Bass Fishing Physics 2024
Sam reply :
OK, so I stole the thread in another topic post and thought it would be interesting to get your input on physics in bass fishing.
The Physics of Baseball is a fantastic book. It presents how physics works when the bat hits the ball; what types of pitches do what; fielding; throwing; catching; and the other impact of physics on the game. Try to find the book if you can. Very interesting read.
Now, how about the Physics of Bass Fishing???
Rods. Reels. Line. Weights. Techniques. Setting hooks. Feeling bites. Structure. Cover. Props. Boat hull designs. Weight of bass boats. And the list goes on.
So what do you think is impacted the most by physics when bass fishing or moving from one place to another in your boat or walking along the bank?
Come on. Give this some thought and we can have a very interesting conversation on everything impacted by physics in bass fishing, which is everything.
fishangdood reply :
Just opened a can. I'm following this post!
K_Mac reply :
That boats float and water freezes from the top down are two biggies, but the physics of putting your bait exactly where you want it is my first choice. It is a very complex equation that most of us don't give a lot of thought.
Tony L. reply :
Still a bit too early in the morning to wrap my head around something this complex, but not too early to realize you just hit on a really interesting topic of conversation. I can't wait to see what others have to say, have some more coffee, and join in on the debate. Hopefully there are a few experts wandering around the forums to offer us a bit of guidance.
If we are adding topics of conversation, I think that it would be neat to also talk about how sound and vibration travel through water, how light penetrates the surface and impacts the perception of color, and of course--- the mechanics of casting.
Montanaro reply :
Bass leveraging hooks
matuka reply :
This is Great! Physics! I'm afraid physics too often made me wanna puke back at the U, (ie intra abdominal pressure producing force greater than contractile force of the esophageal sphincter resulting in ...see, you did it again). I enjoyed the subject, but have bad memories. I too will follow. Reels and rods you closet geeks! Let me have it! luv that stuff ! BTW I too have read bout physics and baseball.
SirSnookalot reply :
Finding them doesn't guarantee success, it does increase your odds. Rods, reels, lines, lures, etc are great conversation topics, but nohow is the best producer. Whatever the species I'm a sight (hearing too) caster first, I'm always looking to cast to a target
Bruce424 reply :
Water displacement. Every bait you put in the water pushes water, no matter how small, your moving water. Kinda fascinating.
matuka reply :
Ok, so I will chime in. And I have to guess the importance here is whether that relative force of that wave created by the displacement is a good or bad thing to the bass,at that moment. I suppose only the bass knows.On 3/30/2015 at 12:20 AM, Bruce424 said:Water displacement. Every bait you put in the water pushes water, no matter how small, your moving water. Kinda fascinating.
MickD reply :
The modern baitcasting reel is a wonderland of applied physics. Magnetic brakes, centrifugal brakes, coloumb friction, lubrication, gear ratios, dynamics, and more.
einscodek reply :
On 3/29/2015 at 6:19 PM, Sam said:OK, so I stole the thread in another topic post and thought it would be interesting to get your input on physics in bass fishing.
The Physics of Baseball is a fantastic book. It presents how physics works when the bat hits the ball; what types of pitches do what; fielding; throwing; catching; and the other impact of physics on the game. Try to find the book if you can. Very interesting read.
Now, how about the Physics of Bass Fishing???
Rods. Reels. Line. Weights. Techniques. Setting hooks. Feeling bites. Structure. Cover. Props. Boat hull designs. Weight of bass boats. And the list goes on.
So what do you think is impacted the most by physics when bass fishing or moving from one place to another in your boat or walking along the bank?
Come on. Give this some thought and we can have a very interesting conversation on everything impacted by physics in bass fishing, which is everything.
Lots of physics going on.. from the angle of sunlight in the various seasons and times of day to the absorption of enrgy by murky water to the angle of retrieve changing the closer your lure approaches on its return to the fact water is largely considered incompressible and transmits vibrations much fast than air to proper way of sharpening of hookpoints to the penetration of light into the water and how color is affected to the slack pull slack of a properly timed walk the dog..
All of this comes together into you landing a fish or not by probabilities converging of multitudes of factors at the time you are fishing
QUAKEnSHAKE reply :
Knots
Sam reply :
On 3/29/2015 at 9:32 PM, Montanaro said:Bass leveraging hooks
Yes! How come when you hook a big lady on a treble hook bait, with at least six hooks to stick her, she can throw the bait at the boat?
How come if you allow any slack in the line after hooking a bass on a treble hook bait they can throw it?
I was told that when a bass grabs a treble hook bait and starts to jump and twist the pressure created acts like a fulcrum and the hooks will pull out of the bass' mouth. I have lost bass at the boat on crankbaits and also when I allowed just a tad of slack in the line when fighting the fish. I still have problems figuring out both situations.
And what about that Texas or Shaky Head presentation where the bass throws off the hook after a hard hookset? How does that happen? You get the hit. You set the hook hard over your head. The bass takes off. And then the bass comes unhooked. How? Good, hard hit. Great hookset. Waited a few seconds before setting the hook to make sure she had the bait in her mouth. And she still gets off. Explain this to me, please.
Treble hooks. There are all kinds of treble hooks. Long shank. Short shank. Different sizes. Different colors. Other variables. Which ones are the best? The ones that come on the baits or the ones you select to change out the ones that come on the baits? And why is it important to have a larger front treble hook than the rear hook? And why do the pros remove the rear hook from lipless and square bill crankbaits?
Any input?
Sam reply :
On 3/30/2015 at 2:56 AM, MickD said:The modern baitcasting reel is a wonderland of applied physics. Magnetic brakes, centrifugal brakes, coloumb friction, lubrication, gear ratios, dynamics, and more.
MickD, yes, you are correct.
So why do we agonize about purchasing a reel? What makes one reel more efficient than another?
Which reels cast better and which ones can take the abuse and still keep on performing as expected?
When spooling line, why use a backing on the spool? How much line do you need to make sure the casting ability is maximized?
How tight should you set the drag?
Under what conditions should you not use your reel as it could be damaged by the size of the fish or the structure/cover you are fishing?
The parts of each reel are generally the same. Some reels have advanced systems while others do not.
So what do we do when selecting a reel that will perform as expected day to day to day no matter how we abuse it?
hoosierbass07 reply :
I was going to start a new thread but this question might fall into physics - what are the most and least aerodynamic lures that cast well and not well when using a baitcaster? I'm trying to get into baitcasters and so far have been playing around with crankbaits. They seem to fly through the air nicely and even cut through some wind. But I read spinnerbaits catch the wind easily. So which lures catch the least amount and which lures catch the most? I want to know about all the basic ones: Texas rigged worms/stick baits/lizards/creature baits, jigs with trailers, spinnerbaits, crankbaits, frogs, walk the dog type lures, small hair jigs, inline spinners and spoons.
Ozark_Basser reply :
Physics plays a HUGE role in bass fishing. Hydrodynamics factors in how we design and fish lures along with how bass boats are designed. Thermodynamics plays into fish location and seasonal patterns, not to mention the solubility of gases, in particular, oxygen.
The concept I tend to lean on the most in my fishing is density. Whether it's the rate of fall of a jig, swimbait, or jerkbait, the buoyancy of a particular plastic on a drop shot or shakey head, the bouyancy of a crankbait, or line selection, density plays the biggest role for me.
Team9nine reply :
Everything...if you get right down to it - way too much to even begin trying to reply.
-T9
QUAKEnSHAKE reply :
Sunglasses the physics behind polarization & lens tint enabling me to look into the water to spot cover/weeds/logs and even fish. Also the ergonomic physics applied to style/fit/comfort of frame to prevent me from getting a headache and not being able to concentrate.
chelboed reply :
Bass fishing physics. Way to bring nerdville to a good old down home manly hobby.
I guess that's what you get when you discuss fishing on the interwebz.
Josh Smith reply :
I have always thought it interesting how much power we give up for speed with rods.
I can lift my 50-lb son up with one arm, not a problem.
You put me on a rod and a 15lb fish is a challenge.
Josh
matuka reply :
I'll take a little stab at this, though it's not quite high level physics that I am trying to convey, (no can do). First off, we all are going to lose fish from hooks shaking loose, single hooks, jigs and all of our favorite treble hooks. The way I have pondered this to sooth my nerves after dumping a fish is with treble hooks we often never get a good hook set anyway. If a bass swallows say, a squarebill, there are potentially six points to pierce the flesh on the inside of the fishes mouth. Then it needs to penetrate into more secure cartilage or bone past the barb. If three or four hook points connect simultaneously, then the force needed to get these four hooks to penetrate quadruples, I would think. With stretchy line and a softer cranking rod that produces a lever arm of say, 2/3 thirds it's length, I'm not confident we can apply all that force. Now if one hook sticks solid, that crank has no more room to advance and penetrate subsequent hook points. Some may stick in the mucosal layer in the mouth, but penetrate further? I'm not too sure. You are left to fight with one small hook. I don't recall ever unhooking a treble that forced it's way all the way thru the bone like a jig hook would in the top of the mouth, (not the thinner lip or the membrane connecting the two). There are a host of Delta fisherman here who subscribe to the braid and flipping stick mode of cranking. There point is more power for hooksetting into hard mouth parts of big bass and the leverage to haul them in. Dee Thomas says we put to much concern in how well a rod casts a particular bait, not how well it can another site. He adds "I'll throw it out there by hand if I have to". Well all this is for a swallowed bait. When part or all of the bait is hanging out of the mouth obviously you have more problems. Sometimes I wonder if we should strive to have two points in the somewhat tough lip and one more point from the back hook stuck on the outside of his head! Okay, I'm no physicist or engineer and I've gotten tangential and my fingers are tired. Hope someone else picks up where I exit.On 3/30/2015 at 7:54 AM, Sam said:Yes! How come when you hook a big lady on a treble hook bait, with at least six hooks to stick her, she can throw the bait at the boat?
How come if you allow any slack in the line after hooking a bass on a treble hook bait they can throw it?
I was told that when a bass grabs a treble hook bait and starts to jump and twist the pressure created acts like a fulcrum and the hooks will pull out of the bass' mouth. I have lost bass at the boat on crankbaits and also when I allowed just a tad of slack in the line when fighting the fish. I still have problems figuring out both situations.
And what about that Texas or Shaky Head presentation where the bass throws off the hook after a hard hookset? How does that happen? You get the hit. You set the hook hard over your head. The bass takes off. And then the bass comes unhooked. How? Good, hard hit. Great hookset. Waited a few seconds before setting the hook to make sure she had the bait in her mouth. And she still gets off. Explain this to me, please.
Treble hooks. There are all kinds of treble hooks. Long shank. Short shank. Different sizes. Different colors. Other variables. Which ones are the best? The ones that come on the baits or the ones you select to change out the ones that come on the baits? And why is it important to have a larger front treble hook than the rear hook? And why do the pros remove the rear hook from lipless and square bill crankbaits?
Any input?
CRANKENSTIEN reply :
Wind. Wind effects ithe physics of it all. If it is bad enough you won't even take your boat out. But you can still cast with the wind. ??
CRANKENSTIEN reply :
Wind. Wind effects it all. If it is bad enough you won't take your boat out but you can still cast with the wind. ??
Hogsticker reply :
Over complicate things much? I'm all about simplicity. I think I'd rather replace the word physics with joys. Keep calm and catch bass. Perhaps next we should talk about breathing patterns while we fish. I can literally see this thread turning into your written book.
matuka reply :
good: spoons, lipless cranksOn 3/30/2015 at 8:42 AM, hoosierbass07 said:I was going to start a new thread but this question might fall into physics - what are the most and least aerodynamic lures that cast well and not well when using a baitcaster? I'm trying to get into baitcasters and so far have been playing around with crankbaits. They seem to fly through the air nicely and even cut through some wind. But I read spinnerbaits catch the wind easily. So which lures catch the least amount and which lures catch the most? I want to know about all the basic ones: Texas rigged worms/stick baits/lizards/creature baits, jigs with trailers, spinnerbaits, crankbaits, frogs, walk the dog type lures, small hair jigs, inline spinners and spoons.
bad: 1/4 oz spinnerbaits into the wind, especially with a trailer
chelboed reply :
On 3/30/2015 at 11:34 AM, matuka said:good: spoons, lipless cranks
bad: 1/4 oz spinnerbaits into the wind, especially with a trailer
Red Eye Shad casts way better than RatL Trap. Mepps #4 casts way better than a traditional spinner bait.
fishangdood reply :
On 3/30/2015 at 11:42 AM, chelboed said:Red Eye Shad casts way better than RatL Trap. Mepps #4 casts way better than a traditional spinner bait.
Rocket Shad would be the perfect compromise of the two. Too bad they don't come with red eyes, but it can always be swapped out.
SirSnookalot reply :
On 3/30/2015 at 11:25 AM, Hogsticker said:Over complicate things much? I'm all about simplicity. I think I'd rather replace the word physics with joys. Keep calm and catch bass. Perhaps next we should talk about breathing patterns while we fish. I can literally see this thread turning into your written book.
Amen to this.
I not only read bass forums but other species forums as well, I do pick up a tid bit here and there. I rely on what I have learned on the water, nothing has taught me more than my experiences over the years. If I find the fish or the hot bite everything just nicely falls into place, if I don't I struggle like a lot of people do.
I know from fishing the last 10 years my spots change constantly, not only day by day but hour by hour. The current changes, sometimes flows backwards against a sea wall (I change my tactics), how to fish certain wind conditions, water depth, etc, etc etc. You aren't going to learn this information on the web, you have to be there and learn on your own. 2 things I never confuse myself over, tying knots or the lure I'm going to use. I just know because I do this every single day.
Bankbeater reply :
This reminds me too much of work.
matuka reply :
I'm also a big subscriber in the KISS principle while on the water. But when I can't fish, hacking these kind of ideas around is more satisfying than say, changing line, cleaning the bilge or swapping out hooks.On 3/30/2015 at 11:25 AM, Hogsticker said:Over complicate things much? I'm all about simplicity. I think I'd rather replace the word physics with joys. Keep calm and catch bass. Perhaps next we should talk about breathing patterns while we fish. I can literally see this thread turning into your written book.
Felix77 reply :
One word when it comes to the fishing aspect ... leverage.
Just the right amount = putting the fish in the boat. Since everyone else is different the rod, reel, line lure combination will vary but if all equals out to you having the proper leverage on the the fish = You win.
Boating ... way over my head. Just know that if you drive off ... please let me know so I don't end up in the drink. 
J Francho reply :
Leverage is by far the most misunderstood topic.
Nice_Bass reply :
Now I am going to need a fulcrum on the boat and a couple pulleys to get the mechanical advantage of four. In doing this I will need to move my rod out so I need an 18 foot rod and with the 4 pulley system I will also need new gearing on the reel as I will need to take in 4 times the amount of line so just would need a reel to take in around 112 inches per turn to account for the Conservation of Energy in physics. When all said and done those pesky 4 pounder will now feel like 1 pounders.
Anyhow, I like the topic, just really don't have any input here when all said and done.
I do find fishing lines carry the most interesting things in regard to physics personally.
K_Mac reply :
On 3/30/2015 at 11:02 PM, Nice_Bass said:Now I am going to need a fulcrum on the boat and a couple pulleys to get the mechanical advantage of four. In doing this I will need to move my rod out so I need an 18 foot rod and with the 4 pulley system I will also need new gearing on the reel as I will need to take in 4 times the amount of line so just would need a reel to take in around 112 inches per turn to account for the Conservation of Energy in physics. When all said and done those pesky 4 pounder will now feel like 1 pounders.
Anyhow, I like the topic, just really don't have any input here when all said and done.
I do find fishing lines carry the most interesting things in regard to physics personally.
I like the way you think and expect 112 IPT reels to be available soon! I also think that from an applied physics view fishing lines may be the most interesting. The changes in materials and processing methods in lines, reels, and rods have certainly changed the sport for most of us.
Felix77 reply :
On 3/30/2015 at 10:29 PM, J Francho said:Leverage is by far the most misunderstood topic.
Too many variables ... easy to misunderstand. Maybe we can get ESPN Sports Science on this! Would be awesome to see a Hackney jig catch under the microscope. To contrast it would be nice to also see an Aaron Martens drop shot catch evaluated the same way. Wouldn't be a show without a KVD Crankbait or Spinnerbait bite to round out the evaluations.
J Francho reply :
I think the easy stuff to attack are contradictory idioms we all use and hear:
"Use a shorter rod to get leverage on a fish in close quarters."
"A longer rod gives you more leverage on a big fish."
Which is it? Depends on how you use the lever!
J Francho reply :
And Felix, everybody knows it's that erratic action that the big ones can't ignore. Lol.
WRB reply :
To understand the physics of bass look at Archimedies buoyancy and lever.
Longer rods can give the bass a advantage, they get the long end of the stick unless you move the fulcrum forward; 1 hand in front of the reel the other on the butt end.
The weight of anything in water is equal to it's displacement, boats, lures and bass.
Force is equal to velocity times mass, hook setting is all about speed.
The physics of sonar, might want to study how your unit works!
The modern baitcasting reel is a study in physics.
Tom
SirSnookalot reply :
Quote
1 hand in front of the reel the other on the butt end.
Saltwater fishing 101, a good reason why those rods have foregrips. Not uncommon to have a hand or 2 above the foregrip on the shaft for more leverage, quite helpful in pulling a fish away from a pylon for example. That same technique works when pulling a bass out of thick cover.
Nice_Bass reply :
not really arguing too much of any points in particular as I am not a physics guru however, a lever provides multiplication of force not multiplication of energy-force multiplied through equilibrium of torque. Torque of course being force applied x's perpendicular distance from the axis of rotation to the line of action of the force...or something like that (had to look it up)?
Force then more efficiently produces torque if force is exerted perpendicular to the rod. So does a rod held at waist level perpendicular to the water exert a better hook set than a rod with the tip held higher not perpendicular?
Anyhow- not sure I have ever needed more torque or force to turn a bass- only time I have ever needed it is when fishing for stripers on bass gear or the occasional 30# plus flat head when bass fishing. I know the salt guys need it as well, but bass...meh...
J Francho reply :
Most people's notion of a lever is the classic teeter-totter or Class I lever. A fishing rod is more often used like a Class III lever.
SirSnookalot reply :
Physics aside, all you really have to do is just reel the fish in.
Nice_Bass reply :
On 3/31/2015 at 10:36 PM, J Francho said:Most people's notion of a lever is the classic teeter-totter or Class I lever. A fishing rod is more often used like a Class III lever.
did not really think of it like that- very well put. More like a hammer or forearm. Interesting..
J Francho reply :
On 3/31/2015 at 10:44 PM, SirSnookalot said:Physics aside, all you really have to do is just reel the fish in.
It helps if you're in front of a lake instead of a computer.
John G reply :
On 3/31/2015 at 1:37 AM, J Francho said:I think the easy stuff to attack are contradictory idioms we all use and hear:
"Use a shorter rod to get leverage on a fish in close quarters."
"A longer rod gives you more leverage on a big fish."
Which is it? Depends on how you use the lever!
I took someones advice and I bought an 8' rod for Grouper fishing from a party boat. That was very bad advice!
SirSnookalot reply :
On 3/31/2015 at 10:52 PM, J Francho said:It helps if you're in front of a lake instead of a computer.
I agree.......winter and work up north, retirement and year round warm weather here in the south.
J Francho reply :
corn-on-the-rob reply :
On 3/31/2015 at 1:37 AM, J Francho said:I think the easy stuff to attack are contradictory idioms we all use and hear:
"Use a shorter rod to get leverage on a fish in close quarters."
"A longer rod gives you more leverage on a big fish."
Which is it? Depends on how you use the lever!
well said.
The other thing people don't take into consideration is that a longer rod is balanced differently than shorter rods hence longer/shorter handles creating different points of contact in which moments can be drastically changed with reel seat position/hand position. Also whether you anchor the butt of the rod (tucked against your body or under your arm) can make a huge difference in this application as well.
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