Trouble with Backlash on Strong Casts? 2024
Reverendo reply :
I'm not new to baitcasters, so I'm a little befuddled with this new combo I'm breaking in (Calcutta Conquest 400 & 7'10" rod, 30# Samurai braid). I'm using this combo in South Florida's inlets for snook, etc., but it is basically a swim bait combo (which is why I’m posting here). The bait is Live Target Mullet (1.5 oz.). I've adjusted the spool control knob and breaks according to standard. I can good casts with no backlash with moderate casts, and achieve moderate distance. The problem is when I really want to put some zip into the cast to get some extra distance. The extra zing gets me nasty backlash early on in the cast cycle. I've tried tightening the spool control knob but with limited success. Yes it'll stop the backlash, but it also limits the casting distance. I do use my thumb to "feather" the spool, but it is not that well trained. Is there a remedy to this other than more practice? Someone mentioned they thought my line diameter was too small for the heavy baits I intend to cast (1-3oz).
OkobojiEagle reply :
The obvious conclusion is don't try to "bomb" it, cast smoothly and consistently.
oe
roadwarrior reply :
Add another brake and loosen the spool tension control. For me that means 4 brakes.
Gorris317 reply :
I agree with above statement. I would turn on another brake and back of the spool tension knob a tad bit.
Bass_Fishing_Socal reply :
The braid kill it.
how do you know you only got moderate distance with your moderate cast?
even with well train thumb gonna be hard to do a hard cast with such heavy lure on baitcaster that why a lot of saltwater anglers switch to spinning gears for bomb cast heavy lure.
You can switch to mono and cast as hard as you can without backlash, I bet you won’t see a lot of distance gain from moderate lob cast.
Added, samurai braid #30 is only .01 diameter, I wonder how many hundreds yds can fit in 400 size shimano. That line alone would give a hard time to a lot of bass fishermen with regular low profile reel trying to bomb cast regular lures.
BassWhole! reply :
On 8/12/2019 at 9:40 PM, Gorris317 said:I agree with above statement. I would turn on another brake and back of the spool tension knob a tad bit.
Yup, in addition, you may want to try a more viscous lube in the spool bearings, and practice casting with more line off the tip and loading the rod as low as the weight of the lure will allow. I know this is different than what most LMB guys are used to, but it's how you get distance, which is the name of the game in the surf, a jetty or the like, and lastly, really lean into it, it sounds counterintuitive, but once you have set the reel right, it will cause less trouble with backlashes if you get a good sized lure sailing down range with more initial velocity.
new2BC4bass reply :
On 8/12/2019 at 9:55 PM, BassWhole! said:Yup, in addition, you may want to try a more viscous lube in the spool bearings, and practice casting with more line off the tip and loading the rod as low as the weight of the lure will allow. I know this is different than what most LMB guys are used to, but it's how you get distance, which is the name of the game in the surf, a jetty or the like, and lastly, really lean into it, it sounds counterintuitive, but once you have set the reel right, it will cause less trouble with backlashes if you get a good sized lure sailing down range with more initial velocity.
When I got my first Sol, I had all kinds of trouble with a 1/4 oz. lure. Until I finally said the hell with it and went for a long cast. Backlashes became minimal. Counter intuitive. But it worked for me.
OnthePotomac reply :
Which is why I do not like to fish with braid, except on my frog set up with 50lb 832 and I roll cast the frog. No backlash and reasonable distance and I have been on a bait caster for 19 years. I am a mono and flouro lover.
Gorris317 reply :
On 8/13/2019 at 2:29 AM, OnthePotomac said:Which is why I do not like to fish with braid, except on my frog set up with 50lb 832 and I roll cast the frog. No backlash and reasonable distance and I have been on a bait caster for 19 years. I am a mono and flouro lover.
Same here. Actually had a nasty backlash earlier this year on braid and lost a whopper plopper. Backlashed so hard the knot broke and lure went flying.
diehardbassfishing reply :
Looks like this rod (new to you I assume) has a tip that will really "whip" on those aggressive casts. Most (all?) rods will do this at some point. If you choke down the reel for backlash control at this extreme, you'll have poor performance for the majority of your use. Guess you could keep re-adjusting, but that's not what need to be doing.
The funny and important thing I've found, is that forceful casts don't really gain much (if any) extra distance anyway! Really can't beat the distance from a nice evenly forced long swing of the rod. Likely because with a good even cast the rod is not getting overloaded, and you're getting the "proper spring" out of it. Overload the spring of the rod, and things just don't go well.
I see people talking about braid, I don't have experiance to talk about this. I do know I can see out of control backlashes using mono and fluoro when casting too strong. Especially if there is any extra whip at the end of a Superman cast!
Karl
(Just read again - I see those lure weights. What is the rod's lure weight range? If you're far out of range, you need to do more of a long slow lob cast.)
dodgeguy reply :
On 8/12/2019 at 9:13 PM, roadwarrior said:Add another brake and loosen the spool tension control. For me that means 4 brakes.
What he said. Centrifugal come on at the front of the cast then back off. There is a point of no return where casting harder nets you no gain and will cut your gains in the form of backlash.my best casts are achieved without trying to bomb it.
jimmyjoe reply :
On 8/13/2019 at 9:21 AM, dodgeguy said:There is a point of no return where casting harder nets you no gain
Correct. This is because the harder cast accelerates more, keying the centrifugal control to brake harder, and damping the RPM. Surfcasters and jettymen get their long distances by using 4 oz or heavier weights and long, smooth casting strokes. Look up Tommy Farmer videos. He'll give you a good idea of how the heavier stuff works. You might find that you're already sitting in the sweet spot for the line and lures that you're using. jj
Hammer 4 reply :
Trying to cast with a bunch of power is like trying to hit a golf shot as hard as you,neither has a good outcome..
Just for reference, when I had my dobyns 806 with a Shimano 301E reel spooled with 30lb samurai braid, I could easily toss a 6" hud trout bait about 60 yards.
islandbass reply :
Are you allowing the rod to be loaded properly by the lure’s weight? If all else is properly set to the lure then this is really the main reason you’re getting the backlash. You have to ensure this. When I properly load my rod I can throw it as hard as I want (but I don’t) and the reel will not backlash. When I fail to do this you can be reasonably certain that if my last line of defense fails, ie, my thumb, a buds nest is gonna happen, lol.
Mikeltee reply :
Why the need for bomb casts? Are you my long lost siamese twin that tries to set PB with casting distance when the fish arent biting? Man I've lost a lot of lures and caused lots of hours of picking out backlashes with this habit. To our credit though people like use experiment with all settings to learn the limits of our gear so when we need to max it out, we can.
Hammer 4 reply :
Making long cast's I find helps if, your fishing in gin clear water. In stained water not so much. Also it's a good idea to be stealthy, i.e. don't make a big splash with the bait. Having the proper gear is key for making effortless long cast's.
BassWhole! reply :
I see the the term "casting harder" and the analogies to golf swings. What one is trying to achieve for long casts (and golf drives, and hitting homers, and huge tennis serves) isn't about swinging "harder" it's about swinging (or casting) faster, it's about bat (of club head, or racket, or rod) speed. Strength does come into it when talking of larger tackle, and heavier lures, but technique and timing is the key, this isn't apparent under most LMB applications, as distance is often not the objective, on the surf, it's a must.
Reverendo reply :
On 8/12/2019 at 9:50 PM, Bass_Fishing_Socal said:The braid kill it.
how do you know you only got moderate distance with your moderate cast?
even with well train thumb gonna be hard to do a hard cast with such heavy lure on baitcaster that why a lot of saltwater anglers switch to spinning gears for bomb cast heavy lure.
You can switch to mono and cast as hard as you can without backlash, I bet you won’t see a lot of distance gain from moderate lob cast.
Added, samurai braid #30 is only .01 diameter, I wonder how many hundreds yds can fit in 400 size shimano. That line alone would give a hard time to a lot of bass fishermen with regular low profile reel trying to bomb cast regular lures.
Moderate meaning a somewhat forceful cast but not very strong. lol
350yds. of 30# if you're wondering.
Reverendo reply :
For reference, the rod is a Japanese Tulala Swimbait rod (Monstruo 710), rated for 1/2 oz. to 7 oz. It has a moderate / fast taper. The 1.5 oz. Live Target mullet, does not seen to be overloading the blank. Though the lure has some drag, I do not think it's a major deal.
I just read Hammer 4's post where he casts a 6 in. Hud trout on similar outfit 60 yards. 60 yards! I find that to be insane! I think I'm getting about 30 yards out of mine, maybe 40. I will put the range finder to it this afternoon to verify.
Reverendo reply :
Yep getting about 40 yards. 42 on the good side. 38-39 on a normal cast.
Hammer 4 reply :
Rev, how do you have the brake set up on the Calcutta..? Is it possible to little braking and to much spool tension..?
Tim Kelly reply :
I would think a rod rated up to 7oz is hardly going to load with 1.5oz. Did you try lengthening the drop when you are casting? I still think your line is the biggest part of your problem though. 30 Samurai is way too thin, it's about like 10lb power pro. I would get a spool of 65lb power pro and put that on instead. I bet it helps things considerably. Absolutely no sense in putting 300 yards of any line on a reel used for bass fishing.
Reverendo reply :
OK right now I have three of the eight brakes on. I tried all the brakes on and went down to just one brake on. Of course with the one brake, I used more thumb control. In all instances the maximum distance I could get was about 40 yards. When I really try to put some uumph into it, I would get the overrun about 20 to 25 yards in.
By the way I come to the site to gain knowledge from some of the best fishermen in the industry,. In saying that I hope I don’t get flamed for saying that I’m using 350 yards mainly because I’m fishing for LMB’s Saltywater cousins, Mr. Snook. In the salt is not uncommon to have a fish, not necessarily a snook, zip off 150 yards in a blink.
new2BC4bass reply :
On 8/14/2019 at 9:10 AM, Reverendo said:Yep getting about 40 yards. 42 on the good side. 38-39 on a normal cast.
Yup. Something ain't right. My first guess would be the rod for that weight. I have a 7'6" MHF rod from a brand known to fish heavy that is rated 3/8-1 1/4 oz. It will barely cast a 1/2 oz. spinnerbait a decent fishing distance. Forget about 3/8 oz.
Lighter line will only help casting distance. I'd be leery of 30# braid as I have snapped a 1/2 oz. jig off when my 30# braid wrapped around the rod tip (spinning rod) and I didn't notice.
I'd have to say 60 yards is doable with the right rod. The reel I was using on a 7' MHF rated 1/4-1 oz. with a 3/4 oz. saltwater spoon tied on was leaving me with less than half a spool of line on my better casts. It holds 135 yds of 12# mono. I was using 40# braid which is supposed to be equivalent to 12# mono. Spool filled to the bevel. I am not one of those guys capable of spooling a reel.
Reverendo reply :
Though the rod is rated for weights up to 7 oz., I cannot see it casting something as heavy. The 1.5 oz. Live Target seems to be loading well.
I wonder if this lure's drag (resistance) is contributing to this? If my overruns are occurring midway through the cast, wouldn't that suggest the lure is slowing down quite bit?
dodgeguy reply :
Backlash midway means either more thumb or spool tension. Do you cast with the handle up ? If not turn reel 90 degrees and cast.
WRB reply :
30 lb Samuri braid is a extremely soft small diameter braid for a 400 size Calcutta reel to perform with, the spool isn't designed it.
If high capacity braid is your goal try FINS WindTamer braid, it's designed for bait casting reels.
Tom
Reverendo reply :
On 8/15/2019 at 12:56 AM, WRB said:30 lb Samuri braid is a extremely soft small diameter braid for a 400 size Calcutta reel to perform with, the spool isn't designed it.
If high capacity braid is your goal try FINS WindTamer braid, it's designed for bait casting reels.
Tom
Alright. Keep in mind that this is a Calcutta Conquest, not the regular Calcutta which is about twice the width... no kidding.
The regular Calcutta 400 is similar in size to the Millionaire 300 in this vid.
Not sure if that makes a difference?
WRB reply :
On 8/15/2019 at 2:26 AM, Reverendo said:Alright. Keep in mind that this is a Calcutta Conquest, not the regular Calcutta which is about twice the width... no kidding.
The regular Calcutta 400 is similar in size to the Millionaire 300 in this vid.
Not sure if that makes a difference?
Calcutta D and Conquest A are very similar in size and line capacity, neither reel is designed to cast 30 lb light weight braid.
The backlash issue is caused by the spool spinning faster then the line is coming off the spool. Braking systems take into account the spool weight with line or total spool weight. Samauri braid is very light weight and small dia per test.
You have 350 yards of very soft light weight braid trying to come off the spool spinning at maximum rpm's p, the centrifical force on the spooled braid want to expand the core of the line, air resistance is stopping the line in flight and the spool continues to spin at high rpm's because the brakes don't sense any change in spool weight....backlash!
40 lb Fins WindTamer doesn't tend to kit is a stiffer line so it doesn't wind knot, it's also polyuerathane coated to reduce friction and makes the line color fast.
I wouldn't go any smaller dia then .012 or .013 D / 30 or 40 lb WindTamer braid on your reel. 30 lb Samauri is .010D.
Tom
CrankFate reply :
The problem is most likely the rod. Until you have a rod that properly absorbs the power in the way you swing the rod, so that it slingshots the weight properly, you will get little help from the reel. Unfortunately, the only way to know what will work best for you is feeling what is off in the cast for yourself. Usually, you have to go through several rods to get one that will work for what your doing. It’s useless to listen to other people’s choices. That’s what gets you selling off the rods in the BST.
Once you have the right rod, you just need to find out if you need more or less line on your spool, more or less brakes, more or less spool tension, thinner or thicker line, etc, etc, etc.
The worst thing to do for this problem IMO, is just ask other people what’s wrong. The best way to fix this, is to start with the advice of others and then feel what is going wrong in the cast. It’s almost always a too stiff or too soft rod. Or a rod that flexes to close to the tip or too far down from the tip.
In my opinion 1 to 3 ounces is the easiest weight to cast and is the easiest weight to get the “feel” of what is going wrong. Try a few rods and keep doing it. Before you know it you’ll get the feel and figure it out.
WRB reply :
Any decent MH moderate action swimbait rod rated 1-5 oz will cast 1 1/2-3 oz swimbaits with ease ove 60 yards. Dobyns 795 for example would be choice in whatever price range is preferred.
.010 dia braid on a Conquest reel is problematic and surprised you haven't casted off the swimbait when getting backlashes.
Tom
islandbass reply :
On 8/14/2019 at 8:40 PM, Reverendo said:OK right now I have three of the eight brakes on. I tried all the brakes on and went down to just one brake on. Of course with the one brake, I used more thumb control. In all instances the maximum distance I could get was about 40 yards. When I really try to put some uumph into it, I would get the overrun about 20 to 25 yards in.
By the way I come to the site to gain knowledge from some of the best fishermen in the industry,. In saying that I hope I don’t get flamed for saying that I’m using 350 yards mainly because I’m fishing for LMB’s Saltywater cousins, Mr. Snook. In the salt is not uncommon to have a fish, not necessarily a snook, zip off 150 yards in a blink.
I get it. You’re merely meeting the needs of your situation and I think you’re right to do so. I would presume for most bass only anglers who will view this through their bass angler lenses to be inconceivable since they don’t and won’t ever deal with such a need.
Ive been spooled by a chum salmon with a fully loaded 200 sized curado. Would’ve been nice to have had 350 yards.
Tim Kelly reply :
I've never had any sea fishing where the species are that explosive. If a fish genuinely pulls 150 yards off you, what are the chances of you actually landing it? Seems like they'd be fish you'd be likely to lose no matter how much line you have, but I've never done it.
king fisher reply :
On 8/15/2019 at 10:50 PM, Tim Kelly said:I've never had any sea fishing where the species are that explosive. If a fish genuinely pulls 150 yards off you, what are the chances of you actually landing it? Seems like they'd be fish you'd be likely to lose no matter how much line you have, but I've never done it.
150 yard run is nothing for many saltwater fish. Even a Bonefish can take that much line in an initial run. Yes you can land a fish that takes well over 150 yards of line. Happens all the time in both salt and fresh water. In open water a person can land very big fish on light tackle, as long as you don't run out of line and time.
Paul Roberts reply :
Well... I didn't reads all the posts... apologies if I'm redundant. If your rod is exceptionally stiff (F/XF) it may be the culprit. Long bombing casts are best accomplished with a slower rod. This does not mean lacking in power. It should load on the cast, and the longer the level, the easier it is for longer and smoother casts. Something to check off as you troubleshoot.
Reverendo reply :
On 8/15/2019 at 10:50 PM, Tim Kelly said:I've never had any sea fishing where the species are that explosive. If a fish genuinely pulls 150 yards off you, what are the chances of you actually landing it? Seems like they'd be fish you'd be likely to lose no matter how much line you have, but I've never done it.
Had a 100# tarpon do that. Nearly spooled me. Fortunately, we followed him on the boat. In 45 minutes. He was boat side.
On 8/15/2019 at 11:10 PM, Paul Roberts said:Well... I didn't reads all the posts... apologies if I'm redundant. If your rod is exceptionally stiff (F/XF) it may be the culprit. Long bombing casts are best accomplished with a slower rod. This does not mean lacking in power. It should load on the cast, and the longer the level, the easier it is for longer and smoother casts. Something to check off as you troubleshoot.
It's a Mod-Fast swim bait rod...
Tim Kelly reply :
Wow. Sounds like hard work to me. I like the take, then to see the fish, the fight is just anxiety inducing and I want it over and done with before the hook falls out!
new2BC4bass reply :
On 8/15/2019 at 11:36 PM, Tim Kelly said:Wow. Sounds like hard work to me. I like the take, then to see the fish, the fight is just anxiety inducing and I want it over and done with before the hook falls out!
My fishing buddy when I visit Florida says salt water fishing is too much like work. He will stick with bass. 
Bass_Fishing_Socal reply :
I understand that you want your setup or your prefer gears to work the way you want it, but sometime you need to compromise.
Your gear now should work fine for any of small-medium size saltwater fish, but as Tom mentioned to use 0.01 diameter line and to hard cast might not suitable and create more of cumbersome than usual.
I don’t wanna say this becuz it would get back to myself. (My story was I’m using baitcaster to cast 1/32-1/16oz jig head with 1.5-2” plastic for crappies and all others told me the baitcaster not gonna work and to use spinning or spincast instead, of course I prefer my baitcaster and still using it but in the meantime I’m using spinning outfit too). I do believe in your need of plenty of line and bomb casting, spinning outfit would be the way to go.
WRB reply :
The Shiimano 400 Conquest A holds 260 yards of 14 lb (.014D?) line. If the OP changes his 30 lb (.010D) braid to 40 lb (.013D) WindTamer braid the reel should hold close to 290 yards of line. If he hooks fish that run 150 yards there is still over 125 yards of line!
Tom
roadwarrior reply :
On 8/16/2019 at 1:30 AM, WRB said:The Shiimano 400 Conquest A holds 260 yards of 14 lb (.014D?) line. If the OP changes his 30 lb (.010D) braid to 40 lb (.013D) WindTamer braid the reel should hold close to 290 yards of line. If he hooks fish that run 150 yards there is still over 125 yards of line!
Tom
Maybe we should move this to "Other Species". Even if you hook-up the World Record
largemouth bass on 2lb test line, she's not going to run 150 yards.
Reverendo reply :
Chapter 2: Update
Well I heeded the advice of several on here and removed the 30# Samurai. I had some 50# J-Braid laying around, so I spooled the reel up half way just for kicks and giggles. This morning I headed out to a nearby canal to test this theory. I played with both the spool control and brakes, with heavy thumb and without, and still could not see any difference. The longest cast was about 42 yards, with 38-39 being the average.
Right now the spool tension is set a few clicks (2-3) looser than the recommended starting point, and I have 3 of the 8 brakes on. I did try going up all the way with the brakes, as well as taking them all off. The only noticeable difference was shorter casts when using maximum brakes. Right now, I think this rules out the problem being thin line, no?
The other option I see is to change the lure. Maybe 1.5 oz mullet is catching too much wind and creating too much drag? This afternoon I'll get back out there and try a standard 1.5 oz. bucktail jig.
A last option would be to learn to cast. lol. But really, maybe I need to remove all brakes and just practice training my thumb...
Reverendo reply :
Let me say that I do appreciate all of you that took the time to give me your opinions and suggestions. I would not have considered some of these options without your feedback. So thank you.
I think I found the culprit. It seems that the 1.5 oz. Live Target Mullet is the suspect. If you've been following this thread then you know I was only able to cast this lure about 38-39 yards, and when I really put some zing into the cast, I'd get an overrun about half way.
Well I swapped out my 30# braid for 50# braid and opted to just fill the spool up half way. Then I swapped out the Mullet for a regular 1.75 oz. bucktail jig. First cast 45 yards! After taking off one brake and loosing the spool control knob 2 clicks, pow, 48-49 yards. This is a 10 yard jump over the LT mullet. It seems like a noobie mistake, but that lure apparently creates quite a bit of drag and slows down significantly once it reaches its apex. Right now I have 2 of 8 brakes on, and the spool is set several clicks lighter than the recommended setting.
To further test this finding, I will re-spool with 40# braid and tie on a simple 3 oz. bank sinker. Let's see what it'll do then.
related Fishing Rods Reels Line Knots topic
previous topic
most viewed Fishing Rods Reels Line Knots topic
© 2024 - fishing.qciss.net. All Rights Reserved.