To Leader or Not To Leader 2024

Zeeter reply :

I started using braid years ago and would always start out with a fluorocarbon leader. More times than not that leader would come off at some point during the day as I my rig got stuck on what-not. Do I bother tying a new leader on? Nope. Yet I never saw a drop in bites when going straight braid.

Reading a lot of articles today, I'm finding that this is becoming a trend. Some folks go as far as to use a Sharpie on the first three feet or so of their braid, but many don't even do that.

What's everyone's thoughts on leaders with braid?

Catt reply :

Never have & have no intention to start

Darren. reply :

Zeeter, as yours and other experiences prove, you can

catch fish with straight braid, no leader.

My reason for always using a leader, and I've stated this

numerous times in other threads, is because braid is an

expensive line (at least for me) and I prefer to keep as

much of it on my spool as possible for as long as possible.

That said, a leader allows me to make numerous lure/hook

changes during an outing before I have to cut in to my

braided mainline to tie on another leader.

roadwarrior reply :

I ALWAYS use a leader: Visibility, abrasion resistance and the ability to break-off when you need to.

Zeeter reply :

All good points. Yet what of the time to tie the lines together? End to end knots aren't easy - especially in a boat with even a little wind.

I buy my braid in 500 yard spools, so while I may be using more of it due to abrasion it doesn't seem so bad mentally.

On the other hand, I'm only talking about fishing out on the lake with my son. When I get a snag I can just move the boat there and get myself loose. I can't ask a boater to do that for me during a tournament, so having that leader as a beak point would come in handy as opposed to snipping the line at the rod and losing 25 - 40 feet of braid.

Yet another factor is in casting. Unless your leader is entirely past the tip you will get more distance with only braid. That knot running through the eyes will reduce casting distance.

By the way, I usually use the double uni-knot, but saw today the Alberto knot. What do you guys use?

fishnkamp reply :

I use a 4 foot leader on every spinning reel Linda and I fish. I use the double uni knot every time without any issue. Those knots stand up to stripers, big cats and all of the bass we catch. It takes less than a minute to tie it correctly. I also use a leader on certain baitcasters when I want to be more invisible but again in the last 6 years I have yet to have a line break at the double uni knot. As for casting distance that is bogus I have not seen an issue even on my micro guide rods.

Darren. reply :

I second the uni-to-uni which I've been using more

lately even over my other fave, the Mod'd Albright/

Alberto.

My Legend Tournament spinning rod has micro guides

and the uni-to-uni flows fine through them. No issue

with reduced casting distance (as compared to a short

leader being cast w/o being past first guide).

Realize I'm using 10# and 15# Power Pro and SuperSlick8

which is very thin. Fluoro leaders in 6, 8, and 10# test

does not increase the knot size enough to cause issue

with the micro guides either (with uni-to-uni).

junyer357 reply :

I use one at times. If the visibilty is over a foot or so, or if fishing rocky or other areas that cut braid to shreds. I much rather prefer not using a leader if at all possible. Its one less knot and failure point.

When i do, its going on powerpro slick 8 in either 15# or 20#. For leaders i use seaguar blue label leader material. I use an improved albright knot but am learning the fg knot and using it more. I found the true leader material to work much better than regular flouro. Its more resistant to abraision and very stiff.

Zeeter reply :

I use 40# power pro. Not because I expect a 40# fish, but it's got the same diameter as 10# mono and so is easier to cast. If I use a leader I put use fluorocarbon leader material - not the spool type.

WI_Angler1989 reply :

I leader. Always. I fish clear (relatively) Wisconsin rivers for smallmouth. All the pros of the fluoro leader are a must here: The abrasion resistance because it's rocky, the invisibility since the water is so clear, the fact it sinks since I fish bottom contact a lot, and the very low stretch gives a small shock absorption over the braid.

The cons, aka the knot, is nothing to me. Sometimes it's a pain to retie or if there's wind, but practice makes better!

One thing that isn't mentioned often is that when you use a leader with braid, you go through sooooo much less braid! Pretty much the only line I cut off is what's necessary to retie.

For me it's a must. Is it 100% necessary? I doubt it, but sometimes it's all the difference and for me the line performance outweighs the "visibility" argument. So I guess it's all about confidence in the end.

Bluebasser86 reply :

I use a leader on my spinning rods with braid when I need abrasion resistance or lower visibility line. I've never used a leader on a casting rod with braid and have no intentions to.

Zeeter reply :

So from the sounds of it, I think when I'm doing general worm fishing in clear water I will try to use a leader, but when flipping I might go without.

Thanks for everyone's input.

RoLo reply :

On 2/11/2017 at 10:22 PM, Catt said:

Never have & have no intention to start

DITTO

Two knots involving fluorocarbon is 4 times worse than one knot involving braid.

Happily there are no zebra mussels in Florida, and the closest thing to rocks is coquina.

As for line visibility, the fish here don't even shy away from treble hooks

Roger

JustinJ reply :

I have tried both and really cant say I've seen a difference. If im worried about abrasion resistance around rock I would just fish straight mono or fluoro

WRB reply :

Line diameter, weight and stiffness vs lure size/weight can affect the lures action.

Both braid and nylon monofilament lines tend to float on the water surface whereas FC line tends to sink.

Why do you use a FC leader with braid? FC has lower knot strength than mono line and you have 2 knots. Bass are not line shy fish like trout are for example. FC has too many downsides to use as a leader, IMO! FC as a main line when you want a sinking line with less coeffient of drag going through water for bottom contact lures may be an advantage over mono, however always a risk of knot failure.

I see the pros are going back to the old braid knot; double line clinch knot.

I use my boat cleat or a wooden dowl to wrap braid around to break it, you can damage a reel, break a rod trying to pull a snagged lure tied direct to braid.

Tom

38 Super Fan reply :

On 2/12/2017 at 1:13 AM, Bluebasser86 said:

I use a leader on my spinning rods with braid when I need abrasion resistance or lower visibility line. I've never used a leader on a casting rod with braid and have no intentions to.

Same here, I use one often on spinning gear, but never on casting gear.

S. Sass reply :

On 2/11/2017 at 11:02 PM, fishnkamp said:

As for casting distance that is bogus I have not seen an issue even on my micro guide rods.

On 2/11/2017 at 11:11 PM, Darren. said:

My Legend Tournament spinning rod has micro guides

and the uni-to-uni flows fine through them. No issue

with reduced casting distance (as compared to a short

leader being cast w/o being past first guide)

So you two think Diawa T-Wing is nothing but hype / hoax? I mean if your banging knots through multiple guides and can't tell a difference how could anyone notice a difference in the smooth line going through a T-Wing vs a standard opening once?

I agree with Catt. It's a waste for me. I generally don't buy the most expensive braid and 9 out of 10 times I don't have to cut my line anyway. I don't care to waste time adding more knots and worrying about the $2 I save in line over a week. Just seems like a lot of bull for no measurable gain to me.

Darren. reply :

On 2/12/2017 at 3:20 AM, S. Sass said:

So you two think Diawa T-Wing is nothing but hype / hoax? I mean if your banging knots through multiple guides and can't tell a difference how could anyone notice a difference in the smooth line going through a T-Wing vs a standard opening once?

I agree with Catt. It's a waste for me. I generally don't buy the most expensive braid and 9 out of 10 times I don't have to cut my line anyway. I don't care to waste time adding more knots and worrying about the $2 I save in line over a week. Just seems like a lot of bull for no measurable gain to me.

What does the OP question have to do with a Daiwa T-Wing?

Never used a Daiwa reel with that feature, and I specifically mentioned

my spinning rod and MY experience.

Bull for no measurable gain to you? But no bull in my comments.

I was relating my experience and I stand by it. I also qualified the

braid and leader sizes I'm using. All small diameter.

Quote

Realize I'm using 10# and 15# Power Pro and SuperSlick8

which is very thin. Fluoro leaders in 6, 8, and 10# test

does not increase the knot size enough to cause issue

with the micro guides either (with uni-to-uni).

S. Sass reply :

On 2/12/2017 at 3:29 AM, Darren. said:

What does the OP question have to do with a Daiwa T-Wing?

Never used a Daiwa reel with that feature, and I specifically mentioned

my spinning rod and MY experience.

Bull for no measurable gain to you? But no bull in my comments.

I was relating my experience and I stand by it. I also qualified the

braid and leader sizes I'm using. All small diameter.

Actually the OP question was about To Leader or Not To Leader.

However In your response you brought up the relevance of line resistance saying knots banging off things didn't effect your casting distance. I just asked a question concerning your expressed experience vs a relevant question concerning Daiwa claims that it is related to. I didn't say you were right or wrong it was a question I was trying to see if you had the same if any experience or thoughts on that as well.

I went on to respond to the OP thread as to my thoughts there as well.

Darren. reply :

On 2/12/2017 at 3:46 AM, S. Sass said:

Actually the OP question was about To Leader or Not To Leader.

However In your response you brought up the relevance of line resistance saying knots banging off things didn't effect your casting distance. I just asked a question concerning your expressed experience vs a relevant question concerning Daiwa claims that it is related to. I didn't say you were right or wrong it was a question I was trying to see if you had the same if any experience or thoughts on that as well.

I went on to respond to the OP thread as to my thoughts there as well.

Fair enough. As to the OP question, yeah, I know. I did

provide a specific answer to that, too, the other was in

response to @fishnkamp

Since I have no idea of the "Daiwa claims that it is related

to", with respect to T-Wing, your Daiwa question, to me,

came out of nowhere and left me scratching my head.

All good. Carry on and catch big bass. Leader or not!

Gundog reply :

I use mono (no leader) in rivers cause I know I'm gonna get snagged in places I can't reach. Mono allows me to break the line. In lakes its different. I fish clear lakes with mono or braid (no leader) cause I can get to my lure or above it with my canoe and get it unstuck. I've seen no difference in catch rates. The times I've had to try a leader have not been good. Even with a uni-uni knot I've had decreased casting distance and occasionally the knot has stopped a cast dead. Add to that the fact, as stated in other posts, that more knots is more chances at a break gives me enough reason to just not fish a leader. I understand why tournament guys use it but I just fish for fun and ain't nothing fun about a good fish breaking off.

Smokinal reply :

I keep 12 rods on my boat and all but one have a braid/leader setup on them. The one that doesn't is a frog setup for frogs in grass. All others are braid/leader setups. Reason=abrasion resistance. There is no argument here; just personal preference and needs. I'm in Maine and if any if any of you fished here with braid, you would have a leader. If not, you wouldn't land a fish. (slight exaggeration) All of our lakes are full of rock and braid has no abrasion resistance on rock. It all comes down to confidence in your setup and needs to your environment.

fishnkamp reply :

S Sass I do not speak for Darren, but he and I do agree on a lot of fishing habits here on this board. We both offered honest answers to the op's original topic which was essentially "is it worth using a leader".

In my case I fish off color tidal Chesapeake Bay rivers and creeks. This includes the Susquehanna River, Susqy flats, an area at the mouth of the Susqy river and the Chesapeake bay. Millions of free flowing, fresh clear river water and the tidal bay waters mix in a shallow area full of grass beds, lily pad fields along with river rocks and debris. The other tidal rivers I fish include Middle River ( the river Aaron Martens won the BaSS Elite event on just a few years ago) and even the tidal Potomac River.

I also vacation in Tennessee and Kentucky and there we fish gin clear very large ( like 60 mile long) lakes and deep water. Sometimes, when I fish Dale Hollow and Center Hill you can see almost 8 to 10 foot down. Often we fish for smallies suspended as far as 30 foot down on 100 foot deep main lake areas. For me, it is easier to rig my gear one way. This gives me total confidence in what I can do and how my equipment will operate.

I have said this repeatedly in many of the post on here. I prefer 14 pound Berkley FireLine original Fused braid and a 4 foot leader made up of 10 pound P Line CXX in moss green. Perhaps that combo is the reason that I can state that in 6 or 7 years I have never had my leader to main line knot break. I was first introduced to using P LIne CXX by an angler that fishes on the FLW circuits. His name is Craig Powers and he was guiding us on Center Hill Lake for 2 days. My avatar picture is a huge Kentucky spotted bass caught on that spinning setup and a shakey head worm. Maybe others here are having difficulties due to using fluorocarbon leaders. The only time I use any other line besides the CXX is if I want more invisibility. Then I will use P Line Floroclear which is a copoly line with a fluoro coating. It also helps to tie the knots often enough that you are proficient with them

This is the setup on all of my spinning rods. You can find a few of my baitcasters that have braid and a leader made of the same P Line CXX 10 pound test ( it breaks at around 23 pounds). These will again be around 4 or 5 feet so they never really go through the T wing on any of my Diawas. If you have read any of my responses to topics on reels you already know I am a total fan of the Tatula family of reels.

As for your post

"So you two think Diawa T-Wing is nothing but hype / hoax? I mean if your banging knots through multiple guides and can't tell a difference how could anyone notice a difference in the smooth line going through a T-Wing vs a standard opening once?"

The purpose of a T wing is to help lower the resistance the line encounters when it is coming off the spool at a point farthest away from the line guide opening. In my personal experience it does help me cast better, especially in pitching or underhand roll casts. Here you do not have as large an arm movement to gain momentum. Right or wrong that has been my experience while using these reels for over 3 years.

I fish with 4 Tatula Type R reels and 2 Tatula CTs. I use them on crankbait and rattle trap rods, rods I fish texas rigs and jigs on, jerkbait rods, rods I fish paddle tail swimbaits on, my Punching rod and my frog rod.

Now some of my 12 baitcasters have P Line Halo, one has mono, some have braid and get tied direct to the lure, and some have braid and a 4 foot leader, it depends on the technique

If you do not believe that Diawa makes a reel that is to your liking, then I suggest you look at Lews and Shimano. I am certain you can find something that those fine reel manufacturers produce that will fit you better. I sold off a bunch of reels made by Shimano, Bass Pro Shops, 1 Lews and 1 Quantum. I am not suggesting they were all bad, just that once I found the Diawa line "fit me" well, I sold off the others.

Jeff H reply :

On 2/11/2017 at 10:22 PM, Catt said:

Never have & have no intention to start

Same here, short and simple answer.

N Florida Mike reply :

Y'all, this is one overcomplicated thread.I never use a leader.I use mono for most of my gear.I have a few that are braid.I Tie the hook directly to both and have no problems catching plenty of fish.

RMax reply :

I tie a mono leader onto my braid for texas and other non moving rigs. I like it because I can snap the knot if its a real bad snag, instead of cutting the braid. If you cut off 10 feet of braid everytime you get snagged, eventually you'll start casting to your backing and have to remove all that braid and put on a whole new spool, which is a waste. Its also just a confidence thing for me.

Yudo1 reply :

I also use leaders so I can break off snags.

.ghoti. reply :

I'll use a leader occasionally, when trout fishing. I fish Taneycomo every summer while the wife is doing whatever she does with the grandkids. Summer on Taneycomo can be tough fishing. I use 4lb test Invizx, and that is too visible at times, and out comes the little spool of 7X tippet. 2lb test fluorocarbon leader. Some times that's the only way to get bit.

Other than that, I don't need a leader. My main line is good enough. I do not use braid. I despise that crap. Other than the two reels I use only for trout, all my reels are spooled with mono; from 4 - 8 for spinning reels, 8 - 14 for casting reels.

Sam reply :

"To leader or not to leader, that is the question." (Herman Shakespeare in his novel, Omelets.

Here is what Herman wrote:

To braid, or not to braid, that is the question:
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of losing bass,
Or to take Arms against a Sea of troubles,
And by opposing end them: to die, to sleep
No more; and by a sleep, to say we end
the heart-ache, and the thousand natural shocks
that bass are heir to? 'Tis a consummation
devoutly to be wished. To die, to sleep,
To sleep, perchance to Dream; aye, there's the rub,
for in that sleep of death, what dreams may come,
when we have shuffled off this mortal coil,
must give us pause. There's the respect
that makes catching bass of so long life:
For who would bear the bugs and bad weather of time,
the bass’ wrong, the proud man's Contumely (breaking off)
the pangs of despised Love for that little green monster, the technique delay,
the insolence of the bass, and the spurns
that patient merit of the unworthy hook sets,
when he himself might his fishing rod make
with a bare strike of the rod? Who would Fardels the Big Bass bear,
to grunt and sweat under a weary life,
but that the dread of something after death,
the undiscovered country, from whose bourn
no fisherman returns, puzzles the will,
and makes us rather bear those ills we have,
than fly to others that we know not of, be it a Palmore or an Uni.
Thus the use of a leader does make cowards of us all,
and thus the native hue of Resolution to nail that fat bass.
Is sicklied o'er, with the pale cast of Thought,
And enterprises of great pitch and moment,
with this regard their bass turn awry,
And lose in the name of Glenn and Road Warrior. Soft you now,
The fair personal best? Big Mother, in thy dreams
Be all my sins remembered how to tie the leader to the braid.

It really boils down to what you have confidence.

MickD reply :

I have experienced refusals in clear water with white nanofil, refusals stopped when I put a leader on.

Re casting problems, don't run the knot through the guides, if it bothers you. With lines of about 10-15 pound test (both braid and leader) double unis will pass freely though almost any guide.

If one is getting numerous failures of double unis they are not tying it right.

The lighter the braid, the murkier the water, the less reason to use a leader for stealth.

I'll bet there is not a single participant in this line of posts who will change his mind from what he is now doing. Rightfully so. If it works, keep it.

4637

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