A-rig rod (having difficulty) 2024
Dirtyeggroll reply :
I am wondering about what kind of casting distance people are getting throwing A-rigs. Currently, I am using a Cabelas ZX Crankshaft 7'10" Heavy/Fast rated to 2.25 oz (https://www.cabelas.com/product/CABELAS-TOURNAMENT-ZX-CRANKSHAFT-RODS/1933023.uts?slotId=11) with a Curado K spooled up with 50-lb Sufix 832.
My current A-rig is a Yum Flashmob Jr. with 2 Z-man Diezel Minnows on CPS springs and 3 on 1/8th ounce heads. Yesterday when I went to toss it around I didn't really feel like I was getting much for casting distance (10-15 yards) and it really felt heavy on the end of the rod. I know its a heavier bait, but I am wondering about your experiences throwing A-rigs?
Do I need a rod rated higher? If so, I'd like to keep it under $100 and I was looking at the Dobyns Fury 795SB. I'm trying to determine, if a beefier rod will help, or if throwing A-rigs is just difficult. Thanks.
***Update March 12th, 2018***
Resolution: 100% operator error! I was not letting out enough line to hang the A-rig (I was only hanging 6-10”; letting out about 2’ helped tremendously!) and the tension knob was too tight (I was afraid to loosen it fearing a giant backlash with the heavy bait). The rod is quite the A-rig launcher now that I’ve got the technique down.
That damned bait monkey really wanted it to be the rod, but you all saved me!
Angry John reply :
Is the rod loading during the cast? Might want to weigh your total rig and see if your in the mid range of the rod. I would thing your at least and ounce to ounce and a half but thats just a guess. I see my fishing partner throw a lot more than 15 yards so i would say that is short. I just picked up the rod i plan to use so i have yet to start tossing them myself. If you watch the arig video's on tactical they seem to be going a lot further than you describe. Is your cast controls really tight on your real to deal with the heavier weight??? The wind resistance on rigs with blades is also a lot higher.
BassWhole! reply :
I ain't casting no umbrella, but if I were to ever try, I'd ascertain wether the rod was either not loading or being overwhelmed by the clothes hanger/Calder mobile contraption thingy....
Dirtyeggroll reply :
On 3/10/2018 at 4:20 AM, reason said:the clothes hanger/Calder mobile contraption thingy....
Not familiar with this?
bigfruits reply :
he is describing the salt water lure you are having issues with. 
what is the total weight of the bait? if under 2oz, sounds like your rod might be rated higher than it is ideal for.
BassWhole! reply :
On 3/10/2018 at 5:49 AM, Dirtyeggroll said:Not familiar with this?
https://www.google.com/search?q=calder+mobile&rlz=1C5CHFA_enUS777US777&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi85dHWnuDZAhXEu1MKHfVZCK4QsAQIJg&biw=1429&bih=690#imgrc=_i3n-zHJok2LUM:
bigfruits reply :
if you take a picture of the top half your rod held straight out parallel to the ground with the bait tied on, we could prob tell right away if its too heavy for the rod.
most heavy rods are rated up to 1 or 1.5 oz but not all rod companies have the same ratings. 2.5oz seems way high though for a heavy....
are you not going further than 15 yds because you are afraid to whip it hard because the bait feels heavy? a-rigs prob have more wind resistance than most baits but even with an under powered rod you should be getting more distance than that.
if you are new to baitcasters, loosen the tension knob and/or brakes.
bigturtle reply :
I throw 5 wire rigs with 1/8 and 3/16 oz heads on a H rod rated to 1.5oz
Dirtyeggroll reply :
On 3/10/2018 at 6:10 AM, bigfruits said:if you take a picture of the top half your rod held straight out parallel to the ground with the bait tied on, we could prob tell right away if its too heavy for the rod.
most heavy rods are rated up to 1 or 1.5 oz but not all rod companies have the same ratings. 2.5oz seems way high though for a heavy....
are you not going further than 15 yds because you are afraid to whip it hard because the bait feels heavy? a-rigs prob have more wind resistance than most baits but even with an under powered rod you should be getting more distance than that.
if you are new to baitcasters, loosen the tension knob and/or brakes.
I’ll try to take a video later.
Not new to baitcasting and I have played with the tension knob, cast control and centrifugal brakes (I might be a little hesitant to whip it since it seems to heavy).
I also have the 7’5” ZX Crankshaft in medium heavy. I might try it on that to test if the bait lighter than the rating for the 7’10 rod.
7’10 rod is rated 5/8-2 1/4 so my understanding is that the ideal weight should be about 1.4 ounces ((5/8+2 1/4)/2)
I will also try throwing a 130 plopper to compare.
bigfruits reply :
On 3/10/2018 at 6:31 AM, bigturtle said:I throw 5 wire rigs with 1/8 and 3/16 oz heads on a H rod rated to 1.5oz
you think the crank rod he is using is too slow? sounding more like a reel issue.
how does your reel do with 1/2oz or so baits?
bigturtle reply :
On 3/10/2018 at 6:32 AM, bigfruits said:you think the crank rod he is using is too slow? sounding more like a reel issue.
how does your reel do with 1/2oz or so baits?
I never used any cabelas rods so I dont know, but 2.1/4oz seems a bit too heavy. My reel is a zillion sv tw, handles baits down to 3/16oz no problem.
Finnz922 reply :
If you do end up looking at new rods. Look at
IRG7104AB “Bama Rig Special”
This is not another swimbait rod. we needed a rod that would be perfect to throw all variations of the umbrella rig. It will throw a three arm bait with 1/8 heads all the way up to a five arm bait rigged with 1/2 oz heads as far as you want. Its responsive tip allows for smooth hook ups and has plenty of backbone to land multiple fish at once.
Length:7’10″
Lure weight:1-4oz
Line weight:50-70 braid
Power: Med. Heavy
Action: Moderate
bigfruits reply :
On 3/10/2018 at 6:36 AM, bigturtle said:My reel is a zillion sv tw, handles baits down to 3/16oz no problem.
sorry, meant to ask OP about reel. maybe if its new and hes only thrown a-rig theres an issue with it he doesnt know about.
BassWhole! reply :
On 3/10/2018 at 6:10 AM, bigfruits said:are you not going further than 15 yds because you are afraid to whip it hard because the bait feels heavy? a-rigs prob have more wind resistance than most baits but even with an under powered rod you should be getting more distance than that.
This brings up a good point. You can't whip larger baits the way you can smaller ones, its more like a lob. You want to use your lower body, and load the rod lower down. We routinely cast 2 -8 oz lures for salt water fish (but never an umbrella, that's just silliness) so it's second nature.
Dirtyeggroll reply :
On 3/10/2018 at 6:37 AM, Finnz922 said:If you do end up looking at new rods. Look at
IRG7104AB “Bama Rig Special”
This is not another swimbait rod. we needed a rod that would be perfect to throw all variations of the umbrella rig. It will throw a three arm bait with 1/8 heads all the way up to a five arm bait rigged with 1/2 oz heads as far as you want. Its responsive tip allows for smooth hook ups and has plenty of backbone to land multiple fish at once.
Length:7’10″
Lure weight:1-4oz
Line weight:50-70 braid
Power: Med. Heavy
Action: Moderate
Thanks for the suggestion. Not necessarily looking for a “dedicated” A-rig rod and that one is a bit out of my price range. Surely there are several rods that are good (necessarily fantastic) at throwing A-rigs.
On 3/10/2018 at 6:38 AM, bigfruits said:sorry, meant to ask OP about reel. maybe if its new and hes only thrown a-rig theres an issue with it he doesnt know about.
Could be. I haven’t thrown any thing else with it but the A-rig.
fishwizzard reply :
On 3/10/2018 at 6:46 AM, reason said:You want to use your lower body, and load the rod lower down.
Even just throwing a 2oz swimbait, the difference in comfort between a lob and a normal cast was unbelievable to me. My upper back would get all knotted up after a few hours before I embraced the lob.
Dirtyeggroll reply :
On 3/10/2018 at 6:46 AM, reason said:You want to use your lower body, and load the rod lower down.
On 3/10/2018 at 10:27 AM, fishwizzard said:Even just throwing a 2oz swimbait, the difference in comfort between a lob and a normal cast was unbelievable to me. My upper back would get all knotted up after a few hours before I embraced the lob.
Tried “the lob” yesterday and it seemed to help but it seemed like the bait just wanted to slam down in front of me, which now that I think about it, is the description of throwing a light bait on a rod that’s too stiff. Despite this, it seemed like the a-rig was putting a lot of bend in the rod when held out parallel. So I am not 100% convinced (and the fact that I don’t want to mess with exchanging this rod or getting another. I definitely want to be 100% certain before I mess with all of that).
VolFan reply :
That sounds like a reel set-up problem more so than a rod problem. You could lob that on an actual broomstick and get more distance. Also- check to make sure your line's not wrapped or looped through a guide or threaded through a guide base (been there on all of those).
VolFan reply :
One more - check you line to make sure it's not crossed after that 10-15 yards. If you spool braid as tight as you need to, sometimes it can dig in.
Ben Miller reply :
On 3/10/2018 at 10:57 AM, Dirtyeggroll said:You throw 5-wires with 1/8oz heads?
Normally the top two baits are 2.8" Keitech Swing Impact Fat's with 1/8 qz and then the other 3 are the 4.8" with 3/16 oz. Rides nicely in the water
Dirtyeggroll reply :
On 3/10/2018 at 10:56 AM, VolFan said:That sounds like a reel set-up problem more so than a rod problem. You could lob that on an actual broomstick and get more distance. Also- check to make sure your line's not wrapped or looped through a guide or threaded through a guide base (been there on all of those).
Line is not crossed or wrapped in the guides.
It actually feels a lot like trying to toss a 1.5 crankbait with my MH Veritas 2.0. I can throw a 1.5 sidearm with the Veritas but if I try to cast overhead it plops almost right in front of me.
I’m not quite talented enough to throw the A-rig sidearm with any power.
I am kind of hoping someone else has tried this rod and can confirm I just need practice or that the rod is not suited haha.
I won’t get to play with it anymore until tomorrow.
On 3/10/2018 at 11:03 AM, Ben Miller said:Normally the top two baits are 2.8" Keitech Swing Impact Fat's with 1/8 qz and then the other 3 are the 4.8" with 3/16 oz. Rides nicely in the water
So maybe just a touch heavier than my A-rig setup with 1/8 oz heads.
VolFan reply :
From what you've said above, I'd almost guarantee its not the rod. You may just need to find the right stroke.
bigfruits reply :
On 3/10/2018 at 10:46 AM, Dirtyeggroll said:
Tried “the lob” yesterday and it seemed to help but it seemed like the bait just wanted to slam down in front of me, which now that I think about it, is the description of throwing a light bait on a rod that’s too stiff. Despite this, it seemed like the a-rig was putting a lot of bend in the rod when held out parallel. So I am not 100% convinced (and the fact that I don’t want to mess with exchanging this rod or getting another. I definitely want to be 100% certain before I mess with all of that).
slamming down in front of you sounds like the rod isnt loading but you saying it feels heavy and bends the rod quite a bit kind of counters that...
when you cast the rod is it loading well? the rod should bend as you swing it and kind of help "catapult" the bait at the end of the swing.
i think if you do these things below you will find your answer.
1. cast a-rig with your MH crankshaft rod.
2. put the curado on a lighter rod and cast a 1/2oz spinnerbait. are you getting the distance you expect?
3. cast a 1/2oz spinnerbait on your current a-rig set up. did it go further than the a-rig?
CroakHunter reply :
This may or may not help...I have the 7'5 crankshaft rod and Have thrown 10xd's on it. And although the retrieve was less than ideal it handled casting them great. Those rods are over powered and under rated. I'd say give it a try with a catapult/lob cast in your 7'5. Also make sure your reel is dialed in to the best possible specs.
bigfruits reply :
couple more things, not sure if theyve been mentioned.
you might be releasing the bait too late in your swing.
put some muscle into it. not saying youre weak, just that you might be scared to break the tip.
do an exaggerated lob, putting plenty of power into it but dont whip it fast as to break the tip. do a constant acceleration. like casting 4oz of lead from the surf.
sorry if this is basic, not trying to insult. i think a lot of bass anglers arent used to casting larger baits and the different type of cast needed to get distance.
fishwizzard reply :
The other advice I would give is to look around on YouTube try to find a video that show someone casting a swimbait with a nice wide full body shot. It took watching a bunch of the TB videos on a rainy day before I really figured out what I was doing wrong in my early attempts at lob casting.
That, and maybe go out and buy a big lead sinker that weighs the same as your a-rig to see if you can cast that with your current combo. If you can't get any distance out of an aerodynamic sinker, then something is really wrong.
Dirtyeggroll reply :
On 3/10/2018 at 9:32 PM, bigfruits said:couple more things, not sure if theyve been mentioned.
you might be releasing the bait too late in your swing.
put some muscle into it. not saying youre weak, just that you might be scared to break the tip.
do an exaggerated lob, putting plenty of power into it but dont whip it fast as to break the tip. do a constant acceleration. like casting 4oz of lead from the surf.
sorry if this is basic, not trying to insult. i think a lot of bass anglers arent used to casting larger baits and the different type of cast needed to get distance.
Not an insult at all. This is one of the questions I was trying to answer, something along the lines of:
“Does throwing an A-rig require a different technique than other baits?” Or can it be overcome with the right rod?
On 3/10/2018 at 10:14 PM, fishwizzard said:The other advice I would give is to look around on YouTube try to find a video that show someone casting a swimbait with a nice wide full body shot. It took watching a bunch of the TB videos on a rainy day before I really figured out what I was doing wrong in my early attempts at lob casting.
That, and maybe go out and buy a big lead sinker that weighs the same as your a-rig to see if you can cast that with your current combo. If you can't get any distance out of an aerodynamic sinker, then something is really wrong.
I’ve thrown big ploppers (on a different rod, 7’ H Daiwa Aird) without having to change my casting technique, and boy can they be launched, which is one of the reasons I was thinking it might be the rod. When I get home later this evening I’ve got a whole list of suggestions to try. I’m gonna start by weighing the A-rig. Thank you all! Will report back my results.
Catt reply :
Just a dumb coonass's opinion it sounds like operator error!
Dirtyeggroll reply :
On 3/10/2018 at 10:54 PM, Catt said:Just a dumb coonass's opinion it sounds like operator error!
Half of me hopes it is operator error because then I won’t be better suited with a different rod and that’s cheap to fix but takes some time and the other half of me hopes it isn’t operator so I can just pair up the right rod and be ready to go without having have to learn a new way to cast.
Catt reply :
On 3/10/2018 at 11:09 PM, Dirtyeggroll said:Half of me hopes it is operator error because then I won’t be better suited with a different rod and that’s cheap to fix but takes some time and the other half of me hopes it isn’t operator so I can just pair up the right rod and be ready to go without having have to learn a new way to cast.
As mentioned earlier most anglers not accustom to throwing Alabama Rigs or Carolina Rigs for that matter will struggle mightily in the beginning.
These 2 Rigs require a lot technique in casting, ya not gonna just pick it up & do good out the hole!
Practice a lot & see if you can improve through technique first, then you can better determine what rod suits your techniques.
Dirtyeggroll reply :
On 3/10/2018 at 11:18 PM, Catt said:
As mentioned earlier most anglers not accustom to throwing Alabama Rigs or Carolina Rigs for that matter will struggle mightily in the beginning.
These 2 Rigs require a lot technique in casting, ya not gonna just pick it up & do good out the hole!
Practice a lot & see if you can improve through technique first, then you can better determine what rod suits your techniques.
I’m sure there is at least some learning I need to do to cast an A-rig well independent of the rod... but since I have a few other rods that are powered differently (and since I’m stubborn) I am going to try a few other rods first since it’s pretty easy, I have the right controls and I will know immediately if it helps. I’d rather hone my technique after I rule out the rod since I have the opportunity. I’m sure I could learn how to Happy Gilmore the A-rig with about any rod, but I don’t feel that’s the most efficient (although Happy was quite the ringer).
I’ve already mentioned this but it just reminds me of trying to throw 1.5 squarebills on a MH Veritas which was not working well. I did practice and practice with the MH Veritas rod and figured how to cast them better (but not good) with that rod. As soon as I switched to lower power rod I could cast those 1.5’s like I’d expect too, about 1.5-2x as far and much more accurately.
WRB reply :
It's your casting technique.
Have you tried casting a 1 oz spinnerbait with your combo? A-rigs have a lot air resistance when they include blades like a flash mob.
1. You shouldn't ever whip or snap cast a bait casting reel, spinning reel it's OK.
2. Go through the basic spool tension adjustment for any other lure weight; the lure should fall free on slightly controlled tension and the spool should stop when the lure hits the ground without loose line.
3. Make a 2 handed over head cast with about 2' to 2 1/2' of line from the lure from the rod tip. Keep very slight thumb pressure on the spool just enough to keep line from loosening during the cast.
You should be able to cast 75' to 90' without any issues. With practice you can loosen the spool tension slightly and casting distance will improve.
Tom
Dirtyeggroll reply :
On 3/10/2018 at 11:57 PM, WRB said:It's your casting technique.
Have you tried casting a 1 oz spinnerbait with your combo?
I lied, the first thing I am going to do is weigh the A-rig and throw a more aerodynamic bait of similar weight.
Heres my troubleshooting plan:
1. Weigh A-rig and try similarly weighted aerodynamic weight on the current rod. If no improvement in distance with the aerodynamic bait then on to the next.
2. Adjust reel. If no improvement move on to next.
3. Try adding or taking weight away from the A-rig. If no improvement then move on to next.
4. Try throwing A-rig with a 7’5 ZX rod and with a 7’6 Skeet Reese Carolina rig rod. If no improvement with any rod then move on to next.
5. It’s not at all the rod (I am already convinced it’s not 100% the rod and there’s room for me to improve).
I 100% plan to refine my technique on tossing the A-rig regardless of the results of the troubleshooting. With all of the other techniques I use, I feel like I have learned to make the rod do the work. My current setup and/or technique does not feel this way for the A-rig.
Now I just need to get home so I can try all of these things and stop leaving you all in suspsense. Haha.
Shimano_1 reply :
I've thrown the rig on the 7'9 zx umbrella rig/swimbait rod for a couple years now. It handles it all well. Once the rig bite slows I throw larger swimbaits on the same rod. For the sale price that can be found frequently, in my humble opinion, the zx line of rods simply cant be beat.
Dirtyeggroll reply :
On 3/11/2018 at 1:19 AM, Shimano_1 said:I've thrown the rig on the 7'9 zx umbrella rig/swimbait rod for a couple years now. It handles it all well. Once the rig bite slows I throw larger swimbaits on the same rod. For the sale price that can be found frequently, in my humble opinion, the zx line of rods simply cant be beat.
Maybe if the 7’10 ZX Crankshaft doesn’t workout i’ll trade it in for then ZX Umbrela rig rod. I originally got the 7’10 Crankshaft to throw the plopper 130 and was hoping it could serve multiple purpose as an A-rig and big swimbait rod.
Shimano_1 reply :
That's probably not a bad idea at all. They're on sale right now for 80 bucks was considering grabbing another mysef. Good Luck
Catt reply :
How does one decide if it's rod or operator?
How long do one use a rod before eliminating it?
What does throwing an aerodynamic lure have to do with throwing an un-aerodynamic lure...I can tell ya now they ain't gonna be the same.
Definitely fine tune the reel
Definitely adjust the weights
BassWhole! reply :
You guys are giving me a headache.
Dirtyeggroll reply :
On 3/11/2018 at 2:04 AM, Catt said:How does one decide if it's rod or operator?
How long do one use a rod before eliminating it?
What does throwing an aerodynamic lure have to do with throwing an un-aerodynamic lure...I can tell ya now they ain't gonna be the same.
Definitely fine tune the reel
Definitely adjust the weights
All based on feel . If a different rod feels better then it’s the rod, if not then it’s just the technique. A few casts can tell me if a rod feels right. If several rods don’t feel right then the rod doesn’t have much to do with it.
If a similar weight doesn’t plop right down in front of me then I’ll suspect it’s a matter of drag and not weight/loading up.
On 3/11/2018 at 2:13 AM, reason said:You guys are giving me a headache.
This is the problem with the theoretical. I should have stopped replying until I had a chance to test it. The fact is I am bored and this is an easy horse to beat.
Dirtyeggroll reply :
Resolution: 100% operator error! I was not letting out enough line to hang the A-rig (I was only hanging 6-10”; letting out about 2’ helped tremendously!) and the tension knob was too tight (I was afraid to loosen it fearing a giant backlash with the heavy bait). The rod is quite the A-rig launcher now that I’ve got the technique down.
That damned bait monkey really wanted it to be the rod, but you all saved me!
VolFan reply :
I. Am. Shocked.
but I would've bought another rod anyway!????
Dirtyeggroll reply :
On 3/13/2018 at 8:25 AM, VolFan said:I. Am. Shocked.
but I would've bought another rod anyway!????
Trust me, me too. Pretty humbling.
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