Braided Line Without A Leader....amazed At Results... 2024
primetime reply :
Happy Holidays,
I have had a week off from work and have spent ALOT of time on the water Bass fishing here in Florida and I have always been a guy who only fishes braids with a diameter under 6lb test on Spining reels and typically 50lb or 65lb on Baitcasters for flipping.
Here is a question I have....Do you guys ever use your spinning gear with thin braid and skip the leader, even in clear water? I have tried the Braid as Backing for clear water with 10-20ft of FLuoro and also Mono for Topwaters, carolina rigs etc. since it floats. Other than the fact that Fluoro sinks, I am finding that it really does not help me out except causes more breakoffs due to extra knots.
I did an experiment with my buddy where I used 25lb Tuff Line xp with a 6lb diam in a bright green color and I had the other rod with 10lb Power pro in green and no leader at all while fishing slow with Light Texas rigged Worms, tubes, and soft craws...I actually used a drop shot rig with some small 3" drop shot baits with the 2lb diameter line vs. his straight 8lb fluorocarbon setup and had more success.....My thinking is this.....Bass can Feel heavier line in the water, and even in clear water, they can still see "invisible Fluorcarbon" as no water is clear with the same tint etc..I have used the slim beauty knot for the extra fluoro but even using that set up I had breakoffs due to knot failure as it is impossible to avoid unless you re-tie every ten minutes...
I am now thinking any braid is better going right to the hook without a leader unless a heavy Shock Leader is Necessary and if I want Fluorocarbon for Confidence, I spool up a reel with all FLuoro and skip the leader. I also rig up a baitcaster with 12lb Trilene xl Just like I did as a Kid and use that for My topwaters, and then one with 20lb for Carolina rigs, and Spinnerbaits since Mono casts so nice and I only need one improved Clinch Knot.
I love braid for the small Diameter and floating properties as I am a line watcher, and I have even used the Yellow Samurai 8 strand Spectra in 15lb 2.5 diameter and had plenty of action. I did notice that I was not getting bit in a clear water Phosphate pit with the yellow, and when I switched to the green power pro in 2lb dia, 10lb test, I started doing as good as my buddy who is now more confused than I am since I have alway's preached Long fluoro/mono Leaders with Braid and used it as backing for the past year (10-20ft) since it saves money and the knot gets less stress and you can still cast just as far..(stole that idea from an Aaron Martins video)
sorry for the ramble, but I would love some thoughts and experiences. I also think that Green Line should be most visable since we have all heard the phrase "when in doubt, throw green pumpkin". If they can see the green soft bait, then they see the green line for sure? I know for a fact many pro's flip heavy jigs in cover with 65 & 80lb braid without a leader since 10-12lb dia is better than adding a 30lb leader.......Are we just wasting money with more leaders? is anyone successful with swivels? I am now confused & hoping others can share some advice or ideas of what you do when using braid as mainline.
Thanks.
MarkH024 reply :
I've always used straight braid and fish a lot of gin clear water. The only time I hesitate is around a lot of rock. I catch plenty with no leader and I feel it's more of a confidence thing.
hoosierbass07 reply :
Lets say it's middle summer and you are fishing for bass in lake. The bass are neutral and you want to use finesse fishing lures (Texas Rigged plastic worms). You have to pick one rod/reel: 1. Spinning reel with 8 pound mono clear color. 2. Spinning reel with ten pound braid green color with no leader. Which one would you pick? Mono or braid?
Comfortably Numb reply :
Most lake I fish are slightly stained. I do not tourney fish. I use 20# PP on my medium spin rods. 12# PP on my medium light dropshot rod and 8# PP on my light crappie rod. I have tried flouro leaders and personally see no difference except snapping 10# seaguar red flouro on hooksets and losing more lures.
However IF money was on the line I would try to get every advantage I could and use a flouro leader.
Dont forget 8# mono is thicker and stiffer than 8# braid so braid will give a light bait much more action.
Does that even make sense LOL?
gobig reply :
If you use a Alberto knot to join mono or floro to braid you wont have the break offs as long as you are tying the knot right. There are several reasons to use a leader. For instance with a dropshot, braid and floro will give two totally different actions to the bait. Braid floats floro sinks. Or as mentioned around rocks, braid and rocks don't mix. I think fish can be line shy and I would rather error on the side that they are.
rippin-lips reply :
Fluoro has it's advantages. It excels for slack line bite detection and also visibility. I've also tied a leader on after not getting many bites on straight braid and started getting bit 3x more. Sometimes braid is overkill for certain things. I also feel it could just be your knot. I was actually showing a friend the other day how to join braid to a leader. #50 braid and #10 mono then a Palomar to the lure. Hooked it to the spring scale and hit approx. 9lbs before the Palomar broke. Did the same test again using the same piece of line but used an improved clinch to the lure. It broke around 8-8.5lbs. The Alberto never failed though.
RoLo reply :
In central Florida, sharp rocks and mussel beds are not a problem,
so we tie 30-lb braided line directly to the lure 100-percent of the time.
With regard to line visibility, braided line is very fine and hard to see as most line-watchers will tell you.
Bass are not intimidated by snap-swivels, unsightly rattleboxes, long goofy fiberguards
and lures with 3 big treble hooks dangling down, so why would an ultra-fine filament frighten them away? 
Roger
doyle8218 reply :
I couldn.t agree more - look at the package hanging on Jika Rigs - it's like a suitcase and they hammer that.On 12/26/2013 at 2:34 PM, RoLo said:In central Florida, sharp rocks and mussel beds are not a problem,
so we tie braided line directly to the lure 100-percent of the time.
With regard to line visibility, braided line if very fine and hard to see as most line-watchers will tell you.
Bass readily approve of snap-swivels, unsightly rattleboxes, long fiberguards
and lures with 3 treble hooks dangling down, why would an ultra-fine filament frighten them away?
Roger
Oregon Native reply :
I use the yellow braid as I can see it so feel better using a fluro leader. Use a double uni with five wraps braid side and four on the fluro. No complaints. Besides if I break off the braid I hear the cash resgisters ring. If my leader breaks....oh well. Like to always have a full spool....(mainly spin rods...8 and ten)
thehooligan reply :
I use braid on all my rods, flouro leaders when fishing clear water. As an experiment one day, i had 10lb yellow pp on and decided to skip the leader. I was in absolute clear water fishing a flickshake, (finesse fishing) and nailed a nice bass. Im another believer that the fish is looking at the bait not the line.
Im still more confident with a leader though, and a big bonus is you save alot of money. I was spooling my reels every 3 weeks when i was using straight copoly/mono... Now i can get a few years out of a spool of braid, and months out of a spool of flouro for leaders...
roadwarrior reply :
I'm still experimenting, but another important aspect of using a leader is the ability
to break-off when you need to. I fish a lot of fast moving water and sometimes it's
just not feasible to work with a plug-knocker. Fishing from the bank is another example.
SENKOSAM reply :
Synopsis of the above I agree with:
Best reasons for using braid.
1 far less line twist and tangles when using a smaller diameter, spinning reel spool or twisty lures
2. no stretch for long distance hook sets and playing fish
3 smaller diameter allows cranks to go deeper with less line lag or arc
Best reasons to use a leader with braid
1 more abrasion resistance
2 allows certain baits unique action not seen with braid
3 includes the advantage of both types of line
4 the leader line is far cheaper than braid
other:
1 Double uni-knot - no breakoffs
2 line shy fish are plainly not active fish anyway (if there is such a thing as a line shy fish)
3 dark colored, thin braid is difficult to see
Darren. reply :
Another 100% of the time leader-user here.
Agree with many here, and primarily because braid is expensive to retie numerous times in a fishing outing. It makes the mainline dwindle faster. Adding a leader slows this down tremendously.
Albright, uni-to-uni leader knots have proven themselves to me over and over. I have 100% confidence in them. I learned to tie them (over and over) and test them which helped in my confidence of them.
And like Oregon Native, I use hi-vis yellow, so prefer a leader for greater stealth - whether it matters or not, it's what I choose to do.
A-Jay reply :
On 12/26/2013 at 11:33 AM, hoosierbass07 said:Lets say it's middle summer and you are fishing for bass in lake. The bass are neutral and you want to use finesse fishing lures (Texas Rigged plastic worms). You have to pick one rod/reel: 1. Spinning reel with 8 pound mono clear color. 2. Spinning reel with ten pound braid green color with no leader. Which one would you pick? Mono or braid?
I think that the characteristics that mono displays on a spinning reel is why they invented braid. 
Fish will eat both baits - but on a long cast, you'll get a better hook set with the braid.
Braid.
A-Jay
Felix77 reply :
I fished one time this past year in which I decided to forego the leader on my braid. Never again. My friend outfished me 4 fish to my every 1. We were in gin clear water and I am convinced that the Fluoro he was using made all the difference for him.
We even talked about it afterwards and he agreed.
Before that I messed around from the bank between no leader and leader and always seem to get more bites with the leader.
It may be just a confidence thing but that's how I roll from now on. Leader all the way. 
michang5 reply :
I am bank fisherman and went straight braid for a couple of weeks. I liked the ease (no leader to tie; color braid with yellow marker and go). However an unexpected issue came up. I got snagged a few times and had to break off the line. Twice I left MANY MANY yards of braid floating in the water attached to the lure*. As a result, I had to buy another box of PP braid last week to respool.
Breaking off 7-10' of Invizx is a much more economical proposition.
*Weeks later I returned to one of the spots I broke off a length of braid. I cast and got hung up. I ended up bringing in a suspiciously familiar length of yellow braid with a Gama hook and purple Senko. Was able to salvage the hook.
On 12/26/2013 at 9:09 PM, roadwarrior said:I'm still experimenting, but another important aspect of using a leader is the ability
to break-off when you need to. I fish a lot of fast moving water and sometimes it's
just not feasible to work with a plug-knocker. Fishing from the bank is another example.
SirSnookalot reply :
On 12/26/2013 at 9:09 PM, roadwarrior said:I'm still experimenting, but another important aspect of using a leader is the ability
to break-off when you need to. I fish a lot of fast moving water and sometimes it's
just not feasible to work with a plug-knocker. Fishing from the bank is another example.
This is a good point. First off I fish braid, leader and swivel 100% of the time in fresh and with only 1 exception in salt. There have been quite a few times fishing from a jettie where I can't land the fish, to avoid being spooled I''ll break it off at the leader.
My setup is 10 or 15# braid with a 20# floroclear leader, inshore set up isn't too much different. I prefer the leader as not wanting my braid getting tangled in the hooks, it can be a nightmare to untangle and that is lost fishing time. My knots are of the most basic, lure gets a loopknot, swivels get a standard clinch and braid to swivel gets a double wrapped improved clinch, knot failure is only due to an occasional user error. Fish in heavy vegetation to open crystal clear water, fish run the gamut size wise and haven't had the need or desire to deviate.
BassinLou reply :
I fish a lot of braid, and in my neck of the woods I find the bass to be very line shy so a fluro leader definitely helps. The other advantage of a leader is when it comes to break offs. I will rather break off 3 ft of leader material, than try to go head to head with braid. Although the suggestion to bring a small piece of wood and wrap the braid on that, was a good idea.
Felix77 reply :
On 12/27/2013 at 12:41 AM, BassinLou said:I fish a lot of braid, and in my neck of the woods I find the bass to be very line shy so a fluro leader definitely helps. The other advantage of a leader is when it comes to break offs. I will rather break off 3 ft of leader material, than try to go head to head with braid. Although the suggestion to bring a small piece of wood and wrap the braid on that, was a good idea.
Did this with a thick branch from the bank after a big snag which cut into my hand when I tried pulling it too hard. The only problem here is the fray you leave on the line from pulling the braid with the wood. I rather go the leader route every time.
S Hovanec reply :
I did a little experiment during my vacation while fishing on Erie a couple years ago. 2 set-ups, almost identical. One with 10/2 PowerPro and a 18' 6# fluoro leader and one with straight 10/2 PowerPro. The PowerPro only rod didn't get a bite but the leadered PowerPro saw much action.
Smallmouth Hunter reply :
I have been using leaders for a while now, and I have had no problems with break-offs. If you tie your leader knot correctly, you will bend a hook before you break off. One problem I see a lot of people do is not using a strong enough leader. If you are using 15lb braid, don't use a 6lb leader or 8lb even. This just weakens it. I stick to 12-15 lb leaders, which don't cast as well, but don't break off.
I have actually had less break-offs when using a leader.
1. Better abrasion resistance for when you get wrapped by a fish or something like that.
2. Shock-absorption of the fluoro leader. Braid tends to snap when sudden, high pressure is applied so this fluoro leader tames this problem.
Also, fluoro leader is a confidence thing. If I feel it is helping me, then I will stick with it.
Arv reply :
I used to use straight braid back when I lived in nc.i dealt mostly with mud and some grass so it was great. Now in mo I have to fish over a lot of rock and braid simply does not hold up as well as fc when dragging jigs and t rigs on the bottom. Also, as mentioned, if I do get hung up the leader is much more economical to break off as opposed to a direct tie.
mjseverson24 reply :
I use straight braid for heavy cover flipping and pitching and punching, as well as hollow-body frogs and buzzbaits. I use all floro for medium to light jigs and T-rigs. I use hybrid line for all moving presentations like swimjigs, spinners and cranks. mono for sparse cover topwater presentations, and 10 lb braid with 8 lb floro leader for all finesse spinning reel applications... each has a time and a place that it excels in. if I didnt fish tournaments I would probably switch my to mono or hybrid line for jigs and t-rigs, but I do believe floro does account for a few more fish throughout the day on moderate to clear lakes...
Mitch
BassinLou reply :
On 12/27/2013 at 1:40 AM, aprw1 said:I have been using leaders for a while now, and I have had no problems with break-offs. If you tie your leader knot correctly, you will bend a hook before you break off. One problem I see a lot of people do is not using a strong enough leader. If you are using 15lb braid, don't use a 6lb leader or 8lb even. This just weakens it. I stick to 12-15 lb leaders, which don't cast as well, but don't break off.
I have actually had less break-offs when using a leader.
1. Better abrasion resistance for when you get wrapped by a fish or something like that.
2. Shock-absorption of the fluoro leader. Braid tends to snap when sudden, high pressure is applied so this fluoro leader tames this problem.
Also, fluoro leader is a confidence thing. If I feel it is helping me, then I will stick with it.
Just like when we use the phrase match the hatch, I follow the same concept with braid to fluro leaders. I match the diameters. By doing this you will avoid accidental break offs.
gobig reply :
I don't think the comparison of straight braid and leader can be made in one or two fishing trips. Think of it this way... If you go fishing 100 days out of the year and a leader only makes a difference 5 % of the time that means 95 times out of 100 there will be no difference. Its the 5 times I am worried about.
primetime reply :
Thanks foor all the tips and answers to my question (Confusion). I also have a confidence thing with having a leader on the business end of my braid & I have to use braid because I love the small Diameter for longer casts as well as the non stretch and sheer Power. I can't bring myself to using swivels unless I am casting a weightless fluke for line twist in the summer in some stained water full of weeds. My big Take away is......I need to work on my knots and practice the Alberto and uni and maybe abandon the "10ft Fluoro Leaders with bright Braid & even the Darker stuff."
I agree that making a comparison after only a few trips is silly when drawing conclusions as we have all had days when Fish want "Odd" Presentations......
I think I am going to work on the knots suggested, keep going directly to Braid on Flipping applications in stained water, but I agree that the Benefits of Mono and Fluoro vs. Properties of Braid are necessary in getting the best action out of your presentation.
I work a few days at a tackle shop in Tampa Florida and I was discussing this question with a good customer who is one of the best Snook and Redfish Anglerr's I have ever met. He introduced me to a version of the Bimini twist that is super thin yet long, and protects the fluoro from breaking off. I have been working on knots while watching tv at night and I am starting to see the little mistake I am making....
and when the knot fails on a nice Bass.....I don't consider it a small thing since it is "user erro" and My Error.....
Thanks for all the advice...Alot of great responses and I will keep trying to figure out a system that works for me.
primetime reply :
On 12/26/2013 at 10:20 PM, DarrenM said:Another 100% of the time leader-user here.
Agree with many here, and primarily because braid is expensive to retie numerous times in a fishing outing. It makes the mainline dwindle faster. Adding a leader slows this down tremendously.
Albright, uni-to-uni leader knots have proven themselves to me over and over. I have 100% confidence in them. I learned to tie them (over and over) and test them which helped in my confidence of them.
And like Oregon Native, I use hi-vis yellow, so prefer a leader for greater stealth - whether it matters or not, it's what I choose to do.
I like your answer and I truly want to use leaders as I am a line watcher as well especially during the Spring when Bass will Pick up a worm and spit it out in just a few seconds to either move it or simply check it out....I am working on the knots that you suggessted and have been practicing doing a better job and taking my time....
If you are using 20lb braid for example.....what lb test Fluoro would you recommend? 10lb...15lb? 20lb?
I would love to hear what you would suggest. I am finding that using 20lb test braid with an 8lb leader is almost silly as I should just go 8lb fluro the entire way at that point since Fluoro will fail at 8lbs....Do you match diameters? Thanks for your detailed response
BassinLou reply :
On 12/28/2013 at 1:28 AM, primetime said:I like your answer and I truly want to use leaders as I am a line watcher as well especially during the Spring when Bass will Pick up a worm and spit it out in just a few seconds to either move it or simply check it out....I am working on the knots that you suggessted and have been practicing doing a better job and taking my time....
If you are using 20lb braid for example.....what lb test Fluoro would you recommend? 10lb...15lb? 20lb?
I would love to hear what you would suggest. I am finding that using 20lb test braid with an 8lb leader is almost silly as I should just go 8lb fluro the entire way at that point since Fluoro will fail at 8lbs....Do you match diameters? Thanks for your detailed response
If you are using 20lb braid, that has the diameter of 8lb mono. So 10lb leader should be the minimum to use. Primetime, based on some of your responses there two things you should improve on. 1. Practice and practice some more on your leader knots. Alberto is my go to. I wrap 7 up and 4 down before I really lubricate with saliva and then cinch down tight. 2. Even if you are using 20lb braid and you have light leaders, for example less than 10lbs , if your hooksets are really hard you are going to snap the leader.
bigfishbk86 reply :
I fish green bay A LOT and will not use anything but straight braid. And on a calm sunny day you can EASILY see bottom in 12-14ft of water. I watch the guys around me futz with flouro and just break off too often. 90% of the water i fish besides green bay has at least 3 feet of visibility and there too i never use anything but braid and copoly, never with a leader. No one will ever convince me fish are line shy 
As others have stated, there might be some reasons for using a leader with braid, but i for one will never use one.
Raul reply :
Can you tie braided line direct to your bait/hook ? yes you can, the fluoro /nylon leader does serve a purpose, braided doesn´t do well when rubbed against sharp objects like chunk rock or zebra mussels, if you don´t fish under those conditions there´s truely no point in tying a leader.
Insanity reply :
I've always used straight braid since changing over to it when Berkley came out with Fireline how ever long that's been. I thought the black would blend in fine in the grass filled lake I fish most often. Figured I'd use the xl when the water was clear. But the fish didn't seem to notice.
First fluro I tried was the last. The breaking strength was two pounds less then the rating.
RoLo reply :
To my mind, line visibility is a non-issue with braid, and unless there's a good reason,
I'm not going to run a junction knot through my line guides.
Abrasion-resistance is a good reason for using a leader (rocks, quagga mussels, zebra mussels ~ ~).
When we're on vacation where abrasion-resistance is important, I'll use a leader with a heavier diameter
than the braided main line, because 'line diameter' is a major contributor to abrasion-resistance.
I prefer a copolymer leader over fluorocarbon, such as P-line CXX or Maxima, but never as a main line.
Fluoro is very stiff, in fact some brands are about as wiry as the titanium leaders I use for northern pike.
In addition, fluorocarbon streeeeetches just like nylon, even high-grade fluorocarbon.
I tried Seaguar Tatsu as a main line and had to take 2 backwards before setting the hook (if you know what I mean).
I'm not saying that I hate fluorocarbon.....................................Yes I am. 
Roger
Darren. reply :
On 12/28/2013 at 1:28 AM, primetime said:I like your answer and I truly want to use leaders as I am a line watcher as well especially during the Spring when Bass will Pick up a worm and spit it out in just a few seconds to either move it or simply check it out....I am working on the knots that you suggessted and have been practicing doing a better job and taking my time....
If you are using 20lb braid for example.....what lb test Fluoro would you recommend? 10lb...15lb? 20lb?
I would love to hear what you would suggest. I am finding that using 20lb test braid with an 8lb leader is almost silly as I should just go 8lb fluro the entire way at that point since Fluoro will fail at 8lbs....Do you match diameters? Thanks for your detailed response
As for knots, yeah, practice, practice, practice, and plenty of spit to moisten!!
I use both Fluoro and copolymer lines all the way from 6 lb test up to (currently) 15 lb test.
I do not match diameters. I think of braid as a mainline and with yellow, a watchable mainline.
The leader I tie has nothing to do with what pound test braid I'm using.
Example, on some of my spinning rigs I've got 10lb test PowerPro yellow but I tie on a 15 lb Fluoro/Copoly leader. Doesn't matter what size braid, the leader is my contact with the fish, and most often, what type of area I'm fishing determines leader. I.e., lots of logs/sticks - heavier fluoro/copoly. Lighter stuff, lighter line if necessary.
A 10 or 20lb braid can bring in monsters if you know how to play the fish properly (which takes practice, or desperation 
).
Hope this helps.
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