How much do nylon lines really stretch? 2024
SNK reply :
People worry or talk about nylon type lines and the "stretching" factor of mono, fluoro, co-poly, but how much do they really stretch when you have a 1lb fish, 5 lb, or 9lb fish on the line, is it inches or is calculated in feet? And is it really enough to adversely affect you catching the fish? For instance, does it truly stretch so much that it would affect your hookset on a jig to the point that the hook does not penetrate enough.
Personally, I only use mono or co-poly for my moving baits and fluoro and braid for contact baits, but this question about line stretching has intrigued me for awhile now.
buzzed bait reply :
awesome little thread right here from @FryDog62 it should answer your questions....
Raul reply :
On 5/13/2016 at 7:47 PM, SNK said:is it really enough to adversely affect you catching the fish?
No
On 5/13/2016 at 7:47 PM, SNK said:For instance, does it truly stretch so much that it would affect your hookset on a jig to the point that the hook does not penetrate enough.
No
Red Bear reply :
On 5/13/2016 at 9:57 PM, buzzed bait said:awesome little thread right here from @FryDog62 it should answer your questions....
i dont see how this is an accurate test though. seems like lots of variables are left out...an actual hookset is not comparable to hanging an 8lb weight from fishing line either...
Scott F reply :
On 5/14/2016 at 12:28 AM, Raul said:No
No
There are differing opinions on this. Several years ago, a book was written that tested how deep 200 different lures actually ran. During the testing, they trolled lures behind a boat and used a second boat with a depth finder over the trolled lure to record the depth. When they used lighter mono lines (braided lines hadn't been invented yet!) they could see fish hit the lure on the depth finder but the guy holding the rod, almost never felt the strike. When they used thicker lines, 17 pound, that stretched less than the 10 pound line, more of the strikes were felt.
Another thing, why do fishermen need to use huge sweeping hook sets when using mono but not when using braid?
in my opinion, the stretch of nylon lines, effects your ability to get good hook sets
Raul reply :
On 5/14/2016 at 12:55 AM, Scott F said:braided lines hadn't been invented yet!)
Braided lines were invented before monofilament.
Scott F reply :
On 5/14/2016 at 12:56 AM, Raul said:Braided lines were invented before monofilament.
OK, superlines like those used today had not been invented yet. Dacron and older lines were not often used for walleye fishing during the period when the book was written and were not part of the tests.
blckshirt98 reply :
Amount of stretch will also depend on how much line you have out. I only really use mono for trout but the stretch for me has always been a few inches using 2# or 4# mono but then again I'm not casting too far out for trout, and, it depends on how heavy I have my drag set. The stretch is really noticeable when trying to get a snag out. As long as your drag is locked down tight enough you shouldn't have an issue with the stretch causing your hookset not to penetrate.
buzzed bait reply :
On 5/14/2016 at 12:45 AM, Red Bear said:i dont see how this is an accurate test though. seems like lots of variables are left out...an actual hookset is not comparable to hanging an 8lb weight from fishing line either...
i'd say that given what he laid out, it's pretty darn accurate, but as he said, he's no scientist. he took the controlled variables that were available to him and published his findings, which answer exactly what the OP had asked. i agree that it might not compare to a hookset, but i'd also argue that my hookset doesn't compare to yours and vice versa.... my equipment, drag, hook, etc. don't compare exactly to yours and so on and so on.
Red Bear reply :
On 5/14/2016 at 1:57 AM, buzzed bait said:i'd say that given what he laid out, it's pretty darn accurate, but as he said, he's no scientist. he took the controlled variables that were available to him and published his findings, which answer exactly what the OP had asked. i agree that it might not compare to a hookset, but i'd also argue that my hookset doesn't compare to yours and vice versa.... my equipment, drag, hook, etc. don't compare exactly to yours and so on and so on.
you actually list many of the reasons(i bolded) as to why i dont think its an accurate test, too many variables missing for me to even think its remotely accurate. you actually help my argument with that post. in addition to those, dead hanging a weight isnt the same as a hookset that would jerk on the weight and move it forward. a hookset is a swift motion, takes like a second or two, how long did that weight hang there on the line during testing? and how many people are actually setting the hook into 8lb bass on the regular? etc etc etc...
IndianaFinesse reply :
On 5/14/2016 at 2:35 AM, Red Bear said:you actually list many of the reasons(i bolded) as to why i dont think its an accurate test, too many variables missing for me to even think its remotely accurate. you actually help my argument with that post. in addition to those, dead hanging a weight isnt the same as a hookset that would jerk on the weight and move it forward. a hookset is a swift motion, takes like a second or two, how long did that weight hang there on the line during testing? and how many people are actually setting the hook into 8lb bass on the regular? etc etc etc...
Do you have any suggestions on how to do it better, or are you just going to complain about its supposed lack of accuracy?
Red Bear reply :
On 5/14/2016 at 2:59 AM, IndianaFinesse said:Do you have any suggestions on how to do it better, or are you just going to complain about its supposed lack of accuracy?
yeah, account for all of the missing variables...
also, you see it as complaining for some reason, i see it as me simply disagreeing with the method used...
IndianaFinesse reply :
On 5/14/2016 at 3:14 AM, Red Bear said:yeah, account for all of the missing variables...
also, you see it as complaining for some reason, i see it as me simply disagreeing with the method used...
Well, then set up your own tests. He did as well as he could with out fancy equipment, but you are right in saying that it is impossible to actually test it in real life circumstances but he got about as close as realistically possible.
buzzed bait reply :
On 5/14/2016 at 2:35 AM, Red Bear said:you actually list many of the reasons(i bolded) as to why i dont think its an accurate test, too many variables missing for me to even think its remotely accurate. you actually help my argument with that post. in addition to those, dead hanging a weight isnt the same as a hookset that would jerk on the weight and move it forward. a hookset is a swift motion, takes like a second or two, how long did that weight hang there on the line during testing? and how many people are actually setting the hook into 8lb bass on the regular? etc etc etc...
i hear ya.... and agreed with you!
oddly enough, FryDog does his samples like the "pros" do over on TT.... with controlled variables (the way most legitimate "scientific" studies would be done)
http://www.tackletour.com/reviewfluorocarbon2.html
Catt reply :
I've caught 33 double digit bass on mono & 27 were at depths below 15'!
So it's my opinion mono does not effect hook set!
Scott F reply :
On 5/14/2016 at 4:16 AM, Catt said:I've caught 33 double digit bass on mono & 27 were at depths below 15'!
So it's my opinion mono does not effect hook set!
Nobody said you can't get a good hookset with mono but the stretch does have an effect. The lack of stretch in braid also has a different effect. As long as you make the adjustment, to accommodate for the stretch or lack of stretch you can land your catch. Most everyone learned using mono so you don't think about it. When you switched to a braided line, you should have had to adjust. Guys who use the same hookset with braid as they do mono tend to rip lips.
Team9nine reply :
On 5/13/2016 at 7:47 PM, SNK said:People worry or talk about nylon type lines and the "stretching" factor of mono, fluoro, co-poly, but how much do they really stretch when you have a 1lb fish, 5 lb, or 9lb fish on the line, is it inches or is calculated in feet? And is it really enough to adversely affect you catching the fish? For instance, does it truly stretch so much that it would affect your hookset on a jig to the point that the hook does not penetrate enough.
Most all these tests have been done and documented. The short answer is yes, it does affect your hook set...but there are variables. I don't have a ton of time to go into details at the moment, but keep 30 ft in mind as the magic number. The majority of the differences lie in distance to your bait upon hook set, combined with the overall diameter of your line (i.e., heavy vs light). At 30', everything is about equal. Less than 30 ft., heavy line will get you a better hook set. Over 30 ft, and lighter line will get you a better hook set. There will be some stretch at all distances, but slack in the line also plays a part as you rarely have a true straight line connection to your bait. At 100 ft vs. 20 ft., hook setting power is halved for lighter line. But for heavier line at the same distances, it is cut down to about 1/3. Proper hook-setting technique, as Catt has alluded to in other threads, can make a big difference in how much force is actually generated. Keep in mind this is all in regards to nylon lines.
-T9
roadwarrior reply :
On 5/13/2016 at 9:57 PM, buzzed bait said:awesome little thread right here from @FryDog62 it should answer your questions....
Pretty strong argument for at least giving Yo-Zuri Hybrid a shot.
Catt reply :
On 5/14/2016 at 4:28 AM, Scott F said:Nobody said you can't get a good hookset with mono but the stretch does have an effect. The lack of stretch in braid also has a different effect. As long as you make the adjustment, to accommodate for the stretch or lack of stretch you can land your catch. Most everyone learned using mono so you don't think about it. When you switched to a braided line, you should have had to adjust. Guys who use the same hookset with braid as they do mono tend to rip lips.
My question is what is the effect?
My hook up ratio is in the upper 90%
With that said I know guys with a hook up ratio of under 60% with braid.
I think it's like sensitivity, it depends on who is holding the rod.
Cgrinder reply :
A lot.
Also I appreciate the work that Frydog puts in but I question the external validity of his studies, i.e. are we effectively measuring line stretch during normal fishing activities or simply line stretch under the conditions of the experiment?
Scott F reply :
On 5/14/2016 at 7:13 AM, Catt said:I think it's like sensitivity, it depends on who is holding the rod.
Exactly. You've been fishing for so long that setting the hook with mono is second nature, you don't have to think about it. Guys who have the 60% hook up ratio with braid have not made the adjustments necessary to working with a line that does not stretch. I've been using braid for so long that if I went beck to mono, I'd have problems at first until I readjusted to the different characteristics of mono. The big difference is stretch. I don't put in nearly the number of hours on the water that many guys do so If I had some rods with braid, some with fluoro and some with mono, it would be hard for me to fish all of them effectively without enough practice to getting used the the different feel of each line. Those differences to me are the effects I was talking about.
Catt reply :
On 5/14/2016 at 7:27 AM, Scott F said:Exactly. You've been fishing for so long that setting the hook with mono is second nature, you don't have to think about it. Guys who have the 60% hook up ratio with braid have not made the adjustments necessary to working with a line that does not stretch. I've been using braid for so long that if I went beck to mono, I'd have problems at first until I readjusted to the different characteristics of mono. The big difference is stretch. I don't put in nearly the number of hours on the water that many guys do so If I had some rods with braid, some with fluoro and some with mono, it would be hard for me to fish all of them effectively without enough practice to getting used the the different feel of each line. Those differences to me are the effects I was talking about.
That's why I tell my students to pick one & stick with it until the grain experience enough to try others. I think trying to master all 3 for a novice is an exercise in futility!
I do have one rod with fluorocarbon & one with braid & everything else is mono.
Delaware Valley Tackle reply :
Mono, co-poly and braid will all catch fish with regularity. Each has pluses and minuses and requires its own technique. Only hands on experience can teach you your personal preference. All we can do is share opinions. I like Catts idea of focusing on one at a time.
buzzed bait reply :
On 5/14/2016 at 7:25 AM, Cgrinder said:A lot.
Also I appreciate the work that Frydog puts in but I question the external validity of his studies, i.e. are we effectively measuring line stretch during normal fishing activities or simply line stretch under the conditions of the experiment?
i get what you're saying, but i can't logically think of another way you'd do this under those "normal fishing conditions" when there is no such thing as normal fishing conditions.
it's much like the miles per gallon rating in the window of a new vehicle. they didn't test every single possible way the car would be driven, on every road, with every driver, with every tire, with rain/snow/wind, etc etc etc. they took a controlled study and put every vehicle on the same playing field, same as frydog's study. i think he's about as close as one can get to answering the op's questions about stretch with his experiment.
Josh Smith reply :
Is it December again?
QUAKEnSHAKE reply :
On 5/14/2016 at 10:37 AM, Josh Smith said:Is it December again?
Just about its going down to mid 30's tomorrow
Cgrinder reply :
On 5/14/2016 at 10:34 AM, buzzed bait said:i get what you're saying, but i can't logically think of another way you'd do this under those "normal fishing conditions" when there is no such thing as normal fishing conditions.
it's much like the miles per gallon rating in the window of a new vehicle. they didn't test every single possible way the car would be driven, on every road, with every driver, with every tire, with rain/snow/wind, etc etc etc. they took a controlled study and put every vehicle on the same playing field, same as frydog's study. i think he's about as close as one can get to answering the op's questions about stretch with his experiment.
I was more getting at hooksets and the give and take pulls of fighting fish compared to line stretch over a period of time with a static load applied.
I'm also interested in to what degree line returns to form after being stretched suddenly, like on a hookset. I'm noticing things like Hybrid stretching like crazy on hooksets and Red Label being cool with being slowly stretched but turning white and gross after a shock.
And no it's not winter. Research design is part of my Master's and I'm all about nerding it up with tests like Frydog's.
iabass8 reply :
On 5/14/2016 at 1:57 AM, buzzed bait said:i'd say that given what he laid out, it's pretty darn accurate, but as he said, he's no scientist. he took the controlled variables that were available to him and published his findings, which answer exactly what the OP had asked. i agree that it might not compare to a hookset, but i'd also argue that my hookset doesn't compare to yours and vice versa.... my equipment, drag, hook, etc. don't compare exactly to yours and so on and so on.
His test, while extensive and thourough, isn't a good indication of how certain lines stretch. His test only utilizes 8# lines from various manufacturers. Smaller diameter lines stretch more than a larger diameter line. For example, making the statement "according to this test, sniper stretches as much as invisiz" is an incorrect blanket statement. 20# sniper stretches quite a but less than 7#. Same idea for invisx but 20# sniper has less stretch than 20# invisx. See how confusing this gets? Simply looking at his "data" and trying to make an apples to apples comparison or referring people to it when they have a question about x vs x line would be misleading and uninformative. Most people dont use 8# line on a casting reel in the first place.
Long story short, people used to punch with mono and 1.5 oz of lead. Dont overthink it. Unless you're going to pay for tatsu, shooter, dragoncall, (sniper to an extent) etc, you arent going to see a huge difference.
Josh Smith reply :
On 5/14/2016 at 12:14 PM, QUAKEnSHAKE said:Just about its going down to mid 30's tomorrow
Perfect time to go fishing, to prove to yourself that you can catch fish after a major coldfront.
Josh
*Hootie reply :
On 5/14/2016 at 11:44 PM, Josh Smith said:Perfect time to go fishing, to prove to yourself that you can catch fish after a major coldfront.
Josh
On mono.
Hootie
blckshirt98 reply :
I read an interesting bit in the Bassmaster blogs during their Toledo Bend coverage - Chris Lane said when he used to use mono for frogging but lost a couple of lunkers, it drove him mad why his hooksets didn't stick. He got his frog setup, let enough mono out as if he were casting on the water, and had his dad hold the far end of the line where the frog would be. He did a hookset, asked his dad how it felt, and his dad said he "barely felt it". So now Chris Lane uses braid when using a frog because the stretch of the nylon didn't provide the rigidity to drive the hooks in.
You can probably try this with your own setup, and see if the mono is stretching too much for your liking.
K_Mac reply :
Yes, there is enough stretch in monofilament to matter to me, especially lighter line in deeper water. I use fluorocarbon for any application that requires a sensitive feel. This is based on countless hours on the water. Yes, I know that fluorocarbon also stretches and do not want to restart that argument. Catt and many others love Big Game, I don't. You can't argue with Catt's success, but BG doesn't make me happy! Some will tell you braid and a leader is the answer to any line question; I would rather use Big Game! My point is that you can only answer these questions for yourself on the water.
WRB reply :
If mono stretched and caused hook set issues how did I catch several hundred DD bass on jigs using 12 lb mono over 40 year period from deep water making casts over 100' , before we had super sharpe hooks.
Nylon, FC, copolymer and hybrid single filament line having the same diameter all stretch within a few percentage points, very little difference. The fact Nylon line is lighter than water it tends to float combined with a higher coeffient of drag than FC the line bows going through water. This bow affect increases the length of line in the water verses FC or braid. When you pull on the lure the bow or slack must be eliminated before any force is applied to the hook. What you feel as stretch is actually a bow in the line being straighten and overcoming the force or drag the water creates.
Tom
Josh Smith reply :
Dang, guys, there are times I want stretch in my line.
When I don't want stretch, I use braid.
FC and plain mono, in my experience, stretch the same. I got rid of the FC because it just wasn't giving me benefits over plain ol' Trilene in my waters.
I have two rods rigged with mono, one with straight braid, and two with braid with mono leaders. These are the rods I use regularly. The ultralight sometimes has a leader; right now it doesn't, but that's only because I snapped it off last time I was out and decided to see if crappie would bite without a leader. (Crappie fishing with a bobber while smallie fishing with a spinnerbait here; only caught a drum on either!)
Josh
FryDog62 reply :
On 5/14/2016 at 12:28 AM, Raul said:No
No
Worth noting is that the reason I decided to buy 20 lines for the stretch test is because I "sensed" that fluorocarbon stretched so much that I was having difficulty getting good hook sets on longer casts which adversely affected my ability to catch fish.
... I wanted to go beyond just sensing and objectively do some testing to determine if what I thought I was feeling was true --
iabass8 reply :
On 5/15/2016 at 1:39 PM, FryDog62 said:Worth noting is that the reason I decided to buy 20 lines for the stretch test is because I "sensed" that fluorocarbon stretched so much that I was having difficulty getting good hook sets on longer casts which adversely affected my ability to catch fish.
... I wanted to go beyond just sensing and objectively do some testing to determine if what I thought I was feeling was true --
The "problem" ( i say problem because you did do quite a bit of good work and I'm not trying to take away from that) with your test is you did it /w 8# line. Lower # test lines have more stretch than their counterparts in higher #. If somebody were looking for a fluorocarbon line to use in heavy cover and were to be directed to your data, they would be mislead in thinking that a certain line stretches more or less than another when different lines stretch differently at different #. An example I made eariler was 7-8# sniper has quite a bit of stretch acts a lot like a mono but 20# sniper doesn't have half as much as the 7/8#.
Catt reply :
On 5/15/2016 at 9:04 PM, iabass8 said:An example I made eariler was 7-8# sniper has quite a bit of stretch acts a lot like a mono but 20# sniper doesn't have half as much as the 7/8#.
So would mono!
Fluorocarbon was sold to the public as being invisible & non stretch or lower stretch that mono. The fact is fluorocarbon has as much & in some instances more.
iabass8 reply :
On 5/15/2016 at 9:48 PM, Catt said:So would mono!
Fluorocarbon was sold to the public as being invisible & non stretch or lower stretch that mono. The fact is fluorocarbon has as much & in some instances more.
Again....I already said that in most instances you won't notice a drastic, if any, difference in using most lower end/economy/some mid fluorocarbons and a quality mono/copoly. It's when you get into the higher end Dragoncall, tatsu and Shooter that the differences become very noticeable but you have to "pay to play" for those lines. .
Maxximus Redneckus reply :
Rod bends,hook penetrates,drag then maybe line stretches.all in about 5 seconds .im my experiance the only real con with nylon is longtivity .then again we found my brothers surf rod under sand a year later after a hurricane with 15 lb big game a little faded but still had great knot strength so line stretch to me dont matter unless near a platform crane with 80k lbs of steel beams
Red Bear reply :
On 5/16/2016 at 12:06 AM, Maxximus Redneckus said:Rod bends,hook penetrates,drag then maybe line stretches.all in about 5 seconds .im my experiance the only real con with nylon is longtivity .then again we found my brothers surf rod under sand a year later after a hurricane with 15 lb big game a little faded but still had great knot strength so line stretch to me dont matter unless near a platform crane with 80k lbs of steel beams
longevity, really? i will leave mono on my reels for years if i dont use it up first. i have had no problems with it "aging". unless improperly stored, mono will last ages, and a few hours out in the sun every now and then doesnt really affect that either in my experiences. only reason i change my mono line is if its getting low on the spool or if i just simply want to try a different brand of mono line. i've never had to change it because it was old or brittle. now one of my uncles on the other hand, stored his fishing gear in an uncontrolled(temperature wise) garage for years and you could grab a section with both hands, pull and it would snap right in half. for some reason he got mad at me when i made him change all of it with fresh line lol. i got tired of pulling his broken off hooks out of bass in my other uncles pond...
but i swear, and i try to keep my mouth shut about it most times because people can do what they want if it makes them feel better, but it ticks me off to see how many people waste line, and in particular mono because its cheaper. there is virtually no need to change line after every fishing trip, NONE!!! so long as the line isnt total crap to begin with. i dont care if you fish recreational or tournaments. your line isnt going to go bad in a week or two...
Maxximus Redneckus reply :
On 5/17/2016 at 4:21 AM, Red Bear said:longevity, really? i will leave mono on my reels for years if i dont use it up first. i have had no problems with it "aging". unless improperly stored, mono will last ages, and a few hours out in the sun every now and then doesnt really affect that either in my experiences. only reason i change my mono line is if its getting low on the spool or if i just simply want to try a different brand of mono line. i've never had to change it because it was old or brittle. now one of my uncles on the other hand, stored his fishing gear in an uncontrolled(temperature wise) garage for years and you could grab a section with both hands, pull and it would snap right in half. for some reason he got mad at me when i made him change all of it with fresh line lol. i got tired of pulling his broken off hooks out of bass in my other uncles pond...
but i swear, and i try to keep my mouth shut about it most times because people can do what they want if it makes them feel better, but it ticks me off to see how many people waste line, and in particular mono because its cheaper. there is virtually no need to change line after every fishing trip, NONE!!! so long as the line isnt total crap to begin with. i dont care if you fish recreational or tournaments. your line isnt going to go bad in a week or two...
Thats what i mean i never had a prob with longtivity that big game survived saltwater,freezing,sun ,sand and moisture the reel was shot and all the guides where corroded lol
Red Bear reply :
On 5/17/2016 at 5:23 AM, Maxximus Redneckus said:Thats what i mean i never had a prob with longtivity that big game survived saltwater,freezing,sun ,sand and moisture the reel was shot and all the guides where corroded lol
oh, haha, i guess i read it wrong
Maxximus Redneckus reply :
On 5/17/2016 at 11:49 PM, Red Bear said:oh, haha, i guess i read it wrong
Was just challenging ppl that change there mono weekly.lol saying its no good .i use mono in saltwater way more extreme conditions then any freshwater pond i can get about 6 months out of it and it aint the sun that hurts it.them barnacles ,oystershells and pilings and bluefish and stripers.
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