatest thing. Include a tail design off your other products and voila you now have more income.
Kinda like what happened to poor Henry Ford.
Last_Cast reply :
I too have a 3 day weekend 
Mike L reply :
On 5/18/2016 at 1:24 PM, S. Sass said:But if you throw a pack of Keitech out there in the pile its obvious where the profile came from. Take the label off or hide it hold them 5ft away and ask anyone to take a glance and tell you what they are. 9 out of 10 guys that fish these first guess should and most likely will be Keitech.
Its business 101 see something people buy a lot, make a few slight alterations to make it your own, and slap your name on it. Advertise your new and improved backwards ribs as the latest greatest thing. Include a tail design off your other products and voila you now have more income.
The "new and improved" backward rib's certainly aren't new. Skinny Dippers have had them for years. The improved part, for me at least, are yet to be determined.
The flange could be a game changer.
Mike
Wildbillb reply :
Strike King left and Keitch right. The SK is advertised as 3.75 inches and the keitech at 3.8.
The have almost the exact same profile. The keitech seems a bit more supple. The SK a bit firmer. That could make the SK more durable. SK has a larger top and bottom hook notch too.
Price of SK $5.79 for 7 baits. Keitech is $5.99 for 6 baits.
Wildbillb reply :
cgolf reply :
On 5/19/2016 at 9:05 AM, Wildbillb said:
Since I have no horse in this race, I will probably not fish either this year, I will say that they look the same in your first comparison pic, the difference in the body is evident in the second though. The tail looks the same to me, what am I missing there. The firmer plastic in the SK bait should give it a different action.
lakeannaangler reply :
Where did you get them at? I didn't think they were available anywhere yet
Hogsticker reply :
The Strike King tail looks stiffer to me. That's what sets the Keitech apart. Suppleness and movement at a crawl. The only way to determine is time on the water. Report back after you've fished them.
Ktho reply :
They come in at basically the same price and look almost identical, don't see any reason for the SK to usurp Keitech in my tackle box.
Bluebasser86 reply :
On 5/19/2016 at 1:46 PM, Ktho said:They come in at basically the same price and look almost identical, don't see any reason for the SK to usurp Keitech in my tackle box.
You get 1 more bait for $.20 less with the Strike King, that's a pretty big difference if you use a lot of them.
Ktho reply :
On 5/19/2016 at 1:47 PM, Bluebasser86 said:You get 1 more bait for $.20 less with the Strike King, that's a pretty big difference if you use a lot of them.
If I was lucky enough to burn through plastics it probably wouldn't matter as much which ones I used.
Heron reply :
The tails look the same. Not seeing the "patented flange."
buzzed bait reply :
i do wonder if the "stiffer" SK may be due to the less flake than the keitech pictured. the more flakes the softer the plastic in my experience. either way, like blue said, 1 more bait and 20 cents less, easy choice....
j bab reply :
On 5/19/2016 at 1:57 PM, Heron said:The tails look the same. Not seeing the "patented flange."
It's definitely not there. Pretty clearly a copy, but competition is good, right? SK isn't the first to copy those, but I bet they are the closest replica, the others I've seen have bad action. I bet they'll catch lots of fish, I wish they were made of SK's perfect plastic though. Oh well, I'm sure I'll still try them out 
boostr reply :
On 5/18/2016 at 8:34 AM, Wildbillb said:The mail carrier beat me home today. And I have a 3 day weekend!! Keitech comparison and photo posted below.
Again, How did you get them already?
As I have never used Kietech's, I'll be going with the Rage Tail for price and quantity. I guarantee they are great quality because Steve wouldn't have it any other way.
Bluebasser86 reply :
Okay, had to check mine. I was wrong, there is no tail flange like I thought, but the ribs absolutely go forward instead of slightly back like the Keitech. How is that going to effect the action? No idea, but it's not the exact same bait, although it's very close.
Wildbillb reply :
On 5/18/2016 at 9:02 AM, A-Jay said:Nice Stash ~
Didn't know those baits were available anywhere yet ?
Looks like you did.
A-Jay
I got mine from the Vandams but looks like Tackle addict has them too.
I'll report how they work this weekend. Maybe I can shoot a video clip of them in action. Side by side if I can figure that out.
bowhunter63 reply :
The smaller size is gonna be killer as a swim jig trailer.
Senko lover reply :
Maybe @Big-O will see this and chime in, he knows what he's doing when designing baits!
Smokinal reply :
I think Wildbillb has more people interested in where to get them than the differences!
boostr reply :
Tackle Addicts has them for 5.99 thought they were supposed to be 5.79 or something.
Senko lover reply :
On 5/20/2016 at 5:36 AM, boostr said:Tackle Addicts has them for 5.99 thought they were supposed to be 5.79 or something.
And that's the deal breaker, right there. Who would pay 20 more cents for a bag, guess I'm taking my business elsewhere ?
Mike L reply :
Just signed up for icast, hopefully I can get some there. If I do I will be on the water before I get home!
Mike
primetime reply :
I like the smell...I picked up a bunch from a local store in bulk and they seem to tear easy but that is just how it is with all good swimbaits I think....Or maybe short strikers just pull of tails since I have had issues with the Kalins as well losing tails, but they are also extra fat...
I can't tell the difference anymore, there are so many brands making copies of the Keitechs and They all have some little difference, I like the sizes of the SK version, I also like how they pack them since Bent tails is always an issue when jamming them in bags, but keitech has invaded the sporting good isles and are usually buy one get one 50% off and start out with a lower price than the SK and other brands...
I want to try the Culprit but can't drop the money since I have way too many swimbaits I need to use, but they look awesome and seem to have a new design not copied, I was amazed at how they looked in person and have to be good since I have never fished a bad Culprit bait and they have finally got their game going in the last few years with 3-4 winning baits....
SK makes a good bait, so I am sure they will work as good as any, they would be stupid to not jump on the ringed swimbait trend before it goes back to the hollow body or shad body in a few years....It seems like yesterday the Money Minnow style swimbait was the ticket, now I leave my hollow bellies at home...
Heron reply :
Competition is good, sure. But I've always considered these to be a let down. The Rage tail line of baits have an established reputation for great innovation. But this time, they've decided to just copy someone else's product rather than creating something with some level of originality.
primetime reply :
On 5/20/2016 at 11:50 AM, Heron said:Competition is good, sure. But I've always considered these to be a let down. The Rage tail line of baits have an established reputation for great innovation. But this time, they've decided to just copy someone else's product rather than creating something with some level of originality.
If you and I were the owner's of Strike King....We would not think twice since every other company has already knocked off the Original design so it would almost be silly for Strike King to not make a version since any bait they make ends up getting marketed better than all the others, and I have no problem with it...Plenty of companies have copied some of their baits and lures, and I can't blame them for taking advantage of a trend...In a way it is good for Keitech that SK is going to be putting these all over TV etc...People will look them up and will probably by a pack of Keitechs as well...
I agree with your point, however since Keitech has never really put a marketing plan forward, they made it by word of mouth for the most part, I think they are actually selling more baits now that big name companies are copying them...The Fact Dicks Sporting goods is carrying Keitech is a good sign, I am sure the SK baits will be popular at first and then will slow down like many baits...
I always felt that the Lake Fork Flipper was the first beaver style bait with a flange but then again I also though Culprit made the first Punch Skirt in the 80's...If you don't pay for the patent or can't, it is hard to make it in any industry these days...You have to give it to Strike King....
They Market Bass lures and baits better than any other company, it seems they are being used on every TV show, Every pro has a sticker on etc...So they are investing in their brand and call me crazy but I have noticed that when I stop by certain shops they have really good SK baits on clearance in good colors..I wonder if people are starting to go with the Havoc, Zoom, and Yum which have all gone in the other direction, make a good bait, and if you have a $10 bill, you can get 3x the amount and I wonder if that is hurting Strike King since they ask a premium for their baits, not alot of plastic in a bag of dream shots for $6....All good, I do love me some Rage Craws, Menace Grubs, Rodents, big worms and I like the goby for saltwater which I think they stopped making...
S. Sass reply :
On 5/19/2016 at 8:44 AM, Wildbillb said:
This just doesn't look very talented and creative in any way except to move in on another bait companies bread and butter. You hang that picture up in any court room and you will be hard pressed to find a jury (unless the jury is blind) to say someone didn't copy someone else work. Only a elitist bass fisherman and not even all of them will commit to saying that isn't a copy.
I know I know its been going on in the bait industry its a cat n mouse bs game etc. But seriously is this the best SK could come up with?
I guess it just irritates me that this is what business has come to. Just dirty in my book and sure some others have done the same but since when did two wrongs make either right. Put yourself on the receiving end of some stunt like this and I bet those who think its all fair etc would have a 180 view when it was their $ on the line.
SK can add to here
2016 - Copied the Keitech FAT Swing Impact but with our great innovation we reversed the ribs, lengthened the hook slot, and shortened the bait by .05 inches 
With Over 2,600 Strike King Brand SKUs we ran out of ideas so we copied a successful competitor.
primetime reply :
On 5/20/2016 at 1:14 PM, S. Sass said:This just doesn't look very talented and creative in any way except to move in on another bait companies bread and butter. You hang that picture up in any court room and you will be hard pressed to find a jury (unless the jury is blind) to say someone didn't copy someone else work. Only a elitist bass fisherman and not even all of them will commit to saying that isn't a copy.
I know I know its been going on in the bait industry its a cat n mouse bs game etc. But seriously is this the best SK could come up with?
I guess it just irritates me that this is what business has come to. Just dirty in my book and sure some others have done the same but since when did two wrongs make either right. Put yourself on the receiving end of some stunt like this and I bet those who think its all fair etc would have a 180 view when it was their $ on the line.
SK can add to here
2016 - Copied the Keitech FAT Swing Impact but with our great innovation we reversed the ribs, lengthened the hook slot, and shortened the bait by .05 inches
I agree that copying baits is not a good thing especially for the little guy trying to make it, but I would think Keitech Makes more money now since Strike King has this bait instead of the other 20 companies before them who are not big enough to make a dent in the swimbait market...Almost all the baits are designed by the same engineers in the same tanks...I would imagine Keitech who has never advertised and is a top selling bait will now have a spike in sales since people always are curious to see why and who everyone is copying...It is like saying Zoom should not have made the Trick Worm or GYB the Senko since the Creme Scoundrel is the original plastic worm.
I agree with your point, I actually think this is a good thing for Keitech, Havoc copied them years ago and undercut the price big time and so did a few other companies, one could argue Keitech copied the ring design from Rebel to Lucky Strike to Lunker City etc...I am sure they are doing fine getting $6 a pack and now more for their frogs and other baits that are now ending up in main stream retail stores....I know the baits cost nothing to make, but it is the marketing that costs money, so free advertising is good for everyone. I remember when people hated companies for making stick worms and that debate still get's people heated..But GYB must not have been able to get a patent like Z-Man/Renosky who was able to shut down Pure Fishing and Strike King from copying the chatterbait but that goes to show that companies can fight if they own the design, but I just figure it is what happens to every lure or bait....
king fisher reply :
Some one correct me if I'm wrong. Mister twister's sassy shad the first swim bait, Rapala had the first minnow, Mepps the first French blade inline, Panther Martin the first shaft through inline, Fred Young the first square bill, and Heddon the first lipless crank bait. Heddon the first walking style surface bait, Don't know who made the first spinner bait , plastic worm or living rubber skirted jig. Every manufacture all over the world has copies of all these baits. If it catches fish someone is going to find a way to make it cheaper. Sometimes the cheaper copies work, other times they don't. When I had very little money I always bought cheap nock offs. Now I tend to buy the mid priced brands. I think it would be a very bad decision for a company to no make a type of lure because they didn't come up with the original idea. I see nothing wrong with this type of competition. That is my opinion, but I have been know to be wrong from time to time. If the idea is protected by a patent than that is a different, issue, and illegal. I'm still waiting for a cheap version of the helicopter lure.
cgolf reply :
On 5/20/2016 at 10:15 PM, king fisher said:Some one correct me if I'm wrong. Mister twister's sassy shad the first swim bait, Rapala had the first minnow, Mepps the first French blade inline, Panther Martin the first shaft through inline, Fred Young the first square bill, and Heddon the first lipless crank bait. Heddon the first walking style surface bait, Don't know who made the first spinner bait , plastic worm or living rubber skirted jig. Every manufacture all over the world has copies of all these baits. If it catches fish someone is going to find a way to make it cheaper. Sometimes the cheaper copies work, other times they don't. When I had very little money I always bought cheap nock offs. Now I tend to buy the mid priced brands. I think it would be a very bad decision for a company to no make a type of lure because they didn't come up with the original idea. I see nothing wrong with this type of competition. That is my opinion, but I have been know to be wrong from time to time. If the idea is protected by a patent than that is a different, issue, and illegal. I'm still waiting for a cheap version of the helicopter lure.
I thinks some are reacting to others saying this will be awesome because it was a rage branded bait, and it might be, we won't know till we get it in our hands, but it is definitely not all that different like some thought, the rage lip on the tail would have been pretty cool. I will wait for the reviews to come in and then maybe purchase some ketechs and rage and see how they work. This is my first year with swimbaits and I will be trying the few brands I have first before the bait monkey wrecks my life with too many choices lol.
bassh8er reply :
To each their own and some are brand loyal so they will obviously sell some.
Look the same to me and this is like when SK came out with the Rage Hawg that I was already fishing from Zoom.
Heron reply :
On 5/20/2016 at 12:14 PM, primetime said:If you and I were the owner's of Strike King....We would not think twice since every other company has already knocked off the Original design so it would almost be silly for Strike King to not make a version since any bait they make ends up getting marketed better than all the others, and I have no problem with it...Plenty of companies have copied some of their baits and lures, and I can't blame them for taking advantage of a trend...In a way it is good for Keitech that SK is going to be putting these all over TV etc...People will look them up and will probably by a pack of Keitechs as well...
I agree with your point, however since Keitech has never really put a marketing plan forward, they made it by word of mouth for the most part, I think they are actually selling more baits now that big name companies are copying them...The Fact Dicks Sporting goods is carrying Keitech is a good sign, I am sure the SK baits will be popular at first and then will slow down like many baits...
I always felt that the Lake Fork Flipper was the first beaver style bait with a flange but then again I also though Culprit made the first Punch Skirt in the 80's...If you don't pay for the patent or can't, it is hard to make it in any industry these days...You have to give it to Strike King....
They Market Bass lures and baits better than any other company, it seems they are being used on every TV show, Every pro has a sticker on etc...So they are investing in their brand and call me crazy but I have noticed that when I stop by certain shops they have really good SK baits on clearance in good colors..I wonder if people are starting to go with the Havoc, Zoom, and Yum which have all gone in the other direction, make a good bait, and if you have a $10 bill, you can get 3x the amount and I wonder if that is hurting Strike King since they ask a premium for their baits, not alot of plastic in a bag of dream shots for $6....All good, I do love me some Rage Craws, Menace Grubs, Rodents, big worms and I like the goby for saltwater which I think they stopped making...
Better marketing? Irrelevant. With regards to bait design, SK could've done better. I find it surprising that they didn't. Honestly it actually has no "rage tail" features to it, so it really shouldn't even be described as such.
Hogsticker reply :
In my experience Strike King doesn't have near the quality control of Keitech or any other high end Japanese hard or soft bait manufacturer for that matter. You're talking mass produced vs massively produced. The Rage tail baits are great producers and we're a genuine design, but aside from that I haven't been too impressed with much of anything from Strike King. I think for the most part it boils down to what you have tied onto the end of your line the most, and for a lot of folks that's Strike King. I'll stick with my Keitechs and you guys can send me pics of all the massive fish you slay on these new knock offs.
A-Jay reply :
Interesting how quickly the tone of this thread changed. Started out innocent enough and then hung a hard right.
I have not ever fished a Keitech bait. They have never been available to me here locally.
SK always is.
A-Jay
Wildbillb reply :
On 5/20/2016 at 5:36 AM, boostr said:
OK, not sure why the quote in my post. Anyway.....
I got out for a few hours yesterday. No luck on the swimbait bite. I liked the action of the SK. It was too cloudy to get a video of the bait in the water and it was later afternoon when I got out. I had a couple of short strikes on it, but never caught a fish on one.
I did end up with 17 bass though. 14 came on a hula grub and 3 on a drop shot. Not too bad for a 3 hour trip.
We will see what today brings.
1201vilbig reply :
On 5/20/2016 at 2:31 AM, Bluebasser86 said:Okay, had to check mine. I was wrong, there is no tail flange like I thought, but the ribs absolutely go forward instead of slightly back like the Keitech. How is that going to effect the action? No idea, but it's not the exact same bait, although it's very close.
I saw the prototypes at the Classic in Tulsa. Steve was there in the SK booth with nothing but these baits. Although he stressed that these were pre-production, he did mention the flange would be on the reversed ribs also. Can you check yours please?
primetime reply :
On 5/21/2016 at 12:12 PM, Heron said:Better marketing? Irrelevant. With regards to bait design, SK could've done better. I find it surprising that they didn't. Honestly it actually has no "rage tail" features to it, so it really shouldn't even be described as such.
Good point about the rage Flange not on the tail..I am sure they must have tried to add one but it probably didn't swim well. My only point about Keitech is how impressive it has been that they are a top seller on TW and have made it into retail stores, yet they made it by word of mouth for the most part...I think that speaks volumes as to how good of a bait they have, I watched a video someone posted about their stick bait and I have to say....It had an impressive action, really good. If their Stick baits were more affordable I would love to try some but then again, the tank is supposed to make the lure look good to our eyes...We don't really know what the fish want to see...
I have a legit question.....Did GYB have a line of plastics before the Senko became so popular? I honestly don't remember since I was late to the Senko Party and entire GYB thing due to price. I think Yamamoto had some twister tails but I used to only fish Power Worms and Culprit, Mister Twister and BPS baits and not look at anything that was expensive because I couldn't afford it...I have been amazed that GYB is still able to get such a premium for their soft baits after all these years, you would think another company would get a chemist to break down the exact Senko formula. I am sure a few companies actually have done that...They just can't advertise that, instead they go the 14 grams of salt route or "same as the Real thing"...I still think it is the colors in GYB that make them work so well...
Just my take...I hope this helps Keitech Grow into a bigger company since I always pull for the little guys...good Points.
deaknh03 reply :
Ok, first off, keitech is not "the little guy", I guess compared to SK they would be, but they are a multi million dollar company that has been producing baits in japan for 20 years. Secondly, unless you just don't like SK on a personal basis, who cares how close the baits are? Do you walk around blindly thru life? Do you not see that EVERY successful consumer product in the entire world has spawned similar products...do you go back to the beginning of the hamburger and only eat at that place because everyone else knocked them off? Do you only drive a Mercedes because he pioneered the gas automobile? This argument that SK knocked off keitech and that such a horrible thing is nonsense, and hypocritical in every sense of the word, unless your a pilgrim. If keitech has/had a patent, and SK or any other company infringed on it, you can be assured that keitech would fight for their $.
blckshirt98 reply :
Keitech will be fine, the word of mouth on the Impacts will keep them flying off the shelves, especially those that have already had success with them. GYCB was fine after other companies started making stickbaits. Retail is a brutal business, imitation happens all the time, buy what you're confident and successful with, and just be happy you have options to choose from.
Big-O reply :
If you fish this type of Swimmer very much, you'll notice that our action at slow retrieve speeds or movement is faster than the others out there. Also at faster retrieves the others brands body and head action decreases to none with only the boot tail moving whereas the Rage Swimmers head and body continue the movement and vibration, especially on a weighted hooks. Jig heads kill the head action more than weighted hooks but they are a very popular and effective rig for them as well. For sure the tails are slightly different in angles, size and shape... a close look will give you the differences. As mentioned in prior comments, there are more per package in ours which is approx. 20% price improvement and of course ALL of our RageTails are made here in the USA and not Japan or China like so many other brands...
The ribs are a hybrid style rib between straight and reverse angle ribs for a reason... It helps with the action, the texture or feel and makes the bait harder for the fish to reject after the bite. Our Pros are extremely happy with them and say they're the best, and they don't BS when it comes to proto designs etc. Most of them also mentioned that the plastic recipe right on the mark for softness as well as good durability. I like'em too and Hope you will as well! I'll try to post a recent action video for you here so that you can review the action results.
Oh by the way, in an earlier comment there was a mention that flake might cause the plastic texture to be softer... Many have thought the same in the past but actually the opposite is true. Flake, like salt when added to plastisol causes the texture to become firmer. Flake and salt are like small braces inside the plastic which firms the feel of soft plastics. Of course, as the bait is used over a long period of time, the texture will become softer as the flake and salt starts breaking loose inside the plastic releasing it's bracing affect.... Hope that helps and is somewhat understandable!
Hogsticker reply :
On 5/22/2016 at 3:23 AM, deaknh03 said:Ok, first off, keitech is not "the little guy", I guess compared to SK they would be, but they are a multi million dollar company that has been producing baits in japan for 20 years. Secondly, unless you just don't like SK on a personal basis, who cares how close the baits are? Do you walk around blindly thru life? Do you not see that EVERY successful consumer product in the entire world has spawned similar products...do you go back to the beginning of the hamburger and only eat at that place because everyone else knocked them off? Do you only drive a Mercedes because he pioneered the gas automobile? This argument that SK knocked off keitech and that such a horrible thing is nonsense, and hypocritical in every sense of the word, unless your a pilgrim. If keitech has/had a patent, and SK or any other company infringed on it, you can be assured that keitech would fight for their $.
Get worked up much?
Big-O reply :
Here's a better photo of the reverse ribs and the tail section.
boostr reply :
I'm a Rage Tail fan boy, so you know where my money is going...
kickerfish1 reply :
At the end of the day I will have a pile of rage tail swimmers and a pile of Keitechs. Both are good companies with good baits that catch fish. I see no reason to be 100% on either side of the fence on this one.
Hopefully SK will offer a dozen colors or more. That may be one of the less talked about reasons Keitechs are popular...
Senko lover reply :
It's funny to me that some of ya'll are so surprised by this, when hundreds and hundreds of products similar to what we have going on here (not a original design) are being sold and marketed as new every year. Rapala comes to mind especially with their jerkbaits, which they always hype up as having super special action, when they are really just another jerkbait.
I have complete, 100% faith in Strike King and particularly the Rage Tail lineup; I've never tried a bait from either branch that I disliked; in fact I routinely throw most of the products that Rage Tail makes; I'm a huge fan of their baits. I have no doubt that the Rage Tail Swimmer is going to be a killer bait, although perhaps not as game-changing as some of their previous offerings.
Is this a completely original and unique design? No. Have some minor improvements been made over the Keitechs? Perhaps, only time will tell. All I know is, I'm sure this will catch lots of fish and be a winner.
buzzed bait reply :
On 5/23/2016 at 12:04 PM, Big-O said:Oh by the way, in an earlier comment there was a mention that flake might cause the plastic texture to be softer... Many have thought the same in the past but actually the opposite is true. Flake, like salt when added to plastisol causes the texture to become firmer. Flake and salt are like small braces inside the plastic which firms the feel of soft plastics. Of course, as the bait is used over a long period of time, the texture will become softer as the flake and salt starts breaking loose inside the plastic releasing it's bracing affect.... Hope that helps and is somewhat understandable!
yeah that would have been me.... that's interesting that you say the flake makes it more durable. i'm not disputing that by any means, but it's been my personal perception all along. i do wonder if that's because most of my soft plastics have been removed from their original packaging and stored in a plano container?
CarolinaBoy4Life reply :
A slight altering or improvement can make all the difference in action and presentation. Not to say keitech has any issues with their bait but we all know ragetail is and has always been quality and action not seen in other baits. The only complaint I've ever heard about ragetail baits is the softness and not lasting quite as long as other baits fish per fish wise. Now to be honest thats not an issue with me. I have always caught way more fish on ragetail than any other plastic. Would I rather have a bait that is extremely versatile and a fish catching machine that sacrifices just a bit in durability for the unique action it brings or would I rather have a durable as all get out bait that does not have the action nor the fish drawing/catching power? Obvious answer for me. I use ragetail along with gambler, d&m baits, and reaction innovations for one reason, design, and performance. I have no doubt the rage swimmers will give me the same confidence and gain my loyalty
Smokinal reply :
I'm just waiting for them to hit Cabelas where I have a gift card! I, too, love the Rage line and I'm sure this will be a great product. And with the extra bait in the package it's a no brainer.
Big-O reply :
On 5/24/2016 at 4:31 AM, buzzed bait said:yeah that would have been me.... that's interesting that you say the flake makes it more durable. i'm not disputing that by any means, but it's been my personal perception all along. i do wonder if that's because most of my soft plastics have been removed from their original packaging and stored in a plano container?
Actually buzzed bait, the comment is that Flake and salt makes soft plastics firmer in texture or feel... durability is most ALWAYS better regardless of the recipe of plastisol when there no salt or flake, so you're on the right track when discussing durability for sure! Also in response to your other question, any soft plastics that are removed from a quality made soft plastic bag and placed in fishing boxes of most any type will start to lose it's oil and elasticity. That's just the nature of the beast, lol... hope that helps!
Silas reply :
I'm going to predict that the Keitech will be a better bait because it's softer and move better at slow speeds.
We all know that Fat Impacts catch fish.
Lets see, I've got $13,000 in a bass boat , fish with a $500 reel and $500 rod spooled with $50 braid and I'm going to worry about $.20?
youve got to be kidding.
I think the new bait is avoiding a patent fight like Zman Chatterbait scenario.
Give me a break!
jtharris3 reply :
I've been fishing the Keitech swim baits for a couple of years. They're great baits and I catch a lot of fish with them. A close second for me is the Reaction Innovations Skinny Dipper. I've also fished the SK Swimming Caffeine Shad quite a bit. As a swim bait by itself it's been ok. Not nearly as good as the Keitech baits.
Im a big fan of the Rage Tail baits, especially the Rage Craw. I just hope these new swim baits live up to the Rage Tail quality and performance! Otherwise they don't have a chance of competing with Keitech in this arena! JMHO....YMMV
boostr reply :
On 5/24/2016 at 9:52 AM, Silas said:I'm going to predict that the Keitech will be a better bait because it's softer and move better at slow speeds.
We all know that Fat Impacts catch fish.
Lets see, I've got $13,000 in a bass boat , fish with a $500 reel and $500 rod spooled with $50 braid and I'm going to worry about $.20?
youve got to be kidding.
I think the new bait is avoiding a patent fight like Zman Chatterbait scenario.
Give me a break!
Not everybody's got a $13,000 boat, and a $500 rod and reel. .20 less for an extra bait, you do the math. Sounds like a win to me. Even if it was the same price it's still a win.
Silas reply :
Only if it works better.
boostr reply :
It'll hold its own.
primetime reply :
At the end of the day......
I know that Keitech makes a great bait...and I also know that Strike King makes a great bait....So I have room in my box for both, I like the fact that so many sizes are now available for this type of bait...Hopefully I like a few of the colors they put out on the shelves....
On 5/22/2016 at 3:23 AM, deaknh03 said:Ok, first off, keitech is not "the little guy", I guess compared to SK they would be, but they are a multi million dollar company that has been producing baits in japan for 20 years. Secondly, unless you just don't like SK on a personal basis, who cares how close the baits are? Do you walk around blindly thru life? Do you not see that EVERY successful consumer product in the entire world has spawned similar products...do you go back to the beginning of the hamburger and only eat at that place because everyone else knocked them off? Do you only drive a Mercedes because he pioneered the gas automobile? This argument that SK knocked off keitech and that such a horrible thing is nonsense, and hypocritical in every sense of the word, unless your a pilgrim. If keitech has/had a patent, and SK or any other company infringed on it, you can be assured that keitech would fight for their $.
I guess you heard something I was not saying....But it will all be OK.
deaknh03 reply :
On 5/25/2016 at 4:24 AM, primetime said:At the end of the day......
I know that Keitech makes a great bait...and I also know that Strike King makes a great bait....So I have room in my box for both, I like the fact that so many sizes are now available for this type of bait...Hopefully I like a few of the colors they put out on the shelves....
I guess you heard something I was not saying....But it will all be OK.
Who said I was directing that at you?
Big-O reply :
This is what I'm using a LOT in the bass post spawn, and the shad spawn being in high gear... It's the Strike King Swinging Swim Jig and the 3.75" Rage Swimmer in Green Pumpkin/Pearl. This is on the deck basically all of the time recently. The jig is a brim color and totally weedless, so it goes through everything making it terrific in shallow brush... and Green Pumpkin/Pearl is a NEW favorite color for me in many of the products we have... Hope yall like it too!
fissure_man reply :
On 5/25/2016 at 8:34 AM, Big-O said:This is what I'm using a LOT in the bass post spawn, ...
Would a fat impact work on this rig?
bowhunter63 reply :
Im a big fan of Rage tail ,They have never let me down.
Big-O reply :
On 5/25/2016 at 9:03 AM, fissure_man said:Would a fat impact work on this rig?
I bet it will, but not sure they have Green Pumpkin/Pearl 
cgolf reply :
On 5/24/2016 at 9:52 AM, Silas said:I'm going to predict that the Keitech will be a better bait because it's softer and move better at slow speeds.
We all know that Fat Impacts catch fish.
Lets see, I've got $13,000 in a bass boat , fish with a $500 reel and $500 rod spooled with $50 braid and I'm going to worry about $.20?
youve got to be kidding.
I think the new bait is avoiding a patent fight like Zman Chatterbait scenario.
Give me a break!
Want to second that not all of us throw combos like you. I and many others have a decent but limited budget for baits, so 20 cents less with an extra bait is a plus for some of us. I wish I was in your shoes budget wise, but I catch plenty of fish so I guess life isn't all that bad.
Silas reply :
Didn't mean to offend anyone. Just in general we spend lots of money on equipment so we should use what we know will catch fish.
Took me 73 years to acquire this stuff. Retired and on SS. I have watched the forums for a few years gathering stuff at bargain prices. with serious health issues, and figuring I'll kick off any minute, I decided to splurge and go out with a bang.
Hopefully, before then, I'll put the stuff up here so others can do the same.
Now, back to the $.20 savings.
cgolf reply :
On 5/25/2016 at 10:50 AM, Silas said:Didn't mean to offend anyone. Just in general we spend lots of money on equipment so we should use what we know will catch fish.
Took me 73 years to acquire this stuff. Retired and on SS. I have watched the forums for a few years gathering stuff at bargain prices. with serious health issues, and figuring I'll kick off any minute, I decided to splurge and go out with a bang.
Hopefully, before then, I'll put up the stuff up here so others can do the same.
Now, back to the $.20 savings.
I have been collecting too as my wife allows, and thanks for clarifying. I love your attitude and that you are still out there chasing that crazy green fish. I hope I am doing the same as I get older and hopefully wiser. Tight lines
Big-O reply :
I want to Thank EVERYONE for ALL of the comments and discussion points in this topic! I would click the like button on every ones responses but it allows only so many at a time or per day and I often run short of days that I can be in the office, lol... otherwise I'm FISHING 
I 'm also one who tries to take all of the different opinions and ideas into consideration especially with this group here at BassResource. It's the FIRST forum I became involved with over 10yrs ago and basically the only one I relate to nowadays. Up to this point, all of my soft plastic designs have had the patented Rage Flange on them to add hyper action to otherwise low action bait designs. Also, this is the first boot tail style that I've been asked to produce.
As you know, Boot tail swimmers have been around for years and have gone through an evolution of design changes as well. Rib designs on soft plastics were also implemented long ago and one of their biggest benefits is giving a softer texture or feel. Making the swimmer ribs to forward angles plus tiny short straight tips basically gives the same soft texture but adds more deflection when contacting grass, wood or other objects, as well as other benefits. Regarding the action and fish catching results... IMO, they're RIGHT and I hope you find the same Being able to produce them here in the U.S. for a good price plus adding 1 more bait which equals approx. 20% improvement over others is also important to me. I'm SURE that there will be several more colors added in the near future but I'm pretty happy with some of them we have now, like the KVD magic and the Grn Pmp/Pearl, they're getting Smoked in my waters!
Is there another NEW Rage Tail bait coming out at ICAST??? YES 
and I'll give you a look at it in a week or so... It's just a different size model of one of my other designs that I LOVE!!! So I'll let you guess for now
gobig reply :
I don't really care if they knocked something off. What I care about is performance and cost.
fishwizzard reply :
The 3.8 Fats are my confidence bait and what I fish maybe 50% of the time, either weightless t-rigged or on a 1/16th oz Rugby head. I am going to give the SK version a try, mainly to see if they are more durable, which is my only complaint with the Keitechs.
My dream lure would have a super tough head but a soft body and somehow is able to survive the retail chain without a clamshell packaging, which I hate for a myriad of reasons. Somehow the regular Impacts can survive being packed in a normal bag with a small insert tray, I don't know why that wouldn't work with the Fats.
Cgrinder reply :
So these are supposed to move better then the Fat Impacts at both low and high speeds? That is interesting and something I must see for myself.
The ribs helping with deflection could actually be a thing. I suppose we'll see shortly if we should classify this bait as a knock-off or an improvement.
THE ANTICIPATION!
Also I am loving the strawmen and rustled jimmies in this thread. You guys keep me young.
blckshirt98 reply :
While the design may share some similar characteristics it sounds like the baits will behave differently. All anyone can really do is fish them both and see for themselves. Maybe you prefer one over the other, maybe you'll find a spot in your tackle box for both just for a different situation. As long as a company isn't in danger of going out of business, just be glad you have options as a consumer.
deaknh03 reply :
One cool thing about this bait is we are privileged to have the designer here to answer questions. Thats pretty darn cool.
Smokinal reply :
On 5/26/2016 at 9:08 AM, deaknh03 said:One cool thing about this bait is we are privileged to have the designer here to answer questions. Thats pretty darn cool.
I thought about this the other day Deak; good point. I, as many others, are members of different forums in different hobbies...ie, bodybuilding, musclecars, mercury outboard forum, Rugar forum and the list goes on. I can't think of another forum where I have the ability to contact a designer like Big-O. And to have him reply as professionally as he does and share his knowledge is something you don't get every day. I tip my hat to him.
cgolf reply :
On 5/26/2016 at 9:54 AM, Smokinal said:I thought about this the other day Deak; good point. I, as many others, are members of different forums in different hobbies...ie, bodybuilding, musclecars, mercury outboard forum, Rugar forum and the list goes on. I can't think of another forum where I have the ability to contact a designer like Big-O. And to have him reply as professionally as he does and share his knowledge is something you don't get every day. I tip my hat to him.
I will say his responses and how he handled this thread had me add some Rage Menace grubs to try on to what I hope will be an order this weekend. I had taken them off the list, but this thread made me change my mind. I like to buy products from good companies and good people, he seems to fit that so I am in.
GetBent reply :
The menace grubs are a good choice. You're doing yourself a favor
Bluebasser86 reply :
On 5/26/2016 at 11:18 AM, cgolf said:I will say his responses and how he handled this thread had me add some Rage Menace grubs to try on to what I hope will be an order this weekend. I had taken them off the list, but this thread made me change my mind. I like to buy products from good companies and good people, he seems to fit that so I am in.
I've met Big O in person twice at the Classic in Tulsa. Last time he joined us for dinner after he finished up at the Expo. Nothing short of a class act. He even took the time to talk to my buddy for over an hour about fishing Lake Fork because he was going down there the next month, and my buddy ended up catching his new PB following his advice.
roadwarrior reply :
On 5/26/2016 at 9:54 AM, Smokinal said:I thought about this the other day Deak; good point. I, as many others, are members of different forums in different hobbies...ie, bodybuilding, musclecars, mercury outboard forum, Rugar forum and the list goes on. I can't think of another forum where I have the ability to contact a designer like Big-O. And to have him reply as professionally as he does and share his knowledge is something you don't get every day. I tip my hat to him.
Salute!
blckshirt98 reply :
+1 to Big-O on his responses and contributions to this thread. Members are getting into a my lure is better than your lure tiff but he's stayed professional and has talked about what his bait/design has to offer instead of disparaging the competition. Both baits will stand on their own merits, a I'll definitely give the Rage Swimmers a chance to win my tackle money.
Fishing Rhino reply :
On 5/21/2016 at 8:42 PM, Hogsticker said:In my experience Strike King doesn't have near the quality control of Keitech or any other high end Japanese hard or soft bait manufacturer for that matter. You're talking mass produced vs massively produced. The Rage tail baits are great producers and we're a genuine design, but aside from that I haven't been too impressed with much of anything from Strike King. I think for the most part it boils down to what you have tied onto the end of your line the most, and for a lot of folks that's Strike King. I'll stick with my Keitechs and you guys can send me pics of all the massive fish you slay on these new knock offs.
Ever take a look at the Zoom Fat Alberts? Talk about a lack of quality control. The bodies are misshapen, dented, and inconsistent. Most of 'em look like seconds. But you know what, they catch fish, and plenty of them. The last time I looked they didn't award "style points" for the best looking, most accurate production of fishing baits. All a fisherman wants to know is, do they catch fish.
Take a look at Lunker Cities Swimming Ribster. It looks much like the Keitech Impact line of baits. A friend of mine "discovered" the Swing Impact and found them to be extremely productive. Then we got some Lunker City Swimming Ribsters. On some days, they'd out fish the Keitech, other days the Keitech were the better producers. All in all, I'd call it a draw.
But, I found a bait I prefer to either of the 4" (approx.) mentioned above. It's the Lunker City Grubster, 2.75" Clear Water bait.
fishwizzard reply :
Eco Pro also now offers a 4" ribbed paddle tail lure. It retails for like $3.50. I picked up a pack during the TW sale frenzy and will report back once I fish them for a bit.
primetime reply :
On 5/25/2016 at 5:32 AM, deaknh03 said:Who said I was directing that at you?
Because you quoted a piece out of one of my posts directly...All good, even if you were to disagree, that is what boards are for...I respect everyone's opinion, and I know you do as well....I have been called worse than a Pilgrim so not a big deal...I was lost about the Mercedes however....All good, I always read your posts and you make lots of good points and give good info.
Thanks.
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