What is fishing rod sensitivity? 2024

WRB reply :

Reading several threads regarding sensitivity in bass fishing rods prompted me to ask this question, what is bass fishing rod sensitivity?

Nearly everyone wants a sensitive fishing rod that can detect the slightest strike or the difference detween structure texture like sand, clay, soft mud, clam shells, etc. So tell me how do you think a fishing rod helps you determine changes in bottom structure or detect the slightest strikes?

Tom

r83srock reply :

You and I both know sensitivity is subjective, for example, I just purchased a St. Croix legend elite 7’ 1” mh xf. I have a similar rod in the Mojo line, I always use it for finesse jigs. I rigged both rods with the same reel, line and jig, fished the same rock pile but alternated rods, I started with the legend elite (that bad boy is balanced btw!). I cannot tell a single difference in sensitivity, I actually feel like my mojo is more so, but on paper it shouldn’t be, I’m just super confident and comfortable with that rod. Other than the obvious like a change in bottom I’m not really sure. Every bite is totally different, and you need that feel at times to distinguish a bite, or a weed, or bottom. I think I feel more confident knowing what my bait is touching, that’s probably a large part of it for me. I think line is a bigger deal than even the rod. When I got serious into bass fishing I was using bps XPS specials, fine for most techniques, but bottom contact wasn’t one of them, for me. Dad helped me pick out my first st. Croix premier, and I vividly remember the increase in feel, it made learning how to fish a jig so much easier. I’ve been hooked on them ever since. People like to buy things, and try things, but an old carpenter with his trusty balanced estwing hammer will not be replaced by the latest and greatest anti vibration carbon fiber space hammer, even if it’s “better”. At this point sensitivity is just part of the deal for me, I’m locked on a particular feel, and I stick with it.

islandbass reply :

That is actually an excellent question to pose. And as r83 noted, I agree it is very subjective.

In addition, with regard to sensitivity, it might even be categorized. Sensitivity with regard to:

1) Bottom Contact - I believe that it is through experience that we gain the knowledge of being able to paint a picture in our minds of what our lure is telling us through contact with the bottom. For example, a jig head dragged over rocks feels different that it would through a muddy/clay bottom, or through grass. Soon we develop the skills to give us a decent image.

2) The Strike or Taking of the lure - Sometimes it's nibbling which might mean a wary bass or a blue gill or a bass no bigger than my thumb acting like a hawg trying to grab my senko. Sometimes it's so positive and violent you know you have a fish on. Sometimes it's subtle. Something gets mushy or goes "dead". I call this basically, a change in the "system".

3) Line choice - Some lines transmit feedback to us better than others. With that said, however, I have learned that there has to be a certain amount of tension in order to receive the transmitted information. I don't care how sensitive your rod or line is, if there is too much slack, you are NOT going to feel a bite. I've tested this myself.

With those two listed above, I think there are other factors that others will chime in on.

Then we have our hands. The sensors in our hands are better than the most sensitive rods out there, thanks to the Man upstairs. If you've ever fished with a hand line (a blast in its own right), you know what I am talking. However, the drawbacks are there - limited line control, no extra leverage that a rod provides, etc. so I am not giving up my rods any time soon. With regard to rods, I think our hands play a role too in our perception of sensitivity a rod has. Even an ugly stik feels sensitive in my hands, lol. I'm not kidding. I do have one rod in my arsenal, which was the worst rod I have. I cannot feel much with this rod, even with braid. Even more disappointing that it was a rod from Rapala. When an ugly stik beats a rod in the sensitivity department, I have a problem. I still use it for certain applications like float fishing and squid fishing. Both of these do not require sensitivity. It also serves as a guest rod if I don't like somebody, lol. Just kidding about that.

WRB reply :

The first time I heard the word sensitivity applied to a fishing rod was in the early 70's when Dick Guamer a rep working for Fenwick at the '73 Fred Hall show was demonstrating their new graphite bass rods, I was hooked and bought a rod.

Before this time bass rod were light weight tubular glass rods like Eagle Claw featherweight rods. Graphite definitely allowed the angler to feel the lure and bottom better then glass. The problem with early graphite rods is they broke un expectantly and I broke my first Fenwick rod.

At the same Fred Hall show in 1977 I met Sam Posey who was promoting a new rod company Lamiglas with their graphite rods. I told Sam about my experience with Fenwick and he gave me a rod to try out. I fished Lamiglas rods for over 35 years, Gary Loomis was the rod designer before starting his own company. I say this to give some background into rod sensitivity. Higher modulus graphite does allow the line to transmit vibrations to your hand/fingers better than lower modulus fiberglass. The rod blank weight, taper, wall thickness, flexibility and giude train all combine to state of the art bass rods.

It's the line that transmits movement to the rod, the rod to your fingers or hand and all this is interpreted by your brain. Sensitivity is ultimately something only you can determine.

What surprises me is how much mis information is promoted and how much money anglers will spend to improve their rod sensitivity.

Tom

r83srock reply :

On 10/13/2017 at 7:47 AM, WRB said:

The first time I heard the word sensitivity applied to a fishing rod was in the early 70's when Dick Guamer a rep working for Fenwick at the '73 Fred Hall show was demonstrating their new graphite bass rods, I was hooked and bought a rod.

Before this time bass rod were light weight tubular glass rods like Eagle Claw featherweight rods. Graphite definitely allowed the angler to feel the lure and bottom better then glass. The problem with early graphite rods is they broke un expectantly and I broke my first Fenwick rod.

At the same Fred Hall show in 1977 I met Sam Posey who was promoting a new rod company Lamiglas with their graphite rods. I told Sam about my experience with Fenwick and he gave me a rod to try out. I fished Lamiglas rods for over 35 years, Gary Loomis was the rod designer before starting his own company. I say this to give some background into rod sensitivity. Higher modulus graphite does allow the line to transmit vibrations to your hand/fingers better than lower modulus fiberglass. The rod blank weight, taper, wall thickness, flexibility and giude train all combine to state of the art bass rods.

It's the line that transmits movement to the rod, the rod to your fingers or hand and all this is interpreted by your brain. Sensitivity is ultimately something only you can determine.

What surprises me is how much mis information is promoted and how much money anglers will spend to improve their rod sensitivity.

Tom

Man, I love the brief and accurate history you just shared. I was reading an article awhile back that talked about someone who was working for Hexcel (Hercules?) and was developing carbon material for aircraft, and he was getting requests from Fenwick for the material, which was the early IM6. I believe Lynco grinding made the mandrels, I could be wrong. Everyone has some excellent points btw! It would be cool to see a sticky on rod, or rod and reel history, and on sensitivity as well.

Master Bait'r reply :

I imagine it as torsional rigidity, stiffness and rebound transposed across lightness and in respect to a properly situated fulcrum to a taper. With the right attributes (matched to the individual of course, everyone feels things differently) you will be feeling every fish fart and sneeze.

WRB reply :

On 10/13/2017 at 9:35 AM, Master Bait'r said:

I imagine it as torsional rigidity, stiffness and rebound transposed across lightness and in respect to a properly situated fulcrum to a taper. With the right attributes (matched to the individual of course, everyone feels things differently) you will be feeling every fish fart and sneeze.

All the rod technology is meaningless without the line being tied to a lure, it's line movement that we feel and our experience interpreting what happening.

I managed to catch over 100 DD size bass before using graphite rods! How was that possible using vintage tackle like fiberglass rods and monofilament line?

Tom

MassYak85 reply :

I forget who said it last time this subject came up but if you give an NRX to someone who has never fished before they aren't going to be able to distinguish a thing. The vibrations traveling up the line may be better transmitted down the blank to their hand but I'd argue "sensitivity" is 90% the angler's experience being able to translate the information they are given.

WRB reply :

Catt made the reference if you give a state if the art rod to someone who doesn't have any experience the sensitivity feedback is lost because of lack of experience to interpret what's being processed by the uneducated brain.

So now we enter the realm of experience verses inexperience, should a inexperienced angler buy high end rods?

Tom

Catt reply :

Sensitivity in my opinion starts with the hands & extends up to the brain!

Some people's hands simply cannot feel what others can & no amount of experience will change that. For these people buying high-end rods is waste of money.

As for the brain interprets that can enhanced through experience.

I've been chastise by many because I advocate teaching kids or inexperienced angler how to fish Texas Rigs or Jig-n-Craw first. My reasoning is once you can interpret when a Texas Rig or Jig is being bitten every other technique is simple!

The quickest way to increase you sense of feel is through night fishing. Not just once or twice a year but do it from post spawn to pre-spawn. I can cast a 1/4 oz bullet weight into 20' of water & tell you when it hits bottom!

A-Jay reply :

Good Thread Tom ~

I’ll offer that ‘bass fishing rod sensitivity’ is something that probably can be looked at from at least a couple of different perpectives. Both have been already been mentioned. Sensitivity as it relates to the design, materials used & balance of the a rod and then the angler’s abitlity & experience in deciphering what his or her bait is doing at any given moment.

Bassheads who have not had the oppurtunity to fish with a glass rod, (and not a cranking not), may not fully understand how the avent of graphite rods revolutionized bass fishing. The improvement in ‘sensitivity’ of graphite over the old fiberglass stick was night & day. For those more recently getting into the game, it was easily as dramatic an improvement as braided line has made. The first thing one would notice when handling & comparing the two blanks, was the striking difference in weight. Even the very first versions of the graphite rods were markedly LIGHTER than the fiberglss blanks. This for me, this really improved the blanks sensitivity, as the lighter rod in my hand offered the ability to feel even lighter sensations through the line to the rod, than ever before. The trend in ‘lighter more sensitive’ rods still continues today. So I’m quite willing to say that the overall blank weight (or lack there of) simply must be included as part of the conversation when discussing bass rod sensitivity.

Then there’s the ‘ability & experience’ factor in all of this. I believe this can’t be over stated or omitted here. Just like there are those who have better vision or hearing than others, there are some humans who have a heighten sense of ‘feel’. But the vast majoity of us, myself included, we may not be in the top teir of that group, but fall somewhere along the line below that highest level of God given ability.

Rod manufactuers would like us to believe that purchasing their particular ‘highly sensitive rod’ will overcome this fact of life and make us all ‘hyper-sensetive’ strike detecting Ninja’s the first time out with their newest stick. I’ll submit that this is not exactly the way it actually works, at least for me. While higher end rods can often be quite light when compared to sticks offered at a lower price point, it ends right there. The sensitivity aspect of a blank is extremely subjective to the user and can not be measured or predicted; it simply must be experienced.

So like so many things in life, when you combine some abiltiy and experience with a quality tool, the end users capacity for success is often improved. And so it is the same here. Experience in determining what my bait is doing at any given moment is what I call sensitivity. And while the equipment clearly plays a role, at this point in my fishing, I’m fairly confident that most any quality gear can get the job done. The caveat is that like any efficient ‘system’, it helps to be ‘balanced’ to perform at it’s best. This includes but is not limited to the reel, type & size of line used and the lure / presentation.

So when it's all said & done, when it come to time to purchase a graphite rod, I prefer a quality stick, made my a reputable manufacture, that feels light, balanced & comfortable in my hand, is designed to present the baits I'm looking to throw effectively and in the conditions I plan on fishing it in. The rest will take care of itself.

That’s my story and I’m sticking to it.

A-Jay

Fishin Dad reply :

This is a great read. Very informative. Nice history as well.

fishindad reply :

As mentioned, rod sensitivity is subjective since it's judged or measured by how much each angler can feel in their hand(s) gripping the rod. It can be quantitatively measured by extrapolating the rod's material characteristics using state-of-the-art equipment. But in the grand scheme of things, it doesn't mean as much as we want to believe in terms of more bass or bigger bass landed. If it did, every Elite pro would be fishing with the "most sensitive" (i.e. NRX) rod they could get their hands on, if it meant more and bigger bass = placing in the money more often. Cashing a check in an Elite event has got to be worth more than dollars earned from a rod sponsorship.

I started fishing with Fenwick Lunkerstiks (glass) rods geared towards bass fishing out in Washington state. In the late 70's (I think) Loomis had IM6 rods and then GL2, GL3, IMX rods and eventually GLX rods. Gary Loomis was the one who led the way with using higher modulus graphite rods, mostly geared towards fly and steelhead rods/anglers. Bass-specific rods came about in the last 20 years with Falcon being one of the first to offer them. I have no doubt modern bass anglers would probably catch as many bass using MBR and SJR rods as with technique specific rods (DS, crankbait, C-rig, flip, jig and worm, swimbait, etc, etc).

Back to rod sensitivity. Do I feel more or less with my Legend Extreme vs my Falcon Cara or IMX? Hard for me to even say since every bite/cast/situation is different. Do I think one rod will get me more or bigger bass? Of course not or else I'd use all the same rod line. Which makes no sense since I believe no one rod company makes the "perfect" rod for every situation or presentation. In the end, it's great to have so many rod choices and to try new tackle/rods to find that "perfect" rod that fits our style of fishing.

Darren. reply :

Excellent stuff here. Thanks for the discussion, Tom!

I remember glass rods, though I wasn't a dedicated fisherman then.

Sensitivity for me was the bobber going under water in those days!

FF to today and I've spent a lot of my $$ on fishin' sticks! I've said

it in other threads, and agree completely, that sensitivity is in the

hands of the holder. Like @Catt says, it's between the hands and

brain.

Experience is the great teacher. Just last week I fished a Mann's Jelly

Worm (8") TX style, and caught a 2 pound bass in a grassy flat about

40 yards away from my kayak. Was using my Chronarch 50e and a MH

Carbonlite, 6'6". I set the hook on instinct almost immediately when
I felt something different as I was slow dragging it through the grass. It

wasn't like someone rang the doorbell, or pounded on the door saying

"FISH IS ON, DUDE!" like a bobber would indicate or your rod being

ripped out of your hands.

It was different, subtle, but there. I'm convinced it was experience and

ability (based on learning from experiences) that taught me to look/feel

for a difference between grass and a strike.

I don't give all the credit to my $100 Carbonlite, though it did play a role.

I'm pretty sure I would have felt that subtle strike on my $50 rod as well

simply because I've had similar experiences on it.

All this said, I have a long way to go to get to where many of you guys are

in terms of knowledge and experience. This is where I'm at today. I fully

expect to be in a different place a year from now thanks to more experiences

piling up.

I fully expect my understanding of sensitivity to continue to evolve.

Fishin Dad reply :

How can you not love this topic. The moral of the story is, "Get out and fish more to be a better fisherman and catch more fish!"

Team9nine reply :

I'll take the road less traveled and say that there is nothing subjective about "fishing rod sensitivity" except for everyone's opinion on the matter in reference to defining "what it is" or entails, none of which changes the specific physical characteristics of any rod ever made.

islandbass reply :

On 10/14/2017 at 12:12 AM, Darren. said:

Experience is the great teacher. Just last week I fished a Mann's Jelly

Worm (8") TX style, and caught a 2 pound bass in a grassy flat about

40 yards away from my kayak. Was using my Chronarch 50e and a MH

Carbonlite, 6'6". I set the hook on instinct almost immediately when
I felt something different as I was slow dragging it through the grass. It

wasn't like someone rang the doorbell, or pounded on the door saying

"FISH IS ON, DUDE!" like a bobber would indicate or your rod being

ripped out of your hands.

It was different, subtle, but there. I'm convinced it was experience and

ability (based on learning from experiences) that taught me to look/feel

for a difference between grass and a strike.

Right on , and so true. This is what I was referring to but couldn't put it as eloquently as this when I wrote about having a "change" to the system/equation (my fishing equation, lol) of using the rod, line and bait. We are aware or at least be conscious of the input we impart to that "system/equation" and input into that doesn't come from us. If anything changes this "system" that didn't come from us, then two possibilities exist:

1) It's a snag, we got it stuck on something

2) The fish has it - SET THE HOOK!

With enough fishing experience we will get to where have a better ability to discern that. Sometimes we might be wrong but hook sets are free.

In addition to bass fishing, I also gained experience with this by drift fishing with corkies for salmon. Imagined a carolina rig floating lure that bounces periodically along the bottom. You'd feel a tick as the weight touches the bottom periodically, say every 2-3 seconds as the weight is carried by the river's current. It's like this:

Tick (weight touching the river bed, then is moved along by the current), Tick (every few seconds), Tick... Tick... Tick... Tick... Tick... Nothing... Dude, wake up! The fish took it! Reel up the slack and set the hook, lol!

The change was the take. You can even develop enough wherewithal to sense a "snag" when the weight might get stuck in the rocks so you "pop" the rod to free it before the force of the current lodges your weight further.

fishindad reply :

On 10/14/2017 at 12:40 AM, Team9nine said:

I'll take the road less traveled and say that there is nothing subjective about "fishing rod sensitivity" except for everyone's opinion on the matter in reference to defining "what it is" or entails, none of which changes the specific physical characteristics of any rod ever made.

T9, I am sure you are one of the more experienced anglers on this site though. What I'd like to see for myself is: build 3 identical rods (just as an example) using the exact same handle and guides, etc. on three identical 7 foot, fast action blanks in the same price range - Loomis NRX, Kistler Z-Bone, Phenix K2 (again, just as an example) - using the exact same FC line and blindfold anglers while they work a jig back to the boat. I might believe an experienced, seasoned angler might be able to feel a difference but I am betting the average 'weekend warrior' angler wouldn't be able to tell the difference?? In that sense I'd agree with you, it's not subjective. But slap the sticker of a rod maker (Loomis) on the rod and then that introduces bias = subjectivity. I know first hand that's why researchers are supposed to be blinded when analyzing data since there is definite bias introduced when the experimental and control groups are not masked.

I guess what I'm saying again is IMO, rod sensitivity and feel don't much factor in to a bass Elite pro's thinking such that they know it's way down the list in terms of contributing to their ultimate success (or failure). We non-pros (myself included) pay way too much attention to wanting the lightest, blingiest, most sensitive rod out there. It definitely increases the fun and excitement factor to feel every twig and weed stalk and magnifies the bite such that we can feel it with gloves on. But we should focus on a rod's other, more important characteristics.

Team9nine reply :

On 10/14/2017 at 4:09 AM, fishindad said:

T9, I am sure you are one of the more experienced anglers on this site though. What I'd like to see for myself is: build 3 identical rods (just as an example) using the exact same handle and guides, etc. on three identical 7 foot, fast action blanks in the same price range - Loomis NRX, Kistler Z-Bone, Phenix K2 (again, just as an example) - using the exact same FC line and blindfold anglers while they work a jig back to the boat. I might believe an experienced, seasoned angler might be able to feel a difference but I am betting the average 'weekend warrior' angler wouldn't be able to tell the difference?? In that sense I'd agree with you, it's not subjective. But slap the sticker of a rod maker (Loomis) on the rod and then that introduces bias = subjectivity. I know first hand that's why researchers are supposed to be blinded when analyzing data since there is definite bias introduced when the experimental and control groups are not masked.

I guess what I'm saying again is IMO, rod sensitivity and feel don't much factor in to a bass Elite pro's thinking such that they know it's way down the list in terms of contributing to their ultimate success (or failure). We non-pros (myself included) pay way too much attention to wanting the lightest, blingiest, most sensitive rod out there. It definitely increases the fun and excitement factor to feel every twig and weed stalk and magnifies the bite such that we can feel it with gloves on. But we should focus on a rod's other, more important characteristics.

Take your experiment exactly as written above and you're stuck in everyone's own interpretation (opinion) of which is more sensitive. But change your experiment ending, instead putting those rods in the hand of a lab who could analyze which one transferred vibration/impulses faster, at higher amplitudes, and had higher resonant frequencies combined with specific action angles, accounting for any dampening effect and you'd have my definition of which rod was most sensitive. There would be nothing arbitrary about it. I'll tell you which one is more sensitive. Whether any of us can tell that difference or not by feel is a completely different question to ask, to me

fishindad reply :

On 10/14/2017 at 4:38 AM, Team9nine said:

Take your experiment exactly as written above and you're stuck in everyone's own interpretation (opinion) of which is more sensitive. But change your experiment ending, instead putting those rods in the hand of a lab who could analyze which one transferred vibration/impulses faster, at higher amplitudes, and had higher resonant frequencies combined with specific action angles, accounting for any dampening effect and you'd have my definition of which rod was most sensitive. There would be nothing arbitrary about it. I'll tell you which one is more sensitive. Whether any of us can tell that difference or not by feel is a completely different question to ask, to me

I respect your knowledge and passion as well as the input you share on this site. And being a scientific researcher I completely agree with you that in a lab, there's no doubt one can quantitatively measure transmission of impulses, etc. But...I am sure you will agree that these differences in rod blanks could be statistically NS in that using a n value of say, 10 blanks per company, might translate into a (as an example) 0.0001% difference between blanks. There may even be blanks within each company that test at the top and bottom of this bell curve. Still a measureable, absolute difference of course. But, if you built a rod with each of the 30 tested blanks and put each into the hands of 10 anglers (even pros), I'm sure you'll agree that even you or I might not feel the most sensitive (by lab testing) rod feels the most sensitive in our hands.

I guess, in the end, I am in total agreement with you that sensitivity can be measured and is not subjective - in the lab. Great topic on one of the most-asked questions on fishing sites - which rod is the most sensitive?

Team9nine reply :

On 10/14/2017 at 6:31 AM, fishindad said:

I respect your knowledge and passion as well as the input you share on this site. And being a scientific researcher I completely agree with you that in a lab, there's no doubt one can quantitatively measure transmission of impulses, etc. But...I am sure you will agree that these differences in rod blanks could be statistically NS in that using a n value of say, 10 blanks per company, might translate into a (as an example) 0.0001% difference between blanks. There may even be blanks within each company that test at the top and bottom of this bell curve. Still a measureable, absolute difference of course. But, if you built a rod with each of the 30 tested blanks and put each into the hands of 10 anglers (even pros), I'm sure you'll agree that even you or I might not feel the most sensitive (by lab testing) rod feels the most sensitive in our hands.

I guess, in the end, I am in total agreement with you that sensitivity can be measured and is not subjective - in the lab. Great topic on one of the most-asked questions on fishing sites - which rod is the most sensitive?

Agree completely. There might be classes of rods with little or no statistically significant difference, but you could group them as more or less sensitive than another class of rods. There should be glaring differences among rods of different material compositions, and likely discernible differences among grades or classes of the same material (e.g., graphite - IM or tonnage).

WRB reply :

There have been some measurable milestones in fishing rod debpvelopment and we all benefit from it. Our bass rods are lighter, stronger with controlled flex and the handles, reel seat and guides have developed to keep pace with rod blanks. We tend to think these rods are mass produced by automated equipment when they are close to being hand made products using state of the components. The final product may look identicle to each rod in a production lot, but they not identicle.

My personal skill set is fishing jigs because since 1971 I have fished the same 7/16 oz jig for thousands of hours and know nearly every rock in the lakes I fish often.

I feel and watch the line almost subconscious reacting to changes automatically. I love my state of the art rods and reels, they are very light weight and well balanced today. I do not catch more or bigger bass today then 30 years ago, the fact is I catch fewer big bass because the population is down compared to 80' and 90's. I am also 30 years older and that is a testimate to today's modern rods and reels that I can still bass fish successfully do to reduced fatigue using lighter weight rods and reels with improved sensitivity.

Tom

Can't Catch Bass reply :

On 10/13/2017 at 5:29 AM, WRB said:

what is bass fishing rod sensitivity?

I'm a big fan of feedback as to what's going on in the depths, but I've also thought this is a bit of a double edged sword.

Yes, it's nice to feel that small jolt as the fish sucks the bait into their mouth, but just as their movements are being easily transmitted to you, realize this can work vice versa and we all know how well fish can sense vibration.

fishindad reply :

On 10/14/2017 at 7:26 AM, WRB said:

There have been some measurable milestones in fishing rod debpvelopment and we all benefit from it. Our bass rods are lighter, stronger with controlled flex and the handles, reel seat and guides have developed to keep pace with rod blanks. We tend to think these rods are mass produced by automated equipment when they are close to being hand made products using state of the components. The final product may look identicle to each rod in a production lot, but they not identicle.

My personal skill set is fishing jigs because since 1971 I have fished the same 7/16 oz jig for thousands of hours and know nearly every rock in the lakes I fish often.

I feel and watch the line almost subconscious reacting to changes automatically. I love my state of the art rods and reels, they are very light weight and well balanced today. I do not catch more or bigger bass today then 30 years ago, the fact is I catch fewer big bass because the population is down compared to 80' and 90's. I am also 30 years older and that is a testimate to today's modern rods and reels that I can still bass fish successfully do to reduced fatigue using lighter weight rods and reels with improved sensitivity.

Tom

Tom, thanks for starting this topic. What some forget as you mention is that the high end rods, at least those rolled within the US, are rolled by hand. Sure the mandrels may be close to identical and the graphite may be cut (by hand) almost identical but at that level even a minute variation is magnified from finished blank to finished blank. As you mention add in the handles and guides, again secured by hand, and the finished product is surely going to have some slight variation, however slight. I am sure those of us who have purchased a duplicate or triplicate of our "favorite" rods find that even they have a slight difference in feel!

That's what blows me away about the Elite pros, how they can switch rod sponsors and get dialed in so quickly to the feel of a new set of rods - whether they be better quality or worse (see AMart, lol).

And to your comment about losing your sense of touch in old age (I'm 59 so my apologies if you're younger than I am) I find that my sense of feel hasn't (yet) dulled but the amount of hours I can stay on the water has decreased and the amount of muscle aches and pains the next morning has increased. If I try fishing >6 hours, especially in the middle of Summer, I cannot focus because I'm so tired/fatigued. I know his 'job' is fishing but I really respect Larry Nixon for still competing with the "young guns" at his age.

Back on topic, I wonder what fishing an NRX rod feels like to lady anglers, given their innate, heightened sensitivity, compared to us cretins.

Delaware Valley Tackle reply :

There is a component of the CCS rod measuring system that measured blank speed , as in recovery speed, not action. This is commonly referred to as the "crispness" of the rod and affects sensitivity. To what level it's detectable by an individual obviously can't be known. The proof is always and will always be in on-the -water use.

WRB reply :

On 10/14/2017 at 9:52 AM, fishindad said:

Tom, thanks for starting this topic. What some forget as you mention is that the high end rods, at least those rolled within the US, are rolled by hand. Sure the mandrels may be close to identical and the graphite may be cut (by hand) almost identical but at that level even a minute variation is magnified from finished blank to finished blank. As you mention add in the handles and guides, again secured by hand, and the finished product is surely going to have some slight variation, however slight. I am sure those of us who have purchased a duplicate or triplicate of our "favorite" rods find that even they have a slight difference in feel!

That's what blows me away about the Elite pros, how they can switch rod sponsors and get dialed in so quickly to the feel of a new set of rods - whether they be better quality or worse (see AMart, lol).

And to your comment about losing your sense of touch in old age (I'm 59 so my apologies if you're younger than I am) I find that my sense of feel hasn't (yet) dulled but the amount of hours I can stay on the water has decreased and the amount of muscle aches and pains the next morning has increased. If I try fishing >6 hours, especially in the middle of Summer, I cannot focus because I'm so tired/fatigued. I know his 'job' is fishing but I really respect Larry Nixon for still competing with the "young guns" at his age.

Back on topic, I wonder what fishing an NRX rod feels like to lady anglers, given their innate, heightened sensitivity, compared to us cretins.

I am 15 years older so no Appology needed. My rods are a combination of several different brands, only 3 are the same ALX custom NG+ jig/worm rods. As DVT noted the ALX are crisp 5 & 6 power fast blanks, the finished rods weigh 3.8 oz, specialized for my type of jig fishing. If you keep in contact with the line changing rods doesn't have a major impact on strike detection. If you can't detect the slightest strikes you miss bass, some of us have good tactile sensitivity, some exceptional and others poor tactile feel.

Tom

Jaderose reply :

On 10/13/2017 at 10:39 AM, WRB said:

I managed to catch over 100 DD size bass before using graphite rods! How was that possible using vintage tackle like fiberglass rods and monofilament line?

Tom

It isn't. You were hallucinating. Just like it also isn't possible to catch bass without thousands of dollars worth of electronics and CERTAINLY not without filming the experience.

K_Mac reply :

WRB, I don't think a new bass fisherman needs high-end gear to be effective. I don't think an expert needs it either.

Today's rods, reels, and lines are extremely good at almost all levels. I do think mid-level gear is often a better value than entry-level gear in performance and durability.

With that said, some of today's high-end rods are amazing in weight and sensitivity in my opinion. They are outside of my budget, but I generally hold my own with my more budget friendly stuff. Some of the better rods are a joy to use and make a long day on the water more enjoyable. It's hard to put a price on that.

I agree with Team9nine that sensitivity is a quantifiable measurement. I also agree with Catt that there are folks who can't tell the difference in an old glass rod and a new quality graphite one, other than they might notice one is a little heavier than the other. For those folks, one rod is as good as any other.

Boomstick reply :

On 10/13/2017 at 12:22 PM, WRB said:

Catt made the reference if you give a state if the art rod to someone who doesn't have any experience the sensitivity feedback is lost because of lack of experience to interpret what's being processed by the uneducated brain.

So now we enter the realm of experience verses inexperience, should a inexperienced angler buy high end rods?

Tom

That's a subjective question. I could say perhaps not because what if the person doesn't like fishing? On the other hand, I bought my first higher end, actually mid-grade rod earlier this year and at the time I wouldn't have been able to tell you what I was feeling at the bottom. But at the time I also knew that I was going to learn soon enough.

hawgenvy reply :

Sensitivity is likely something that can be measured objectively, but first it has to be defined more precisely. In other words, what exactly is sensitivity? From the angling perspective, we may say it is the ability to manually detect acceleration that occurs at the end of the fishing line. In the realm of materials science it may have some relationship to vibration transmission, and that will vary in any one particular rod with the frequency of the vibration. Perhaps if we can identify the frequency (probably low frequency) of the transmitted vibrations that we would encounter in bass fishing, and duplicate those vibrations in the lab upon a line extending from the end of a rod, we can easily (by means of a simple vibration meter placed at the reel seat) measure the amplitude of the transmitted vibrations. We could then compare it between rods.

The problem remains, though, whether such measurement will reveal any valuable information that relates to the subjective feel, effectiveness, or fishing enjoyment of any rod.

I have always wondered what parameters are used by rod blank manufacturers, and by the major rod makers who chose the blanks. Probably trade secrets that we will never be privy to.

My favorite rods, out of the three or four brands that I have fished with extensively, are the Dobyns Champion series, which seem to me light and sensitive, and give me a sense of liveliness, fun, and confidence when fighting a fish. But, who knows?, it's probably all in my head.

WRB reply :

There isn't any vibration sine waves traveling up the line through water because water that dampens it. What we feel in line moving longitudinal not axial under water.

Sensitivity is line movement through the guides into the rod blank or onto your finger tips. Materials that further dampen line movements like fiberglass reduce whatever we can feel. High modulous graphite fishing rods can attenuate the line movements increasing what we feel.

Some of us have higher sense of tactile feel and some don't, most of us are average. Some can feel a ant crawling on their skin other can't feel the ant bite them!

High end rods will never benefit some anglers and help others tremdously, most of us just like to have good toys.

Tom

Yumeya reply :

All I know is that the NRX "to me" is the most sensitive rod I have used.

The amount of vibration I feel is amazing, the second is a megabass destroyer rod.....

BassWhole! reply :

A Stradivarius isn't going to do anything for some one who can't play scales, conversely, a virtuoso can make beautiful music with a High School rental instrument. Somewhere in there is a happy medium (or is it medium heavy?)

tholmes reply :

My test for fishing rod sensitivity is simple.

Does it cry when you say mean things about it?

Tom

Angry John reply :

On 10/14/2017 at 10:21 AM, Delaware Valley Tackle said:

There is a component of the CCS rod measuring system that measured blank speed , as in recovery speed, not action. This is commonly referred to as the "crispness" of the rod and affects sensitivity. To what level it's detectable by an individual obviously can't be known. The proof is always and will always be in on-the -water use.

Speed of the rod seems to be a small factor with faster actions giving me more feeling.

RPreeb reply :

I find this topic interesting. As a long time golfer, I've found that graphite shafts in golf clubs actually reduce feel and dampen vibration compared to a steel shaft, yet graphite fishing rods enhance feel according to most of the comments here. I can't confirm or deny that because at this point in my bass fishing, I don't have the experience to know what I'm feeling - I make a lot of false hook sets. I plan to buy a "decent" rod next spring to compare to the Ugly Stik that I'm using at the moment. Maybe then I'll have a better tool to judge what is happening at the business end of my line.

Delaware Valley Tackle reply :

The golf club isn't a good analogy because, it's a club. Stiffness/weight ratio in a rod affects sensitivity. Graphite being stiffer and lighter than glass, tends to be more sensitive. It makes sense that a stiffer club would be more sensitive. A rod can't be made too stiff or it won't load to cast or fight fish effectively.

Fishin Dad reply :

Golf is an interesting analogy. I am a golf coach and club maker. I agree that graphite shafts dampen vibration in the golf swing. I will also say that with graphite being lighter weight (like a quality rod), it enhances the "feel" and awareness of where the club head is in the swing. In essence, the club head (we call it swingweight in golf) feels heavier because the shaft is lighter. I feel the same way in fishing. I FEEL the bite more with a lighter weight rod.

shamanjp reply :

I know I am late to it but I really enjoyed this thread. Thanks to everyone here. I firmly believe that interpretation of what is felt is much more important than the level of sensitivity and fine tuning that is what experience provides. Here's to working on that!

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