It�s on! 2024

Catt reply :

Since our northern counter parts are lamenting the 2007 season us Southern boys are getting hyped for some of the best fishing of the coming 2008 season.

Pre-spawn is the time when the fish are in transition from the cold winter and moving up to shallow water to get ready to start their spawn. These fish are hungry, moody, and restless. Bass are on the move looking for their spawning beds, their metabolism is changing. The question is "Where are they? Where are the warmest spots on the lake and how is this weather front going to affect the fish?

I believe it's all about timing; the bass are going to get rid of those eggs no matter what. Here on Toledo Bend the bass will start their move up as early as mid January and the spawn will run through the end of March and even as late as mid April. Bass will go to pre-spawn even if the water is 35 to 40 degrees.

What does it take to make for a good staging location?

There are 2 things that I consider when looking for staging areas. The first is the 3 to 5' flats that are closest to my winter holes. The second is spawning locations that I know about from previous years.

Toledo Bend is not a natural lake, in reality it is a flooded canyon; What this means is that the lake has a lot of flats out in the middle of the lake and when the lake is low these high spots can be great spawning locations

I try to keep it simple; spinner baits, crank baits and Rattle-L-Traps for the most part. Spinner baits I use a white ½ ounce double willow leaf. Crank baits I look for baits that have a tight wobble to them and the Rattle-L-Traps I use both a ½ and 3/4 ounce each. For me the key is that I want to be able to just tick the tops of the grass and that is what determines the size of baits I use. As for the reels I use a 6:1 ratio for most everything, but if I am going to slow role a spinner bait I may go to a slower 5.0:1 ratio. It makes it easier for me to keep it down on the bottom. As for the line and rods I consider the situation, water clarity, depth and of course cover plays a big factor in what is needed for the situation.

fishfordollars reply :

Catt you are absolutely right. November through April are the best of times. The flats close to the deeper holes are right on. Lucky for us most of the weekend anglers are beating the banks. They never pressure the right areas.

Crestliner2008 reply :

Great post - Thanks! I'm one of those unfortunates, here in the Northeast, who must endure the long frozen water period. I envie you folks down South. To be able to fish open water in January has got to be a true joy in the life of any fisherperson. I'm not a hard water fisherman, so I have to sit in front of the boob tube, watch re-runs of the In'Fisherman and wear out some BPS & Cabela's catalogs. I will also clean & re-lub reels, re-arrange my tackle boxes (several times!) and read the fine posts here. "Anticipation!"

Matt Fly reply :

How is the water level holding Catt?

Do they draw her down like they do Sam Rayburn in the winter to anticipate the spring rains?

Good post as usual.

Matt

Evan Pease reply :

Thanks to global warming my favorite lake hasnt froze for the past 2 years. I dont think thats good environmentally but I can fish in the winter :-/

Catt reply :

Lake level: 167.78

Lake temperature: 60-62 degrees

North Toledo is stained, mid lake is slightly stained to clear and south Toledo remains clear. Recent rain has stained back portions of major creeks.

Best patterns: Rat-L-Traps over shallow grass, Berkley's Frenzy Mid Diver and Deep Little N in Blue/chartreuse and shad patterns, Stanley's Wedge spinner bait with double willow leaf blades and white/chartreuse skirts, Texas and wacky rigged Senkos & Berkley Gulp Sinking Minnow. my bigger bass are being caught on Oldhams Jig-N-Craws in 15-25'.

Cold fronts are making deep water patterns improve with such baits as tailspinners, jigging spoons and drop shots in 25-40'.

Low_Budget_Hooker reply :

So would this time frame for you folks be the equivalent to our much shorter "fall feed" up north or is this more of the beginning of pre-spawn??

roadwarrior reply :

Pre-spawn.

In south Texas, I'm told they only have three seasons: July, August and summer.

8-)

Catt reply :

Here in Southeast Texas/Southwest Louisiana we will go from fall to winter to spring by the end of February. Pre-spawn can start as early as mid-January, earlier than most people realize.

There are no set reasons for pre-spawn as far as I know; I realized how early that pre-spawn movement started, because somewhere around mid-January every winter, I'd lose my deep fish. What I mean is that I quit catching them deep. I'd be catching them on jigs out in 20-25 feet of water and all of a sudden those fish were gone.

It took me a while to realize what was happening; those fish were just starting to move shallow. The bass would come out of that deep water and start moving shallow, and water temp had very little if anything to do with it, contrary to what people believe. Most of the time, when these fish came out of deep water, the water temp could be anywhere from 49 to 50-degrees and they'd leave those holes for shallower water - 5 to 10-feet. That's when Rat-L-Traps and crank baits started catching so many fish.

The whole spawn occurs much sooner than people realize - they're still out there fishing deep when a lot of the fish have moved up close to the spawning ground, with some actually staging. I think what causes pre-spawn is when the female gets full of eggs - those eggs start swelling, and if you've caught many fish in December you know what I'm talking about. Around January those eggs start swelling and the bass have an instinctively move shallow, even though the spawn doesn't occur until (on T-Bend) sometime between the last week of February and runs until the middle of April.

I think what's misleading to many anglers is when they read articles about the spawn most of these articles mention water temperatures of 60 degrees but this is surface temperature. Bass do not lay eggs on the surface! 60 degrees is a generalization, it could be 55-65 degrees depending on your lake. This would mean pre-spawn would start around 45 degrees which is a lot sooner that many people think.

RoLo reply :

Quote
There are no set reasons for pre-spawn as far as I know; and water temp had very little if anything to do with it,
contrary to what people believe.

Catt, that's an unpopular view, but I fully agree.

In my opinion at least, water temperature is little more than a coincident symptom (a handy yardstick).

For example, goldenrod is blamed for hayfever that's caused by ragweed, simply because they both bloom together.

Bass are known to spawn in water temperatures between 55 and 75 deg F, which is not exactly sticking-a-landing.

I've always believed that the spawn is innately tied to "photoperiod", no different than the vegetable kingdom.

That is to say, as long as the trend of day-length is rising, spawning is possible, but ends when the days grow shorter in length

If that were true, the potential spawning range would extend from December 21 (Winter Solstice) to June 21 (Summer Solstice).

States like Florida seem to support this theory, where the bass spawning period commonly extends from December to May.

Also in Florida, there are some lakes and rivers with underground springs that maintain "year-round" water temperatures

of 72 degrees F. Regardless of year-round 72 deg temperatures, bass living in these waters spawn unerringly once a year.

Roger

bait__Monkey reply :

These fellas are preaching words most people pay for when you go out and buy books about bassin',....listen up people

Catt reply :

Exactly Roger, look at Power Plant Lake where the temperatures stay warm year round but the spawn still takes place; We need to keep in mind these terms are generalizations and are not carved in stone.

Take for instance you always hear about fishing north banks but north banks doesn't necessarily mean the north end of the lake. Look far banks that are protected from the north wind, that doesn't mean every fish in the lake is going to seek out that area, but fish that are in that area will be more active and much easier to catch.

bighed reply :

I agree with most of what you guys are saying. I'm usually fishing rattletraps for prespawn fish by early Feb. even though some fish can still be caught on jigging spoons deep. However, I'm not sure about water temp not being the major driver of the start of the spawn. I've been one of those guys that hits Fork and other area lakes hard waiting for the first fish to move up. I've done this every year since 1988. What I've seen time and time again is that the first fish will be on the beds after a warming trend of at lease a few weeks. Sometimes this is in Feb., March, or April depending on how cold the winter was. The very first males appear near 58 degrees in the upper ends of the lake. Then a front will blow in and cool the water temps 5 degrees or so and the fish move back out to water a few feet deeper. When the temps rise again the fish move back onto the beds. As some fish finish their spawn others are starting, usually a little farther south on the lake where the water is becoming warmer. There are exceptions to this, some lower lake creeks spawn early maybe due to warmer run off or ? The local power plant (hot water) lakes spawn around the end of Dec. into Jan. I don't see this related to hours of daylight or moon phase as some suggest. Also, we sometimes have a secondary spawn in the fall. It's never anywhere near as large as the spring run but it usually happens when water temps have again returned to the 60's whether that be in Oct. or Nov. This is JMHO, thanks for an interesting thread. big

RoLo reply :

On any lake or stream the spawning ritual is never a simultaneous event. During the heart of the spawning season,

there'll be bass in the pre-spawn, spawn and post-spawn stages, at the "same" time and in the "same" lake section.

Humans are warm-blooded animals, and if our bodies can't maintain a core temperature of 98.6 deg F we die.

Fish are cold-blooded creatures whose core temperature can run the gamut without causing any harm to the fish.

For that matter, there's no evidence to suggest that fish feel discomfort in "any" water temperature, cold or hot.

Although bass may not be uncomfortable in icy water, the cold water lowers their metabolism which causes a change in behavior.

Cold water suppresses their speed of movement, their appetite, their digestion and so on. But none of these things cause pain.

During the dog-days of summer, bass are wide-eyed and bushy tailed, they move faster, digest their food more quickly,

eat more often and gain the most weight. On the downside, the warmer the water the less dissolved oxygen it can hold.

Oxygen deprivation causes altered behavior in fish but this is a separate phenomenon and not the result of thermal discomfort.

Roger

FishinDaddy reply :

?Question?

I read somewhere that bass are more likely to bed on a western bank or shallow flat than the eastern side. Is there any truth to this?

FishinDaddy reply :

One more for RoLo,

What would you say is the major tell for spawning activity on Kissimmee?

LCpointerKILLA reply :

Quote
One more for RoLo,
What would you say is the major tell for spawning activity on Kissimmee?

Kissimmee? - Rock on brother

Catt reply :

The first requirement before a bass can spawn is its eggs must go through a gestation period which is the time required for the eggs to fully develop, until this length of time is reached that bass will not lay its eggs regardless of water temperature. Water temperature is only part of the equation not the entire equation; again look at power plant lakes where water temperature has been taken out of the equation and yet the bass still spawn on cue every year.

RoLo reply :

Quote
?Question?
I read somewhere that bass are more likely to bed on a western bank or shallow flat than the eastern side. Is there any truth to this?

I've never heard that one, but apparently someone believes that the morning sun favors spawning activity

Leeh, I never visualize bass in pursuit of a set of conditions, instead I believe that bass react in a predictable way

when those conditions come to the bass. Over the course of an annual cycle, all conditions come to all parts of the lake.

Roger

RoLo reply :

Quote
One more for RoLo,
What would you say is the major tell for spawning activity on Kissimmee?

Funny you should ask, I live practically across-the-street from the Big-K (13 min from Camp Mack).

As you probably know, the spawning season on Kissimmee can last as long as six months, and that's almost half a year ;D

Due to central Florida's windy winters and unstable springs, spawning activity is generally a roller-coaster ride.

Unfortunately every year seems to be different from the last.

I personally prefer the February/March period, especially during a warm front right after a sharp cold-snap :o

The hydrilla was coming back quite nicely on Lake Kissimmee, but then they launched a brutal spray program.

Finding hydrilla today is like it was after Hurricane Charley, like finding hen's teeth.

Roger

Catt reply :

Early Pre-Spawn:

Individuals or groups of bass begin making short reconnaissance trips into coves. Only when the water temperature is stable for a couple of days will any appreciable number of bass remain for long. Look for bass on main lake and secondary points

Mid Pre-Spawn:

Bass leave deep water drop-offs and enter protected coves; the majority of these fish will be males. The weather and water temperatures will still be unstable. Look for bass on feeding flats adjacent to deeper water.

Pre-Spawn:

Weather and water temperatures have became stable and large fluctuations of bass are now present in shallow water. Start looking for a solid bottom, Bass avoids soft, muck bottoms; instead they prefer to spawn on hard sandy bottoms, gravel or rocky banks, large boulders or even a fallen log or lily pad root.

Keep in mind pre-spawn bass will be looking to feed before they start looking to spawn

Low_Budget_Hooker reply :

Quote
Early Pre-Spawn:
Individuals or groups of bass begin making short reconnaissance trips into coves. Only when the water temperature is stable for a couple of days will any appreciable number of bass remain for long.

Keep in mind pre-spawn bass will be looking to feed before they start looking to spawn

This is something we learned by trial and error. We have a cove that is about 1-3 ft and takes up a good 15% of the acreage of the entire lake. This is the first place we go at ice out. Being the first water to warm (we assume), it is the first water to get any craws lethargically coming out of hibernation (we assume).

Fish come in and leave in waves of simialr size. You will hit 2-10 fish that look identical in the next 1/2 hour and then nothing. Gone. But hang tight, another recon group will be along eventually. If the first fish this time is 4 lbs, chances are the next few will be too,...and then nothing again.

This goes on for the warm window of the day (this is why we assume it is heat triggered) dawn and dusk,...nothing back there (or nothing feeding anyway)

For a few years, swimming a light jig seemed to be the winning lottery ticket. Last yr, after hitting on a Fluke, jig,senko and spinnerbait,....I realized it ain't so. I think these fish are willing to eat anything vulnerable at this time. They are in there to feed and warm up and if they see the food, they are in the mode to eat it.

Reading what Catt wrote in quotes brought me right back to that cove,8 months ago. Can't wait to be there again this April, it's a GREAT way to come back from a bad bout with cabin fever!!

Next step is to venture further up the line and find where they are hanging out in between trips to the back cove. That one is still eluding us.

Catt reply :

Don't misunderstand what I'm saying here, temperature has a lot to do with the spawn but it is not the only guiding light. Gestation period, water temperature, water depth, water clarity and moon phase all have to be factored in. I believe gestation period triggers the pre-spawn urge for bass to start moving out of winter habitat and into creek coves.

In my personal option if you want to catch that bass of a lifetime forget bedding bass and target pre-spawn fish. With bedding bass you are dealing with a bass that is not readily and actively feeding, where as with pre-spawn bass they are feeding on every thing. I would be willing to bet 90% of the anglers here don't have the patience required to fish bedding bass.

Give me pre-spawn bass anytime

Low_Budget_Hooker reply :

Quote
Don't misunderstand what I'm saying here, temperature has a lot to do with the spawn but it is not the only guiding light. Gestation period, water temperature, water depth, water clarity and moon phase all have to be factored in. I believe gestation period triggers the pre-spawn urge for bass to start moving out of winter habitat and into creek coves.
In my personal option if you want to catch that bass of a lifetime forget bedding bass and target pre-spawn fish. With bedding bass you are dealing with a bass that is not readily and actively feeding, where as with pre-spawn bass they are feeding on every thing. I would be willing to bet 90% of the anglers here don't have the patience required to fish bedding bass.

Give me pre-spawn bass anytime

Absolutely, I'm right there with you, I was solidifying your previous points with my own experiences. The fish we hit back there wont be dropping egg for another 6-10 weeks yet and they won't be doing it back there. They are back there feeding on the first critters that are waking up from a long winter. Temps in there can be 2-6 degrees different than the main lake for a few peak hours per day. Dark, silty bottom with sparse weed patches, protected from wind, it warms quickly. I think the sluggish food source (waking crays) trigger major feeding. Mother nature doing her stuff.

RoLo reply :

Quote
In my personal option if you want to catch that bass of a lifetime forget bedding bass and target pre-spawn fish. I would be willing to bet 90% of the anglers here don't have the patience required to fish bedding bass.

Right On, Catt

What's more, I wouldn't be surprised if 90% of the trophy bass that were believed to be taken during the spawn

were actually pre-spawn bass. Taking a cow bass off the bed is rarely an accident, it's an art that requires a concerted effort.

As Catt pointed out, Pre-spawn is King because during the spawn and post-spawn periods the cows are in a negative disposition.

In the same vein, rather than subdivide the spawning season into three subdivisions (pre-spawn - spawn - post-spawn)

the angler would be better served if he put the "pre-spawn" period under a microscope and broke it up into three subdivisions:

Early Pre-Spawn

Typically coincides with water temperatures in the lower 50s, but varying.

Both cow and buck bass are emerging from their winter torpor, and would be best described as agitated and spooky

yet quite catchable.

Mid Pre-Spawn

Typically coincides with water temperatures in the upper 50s, but varying.

Both cow and buck bass are noticeably active and more aggressive. Bass are highly mobile during the middle pre-spawn,

and trade freely back-and-forth between relatively deep and relatively shallow water.

Late Pre-Spawn

Typically coincides with water temperatures that sandwich 60 degrees, but varying.

During the "late" pre-spawn, both cow and buck bass are less mobile and more aggressive...it's Party Time!

Weather permitting, bass now adhere mostly to the spawning flats in 1 to 3 ft of water.

This is a very brief period, but since all bass do not spawn at once there's usually a generous overlap of sub-seasons

that provide the angler with a few weeks of late pre-spawn activity. The one bugbear during this time of year

are the frequent cold-fronts which quickly dampen the activity on the shallow spawning flats.

In any event, the late pre-spawn is trophy time (60 deg area), when the savvy angler puts in max hours on the water.

Roger

Catt reply :

I would now like to hear from Fish Chris, Mattlures, Randall, fourbizzle, Matt Fly, George Welcome, Raul, flechro, Alspter, Aint Texan & many others.

Matt Fly reply :

Good morning to all.

We will have some bedding bass starting on the power plant lakes in Dec. Science can only support the temperature on these impoundments, currently, days aren't long enough to use the photoperiod as the justified trigger.

I like to remember that ponds, rivers, creeks, power plants, old deep gravel pits, natural lakes, man made lakes will all have a few certain factors that won't be text book spawning conditions. So bass adapt to their conditions all over the states.

Great points made by Catt, Rolo, and LBH.

Rolo mentioned that a bass metabolism isn't stressed due to changing conditions, and that is so true. The fish that is stressed by unfavorable conditions are shad during winter and other small baitfish.

Winter and unfavorable conditions that arises due to brutal cold and cloud cover stress shadout. Cloud cover prevents the warm rays from penatrating and warming the waters. Shad will venture to the shallows on long periods of warming trends. They are seeking plankton blooms that occurs on warm days. One must also factor in cloud cover on day after warming trends, as long as no cold front has pushed through, the clouds on some days traps heat in and cloudy days can make for some good shallow fishing. Its not always text book!

One must realize in your region what bass feed on in the winter as there primary diet. There is nothing in the outdoors that can't be found if you know there feeding habits. Patience in the winter is key. A bass will no longer have to feed like they once did because as mentioned, their metabolism has slowed down. A bass can eat a 5 inch gizzard shad and not have to eat for 3-4 days, and again, its dictated on the bass metabolism as to how fast they diegest their food.

One is to seek warmer waters, areas that are void of good bassing activties in the summer may now be a hot bed for action. The "dead" water or unproductive areas. After brutal cold fronts, i like deep water adjacent/next to muddy bottoms on shallow flats on norther western banks. Mud asorbs heat rather easily and holds the heat better than most bottoms. Those protected banks we speak of in Texas are important, we get some brutal winds coming from the panhandle.

I can say from Cali experience in Socal, that protected banks aren't as important because they don't have the brutal cold fronts coming in very often, thus no factor.

So take in the regions you live in and the winter conditions that exist on your waters.

Does a cold front in Florida drop temps down enough to threaten small baitfish?

I think slow rolling an 1 oz spinner bait on bottom in prespawn/spawing waters in deeper water that is hard to see a bed is very key on finding the bigger females, and bigger females will spawn before text book conditions have arrived on most lakes. Big blades stirs the bottom up and will aggrivate a big bass in a heartbeat. key is to keep that bait skirting along the bottom, don't let it ride off bottom.

When the family needed to support our food bill in the 60's when only one income was the standard, I got to clean lots of fish, and when my dad cleaned fish, bass too, I got a little science from my DAD and got to see first hand what a fish eats. Cleaning fish and going CSI can tell you alot.

My dad flipped me a bass and said, " bet you this one has been eating crawdads." I was amazed to see he was spot on all the time. The bass had a reddish discolored mouth. Cleaning some river cats, most had skinned up noses, my dad said they are nosing rocks over in shallow rapids and feed on helgrimites.

Reading the water, the fish, and knowing the bait can keep you on fish year around. You can read all the years of experience shared on this forum, but getting on the water and applying it will eventually tie it all together.

I'm firm believer, as shad move to shallower water for warmth and planktons, so do bass. I think big jigs and slow rolled spinner baits are the ticket. Big bass love Crawdads, crawdads are important, they are high in protien and will provide the extra nourishment to finish developing those eggs.

Wildlife in general adapt to the conditions, and every year conditions may vary to some degree. You know the big buck you see in the early fall before hunting season opens. Seems that once shots ring out, they know to start moving at night or nocturnal. One year, the accorn crop dropped earlly and deer are feeding on acorns and not corn feeders, and when the acorns are gone, the feeders seem to be the ticket. Know what is on the menu.

Prime example of bass spawing in one area one year and not the next is eveident on some of Texas drought stricken lakes. Amistad as example was 50 to 60 feet low after 10 years of no rain. Bass will adjust every year if need be to fnd suitable spawing waters.

The giant females know that past season brings unwanted pressures to their spawing rituals, some simply stay deeper and don't go to the banks.

There are muliple schools that reside in shallows year around and deeper fish. Each moves according to their comfort levels. The bass I track normally are the deeper fish. My best strengths are in open deep water, as Catt mentioned, when that bite goes dorminant, its a good sign that the shad have started to seek some warmer water also.

Late Dec, Jan on Lake Fork, a simple tool to use is to go out on main lake where there is 100 boats crappie fishing. Jan 1. shad may be 32ft deep, and on Jan 3, they maybe 28ft. One simple pass by the crappie boats will give you the depth for deep water to look for bass.

When the crappie boats disappear, the shad are on the move and so are the bass and crappie. They are all seeking warmer water for reasons we know as prespawn.

Stay on the bait, they'll tell you when and where and when to start searching other areas.

This is the time of the year to catch a Personal Best and they fellows have given you prime areas to search.

I keep going back to KVD. You dont see him use plastics if he don't have to. I can't remember seeing him using jigs and such. You don't see him drop shottng and such. His whole game plan is to key in on bait fish. He uses a bait that mimics some type of forage.

Can you question his methods? They work year around and his accomplishments attest to his approach.

The only time I think a food source is not on the agenda is when they are taking care of business and nesting.

Know thy food sources on your home waters, its the key to finding the fish consistently whether they are in summer mode, fall or winter, prespawn.

Yesterday, L Train and myself hit a lake that hasn't been on my list for over a year. Larry mentioned he liked the jig, so we hit some boat docks for a good portion of the day. First time ever fishing together. Very little vegitation on this big lake.

We turned one fish on a cloud covered day. We think the fish were roaming with cloud cover and weren't holding of docks. We moved out and hit some points around roads and bridges and put some keepers in the boat.

Once the day was over, I asked if he minded if I made a pass over deep open water over some road beds off the bridges. As I mentioned to him where i thought the shad was holding. We found more bait balls in open deep water. There were tons of bait. AS we moved around, you could see the bait in a relaxed state as I pointed that out, and when I moved over channels, you could see bait that was pushed out of their comfort zones. Relaxed schools were at 23 ft and the shad that was been actively fed on with some huge arches under and on the sides, this bait was tight and only down to 12 feet. Some huge arches that I will be investigating soon.

Larry mentioned that he's not used to fishing deep open water, we will work on that.

Man, I love my graph.

Prespawn is the best time of the year, it has produced some of the all time biggest bass recorded. Texas state record was a prespawner in Feb that came from 40ft by a crappie fishermen on a mainlake point adjacent to the mouth of Little Caney creek.. Big Bass love to eat crappie too!!!\

I hope I didn't hi jack your thread Catt. Its a good one.

Catt reply :

Thanks Matt absolutely perfect

I checked the Sharelunker program which is bass over 13 pounds caught in Texas and out of 442 bass 166 were caught during winter conditions or pre-spawn. The months were the last week of November through February; I didn't count March since it is considered spawning time in Texas.

fishfordollars reply :

Well I just got back from the lake and read all of the post. I can say I agree with just about everything said. I prefer to fish for the prespawn instead and believe that it starts much earlier than most people think.

Mid 50 water temp has me fishing the first flats off the rivers on T Bend and Rayburn and any ditches that I can locate and the mouths of coves. Outer points and secondary points really come into play for me at this time of year. I am as bad as anyone about throwing a rattletrap. boy does it catch fish. You would think the fish would be sluggish but they will waylay a fast moving trap. The people that know me have always said if you don't know where the creeks are just look for Jack, he is never a cast from one. I don't necessary agree but I do know that most of my fish are on a break of some kind and when it comes to spring I believe that knowing where the ditches are that leave the creeks will get your arm or rod broken. A lot of people fish the grass and you can find them covering it up in the spring. I agree with this except I am not fishing the same grass. I tend to stay out sometimes several hundred yards and fish the isolated grass clumps and humps that most everyone else ignores. If you can locate these areas you tend to have them to yourself and this is where the first prespawners stage as long as there is a break, creek, or ditch that will guide them there.

As far as time of the year I began looking at the mouths of coves after an extended warming spell whether that is in January or even December. I hardly ever site fish. Too much pressure. I tend to fish the prespawners coming and going(Post spawners). I have caught fish up to 9 lbs. as late as June 11 that were loaded with eggs.

I believe that the moon has an awful lot to do with the major spawning and when it is full it draws the females to lock on the bed. All sight fisherman can have at it. I will get them either coming or going. Humps out in the lake are great spots to fish if you can locate them. When you hear that the fish have moved shallow, just remember that 10-15 ft. is shallow to a fish that has spent the winter in 30.

fishfordollars reply :

Catt, do you remember years ago when no one could locate the spawning fish and someone found them out in the middle of the lake spawing in the forks of the trees?

Matt Fly reply :

fishfordollars,

We have some big bass that spawn in the bonnets of some deep trees on Fork every year. Some of those trees down towards the dam are in 40 feet of water coming up to about 15.

I also think moon plays a big part, but we have so many fronts moving in, there are times its over cast for long periods, clouds and fronts always seem to interfer.

I'm kinda of getting pumped for a weekend on Fork.

fishfordollars reply :

Matt, I totally agree. The year the fish disappeared no one could figure them out until someone stumbled on them. It was amazing. these trees were in deep water. I don't remember the reason it happened but there were a ton of fish caught 5-8 ft over 30-40 ft of water. As far as the fronts go they can wreck havoc on a lot of bed fishing. I just prefer to stay out and fish for the ones moving in and out. I think a lot of people are actually bed fishing without realizing it. They are fishing stained water and cannot see the beds even though they are there. I also believe that a ton of the reallly big fish come on the bed and are long gone a lot earlier than most people think.

RoLo reply :

Very Interesting!

When you mull this whole thing over, you begin to realize how really unnatural those circumstances were.

I'm sure the cows in those mid-lake haunts were ripe with eggs, but how do we know that those bass were spawning,

or more to the point, how do we know that the bass spawned "successfully"?

In some lakes, a severe drought will erase all shallow flats and bays, but some cows still become ripe with eggs.

However the cows will randomly loose thier eggs, and since bass are nesters and not free-spawners the success rate

will be abysmal. This is one of the causes of those missing year-classes that nearly every lake seems to have.

The reason I ask is because in order for bass eggs to hatch successfully, there "must" be adequate photosynthesis (sunlight).

According to fish biologists, the mean depth for optimal photosynthesis (largemouth bass) is approximately 27 inches.

Of course, this will vary signficantly based on water clarity, but it's generally between 6 inches (murky) and 4 ft (very clear).

Roger

Catt reply :

The fertilization and hatching process requires the warmth provided by sunlight penetration which is why the fish migrate into shallow water (with the exception of deep, clear western reservoirs). Bass will bed generally in a foot to 6 feet of water. Ken Cook

"Toledo Bend is not a natural lake, in reality it is a flooded canyon that they put a dam in the lower end of. What this means is that the lake has a lot of flats out in the middle of the lake and when the lake is low these high spots can be great spawning locations. Also the fish have been known to spawn in the tops of the trees in 50 foot of water. Yes water level and conditions can be a major factor as to where you find you're staging fish." Tommy Martin

Keep in mind both temperatures and depths are a generalization not an absolute

Low_Budget_Hooker reply :

Very cool point about spawning in the trees!! Doesn't apply at my lake but certainly a great insight into the "spawn" equation!

Alpster reply :

Here in NJ the spawn will happen from about mid April to Mid June. I am convinced that although water temps and weather fronts, etc. are mild factors, that the biggest factor that prompts fish to spawning areas is plain old instinct. Most (even cold blooded) species have measurable gestation periods & seasonal cycles and some you can almost set your watch by them (see the red crabs of Christmas Island). It's obvious that the spawn happens later here than in warmer Southern climes, but I believe the 'instinct' cycles are still the same. Water temps, lunar phases, etc. are just the measuring sticks we use to get in sync with what nature is doing.

If I can find water temps of 55-60 degrees in less than 15' of water on any kind of structure during the 1st week in May, I will stop and fish a while. I did the same thing in LA when I lived there, just 6 or 7 weeks earlier. It's no accident that we will tackle Guntersville and Fork during the last week in March. The weather can push the cycles around a little, but they are still there and are somewhat predictable.

Ronnie

fourbizz reply :

Wow, guys, my brain hurts! You guys have it way more figured out then I do!

There seems to be a bunch of emphasis on the pre spawn and spawn in this post. I believe that the best swimbait bite of the whole year is post spawn. The fish are obviously not as big as they were a couple weeks before, but they are in shallow, warm water and they are ravenously hungry and need to expend as little energy as possible to get as much protein as possible. Fatty, big, dumb rainbow trout offers the best protein vs calories burned out here. But Gizzard Shad, Salmon, herring, or sunfish will probably be menu item #1 lacking trout.

I love sight fishing for spawning fish and this was the first year that I could really get into it because we had a very dry year and the water was clear. the two years before that we had record rainy seasons and most of the lakes were chocolate milk for the spawn.

I spent 2 days on a fish this year and never got her. Sight fishing is the hand to hand combat of the bass fishing war . My first female of the bed this year was a DD and since then, all I can think about is having another 6 hour stare down with one of those monsters. I will try to concentrate this year on fish in the 7-15 foot range because I feel that the majority of the GIANT fish out here are spawning early, very deep in our clear water lakes.

But anyway the real point I guess was that you shouldn't overlook post spawn as a prime big fish period. If you don't have the drive to throw big baits the rest of the year, that first month AFTER the spawn is when I would recomend big baits.

I'd like to hear Mattlures' take on some of this because I know that he is a good spring fisherman!

RoLo reply :

Quote
There seems to be a bunch of emphasis on the pre spawn and spawn in this post. I believe that the best swimbait bite of the whole year is post spawn.

Nice post FourBizz.

I totally agree with you, the post-spawn can be an excellent season for bass fishing. As a matter of fact, if I were asked to choose the very best period in Florida for "Topwater Action", I would pick the post-spawn period hands-down (late April/early May).

On the downside, tradition holds that cow bass are recouping during the post-spawn period and that certainly appears to be the case.

In Florida, the action during the post-spawn will consist almost exclusively of buck bass (bass under 6 lbs).

I can't speak for the others, but when I touted the pre-spawn period, I was referring only to trophy-class bass.

Roger

fourbizz reply :

We must be talking about a different part of the post spawn roger.

The time that I am talking about, the males will still be guarding the nest or fry.

Certainly when the female FIRST comes off the bed she is very neutral. But they can't recoup without food, and they can't waste what little energy they have left chasing 2" shad all over the place. Thats why I think that a very big, slow moving bait out around the first deepwater break or nearest point is the way to go.

But like I said, you guys definitely know more about this than me, just my thoughts/observations.

These fish were the first two fish after I stopped looking for bed fish, both too big to be males and spawned out. 5 FOW main lake points 8" trout bait.

Catt reply :

For me there are two times of the year when big bass are easiest to locate/catch; the first is pre-spawn and the second is when they have returned back home to deep structure. I really hate fishing during the actual spawn on Toledo Bend because most generally the lake is high which means the bass will be located deep within buck brush/button willows which are almost impenetrable. Unless you've have seen lakes such as Toledo Bend or Rayburn it is hard to understand how dense this shoreline brush actually is; try to get a mental picture of 15-25 yards of dense brush that if you were on foot you couldn't walk through.

Give me pre-spawn when the bass are staging outside of the brush or a full moon night on deep structure.

Catt reply :

This picture is not close up on the shoreline but if you look at the willow tree directly behind the boat; that is the actual shoreline. The short brush in front of the willow is buck brush which is where the bass will be located once the spawn begins.

Randall reply :

Quote
I would now like to hear from Fish Chris, Mattlures, Randall, fourbizzle, Matt Fly, George Welcome, Raul, flechro, Alspter, Aint Texan & many others.

Well, I dont know how I missed this one. Good stuff here. Everything that has already been said by Catt, RoLo, LBH, Fourbizz, Matt Fly, and most others here I have experienced and agree with. One thing to add is since its multiple reasons on when and why fish spawn when they do you can't take one thing like temp and figure out when it will start or when prespawn will start although if you fish a lake enough you will have a good idea of when they are likley to happen. Winter temps here in GA also have an effect on gestation period. For example if its been a cold winter, since bass are cold blooded ,the eggs take longer to develop and even if the temps hit the right temps for prespawn , spawn, etc and the photo period and time of year is right those fish still will not spawn until the eggs are ready. If its been a very warm winter the eggs develop faster and even if the water temps fall way below the usual prespawn and spawn temps come late winter or early spring the fish will still go into a prespawn stage. The key is putting all of this info together as well as the current lake conditions and knowing where and how to fish for the most and biggest fish. I also make a note during the winter of where the coolest water is in the lake so I have a clue as to where the last spawning and prespawn fish will be found. In many years this cooler water is in the deeper areas of the lake and in other years its the areas with the shallowest water in the lake depending on the weather.

I have also seen the quick warming shallow water areas that LBH is talking about and that's where I usually find the first prespawn fish but not always. These first ones are usually grouped by size and I can sit my boat on a migration route into shallow water and let the fish come to me without ever moving the boat at times. Last year I fished two small spots on one shallow creek channel going into the shallowest water in the lake for a month catching waves of these feeding prespawn fish. I never left the spots which were within 50 yards of each other until the day was over. I went there every morning and fished there all day. The fish just came in waves and you couldn't catch all the fish coming through into the shallows. It might turn off for fifteen to thirty minutes before the next wave came through. One day I never moved the boat for five hours and we never made a cast anywhere else except in one twenty foot by twenty foot spot. We had five that went around thirty-five pounds out of around fifty fish It was nice as a guide to fish for almost a whole month and fish two areas about 100 feet long each and never have to find any more spots to fish or worry about beating the same fish until they wouldn't bite. You got fresh active moving feeding fish that hadn't seen a bait all day long. In this area fish will not spawn because of the bottom makeup and after the last wave of feeders comes and the fish start to leave to build beds and spawn I have to go find more prespawners in another area or find some spawners but its fun while it lasts.

I don't think fish move shallow to recon a spawning site until they are ready to spawn. They move to feed and then move back out and suspend since the deeper water offers safety and the shallow water offers more food and ambush areas. I say this just based on where I have caught a few fish at different times and have seen the same fish caught in a prespawn area that wasn't near the area I found it spawning in later. And from just watching fish in clear water during prespawn and spawn. Its just a guess though and it don't really mater as long as I can find and catch them. ;)I don't care why they are there just that they are there and that they will bite.

On lake Varner the toughest time to catch a big female is during the spawn unless you are really good at fishing beds or really good at swimbait fishing. Our best bite for the biggest fish is usually when the water is 48-55 after that it's tough to catch the big ones. There are a bunch of reasons for this. One is that there is a lot of big forage in the form of big gizzard shad shallow with the bass and the bigger bass just need one big shad a day to feed on since the water is still cool and they aren't digesting very fast. This is where a big swimbait comes in but its a tough bite. There is also a lot of fishing pressure and moving fish which means the fish don't school as tight or in big numbers as they did when the water was cooler.

I have also seen the fish spawning shallow in deep timber over deep water and fish suspended just under the surface in deep open water during the spring. Most of the time I have seen this it is during a very fast warming period where the water makes a big jump from cold to warm temps in a couple of days time. I saw this last year during very erratic unstable weather during the spring. I could guess that the water warms so fast the fish just make a verticle move instead of having time to adjust and make a horizonal move shallow or that the deeper water is more stable but I am happy with just knowing to check for it when I see conditions that I can relate to that happend in the past. Good topic, posts and lots of things I could go on with but its past my bedtime.

RoLo reply :

A very interesting read Randall...as usual

Quote
We must be talking about a different part of the post spawn roger.
The time that I am talking about, the males will still be guarding the nest or fry.

I think we're both on the same page fourbizz.

Like you said, the role of the buck during the post-spawn is to protect the fry, and his aggressive disposition makes him especially vulnerable.

Meanwhile, the cow has completed her mission and leaves the shallow flat. ""Supposedly"" the cow retreats to somewhat deeper water

in a notoriously negative mood. You make an excellent point however...How can a cow recoup without eating?

I don't know answer to that question but one thing is sure,

the number of big cows that are reported during the pre-spawn period will decline dramatically during the post-spawn.

On the other hand, the Topwater Bite (consisting of bucks) gets into full swing during the post-spawn,

due to the winning combination of belligerent bucks in warm shallow water.

By the way, I don't buy that garbage about anybody knowing more than anyone else!

The great thing about fishing is that we all learn from one another, a process that goes on forever...and ever

Roger

guest reply :

Once a Female has spewed her eggs out onto the nest, can she still lay more on another nest?

fourbizz reply :

They can, will, and do!

RoLo reply :

Quote
Once a Female has spewed her eggs out onto the nest, can she still lay more on another nest?

You bet.

All the eggs of the cow do not ripen at once, which allows her to service more than one nest.

By the same token, practically every bed site will be visited by more than one cow.

For this reason, the difference between the pre-spawn, spawn and post-spawn is a hazy gray area.

The significant overlap makes it almost impossible to positively identify the current disposition of bass.

According to In-Fisherman, once the cow's hormones are on the wane she enters the post-spawn stage regardless of eggs that still remain.

Roe-laden cows taken from deep water are frequently mistaken for spawning bass, even though they may be done spawning.

We've all caught bass containing yellow roe "after" the cow has finished spawning. I think it was ouachitabassangler who wrote,

if she's only been sparingly selected by male bass, she may contain a substantial cache of leftover roe.

Roger

WRB reply :

Everyone can have an opinion, however the biological facts are fact based. LMB start to stage for pre spawn at the end of the cold water period. Adult female bass start to develope eggs shortly after spawning and the eggs remain dormant until hormones stirred by warm water start their development. Warm water is relative to the eccosystem, generally around 50 degrees in cold water environments. Staging or pre spawn in most lakes and rivers starts around 55 degrees, spawn at 62 to 67 degrees at the water depth the bass are using to spawn.

WRB

Catt reply :

Conventional knowledge indicates that the male bass builds the nest, fans it out and guards it (zealously). Generally, a good male that is aggressive and active will attract more than one female to his nest and spawn with each of them. Along with that, an active female will spawn a number of times and, in most cases, in a number of different males' nests. She moves down the shoreline making it with different males. The male sits in one spot and waits for more females to come by. I think that is sort of a hedge (on the part of the female) against an infertile male spoiling the hatch of a good fertile female. So she spread her eggs around and he spreads his fertility around. That ensures a higher success rate for that spawn.

That is important knowledge for fishermen, because most people think that once the female leaves the bed, only the male is left. It is true that the female only guards the nest for a short time before moving away, but other females will come to that nest. The other thing to keep in mind is that this isn't a long, drawn-out process. Once the water reaches the upper 60 degrees, which is ideal, it only takes about three or four days for the eggs to hatch. I think the male will spend about six weeks on the beds as the females rotate through, but the whole spawning season happens over three full moons, bringing a new wave of spawning with each full moon period.

Cook emphasizes that understanding the spawning habits of the female bass will significantly improve your chances of catching some of the biggest bass of the year. He believes that the female often moves on and off of the bed to deposit more eggs (hatchery studies support this claim). Few females drop all of their eggs at once. Instead, they expel a portion and then move off to a near by break line, bush or grass edge.

It is this sporadic purging of eggs and the ability to spawn with different males on several nests that keeps the annual spring bedding season from being severely impacted by large tournaments. Texas Parks & Wildlife Department biologist Clarence Bowling says studies have shown that a female (when handled properly) will simply locate a bed and an available male in the area where she is released and complete spawning.

Ken Cook, a former Oklahoma fisheries biologist

Catt reply :

I have resently recieved PM's on this subject and even though it's still winter this is an excellent read for those with cabin fever or those thoughts of the coming season!

George Welcome reply :

If I read this correctly, it seems what everyone is saying, is the spawn periods are different by location, and if you want to be real successful, then you best know your location real well.

I find the easiest way to sort our which period they are in is to sample the areas. For example, I know that in sunny south Florida, the prespawn period will have the bass moving from their summer regions to the outside areas of spawning locations. It doesn't take a thousand casts to figure if that is happening. At the same time I will test spawn areas to see if there is male activity of nest construction. Again, not a lot of casts to sort this out either.

The key is to know your lake, do some testing of the known areas, and you will find this whole process not difficult to keep up with.

On a lake that is unfamiliar local advise is worth 2000 casts. For example, on the Marsh/Farm we have many areas that look ideal for spawn activity, but only a few that really do. Without the knowledge of where, you could spend days locating these areas, and when you do it may be too late. Don't be too proud to ask.

Catt reply :

After receiving PMs on this subject I thought it only fitting to kick this thread back to the top

Paul Roberts reply :

Quote
If I read this correctly, it seems what everyone is saying, is the spawn periods are different by location, and if you want to be real successful, then you best know your location real well.
I find the easiest way to sort our which period they are in is to sample the areas. For example, I know that in sunny south Florida, the prespawn period will have the bass moving from their summer regions to the outside areas of spawning locations. It doesn't take a thousand casts to figure if that is happening. At the same time I will test spawn areas to see if there is male activity of nest construction. Again, not a lot of casts to sort this out either.

The key is to know your lake, do some testing of the known areas, and you will find this whole process not difficult to keep up with.

On a lake that is unfamiliar local advise is worth 2000 casts. For example, on the Marsh/Farm we have many areas that look ideal for spawn activity, but only a few that really do. Without the knowledge of where, you could spend days locating these areas, and when you do it may be too late. Don't be too proud to ask.

Ditto.

I fish small ponds, and the same is true there. Two ponds, side by side, might be a week or more apart in timing. Appears to be due, mostly, to unequal heating. Change something drastically between the two, like volume, and the difference could be weeks, or more. As to the fishing, all kinds of unforeseen things can appear. Gotta be there to keep on the pulse.

I'll potentially have open water in about three weeks. I start with ice-out winterkill checks, and then stay on 'em as much as I can.

Hemi6677 reply :

My head is buzzing with the amount of knowledge that is in this thread. Although I fish ponds and creeks 99% of the time this information is invaluable and worth it's weight in gold to any angler.

I sincerely say THANK YOU for sharing this information. Now if I only lived in Cali, Florida or Texas and have the lunkers you guys get to see everyday. :-/

RoLo reply :

WOW, a blast from the past!

Hey Catt, those were the good ole days when we kept things simple ;D

Roger

Catt reply :

One of the best pure & simple collaboration on this subject

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