Braid guy looking for a line with some stretch 2024
PatrickKnight reply :
Mono, coply, or fluro not really sure which to try. I fish a fairly shallow fast moving river. What do you guys prefer (no matter the line I already have the KVD line and lure to use)? I will be putting the line on a Stradic FK 3000 and would like to keep the cost at or close to 20 bucks for the spool.
RoLo reply :
If I were looking to depart from braid (Fat Chance) I'd go with Sufix Siege copolymer nylon
(Sufix Elite on spinning gear). It's shock-absorbent and has great abrasion resistance & knot strength.
Roger
Gooldy reply :
I am not sure how much stretch you want, but floro would have less stretch than either mono or copoly.
Scott F reply :
On 3/3/2017 at 9:51 AM, Gooldy said:I am not sure how much stretch you want, but floro would have less stretch than either mono or copoly.
Not sure where you get your information but flourocarbon line stetches as much (sometimes more, sometimes less) than mono. There are some differences between brands but the differences are not great.
RoLo reply :
On 3/3/2017 at 9:51 AM, Gooldy said:I am not sure how much stretch you want, but floro would have less stretch than either mono or copoly.
Welcome to Bass Resource 
Some years ago, a comprehensive study was performed on fluoro & nylon lines (they're both monofilament).
Based on their results, the difference in line-stretch between nylon and fluoro was not material-specific,
but depended on the line-brand in question. Some nylon brands stretched more than some fluoro brands,
while some fluoro brands stretched more than some nylon brands...Way More!
Roger
new2BC4bass reply :
On 3/3/2017 at 9:51 AM, Gooldy said:I am not sure how much stretch you want, but floro would have less stretch than either mono or copoly.
Not true. BTW, 
Tackletour has an article comparing the stretch of fluorocarbon to mono. My limited experience is the same with the caveat that when fluoro finally breaks it is necessary to cut off a few more feet because of its splitting.
Delaware Valley Tackle reply :
Also Fluoro doesn't have the elasticity that mono does. Fluoro weakens when over stretched. I'm curious as to why stretch is the characteristic being sought.
new2BC4bass reply :
You want a softer line for a spinning reel. Less memory. The Sufix Elite mentioned by RoLo is a good line to start with. Trilene XL is another good limp line for spinning reels. Super Natural is probably another, but I have only used it on baitcast reels.
Gooldy reply :
On 3/3/2017 at 9:58 AM, Scott F said:Not sure where you get your information but flourocarbon line stetches as much (sometimes more, sometimes less) than mono. There are some differences between brands but the differences are not great.
On 3/3/2017 at 10:48 AM, new2BC4bass said:
Not true.
On 3/3/2017 at 10:11 AM, RoLo said:
Welcome to Bass Resource
Some years ago, a comprehensive study was performed on fluoro & nylon lines (they're both monofilament).
Based on their results, the difference in line-stretch between nylon and fluoro was not material-specific,
but depended on the line-brand in question. Some nylon brands stretched more than some fluoro brands,
while some fluoro brands stretched more than some nylon brands...Way More!
Roger
Hmm, maybe from Bass Resource, for a start?
" Yet another advantage of this space age line is that fluorocarbon has less stretch than typical nylon or copolymer monofilaments. "
I know I'm new to bass fishing, and I'm not even saying this isn't true if someone actually did the testing to find out. But there is a lot of conflicting info out there. Tons of what I've read online has all said it's stiffer, which seems legit based on my fly fishing experience. But it's probably just the extra sensitivity that makespecially it seem that way. My mistake.
JustinJ reply :
Trilene xl
Turkey sandwich reply :
On 3/3/2017 at 12:27 PM, Gooldy said:
Hmm, maybe from Bass Resource, for a start?
" Yet another advantage of this space age line is that fluorocarbon has less stretch than typical nylon or copolymer monofilaments. "
I know I'm new to bass fishing, and I'm not even saying this isn't true if someone actually did the testing to find out. But there is a lot of conflicting info out there. Tons of what I've read online has all said it's stiffer, which seems legit based on my fly fishing experience. But it's probably just the extra sensitivity that makespecially it seem that way. My mistake.
Mono and FC stretch, sometimes quite a bit. The conflicting info is primarily industry marketing and sales crap. Without actually testing line, or reading studies, you'd likely have no way of knowing. There are guys on here who can explain the sensitivity characteristics of FC far better than I can, but the gist that I've gotten is that the density of FC coupled with it's tendency to not absorb water are the key elements in any perceived difference in sensitivity. That said, I may be mistaken and guys like @WRB likely have much better explanations.
As for your immediate question, what lures/techniques do you plan to fish on this particular set up? There are lots of good mono, FC, and copolymer/hybrid lines out there that accel at different things. Why, in particular do you want stretch?
new2BC4bass reply :
On 3/3/2017 at 9:51 AM, Gooldy said:I am not sure how much stretch you want, but floro would have less stretch than either mono or copoly.
TackleTour has a several articles on fluorocarbon. Go to the Review Archive. Page down to Line Reviews. At the bottom of this section there is a Fluorocarbon Showdown Part I and Part II. Part II deals with stretch.
I read all the time how fluorocarbon has no...or little compared to mono...stretch, but my limited experience with fluorocarbon says otherwise. Got snagged in the Delaware one day while using fluorocarbon. It stretched like a rubber band before breaking. There is a picture in Part I showing what fluoro likes like after breaking. I had to cut several more feet of line off to clear the frayed/split section of line.
Spider reply :
Top or bottom fishing?
Mono has stretch and rebounds back to it's original form, but is not UV resistant. It is also nick resistant, and floats.
Fluorocarbon, has as much stretch as mono but deforms, "Does not return to it's original shape, getting thinner" But is hard for the fish to see in clear water. It also sinks, so adds flutter to bottom baits, as they drop. It's also dense and nick resistant.
Ether work in dirty/stained water.
bagofdonuts reply :
remember floro sinks and is more dense than mono. it depends on your application. if fishing something on the bottom and feel is important (texas rig, jig, etc.) floro is a better choice. if your fishing topwater than mono is a much better choice. In between is a toss up (spinner baits, swim baits), however i'm leaning more and more towards floro for these applications as well, but mono's not a horrible choice. for cranking i much prefer floro.
PatrickKnight reply :
On 3/3/2017 at 9:50 AM, RoLo said:If I were looking to depart from braid (Fat Chance) I'd go with Sufix Siege copolymer nylon
(Sufix Elite on spinning gear). It's shock-absorbent and has great abrasion resistance & knot strength.
Roger
Elite is one of the ones I was looking at.
On 3/3/2017 at 10:48 AM, Delaware Valley Tackle said:Also Fluoro doesn't have the elasticity that mono does. Fluoro weakens when over stretched. I'm curious as to why stretch is the characteristic being sought.
Lost a fair amount of fish last year so I am trying new things from rod to line to see if I can get it where I can keep hooked fish pinned.
On 3/3/2017 at 4:55 PM, Turkey sandwich said:
Mono and FC stretch, sometimes quite a bit. The conflicting info is primarily industry marketing and sales crap. Without actually testing line, or reading studies, you'd likely have no way of knowing. There are guys on here who can explain the sensitivity characteristics of FC far better than I can, but the gist that I've gotten is that the density of FC coupled with it's tendency to not absorb water are the key elements in any perceived difference in sensitivity. That said, I may be mistaken and guys like @WRB likely have much better explanations.
As for your immediate question, what lures/techniques do you plan to fish on this particular set up? There are lots of good mono, FC, and copolymer/hybrid lines out there that accel at different things. Why, in particular do you want stretch?
90% of what I do is jig heads tipped with some kind of plastic, such as grubs, paddletails, and tubes.
On 3/3/2017 at 10:47 PM, Spider said:Top or bottom fishing?
Mono has stretch and rebounds back to it's original form, but is not UV resistant. It is also nick resistant, and floats.
Fluorocarbon, has as much stretch as mono but deforms, "Does not return to it's original shape, getting thinner" But is hard for the fish to see in clear water. It also sinks, so adds flutter to bottom baits, as they drop. It's also dense and nick resistant.
Ether work in dirty/stained water.
Fishing on the bottom but drifting with the current. However a deep hole on this river is 8 feet deep.
bigfruits reply :
6 or 8# sniper FC. great all around line.
you can put some cheap line on first (or use some of the old braid if its still spooled) so that you dont have to fill the entire 3000 spool.
Turkey sandwich reply :
I fish rocky rivers primarily, and for all of the baits you've mentioned, I fish braid to a Yozuri Hybrid leader 90% of the time. Curious, why are you moving away from braid as a mainline?
PatrickKnight reply :
On 3/4/2017 at 4:16 AM, Turkey sandwich said:I fish rocky rivers primarily, and for all of the baits you've mentioned, I fish braid to a Yozuri Hybrid leader 90% of the time. Curious, why are you moving away from braid as a mainline?
Honestly just want to try something new. I lost a fair amount of fish last year between hook up and landing so I am going to put something other than braid on one set up to see if it makes any kind of a difference.
A-Jay reply :
On 3/4/2017 at 4:43 AM, PatrickKnight said:
Honestly just want to try something new. I lost a fair amount of fish last year between hook up and landing so I am going to put something other than braid on one set up to see if it makes any kind of a difference.
Losing 'some' bass is & will always be part of fishing for them, just the way it is. But realistically it should be a very small part.
In reference to line type choice, as long as it allows for proper bait presentation, the actual line type / characteristics may only come into play on the hookset. During 'the fight' itself, the angler's actions often dictate the outcome, not the line.
While line (and leader) choice is important, so is using a proper & balanced outfit that includes quality terminal tackle (especially hooks).
However IMO, the best gear in the world may not make up for poor fish fighting / landing technique. It's an aspect of this sport that is often overlooked. It's also something that one can 'get away with' when dealing with smaller fish, but may rise it's ugly head when the fish an angler has spent the whole season (or a life time) looking for, strikes. There are as many different ways to fight & land bass as there are lures to catch them. And if the fish ends up in the boat, I guess one could call that successful. But bigger bass have a way of showing us when & where we may be lacking. For example, if I chose to horse & speed reel a big bass to the boat in a few seconds flat, I should not be surprise when that 'still green' fish loses it's mind boatside on a short line while I'm trying to land it.
More than my line type, I believe that a net improves my chances of landing a big fish everytime; where as the boat flip, does not.
A-Jay
Spider reply :
On 3/4/2017 at 4:43 AM, PatrickKnight said:
Honestly just want to try something new. I lost a fair amount of fish last year between hook up and landing so I am going to put something other than braid on one set up to see if it makes any kind of a difference.
Any Fluorocarbon line would be good for off the bottom fishing.
Fluorocarbon has good abrasion resistance and sinks. The stretchiest is Seaguar Invizx.
WRB reply :
You are talking about a 3000 series spinning reel so the line should be less than .012 diameter or 12 lb test.
For you mono guys that think it stretches how much force do you think it starts to stretch, 33% of the lb test? 12 lb test line 1/3rd is 4 lbs. Do you think your rod can lift or put 4 lbs of force on the line? Most Nylon monofilament or copolymer monofilament or fluorocarbon monofilament line yield strength is over 50% of it's lb test before it starts to stretch, it's not a elastomer, it's a high strength polymer.
So....what lb test are you looking for?
Tom
PatrickKnight reply :
On 3/4/2017 at 12:22 PM, WRB said:You are talking about a 3000 series spinning reel so the line should be less than .012 diameter or 12 lb test.
For you mono guys that think it stretches how much force do you think it starts to stretch, 33% of the lb test? 12 lb test line 1/3rd is 4 lbs. Do you think your rod can lift or put 4 lbs of force on the line? Most Nylon monofilament or copolymer monofilament or fluorocarbon monofilament line yield strength is over 50% of it's lb test before it starts to stretch, it's not a elastomer, it's a high strength polymer.
So....what lb test are you looking for?
Tom
I was looking at lines with a diameter of around .010 to .011, I learned a while ago its more important to look at diameter than lb test.
fissure_man reply :
On 3/4/2017 at 12:22 PM, WRB said:You are talking about a 3000 series spinning reel so the line should be less than .012 diameter or 12 lb test.
For you mono guys that think it stretches how much force do you think it starts to stretch, 33% of the lb test? 12 lb test line 1/3rd is 4 lbs. Do you think your rod can lift or put 4 lbs of force on the line? Most Nylon monofilament or copolymer monofilament or fluorocarbon monofilament line yield strength is over 50% of it's lb test before it starts to stretch, it's not a elastomer, it's a high strength polymer.
So....what lb test are you looking for?
Tom
This is not true at all. You can prove it to yourself by tying some mono to a tree and pulling gently, then doing the same with braid. It doesn’t take much strain to change the ‘feel’ of a line, especially on a long cast. Dragging a lure on bottom with say 40’ tight line, the difference in feel between mono and braid of the same diameter is dramatic.
For the OP – if you think the ‘stiffness’ of your setup is costing you fish, you might also consider a less powerful, longer, and/or slower action rod (that’s still sufficient for hook setting).
The “shock absorption” of a rod is consistent through the fight, whereas the actual linear stretch of a “stretchy” line depends on how much line you have out. The most stretch occurs at the start of the fight (hook set) which is exactly when you don’t want it. Closer to the boat, when line stretch would be more desirable, the “stretchiness” is reduced because the fish is on a shorter leash.
PatrickKnight reply :
On 3/4/2017 at 6:11 AM, A-Jay said:
Losing 'some' bass is & will always be part of fishing for them, just the way it is. But realistically it should be a very small part.
In reference to line type choice, as long as it allows for proper bait presentation, the actual line type / characteristics may only come into play on the hookset. During 'the fight' itself, the angler's actions often dictate the outcome, not the line.
While line (and leader) choice is important, so is using a proper & balanced outfit that includes quality terminal tackle (especially hooks).
However IMO, the best gear in the world may not make up for poor fish fighting / landing technique. It's an aspect of this sport that is often overlooked. It's also something that one can 'get away with' when dealing with smaller fish, but may rise it's ugly head when the fish an angler has spent the whole season (or a life time) looking for, strikes. There are as many different ways to fight & land bass as there are lures to catch them. And if the fish ends up in the boat, I guess one could call that successful. But bigger bass have a way of showing us when & where we may be lacking. For example, if I chose to horse & speed reel a big bass to the boat in a few seconds flat, I should not be surprise when that 'still green' fish loses it's mind boatside on a short line while I'm trying to land it.
More than my line type, I believe that a net improves my chances of landing a big fish everytime; where as the boat flip, does not.
A-Jay
Good insight here sir!
PatrickKnight reply :
On 3/4/2017 at 9:57 PM, fissure_man said:
This is not true at all. You can prove it to yourself by tying some mono to a tree and pulling gently, then doing the same with braid. It doesn’t take much strain to change the ‘feel’ of a line, especially on a long cast. Dragging a lure on bottom with say 40’ tight line, the difference in feel between mono and braid of the same diameter is dramatic.
For the OP – if you think the ‘stiffness’ of your setup is costing you fish, you might also consider a less powerful, longer, and/or slower action rod (that’s still sufficient for hook setting).
The “shock absorption” of a rod is consistent through the fight, whereas the actual linear stretch of a “stretchy” line depends on how much line you have out. The most stretch occurs at the start of the fight (hook set) which is exactly when you don’t want it. Closer to the boat, when line stretch would be more desirable, the “stretchiness” is reduced because the fish is on a shorter leash.
Picked up a slightly longer and slower action rod! I am going to stay with braid on this set up to see if just the rod change helps but still want to try a nylon line on another set up with a faster action to see the difference.
WRB reply :
On 3/4/2017 at 9:57 PM, fissure_man said:
This is not true at all. You can prove it to yourself by tying some mono to a tree and pulling gently, then doing the same with braid. It doesn’t take much strain to change the ‘feel’ of a line, especially on a long cast. Dragging a lure on bottom with say 40’ tight line, the difference in feel between mono and braid of the same diameter is dramatic.
For the OP – if you think the ‘stiffness’ of your setup is costing you fish, you might also consider a less powerful, longer, and/or slower action rod (that’s still sufficient for hook setting).
The “shock absorption” of a rod is consistent through the fight, whereas the actual linear stretch of a “stretchy” line depends on how much line you have out. The most stretch occurs at the start of the fight (hook set) which is exactly when you don’t want it. Closer to the boat, when line stretch would be more desirable, the “stretchiness” is reduced because the fish is on a shorter leash.
Instead using your "feel" use a didgital or spring scale and mark the line using a sharpie 36" apart and apply known force until you see the line stretch, them write down the force in pounds and the measure the amount the line moved. After doing some factual testing you can make statement if true or false!
What you "feel" as stretch is actually coeffient of drag, the line trying to cut through water creates a bow in the line.
Tom
On 3/4/2017 at 9:56 PM, PatrickKnight said:
I was looking at lines with a diameter of around .010 to .011, I learned a while ago its more important to look at diameter than lb test.
Sunline Defier Armillo Nylon 11 lb test is .0108 dia, low stretch for mono and good abrasion resistance...but expensive.
Tom
wdp reply :
If I start losing a lotta fish, 1st thing I look at is my hooks. 99% of the time, my hooks are dull & time to change em out.
Team9nine reply :
On 3/4/2017 at 11:47 PM, WRB said:Instead using your "feel" use a didgital or spring scale and mark the line using a sharpie 36" apart and apply known force until you see the line stretch, them write down the force in pounds and the measure the amount the line moved. After doing some factual testing you can make statement if true or false!
What you "feel" as stretch is actually coeffient of drag, the line trying to cut through water creates a bow in the line.
Tom
I'm going to split the difference and say you're both right (you and FM) 
I've marked and tested more than my fair share of line types, and in many cases, literally ounces of pressure is all that is required to start seeing line stretch. That said, having to overcome line bowing underwater is also a very real thing and could certainly make someone think their line is stretching a lot when in reality, it isn't.
Berkley's former engineer (Paul Johnson) has written extensively on the subject of line properties. Well worth tracking down some of his stuff for those wanting to know the real scoop on line mechanics. Line diameter plays a big role in real world applications as does line distance when it comes to the amount of force that actually gets applied in any given scenario.
WRB reply :
This isn't rocket science, simply look up the properties of Nylon, the material that all monofilament line is made from. You have tensil strength, yeild strength and elongation.
The property that is under discussion is yeild strength, that is the force that starts a material to move under pressure..it yields. Elasticity comes under elongation is the amount the material can move and return to it's original size before failing at it's ultimate strength.
plastic has a property call creep, moving under pressure over time, that property also affects knot strength and stretch.
I tested materials, including extruded filaments, using a Instron machine that records elongation and strength properties for decades.
Tom
fissure_man reply :
In most uses, ‘yield strength’ refers to the stress level which causes the beginning of plastic deformation. Measurable elastic strain occurs before the onset of plastic yielding in all but the stiffest and most brittle materials (or 'squishy' things like play dough). It is well known that nylon mono fishing line can withstand substantial elastic deformation before ‘yielding’ permanently.
Line drag and having a bow in your line does affect ‘feel,’ but that’s why I specified matching diameters, or pulling on line tied to a tree. If you drag a jig across your lawn with mono vs braid you can clearly feel the difference, with negligible line resistance in the air. I actually just did this to make sure I’m not losing my mind 
At stresses below its yield strength, mono fishing line behaves more or less elastically under tension, where stress (force/area) is related to strain (stretch per unit length) by an elastic modulus (stress/strain). If you’re saying that no stretch occurs in mono line before plastic yielding, you’d be saying that it’s infinitely stiff or completely non-elastic; neither is true.
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