Help With Braid, Need A Good Knot 2025

.ghoti. reply :

Let's start this by saying I am NOT a fan of braid. But I've decided to give it a try, to solve a problem.

I recently bought a pair of rods from a BR member, mas3. Mike, if you're reading this, I am not, in any way, casting any doubt on you. I like the rods, a lot, and am completely happy with our transaction.

One of the rod is a Daiwa TD-X dropshot spinning rod. I've been wanting one of these, but had been hesitant to pull the trigger because of the size of the guides. I got such a great price from Mike, that I just had to go for it.

The first guide up from the reel is way too small. I haven't measured it, but it's not much more than half the size of the first guide on all my other spinning rods.

My first outing with the rod was with a Supreme XT, size 30, spooled with #8 XL; my normal line for a spinning reel. I had another spinning rod with me, a Steez ML with the same reel and line. I tied on identical baits. The TD-X rod would cast about half as far as the Steez. Switched reels, and got the same results.

The next trial was using a Supreme XT, size 25, spooled with #6 XL, with a second spool filled with #4. Using identical baits, the Steez with #8 would out cast the TD-X with both #6 and #4, with #4 being a bit better.

Was Talking to Long Mike, planning a fishing trip, and told him about my frustration with the rod. Don't get me wrong; this is a great rod. Excellent blank, very crisp and sensitive, nice tip, more backbone than I expected, and arguably the best reel seat / grip on a spinning rod today. Doesn't matter how you hold it; your hands never come in contact with reel seat threads.

Mike said, "I hate to say this, knowing how you feel about it, but why don't you try some braid". I told him it would be a cold day in the Sahara when I spooled up a reel with braid, so I bought some, spooled it up, and tried it out. Seagaur Kanzen braid, 10lb test, 0.0054" diameter. This stuff looks like frog hair.

Casting problem solved. Got excellent distance from some very light weight baits. Got a couple of wind knots, but I know how to deal with that problem. My true problem now is getting a bait tied on this line securely. Was out earlier this evening, and in less than 30 minutes, I had three good bites, three hooksets, resulting in three breakoffs. First breakoff was with a palomar knot, second a SD jam knot, and third was a clinch knot.

So, somebody teach me how to tie knot in small braid. I would like this to work out because the next step is to strip the guides from the rod and re-wrap it with properly a properly sized guide set.

rockchalk06 reply :

Shaw Grigsby knot. I use it for everything. I'll try and find the you tube video but I'm on my phone right now. It's very easy to tie. I have yet to break it using 40 pound braid. My line breaks before the knot does.

It's one of the knots that won't slip out. The harder you pull the tighter it gets.

SirSnookalot reply :

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Mike said, "I hate to say this, knowing how you feel about it, but why don't you try some braid". I told him it would be a cold day in the Sahara

It actually does get cold in the Sahara at night.

I own both those reels each have 10# braid. IMO the windknots were a result of the first guide being too small and casting too hard, new guide and ease it up.............problem solved.

Breakoffs, that's interesting, how big were the fish? Only 4 things come to mind, poorly tied knot, wrong knot, bad line, drag to tight. Breakoffs on hookset or lifting 5# fish out of the water?

My knots do not break using 10# braid and catching crevalles over 10#. I can't comment on your line as I've never used it, my knot is an improved clinch using PP.

Considering the fact you are an experienced fisherman, I'd say the line is crap.

John G reply :

Have you tried a Uni Knot?

wngan9447 reply :

Double palomar. Just loop it twice before wrapping it around the hook. I wet the knot out of habit. Pulled tight together with tag and main line.

It was the first knot I learned how to tie. I just do it that way because it hasn't broke on me yet.

John G reply :

On 9/8/2013 at 8:02 PM, wngan9447 said:
It was the first knot I learned how to tie. I just do it that way because it hasn't broke on me yet.

Same here with the Uni Knot. It's the first good knot that I learned how to tie. It's very easy to tie too. Something tell me that ghoti already knows how to tie a Uni Knot.

Grizzn N Bassin reply :

I use the knot shaw grigsby showed in a YouTube vid... look up shaw grigsby on YouTube . That knot just keeps getting stronger and stronger! And its easy very easy

dodgeguy reply :

tie a palomar and crazy glue it.it will never slip.then switch to suffix 832.

Hogsticker reply :

An improved clinch knot will not break. However rather than wrapping the standard 8-10 times like with mono, I wrap it 12-15 times with thin diameter braid. I've also read more than a handful of threads regarding breakage issues and knot strength with Kanzen. I understand braid isn't for some folks, but if you're forced to use it try some Performance braid.

derekxec reply :

i use a palomar or an improved clinch and burn the tag end...also the guide thats closest to the reel should be half the diameter of the spool on the reel to be a good match(unless you are using MW system) so some reels that match will cast further than others that dont

SirSnookalot reply :

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An improved clinch knot will not break.

^Without any doubt.^ I use 8 & 2 wraps for 10,15 and 20# braids. I take one more step when I'm targeting fish like permit or tarpon and that's a second wrap before I cinch it down. Other knots will work equally as well. Additionally I always use a leader with a double wrap loopknot to the lure, another knot that won't fail. Mr. Ghotti is an experienced fisherman, he knows how to tie a knot and set the drag, and the knots that he tried should have worked fine. Leaves the line as the problem, but I would make that second wrap on the improved clinch before I respool, it may just work out fine.

Singeing the tag is a great idea, I always do because I don't cut braid I burn it.

.ghoti. reply :

Sir Snook, of the four problems you describe I can state with certainty only one is not the problem. The drag was set at 2.5 pounds. It could easily be a poorly tied knot, or the wrong knot,or the wrong line. The breakoffs were all on the hook set. No idea what size two of the fish were. The middle fish came straight up out of the water almost immediately, with my worm hanging from his mouth. Looked to be a 4, maybe 3 1/2.

I couldn't tell, looking at line end of the line if the knot broke or slipped, or if the line broke above the knot. It was just starting to get dark, and this old man was having a hard time seeing this very small line well enough to tell what happened. I took the rod inside when I got home, and still could not tell where it broke.

I didn't use a particularly hard hookset. How hard can you be with a ML spinning rod? I didn't try a uni knot or double palomar. I know how to tie those, and will do so next trip out. Never tied a grigsby knot, but I'll look it up and give it a shot as well.

I just wondering if the size of the line is the problem. I am an experienced fisherman, but not an experienced knot tier with braid, or with line this skinny. The smallest line I use on a regular basis is #6 mono. I use #4 when I go trout fishing three or four times a year, and have had no problems with knots or line, but that line is 0.008" vs 0.0054" braid. That's nearly 50% bigger.

I picked Kanzen because of a thread from earlier this year, in which several pro fishermen chimed in. The responses from them, and from some BR members I hold in respect, led me to try this line first. Lots of very positive comments about casting and knot strength.

I will try the knot suggestions presented here. Might try some 20lb test braid just to see if my knot skills are not up to the task with this frog hair. Probably won't be trying many different brands of braid. I'm not too willing to spend much on experimenting with something I really don't like in the first place. I'll stick with braid on this combo for the remainder of the season, but at his point I'm leaning towards wrapping on a new guide set over the winter. Been wanting to try out Microwave guides. This may be the right time to do just that.

Thanks for the assistance gentlemen.

Diggy reply :

I love the trilene knot, saves tons of tag end in comparison to when I used the palomar and its much easier to tie IMO

but for Dropshotting I use the palomar and use an extended tag to go thru the eyelet to attach the weight to (using fluro as a leader) attached with an alberto knot

new2BC4bass reply :

I'm a fan of the Uni Knot, but am well aware there are plenty of other knots that will work.

My reason for posting is in regard to the eyes. I picked up a 6'6" ML Cabela's spinning rod with micro guides. Mounted a used Supreme 6735XT I had purchased last year. I noticed the spool wasn't nearly as full as I normally fill a spool, but figured, "Hey, seller was obviously using it with no problem." It had come with braid. First cast I literally ducked from the racket it made. More casts resulted in me not ducking, but abysmal distance. A good tobacco chewer could spit as far.

Later at home I realized just how low the line was. Finished filling with 12# Supercast and tried again. Much quieter, better distance, but still not what I expected. Tried a Shimano Stradic 2500 MgFB with what looks like 8# mono with similar results. Tried a Daiwa SS1300 Tournament with what appears to be 6# mono. Still noisier than I like, and still short of what I feel I should be getting in distance. I grew up with spinning reels, and know what I can do with one.

Took the rod back to Cabela's and traded it for the same rod except with standard eyes. Well, what they call standard, but still much smaller than I am use to seeing on spinning rods. No more noise on cast. Distance improve, but still short of expectations. I feel the very small guides are the culprit. I have micro guides on 2 or 3 baitcasting rods, but don't feel they hurt casting distance at all with this type of reel.

aquaholic reply :

I think it gets cold in the sahara practically every night.

SirSnookalot reply :

Mr. Ghotti, I have 100% confidence that you are not the problem, no doubt you will figure it out.

Crestliner2008 reply :

Another vote for the Trilene knot. I can tie it in my sleep! LOL! Any break-offs have usually occured above the know, so I have a great deal of confidence in it. Been using it for over 30 years.

VolFan reply :

Are there rocks around? Braid + rocks = what's happening to you, especially light braids. Also, depending on the rod you have, some of these drop shot rods aren't so much made for casting and retrieving as much as short casts for fairly vertical presentations and line management. You could try a 1500 size reel, but i still doubt you're going to get epic distance out of it, no matter the line.

Dwight Hottle reply :

Obviously you are knot the problem. And the fact that you tied three different knots indicates you are knot the problem. The problem lies with the line choice 10lb Kanzen. I have experienced some problems with light weight Kanzen & Samurai in 10 & 20 lbs test. No problem with the same lines in 40 or 50lb test. The lower pound test seems to have low strength from shock. I have never had that problem with suffix performance braid or 832 which I use regularly in 10lb test for smallies. I'm not badmouthing any manufacture just stating my experience. I always use the palomar knot with light braid.

.ghoti. reply :

On 9/9/2013 at 9:21 PM, Dwight Hottle said:
Obviously you are knot the problem. And the fact that you tied three different knots indicates you are knot the problem. The problem lies with the line choice 10lb Kanzen. I have experienced some problems with light weight Kanzen & Samurai in 10 & 20 lbs test. No problem with the same lines in 40 or 50lb test. The lower pound test seems to have low strength from shock. I have never had that problem with suffix performance braid or 832 which I use regularly in 10lb test for smallies. I'm not badmouthing any manufacture just stating my experience. I always use the palomar knot with light braid.

Went out again last night and broke off twice more, on the hookset. This time with a uni knot and a trilene knot. I'm having a hard time believing that every knot I tied, using this line, broke. So, when I got home I took some line from the filler spool and experimented. On a slow gentle pull the line was quite strong. I'm guessing it broke at about 15 pounds. That's a guess; I did not use a scale. That was not the point. If I jerk it quickly, it broke at a lot less force. And, the breaks looked exactly like the breaks I experienced while fishing. Dwight has hit the nail on the head. This line, in this size, has little or no shock strength. Time to execute Plan B. (that means formulate Plan C)

Capt.Bob reply :

I believe Dwight is right, that the line type is you problem ghoti, it is the brand you chose. I am sure you are like I was with not just the Kanzen but Fireline Braid, and Power Pro and there were a couple more that were that same exact way for me. I got wore out hearing about the knot I needed, I am sure if you try Sufix 832 like Dwight said, your problems will be over, why these other braids cut themselves is beyond me, and have poor abrasion resistance, and knots slip, but 832 Sufix is the only braid I have found that I don't have these problem's with! I like the Palomar improved Trylene I usually double the line for extra cushion, and unless I am river fishing for big cat's, I use a mono leader for everything else, or Fluoro, at least one pound test lighter than the braid, and join them with an improved Blood Knot, never had another problem when I went with 832.

You might PM Roadwarior, he liked 832, but said he preferred Kanzen??? Maybe he knows something we missed, but I am sticking to 832.

new2BC4bass reply :

I've got 40# Sufix Performance on an STX-L. Been using it 4 years, but admittedly I fish way less than you guys. I have 30# Fireline on a spinning reel and MH rod. Weight chosen (but not brand) after recommendations from Roadwarrior and a few others on here. I have straightened out a jig hook without breaking the line. However, that was a steady pull. I have snapped off a jig with this line when the line wrapped around the end of the rod. It is my understanding this is typical with any braid. Don't think I need worry about breaking the line on a hookset with my weak sets.

MarkH024 reply :

I'm an 832 guy as well, but I do use PowerPro. I tie palomar with both and have never had issues with breaking on hooksets.

dodgeguy reply :

On 9/9/2013 at 11:58 PM, Capt.Bob said:

I believe Dwight is right, that the line type is you problem ghoti, it is the brand you chose. I am sure you are like I was with not just the Kanzen but Fireline Braid, and Power Pro and there were a couple more that were that same exact way for me. I got wore out hearing about the knot I needed, I am sure if you try Sufix 832 like Dwight said, your problems will be over, why these other braids cut themselves is beyond me, and have poor abrasion resistance, and knots slip, but 832 Sufix is the only braid I have found that I don't have these problem's with! I like the Palomar improved Trylene I usually double the line for extra cushion, and unless I am river fishing for big cat's, I use a mono leader for everything else, or Fluoro, at least one pound test lighter than the braid, and join them with an improved Blood Knot, never had another problem when I went with 832.

You might PM Roadwarior, he liked 832, but said he preferred Kanzen??? Maybe he knows something we missed, but I am sticking to 832.

you are so correct !!! suffix 832 all the way.

VolFan reply :

Dodge guy - where's your 832 pic? You can't dodgeguy pimp it without the pic!

Dwight Hottle reply :

He just changed his avatar back to let everyone know he is a real person. :laugh5:

.ghoti. reply :

On 9/9/2013 at 8:49 AM, aquaholic said:
I think it gets cold in the sahara practically every night.

I didn't actually say "sahara". LOL

After some contemplation, I'm going with new guides. A spool of 832 is twenty bucks. For thirty I can get a complete set of Microwave guides. The smaller than normal guides on this rod were what kept me from buying a new one in the first place. I got such a good price from the seller I decided to give it shot, knowing the guides were probably too small.

But, how long a cast do you need to make when dropshotting? If I leave the rod as is, it will still be a nice dropshot rod. Just won't be much good for anything else.

The thing is, I really like the rod blank, grip and reel seat, action, power and sensitivity. Wrapping on a new guide set will turn a one trick pony into something much more versatile.

That's my story, and I'm stickin too it.

Thanks again folks.

einscodek reply :

I second third or fourth .. the uniknot.. never gave me problems on braid but I do give it extra loops and an extra hitch at the end.. no problems.

The Shaw Grigsby knot is also good but I use that mainly for fluoro..

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