Sensitivity - Line Size 2025
Todd2 reply :
I see a lot of posts comparing lines, but what if we are talking about the same line. For example, which would transmit pick ups better Line A 10 lb or Line A 15 lb?
For me, it seems there would be more line movement (for us line watchers) with 10 lb when a Bass sucks in the lure, due to less drag...maybe not, but thicker line might carry vibrations better...not sure.
Yeah, just curious. Plus I'm waiting on two jobs to finish at work...lol
Raul reply :
Line size ---> no difference
Line composition ----> all the difference in the world
From less to more sensitivity.
1.- Nylon
2.- Copolymer ( nylon + FC )
3.- FC
4.- Braided
NYBasser reply :
On 8/5/2016 at 2:46 AM, Raul said:Line size ---> no difference
Line composition ----> all the difference in the world
From less to more sensitivity.
1.- Nylon
2.- Copolymer ( nylon + FC )
3.- FC
4.- Braided
I would have to disagree. There is a negligible difference when it comes to line size. The thinner/lighter the line, the more sensitivity. For example, let's compare 8lb mono with 50 lb mono. There is a world of difference in the sensitivity of the two.
J Francho reply :
Interesting question. I don't think I use a big enough difference in diameters to say. I generally stick to 6, 10, 12, 15 for fluoro.And each certainly is not always on the same blank. I bet in the extreme case NYBasser details, there might be something to it.
everythingthatswims reply :
20lb fluorocarbon is very sensitive, I use it for jigs. I tend to prefer fluoro over copoly or mono unless I'm fishing topwater because it is sensitive and doesn't stretch much. All of my spinning rods are 10lb braid with an 8 to 12lb fluoro leader, also because of sensitivity. People who fish straight fluoro on spinning rods tend to do that because the line sinks meaning you don't have a bow in your line that you would have with a line that floats.
Todd2 reply :
Thanks....sounds like the difference would be trivial at best between 10 and 15 lb.
WRB reply :
Anglers concept of line sensitivity has intrigued me with all the hype FC line gets in this regard.
1. Do you think slack line can transmit vibrations through the water to your rod?
2. Does tight line like a guitar string transmit vibrations underwater?
3. Do you feel line movement or line vibrations?
Tom
Molay1292 reply :
On 8/5/2016 at 6:46 AM, WRB said:Anglers concept of line sensitivity has intrigued me with all the hype FC line gets in this regard.
1. Do you think slack line can transmit vibrations through the water to your rod?
2. Does tight line like a guitar string transmit vibrations underwater?
3. Do you feel line movement or line vibrations?
Tom
I don't have answers but I do have some thoughts.
vibrations move much faster through water than they do through air
I think a guitar string produces vibration underwater, the same as a speaker or your voice.
Vibration and movement are similar if not the same, vibration is an oscillating movement around a equilibrium.
Water quality has a large impact on vibration (sound)
WRB reply :
Vibration doesn't move faster in water sound does. Water being 4 times more dense than air dampens line vibration. Sound waves move fastest through a solid like steel, no oscillations in a solid.
Tom
Todd2 reply :
Not sure where you are going Tom... certainly the tighter the line, regardless of line type, the greater the sensation felt at the rod.
Sensitivity is probably a bad choice of words, I often see a line twitch and feel nothing, especially on semi slack line. Those little twitches are often the bigger fish. Btw, I'm strictly a mono user.
papajoe222 reply :
Two identical lines, different diameters? The thinner line would be more sensitive, I would think. putting the rod blank and line movement that's observed aside and focusing strictly on felt vibrations. Using identical wood dowels, the 1/4in. is much more sensitive than the 1/2in. given the same stimulus. Given WRB's statement about water's density dampening of vibrations, the thicker line would move more water and therefore dampen the felt vibration.
WRB reply :
The only thing you feel with any line is line movement and if the line has some slack between the lure you have no sensatation of line movement other than visual or lack of lure contact. Vibrations sin waves do not travel up loose line, the water dampens the movement. Controlled slack being you keep enough tension on the line to feel the lure weight or sinker/jig weight resistance, then you will feel line movements like vibrations from a crankbait or fish.
FC has less drag in the water or less belly of loose line than monofilament giving better lure contact with bottom bumping lures. Braid must be taunt with little no slack because it's very limp line, however small diameter with low drag resistance giving ease of detecting line movement, unless there is slack line. Braid floats giving you a visual strike indicator with line movement on slack line, same with mono.
To answer the question smaller diameter line has less coeffient of water drag giving you better feed back of line movement.
Tom
hawgenvy reply :
You guys are all being unscientific about this. To answer the question you'd have to first agree what exactly you mean by sensitivity, that is, figure out how you would meaningfully define sensitivity. Then devise a way to measure line sensitivity objectively. Then test enough line diameters to get meaningful data, and, voila, you'd have an answer to the question.
Or, you could also sink an old pick up truck 30 feet down in a muddy lake, get a bunch of rednecks in bass boats to "fish"over it using hookless jig heads, and the first guy to figure out the year, make, and model has the most sensitive line.
Catt reply :
Give y'all a scientific answer...aint got one!
I know from my personal experience when I drop from 15# Big Game to 12# Big Game there is what I perceive to be a slight increase in "sensitivity".
The disadvantage with 12# is I find I have more breakoffs which is completely unacceptable!
" Sensitivity "
Who is holding the rod?
How well is the brain at interpreting what's being felt!
WRB reply :
....and if the angler is focused on what is being sent!
J Francho reply :
Sound is vibration.
Some basic science: http://www.sciencekidsathome.com/science_topics/what_is_sound.html
WIGuide reply :
On 8/5/2016 at 11:37 PM, J Francho said:Sound is vibration.
Some basic science: http://www.sciencekidsathome.com/science_topics/what_is_sound.html
^beat me to it
Turtle135 reply :
On 8/5/2016 at 7:38 PM, Catt said:The disadvantage with 12# is I find I have more breakoffs which is completely unacceptable!
Not to derail the topic but I completely agree with this. I would rather not even get the bite than to break a bass off.
Red Bear reply :
this thread is a classic example of someone overthinking things and making fishing way more complicated than it has to be. just use what line size you feel confident using.
and i dont care what kind of line you use or if you use a $20 rod or a $5000 dollar, what Catt says below is absolutely true...sensitivity is different for everyone as its related to the sense of feeling, just like every one doesnt have the same eye sight or hearing or sense of smell etc...
On 8/5/2016 at 7:38 PM, Catt said:" Sensitivity "
Who is holding the rod?
How well is the brain at interpreting what's being felt!
Todd2 reply :
On 8/6/2016 at 12:26 AM, Red Bear said:this thread is a classic example of someone overthinking things and making fishing way more complicated than it has to be.
This reply is a classic example of someone replying with nothing to add to the discussion.
The traffic on this site would come to a halt if we didn't overthink things....lol
J Francho reply :
I am sensitive to oversimplification, lol.
Turkey sandwich reply :
On 8/5/2016 at 1:25 PM, hawgenvy said:You guys are all being unscientific about this. To answer the question you'd have to first agree what exactly you mean by sensitivity, that is, figure out how you would meaningfully define sensitivity. Then devise a way to measure line sensitivity objectively. Then test enough line diameters to get meaningful data, and, voila, you'd have an answer to the question.
Or, you could also sink an old pick up truck 30 feet down in a muddy lake, get a bunch of rednecks in bass boats to "fish"over it using hookless jig heads, and the first guy to figure out the year, make, and model has the most sensitive line.
Pffft science! This is why someone needs to resurrect the big foot thread.
J Francho reply :
But seriously....if you don't like the discussion, move on.
It isn't necessary to point out your negative opinion of the question.
We get it - some like this stuff, some don't.
Turkey sandwich reply :
It isn't so much that I don't like the question (I actually find it pretty interesting and have been following it and learning) as much as scientific debate brings back fond memories of the Sasquatch thread.
J Francho reply :
The comment wasn't aimed at you - it just came after yours.
It was a general statement.
.ghoti. reply :
One of my first thoughts when people speak of vibration transmission is; when was the last time you felt a fish take a bait, and then sit there and vibrate?
Red Bear reply :
On 8/6/2016 at 1:47 AM, Todd2 said:This reply is a classic example of someone replying with nothing to add to the discussion.
The traffic on this site would come to a halt if we didn't overthink things....lol
I added to the discussion, your quote deleted over half of my post to start with. I gave my opinion, no one said you had to like it or agree with it.
but since you want more clarification, if the bass sucks in your bait your line is going to move the same distance into the fishes mouth in all likelihood and i dont think the line size is going to matter one bit at all. Why do i say this? because there are times where bass suck your lures in and spit them back out and you dont even know it and never will know it, didnt feel it, didnt see your line move, never knew a bass was there or had a clue you got a bite. and how do i know that? ever watch hook n look? or Zonas show with the cone thing used to peer underwater? the guy with the underwater view sees the fish eat the anglers bait and is yelling to "set the hook, set the hook, he's got it" and the guy with the rod is standing there doing nothing because he never felt the bite or saw his line move...
J Francho reply :
That's apples and oranges. Throw out all the variables, about whose hands are holding the rod, what kind of bite it is, etc, and I think the simple question is: does line transmit vibration better as diameter increases?
I honestly don't know. I'm not sure you could tell.
timsford reply :
I don't know about the science of it but I do know that I can feel slack line bites with fluorocarbon or mono that I can't feel with braid
Molay1292 reply :
On 8/5/2016 at 9:16 AM, WRB said:Vibration doesn't move faster in water sound does. Water being 4 times more dense than air dampens line vibration. Sound waves move fastest through a solid like steel, no oscillations in a solid.
Tom
Sound is vibration through matter, so we are essentially saying the same thing.
In water, the particles are much closer together, and they can quickly transmit vibration energy from one particle to the next. This means that the sound wavetravels over four times faster than it would in air, but it takes a lot of energy to start the vibration.May 10, 2011
The highlights were not added by me, they were part of the article.
hawgenvy reply :
I think line sensitivity means two basic things: the ability to detect fish bites, and the ability to resolve bottom contour. In both cases braided line is theoretically better because it's lack of stretch means more information is transmitted up the line. For example, if a fish pulls a hook an inch directly away, a zero stretch line will also move a full inch at the rod tip. Not so for stretchy polymer lines.
Thinness would also matter because thin line is deflected less by laterally acting water movement against the line, because thin line has less surface area. A bowed line bows when the hooked fish moves laterally, or if there is a current. A bowed line cannot as directly transmit information to the rod. Here again braid wins because it has less diameter per breaking strength so it bows less. Really, of course, this is all theoretical. You'd have to do scientific testing and data analysis to know if these are valid hypotheses. Or go out yourself and see what works for you -- just don't write articles about it unless you have a statistician on board.
Team9nine reply :
Berkley scientist Paul Johnson has written extensively about all facets of line mechanics. A couple guys have already picked up on this, but if the only thing being considered is line diameter (using nylon mono), the thinner line will be the more sensitive when actually fished in water. Distance from the angler also plays a part. At 20' away, about flipping distance, most every bite will be felt (a bite being defined as a fish sitting still and sucking in a bait, moving the line/bait ~6" or so). At 40', an angler only picks up about half the actual number of bites. At 80', you will rarely be able to detect a simple bite. The bait/line has to be moved over 2' in order to be detected. There are other interesting factors though including line coil, stiffness, and tension among others.
-T9
Mosster47 reply :
Here is my take. Try them all, pick the one you like the best and stick with it. This applies to rods as well. If you find one you like, don't get rid of it.
I have buddies that buy new rods every year, go from mono to FC, you braid, and whatever else is hot on the market.
Use this scenario: Who is going to detect a bite better, a guy that has made 5,000 casts with the same rod and line, or a guy that has made 1,000 casts on five different rods and line combos?
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