Mono Vs Copoly Sensitivity 2024

Green Trout reply :

Which line is more sensitive:

15lb Big Game or Yo Zuri Hybrid 15lb?

Catt reply :

On 7/21/2015 at 6:24 AM, Green Trout said:

Which line is more sensitive:

15lb Big Game or Yo Zuri Hybrid 15lb?

In whose hands is the rod?

Penguino reply :

All personal preference, but probably yo zuri.

K_Mac reply :

On 7/21/2015 at 7:08 AM, Catt said:
In whose hands is the rod?

Great truth in that! I will take the copoly every time. Catt manages to catch a few fish on the Big Game though!

BobP reply :

Big Game is fairly stretchy, more than Yozuri Hybrid it seems to me. Less stretch = more sensitivity. I think Yozuri has a small edge in quality. If nothing else, it has better diameter consistency. But Big Game is a solid line that has been catching fish for many years. I use either/or without worrying about it much.

Catt reply :

On 7/21/2015 at 9:22 AM, BobP said:
Less stretch = more sensitivity.

Explain please!

No line stretches until hookset

Canyon explorer reply :

My experience is the same as BobP's. The less stretch a line has the more sensitive it is. The difference is even more pronounced with a fly rod.

Catt reply :

Ok I got a 1/4 oz bullet weight, a 3/0 hook, & a 6" worm, on mono.

I cast it out, let it sink to the bottom, take up slack, & a bass inhales it.

How does it stretch at this point?

Please explain how the impossible happens?

Raul reply :

You can´t quantify perception so Catt is absolutely right, it depends of who is holding the rod.

BobP reply :

First, I'm not so sure there are any true "mono" lines that use only one nylon polymer any more, so for all I know Big Game is also a copolymer in the strict sense. Yozuri is a copoly that blends and extrudes nylon with fluorocarbon. As far as sensitivity goes, I think nylon or fluoro lines which are more dense at the molecular level tend to be more sensitive and transmit vibration better than less dense lines, all other things held equal. More dense lines also tend to have less stretch, hence my earlier comment that Catt jumped on. I would expect in comparing equal diameters of Big Game and YoZuri Hybrid that the Yozuri would be a bit more sensitive in transmitting vibration because the fluoro it contains is more dense than nylon polymer. This doesn't necessarily have anything to do with feeling a bite when a fish picks up your bait and actively pulls on your line. We all know that sensing a bite is a lot more complicated than just using one line versus another. But in the end, I want to stack things in my favor whenever possible, even if they are very small things.

J Francho reply :

The "line stretch" guys are the guys that have to look at the rod tip to see it wiggle to know there's a bite. "Soft hands" can detect a bite, stretch or not, blindfolded.

OkobojiEagle reply :

On 7/22/2015 at 1:34 AM, J Francho said:
"Soft hands" can detect a bite, stretch or not, blindfolded.

John, are you one of those "soft hands" guys?...

J Francho reply :

Not always, but I do feel the ticks in my arm bones, when it's calm. If it's windy, I struggle, though. I've heard others describe the same sensation.

smalljaw67 reply :

You must have a mighty good rod that you are going to feel a difference between those lines. The only lines that make a difference in sensitivity is fluorocarbon and braid, but that only was evident when fishing deep, 15'+ as a shallow bite is picked up with any line.

Todd2 reply :

Become a line watcher, clear or clear blue fluorescent works best for me. You'll catch fish that you'll never feel with any type of line.

HoosierHawgs reply :

On 7/22/2015 at 1:43 AM, J Francho said:
Not always, but I do feel the ticks in my arm bones, when it's calm. If it's windy, I struggle, though. I've heard others describe the same sensation.

Because you pick up vibrations through a line regardless of stretch, but better if it is more dense, but less stretch means the line will actually react (ie. line jump) which is more visible, or am I getting this wrong?

J Francho reply :

Pretty much. Can you feel someone tap on the other end of a vacuum cleaner hose? Can you feel it if someone plucks a guitar string? In which scenario would stretch make a difference? How about density?

Team9nine reply :

While we can debate the question forever, the simplest answer is that there is no 'one' correct answer. Much of it depends a lot on how you define and try to measure sensitivity. Another thing to keep in mind is that the mechanical properties of the nylon-based materials will change when they get wet, so you have to define whether you are testing wet or dry, and if wet, what percent of moisture absorption we're talking. Again, this will likely vary by manufacturer and formulation. Plus there are the factors of tension, molecular density, diameter, line coiling, etc.. Much easier to just group them as a class of lines and compare against other classes (fluorocarbons, braids, etc.) generally.

-T9

J Francho reply :

I wonder why dry properties of any line matter at all? I mean, sometimes I fish for squirrels in the trees, but usually I go for fish, and they are under water.

Delaware Valley Tackle reply :

Careful John, you might offend member Fishesintrees.

J Francho reply :

Gee, I thought I could go five minutes without offending. Guess not.

Team9nine reply :

On 7/22/2015 at 3:04 AM, J Francho said:

I wonder why dry properties of any line matter at all? I mean, sometimes I fish for squirrels in the trees, but usually I go for fish, and they are under water.

LOL - - they only matter because many of the manufacturers and people who do tests tend to do them all on dry lines, so you have to deal with that when interpreting their results. Plus there is the fact that at least initially, every outfit you throw beginning any fishing day will have line that has 'dry' properties (unless presoaked or sprayed - KVD, etc.), and that line's properties will change (not fluoros or braids) throughout the day the more you fish them. Which all goes back to my point of not having an argument over it until you create the definition or parameters of which you judge....but I get your point

-T9

J Francho reply :

I'm not telling what I "presoak" mine in…

Catt reply :

The difficulty I have is, "less stretch = more sensitivity"

Mono, fluoro, or copoly does not stretch until adequate force in opposite directions is applied or adequate force in one direction while the other end is affixed to an stationary object.

A bass simply picking up a t-rig off the bottom is not enough force to cause line stretch.

deep reply :

Here's a little test I try sometimes (probably totally unscientific).

Cast your favorite bottom bumping bait (jig. T-rig, whatever it is) out to the depths. Don't count it down, don't watch the line. Can you feel the bait hitting the bottom? Through your rod? What if you hold the line between your thumb and index finger?

Catt reply :

On 7/22/2015 at 8:48 AM, deep said:

Here's a little test I try sometimes (probably totally unscientific).

Cast your favorite bottom bumping bait (jig. T-rig, whatever it is) out to the depths. Don't count it down, don't watch the line. Can you feel the bait hitting the bottom? Through your rod? What if you hold the line between your thumb and index finger?

Yes! Yes I can!

I can feel a 1/4 oz weight hit bottom in 20' of water with mono!

It's one of the things night fishing teaches you!

deep reply :

Well, I don't like to night fish. So I need crutches like premium fluoro and holding/ feeling the line.

RoLo reply :

On 7/22/2015 at 4:17 AM, Catt said:

The difficulty I have is, "less stretch = more sensitivity"

Mono, fluoro, or copoly does not stretch until adequate force in opposite directions is applied or adequate force in one direction while the other end is affixed to an stationary object.

A bass simply picking up a t-rig off the bottom is not enough force to cause line stretch.

I can see both sides of the line-stretch debate, and both are logical (I hate when that happens).

Tom makes an excellent point. Before you can stretch any line, you first have to remove all line-slack.

And as soon as any line is taut (stretchy or stretch-free) it's going to transmit vibration directly to the rod.

That is unquestionably true, but I also believe that less line-stretch does translate to greater sensitivity, I'll try to explain:

In the "stretch matters" camp; it's not about 'on' or 'off', but a matter of degree. That is to say, a taut line

made of any material is going to transmit vibration, but line elasticity will deduct from the magnitude of that signal.

For a fence-case, where the strike signal is borderline perceptible, a highly elastic line may absorb just enough

of that signal to make it imperceptible. In the same vein, we add weight on windy days to reduce the line-belly

and recover some sensitivity. During the hook-set, we kind of swap roles with the fish, and now the fish

gets a chance to feel the angler...LOL. Few would argue that it's easier to drive the hook home beyond the barb

with a non-stretch line compared to a highly elastic line. In my view, no matter which end of the line you tug,

the line with less stretch is going to deliver more power at the opposite end. During the hook-set

we call that 'hook-set power', and while we're sensing the lure on a limbo line we call that 'line sensitivity'.

Now then, if you're one of the gifted anglers with "Soft Hands", all the above goes out the window.

Sorry John, couldn't resist

Roger

BobP reply :

Catt, you're obviously a fan of copolymer or mono line and that's fine for any fishing presentation as long as it works for you. This thread is splitting scientific hairs. Considering all of the factors that determine overall bite sensitivity - the rod, the reel, the line, the bait, how you hold your rod and at what angle, how much touch sensitivity you have in your hand at the moment a fish bites, even your mental focus - well, differences in line composition are minor enough not to get excited one way or the other. But the logic is this: If you accept that more dense fluoro line has less stretch than nylon monofilament line and that it is also more able to transmit vibration (a measure of sensitivity), you can reason that line which has less stretch is probably also more sensitive. A = B = C, so therefore A = C. This might be a false equivalence, but probably not. It really does not apply to situations where a fish picks up your bait and starts to swim away with it, or pull on your line. I applies to situations where a fish picks up your bait and sits there, mouthing it to determine whether it's food or not. To me, that's where a very sensitive line can help me know to set the hook.

Bruce424 reply :

Hold the line above the finger. That is the best sensitivity you could have. Watch how hank parker fishes. Those lines are the same with sensitivity.

zachb34 reply :

I'm a braid user 99% of the time. When I have used fluorocarbon lines it felt that the more dense qualities made a difference in sensitivity compared to less dense mono. Each strike will move line to some degree, and that heavier line that gets moved tends to give you that "heavier" tick. As an analogy it's like dropping a 1/8 oz weight on a scale versus a 1/4 weight. On impact the 1/4 oz weight will make the scale read a higher weight briefly than the lighter weight. The more dense lines seem to put more "impact" on the rods when the line is moved. The lower stretch lines usually feel more sensitive probably because they can transmit vibration better. Even if they aren't being stretched. I have zero scientific evidence for any of this information it's just a theory of mine.

Catt reply :

What I don't like is misinformation!

Sorry BobP but it's been scientifically proven dozens of times that fluoro stretches as much as and in some brands more than mono.

Monofilament, fluorocarbon, copolymer all stretch but but stretching has nothing to do with feeling a bite since it does not occur until after hook set.

Feeling the bite has to do with vibration being transmitted up the line, down the rod, through the hands and interrupted by the brain.

Feeling a bite requires keeping a certain amount of tension on your line so you can feel the bite while at the same time keeping a certain amount of slackness in your line so the bass doesn't feel you.

BrianinMD reply :

I agree with Catt that stretch does not affect sensitivity, no where near the pressure in a bite to cause any stretch. However, the difference in sensitivity will be based on density. The higher density lines will carry the vibrations better, for example braid is not dense at all and has next to no slack line sensitivity.

Catt reply :

But BraininMD I thought less stretch = more sensitivity?

Look at a guitar string, more slack less vibration, less slack more vibration. It doesn't matter if it's cat gut string or steel string!

J Francho reply :

Tension and stretch and vibration! Oh my!

deep reply :

On 7/22/2015 at 6:20 PM, Catt said:
Feeling a bite requires keeping a certain amount of tension on your line so you can feel the bite while at the same time keeping a certain amount of slackness in your line so the bass doesn't feel you.

How would a novice go about achieving these two seemingly contradictory things at the same time?

J Francho reply :

Through time on the water and catching fish. At a certain point, the novice must get off the internet, and cast a line.

Mike L reply :

On 7/22/2015 at 10:39 PM, J Francho said:
Through time on the water and catching fish. At a certain point, the novice must get off the internet, and cast a line.

Allways wanted to say that but didn't want to offend anyone.

Mike

J Francho reply :

For many beginners, most of this stuff is acedemic. For bored old hands, it's interestimg while we're stuck at work, lol.

Raul reply :

THE ONLY WAY TO LEARN is -----> LEAVE "COMPUTER" KNOWLEDGE HOME AND GO OUT THERE AND WET THE LINE !!!!

RoLo reply :

On 7/22/2015 at 10:33 PM, deep said:
How would a novice go about achieving these two seemingly contradictory things at the same time?

Yes they are contradictory, and realistically you can't do both perfectly, but perfection isn’t necessary.

Take a Senko for example, the most coveted lure in America. To get maximum action from a Senko

you need a completely slack line, what we call a ‘freefall’. However, when the lure is completely severed

from the angler, the angler is completely severed from the lure (we can't have it one way in a bilateral event).

Fortunately though, neither perfection or completeness is necessary.

As Catt described, the angler’s job is to maintain line tension that’s midway between ‘taut’ and ‘slack’; a line in limbo.

Gary Yamamoto calls this a ‘semi-slack line’, but I think of it as a ‘semi-taut line’.

Most anglers would be surprised how little line-slack is needed to produce a big belly in the line.

The ratio is about 10 to 1, where nodding the tiptop guide 1-inch will produce about 1 foot of line sag.

This means that a bass only has to move the lure 1-inch to send a message on a semi-taut line.

Unfortunately, when a bass moves the lure in the direction of the tiptop guide, the strike may go unnoticed.

Although we know how many strikes we Do feel, there is no way to know how many strikes we Don’t feel.

Roger

Raul reply :

On 7/23/2015 at 12:15 AM, RoLo said:

Yes they're contradictory, and realistically you can't do both perfectly, but perfection isn’t necessary.

Take a Senko for example, the most coveted lure in America. To get maximum action from a Senko

you need a completely slack line, what we call a ‘freefall’. However, when the lure is completely severed

from the angler, the angler is completely severed from the lure (you cannot have it one way, it must be bilateral).

Fortunately though, neither perfection or completeness is necessary.

As Catt described, the angler’s job is to maintain line tension that’s midway between ‘taut’ and ‘slack’; a line in limbo.

Gary Yamamoto calls this a ‘semi-slack line’, but I think of it as a ‘semi-taut line’.

Most anglers would be surprised how little line-slack is needed to produce a big belly in the line.

The ratio is about 10 to 1, where nodding the tiptop guide 1-inch will produce about 1 foot of line sag.

This means that a strike only has to move the lure 1-inch to send a message on a semi-taut line.

Unfortunately, when a bass moves the lure in the direction of the tiptop guide, the strike may go unnoticed.

Although we know how many strikes we Do feel, there is no way to know how many strikes we Don’t feel.

Roger

And what you don't feel is as important as what you feel.

zachb34 reply :

Just a curiosity question but, being a braid user, I don't feel many if any bites on the fall unless it's a weightless bait for water that's 5'+. I do however watch my line on the fall and sometimes detect a bite. How often do you guys detect a strike on slack line from being a line watcher?

RoLo reply :

On 7/23/2015 at 5:02 AM, Raul said:
And what you don't feel is as important as what you feel.

What I don't see or feel is even more important,

because it's a missed opportunity.

Roger

FryDog62 reply :

I'll chime in on the OP's original question...

Contrary to popular belief (a.k.a Marketing), Fluorocarbon in general has more stretch than either mono or copolymer lines. However it is denser and density is what affects sensitivity more than anything. Stretch doesn't become a factor until the hook set.

So, since Yo-Zuri has fluorocarbon blended into it, logically it is more sensitive than Big Game.

Plus once you do set the hook, according to stretch tests I have conducted, Yo-Zuri has less stretch than either fluorocarbon or Big Game. So I'm predicting an overall more favorable experience with YH than BG.

And no, I don't work for any line or fishing manufacturer..

Catt reply :

On 7/22/2015 at 10:33 PM, deep said:
How would a novice go about achieving these two seemingly contradictory things at the same time?

Experience

kingmotorboat reply :

I used to be worried about sensitivity in my line and all that when I was a newbie a year ago. Now in one year I've learned that sensitivity is almost subjective. We could fish a with the same line and I could feel more bites. You just have to know how to control your slack. Also palm the reel and slide your finger under the line I do this for t rigs and jigs

kingmotorboat reply :

And as catt said experience is key

Raul reply :

On 7/23/2015 at 5:21 AM, zachb34 said:
Just a curiosity question but, being a braid user, I don't feel many if any bites on the fall unless it's a weightless bait for water that's 5'+. I do however watch my line on the fall and sometimes detect a bite. How often do you guys detect a strike on slack line from being a line watcher?

Reason why I say: what you DON´T FEEL is as important as much as what you feel, you detect the bite on a slack line because you cease to feel the bait dragging the line as it sinks and you don´t even have to see the line, is the sensation that the bait has "disappeared" from the end of your line that indicates the bait was inhaled by the fish and is no longer sinking.

Mike L reply :

There is NO line or rod for that matter, that you can just throw and KNOW without a doubt that there is a fish on the other end.

No matter how much we wish there was, it just doesnt work that way.

Sure we keep looking and comparing everything sold wishing for that magic bullet, but it just doesn't exist.

So the next best thing is to try different things that will in our minds give us an edge. And what is the best way to do that?

Buy what you can afford, ask for advise on the best way to use it, and remember why its called fishin.

Mike

Catt reply :

On 7/21/2015 at 7:08 AM, Catt said:
In whose hands is the rod?

BobP reply :

Man, this thread has really wandered into being irrelevant to the OP's question, which was about the relative sensitivity of 2 lines and had nothing to do with whether there are gurus among us who can use supernatural abilities to sense whether a bass might be thinking of mouthing their bait in 40 ft of water. Some can, some can't, some learn to develop a better bite sense, some never will.

MrBigFishSC reply :

On 7/27/2015 at 12:06 AM, BobP said:
Man, this thread has really wandered into being irrelevant to the OP's question, which was about the relative sensitivity of 2 lines and had nothing to do with whether there are gurus among us who can use supernatural abilities to sense whether a bass might be thinking of mouthing their bait in 40 ft of water. Some can, some can't, some learn to develop a better bite sense, some never will.

Yep but it's been entertaining. We've had soft hands, line soakers, scientific theories and rebuttals, and rants against the internet. That's why I like this forum.

My 2 cents: it's more about the lure weight, line weight, setup, and fisherman attention and experience than a specific type of line. Fish whatever you want just fish hard and have fun.

2410

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