Finesse Rod 2024
aavery2 reply :
We have discussed many topics about finesse fishing, but they almost always seem to migrate to a discussion about reels. I am looking for advice on a casting rod, I don't care what brand, but I do have a few requirements, it must properly load and cast a 1/8th ounce bait. I would prefer cork handle, 6'10" or longer, ML or M power and preferably a fast action. I don't want to spend more than about 200 -250 for this rod.
I have a friend that owns a tackle store and have had the opportunity to place my reel on many different rods that are rated down to 1/8th of an ounce and cast them. What I have found is that while they may be rated for 1/8 they are almost unusable at that weight.
If I can't find a production rod that meets my requirements, I am considering having a custom built.
benthinkin reply :
shimano old style im7 graphite rods. very sensitive tips lots of backbone. not the caliber of rod your looking for but definatetly a great rod
Jeff H reply :
It's not 6'10" but I think I could count on the 6'9" Avid ML/XF to throw 1/8 oz lures. I do it now with my AVC62MXF and a TD-Z. I think you should talk to DVT Mike about the 6'10" Med mod fast he built that I bought from him. I use it for light cranks but it could throw light jigs etc very well too. I think it's a Mudhole MHX blank. Loads really nice and yet has great response. It is probably very close to the Avid 6'9" MLXF I like it so much I may get another from him.
aavery2 reply :
On 9/22/2014 at 10:51 AM, benthinkin said:shimano old style im7 graphite rods. very sensitive tips lots of backbone. not the caliber of rod your looking for but definatetly a great rod
Do you have experience casting weights in the 1/8oz range with a model of this rod?
new2BC4bass reply :
No doubt hard to find, but I have a Falcon Expert 6'9" L rated down to 1/16 oz. I feel quite certain this rod will do 1/8 oz. with no problem.
S Hovanec reply :
QuoteI don't want to spend more than about 200 -250 for this rod.
QuoteIf I can't find a production rod that meets my requirements, I am considering having a custom built.
You will be hard pressed to find a custom in that price range IMO.
I don't know what to recommend other than you will never get a medium power to load well enough with 1/8oz to cast very far, spinning or casting. I think you're looking for a weak powered ML or even a Light power. Once you drop into the realm of light power, I don't think there's a production casting rod on the market rated like that.
.ghoti. reply :
Tony, I have three rods capable in that weight range, and you're not gonna like hearing about any of them.
1. Setyr 6'6" M-F The tip on this one is very soft. It's almost an XF action, and loads well with 1/8oz. Good luck finding one of these. Setyr went out of business a few years back.
2. Kistler Helium LTA, one the original series 7' ML-MF. Loads well with 1/8oz, rubberized cork split grip that I really like. Good luck again finding this one.
3. Tatula 7' ML-R Another mod-fast action good down to 1/8oz, but with a full length EVA grip. $150 MSRP. Out of my selections, the easy one to find. I really like mine. It usually has a small crankbait tied on, but I have used it for light plastics, micro jig duty, and it is easily sensitive enough for any bottom contact presentations. A ML top end with at least medium backbone.
4. St Croix 6'9" ML-XF LTB. I had one of the full cork handle versions, and, in a fit of stupidity, sold it. I took it on a White River trout trip once, and was throwing a 1/16oz bucktail jig. I don't know if the newer 6'10" version is as good at the lower end of the range.
aavery2 reply :
On 9/22/2014 at 7:41 PM, S Hovanec said:You will be hard pressed to find a custom in that price range IMO.
I don't know what to recommend other than you will never get a medium power to load well enough with 1/8oz to cast very far, spinning or casting. I think you're looking for a weak powered ML or even a Light power. Once you drop into the realm of light power, I don't think there's a production casting rod on the market rated like that.
Thanks for the information, my post is a little misleading, I know that 250 will only purchase a very minimalistic custom build, and would more that likely require more of an investment.
aavery2 reply :
On 9/22/2014 at 8:29 PM, .ghoti. said:Tony, I have three rods capable in that weight range, and you're not gonna like hearing about any of them.
1. Setyr 6'6" M-F The tip on this one is very soft. It's almost an XF action, and loads well with 1/8oz. Good luck finding one of these. Setyr went out of business a few years back.
2. Kistler Helium LTA, one the original series 7' ML-MF. Loads well with 1/8oz, rubberized cork split grip that I really like. Good luck again finding this one.
3. Tatula 7' ML-R Another mod-fast action good down to 1/8oz, but with a full length EVA grip. $150 MSRP. Out of my selections, the easy one to find. I really like mine. It usually has a small crankbait tied on, but I have used it for light plastics, micro jig duty, and it is easily sensitive enough for any bottom contact presentations. A ML top end with at least medium backbone.
4. St Croix 6'9" ML-XF LTB. I had one of the full cork handle versions, and, in a fit of stupidity, sold it. I took it on a White River trout trip once, and was throwing a 1/16oz bucktail jig. I don't know if the newer 6'10" version is as good at the lower end of the range.
Thanks for the recommendations, I have a couple of custom Fuego's that I intend to use with this rod. I like the St.Croix blank, and had thoughts that maybe it would be possible to build a casting rod on a spinning rod blank, the spinning version of the LTB blank you recommended is exactly what I am looking for with regard to power and action. and the length would be fine. I will have to try and get my hands on that Tatula rod also, I have handled a few models of this rod but not the one you recommended, I was impressed with how nice they were for the money.
Thanks again
aavery2 reply :
On 9/22/2014 at 5:43 PM, new2BC4bass said:No doubt hard to find, but I have a Falcon Expert 6'9" L rated down to 1/16 oz. I feel quite certain this rod will do 1/8 oz. with no problem.
I own many Falcon rods and really enjoy them. I had hopes for the Eakins Finesse Jig model as it and a few others are rated to 1/8th oz. but IMO do not load anywhere near well enough to be usable at this weight. I will take a look at the Expert, and have a friend that may own one, as Falcon rods are big in this part of the country.
Thank You
Delaware Valley Tackle reply :
A blank can be built in any configuration as long as the power and action serve the purpose. The St Croix blank is very nice but might push or exceed your budget in a custom build.
aavery2 reply :
On 9/22/2014 at 12:23 PM, Jeff H said:It's not 6'10" but I think I could count on the 6'9" Avid ML/XF to throw 1/8 oz lures. I do it now with my AVC62MLXF and a TD-Z. I think you should talk to DVT Mike about the 6'10" Med mod fast he built that I bought from him. I use it for light cranks but it could throw light jigs etc very well too. I think it's a Mudhole MHX blank. Loads really nice and yet has great response. It is probably very close to the Avid 6'9" MLXF I like it so much I may get another from him.
Thanks for the recommendation, the St.Croix blank is definitely one that I am considering. The ML / XF is very nice in the spinning rod version, and might be perfect for what I am trying to do.
Thank You
aavery2 reply :
On 9/22/2014 at 8:55 PM, Delaware Valley Tackle said:A blank can be built in any configuration as long as the power and action serve the purpose. The St Croix blank is very nice but might push or exceed your budget in a custom build.
What do you think a rough estimate of cost would be if a guy wanted to build on an Avid/Rage Type blank with REC Recoils and an ECS/ACS reel seat, nothing fancy with the wrapping. I would prefer cork but could live with other options.
.ghoti. reply :
I have two blanks standing by, waiting for my four week Christmas break. A St Coix spinning blank 5S70MLFG and a K2 TX683ML-C. Both to be built as bait finesse casting rods for reels I just acquired; a TD-Z I'm in the middle of tuning, and an SS SV, which I think needs no tuning at all.
The SCV is rated down to 1/8oz and the K2 down to 1/16oz. I have two of the new Alps MVT carbon fiber real seats, and two sets of Recoils. I'm going for a light as possible, minimalist build on both rods. The K2 blank weighs 1.23oz, and I'm hoping to get a rod not much over 2oz when finished. The SCV is a 1.5oz blank, so 2oz finished weight is not possible, at least for me.
Custom is probably your best route to what you want, but you're not gonna get there for 250 bucks. Unless you do it yourself, of course.
If I were you, I'd contact DVT, and see what he can do for you.
aavery2 reply :
On 9/22/2014 at 9:11 PM, .ghoti. said:I have two blanks standing by, waiting for my four week Christmas break. A St Coix spinning blank 5S70MLFG and a K2 TX683ML-C. Both to be built as bait finesse casting rods for reels I just acquired; a TD-Z I'm in the middle of tuning, and an SS SV, which I think needs no tuning at all.
The SCV is rated down to 1/8oz and the K2 down to 1/16oz. I have two of the new Alps MVT carbon fiber real seats, and two sets of Recoils. I'm going for a light as possible, minimalist build on both rods. The K2 blank weighs 1.23oz, and I'm hoping to get a rod not much over 2oz when finished. The SCV is a 1.5oz blank, so 2oz finished weight is not possible, at least for me.
Custom is probably your best route to what you want, but you're not gonna get there for 250 bucks. Unless you do it yourself, of course.
If I were you, I'd contact DVT, and see what he can do for you.
Sounds like a couple of nice builds, I will be looking for pictures of the finished product. I would love to hear your review of the Alps reel seat as well. I have had some communication with MIke, and I agree that more than likely to get what I want is going to require a custom build and more money. While I am good mechanically I do not have an artistic bone in my body, so rod building is something that I have not tried.
Cgrinder reply :
The *** Aussie model 6'10" ML can probably do what you need. I know certain that it launches a 1/8 tungsten + finesse worm. I could try throwing a bare 1/8 jig head or if you could say exactly what you wanted to throw I could try to test it for you.
S Hovanec reply :
I'd say the Avid might work for you. The 3S69MLXF lower range is 1/8oz and retails for $100.
aavery2 reply :
The reel seat on the *** rods is not comfortable for me to use. I have large hands and it tends to pinch my fingers on the trigger. Even with that said if it casted well it might be something that I would consider, I could always make modification to the trigger to make it work for me. See if you can cast a 1/8th oz road runner on it, that has kind of been what I have tested with.
aavery2 reply :
On 9/22/2014 at 9:59 PM, S Hovanec said:I'd say the Avid might work for you. The 3S69MLXF lower range is 1/8oz and retails for $100.
That's the one I have been looking at, any idea how many guides it would take to build that rod. I would like to use recoils on it.
S Hovanec reply :
8+tip would be a good starting point. Conventional wrap might get you into 9. Spiral might go to 7 depending on the load testing.
Delaware Valley Tackle reply :
A light casting rod like this is a good candidate for a spiral wrap.
coak reply :
On 9/22/2014 at 12:40 PM, aavery2 said:Do you have experience casting weights in the 1/8oz range with a model of this rod?
I had an older convergence. At 6'6" the ML/F rod was phenomenal at casting 1/8 oz lures. I wish I wouldn't have broken the tip of this rod. I used it to fish anything from baby torpedoes, in-line spinners, spinnerbaits and small cranks and lipless cranks. I was able to land numerous 4 and 5+ lb smallies on it.
thehooligan reply :
I know you said you want cork, but the Phenix recon2 713 would be ideal. There very lightweight, sensitive, 1/8-1/2oz rating, and priced right. Just an option...
aavery2 reply :
On 9/22/2014 at 11:54 PM, thehooligan said:I know you said you want cork, but the Phenix recon2 713 would be ideal. There very lightweight, sensitive, 1/8-1/2oz rating, and priced right. Just an option...
Thanks, I will check it out. Is this a rod you use often?
.ghoti. reply :
On 9/22/2014 at 9:19 PM, aavery2 said:Sounds like a couple of nice builds, I will be looking for pictures of the finished product. I would love to hear your review of the Alps reel seat as well. I have had some communication with MIke, and I agree that more than likely to get what I want is going to require a custom build and more money. While I am good mechanically I do not have an artistic bone in my body, so rod building is something that I have not tried.
Decent mechanical skills are what you need to get started building rods. You need not be "artistic" to build a perfectly functional rod. If you look at the rodbuilding forums, you will find rods built by some people who have real artistic talent. Doesn't make their rods fish any better, but, man, some of them are beautiful. Personally, I'm not into bling, for bling's sake. I'd rather spend my time making sure everything is fitted together, aligned, wrapped and finished as perfectly as I can. I find some "beauty" in that.
Don't allow any perceived artistic deficiencies stop you from trying your hand at rod building. Just beware. You might like it. And, it's no way to save money.
thehooligan reply :
On 9/23/2014 at 12:32 AM, aavery2 said:Thanks, I will check it out. Is this a rod you use often?
I had the 682 which is a power lighter and 6'8 length. Was just a hair too light for my finesse fishing. Ive considered going back for the 683. I think you would really like the 713, should work great with 1/8oz. The recons are a little overrated, so there typically a 1 -1 1/2 power lighter then there rated.
I typically throw 1/16oz flickshakes, shakeyheads, and 1/8oz dropshot. Have considered getting a custom built rod over the winter on a k2, scv, or nfc blank. Or finding a production rod...
Im hoping to get a k2 blank in my hand someday, ive got to handle nrx's and scv blanks...
Cgrinder reply :
On 9/22/2014 at 10:20 PM, aavery2 said:The reel seat on the *** rods is not comfortable for me to use. I have large hands and it tends to pinch my fingers on the trigger. Even with that said if it casted well it might be something that I would consider, I could always make modification to the trigger to make it work for me. See if you can cast a 1/8th oz road runner on it, that has kind of been what I have tested with.
You know, I have a similar problem with *** reel seats but for whatever reason, the Aussie *** seat doesn't bother me as much. Which reel are you planning to put on the rod? I believe I have some 1/8 Road Runners.
J Francho reply :
On 9/22/2014 at 9:59 PM, S Hovanec said:I'd say the Avid might work for you. The 3S69MLXF lower range is 1/8oz and retails for $100.
I was just gonna say that SCIII spinning blank might be the ticket.
Goose52 reply :
thehooligan mentioned the Phenix Recon C682L (6'8" light-power, 1/16 - 3/8 lure rating) so I'll chime in. It's a foam, split-grip so maybe out of the running but there's no doubt it will load at 1/8oz. I use that rod nearly exclusively to fish weightless Kalin 5" grubs on a 1/0 EWG hook. Weight = .177oz - closer to 3/16 (.1875oz) than 1/8 (.125oz) but watching how much the rod loads with just a grub it's certain it would still have effective loading at a true 1/8oz. I have a PX Type R on the rod with 8lb line and just took it out on the driveway and with a conservative brake setting got 55-60 feet casts with it and a weightless grub is not the most aerodynamic bait to toss. I have a Pixy with ABEC 7 ceramics and 6lb line that on that rod will beat that distance by a bit.
Phenix also makes the C712L rod (7'1" - same line and lure rating) that would perform as well or better I expect.
I also have several of the other rods mentioned above - the Avid 6'9" ML-XF and the LTB 6'9" ML-XF. They both will also toss the weightless Kalin grub but don't have the range of the Phenix rod. I don't typically toss anything lighter on BC gear than the 5" grub so can't give any reports on TRUE 1/16 to 1/8oz baits.
Weightless grub:
The Phenix will handle the lighter weight baits, but still has enough power to hookset through the plastic and into a bass... 
sofarfrome reply :
This is what I use and it is an excellent set up.
Rod: *** *** Black Casting Rod 6'10" Medium - $225 shipped from TW
Reel: Abu Garcia REVO MGX - $235 shipped from ebay, new
The rod is top notch for the money and the reel is also amazing.
aavery2 reply :
On 9/23/2014 at 1:10 AM, Cgrinder said:You know, I have a similar problem with *** reel seats but for whatever reason, the Aussie *** seat doesn't bother me as much. Which reel are you planning to put on the rod? I believe I have some 1/8 Road Runners.
Custom Fuego
aavery2 reply :
I want to thank everyone for all the responses , overwhelming at this point but I sure have some great ideas, feel like I am torn between a custom on a St.Croix spinning blank and the Phoenix 713. Love to hear what anyone else wants to say.
I can see a custom on the Avid blank with recoils and the Alps MVT reel seat, but it will be expensive, the Phoenix is within my original budget .... It's nice to have choices.
DelcoSol reply :
I am also in the same boat looking for a BFS rod. It's new to me so I am not sure if I will like it so I am back and fourth on how much money I want to invest in the rod. I am between the above mentioned Phenix, a Dobyns DX701, and the ML ***. I am concerned about the reel seats though. The *** looks like the one on the Veritas and I hated the way it had the sharp edge on the cap causing blisters. The reel is another story all together. I just picked up an Alphas Type R, I also have a Core and a Chronarch 50e. My other option is to sell one or two of those and just buy a Pixy.. Mainly looking to throw weightless worms, and 1/8 oz jig heads with something like a Keitech on it.
Goose52 reply :
The Phenix is as close as I will probably get to a factory BFS rod. Instead of ordering a true BFS rod from Japan I would probably go with a custom on a spinning rod blank. I have a 5 1/2' light -power spinning rod and one of these days I'm going to put one of my Pixys on it just to see how it will load and cast (if the reel will fit in the reel seat and I don't get honked up by the first guide being so far off the blank... )
Cgrinder reply :
On 9/23/2014 at 6:14 AM, aavery2 said:Custom Fuego
I'll see what I can do. My Fuego has a 100M spool though so it might not go well. I've got a couple other reels to try too.
thehooligan reply :
On 9/23/2014 at 7:13 AM, Goose52 said:The Phenix is as close as I will probably get to a factory BFS rod. Instead of ordering a true BFS rod from Japan I would probably go with a custom on a spinning rod blank. I have a 5 1/2' light -power spinning rod and one of these days I'm going to put one of my Pixys on it just to see how it will load and cast (if the reel will fit in the reel seat and I don't get honked up by the first guide being so far off the blank...
)
Couldn't agree more. Id love to have a custom built off my 6'3 Fenwick smallie or 6'8 1st gen cumara spinning rod blank. Its just easier and cheaper to go pickup the recon, lol. Ill be thinking this over the winter...
aavery2 reply :
On 9/23/2014 at 7:17 AM, Cgrinder said:I'll see what I can do. My Fuego has a 100M spool though so it might not go well. I've got a couple other reels to try too.
I have the Stock spool, the Zillion spool and a 100M, what scares you about the 100M.
Cgrinder reply :
On 9/23/2014 at 8:45 AM, aavery2 said:I have the Stock spool, the Zillion spool and a 100M, what scares you about the 100M.
Oh I was just under the impression that the 100M spool doesn't do terribly well with light lures. I could be wrong, I haven't had a lot of time with my Fuego sadly.
QUAKEnSHAKE reply :
On 9/23/2014 at 4:32 AM, Goose52 said:thehooligan mentioned the Phenix Recon C682L (6'8" light-power, 1/16 - 3/8 lure rating) so I'll chime in. It's a foam, split-grip so maybe out of the running but there's no doubt it will load at 1/8oz. I use that rod nearly exclusively to fish weightless Kalin 5" grubs on a 1/0 EWG hook. Weight = .177oz - closer to 3/16 (.1875oz) than 1/8 (.125oz) but watching how much the rod loads with just a grub it's certain it would still have effective loading at a true 1/8oz. I have a PX Type R on the rod with 8lb line and just took it out on the driveway and with a conservative brake setting got 55-60 feet casts with it and a weightless grub is not the most aerodynamic bait to toss. I have a Pixy with ABEC 7 ceramics and 6lb line that on that rod will beat that distance by a bit.
Phenix also makes the C712L rod (7'1" - same line and lure rating) that would perform as well or better I expect.
I also have several of the other rods mentioned above - the Avid 6'9" ML-XF and the LTB 6'9" ML-XF. They both will also toss the weightless Kalin grub but don't have the range of the Phenix rod. I don't typically toss anything lighter on BC gear that the 5" grub so can't give any reports on TRUE 1/16 to 1/8oz baits.
Weightless grub:
The Phenix will handle the lighter weight baits, but still has enough power to hookset through the plastic and into a bass...
To mention more about the LTB like Goose has about the lower range
The LTB 6'9" ML/XF casting I feel doesnt work all that well with say a small crank like Bitsy Minnow that weighs .0823 ounces. It doesnt load in the tip well and distance control suffers for me. Yeah the BM is under the LTB load rating but I do better with a 7' M/F Smoke rod thats only rated down to 1/4. Im not recommending the smoke just comparing my personal findings of the LTB weakness at the lighter end.
aavery2 reply :
On 9/23/2014 at 9:05 AM, Cgrinder said:Oh I was just under the impression that the 100M spool doesn't do terribly well with light lures. I could be wrong, I haven't had a lot of time with my Fuego sadly.
This is my observations the three spools that I mentioned, the stock Fuego spool a TDZ100ha and 100sha, and the TDZ-100M. The 100M out performs all the other by a small margin during normal casting situations, but I notice that it performs much better when pitching lighter baits. My belief is that there is a difference between the Mag Z and Mag V outside the shape of the spool.
benthinkin reply :
On 9/22/2014 at 12:40 PM, aavery2 said:Do you have experience casting weights in the 1/8oz range with a model of this rod?
the rod does everything perfectly. from shakeyheads to dropshots and 5/16 ounce finesse jigs and all weights and sizes the rod performs extremely well.
benthinkin reply :
On 9/22/2014 at 12:40 PM, aavery2 said:Do you have experience casting weights in the 1/8oz range with a model of this rod?
I havent done much of 1/8 ounce. what I have done is fairly light casting. If you are looking for something that can cast an 1/8 ounce a mile and still have backbone I am having trouble thinking of anything.
timsford reply :
*** makes a 6'10" medium light fast action rod in the *** black series. Its a special order rod from 13 or any of their retailers as its made for the aussie market. It would be hard to get it to try it out but from everything ive heard its an excellent rod. A lot of guys are using it with tuned pixys and 50 series shimanos and casting baits as small as 1/16 oz
Tim Kelly reply :
I use a 7ft high mod MHX popping blank spiral wrapped with microguides. I think it's rated something like 1/16 to 3/8. Throws pretty much anything light pretty well with my avail spooled morrum. Not a huge amount of backbone, but how much power do you want in a rod used with 6lb line? The rod weighs next to nothing and does a very good job. Pretty sure it didn't cost more than $200 to build and it's a much much more sensitive and pleasurable rod to use than the Volkey BFS that many people buy for this application.
Jaheff reply :
Late to the party and nothing to really add, but I agree with Goose52 and thehooligan. I enjoy finesse fishing with my C713.
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