Frogging w/o Braid? 2024
fishwizzard reply :
Hi,
Picked up a new combo (*** *** A on a Fred's Magic Stick) to use for frogging this season. I also want to use it for 5-6" paddle tails and swimbaits, large topwaters, and some light pitching/punching. My plan was to fill the stock spool with 50lb braid on it for Frogs and pitching, and buy a second spool to fill with floro/mono for the topwaters and swimbaits.
However, after a day or three of fishing with it, I am growing to hate the heavy braid. I don't like how it holds knots, don't like not being able to break off a snag, and really don't like how annoying it is to pull out loose coils or even think of picking out a backlash.
Can I get away with using something else for frogging? I never fish really heavy slop, mostly pads and duckweed.
Thanks
bigturtle reply :
depends on the size of the hooks on the frog. For smaller 1/4oz frogs, I use 14lb mono and it works perfectly fine. For bigger frogs, iv also used 14lb mono in open water and sparse cover when im too lazy to remove the mono leader. It works ok but I wouldnt do it all the time. Straight braid is preferable but if you dont want to, 20lb+ mono is perectly fine if you get one with low stretch.
Bassguytom reply :
Try 30 lb or 20 lb. braid. I don't like using heavy braid either. It feels like I am fishing with rope. Especially if you are not fishing in the slop.
new2BC4bass reply :
On 3/15/2017 at 7:51 AM, Bunnielab said:
However, after a day or three of fishing with it, I am growing to hate the heavy braid. I don't like how it holds knots, don't like not being able to break off a snag, and really don't like how annoying it is to pull out loose coils or even think of picking out a backlash.
I am surprised you are having so much trouble with braid. I prefer mono or co-polymers, but have braid on a few reels. Many people suggest using braid when learning to use a baitcaster because it is easier to pick out backlashes. I always have at least one reel with 40# braid on it when I visit Florida. Last year I also took an Alphas F that came with 30# Sufix Ghost when I bought it. Had to pull off the occasional loose coils from overruns, but never experienced what you describe. Actually I was surprised at how well the 30# braid handled. I have 55# Samurai on one rod and it handles fine as well.
Now I did pick up a used reel that had some old 65# braid on it. That stuff sailed like a kite. Was replaced after my first outing with it.
20# mono is going to be pretty hard to break. Not as bad as 50# braid obviously, but I would never try to break either without having something to wrap the line around first. You would be better off to hire a scuba diver to go unhook it for you. 
soflabasser reply :
I mostly use 30 pound test braid for frog fishing/flipping/etc and have caught several +8 pound bass fishing this way.Also use 30 pound test braid for inshore saltwater fishing for fish much stronger than any bass.
IndianaFinesse reply :
On 3/15/2017 at 7:51 AM, Bunnielab said:Can I get away with using something else besides braid for frogging? I never fish really heavy slop, mostly pads and duckweed.
Thanks
Unfortunately frog fishing is not very flexible when it comes to line choice, its heavy (30+lb.) braid or nothing. Mono and flouro are to stretchy for good hooksets with thick frog hooks, and not strong enough to pull big bass out of the pads.
What I did was buy a dirt cheap setup strictly for frogs, the whole combo only cost me $40. Sensitivity is not important for frogs, so cheap rods will catch just as many frog fish as an nrx.
fishnkamp reply :
Bunnielab you could try something like 20 pound Big Game. But before you do lets meet and do some testing. Cast a few rigs I have and see if it is the braid you picked, the reel and braid, or whatever. My wife's frog combo is an Irod spinning reel and 30 pound Power Pro braid. My rig is a Dobyns casting rod with a Tatula Type R. It is spooled with 65 pound Power Pro. Neither of these combos exhibit the same type of trouble. I also have 832 on a few combos. Lets see if you have trouble casting my stuff and I will see if you stuff gives me the same trouble. That rod is a joy to cast frogs on. So if you have no trouble with my frog combo, we can swap my reel over to you rod. If it plays better you will have a direction to head, either it is the line or line & reel combo. Of course it maybe a week or so since there is no grass anymore. LOL darn storm.
hunterPRO1 reply :
17 or 20lb stren mono.
the only time you need 50 or 65lb braid is when your in the thick stuff,
for hooksets with mono, point the rod at the fish reel untill you feel alittle pressure and swing, thats how i do it.
Bluebasser86 reply :
I use braid for everything you listed. I'd have a lot more line management issues with a heavy mono or copoly than I do with braid. 50lb isn't even really heavy braid, it's more the standard size. If you're not fishing really heavy stuff you could do as others suggested and try dropping down to 30 or 40 and see if that helps.
Catt reply :
My frog rod is an All Star Classic ASCC846CR 7' 0" Medium Heavy Fast
Reel is a Shimamo Cardiff CDF100A spoofed with 20# Berkley Big Game.
Line stretch is the biggest myth out there right now, yes mono stretches but not enough to effect your hook.
I want y'all to show me a report not done in a laboratory or someone's kitchen table & not with only 10' of line!
Show me how much stretch there is on a 25-30 yard cast with a 7' medium heavy fast rod!
It's hookset technique!
Rant over 
Bluebasser86 reply :
It's about being able to cut through weeds and/or drag large amounts of grass to me, not line stretch. I use Big Game for a lot of stuff so I know how strong it is (as well as using it for a lot of things I'm not "supposed" to because of line stretch), but it just doesn't haul fish out of weeds like braid does.
crypt reply :
On 3/15/2017 at 6:31 PM, Catt said:My frog rod is an All Star Classic ASCC846CR 7' 0" Medium Heavy Fast
Reel is a Shimamo Cardiff CDF100A spoofed with 20# Berkley Big Game.
Line stretch is the biggest myth out there right now, yes mono stretches but not enough to effect your hook.
I want y'all to show me a report not done in a laboratory or someone's kitchen table & not with only 10' of line!
Show me how much stretch there is on a 25-30 yard cast with a 7' medium heavy fast rod!
It's hookset technique!
Rant over
THIS............................
fishwizzard reply :
I am not following how moving to thinner braid will help with digging in or backlash-picking. I would be easier to break off I suppose.
I am not really going to be fishing super heavy weeds, but I do worry a little bit about pad stalks. I do have a reel or two already spooled with 12lb YZH, which is about the diameter of 20lb mono, I might give them a try and see how it goes.
BassWhole! reply :
On 3/15/2017 at 7:51 AM, Bunnielab said:Hi,
Picked up a new combo (*** *** A on a Fred's Magic Stick) to use for frogging this season. I also want to use it for 5-6" paddle tails and swimbaits, large topwaters, and some light pitching/punching. My plan was to fill the stock spool with 50lb braid on it for Frogs and pitching, and buy a second spool to fill with floro/mono for the topwaters and swimbaits.
However, after a day or three of fishing with it, I am growing to hate the heavy braid. I don't like how it holds knots, don't like not being able to break off a snag, and really don't like how annoying it is to pull out loose coils or even think of picking out a backlash.
Can I get away with using something else for frogging? I never fish really heavy slop, mostly pads and duckweed.
Thanks
It's way early for frogging, but let me know when you are ready to go, I'll get you all squared away. Yes, you can frog with 20-25lb mono, but 40-65 braid is the way to go. If your line is digging in and coming to an abrupt stop and backlashing, that's an easy fix. We can also do a little P90X for the breaking off thing. 
A5BLASTER reply :
I do a lot of frog fishing some in thick stuff some in not so thick stuff.
When I first started I was useing big game 14 pound and I did hook fish but I lost alot, now it got betterwhen I learned how to properly do a hookset, but I still lost alot of fish and broke off alot.
So I went to power pro 50# and my catch ratio went way up, stopped losing fish and the hooks were always drove throw. Never really had the backlash problems your saying you have. I didn't like the 50# it was like fishing with rope so I dropped down to the 30# pound and haven't looked back, I fish it in the thickest cover Toledo Bend has to offer and it does fine.
Dropping down to 30# should help you out but this comes with a warning, if you do drop down remember to cut and retie bout every five to ten fish, and be ready to respool often because the 30# will wear out faster then the thicker braid.
Someone may call bull on this but this is what works for me and let me restate yes I fish frogs alot, in the last month I have went throw 14 packs of ribbett frogs in two diffrent colors.
This might help you out this is how I spool my frog rod.
Put bout five spins of black electric tape on the spool, tie on the braid, spool it up to the amount you want.
Then tie on your hook, hook it to something you physically can not move, turn your drag all the way down and walk out the whole spool, then turn your drag back to max and start reeling walk slowly and let the reel pull you along, doing that will set the string straight and tight and will keep it from stripping on hookset the first few times and will help stop backlash from a lose spool.
I know it's alot to read but hope this helps sir.
fissure_man reply :
On 3/15/2017 at 6:31 PM, Catt said:My frog rod is an All Star Classic ASCC846CR 7' 0" Medium Heavy Fast
Reel is a Shimamo Cardiff CDF100A spoofed with 20# Berkley Big Game.
Line stretch is the biggest myth out there right now, yes mono stretches but not enough to effect your hook.
I want y'all to show me a report not done in a laboratory or someone's kitchen table & not with only 10' of line!
Show me how much stretch there is on a 25-30 yard cast with a 7' medium heavy fast rod!
It's hookset technique!
Rant over
Any amount of stretch affects your hooksets on some level, because it means you need to move more line to achieve the same force at the hook. Can this be compensated for with good technique? Of course.
But perfect hooksetting technique with a no-stretch line will still deliver more force during the hook set and initial pull, which IMO is an advantage when you’re trying to keep a bass from burying down in the weeds. The ‘direct connection’ of braid helps bulldoze a bass through weeds all the way to the boat, and it helps snap your lure off weeds when you get hung. The longer the cast, the more significant these differences become – testing lengths of line greater than 10 ft will show more elongation for a given force.
50 lb braid handles and casts better than 20+ lb mono, IMO. Backlashes are easier to pick out with braid if you first clamp your thumb on the spool and turn the handle a couple times to straighten out the loops, and you don’t need to worry about kinking and damaging the braid in a backlash like you do with other lines. If you have to break off 50 lb braid it’s going to be darn near impossible, but trying to snap 20+ lb Big Game is not easy either.
You can use mono for frogging, but is there any advantage? If there was ever a perfect application for braided line, frogging is it.
Mosster47 reply :
You might just have a bad batch of braid. I just stripped off some 20lb hi-vis off of a custom spinning setup I had built. I couldn't cast a 1/4oz shaky head more than 15 yards. I threw on some 15lb braid from a different spool and it casts like a dream now.
It's rare, but it does happen.
Logan S reply :
On 3/15/2017 at 9:58 PM, fissure_man said:If there was ever a perfect application for braided line, frogging is it.
Agree on this...It the only thing you'll ever get nearly unanimous agreement on during line debates .
fishwizzard reply :
I was using Suffix 832 in 50lb.
I genesis of my problems with it when I was trying to see if I could skip a jig with centrifugal brakes. The answer is a firm "nope", but the resulting backlash is what prompted this thread. I have never had any luck with braid on casting reels, from the heavy stuff to trying to use 10lb on a BFS reel. While I do like that braid doesn't kink and weaken, I have had zero luck picking out even a small backlash, without using a dull needle as a marlin spike.
I think I will respool with the rest of my braid and just get a second spool for the other lures. Fortunately spools for this reel are very inexpensive. I got this combo for bank fishing where I only carry a single rod, so I need to make it versatile enough to cover a few different presentations so if I end up miles from my car I am not locked into a single lure style. Even just running braid I should be fine with just frogging and punching, I will just have to be conservative with my casting when trying to get close to cover with the latter.
Catt reply :
20# mono, 35 yd cast, how many yards of stretch do y'all think there is?
Mono doesn't cut through grass well; yet I read "it sucks winching in a huge glob of weeds", don't sound like it cuts to well to me, my mono does that!
I fished braided Cotton, Dacron, Micron, Suture Material (Silk), Micro Dyneema®, Kevlar, & Spectra.
I can catch bass on a frog with braid or mono with no dropoff in hookup ratio.
I think it was In-Fisherman who did a study with braid, mono, copolymer, & Fluorocarbon. The study was done by 10 anglers of different statutes, 7' 6" rods, 25 yds away in 12' of water. The study was to show how much pressure was applied to the hook point on hook set.
The results showed a difference of slightly more than 1 pound to under 2 pounds.
The kicker was the 4 of the smaller anglers scored higher with all 4 lines!
It was believed flawless technique was the responsible
LBASS01 reply :
You can get away with using heavy mono or fluorocarbon, but I like braid for just about everything. Braid is much stronger, no stretch, and fish won't break it off.
MassYak85 reply :
On 3/15/2017 at 11:45 PM, Catt said:20# mono, 35 yd cast, how many yards of stretch do y'all think there is?
Mono doesn't cut through grass well; yet I read "it sucks winching in a huge glob of weeds", don't sound like it cuts to well to me, my mono does that!
I fished braided Cotton, Dacron, Micron, Suture Material (Silk), Micro Dyneema®, Kevlar, & Spectra.
I can catch bass on a frog with braid or mono with no dropoff in hookup ratio.
I think it was In-Fisherman who did a study with braid, mono, copolymer, & Fluorocarbon. The study was done by 10 anglers of different statutes, 7' 6" rods, 25 yds away in 12' of water. The study was to show how much pressure was applied to the hook point on hook set.
The results showed a difference of slightly more than 1 pound to under 2 pounds.
The kicker was the 4 of the smaller anglers scored higher with all 4 lines!
It was believed flawless technique was the responsible
If I'm bored later I can actually give you an answer. I can throw my swimbait reel ( spooled with 20lb CXX) on my frog rod and tie it to a tree, swing away, and let you all know. But even a couple feet would be a significant enough amount of stretch to opt for braid IMO.
Ideally if you wanted a fair test though you would measure the force needed to get a solid hookup with the fish, and then measure the elongation of the line when that amount of force is applied. But that will change with each fish, each frog, each hook.
Finnz922 reply :
50 or 60lb FX2, Spro 65, and a polymar knot. You shouldn't be having issues. I have never broke braid at the know frog fishing.
Catt reply :
On 3/16/2017 at 1:58 AM, MassYak85 said:If I'm bored later I can actually give you an answer. I can throw my swimbait reel ( spooled with 20lb CXX) on my frog rod and tie it to a tree, swing away, and let you all know. But even a couple feet would be a significant enough amount of stretch to opt for braid IMO.
Ideally if you wanted a fair test though you would measure the force needed to get a solid hookup with the fish, and then measure the elongation of the line when that amount of force is applied. But that will change with each fish, each frog, each hook.
Absolutely would not be realistic!
When you set hook on a bass it moves...the tree does not!
I surmise the OP may have a high catch ratio simply due to the fact he ain't frustrated with braid.
FryDog62 reply :
"I want y'all to show me a report not done in a laboratory or someone's kitchen table & not with only 10' of line!"
... well, how about 12 feet of line hung from my vaulted ceiling?
wdp reply :
On 3/15/2017 at 8:40 PM, reason said:
Love this pic of the Scum Frogs. I worked there for a while during college.
MassYak85 reply :
On 3/16/2017 at 2:45 AM, Catt said:
Absolutely would not be realistic!
When you set hook on a bass it moves...the tree does not!
I surmise the OP may have a high catch ratio simply due to the fact he ain't frustrated with braid.
True, but big fish wrapped around 1/2 inch lily pad stems don't move a whole lot either, at least not on the initial hookset. When I'm fishing from my kayak I will move more on the initial hookset sometimes, and in many cases have had to go to the fish not the other way around. That's a different situation though than if you are on the bank or a larger boat. And if you're only getting bites from 1 lbers that day then line stretch will be more negligible than a 10lber who requires much more force to move.
But yea if OP can't stand braid then by all means he should fish what he will be comfortable with so he can at least gets bites. If he finds the hookup ratio poor he can reevaluate whether he wants to try braid again.
Catt reply :
On 3/16/2017 at 3:06 AM, MassYak85 said:True, but big fish wrapped around 1/2 inch lily pad stems don't move a whole lot either, at least not on the initial hookset. When I'm fishing from my kayak I will move more on the initial hookset sometimes, and in many cases have had to go to the fish not the other way around. That's a different situation though than if you are on the bank or a larger boat. And if you're only getting bites from 1 lbers that day then line stretch will be more negligible than a 10lber who requires much more force to move.
I've caught 35 double digit bass across 5 states & everyone was caught on Big Game 15# test.
If y'all ain't moving every bass on the hookset ya may wanna reconsider how ya setting hook!
SneakyPete reply :
30lb Sunline Sniper braided for frogs
related Fishing Rods Reels Line Knots topic
most viewed Fishing Rods Reels Line Knots topic
© 2024 - fishing.qciss.net. All Rights Reserved.