The Mistake We All Make. 2024
WRB reply :
Doesn't matter how long you have been bass fishing or what your skill levels is, we all make the same mistake. We start of the day or night by fishing memories, using lures, presentations and locations that worked the last time we caught bass. If nothing on the lake has changed, this may work, however lakes tend to change by the hour and expecting the bass to be where they were and eat what you offered the last time you fished, you are making a mistake......if you continue to fish memories without success.
I am no different and pre plan my next fishing outing, tie on lures that I believe will work. What I have learned over decades of bass fishing is; don't fire up the engine and run to where I fished the previous outing.
My routine to prevent fishing memories is check the lakes conditions at the moment as the boat is launched. Look at the water color, clarity, temperature, meter around the marina for sights of baitfish and bass. Put a starting plan together based on what you know at that moment and make changes based on your instinctive feelings from what you learn during the day or night. Make new memories each outing and put the past behind you.
Good fishing.
Tom
jbw252 reply :
Sage advice. Thanks.
Shane J reply :
Whatever spices you put on it, is up to you, but it simply isn't true. To say that we "all" make that mistake when we hit the water, is pretty ignorant. Maybe you all in Cali do, or something else, but I know and fish with plenty of people, including myself, who do not have any pre-conceived notions as to where the fish are, or what they'll be eating from outing to outing, even if it's the same lake, same day. Not saying it's not a common mistake, because it is, but a vast generalization like that,is just wrong. Also, sometimes, based on knowledge of fish behavior, Starting on a certain proven point or whatever, is part of that game plan, but it's not just because we caught 'em there before, it's because time of day, baitfish activity, time of year, weather conditions, water clarity, etc, etc, all came into play, and that's what I came up with.
jeremyryanwebb reply :
My wifes uncle refuses to tie baits on until he is in his boat looking at the current conditions. He said it makes him think through location and presentation before he is sucked in by fishing memories. Might take a couple minutes longer, but he's retired and on the lake 5 days a week....he's in no hurry ha
shimmy reply :
On 3/21/2014 at 11:57 PM, WRB said:Doesn't matter how long you have been bass fishing or what your skill levels is, we all make the same mistake. We start of the day or night by fishing memories, using lures, presentations and locations that worked the last time we caught bass. If nothing on the lake has changed, this may work, however lakes tend to change by the hour and expecting the bass to be where they were and eat what you offered the last time you fished, you are making a mistake......if you continue to fish memories without success.
I am no different and pre plan my next fishing outing, tie on lures that I believe will work. What I have learned over decades of bass fishing is; don't fire up the engine and run to where I fished the previous outing.
My routine to prevent fishing memories is check the lakes conditions at the moment as the boat is launched. Look at the water color, clarity, temperature, meter around the marina for sights of baitfish and bass. Put a starting plan together based on what you know at that moment and make changes based on your instinctive feelings from what you learn during the day or night. Make new memories each outing and put the past behind you.
Good fishing.
Tom
Solid advice
Mainebass1984 reply :
I make my game plan for the day depending on the conditions that are forecast for the day. I might have to fine tune this a bit when I get to the lake but based on previous experiences given for the condition, time of year and lake I am fishing I always have a game plan before I make my first cast. I adjust as the day goes on. Every time I go fishing I try and build on my previous experiences, to a point from memory, on what has worked for me under specific conditions before. From memory and experience when I find water temps around 43-47 degrees in the spring I know from memory that on a specific body of water crawfish will be coming out of their winter burrows along clay banks and that a select few lures in specific colors will produce extremely well. It took a long time to figure it out for that lake but I will certainly remember it when given the same conditions. Fishing to the conditions is important. Based on the conditions presented to you, you then you can use your previous experiences to determine what to use. Conditions can chance very quickly. Adjusting to those conditions separates the average fisherman from extremely good fisherman.
Catt reply :
Eliminate your history you've eliminated your experience!
All I have to plan my next trip is present weather conditions, present seasonal patterns, and my past experiences!
I've said before, I fish some of same structure I found 42 yrs ago, the structure (bottom contour) does not change, the available timber does not change (wood does not rot under water). What does change is the vegetation, which changes the contor of the outer weed line, these changes happen every year but the bass are still there. I do this on every body if water I fish.
Oh yea I'm also throwing the same techniques and lure!
Bassguytom reply :
Good advice. I fish from memory sometimes and it does not always pay off. Your post reminds me to read the conditions and make changes if need be. I use my experience to choose what technique and lure to use.
Ratherbfishing reply :
I don't think there's anything wrong from fishing from memory IF you don't persist once it is proven incorrect (for that particular day). I'd waste a lot of time trying to relearn everything if I ignored everything I'd already experienced.
AQUA VELVA reply :
You can make adjustments for a number of variables but if you have been fishing long enough and have a fair memory , you will generally find fish where you would expect them to be on any given day and set of conditions.
Sam reply :
Tom, I agree with you to a point.
What Catt added sums up my thoughts.
However, I am so old that I can hide my Easter eggs so it really does not matter.
WRB reply :
Fishing memories doesn't mean loosing your memory or forgetting what you know about bass behavior. Fishing memories is tying on that black/blue jig and pounding the bank when the bass are on a A-rig bite or a swimbait bite, lures few anglers try, until the lures become well known. It took over 20 years before lures like swimbaits and presentations like drop shot found there way east, the A-rig was an adaption of salt water spreader rigs that went from east to west. The anglers that innovated the "new" presentations didn't fish memories, they tried something new.
If you always tie on the same lures and fish the same structure or cover you are missing a lot bass, I know becuase my old forgotton hair jigs with pork trailers are my go to lure. When I said all bass anglers make this mistake, it's true. Be honest with yourself, learning is a intellectual process.
I also fish the same lakes for over 50 years and still manage to keep up to date and still catch giant bass each year.
Tom
Shane J reply :
K, dude. Kinda sounds like you're back tracking a little bit, probably because 15 people in a row didn't say "oh, that's so true", or "Wow, such great insight! What would I do without that infinite piece of knowledge?" Oh, and, What giant bass, by the way?
Catt reply :
All these innovations you mentioned are nothing new, someone remembered it worked before.
The original draw to swim baits is its "swimming tail", H&H Cocahoe Minnows have had that basic tail design for 50 years. (Saltwater lure)
The A-Rig is nothing more than an umbrilla rig also used in salt water for years.
The Drop Shot is nothing more than a Catfish Rig, Choaker Rig used in saltwater.
All I see is someone's memory of saltwater rigs being tried with success in fresh water.
One would be foolish to make decisions not based on memories!
doyle8218 reply :
ok, a little warm in here...again.
rippin-lips reply :
I'm just laughing at the Shane J comment towards Tom about "what gaint bass?" Popcorn anyone?
mjseverson24 reply :
i try to avoid fishing memories, but sometimes the old spots work pretty well... i think this has a lot to do with why it is hard for a local to win on his home waters on a top level circuit like the FLW or the elite series...
Mitch
WRB reply :
Catt, I have a lot of respect for your knowledge, you and I fish in a similar manner and we both tend to fish memories, we are set in our way of doing things. Fishing memories isn't forgetting what you know where the fish should be located, it's using the wrong lure at the right time because we had success at a prior time, under similar conditions and refused to make a change.On 3/22/2014 at 4:40 AM, Catt said:All these innovations you mentioned are nothing new, someone remembered it worked before.
The original draw to swim baits is its "swimming tail", H&H Cocahoe Minnows have had that basic tail design for 50 years. (Saltwater lure)
The A-Rig is nothing more than an umbrilla rig also used in salt water for years.
The Drop Shot is nothing more than a Catfish Rig, Choaker Rig used in saltwater.
All I see is someone's memory of saltwater rigs being tried with success in fresh water.
One would be foolish to make decisions not based on memories!
Swimbaits date back to the early 30's with the Creek Chub Wiggle Fish, drop shot was also a dropper rig or stacking rig or ganion rig in salt water, the Japanese introduced today's drop shot rig using light tackle, give them credit where it's due.
The west coast swimbaits started with Worm King, then Ken Huddleston's dad with the wooden Trout, Basstrix with the hollow body swimbait, that bass anglers use today The first boot tail may have been the Sassy Shad as a bass lure.
Being a salt water angler I have trolled spreader rigs for tuna over 30 years, you could've cast a spreader or umbrella rig until the A-rig was designed by a fresh water Alabama striper angler.
The point is fishing memories eliminates using new lures until someone kicks arsh winning tournaments while you and I are jig fishing because that is what we comfortable with.
Tom
Mainebass1984 reply :
Without a doubt trying a new spot or fishing a new lure can pay off big time. I try and look for new spots every time I go fishing.
deaknh03 reply :
If you hit the water and use the same lure, in the same spots and expect the same results, your wasting your time. I think the majority of anglers, and I'm talking about most of the guys here, guys who fish as much as they can, and want to learn and catch more fish, don't fish like robots. Most guys develop a plan for the day, bring appropriate rods and tackle, and fish the spots that weather and temp dictate should be holding fish, then work from there. Saying most guys fish with their memory stuck on previous success is just plain incorrect.
Catt reply :
Dude I'll give credit where it's due!
Even your beloved Dee Thomas admits his idea for flipping was nothing more than Tule Dipping! (His own words) He asked what he needed to do to make this technique tournament legal, the answer add a reel!
Grizzn N Bassin reply :
Good stuff
AQUA VELVA reply :
Kinda looks like that bass Tom is holding would qualify as a giant bass ,at least here in MI. Dude.
Shane J reply :
Ask him where he caught it. Actually, ask him if he even caught it (that's a better question).
Darren. reply :
Clash of the Titans!
Good info all around!
Mainebass1984 reply :
On 3/22/2014 at 7:11 AM, Shane J said:Ask him where he caught it. Actually, ask him if he even caught it (that's a better question).
He must have caught it ? right ?
deaknh03 reply :
On 3/22/2014 at 8:25 AM, Mainebass1984 said:He must have caught it ? right ?
Maybe WRB can clear it up.
Catt reply :
Tell y'all what I'll do to be fair I'll mark every piece for structure on a map of Toledo Bend that I ever fished. Y'all will not be allowed to fish those spots but I can only fish those spots.
Wanna see if memory wins!
I'll even give you a month to pre-fish!
Shane J reply :
On 3/22/2014 at 8:25 AM, Mainebass1984 said:He must have caught it ? right ?
Nope.
FlipnLimits reply :
Gentlemen
Tom is correct, to a degree, in his dissemination of fishing in the memory. It was mentioned that we should observe water conditions, weather, etc. but one thing not mentioned was this applies if it was your first time out in a month or a year, etc. This statement does apply to a casual fisherman or maybe us when visiting a new body of water.
Most of us here fish very often and we already know what the water temp and conditions are when we head out on the water. Barring a torrential rain or drastic weather change, not much will change in 3 days or day to day, water-wise. Some of us are out every 3,4,5, days or more and if I had to check the water conditions that often, then I haven't done my time on the water, justice. I always start the day with certain baits and patterns, because experience tell me to. Fishing anew every outing is a fallacy. If this was the way to do it, no bass fisherman would ever practice for a tournament.
New memories arise from old experiences. For example....I found myself fishing one of my favorite froggin' stretches and I saw some baitfish busting the surface. I assumed it was White Bass running 'em up but I decided to cast a plastic jerkbait toward the baitfish and a couple jerks later I was setting the hook on a bass. Memory made! Now I always throw the jerkbait in that area when I see similar circumstances.
FL
AQUA VELVA reply :
Well, lets ask him. Tom did you catch that fish your holding?
Mainebass1984 reply :
On 3/22/2014 at 9:12 AM, FlipnLimits said:
Tom is correct, to a degree, in his dissemination of fishing in the memory. It was mentioned that we should observe water conditions, weather, etc. but one thing not mentioned was this applies if it was your first time out in a month or a year, etc. This statement does apply to a casual fisherman or maybe us when visiting a new body of water.
Most of us here fish very often and we already know what the water temp and conditions are when we head out on the water. Barring a torrential rain or drastic weather change, not much will change in 3 days or day to day, water-wise. Some of us are out every 3,4,5, days or more and if I had to check the water conditions that often, then I haven't done my time on the water, justice. I always start the day with certain baits and patterns, because experience tell me to.
Conditions can change very quickly. The conditions we encounter aren't just water temperature and water level. Wind direction, barometric pressure, frontal passage, just to name a couple, should all be factors when considering conditions. A lot can change in 3 days. The conditions may change during your time on the water. For example you may be out fishing and its is warm, calm wind and cloudy. A front will pass through the wind will pick up and now it is sunny, windy and the temperature has dropped 10 degrees. As the conditions change so do what the bass are doing.
FlipnLimits reply :
On 3/22/2014 at 9:35 AM, Mainebass1984 said:Conditions can change very quickly. The conditions we encounter aren't just water temperature and water level. Wind direction, barometric pressure, frontal passage, just to name a couple, should all be factors when considering conditions. A lot can change in 3 days. The conditions may change during your time on the water. For example you may be out fishing and its is warm, calm wind and cloudy. A front will pass through the wind will pick up and now it is sunny, windy and the temperature has dropped 10 degrees. As the conditions change so do what the bass are doing.
Of course, all true. And what do you do? You go with your past experience in such situations, not assess the lake from a point of view where you've never seen it before. You're in VT?, so you see brutal cold fronts like I do. What do you do? Abandon 2 days of practice? I go right where I caught them the day before and you know what, they are usually there. If not, then subtle changes are made.
Shane J reply :
Guess we don't need waaypoints, either, I suppose?
Mainebass1984 reply :
On 3/22/2014 at 9:46 AM, FlipnLimits said:Of course, all true. And what do you do? You go with your past experience in such situations, not assess the lake from a point of view where you've never seen it before. You're in VT?, so you see brutal cold fronts like I do. What do you do? Abandon 2 days of practice? I go right where I caught them the day before and you know what, they are usually there. If not, then subtle changes are made.
I would rather not abandon days of practice... but some times it must be done. If its not working because conditions have changed then I change my approach as well, it could be a lure, presentation, location... A cold front up here in New England is a game changer. Separate's the men from the boys come tournament day
Mainebass1984 reply :
On 3/22/2014 at 10:00 AM, Shane J said:Guess we don't need waaypoints, either, I suppose?
waypoints ? what are those ?
Brian Needham reply :
geez this thread quickly went total cluster.....
fishing history is something we all do whether you want to admit it or not....... even Elite Series Pros have said the best thing they have done is delete all their waypoints.
FlipnLimits reply :
On 3/22/2014 at 10:01 AM, Mainebass1984 said:I would rather not abandon days of practice... but some times it must be done. If its not working because conditions have changed then I change my approach as well, it could be a lure, presentation, location... A cold front up here in New England is a game changer. Separate's the men from the boys come tournament day
Yes, sometimes it must be done, but after I've proven it must be done. I fish just over 20 tournaments per year and one thing I've learned is not to abandon what worked yesterday and don't leave biting fish. Cold fronts can make Bigger bass bite in the same area you were catching keepers the day before. Experience is the only thing that creates consistency! Anyone can have a great day, not many always have good days. Of course there's the occasional bad day 
Brian Needham reply :
case in point...........last years road trip.
I been catching them all week on a jig and shakeyhead, then I fish with Glenn......... well after Glenn had caught a couple DOZEN fish with a senko, I quit fishing what worked YESTERDAY/HISTORY and started catching fish today.
Alonerankin2 reply :
Yea Iam with you fellers!
Slade House reply :
Fishing at Lake Casitas requires you to constantly adapt and change far more than anywhere i grew up fishing (Potomac River, Lake Anna) . I fish at the same lake as Tom and his advice is solid. As for Casitas, Top 5 Bag weights in the last tourney 2 weeks ago were 23.8, 22.7, 22.3, 22.1, 20.6 for 5 fish in 1 event. Hell, I caught a 6.2 and a 5.1 this week, and 2 months ago caught a 8.5 on a monday, and a 7.6 on a wednesday. So when he says he caught a 16lber, he means it.
Shane J reply :
I'm just trying to figure out how a few average bags, and a couple slightly above average fish (for Cali), have anything to do with the topic he was talking about. He may have caught a 16 at some point in his life, however, it was probably off a bed, and 30 years ago. Bottom line is, he hasn't added anything to any conversation, that any goon couldn't just look up on Wikipedia, and hasn't posted a pic of a big fish in ions, maybe even ever on here, because he just doesn't catch them like he wants you all to think. Where's he at in the State Vs State, then? I bet he couldn't break the 50% mark.
nascar2428 reply :
When ever I go fishing on familiar water, I always rely on my past experiences(Memory)to start the day. Fishing logs and waypoints are great tools for documenting your past experiences(memory).They are great starting points as long as similar conditions exist. We all know that fishing conditions change by the minute and it is your past experiences(memory) that help you to adjust to those conditions. And it is our willingness to experiment that creates new fishing experiences(memories).
mnbassman23 reply :
On 3/22/2014 at 7:48 PM, nascar2428 said:When ever I go fishing on familiar water, I always rely on my past experiences(Memory)to start the day. Fishing logs and waypoints are great tools for documenting your past experiences(memory).They are great starting points as long as similar conditions exist. We all know that fishing conditions change by the minute and it is your past experiences(memory) that help you to adjust to those conditions. And it is our willingness to experiment that creates new fishing experiences(memories).
X2 well put.
The Rooster reply :
Why are you outright attacking him? He started a thread in good faith about bass fishing, stated his view on the subject, mirroring something I've even read that KVD himself agrees with, and the first thing you did was challenge it and now you're basically accusing him of being a fake. There's no need for the animosity here.On 3/22/2014 at 7:36 PM, Shane J said:I'm just trying to figure out how a few average bags, and a couple slightly above average fish (for Cali), have anything to do with the topic he was talking about. He may have caught a 16 at some point in his life, however, it was probably off a bed, and 30 years ago. Bottom line is, he hasn't added anything to any conversation, that any goon couldn't just look up on Wikipedia, and hasn't posted a pic of a big fish in ions, maybe even ever on here, because he just doesn't catch them like he wants you all to think. Where's he at in the State Vs State, then? I bet he couldn't break the 50% mark.
GOODNIGHT IRENE!
J Francho reply :
I don't think it's necessary to question Tom's credibility, nor do I think it's relevant to the discussion. I've had the pleasure if chatting with him offline, and based on our discussions, he knows what he knows, and his input is as welcome as anyone's. Bottom line, he knows what's up, and more importantly, he's an old dude that can share some of the history. I like my old guys, and value their stories and experience. They might not be dialed into what is right now, but that doesn't mean their experience is irrelevant.
To the original point…
I can't tell you how many times I've heard this at the end of the day: "I caught the heck out of them the past two days, but couldn't buy a bite today…" or, "you should have been here yesterday…" at the ramp, weigh in, coffee joint, etc.
We're talking about fishing the past. I love fishing against guys that don't know how to prefish, or manage their spots over a two or three day event. Where are your fish? You sore lipped them and took them on a boat ride!
Changing conditions…there are things that occur, sometimes overnight, that dramatically change the game. This is key in one day tournaments. Guys come in on a Thursday, and get their plan and spots. By Saturday, it can be completely different. Do what you did on Thursday - fish the past - and you fall on your face. It's happened to me.
Now, having fished in changing or inclement conditions will help, if you know how to find a bit in those conditions. This is the fishing in the past that Catt, and others talk about, but it's not that same as hitting same spots over and over. Let's face it, the guys that are citing experience are better than average sticks, and know when to fish what. They've made the new memories Tom refers to.
Case in point, I grew up on Port Bay, and I ALWAYS fish the outlet. When I was younger, if I didn't catch, it was just a bad day. Later, I started to put things together that tied good fishing in that spot with certain environmental conditions. That spot always holds a few fish, and the point on the east side is a well beaten community hole, and not just for bass. But, in certain situations, and I've done it twice in tournaments, you can beat green fish from frogs, jigs, senkos under docks, with brown fish that are suddenly where they never are. It's not a spot I rely on anymore. In fact, since I've fished this water for over 30 years, I don't rely on anything there.
You might call that fishing your memory, but it's beyond that. If I fished that spot every tournament, I may never win, or I may luck out with smallies. You aren't going to find too many big green fish, though they are right around the corner in a totally different habitat. One I may have never found either, had I not decided to try something different, and make new memories, experiences.
All Tom is saying is leave your comfort zone.
WRB reply :
Off topic:On 3/22/2014 at 9:16 AM, AQUA VELVA said:Well, lets ask him. Tom did you catch that fish your holding?
I didn't put the picture of my bass mount in the avatar, another member did that. I aviod posting pictures because someone will be jealous and question it's validity. The avatar bass is my PB and was caught at lake Castaic on March 3, 1994 on my hair jig with pork rind trailer (not a crawdad) 17' of water and weighs 19.3 lbs. best Casitas bass was 18.6 lbs caught Feb 9, 1981 on the same style hair jig and pork rind trailer. The reason I always fish the jig is because of the memories, sometime it works, sometime it's a mistake.
Tom
Shane J reply :
On 3/22/2014 at 10:56 PM, The Rooster said:Why are you outright attacking him? He started a thread in good faith about bass fishing, stated his view on the subject, mirroring something I've even read that KVD himself agrees with, and the first thing you did was challenge it and now you're basically accusing him of being a fake. There's no need for the animosity here.
GOODNIGHT IRENE!
Yeah, that's exactly right, Rooster. I guess your opinion and mine are different, which is cool, but if you don't like the heat, you know what they say...
J Francho reply :
As long as the heat is civil…
Shane J reply :
Exactly.
Brian Needham reply :
His attacks...... tone.... looking for a head to head battle isnt being civil, IMO
Tom has forgotten more than most of us will know about fishing, lets not forget that.
Shane J reply :
That could be the problem, Brian, but I'm not so sure. According to this thread, his plan is to forget everything. I'd rather learn from someone who remembers everything, and has made sense of it all, than someone who just plain makes stuff up to sound cool.
J Francho reply :
My take away from the original post is to fish the moment. Would you disagree with that advice?
Shane J reply :
No, I wouldn't disagree with that.
J Francho reply :
Not completely related, but an article I wrote a few years ago.
http://www.bassresource.com/fishing/fishing-with-friends.html
Brian Needham reply :
I get all that........ but you started in how he hasnt caught yadda yadda in 30 years........ where's the pics...... did he even catch it.
you forget sir, WRB, CATT and all these old timers did it without GPS, waypoints, sidescan ect ect.
which is fishing at arguably a higher level than we do today.
anyways..... I am out of here cause I am doing what you should have done..... dont like so I am leaving the thread and not gonna rail on somebody...no minds will be changed here.
deaknh03 reply :
On 3/23/2014 at 2:32 AM, J Francho said:Not completely related, but an article I wrote a few years ago.
http://www.bassresource.com/fishing/fishing-with-friends.html
Good read.
Shane J reply :
Good read, I enjoyed that. Thanks.
aquaholic reply :
I think it could be better worded to, what worked yesterday might not work today. As for spots, If i can consistently get on fish at a spot than i dont see why i should stay away from that spot. You cant fish perfectly, and even if you did wait till you are on the water to make a plan that doesnt mean you are going to tie on what they want. You cant predict fish, and even if something worked yesterday that doesnt mean it wont or will work today.
geo g reply :
Lots of good info from a bunch of people. If I look for the biggest mistake people make when they fish it's that they fish way too fast. If fish are not in an aggressive mood you have to slow down. Everyone will become a better catcher if you keep this one tip in your mind.
WRB reply :
What prompted me to post this thread was my most recent trip to Casitas and a post A BR member had made.
Roadwarrier made a statement that he and his partner had a recent tournament event wired, they had done the homework and knew what the big bass were on. Tournament day, they could only catch small bass and didn't do as good as they hoped, even though he was in the zone.
My outing was similar, having fished Casitas since '58 and caught a lot giant bass* at this lake during pre spawn within 5 days around the full moon, I knew where to start and what to use from past experience. I was so confident that I didn't do my marina routine, why bother. 3 hours later with nothing going on, I decided to stop fishing and start looking around to what was really going on. No baitfish in the area, bass suspended at 8' in 15' of water, surface temps at 64. Moved into a few protected spawning areas, no cruisers or beds yet! Why had the bass pulled back and inactive? Ran into a boater who was catching a few small on Megabass Jerk bait, but that bite was tough. There was no wind, visibility about 10' and could see a few bass. Put away the jigs, worms and swimbaits, got out crank baits, dart jig and A-rig, found some off colored water and fished nothing banks along the 10' break. This is a classic post spawnafternoon presentation and it worked.
I am not sure why the bass had pulled back, but they did. Next outing it may be full on pre spawn to spawn transition. You can bet that I will check the conditions in the marina before fishing what should have worked based on past experience. Fish the moment, not the past is exactly what this thread is all about.
Tom
* my bench mark for giant bass is 15 lbs at Casitas & Castaic.
Smokinal reply :
I think you have to have a little of both scenarios going on. I agree that you need to fish the current conditions but to suggest wiping out all your waypoints?? Holy schniekies Batman!! About 8 years ago, I started keeping a log of every trip I made...conditions, baits used, catch rates on different baits etc... I can tell ya, it's the best thing I ever did for my fishing. Before I go out now, I look back on the past 8 yrs, find the dates, see what worked and what didn't and i can have a pattern before I even leave the driveway. Do I adjust as I get there if conditions call for it, of course I do, but man o man, to have some past knowledge of what worked under certain conditions is invaluable.
Oh, and I catch the bejeesus outta them.
shimmy reply :
While i disagree with Shane on this topic and his questioning of your credibility, i would agree with him with wishing you posted your catches more often. It would be fun to be part of the journey you have out there. Big O is the only big stick i know that posts his big fish consistently. And i know we all enjoy reading his posts. Fish Chris used to do it a lot as well, but he has been out and about. Either way, Tom, we wouldn't mind seeing your big fish posted more consistently. I know i wouldn't take it as you are trying to make others jealous. There is just something about people posting big fish that serve as a reminder that that next big fish could be mine and that it is possible.
AQUA VELVA reply :
I wouldn't mind having Shane J's fishing experience and expertise minus the attitude. There is such a thing as disagreeing without being disagreeable and it has little to do with heat in the kitchen.
WRB reply :
Off topicOn 3/23/2014 at 4:37 AM, shimmy said:While i disagree with Shane on this topic and his questioning of your credibility, i would agree with him with wishing you posted your catches more often. It would be fun to be part of the journey you have out there. Big O is the only big stick i know that posts his big fish consistently. And i know we all enjoy reading his posts. Fish Chris used to do it a lot as well, but he has been out and about. Either way, Tom, we wouldn't mind seeing your big fish posted more consistently. I know i wouldn't take it as you are trying to make others jealous. There is just something about people posting big fish that serve as a reminder that that next big fish could be mine and that it is possible.
Big O is in the tackle business and promoting product, Chris Fish was promoting his web site and he is a pro photographer. I am not promoting anything, just sharing a little experience and knowledge. I believe there are some photos on this site somewhere. You need to appreciate the fact our local lakes are small, posting pictures to satisfy my ego only increases fishing pressure.
Read what I posted and take from it what works for or leave it. Whomever interpretation it was fishing memories was forgetting what you know was misinterpreting what was written.
Tom
RoLo reply :
Big-O reply :
On 3/23/2014 at 4:48 AM, WRB said:Off topic
Big O is in the tackle business and promoting product,
Tom
Off topic
Yes I am and Yes I do... But even if I weren't, I'd share a few of my fishing experiences here with my many friends, and/or try to assist them with any knowledge or experience that I may have. If I didn't, they might think that I had DIED or something 
I can see in your original post how others might see it as possibly arguable, but I also agree that if we think that a topic or comment is questionable, we should be tactful in our response. It's important for us all to realize, that there are many young people and inexperienced anglers here at BassResource. They accept the information that those of us who appear to know what we're talking about... as FACT, so we have to be careful of our statements or comments to avoid confusion... Me included
On Topic
All skilled, seasoned and well experienced anglers on any given body of water should know that changing weather, water, seasonal or bait pattern conditions will alter the bite. Any angler who hasn't experienced that fact, would be considered inexperienced. We should always rely on our memories and experiences of each of these in order to be more successful anglers. I do agree that during each outing, we should make new memories... so that we can remember what was successful during that outing and during those times and conditions.
If a Guide forgot everything he knew about the waters he fishes and also which baits and styles of presentations that work best for him, he wouldn't stay in business very long... If a Tournament Pro forgot the areas of any lake they've fished and which bait presentations worked best at the different times of year that they've fished it, they won't be very successful on the circuit... If a person knew well at one time and then forgot, all of the seasonal bait and bass patterns on a certain lake, and all of the major structure changes including offshore ledges, humps, river bends, submerged timber and tree tops, shell beds, underwater rock and gravel locations, Grass beds etc. and which baits and colors worked best in any and all of those different areas and situations, they're back to square one.
Since I fish year around on many different bodies of water and only target one particular size of fish, it's important for me to remember any and all of my past experiences and knowledge of not only my target fish but also changing presentation styles and locations depending on the overall conditions. So I feel that remembering everything I can pays big dividends.
Another Example - Recently KVD handed the Major League Fishing competitors the biggest butt kickin in history at the Michigan event and in a variety of weather and water conditions... I doubt that he did it by forgetting all that he knew about his home waters. And just this weekend on the St Johns river, Chris Lane is handing out a royal flogging to the rest of the Elite series. I bet all of the other competitors are wishing that Chris Forgot all he knows about his Home waters too.
Maybe if you just said, we should never expect each fishing experience to remain the same if the weather, water, seasons and bait patterns have changed... it would have been less questionable. And maybe this topic was good to illustrate how important it is to understand that changing factors in conditions will make us usually change our tactics for success
J Francho reply :
In case anyone was blinking, a whole lotta truth just fell out into the internet.
Nicely put, and a great response, Big O. I was hoping you'd chime in.
Grizzn N Bassin reply :
Thanks Tom and Big O. Francho good read thanks
Mainebass1984 reply :
I would love to see some pictures of bass 15 lbs plus. That would be awesome.
flippin and pitchin reply :
I started to read this thread yesterday and stopped because it was turning caustic. I jumped to the last page to see how it evolved. Social media has it's problems and attempting to share what may have have been a thirty plus minute conversation in 20 lines of print has it's draw backs. One of the reasons this forum is so successful is the civility and shared courtesy shown from member to member. Please don't ever take that for granted. On topic: My take was to be flexible and weigh out what's today and not rely on yesterday. Good thought. I would love to sit down for breakfast with dozens of you guys and listen to your ideas and experiences. Thanks for your post Tom. There was alot of meat shared by many along with the bones.
WRB reply :
I really don't know why the word memories became erase your fishing knowledge or leave your experience at home. The point I was trying to get across was not to preconceived what going to happen by rigging up the night before, fish the moment.
What is even more ironic are statements regarding seasonal periods and bass behavior. Consider this fact; I was a pioneer writing about seasonal periods and bass behavior 40 years ago, before some of my critics were born. Reference: Google " Cosmic Clock and Bass Calendar" and look at the first page with the Cosmic Clock and Bass Calendar and instructions. I made this chart up in 1974 for Bass Pro Shop seminar in Burbank CA., yes there was a BP in Burbank back then owned by Bruce Noll.
Don't leave your knowledge at home, if that was what came out of this thread, it's the wrong message.
Tom
Lund Explorer reply :
On 3/23/2014 at 10:23 AM, flippin and pitchin said:I started to read this thread yesterday and stopped because it was turning caustic. I jumped to the last page to see how it evolved. Social media has it's problems and attempting to share what may have have been a thirty plus minute conversation in 20 lines of print has it's draw backs. One of the reasons this forum is so successful is the civility and shared courtesy shown from member to member. Please don't ever take that for granted. On topic: My take was to be flexible and weigh out what's today and not rely on yesterday. Good thought. I would love to sit down for breakfast with dozens of you guys and listen to your ideas and experiences. Thanks for your post Tom. There was alot of meat shared by many along with the bones.
I couldn't have said it better. Tom is one of a handful of members here that should be on everyone's must read list whenever he starts a thread or chimes in on a subject. Sadly, this topic wouldn't have become so caustic had a few people simply asked him to clarify his opinion rather than disagreeing with it immediately because it didn't fit within a preconceived line of thought.
On Topic. My take on it was to quit relying on the same "magic bait" we hear of so often. I cringe every time I read a thread where one angler asks for an opinion on what to do on Lake X, and they get a dozen replies from all over the country listing specific baits in specific colors. How anyone can make such a suggestion without ever seeing the body of water or the conditions is beyond me. It's that kind of advice that proves that what Tom was trying to teach all of us is sorely needed.
Catt reply :
We are told not to rely on History, to fish the Moment, with Technique Specific Tackle!
I've been around this sport longer enough to go HUH!
What can be gleaned from ones "History"!
I recently had the opportunity to fish the extreme north end of Toledo Bend, an area I had not fished for 30 years. But I do have years of experience fishing that specific area and especially during pre-spawn.
What I know from history is where the prime structure is located, what types of timber grew in this area prior to the lake being flooded, what the bottom composition is in that area, what kinds of vegetation grows in this type of bottom composition, and lastly what food source is available.
During the 3 hour drive to the launch I knew what the weather was doing, I was behind the console while the boat backed down, once the transom was wet all electronics were on, and by the time I idled out of the cove I pretty much knrw the water conditions. Once the hull hit plan the Game Plan was on!
Now y'all gonna tell this dumb Cajun y'all would not know what to do with that "HISTORY"!
No wonder y'all can't catch fish!
Disclaimer: I've reached that age where my brain when from "You probably shouldn't say that"...to..."what the hell, let's see what happens"
papajoe222 reply :
On 3/22/2014 at 12:14 AM, Shane J said:Whatever spices you put on it, is up to you, but it simply isn't true. To say that we "all" make that mistake when we hit the water, is pretty ignorant.
I agree with Shane's thinking that the topic title is, at the least, an assumption on Tom's part. I don't, however, agree that he is ignorant. The discussion on the topic is very thought provoking and I must say that I do fish the same areas I did the day prior even if conditions have changed. I will, however change my tactics based on conditions as I believe bass do not change their general location under different conditions.
I don't believe anyone questions Tom's or Shane's knowledge or experience, but the fire IMO is uncalled for.
Shane J reply :
Alright, so, in re-reading through, I have to kind of admit, that I sort of did steer it off topic, and into an area that was irrelevant, and I apologize to the group for that. As far as me n Tom go, there are just a couple people that, despite having some very valuable info and accomplishments on the water, just rub me the wrong way in how they they use it. We may never see eye to eye, but that doesn't mean that thoughts, opinions, and yeah, even a little rubbing shared along the way, shouldn't be okay to experience.
deaknh03 reply :
Back to the original post, heres my 2 cents. I quote WRBs original post then reply below.
1) Doesn't matter how long you have been bass fishing or what your skill levels is, we all make the same mistake. We start of the day or night by fishing memories, using lures, presentations and locations that worked the last time we caught bass. If nothing on the lake has changed, this may work, however lakes tend to change by the hour and expecting the bass to be where they were and eat what you offered the last time you fished, you are making a mistake......if you continue to fish memories without success. 2) I am no different and pre plan my next fishing outing, tie on lures that I believe will work.3) What I have learned over decades of bass fishing is; don't fire up the engine and run to where I fished the previous outing. 4) My routine to prevent fishing memories is check the lakes conditions at the moment as the boat is launched. Look at the water color, clarity, temperature, meter around the marina for sights of baitfish and bass. 5) Put a starting plan together based on what you know at that moment6) and make changes based on your instinctive feelings from what you learn during the day or night. 7) Make new memories each outing 8) and put the past behind you. 9) Good fishing.
Responses to each noted 1) The statement that we ALL make this same mistake is simply NOT true. Only the inexperienced, unskilled or someone who is ill prepared would do such. Any successful and experienced angler absolutely has a plan and anticipates what and where their going to fish prior to hitting the water. Those same experienced anglers also take the time to ck weather forecast, water levels, rig the variety of rods and bait presentations they anticipate will give them the best information and FIRST effort to establish a bite pattern, PRIOR to hitting the water. Those same experienced anglers also take a large variety of different presentation style baits and colors so that they can change and adjust to tweak the bite patterns as needed to it's highest levels.
2) I agree with this.
3) I don't agree with this UNLESS you didn't catch fish on the previous outing, or you don't fish very often.
4) This isn't necessarily true either UNLESS you failed to do your homework on lake conditions or you're only going to fish at the Marina. Most if not all lakes vary in surface temps and water clarity over the entire lake and those conditions can often be anticipated as well with due diligence.
5) Waiting until you get to the water to begin your planning should be AVOIDED if you want to have the best chances for success. ALL professionals in the industry are diligent in their planning, then adjust their plans as needed to depending on any differences they find. Fail to Plan, Plan to Fail.
6) I can't agree totally with this either, because Remembering the knowledge gained from a past experience of successfully dealing with similar conditions that are present, is FAR BETTER than just relying on "instinctive feelings". Although many of us would like to believe differently... None of us are born with the instincts and feelings to be professional fishermen... Any type of fishing on a high level is a LEARNED BEHAVIOR and even this requires remembering what you've learned.
7) I agree with making new memories, and hope that I can remember them whether good or bad, so that I can apply to the next time on the water.
8) I don't agree with "putting the past behind you" because your past experiences in fishing (whether good or bad) are your biggest assets for being successful in the future.
9) I agree with this
WRB reply :
All I can say is I must be inexperienced and somehow dumbed my way through the past 50 years or so bass fishing. The 300+ DD bass must have been retarded bass to let me catch them.
You wonder how any elite tournament angler fishing his home water could lose because they fished memories in lieu fishing the moment.
I will tuck my tail and call it a day.
Tom
FlipnLimits reply :
On 3/24/2014 at 8:45 AM, WRB said:All I can say is I must be inexperienced and somehow dumbed my way through the past 50 years or so bass fishing. The 300+ DD bass must have been retarded bass to let me catch them.
You wonder how any elite tournament angler fishing his home water could lose because they fished memories in lieu fishing the moment.
I will tuck my tail and call it a day.
Tom
Tom
I'd be more than happy to take some of your DD bass you are so lucky to have in your local hunts! I too have been at it a long time and have yet to record a 10'er.
I know you may have misworded slightly and didn't mean to say things how they sounded. Thinking it was hashed-out and would pass, it instead endures. Sometimes people don't read the whole thread and just post their thoughts, which is fair to expect.
Not that I need to apologize, but I'm sorry this has happened.
FL
Mainebass1984 reply :
300 double digit bass is very impressive. I would love to see some pictures.
.
shimmy reply :
On 3/24/2014 at 9:54 AM, Mainebass1984 said:300 double digit bass is very impressive. I would love to see some pictures.
.
I don't doubt his accomplishment. The guys contribution to this site is invaluable and always brings great insight. While there may have been a disconnect from what he was intending to say and how it was typed out is irrelevant to me. I would love to see him post pics and i think this thread is a great awakening opportunity for him to start posting pics. It's never too late to change! We are having a family intervention
Jaheff reply :
I need a sports psychologist. My simple mind could argue both ways.
gripnrip reply :
Man, what a battle! LOL I respectively agree with Tom, Catt, and ShaneJ. All you fellas catch toads on separate coastlines. Last but not least Big O as well. I met ShaneJ and Big O last year in Tulsa during the Classic. Great guys! I look forward to meeting other bass resource members one day. We are all passionate about our opinions and our experiences.
I can state the obvious for me as well as other members. I thought I was a decent bass fisherman until I joined this site. HMPH. I had no idea what the hell I was doing. Being a member here has taken me to a new level. And I owe it to all the members here. I take the advice from the more seasoned veterans to heart. I love all the guys advice that I stated above and others too. Glenn, Long Mike, 00mod, JFrancho to name a few more. Thanks for being passionate and helping the handicaps like me with our future adventures.
Darin
Catt reply :
Let's address myth #2!
I did a short 30 minute search & found 14 times a Pro won on his home lake, just think what I would find if I did a thourgh search!
Bankbeater reply :
I always tie on baits before I leave home based on my fishing logs, and the current conditions of the body of water where I am heading. Sometimes I nail it, and sometimes I sit in the boat and retie all my rigs with different baits. That is why when I go out in a boat I take the BIG tackle bag.
Shane J reply :
On 3/24/2014 at 11:20 AM, gripnrip said:Man, what a battle! LOL I respectively agree with Tom, Catt, and ShaneJ. All you fellas catch toads on separate coastlines. Last but not least Big O as well. I met ShaneJ and Big O last year in Tulsa during the Classic. Great guys! I look forward to meeting other bass resource members one day. We are all passionate about our opinions and our experiences.
I can state the obvious for me as well as other members. I thought I was a decent bass fisherman until I joined this site. HMPH. I had no idea what the hell I was doing. Being a member here has taken me to a new level. And I owe it to all the members here. I take the advice from the more seasoned veterans to heart. I love all the guys advice that I stated above and others too. Glenn, Long Mike, 00mod, JFrancho to name a few more. Thanks for being passionate and helping the handicaps like me with our future adventures.
Darin
And right there, is why I have a problem with half the stuff wrb posts. There are a lot of guys and gals on here, and quite a few youngsters, that come here to learn, and get better, and when a (cough) respected member puts up garbage, sometimes I just can't help myself. And as far as 300 DD bass goes, man, he might just be right, when he says they must have been the "retarded" ones, because anybody fishing big fish waters like in Cali or Texas, should have accidentally caught more than that in 50+ years, heck even if they were fishing for crappie! Big O has over 4500 DD bass pics just on his laptop, and has probably put the people he fishes with onto more than that.
jhoffman reply :
In Toms defense, not everyone has all day every day to fish.
If you fished 50 times a year and caught a 10+ lb bass every other time. It would take you at least 12 years to rack up 300 and thats if you get to fish that much. I on average with working a full time job might get to fish 25 times a year if that.
Its big difference out there when you havent been out for a week or more, everything has changed and you might not have a clue where to start(without memories).
Throw raising children in the mix and that time goes down for a significant period of life, if your worth your beans as a parent.
I consider an 8lb fish a big fish here in the north east. I can count on both hands then number of those I have caught and I have been fishing since I was old enough to walk. Ive got 30 into it at this point, man I must really be worse than I thought.
Grizzn N Bassin reply :
I find WRB's post very helpful he has that old school knowledge of bass fishing and fishing in general that is often overlooked these days. i have only a handful of people in my life that have been bass fishing for there whole life. Which when they speak on bass fishing i take in the information i believe is helpful or not and put it to use. if it doesn't work that particular day that's fine at least i know it and if i ever stumble upon a situation where i can try it again i will. I'm relevantly new to this kind of bass fishing as in learning more about baits and certain applications. since I've been 5 to about 15 i used a spinning rod with braid fishing using a few cranks, spinners, jitterbugs, hollow body frogs, and senkos. That was my arsenal, didn't need more. Know that I'm older and can afford some newer baits I'm learning every day. I found this site in high school but didn't join until 2012 so i lurked for 3 years reading the articles and posts writing things down etc. All im saying is we don;t need to get on peoples cases about lieing , take the info for what is , these days people are trying to make a quick buck on the newest lure or rig. but the real gold is the info from the guys with real old school knowledge like your grandpa, father, uncle or the man at your local tackle store who's been running it for 40 years, those are the people to learn from. i think Tom, Big O and many others on this site are on that list.
Also IMO I'm not saying to not question and only listen , go ahead and question it, but undermining someones years of experience on the water and dismissing it as false is just ignorant.
Shane J reply :
Grizz, I see what you're saying, it's just that giving bad info (to kids in particular), is not gonna fly in my book. So yeah, take it for what it's worth. With him, that's just not much, is all I'm saying.
Brian Needham reply :
whip 'em out boys ....... its a measuring contest now.
yall want to talk about helping young folks and new anglers????? What kind of example is whining like little girls setting?
can we drop the agendas now and talk about fishing? Please.
Lund Explorer reply :
On 3/24/2014 at 8:32 PM, Brian Needham said:whip 'em out boys ....... its a measuring contest now.
yall want to talk about helping young folks and new anglers????? What kind of example is whining like little girls setting?
can we drop the agendas now and talk about fishing? Please.
It's too bad that Glenn hasn't been able to figure out how to let every member start their own threads yet. Then we could read them and provide critical observations whenever we disagreed with them.
Then again, that effort might be beyond some!
Grizzn N Bassin reply :
On 3/24/2014 at 8:32 PM, Brian Needham said:whip 'em out boys ....... its a measuring contest now.
yall want to talk about helping young folks and new anglers????? What kind of example is whining like little girls setting?
can we drop the agendas now and talk about fishing? Please
mjseverson24 reply :
if you look hard there is actually some pretty good info on this thread, a lot of unrelated and non-informative stuff as well. I may be one of the only people who took what Tom had to say probably the way he meant it, or at least close to it, and in my experience I would have to agree with the nature of his original post. Some of my worst days have come when i didnt do my research on weather patterns, look up fishing reports, and other stuff i usually do, i just went out fishing planning on catching them where i did "last time". Now typically i am able to recover and figure something out, but spending three+ hours in a spot just to figure out they are not here sucks. I guess the moral of the story is dont be lazy, approach each day like a new challenge, and dont rely on fishing spots where they have been in the past, be ready to use your knowledge to find that new "Honey Hole"...
Mitch
1234567 reply :
I agree with a lot that's been said here. Every time before i leave I formulate a plan based on predicted weather conditions for the following day. So many times when relying on past experiences and places that produced have failed to replicate previous situations experienced were coming up empty and change was needed. One day out I was flipping, bluebird skies, post cold front had moved in and winds were fairly calm. I figured fish would be super tight to cover. Maybe they were but I stumbled across a giant school of bass and got on em good and never would have even thought of it except for finding them by accident that day. I do agree that conditions change fish activity and fishing the same way all the time minimizes your chances of having a more successful outing. Sometimes it's as easy as letting your plastic sit for several seconds before moving it that produces bites opposed to working the bait right away after it hit's bottom. While most agree I think that is a big reason why most of us love fishing. It really is a thinking man's game even when your out just fun fishing.
basscatcher8 reply :
I think he was just getting at the folks that go fishing and have a "milk run" of spots somewhere. They just go hit those spots if they catch nothing they put the boat on the trailer and say the fishing sucks and go home. Alot of people dont take the time to break down a day. I have spots just like everybody else here but if the fish arent on that spot i know from the other knowledge ive read on here from Catt and WRG and a few others about fish movement that the fish are going to follow the contours where they are going. So the fish that were on that spot could move either way from it and setup close by or a mile down or further. I fish river systems mostly so I know if I caught fish on a spot roaming that if the water is high the next week those fish are going to be up with their noses stuck into the bank or if its lower they will be roaming that area or moved further out into the river and setup on new cover. I think what the biggest mistake is and i've read a few others say it but alot of fisherman lack the ability to stand back and look at the big picture and figure out whats happening. And the worst part about that is the big picture is never complicated. The bass brain lives off instinct we spend all this time and money learning that instinct. And we as fisherman tend to complicate that way to much. I guess the biggest thing I'm getting at is there are alot of fisherman that should learn to ask "why?" more and not to the internet forum but while they are on the water and hitting their spot and its dead they need to stop and ask themselves "why" and if they start digging around they will find out quick and it might be that the fish just pushed out deeper cause of a temp change or the dnr came in and sprayed all the weeds and the fish vacated down a ways to clean water.
I'm just a nobody around here though and spend more time reading than typing but thats my two cents on this subject. Best ill get is a penny lol
J Francho reply :
Tournament fishing has taught me that while fish move, they don't move that much, outside seasonal movements. I'm referring to largemouth here. You can try to beat them into a bite sometimes, but if you cut through the dock talk, and listen to the guys that had good days, when you did not, I've come to the conclusion that the bite moves, not the fish. Having terrible results? Move. Seriously.
Brian Needham reply :
basscatcher..... thats worth at leaast 3 cents if you ask me! good stuff .
RoLo reply :
On 3/24/2014 at 10:58 PM, J Francho said:Tournament fishing has taught me that while fish move, they don't move that much, outside seasonal movements. I'm referring to largemouth here. You can try to beat them into a bite sometimes, but if you cut through the dock talk, and listen to the guys that had good days, when you did not,
I've come to the conclusion that the bite moves, not the fish. Having terrible results? Move. Seriously.
John & I may not agree on everything, but when it comes down to vital tasks like Fish Location, we're both sitting in the same boat.
If you remember this one tidbit, your time in this thread was not wasted: "The bite moves, not the fish".
Between freshwater and saltwater I've probably fished for about 50 different species of fish (never bothered to count them).
Regardless of which species I might be targeting, I ALWAYS run a paper route of waypoints based on Species - Waterbody - Season.
Needless to say, a great deal of time, homework and experience goes into each and every holding site, and tweaking the nuclei is ongoing.
Roger
Mainebass1984 reply :
Very interesting how this discussion has progressed. A lot of opinions from some very knowledgeable people. You know what they say about opinions though..... "Opinions are like a**holes everyone has one"
I would still like to see some pictures of giant bass, 15 lbs plus. Not sure if I have ever seen one on here.
Either way, please continue.
1234567 reply :
You won't see many pictures of 15 pound bass because quite frankly, there are not many 15 pound bass in most place. Given the odds only a few states harbour bass that big, more states than most people believe in general, but also the fact that very few people have caught a bass that big. I'm from South Florida and I would be shocked to see a 15 pound bass caught from my area. Are they here, absolutely but they are very hard to come by.. Now a world record bass from my area I just don't believe it is here.
RipSomeLips reply :
On 3/24/2014 at 7:31 PM, Shane J said:And right there, is why I have a problem with half the stuff wrb posts. There are a lot of guys and gals on here, and quite a few youngsters, that come here to learn, and get better, and when a (cough) respected member puts up garbage, sometimes I just can't help myself. And as far as 300 DD bass goes, man, he might just be right, when he says they must have been the "retarded" ones, because anybody fishing big fish waters like in Cali or Texas, should have accidentally caught more than that in 50+ years, heck even if they were fishing for crappie! Big O has over 4500 DD bass pics just on his laptop, and has probably put the people he fishes with onto more than that.
Ummmm...on a totally unrelated note...after reading this thread since it started I feel like going and watching the movie "GRUMPY OLD MEN". Like I said, totally unrelated
Brian Needham reply :
http://www.flwoutdoors.com/fishing-articles/tips-and-techniques/154618/fishing-the-moment/#.UzieuWIo5jo
WRB reply :
Good article that supports this thread , thank you for posting the link.On 3/31/2014 at 6:50 AM, Brian Needham said:http://www.flwoutdoors.com/fishing-articles/tips-and-techniques/154618/fishing-the-moment/#.UzieuWIo5jo
Tom
Brian6428 reply :
Back to the original topic, I think people fish the past because they don't know what else to do.
Take me for example. I have been fishing 1.5 years with only the BR to help me. This past friday, a friend catches a bass from shore on a spinnerbait. I go out saturday and sunday throwing a spinnerbait and get skunked. Why? I didn't know what else to throw.
I think people rely on specific past results because they don't have the knowledge to adapt to the present, like me this weekend. Now to find those pre-spawn bass and see what they want to eat!
So I aree with both sides of the argument. Fishing the moment is crucial to success, but without any past knowledge I have as much chance to catch a fish as when i first picked up a rod.
J Francho reply :
You learned something though, I hope. Fish don't always bite a moving bait. Next time, throw your spinnerbait. If you don't get but for a bit, try something slower, like a Texas rigged worm. See what happens.
IntroC reply :
This is a great thread! Lots of info.
I will say this I look forward to reading WRB's and Catts post when ever I'm lucky enough to run across them. Very informational and thought provoking. We are all probably members of more than a couple different outdoor sites, maybe not but I am and when visiting these sites certain members you really listen to what they have to say. For some reason they just speak to you at another level. A couple others are Francho and Dwite Hottle.
That being said I think there may be a little jealousy floating around on this thread.
Jacob044 reply :
Wow, had a good time reading these post's most of the time until today. What's up with all the animosity? NO, I'm not the professional like most of you guys and I'm relatively new here but what's with all the angry comments and the name calling. Some sound like a bunch of play ground kids. (Your mother wears combat boots---> I know you are but what am I?) ands so on. ON topic. Before I moved to Florida 2 years ago, I fished memories all the time. The lake was Powers lake in Wisconsin. Right near the center of the lake were 2 under water islands next to each other. I fished them week after week and ALWAYS caught bass there. 19 one day 12 another 7 next and 12 the next on a drop shot rig in 12 -18 feet of water with green pumpkin worm. So there. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and has a right to express himself or herself without the fear of angry comments and name calling. I appreciate the ones who supported each other but I'll just throw this out there. NO ONE is always right all the time. Now those who want to rail on me, go ahead. I'm above your nasty comments. I am learning quite a bit on this forum about Florida lakes and how best to fish them as these lakes and the ever changing weather sometimes throws me a curve but I keep on trying to be the best bass angler I can be. Thank you to all those helpful comments and suggestions that I find here. They help a lot.
Off topic, the most undesirable basser is the one who shows up at the dock with his load of bass and when you ask for any suggestions or where he found them, or what color, he replies, (out in the lake). I'm sure that my comments will offend the hot shots here. Then so be it. There are more than enough bass in any one lake for every one.
Tight Lines, Jman
Catt reply :
Here's a question far y'all!
How do the Pros decide where to start the tournament plans & with which lures?
Brian Needham reply :
On 3/31/2014 at 11:30 AM, Catt said:Here's a question far y'all!
How do the Pros decide where to start the tournament plans & with which lures?
map study and seasonal patterns......... even the one guy in the link said he dedicates a day of practice to "off-the-wall" stuff, something totally different than the pack.
I know you are wanting someone to say history, but the link I posted states a different story.
If Brent Ehrler says he don't go back to old winning spots, I'll take his word for it.......along with everyone else that said the same.
when Mark Rose says he always fishes a new spot on the TN River every time out, I'll listen.
I have actually read interview after interview and article after article today about this topic....... and every Pro, expert, writer has all said...... If you aint fishing new water you are fishing dead water.
Catt, I more than listen when you speak here at Bass Resource. You are with out doubt top 5 in knowledge around here. I just think both sides, for and against are drawing hard lines that don't need drawn.
Remembering depth, weather, season, wind, ect, ect is more important than spot, IMO...... but I am not near the fisherman you are.
a friend and I were in a discussion the other day about "when do you know, you know the lake. When do you know you have it clocked"
the mutual answer we came up with was when you have at least 6 "spots" per season and have 3-4 back ups to go with those to catch em in any weather, any current, pre and post front.......... and you cant come up with those fishing the same place everytime out.
for a guy like you, Catt, you obviously catch fish anytime you want, and it works for you....... but I don't necessarily think you are camping on the same point/ledge everytime out for the last 50 years either.
plumworm reply :
The question I have after spending a half an hour of my life reading this post: ( and I don't remember the names) Is person "A" questioning person "B" about catching 300+ DD bass? or did I spend the whole time " missing the point" I did get that it was about not going out with pre conceived ideas about where the fish are or how they could be caught. The mantra of the whole conversation vacillated to a big question mark by the time I was done reading . I do agree, that sometimes they are where they were, and other times they are not. And sometimes they bite like they did and sometimes they don't. But, 100 plus posts about something so obvious is ? 300+ DD bass, Your the Man.
Catt reply :
[quote name="Brian Needham" post="1492692" timestamp="13962392
a friend and I were in a discussion the other day about "when do you know, you know the lake. When do you know you have it clocked"
the mutual answer we came up with was when you have at least 6 "spots" per season and have 3-4 back ups to go with those to catch em in any weather, any current, pre and post front
Brian Needham reply :
I figured you has that many spots, since you have TB clocked.
I suppose my point is, its all new water if a person hasn't fished it yet........... my "home" lake is 40k+ acres, so I got a while, LOL.
TO answer the guide fishing question I say, then why don't the guides win all the tournaments?
IMO, it is because there is always a better way to fish it, somewhere or something that can be changed or refined with the "current pattern"
Guides do have 100s if not a 1000 spots, but they didn't find them not fishing new stuff each time out.
I don't want you to think I am trying to argue, I am not.
my thoughts are this thread or the message contained, was not intended for people like you, people that already have their lake clocked..... but more for people like me, that have a long journey ahead, fishing a bigger lake and that need to hear, don't be afraid to try somewhere new.
Even still, I bet even you have a few spots you might not have fished in a few years.
many times we hear a pro say on sunday afternoon........ " my fish quit and I pulled into a place I never fished before yesterday and that's how I won."
That is the beauty of fishing(to me).... trying to solve a jgsaw puzzle where the pieces are always changing their shape! Thank goodness we have a lifetime to try!
Lund Explorer reply :
Fishing History -vs- Memories
Many years ago I was entered into a draw tournament on Hamlin Lake here in Michigan. The tournament was held during the middle of August. Back in those days, the nonboater was given control of the front for half the fishing day. The boaters always had the choice of which part of the day they wanted to control the boat and his nonboater got the other half. The nonboater I drew that day was one of those guys that fished based on memories!
Prior to blast off, we had discussed our plans and this guy said that all he wanted was to fish the North Bayou. If you look at a lake map, you'd see that this bayou was 3' - 5' deep, muddy bottom, and with no real fish holding cover. I decided at that point that I would take the prime time slot of the first four hours of the day. We fished deep weed lines and a few select docks during my time period, and as he wished, we headed for his choice as soon as his time arrived. For the next four hours, we plodded along on dead water. All the while this guy is confused and whines about where all of these great smallies he'd been catching had gone to. I finally couldn't resist, so I asked him when he had been there catching all of these fish. His answer? In April!
At least he got a month that started with the same letter.
Lund Explorer reply :
Fishing History -vs- Memories
My best friend and long time tournament partner had his own problems too. One of his sisters had married a guy who moved her to Michigan's UP and as luck would have it, right next to Little Bay DeNoc. That place was a smallmouth dream factory. The first time he made a spring trip to visit and get in a little fishing, Mike whacked a boatload of fish on what became his favorite spinnerbait. And every year after that, the second weekend in June became the time to head north to relive that day.
When I made the pilgrimage the first time, all I heard for the six hour drive was that the only lure I needed was this one spinnerbait. Well the drive home was a little different. We'd caught a bunch of smallies that weekend, but it wasn't what Mike had planned on enjoying. The vast majority came on suspending jerkbaits. It took almost the whole first day for him to change to the lure that was working, because he just knew that they were going to turn on to that spinnerbait.
The next year when we headed out for our trip north, Mike had the plan all figured out. Can you guess what his lure of choice was?
If not, you need to reread the post!
Catt reply :
TO answer the guide fishing question I say, then why don't the guides win all the tournaments?
Just because you're catching does not mean you're catching enough to win.
Bassmaster Elite St.Johns River 2014: Edwin Evers 51st, Michael Iaconelli 64 th, Tommy Biffle 67 th, Kevin VanDam 70 th, Skeet Reese 81 st, & Boyd Duckett 91 st.
Guess they were fishing "Memories"!
Nitrofreak reply :
If there is one thing I have learned here , it is to find new water , fish where the fish are , not where they have been , I have fished my favorite lake for over twenty years now with only a handful of those years seriously fishing this body of water , that marks the day I have joined this site , I have learned that not all fishing requires a rod and reel , nor bait of any kind , I have found that applying theory to your own situation from books and teachings from this site have by far made me and my family better anglers , I have learned that your mind is one of the most , if not the most , important tools you have as an angler , also one of the most corrupt if you allow it to be .
Brian Needham reply :
On 3/31/2014 at 7:05 PM, Catt said:Bassmaster Elite St.Johns River 2014: Edwin Evers 51st, Michael Iaconelli 64 th, Tommy Biffle 67 th, Kevin VanDam 70 th, Skeet Reese 81 st, & Boyd Duckett 91 st.
Guess they were fishing "Memories"!
that list of names is not surprising at their finish....... now look at the top 10, none of those guys are suprising either.... thats a "style" deal, not memory/new water deal.
and you know that Catt.
RoLo reply :
Catt & Brian Needham,
From my viewpoint, you fellows are both in agreement, but are each supporting different aspects of the same platform.
Just like Catt, I run a paper route of waypoints founded squarely on 'history'. Why? Because history tends to repeat itself
and trends tend to persist. On the other hand, I don't like the word "memories", because it connotes nostalgia and fixation.
This is where Brian came in, who wanted to interject flexibility & versatility into the mix, and I couldn't agree more.
Lund Explorer reinforced this notion by offering examples of the damage caused by anglers who are paralyzed by memories.
Brian specified 'seasonal pattern' and 'map study', Right On! Throw in 'field study' (cover survey) on top of that, and we're home safe.
With respect to flexibility, ask Catt how many time he re-adjusted his waypoint coordinates,
and you can rest assured the number is closer to 1000 than 100.
In short, we can use the word "clock" if we like, as long as we understand that the clock never stops.
This is what I meant earlier in this same thread, when I referred to 'tweaking the nuclei'.
Roger
Brian Needham reply :
Great Summary RoLo!!!! thats about as good as it gets, combining all of our thoughts on the topic.
short story....... I went for 2 days and had about 15 or so spots mark on my map, I ran most of them not getting bit, or seeing fish.... so I backed up and punted.... went to a few spots I have fished before caught a few, then scanned the map and ran new water silmilar to my old spots and caught fish the rest of the day.
when you boild it all down, I really think it has to be a mix of both.
Catt understands the "why" better than most folks, especially on his home lakes, as he has fished it for a while..... someone like me, I am still looking for the why, and the spots that make it the why.... hopefully in 40 years I'll have it all clocked and have the 100 waypoint milkrun too.
WRB reply :
Nothing in bass fishing is absolute or black and white. Fishing memories isn't always a mistake but it can be and that was my intent.
Several years ago I was thinking about where to start my morning out based on all my past experiences when a thought came to me; fish the opposite side of the lake, the steep side. The time period was pre spawn, the weather was forecast for light wind and rain, wind out of the S-W. Our normal wind is N-E and usually fish the sloping side of this lake during pre spawn. Tucked the thought away and started out fishing my usual spots on the N-E bank, no wind and overcast, the rain hadn't started yet. Catching a few bass, not what I am looking for, the thought nagging me to move to the oppose side and different arm to where my premonition was the night before. Classic fishing memory scenario; I knew exactly where to go based on prior success. The rain and wind had picked up everything was right and 3 cast later a 17.4 lb bass was the result.
Success like this supports the habit of fishing spots that we have success with, because it works sometimes.
When it works it's not a mistake, when you stay and force feed bass that won't bite, then it's a mistake.
I am not advocating not using your experience or following your instincts, do both but be open minded when it doesn't work.
Tom
bigbill reply :
Fishing from shore at the smaller places can vary between lures and presentations. What was a hot lure last year won't be hot this year. I firmly believe in fishing the smaller places the fish learn our lures. I also think they learn my scent that I'm using too. I go through my ritual of lures but then start throwing some different colors inbetween too. One slow day I changed from a shad scent to a garlic scent and the bite was on when I thought things were dead. Suttle changes can make your day. To me even the different sounds of the rattle can make a difference. The bomber cranks have that little low toned multiple ball rattle were another lure may have that one large ball knocker. Either one can make a difference.
So I say,
Change crankbait lure colors, sizes and rattle.
Go topwater, shallow, mid, and deep try them all.
Spinnerbaits, go smaller 1/8oz, 3/16oz, 1/4oz, white or chartruese Colorado blade a plus, two Colorado blades a given in stained/muddy water, go heavier in muddy water.
Don't forget the plastics.
Shore fishermen don't give up hammer it. The tougher it is the more I kick it up a notch. Watch all the videos here if your a beginner or just want to refresh after a long winters nap. We do forget.
Do not keep casting out what isn't working. You will be more tired sooner.
I go into a practice mode when it's slow. I take each lure and practice different presentations with it. Different speeds can be the key to success. A short pause, a long pause, no pause a slow continuous movement. It can change at anytime. The fish are there it's up to us to catch them.
If your an average shore fisherman go out there and have fun. Increase your knowledge and develop your skills. The better your skills develop the more fish you will catch. Nothing feels better than our success as it increases. If it doesn't we must figure out why it's not. Are we casting too hard slamming the water? Make softer gentle casts. Our lure is like a high diver in a pool we want a very small foot print and splash as our lure enters the water. The quieter we are the better no talking, no music.
Bill
roadwarrior reply :
I prefer a big splash, loud music and good conversation.
Maybe it attracts the big mommas and scares the little bucks
away?
Don't forget, "Girls just want to have fun!"
WRB reply :
On 4/1/2014 at 1:09 AM, roadwarrior said:I prefer a big splash, loud music and good conversation.
Maybe it attracts the big mommas and scares the little bucks
away?
Don't forget, "Girls just want to have fun!"
So your the one in that Jon boat with the dam boom box!
Catt reply :
Sorry I've been busy making memories by fishing memories!
It's 5:30 am, 68°, overcast, south winds 5-10, prefrontal!
Y'all keep talking about how it don't work, I'll keep proving it does!
Nitrofreak reply :
Have a great day on the water !!!
Good luck and be safe !!!
jeremyryanwebb reply :
Speaking of fishing a memory...About two months ago I had an amazing day. Fished this backwater pocket with overhanging trees on a Xcalibur xr50 real gill. For two weeks after that I fished that memory only to come up with a couple dinks. So yesterday....I went back to the same spot after letting it rest for a couple weeks. Threw the same bait I had thrown before and immediately hit the jackpot on a hungry group of fish again. It wasnt fishing a memory....It was almost fishing DEJA VU. 6.4 lbs, 3.4 lbs, 3.2 lbs, and 5 more between the 1.5 and 2.5 range.
It was great! Same bait, Same cover, same time of day.....BUTTTTT one thing I learned was to not fish a memory. I wasted two weeks pushing for something that wasnt there instead of thinking and using my currect weather and water conditions. I thought I was being determined by putting so much time into a spot i knew could produce, but really it was ignorance because I had been overwhelmed by one good day of fishing here. LEARN FROM EXPERIENCE.....BUT DONT DWELL ON IT
Lendiesel22 reply :
I can dig both major points here, the hostility toward one another seems like a waste of time.
RoLo reply :
On 4/2/2014 at 10:26 PM, jeremyryanwebb said:Speaking of fishing a memory...About two months ago I had an amazing day. Fished this backwater pocket with overhanging trees on a Xcalibur xr50 real gill. For two weeks after that I fished that memory only to come up with a couple dinks. So yesterday....I went back to the same spot after letting it rest for a couple weeks. Threw the same bait I had thrown before and immediately hit the jackpot on a hungry group of fish again. It wasnt fishing a memory....It was almost fishing DEJA VU. 6.4 lbs, 3.4 lbs, 3.2 lbs, and 5 more between the 1.5 and 2.5 range.
It was great! Same bait, Same cover, same time of day.....BUTTTTT one thing I learned was to not fish a memory. I wasted two weeks pushing for something that wasnt there instead of thinking and using my currect weather and water conditions. I thought I was being determined by putting so much time into a spot i knew could produce, but really it was ignorance because I had been overwhelmed by one good day of fishing here. LEARN FROM EXPERIENCE.....BUT DONT DWELL ON IT
Discovering that no method and no delivery is bulletproof is all part of the learning process.
We learn just as much from our failures, as we do from our successes.
Memory and recall are critical, because without them we cannot broaden our knowledge base.
Roger
West Tennessee Bass. Man reply :
Sure you have to take into account the conditions of the day but if you don't pre plan with the knowledge you have of the lake you are also making a mistake. If you have fished a lake long enough and pre plan with weather reports and other known conditions. Why then keep records of your trips.
related General Bass Fishing Forum topic
previous topic
most viewed General Bass Fishing Forum topic
© 2024 - fishing.qciss.net. All Rights Reserved.