Flw Ban On Umbrella Rigs? 2024

Jrob78 reply :

There is an article on this site (http://www.bassresource.com/bass_fishing_123/alabama-rig-ban.html) stating the A-rig will be banned from tournaments starting next season.

I don't care what people fish with but I'm glad the pro's are being held to a higher standard. I think FLW is making the right decision.

Brian Needham reply :

finding fish and catching them aint high enough?

the Arig nonsense is just that, nonsense.

is long lining next????

if the pro circuits want to get all holier than thou, maybe they should worry about how their members handle fish, or how many fish don't survive after all the pictures are taken.............or even maybe work with manufactures to make fishing more affordable for the average Joe. FLW cant do that, of course, since Ranger basically owns the tour....... or even better, don't do stupid shat like hold your "classic" on the red river in august!!!!!! People don't show up to see 8# bags being weighed in.....

but what do I know.

drops mic...........

roadwarrior reply :

Well, on a positive note...

Get your A Rig going if you want to catch some size. Unless you are fishing the circut, who cares?

ChrisAW reply :

I have no issue with schooling rigs in general, but I'm ok with this. I'm tired of seeing half of the anglers on FLW Outdoors throwing it. Its very un-interesting to watch. I know it may work, and also won't a majority of the time. Its just another lure. But even watching people throw crankbaits is more interesting.

Jrob78 reply :

Just about every pro i've heard asked about it says they don't like the A-Rig and don't think it should be used in top level tournaments. All the FLW guys use it because they have to. In some events, if you're not fishing the A-Rig, you're not going to finish in the money. It doesn't mean they like it though. The A-Rig levels the playing field too much, according to some.

Felix77 reply :

Thoughts? I for one am a bit shocked. This league helped make it popular. I'm torn if this is a good thing.

Americanzero reply :

I am all about it. I just never saw the A-rig as being very sporting. If you use and like it, hey thats fine. Its just not for me. I really do not see it as being that big of a change, either. Much past 3-4 years ago you didnt need it to win a competition, shouldnt need it now.

robdob reply :

Hopefully FLW bans it in the everstarts and BASS bans it in the opens next. how can you say something is "just another lure" when it's clearly not.. its FIVE lures.. if you watched the last FLW tour event you would see it can also be 12 lures.. it's insane to be tossing out 5 or more lures on one rod and think "its just another tool" get real. maybe ill make some rig that can hold 5 frogs and throw it on the potomac and see if the same clowns who love the Arig think that is also "just another lure"

basseditor reply :

I don't know, call me crazy, but there are too many rules. Sometimes the A-rig is the only thing that produces. Now, in some of those events, no one will catch any fish to speak of. Everyone says the problem with pro bass events is not enough people watch them. See how few watch when 8 lbs a day wins an event. (As was mentioned above.)

People watch to see big fish. Lots of big fish. I think we bass guys are killing our favorite sport by making it unappealing to the casual fans.

(J/k — but lets go back to the Buck Perry days of trolling spoon plugs! Now there was the way to get big ones.)

Watching tournaments is boring — either live or on TV. Pro events are about to get even more boring. There goes the fan base.

Are they going to ban long lining next, because it works?

Glenn reply :

Here's the story: http://www.bassresource.com/bass_fishing_123/alabama-rig-ban.html

WRB reply :

I thought B.A.S.S. was wrong banning the A-rig back in 2012 Elites and haven't changed my mind on this lure presentation. There has been a lot of development on various A-rigs, difinately a step backwards for FLW.

Tom

Snakehead Whisperer reply :

On 8/29/2013 at 9:28 AM, Glenn said:
Here's the story: http://www.bassresource.com/bass_fishing_123/alabama-rig-ban.html

Read the link, and while unrelated this is what caught my eye.

"Trolling as a method of fishing is strictly prohibited. Trolling is defined as operating the combustion engine to extend a cast or lengthen a retrieve … ”

This simplified definition of trolling makes it seem as if it is legal to troll in the traditional sense with an electric motor.

No opinion really on the a-rig.

merc1997 reply :

i just think that if they are going to allow that many baits in the water at the same time, they should allow trolling. not much different. the a-rig has proved to be a very effective fishing tool at the right time and conditions. but, as happened at beaver lake, there were rigs with what looked like to be 20 baits. it used to be that a tournament was a fisherman using one rod with one lure, not multiple lures. as with ever type of sporting event, there always has to be some that operate in the gray area. i do like how flw's other tournaments that can use the a-rig, they defined just exactly the limits of what it could be.

Hooligan reply :

Not at all surprised. A lot of tournaments have seen a large increase in mortality when the rig is employed. In many circumstances, large fish were being foul hooked by the outside baits causing further injury and scale loss. The second aspect of it is that there are improvements that it is legal to use a full rig in one portion, and not legal in others. It eliminates grey area and opportunity for he said / he said situations, some of which have occurred in the past two seasons of FLW.

I don't see it as being a step back, I see it as confirming that they are primarily concerned with fish care and reducing tournament mortality rates.

Americanzero reply :

On 8/29/2013 at 10:09 AM, Snakehead Whisperer said:

Read the link, and while unrelated this is what caught my eye.

"Trolling as a method of fishing is strictly prohibited. Trolling is defined as operating the combustion engine to extend a cast or lengthen a retrieve … ”

This simplified definition of trolling makes it seem as if it is legal to troll in the traditional sense with an electric motor.

No opinion really on the a-rig.

Also unrelated, this would ban "long lining" a jig or crankbait.

Felix77 reply :

On 8/29/2013 at 11:10 AM, merc1997 said:
.... but, as happened at beaver lake, there were rigs with what looked like to be 20 baits.

Yeah ... like this one ...

Felix77 reply :

I am NOT one of those fans which will be lost because of this. I am a big fan of the FLW broadcast. They do more than most to describe the conditions, lure and if you watch the angler you can get a sense of their presentation. This just brings them back to pre-bama techniques. Some will die because their crutch is gone but IMO this is more in tune with "professional" fishing at the highest level.

SPEEDBEAD. reply :

Off topic, but I can't catch anything on the A-rig.

JayKumar reply :

FLW pros are sick of having to throw it or lose, glad FLW is listening to them. Plenty of fish will be caught, just some limits in some events may not be as heavy. Ranger does NOT own the FLW Tour. Used to have shared ownership, not the case anymore.

WRB reply :

If FLW's concern was fish mortality that wasn't stated, they stated the 5 wire 3 lure with hooks wasn't working or was too difficult to regulate? Believe me the tournament contestants self regulate or whistle blow.

Your standard multiple treble hook lure injures bass, so that argument doesn't apply.

Trolling; bass anglers have strolled for decades, moving the boat with the electric trolling motor with lures in the water and that is cheating during a tournament. If the lure is in the water and the boat is under any power, other than drifting, that is trolling and under tournament rules isn't allowed.

Weekend bass clubs tend to follow the big tournament rules and this ruling will indirectly affect those anglers.

Tom

Brian Needham reply :

On 8/29/2013 at 9:41 PM, JayKumar said:
FLW pros are sick of having to throw it or lose, glad FLW is listening to them. Plenty of fish will be caught, just some limits in some events may not be as heavy. Ranger does NOT own the FLW Tour. Used to have shared ownership, not the case anymore.

I understand that......but the same thing CAN be said about Ranger here. ie if you dont throw the rig you are leaving money on the table, same as if you dont drive a Ranger on FLW you are leaving $$$$ on the table because of the bonuses.

I hate throwing a jerkbait and waiting 30 seconds between jerks....sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.

My main point is Fishing has become WAY TOO commercial. Which will hurt fishing(as a "sport") more than any bait ever will.

I see both sides, I really do.

I am not being argumentaive, just saying seems like people who are against it are rabidly against it, and people who are for it are "eh, whatever, throw it or not, dont matter."

JMO

Zach Dunham reply :

I still think the injury to the fish argument does apply. Yes, standard treble hook lures can and do still inflict damage, but from what I've seen with umbrella rigs it is far worse damage when it happens and they get tangled around.

BassWhole! reply :

We fish a lot of salt water tournaments, and my take is that as long as the rules apply to everyone equally and they are spelled out in advance, the tournament can make the rules whatever they please. That being said, I think banning a particular lure because its different is silly. Now if they said no multiple lures, and banned front runners, donkey rigs and the like as well, I'd be ok with that logic.

bass Czar reply :

On 8/29/2013 at 9:23 AM, basseditor said:

I don't know, call me crazy, but there are too many rules. Sometimes the A-rig is the only thing that produces. Now, in some of those events, no one will catch any fish to speak of. Everyone says the problem with pro bass events is not enough people watch them. See how few watch when 8 lbs a day wins an event. (As was mentioned above.)

People watch to see big fish. Lots of big fish. I think we bass guys are killing our favorite sport by making it unappealing to the casual fans.

(J/k — but lets go back to the Buck Perry days of trolling spoon plugs! Now there was the way to get big ones.)

Watching tournaments is boring — either live or on TV. Pro events are about to get even more boring. There goes the fan base.

Are they going to ban long lining next, because it works?

watching long lining and a-rig fishing is boring

keith71 reply :

In my opinion it's just not sporting.Five or more separate baits to mimic a school of bait fish just doesn't have an equal "feel" about it. I like the move.

J Francho reply :

There are guys in my club that think it's too much. Their money spends as well as anyone else's. It doesn't work everywhere, and not just one rig does it all. I've had fun learning about it through using. Can't say it's been a huge difference make, but when all the guys in the money are using them, then you better figure out how, or don't waste your entry fees.

bassin is addicting reply :

i personally like the ban. i'm of the opinion. one rod...one line...one bait..

A-rig is non-sporting.

IMO

Nice_Bass reply :

I bought a few for some striper fishing applications, and honestly felt a bit silly throwing it yet I have no issue throwing 3oz swimbaits. Go figure.

Anyhow, I think it was the correct move for tournament fishing at the highest level.

Maybe it is because I never caught a thing on one.

Brian Needham reply :

come on guy, yall know this thing flat out catches 'em!!!!!

rangerboy reply :

in California I saw the first three events I fished this year won on a-rigs. we can only have three hooks. makes you wonder if the people are actually using three hooks. I approve the move and would like to see it carry on to the club level as well. doubt its any more damaging to a fish the a crank bait or super spook. but I can see it by a fairness stand point. good fishing br.

Snakehead Whisperer reply :

On 8/30/2013 at 5:49 AM, Brian Needham said:

Whoa man! Nice gar. I caught a large, very spirited channel cat today on a popper. The strike was like nothing I've ever seen before.

bonzai22 reply :

I think it is a good move because with it looking like a whole school of shad it seems like you are fooling the fish to much.

buzzed bait reply :

I think it boils down to your personal preference..... some like to deer hunt with a muzzleloader or a bow, others like the most up to date .300 mag you can find. But for tournament fishing i think it takes the sporting down a notch. Sure it may win, may catch fish but it somehow seems like it takes away from the sport.... much like PEDs and baseball, it may make you bigger, faster stronger but it's just not appealing to me..... i think it is a big time marketing appeal and for that reason will be hard to remove from the FLW especially since they have the Walmart affiliation and Walmart sells the H**L out of those rigs.....

BassWhole! reply :

On 8/30/2013 at 4:32 AM, J Francho said:
There are guys in my club that think it's too much. Their money spends as well as anyone else's. It doesn't work everywhere, and not just one rig does it all. I've had fun learning about it through using. Can't say it's been a huge difference make, but when all the guys in the money are using them, then you better figure out how, or don't waste your entry fees.

We may have been separated at birth, I say "As long as their money is green". When we fish for $, we fish for $, and we are going to push the rules right to the edge (hope they aren't made of flouro).

Snakehead Whisperer reply :

On 8/30/2013 at 10:21 PM, buzzed bait said:
I think it boils down to your personal preference..... some like to deer hunt with a muzzleloader or a bow, others like the most up to date .300 mag you can find. But for tournament fishing i think it takes the sporting down a notch. Sure it may win, may catch fish but it somehow seems like it takes away from the sport.... much like PEDs and baseball, it may make you bigger, faster stronger but it's just not appealing to me..... i think it is a big time marketing appeal and for that reason will be hard to remove from the FLW especially since they have the Walmart affiliation and Walmart sells the H**L out of those rigs.....

You make a good point. But there is a major difference in the market around bass fishing compared to that of baseball. While manufacturers of baseball equipment do rely on the marketing/exposure of pros using their gear, the overwhelming amount of revenue generated from baseball (and most other pro sports) comes from memorabilia, tv/advertising and concessions. In bass fishing a good deal of the revenue comes from tackle/boat sales, and pros endorsing the tackle that they use.

My point is that sports like baseball can afford to ban things like aluminum bats, pine tar, and steroids. They make up for it with sales of t-shirts, advertising, beer, etc. Bass fishing relies heavily upon the marketing of the latest and greatest tackle to make money, and without the product endorsements most pros couldn't afford the entry fees and equipment to be competitive.

Another point that I've seen brought up in other threads is that most who follow pro bass fishing tournaments want to see these guys catch the biggest bag of fish possible (and in turn buy the lures that they caught the fish on.) If tournament bass fishing was regulated to be a strictly "sporting" event, then it would be much slower to watch and much less exciting for the average fan. From this perspective, bass anglers should be allowed to throw anything that will improve their odds of meeting that goal.

With all that said, I gave up on competitive fishing a long time ago. There's really no point to it for me. It ruins the whole experience for me personally. I know many anglers who IMHO could outfish top money pros consistently, but they have too much love for the lifestyle to give that up. I know many of you will want to call BS on this, but I believe this so it doesn't matter to me.

I'm with Brian Needham on this; I just don't think the commercialization of competitive fishing does much for the sport at all. A lot of the mentality that I see with tournament anglers is that bass rule, everything else is a trash fish wasting my time... off with it's head! So sad. With that said, I do respect many pro anglers and what they do for a living. I'm a member of BASS (not FLW, I know,) I just don't particularly care for pro fishing or what "the pros are throwing."

As for the a-rig, they're great when you're trolling for stripers to keep. I don't think I'm qualified to speak for their legality in tournaments though. I personally think they're rediculous, but so am I in many ways.

Brian Needham reply :

if we are bringing Baseball into the equation........... don't forget EVERYBODY was watching baseball when the steroid jerks were bashing home runs which equals huge revenue.

Snakehead Whisperer reply :

On 8/31/2013 at 7:43 AM, Brian Needham said:
if we are bringing Baseball into the equation........... don't forget EVERYBODY was watching baseball when the steroid jerks were bashing home runs which equals huge revenue.

I wasn't

I was really into baseball until the lockout of 1990. I'm one of the fans that was lost, and never came back. Still a huge Nolan Ryan fan though.

Brian Needham reply :

I never been a big baseball guy

all sports including fishing need to "cast a big net", meaning do marketing/whatever it takes to bring in new fans/customers.

fans/customers= revenue

revenue= baits,rods,reels,boats being sold

stuff being sold= profits

profits = new baits/technology being produced

new stuff produced= the new fans buying MORE stuff

sports in general are hobbies and hobbies are done with extra money (not normal money), so unless people are excited about something they aint gonna spend their extra money on it. I am for whatever promotes the sport, and grows the sport.

JMO

Snakehead Whisperer reply :

On 8/31/2013 at 8:57 AM, Brian Needham said:

I never been a big baseball guy

all sports including fishing need to "cast a big net", meaning do marketing/whatever it takes to bring in new fans/customers.

fans/customers= revenue

revenue= baits,rods,reels,boats being sold

stuff being sold= profits

profits = new baits/technology being produced

new stuff produced= the new fans buying MORE stuff

sports in general are hobbies and hobbies are done with extra money (not normal money), so unless people are excited about something they aint gonna spend their extra money on it. I am for whatever promotes the sport, and grows the sport.

JMO

Unfortunately that profit does not lead to all that much innovation in the tackle/baits field. The a-rig is a good example of that. Tried and true old school bait that was marketed as the next big thing. It seems to me that the most innovative baits to hit the water are usually developed by some guy in a garage working on a shoestring budget. Big money does usually buy him out, however. There are notable exceptions to this, of course.

I'm with you on the promotion of the sport. I just wish that more emphasis was put on conservation of the watershed too. There was a good balance between the 2 in recent times, but conservation of fisheries seems to be on the backburner again.

Brian Needham reply :

On 8/31/2013 at 9:04 AM, Snakehead Whisperer said:
Unfortunately that profit does not lead to all that much innovation in the tackle/baits field. It seems to me that the most innovative baits to hit the water are usually developed by some guy in a garage working on a shoestring budget. Big money does usually buy him out, however.

and that's somewhat true........ but the guy in his garage didn't make Ci4 for shimano, or the Ipilot of Minnkota, sidescan for hummingbird ect ect. In the last 10 years R&D has brought huge tech advances to the market.

but aint no big bait maker beating Bucca's Bull Shad.!

I defiantly see your side, I hope you see mine.

Snakehead Whisperer reply :

On 8/31/2013 at 9:09 AM, Brian Needham said:

and that's somewhat true........ but the guy in his garage didn't make Ci4 for shimano, or the Ipilot of Minnkota, sidescan for hummingbird ect ect. In the last 10 years R&D has brought huge tech advances to the market.

but aint no big bait maker beating Bucca's Bull Shad.!

I defiantly see your side, I hope you see mine.

Agreed, to an extent. But I beg to differ on the technology side of things.

For many years the open source software movement has innovated on mundane software, then given away the source code for free. MacOS is a prime example. Built on tried and true POSIX technology. I'd be very surprised if Minnkota and Humminbird developers didn't utilize some of this readily available, free to use source code in the development of their technologies. Shimano on the other hand, kind of hard to argue that one.

00 mod reply :

"Flat out catches em" ??? I thought the 9" bull shad flat out caught the gar!!!!!

Jeff

Brian Needham reply :

cant get 'em to the boat with the bull shad!!!!!!!, LMAO

J Francho reply :

Quote

It seems to me that the most innovative baits to hit the water are usually developed by some guy in a garage working on a shoestring budget.

Just a quick counterpoint...

Sometimes that's true, but look at baits like the Lucky Craft Pointer. A ton of tech went into it's development, and it's still considered a revolutionary, hot bait after more than a decade. To me, that bait and subsequent hard baits got a lot more technical in their construction. Many copies are made, but the Pointer was an evolution of a tried and true bait that would not have been possible without the technology that a large manufacturer can afford.

Felix77 reply :

IMO it went over the top when competitors started stacking the A-Rigs. That's just a bit too much for me. I'm ok with the ban at the Elite level. Hard to watch a show when all they are doing is throwing an A-Rig.

Brian Needham reply :

On 9/3/2013 at 10:12 PM, Felix77 said:

IMO it went over the top when competitors started stacking the A-Rigs.

TRUE!

that being said.........I will be slinging a picasso bait ball extreme is fall! 13 baits (but only 5 hooks),

Hell, who am I kidding, I'll probably get the 7 wire version, lol

Jake Coucoules reply :

I dont understand how people say there are times where nothing else will work. The BASS tour has always had it banned and their anglers always seem to do just fine...

Snakehead Whisperer reply :

On 9/3/2013 at 9:50 PM, J Francho said:

Just a quick counterpoint...

Sometimes that's true, but look at baits like the Lucky Craft Pointer. A ton of tech went into it's development, and it's still considered a revolutionary, hot bait after more than a decade. To me, that bait and subsequent hard baits got a lot more technical in their construction. Many copies are made, but the Pointer was an evolution of a tried and true bait that would not have been possible without the technology that a large manufacturer can afford.

The pointer is one of the notable exceptions that I was referring to. There are several larger tackle manufacturers that are doing R&D to create innovative baits, I was simply stating that most commercially available tackle is more or less the same old stuff.

coryn h. fishowl reply :

I have never used one, but if it levels the playing field that much I kinda want to get my hands on one. It does look like a nightmare to cast though.

J Francho reply :

I'll be using a small, five bait rig in a club tournament this weekend. I doubt anyone else in the club will.

SPEEDBEAD. reply :

On 8/29/2013 at 9:39 PM, SPEEDBEAD. said:
Off topic, but I can't catch anything on the A-rig.

Still can't. LOL

PABASS reply :

One to many lures are banned by some states it makes sense FLW and really all cross country Tournaments ban this, why deal with state laws when you don't have to? I personally feel that there are others ways to catch them and glad they got rid of it.

stkbassn reply :

Maybe where I fish here in Va is different but I haven't found the A-Rig to be particularly productive or to be magic fish cathing machine...Not sure why they couldn't use it. A lure is a lure is a lure....in my opinion. I think pros can catch fish on anything. It's not the lure that's so important as is the ability to consistently find fish....that amazes me more than what they catch em' on. I don't think it's unfair at all.

basshole8190 reply :

BASS & FLW can ban it but ill still use it as long as the DNR allow it its just another tool in my arsenal annd pretty effective on schooling or suspended fish

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