rod handle design question? 2024
snapper G reply :
what is the point of rond handle designs like this:
http://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10151_-1_10001_97964_100002006_100000000_100002000_100-2-6
as aposed to ones like this:
http://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10151_-1_10001_58458_100002006_100000000_100002000_100-2-6
which do you prefer?
:-? :-? :-?
J Francho reply :
Weight considerations, balance, and cosmetics.
dodgeguy reply :
if anything it throws the balance out towards the tip which is a bad thing.
Certified Public Angler reply :
The theory is that having less cork results in more sensitivity from the blank.
dodgeguy reply :
which is a bunch of garbage.it would make it tip heavy which would overide any theoretical increase.sensitivity is affected more by what line you have than the amount of cork on your handle.i do understand some people think it looks nice.
J Francho reply :
Balance would depend on the ENTIRE package - rod reel and line together. I own several split grip, solid grip rods and ones with no fore grips and split and solid rear grips, and none of them are garbage. Balance along with the blank has a lot to do with sensitivity.
dodgeguy reply :
2 identical rods 1 with split rear grip and 1 without you will not feel more sensitivity with a split grip.it will be more tip heavy then the 1 with a full grip.
J Francho reply :
True, but your only comparing two rods. When is the last time you caught a fish on just a rod? It up to you, the buyer to test the rod with the reel and line you intend to use to see if its balanced or not. The rod manufacturer may have already positioned the reel seat with balance in mind, or the split grip solves a balance issue on a particularly long handled rod, like a flipping stick.
I'm not going to argue you with you here, since you are a TV star and obviously know more than me, but I will stand by my original statement that split rear grips are about weight, balance and cosmetics. On a entry level rod, it is probably about cosmetics, and there might be balance issues - but that is always going to be a problem with crappy gear. On a high end piece of gear, its going to be about functionality. On a custom rod, its going to be about whatever the customer wants. Don't agree? Ask a professional rod builder.
dodgeguy reply :
your arguement makes no sense and goes against the laws of balance.btw,the tv star comment was uncalled for and rude.
J Francho reply :
You must be right, I'm sorry. I'll not worry about balance and weight anymore when selecting rods.
dodgeguy reply :
QuoteYou must be right, I'm sorry. I'll not worry about balance and weight anymore when selecting rods.
didn't say you shoudn't think about it.reel mech makes rods and has an article on how he balances them .he adds weight to the butt end he doesn't remove it.these are custom made rods by someone who knows a thing or two about rods and reels.
J Francho reply :
You made a wholesale statement that split grip rods are tip heavy. This not 100% true. If you have to add significant weight to the butt end of a rod, either some compromise was made with regards to seat placement, guide selection, reel choice or grip material. Adding weight to the butt end to balance the rod should be an exercise in fine tuning, not correction.
dodgeguy reply :
every baitcast rod is tip heavy that i have ever picked up even custom rods and g loomis rods not just split grips.i'm not saying it feels like 10 pounds but if you use the center of the reel seat as the balance point (because most guys palm the reel)the rods will always dip to the tip on a balance beam.how much weight is needed varies but they are all tip heavy.removing weight from behind the balance point will make this worse.that's why the fat guy on the see saw prevents the skinny guy from coming down.btw,if you balance to the center of the reel seat the rod balances with any reel.
AnthonyRSS reply :
The 0.2oz of cork that is removed from 6" behind the reel seat kills the rod? Please....
dodgeguy reply :
QuoteThe 0.2oz of cork that is removed from 6" behind the reel seat kills the rod? Please....
didn't say that.i said it doesn't help balance like some people think.it looks nice but does nothing for balance.if guys like it then that's fine too but don't think it makes your rod more balanced because that's dead wrong.i would buy one and then balance it.
J Francho reply :
Only true if the reel itself balances in the center of the foot, which is not always the case.Quotebtw,if you balance to the center of the reel seat the rod balances with any reel.
snapper G reply :
QuoteQuoteYou must be right, I'm sorry. I'll not worry about balance and weight anymore when selecting rods.didn't say you shoudn't think about it.reel mech makes rods and has an article on how he balances them .he adds weight to the butt end he doesn't remove it.these are custom made rods by someone who knows a thing or two about rods and reels.
Pleaes stop bikering over this!
mhr650 reply :
Every rod I build gets a split grip. I find the shape of the grip tapering down behind the reel seat to be more comfortable. Whether the straight grip or split grip is more comfortable is debatable, what is not debatable is the fact that these days high quality cork costs $5.00 + per inch, if you can get it.
snapper G reply :
QuoteQuoteThe 0.2oz of cork that is removed from 6" behind the reel seat kills the rod? Please....didn't say that.i said it doesn't help balance like some people think.it looks nice but does nothing for balance.if guys like it then that's fine too but don't think it makes your rod more balanced because that's dead wrong.i would buy one and then balance it.
If the heavier tip is a bad thing, than don't you think the manufactures would add some kind a weigh to the butt of the rod?
dodgeguy reply :
QuoteQuoteQuoteThe 0.2oz of cork that is removed from 6" behind the reel seat kills the rod? Please....didn't say that.i said it doesn't help balance like some people think.it looks nice but does nothing for balance.if guys like it then that's fine too but don't think it makes your rod more balanced because that's dead wrong.i would buy one and then balance it.
If the heavier tip is a bad thing, than don't you think the manufactures would add some kind a weigh to the butt of the rod?
no,because not every one likes a balanced rod with a weight in the butt.some manufacturers give you the option.the high end carrot stick has that option.some cabela's rods have that option as do some bps rods.
J Francho reply :
QuoteQuoteQuoteThe 0.2oz of cork that is removed from 6" behind the reel seat kills the rod? Please....didn't say that.i said it doesn't help balance like some people think.it looks nice but does nothing for balance.if guys like it then that's fine too but don't think it makes your rod more balanced because that's dead wrong.i would buy one and then balance it.
If the heavier tip is a bad thing, than don't you think the manufactures would add some kind a weigh to the butt of the rod?
They cannot possibly know what reel you intend to put on the rod. High end gear, like a Steez rod and Steez reel are designed as a balanced system. Otherwise, you can use the balancer kits available. Personally, I try to find a rod and reel combo that balances out naturally, rather than add weight to the entire setup. For example, my 6'6" All Stars work very well with with my Daiwa Capricorns and TD-X reels. Yet the same rod with a Zillion Anniversary Reel on that same rod fished terribly. The reason? The Zillion was too light, by about 2 oz. causing a very butt heavy rod. I like them a little heavier in the handle for my fishing, but this was bad. It was also odd putting that glitzy, expensive reel on a $100 rod, but I've used wackier mongrel rigs, LOL.
dodgeguy reply :
i've picked up steez combos and they are very light.at the same time they are tip heavy and i would balance them also.if you use the middle of the reel seat as the balance point then reel weight has no effect on balance because it sits right on top of the balance point.
.RM. reply :
Greets all.....Quotereel mech makes rods and has an article on how he balances them .he adds weight to the butt end he doesn't remove it.these are custom made rods by someone who knows a thing or two about rods and reels.
Let me clarify some things here. My article is on balancing older rods with full length rear grips and with the poly butt caps on them.
I DO NOT use lead to balance any custom builds that I do.
I use the reel and seat position, and the use of BURL cork (more density) to help in balancing a rod. My rods don't weigh anymore than 3.5 to 4.5oz finished, you cannot add lead to the rod and achieve this weight.
I can also add that the majority of the builds I have done in the last 15+ years have had tip heavy request on them. Ask the tournament anglers that request that balance and it helps with accuracy..
To try and answer the original question "what is the point of rod handle designs like this"..
It is less weight in the finished build.
If you were to measure the distance from the end of the butt on both rods you would find that the reel seat is located in the same position on both rods. So this takes balance out of the equation, and becomes a weight savings move.
You could still balance the rods more to the back of the rod buy adding the balance kit or using a heavier reel. All of this is personal preference in what the anglers feel from the rod/reel combo when held.
Hope this helps some..
Tight Lines All!!!
snapper G reply :
QuoteGreets all.....Quotereel mech makes rods and has an article on how he balances them .he adds weight to the butt end he doesn't remove it.these are custom made rods by someone who knows a thing or two about rods and reels.Let me clarify some things here. My article is on balancing older rods with full length rear grips and with the poly butt caps on them.
I DO NOT use lead to balance any custom builds that I do.
I use the reel and seat position, and the use of BURL cork (more density) to help in balancing a rod. My rods don't weigh anymore than 3.5 to 4.5oz finished, you cannot add lead to the rod and achieve this weight.
I can also add that the majority of the builds I have done in the last 15+ years have had tip heavy request on them. Ask the tournament anglers that request that balance and it helps with accuracy..
To try and answer the original question "what is the point of rod handle designs like this"..
It is less weight in the finished build.
If you were to measure the distance from the end of the butt on both rods you would find that the reel seat is located in the same position on both rods. So this takes balance out of the equation, and becomes a weight savings move.
You could still balance the rods more to the back of the rod buy adding the balance kit or using a heavier reel. All of this is personal preference in what the anglers feel from the rod/reel combo when held.
Hope this helps some..
Tight Lines All!!!
Thank you!! Just the answer i have been looing for!
dodgeguy reply :
QuoteGreets all.....Quotereel mech makes rods and has an article on how he balances them .he adds weight to the butt end he doesn't remove it.these are custom made rods by someone who knows a thing or two about rods and reels.Let me clarify some things here. My article is on balancing older rods with full length rear grips and with the poly butt caps on them.
I DO NOT use lead to balance any custom builds that I do.
I use the reel and seat position, and the use of BURL cork (more density) to help in balancing a rod. My rods don't weigh anymore than 3.5 to 4.5oz finished, you cannot add lead to the rod and achieve this weight.
I can also add that the majority of the builds I have done in the last 15+ years have had tip heavy request on them. Ask the tournament anglers that request that balance and it helps with accuracy..
To try and answer the original question "what is the point of rod handle designs like this"..
It is less weight in the finished build.
If you were to measure the distance from the end of the butt on both rods you would find that the reel seat is located in the same position on both rods. So this takes balance out of the equation, and becomes a weight savings move.
You could still balance the rods more to the back of the rod buy adding the balance kit or using a heavier reel. All of this is personal preference in what the anglers feel from the rod/reel combo when held.
Hope this helps some..
Tight Lines All!!!
that's what i was trying to say.and like you stated some guys like a slightly tip heavy rod.i prefer it to weigh nothing so the added weight at the back of the rod doesn't bother me where as somebody else might hate it.it just a matter of what you prefer.
MALTESE FALCON reply :
Thanks for such an informative answer Dave.
Falcon
J Francho reply :
I must be a tip heavy guy, as I prefer the balance point to be just in front of my index finger of my palming hand. I always though this was properly balanced. The exception to this would be flipping stick, as its closer to the reel center line.
dodgeguy reply :
it depends on how you hold your rod.a guy who holds behind the reel would have a balance point even furthur back than the reel center.some guys palm at the front of the reel and put the line between their fongers.some guys hold the foregrip.both of these would move the balance point foward. i have a bad elbow so i want the rod tip to be weightless.this prevents it from straining my elbow at the end of a cast because the weight doesn't keep it going.i also find my cassts are far more accurate.
J Francho reply :
I definitely do not prefer a weightless tip.
.RM. reply :
I have a couple of anglers from this forum that I build as close to a neutral balance as possible, due to arthritis in the hands or the arms/shoulders....
So like stated before it is a lot of personal preference.....
The one thing I have found is that most all of the manufacturers of rack rods, still used their standardized spacing charts for all of the components on all of their rod lines.
IE: G-Loomis® has been using the same spacing charts since the old 96% graphite days...
So what I have found (carrying around my small tape measure to different shops) is a rod with a 10" grip has the reel seat at a certain spot, and a rod with a split grip (with the spacing of a 10" grip, sits in the exact same position. So actually the manufacturer isn't really trying to balance anything (they don't have the time to do so), just trying to reduce the overall weight feel and looks of the rod/s.
In my personal opinion they are just trying to steal the thunder from all custom builders, I have been building split grips for years and the mfg's are just catching on....
Tight Lines!!!
dodgeguy reply :
"So what I have found (carrying around my small tape measure to different shops) is a rod with a 10" grip has the reel seat at a certain spot, and a rod with a split grip (with the spacing of a 10" grip, sits in the exact same position. So actually the manufacturer isn't really trying to balance anything (they don't have the time to do so), just trying to reduce the overall weight feel and looks of the rod/s."
exactly the point i was trying to make!!!
dodgeguy reply :
"I have a couple of anglers from this forum that I build as close to a neutral balance as possible, due to arthritis in the hands or the arms/shoulders...."
as i have found with my elbow it makes the difference between fishing and not fishing.
.RM. reply :
dodgeguy,
We understood, but many won't..
Tight Lines!!!
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