Interesting point of view! 2024

Catt reply :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ADwu26jiaY

Paul Roberts reply :

In my bass fishing I'd noted mature bass activity around the full moon in spring and wondered if it were a real thing, or if I was biased. I thought the statistics around catch data I'd seen presented here and there were far from convincing. And the sheer number of moon phase theories out there (many touted by accomplished anglers) didn't make sense; They cover the entire lunar cycle!

The moon phase question around the spawn was one question I thought I could get at by direct observation. I've got three years of observations so far and it is looking like the full and new (weaker so far) moons do serve to synchronize spawning timing. This likely explains catch rates at these times, as visible bass are most vulnerable -no sonar needed. This is very true in the waters I fish, for most anglers. (But I prefer early pre-spawn for numbers of mature females.)

As to the rest of the year, I dunno -Haven't looked into it, and don't really know how to exclude competing variables inherent in angling. Doug Hannon is sold on lunar phases though the year (for very large bass). Ralph Mann's is not (six years of tournament and personal fishing data). My own guess is that bass (at least normal sized mature bass) have more immediately important things to deal with in trying to capture a meal. Uniquely large bass that can feed at will (if they indeed can) is also an open question.

Sam reply :

Used to raise Macaws.

Their instincts were exceptional when you think they were hand raised and had never left our house or the houses of the people who bought them.

They knew when to breed and how to act as wild birds but were never around wild birds.

I can see what Paul means about the moon phases and the bass.

Instincts are really strong in wild animals.

sal669 reply :

I don't care about any facts/ believes/superstitions about any species of fish. If I have time, my "honney-do" list is empty and the weather is acceptable (no tunderstorms or super cold), I'm going fishing.

Matt Fly reply :

You can't go wrong in using lunar cycles as part of the equation to help catch bigger bass. It can't hurt your odds any.

I'd also like to point out, on Lake Fork, you can bet that the top guides have been booked in advance to coincide with the moon phase.

Further adding to the belief, you'll see Fork peak in number of fishermen coinciding with the moon phase.

WRB reply :

The increased activity level in bass during full moon lunar phases during the spawning period are well known. The fact that both January and February coinsides with Florida's pre spawn and spawning periods shouldn't be a big surprise that big bass are being caught at the time year. Peak fishing times are generally considered to be the 3 days before and after the full moon; extending the time additional 5 days or 8 days after the full moon is within reason.

In southern California the prime time is February and March, during the 3 days before and after the full moon phases of pre spawn and spawning periods for giant bass activity.

All my giant bass over 16 lbs were caught between January and March, so I agree Glenn.

WRB

SLO_ROLL reply :

O Man here we go, this is a touchy subject some think its the deal others dont. I keep a record but just started with the moon phase thing. That footage is off "Big Mouth" when I watch that I go nuts. I wish Glenn would film "Small Mouth"

Pigsticker reply :

Quote
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ADwu26jiaY

Don't they burn people at the stake for saying that? I think it is called heresy

Minuteman reply :

Quote
....That footage is off "Big Mouth" when I watch that I go nuts. I wish Glenn would film "Small Mouth"

That is a very well done video, I'm stocking up on books and videos for the winter. Gonna look that up.

Catt reply :

Statistics from Texas Share A Lunker Program (bass 13# plus)

206 were caught 4 days on either side of the New Moon

236 were caught 4 days on either side of the Full Moon

442 of 455 bass were caught 4 days on either side of the Full Moon & New Moon

roadwarrior reply :

Quote
Statistics from Texas Share A Lunker Program (bass 13# plus)
206 were caught 4 days on either side of the New Moon

236 were caught 4 days on either side of the Full Moon

442 of 455 bass were caught 4 days on either side of the Full Moon & New Moon

Coincidence? I don't think so!

Man, those are some pretty significant numbers.

8-)

DADto4 reply :

Quote

Quote
Statistics from Texas Share A Lunker Program (bass 13# plus)
206 were caught 4 days on either side of the New Moon

236 were caught 4 days on either side of the Full Moon

442 of 455 bass were caught 4 days on either side of the Full Moon & New Moon

Coincidence? I don't think so!

Man, those are some pretty significant numbers.

8-)

Those are also some pretty significant people getting those stats

I say trust 'em ;D

I also have the bigmouth video and others to satisfy the winter blues!

If you don't I highly suggest getting them...

paul. reply :

i agree totally with the moon phase stuff. aside from the location an angler chooses to fish, i really believe there are at least 4 "optimums" that play a role in an angler's ability to catch big numbers of bass or a huge bass. i say "at least" because there are other factors to that may vary in importance from region to region.

1. optimum moon conditions (as detailed here already)

2. optimum weather/frontal conditions (being on the "right side" of a frontal system")

3. optimum water temperature and conditions.

4. optimum seasonal phase or period (pre-spawn - spawn)

now here's where it gets interesting to me. while catches can significantly improve during any one of these optimums, i always like what i call "overlapping optimums". in other words periods where at least 2 of these optimums occur simultaneously. of course it stands to reason that the more optimums that overlap, the better the fishing is likely to be. that's why spring fishing usually produces the best catches for most fisherman, because at any given time, there is usually at least one of these "optimums" going on, with several days where potentially all of them could overlap. of course all the optimums in the world are useless if you overlook the most important optimum - choosing the optimum location(s) to fish during a given day. that's my .02 anyway. figure out if there are any more optimums that might apply to your body of water and add them to the list. then look for those overlaps and do everything you can to be on the water during those times. usually you will be glad you were.

great post catt and a classic video for sure.

Catt reply :

Very well explained paul

One also has to understand these optimums/ key conditions do not guarantee success, they do however greatly increase you odds.

FYI there is 2 videos!

Muddy reply :

Hey Catt: That accounts for 8 days ouit of the month., I want to say here I believe in the moon phase, activity connection

But I would like to see the charts and see if any other 4 day sequences come close, as that would tell if those days really stick out or not.

Catt reply :

Muddy just looking at the Share-A-Lunker data there were only 13 of the 455 bass caught during minor moon phases. Again you must remember this does not mean instant success it does however mean increased odds; this data do not take into account weather, seasons, or your ability to locate fish!

There is no single controlling factor because any one of them can be overridden by another; example weather conditions can override moon phases. Another fact I would like to make clear is just because we are talking moon phases we are not talking strictly night fishing. Many anglers associate the moon with night time but if y'all look out the window right now the moon is up.

Muddy reply :

Thanks Tom, I was interested in the weather angle. Soem of the things you fellas have taught me are sinking in and I do not want to think that I am doubting here, only asking a question. You and RW wrote on a thread that how the weather has been 4 days before you go fsihing was very impotant and I was wondering if the moon and the weather coincided for those results.

Catt reply :

Muddy I wish it gave more info; I'm in the process of sorting out data from tournament fished on Toledo & Rayburn over the last seven years & it does list weather conditions, water temps, but not moon phases so I'll have to look those up myself.

tyrius. reply :

Quote
Hey Catt: That accounts for 8 days ouit of the month., I want to say here I believe in the moon phase, activity connection

It's actually 16 days out of a moon cycle. 4 days before new moon, 4 days after new moon, 4 days before full moon, and 4 days after full moon.

It could also be 18 days if you count the new moon and full moon days separately.

Paul Roberts reply :

Quote
Statistics from Texas Share A Lunker Program (bass 13# plus)
206 were caught 4 days on either side of the New Moon

236 were caught 4 days on either side of the Full Moon

442 of 455 bass were caught 4 days on either side of the Full Moon & New Moon

Actually, that's 18 days of the month (wooops, Tyrius beat me to it). This is where other apparently sound catch/moon data crumbles -at least over the full year.

What we can say from this ShareLunker data is that 97% of these fish were caught in 64% of a lunar month (28 days). That's not as strong as it at first appears, but the strongest I've seen so far. It's a pretty good sample size and it's distributed over a number of years.

However, as Muddy mentions, there are other questions that could be asked: How are weather fronts distributed through those catches? And how is angling effort distributed through the lunar month?

But, primary among such questions would be: Are there certain years that skew the data? That is, are there some years when MOST of these behemoths were caught? (These are year classes after all). This would make other factors (such as weather and angling effort) weigh in heavier.

Still, as I said above, from what I've seen I believe the moon does play a role in coordinating spawning. And this probably really does account for a good share of the ShareLunker catch data.

Tom, how many of these fish were caught outside of the spawn?

Muddy reply :

DAHHH!!! This is why I am having a hard way to go with College Algebra, I think too fast for reason to set in :-/

You don't know how many times Catt and Paul had to point me to the most important sentences in their posts!

sal669 reply :

If there is a prooven fairness of fisherman hours equaly distributed over the entire year( not only spawning period), those numbers have significance. Otherwise NOT.

I've been on the water time and again on favorable lunar position and I strugled, and I've been fishing in not favorable solunar condition with great results (for my level and geografic location). I am not talking spawning here, when bass looses common sense and instinct of preservation in favor of reproduction, but year arrond.

On an other note, if somebody decides to make a time and financial sacrifice, travel to a lake, hire a guide for the sole purpose of catching a big , heavy bass, he/she will definitely try to have all the aces stacked in his/her favor. The fact that the guides are booked early for the favorable solunar phases showes that people believe in this theory.

I wander if there fishing effort is the same in favorable and not favorable lunar periods. One might say " hey, I'd better take care of the front yard now , because next week is full moon and the fishing will be better".

Just another $.02

Catt reply :

Paul what you have to consider when asking how many of these fish were caught outside of the spawn is the fact that the total number of anglers on the water during the pre-spawn to spawn months quadruple other times of the year. Other times of the year when this occurs are Memorial Day weekend, Labor Day weekend, 4th of July week, and other such holidays.

As stated previously Moon Phases only increase your odds of doing well but you still have to factor in other conditions such as weather, water temperatures, seasons, locations ect. Being a retired angler I can pick-n-choose my days on the water for the most part and as paul. mentioned I try to pick days when 2 or more of these key conditions exist.

Paul Roberts reply :

Quote
Paul what you have to consider when asking how many of these fish were caught outside of the spawn is the fact that the total number of anglers on the water during the pre-spawn to spawn months quadruple other times of the year. Other times of the year when this occurs are Memorial Day weekend, Labor Day weekend, 4th of July week, and other such holidays.

Yeah, that's not surprising. Just wondering if there are enough outside the spawn season to say anything about moon phase then. I'm pretty comfortable with moon influence during the spawn, but haven't a clue outside of the spawn. Not much data based info out there that I've seen, beyond Hannon's and Manns'. Just wondering is all.

SLO_ROLL reply :

Want more confusion? Now I'm not saying that these are not good reading because I truly loved reading them.

http://www.amazon.com/Pursuit-Giant-Bass-Bill-Murphy/dp/0963312006

http://www.outdoortexas.com/jbassbk.htm

http://www.amazon.com/Big-Bass-Zone-Catch-Monster/dp/0883173131

WRB reply :

When you look at listing of big bass catches, the vast majority will be pre spawn and spawn bass. The fact that these big bass move up to spawn during the 6 day period of the full moon; 2 days before, 2 days during and 2 days following, should coinside with catch dates. The reason is the bass are moe active during those days and vulnerable to be caught.

Looking at the top 25 Texas bass, only 4 were caught outside of the spawning / pre-spawn period. Another interesting fact is no bass over 15 lbs is listed from Texas since 1999. That doesn't mean none have been caught, it's just the listed data.

I also see that my bass are no longer listed in the top 25 nationally? and re submitted photos etc to be reinstated. Just because the bass aren't listed, doesn't mean they don't exist. That is why I don't put too much faith into what listed Texas as being current.

It has been my experience that few fisherman are out on the water targeting pre spawn bass during rainy weather and that is prime time. The low light conditions and quite lake is a big advantage to the trophy bass fisherman.

WRB

Catt reply :

Ok Paul you're making me work now but here it is broke down even farther

Outside the Spawn: 193

During the Pre-spawn: 86

During the Spawn: 176

WRB exactly,

I know for a fact that many bass over 10# caught yearly on Toledo Bend are not known of outside a ring of local anglers from both the Texas & Louisiana sides. Why I do not know but for some reason the keep this information secret, I can only guess it is to guard Honey Holes.

Paul Roberts reply :

Thanks, Tom. I had further questions so I decided instead of asking you to do more work, that I should just pony up and do some of the work myself. So, I found the ShareLunker database and looked at it.

First, I found that data outside the spawn are pretty much not available numbers offered are really small. This is from the ShareLunker site:

Note: ShareLunkers are accepted October 1 through April 30, when they are most likely to spawn. Prior to 1992, the program accepted a few bass caught at other times of year.

(Realize that this whole period isn't when bass are spawning, but when they contain eggs, that can be matured in the hatchery for the program).

I chose to define the full and new lunar phases as +/- 3days = 7 days, or ¼ of the 28 day lunar month. It makes sense to break down the month this way, as other angler theories suggest quarter moons have influence (i.e. Bill Murphy). Thus, I allotted a ¼ month to each phase, reducing overlap of potential effects. Plus, the old In-Fisherman analysis did this too. I don't really understand the +/-4days as this dips into the quarter moon time frames and occupies too much of the month. Further, I figure if the full and new moon really have a strong effect then they should show up within the 7days allotted for each -pretty generous I think. In fact, from my pond observations so far it appears that it's the day of and after the full and new moons when activity is concentrated (right on spawning sites), so the extra days I suppose give anglers an opportunity to capitalize on a lunar based movement.

There was no significant difference between full and new moons, excepting possibly April but the sample size was really too small (28 fish: 64% full moon, 36% new). So, I was able to lump full and new moons as lunar influence.

Here's the breakdown by month showing % caught +/-3d of full or new moons.

Oct 50% (6)

Nov 38% (8)

Dec 41% (17)

Jan 31% (45)

Feb 53% (104)

Mar 50% (199)

Apr 25% (72)

You can see that, at best, 53% of ShareLunker bass were caught during the periods of lunar influence, or 50% of the lunar month.

Feeling that the lunar influence should be greatest during the spawn, I tried separating the spawn window data as best I could (from a distance here). Realizing the variable nature of spawning timing within large water bodies, and over the ShareLunker waters in the big state of Texas, I broke out best fit pre-spawn and spawning windows: Dec and Jan for prespawn (obviously some fish will have begun to spawn then, but likely most will be prespawn, and Feb and Mar for the spawn window.

It turns out that for the spawn period (Feb/Mar) 51% of the bass were caught during a full or new lunar phase, which happens to be 50% of the lunar month. For the prespawn period (Dec/Jan), only 34% were caught during the lunar phases. Even if we lump all four months as spawn the value would be even lower.

So, even without the added affect of likely increased angler effort during the full and new moons, the correlation to the moon phases is essentially non-existent.

Does this mean that bass don't respond to the full and new moon during the spawn? No, it doesn't. As I said above, I believe (so far) that there is a real effect, one that serves to synchronize the spawn. However, this once again, just doesn't show up in catch data. This highlights how difficult it is to assess biological activity by hook and line.

OK, what am I failing to take into account here?

WRB brings up some really good points.

Catt reply :

Paul you need to review your data again, your totals show 451 bass while there were only 455 bass entered into the program. Also I don't know why but the designator for new moon is list as N, N+, FQ, the same from the full moon.

Anyway you slice it 442 of 455 bass were caught 4 days on either side of the Full Moon & New Moon regardless of time of year.

Paul Roberts reply :

I sorted the data using the advanced search feature on the SL site. Four missing fish is nominal. ... I found the four missing fish: There were only 4 fish entered in the program outside the months I used (Oct-Apr): Jul (1), Aug (2), and Sep (1). That's why I tallied 451, instead of the full 455.

Yeah, how they slice the lunar month sure matters. I assumed FQ was "First Quarter". Will look at it again. But first, I have to play "set 'em up and knock down" with my little one.

OK, I'm back. I lost. That little boy of mine has wicked aim .

I believe that FQ and LQ are "First Quarter" and "Last Quarter". And F and N are "Full" and "New". Then they designate -4, -3, -2, -1, +1, +2, ...etc for days before and after. I only tallied the F and N (-3 to +3). Oh and btw, for those that might be confused by what "first quarter" means; It's not a quarter moon, but a half moon, and the "first" or "last" quarter of the lunar month (meaning 7 day periods).

I believe my analysis stands. I'm quite surprised actually. I'd have expected some semblance of a lunar effect in the catch data, at least explainable by effort around those times, if anything.

One could look for trends elsewhere. But with ~50% of catches falling over 50% of the month, that leaves the other 50% falling on the quarter moons. Either the FQ and LQ are equal in effect, or Bill Murphy was on to something with his pre-FQ idea -although this was not specifically pertaining to the spawn.

I'm betting that there is lunar influence, at a biological level, but that it's effect is somehow masked by competing factors. Some of these could be: lost in the broad geographical range, weather, female bass distracted by spawning, influence is only within a day or two of N and F, length of time females are on the spawning flats as the moon appears to initiate a wave, but not control it after). Regardless, angling is a tough way to discern biological activity -too many variables, esp across such a large region.

Catt reply :

The moon's phases are divided into four quarters, two of which are your minor times, and two of which are your major times.

The times for the major periods are as follows

An hour and a half prior the moon reaching its apex

An hour and a half prior to the moon reaching its perigee

The major periods are the first quarter new moon and the third quarter full moon.

The gravitational pull of the sun and moon is three times greater on the new moon than the full moon. At the time of the new moon the earth has the moon and the sun in a straight line pulling together.

The times for the minor periods of these moon phases are as follows

An hour and a half prior to the raising of the moon on the horizon.

An hour and a half prior to the setting of the moon.

Now take into consideration the above listed times you end up with 3 hrs. of major time periods and 3 hrs. of minor times periods.

Now using this information and the SAL data the FQ stands for First Quarter or new moon and so does the letter N.

Paul Roberts reply :

Apogee (furthest) and perigee (closest) do not coincide with the moon phases, although they sometimes nearly do. The ShareLunker (SL) moon data doesn't note either.

Moon rising (moon up) and setting (moon down) are daily events and are not provided on the SL site. Nor are time of day each fish was caught provided to even use this information.

I believe the SL site simply provides moon phases only: New (N), Full (F), First Quarter (FQ), and Last Quarter (LQ).

Here's an example from the site:

Complete List of Budweiser ShareLunker Entries (455)

# Date Angler Name Home Town Weight Length Girth Water Body Record? Caught On Day of Week Moon Phase

1 11/26/1986 Mark Stevenson Dallas, TX 17.67 27.5 24 Lake Fork Stanley jig Wed LQ+2

2 01/06/1987 Mikel Athon Grand Prairie, TX 13.04 24.75 21 Lake Fork Stanley jig Tue FQ

3 01/23/1987 Darrell Gadberry Ennis, TX 13.02 24.25 21.25 Fairfield Lake Stanley jig Fri LQ+1

4 01/25/1987 Dan Berg Hilltop Lakes, TX 13.59 25 21.25 Private Lake Hilltop Shiner Sun LQ+3

5 03/01/1987 James Bean Gilmer, TX 13 24.75 21 Bob Sandlin Stanley spinner Sun N+1

6 03/01/1987 Bob Zerr San Antonio, TX 13.1 23.25 23.75 Private Lake Black lizard Sun N+1

7 03/02/1987 Stan Ritter Cathage, TX 14.21 25 22.5 Murvaul Black worm Mon N+2

8 04/19/1987 Dennis Canada Farmers Branch, TX 15.54 27 21.5 Lake Fork Shiner Sun LQ-1

9 01/15/1988 Troy Johnson Houston, TX 16.13 26 24 Gibbons Creek Reservoir Lake Shad Rap Fri F

...

Quote
The major periods are the first quarter new moon and the third quarter full moon.
The gravitational pull of the sun and moon is three times greater on the new moon than the full moon. At the time of the new moon the earth has the moon and the sun in a straight line pulling together.

I'm not sure I'm understanding you. I know what the New and First Quarter are. What's a "first quarter new"? Are you saying that the peak times are FQ to N, and LQ to full, that is, the approach to the new and full? That's not what you first presented:

Quote
206 were caught 4 days on either side of the New Moon
236 were caught 4 days on either side of the Full Moon

442 of 455 bass were caught 4 days on either side of the Full Moon & New Moon

Forgive me if I'm not understanding something.

Catt reply :

Apogee & Perigee has two different definitions

Apogee:

1. The point in the orbit of the moon or of an artificial satellite most distant from the center of the earth.

2. The farthest or highest point; the apex

Perigee:

1. The point in the orbit of the moon or of an artificial satellite most distant from the center of the earth.

2. The closest or lowest point

Ok now you're confusing me

New Moon, First Quarter, Full Moon, and Last Quarter phases are considered to be primary phases and their dates and times are published. It is not ¼ of the 28 day lunar month since there is only one day listed as new, first quarter, full, or last quarter.

Muddy reply :

I would like to say that the posts between Catt and Paul Roberts have taken things to a new level here onBR.Com. It is really a wealth of knowledge , from two different and knowledgable fisherman. FOR THE GOOD OF OUR WHOLE COMMUNITY : I for one have benifited from this and would like to thank both of them for finding common ground and picking apart things that make my head hurt. THANKS FELLAS 8-)

Paul Roberts reply :

Catt Wrote:

Quote
New Moon, First Quarter, Full Moon, and Last Quarter phases are considered to be primary phases and their dates and times are published. It is not ¼ of the 28 day lunar month since there is only one day listed as new, first quarter, full, or last quarter.

I guess I'm viewing it this way:

I'm looking at influence of Full and New, because these have the most lore associated and the greatest gravitational effect. I'm allowing for 3days either side to represent each, which in turn represents 14 days (or ~1/2) of the lunar month. One could also look at +/-3d of the first and last quarters (the half moons), which together represent the other half of the lunar month -that outside of the New and Full.

I found that in doing this, ~50% of the SL bass were caught in 50% of the lunar month -3days either side of F and N. There are lots of other things that could be looked at, but I can't find a correlation here with this catch data, with the parameters I set. And my feel is, that with the F and N getting knocked out, that this database isn't terribly promising, as is.

My wife, a statistician at one time, suggested I could look at 2 days either side (and one day), which would further isolate the F and N moons from the "rest of" the lunar month, and see if anything pops out. Worth a look I suppose.

But, my guess is "angling" (with lots of anglers, esp over a large geog range -a large lake, much less a state) just isn't a good measure of what's happening in the water. Now, this may not be the case with one angler who understands and has adapted to the requirements of fishing with the moon. Thus, this analysis is not dissing the moon and those who follow it (I do -in the spring). It just points out the difficulties inherent in "catch data" -data that didn't follow a rigorous experimental design.

Catt brings up some really good points: Among them that there are other lunar ideas out there -one of special note is "moon up/moon down" promoted by Doug Hannon. It's of special note because he claims to have put his personal catch data to this question. Now, as far as I know, this data has not been made available for scrutiny. This makes the claim an asterisk, and not necessarily to be believed hands down.

Oh yes, for those who might be wondering: The apogee (farthest to the Earth) and perigee (closest to the Earth) refers to the Moon's elliptical orbit through the course of which the moon passes (slightly) closer or farther from the Earth.

Catt reply :

The time between two full moons (and between successive occurrences of the same phase) is about 29.53 days (29 days, 12 hours, 44 minutes) on average.

You're dividing the month into equal parts of 7 days for each quarter of 28 days, so what do you do with the other 1 day, 12 hours, 44 minutes?

If some of y'all decide not to agree with lunar effects that's fine; the rest of us will continue to agree with the lunar effects and continue to have a higher success rate then y'all.

Oh yea for farther proof ask any hunters here if it works or people in farming or people in animal husbandry.

Paul Roberts reply :

Catt, I'm not arguing with you. It's a great discussion and has had me looking further into lunar stuff. I'm not disagreeing with lunar influence on the spawn either.

Please re-read my last post, as I was in process of modifying it when you posted.

As to the 28 vs 29.5 days: The extra day and a half can't be divided and considering that we hit the "best fit" period of F and H influence, it's not significant. The point here is +/-3days (yielding a 28day lunar month) is more accurate than a +/-4days, which yields a 36 day lunar month.

I'll re-post it here:

Quote
But, my guess is "angling" (with lots of anglers, esp over a large geog range -a large lake, much less a state) just isn't a good measure of what's happening in the water. Now, this may not be the case with one angler who understands and has adapted to the requirements of fishing with the moon. Thus, this analysis is not dissing the moon and those who follow it (I do -in the spring). It just points out the difficulties inherent in "catch data" -data that didn't follow a rigorous experimental design.

Muddy reply :

Hey ; It seems there is a lot of divsion in the fishing world Some stuff I read:

This is from TEXAs here is the quote that caught my eye, about Lake Fork:

We examined whether mean weight and body condition (Wr) varied as a function of year, season, moon phase, or time of day when the fish was caught. Preliminary analyses suggest mean weight and body condition of trophy bass caught during winter (December February) were significantly higher than during all other seasons, while trophy bass mean weight and body condition during summer (June August) were significantly lower than during all other seasons. Additionally, more trophy bass were caught per day during full moon periods than other moon phases, but this was only significant during fall months.

Here is the link:http://www.sdafs.org/reservoir/projects/proj0206.html

And the rest>>>

http://www.in-fisherman.com/magazine/exclusives/if0802_GiantBass/index.html

http://www.weather.com/activities/recreation/outdoors/fishing/fishingarticle.html

This one is a professionaly done, per reviewed research paper. It's on fish behavior/lunar time in general. Here is the HTML link

This is the html version of the file http://www-heb.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/congress/2004/Rhythm/4HerreroInfluence.doc.

http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/research/updates/issues/january-2008/how-the-moon-affects-fish-activity

Way too much for me to read, Paul this list should keep you busy

http://fishlab.nres.uiuc.edu/Publications.html

There are divesified o ideas out there, big time! Many seem to pay attention to the moon, but weather seems to be the main factor.I am not versed enough to have an idea of what the answer is, but I found a lot to read over the winter :

Catt reply :

If it is 7 days between quarters at what point does the effect stop being of the one and change to the other?

You can not just throw out the additional 1 day, 12 hours, 44 minutes!

Oh yes, for those who might be wondering: The apogee and perigee refers to the Moon when it is directly over head and directly underfoot. We have a moon rise, a moon reaching its apex (directly over head), a moon set, and a moon reaching its perigee (directly underfoot). Because while the moon orbits earth the earth orbits the sun while spinning on its axis.

Paul Roberts reply :

Phew...I guess I've said my peace.

But, for accuracy sake:

Catt Wrote:

Quote
Oh yes, for those who might be wondering: The apogee and perigee refers to the Moon when it is directly over head and directly underfoot. We have a moon rise, a moon reaching its apex (directly over head), a moon set, and a moon reaching its perigee (directly underfoot). Because while the moon orbits earth the earth orbits the sun while spinning on its axis.

This is actually called the ecliptic (which happens every lunar day), not the perigee/apogee, which happens once a lunar month.

Muddy reply :

Paul: Rule # 1; You are never gonna win a "discussion" with a Cajun, never. You would have better luck with a PMS ing woman

Paul Roberts reply :

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Paul: Rule # 1; You are never gonna win a "discussion" with a Cajun, never. You would have better luck with a PMS ing woman Smiley

Believe it or not, I'm not trying to "win" anything. This isn't personal. I have as much stake in the moon question as every other angler. I can't let a poor dataset cloud the issue.

Rule#2: "Statisticians" don't argue. They let the numbers do the talking.

Maybe someone else should run 'em. Maybe they'll find something I missed, or screwed up on. Then I'll happily shut up.

Powerworm reply :

Cool

Catt reply :

Paul is absolutely right there is no one trying to win anything; it is just a healthy discussion between friends.

As for the SAL data it was never intended for scientific research, I question some of it's accuracy with the exception of the size of the bass.

Something else that clouds the issue is the fact that in the beginning the first quarter was the new moon with the third quarter being the full moon but some where over the years it changed. There were originally only four quarters then that changed to nine phases and now it is 23 phases.

Ecliptic:

The intersection plane of the earth's orbit with the celestial sphere, along which the sun appears to move as viewed from the earth.

A great circle inscribed on a terrestrial globe inclined at an approximate angle of 23°27 to the equator and representing the apparent motion of the sun in relation to the earth during a year.

The confusion is coming from viewing the definition from a lunar month stand point and not a lunar day plus the fact modern science decided to change ancient definitions.

Again I will say I relish Paul and my discussions along with Raul, and Rolo where ever he when; that not to say I don't enjoy others as well.

Paul Roberts reply :

Yeah, this is good stuff. Great to be able to hash it out with thoughtful anglers. Appreciate it very much. Catt, thanks for putting it out there.

Catt Wrote:

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As for the SAL data it was never intended for scientific research, I question some of it's accuracy with the exception of the size of the bass.

This is the key point, in terms of that dataset.

I also made a mistake in definition:

Hannon's moon up/moon down refers to the moon being directly overhead and underfoot, as Catt had suggested, and not moon rise and set as I'd said. This location of the moon in relation to the Earth provides the gravitational pull that creates ocean tides, roughly every 12 hours (the Earth rotates over 24hrs), but the intensity and actual periodicity varies (greatly!) depending on where you are on the Earth (and other more complicated stuff too -the solar system is a big place).

WRB reply :

While I'm a advocate of bass increasing their feeding activity during specific lunar periods; both full and new moon, seasonal periods and weather play equally important roll in big bass catch rates.

Nothing in aminal behavior is abosute, however using the law of averages helps you take advantage of behavioral trends.

We should be able to agree that the 12 lunar days; 2 before, 2 during and 2 after the full and new moon are active feeding periods. Exactly when during those lunar periods will be best, isn't predicable, due to both weather and boat traffic conditions. However, if you are on the water fishing, your chances will be a lot better, than sitting at home, where you have no chance.

To try and answer the question why trophy bass fisherman do not report their catches; Most will report their personal best or to promote themselves or a product. Ohterwise all you do is alert fisherman that you are catching big bass and they will find a way to locate where you are fishing. The whale that surfaces, gets harpooned.

WRB

Catt reply :

I prefer 2 days before the full/new moon, the day of the full/new moon, & 2 days after the full/new moon for a total of 5 days. Next give me the same 5 days with stable weather be it hot, cold, sunny or cloudy as long as it doesn't vary much.

Give me those 2 conditions & I'll kick bass

Paul Roberts reply :

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I prefer 2 days before the full/new moon, the day of the full/new moon, & 2 days after the full/new moon for a total of 5 days. Next give me the same 5 days with stable weather be it hot, cold, sunny or cloudy as long as it doesn't vary much.

If you have catch records, it would be interesting to affix your moon parameters to them, and see how significant those moons turn out to be. Being a single angler, with large catch numbers, you MIGHT have a dataset that can illuminate something. I think we'd all appreciate that. (Here I am suggesting you to do more work LOL).

If you did decide to take that on, I'd do it one year at a time. Then lump them if it's appropriate.

I'd not overlay weather yet as that would likely be a lot of work, and it's much more complicated mathematically). If you did take on weather you'd probably need to go to a weather records website, and treat weather somewhat like you might the moon phases: front (f) +/-Xdays. Since fronts aren't consistent in duration, you might simply affix a weather label (f-3) to each fishing day. This doesn't account for front intensity, but is at least something. Others may have better ideas on this.

(Modified: Actually bc fronts are so variable in duration, intensity, and frequency, this might be too difficult to define. Maybe barometeric pressure in lieu, but even this would be an angler's nightmare (and mathematicians wet dream LOL).

OK, sunny vs cloudy??

I can hear you now... :oAre you !! I've got a family, job and house to take care of!! Hey, maybe Muddy's head needs some stretching! No pain no gain!

No, I'm not doin' it. Unless, maybe you've got big catch numbers, and it's all well ordered. My family would probably move out.;D

Now we know why we played hooky to go fishing.

Catt reply :

Well Paul my records would be a little bias since I fish nights 6 to 7 months out of the year and almost 80% of the time it's during the full moon. It is more difficult to fish a new moon because it is harder to keep my boat off of stumps that are quite numerous and it is harder for the bass & angler to connect. The light from the full moon illuminates the bait against the surface for more contrast.

Paul Roberts reply :

Ah yes. That is a strong bias.

Now, what we need is an angler with high catch numbers, keeps catch records, who blindly fishes every day regardless of weather, moon phase, etc... . ;D

Anybody out there?

Well...next best might tournament records. Any know where such records might be kept somewhere?

I'ma lunatic reply :

I've done more research on this than most people. I think if you understood why the moon theories work, which not even their creators did, then you'd know which baits would work better and how deep to fish when the moon is right. I can't say much though because I have a website relating to it and don't want to seem like I'm advertising.

Nitro 882 reply :

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I don't care about any facts/ believes/superstitions about any species of fish. If I have time, my "honney-do" list is empty and the weather is acceptable (no tunderstorms or super cold), I'm going fishing.

Bless you!!!!!!

Randall reply :

I have looked at my catches in the past and not found much to support that the moon has more than a small amount of influence on my catches. Weather has a much larger influence but I still catch plenty of big fish when they shouldn't be caught both by the weather and the moon. Many things together like good stable weather along with the moon phases and an approaching front will definately make a big difference for me but I catch larger bass all the time and I never know when it might happen according to just moon phases. Part of this could be that at times I will target tougher to catch inactive trophy fish as well as the active ones when most fishermen just catch the easy to catch active fish. I also prefer to target larger bass outside of the spawning season since they are less scattered and easier to locate for me. They might not be active but I can still catch them if I know where they are. Even during the spawn the moon has little influence for me when compared to warming trends and weather.

There are a few things I have noticed the full moon has a big effect on. The moon has more of an influence on shallow fish and the time of day those fish will eat. Shallow fish will feed most often when the moon is at its highest at night and will feed better later in the day on the day following the bright night of a full moon. Still weather has a much larger influence. Deeper fish seem to be less influenced by the moon and I assume it is because moonlight has little to no penetration to the deeper waters.

No scientific data here just my personal observation and experience.

mrbassky reply :

I fish anytime I can get away. Regardless of weather, moontime, season, ect. I think planning around major tournaments and weather are bigger factors anyway.

10519

Interesting point of view! 2024

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