Berkley Vanish vs. Seaguar STS 2024
govallis reply :
I have been using Vanish 8# as a leader and got much more bites especially from larger largemouth while a 10# Pline C21 leader would not get bite at all or only from smaller LM's.
However, this Vanish may break at anytime for no apparent reason. Yes, I know knots.
So, I bought a roll of Seaguar STS 10#, because for the same 100/110 yards it cost only $1-2 more than the Vanish and all reviews are positive - no unexpected breakage. I picked 10# instead of 8#, because I want a stronger leader to get hooked fish out of weeds more easily.
I measured its diameter, 0.28mm, exactly the same as the Vanish. I did a comparison test, they did break at the same level of drag. This is no surprise; I have done many such tests with many lines and I found that it is the measured diameter that determines the actual strength, regardless what's on the label about its LB and mm/in.
Here comes to my question: is the 8# Vanish actually a 10# line, or the 10# STS is actually a 8# line?
I read some posts that claim the 8# STS still breaks but 10# won't. So either STS is 2LB less than its label, or all other brands label 2LB less to give people a false feeling of a stronger line. Most fishermen won't bother to measure the diameter.
I always measure because I want to be sure that the leader breaks before the main line does so I won't lose the bobber, swivel and etc. Also to avoid lots of retying by simply replacing the leader. Most lines are much thicker and stronger than their labeled LB and mm, so far only Pline Floroclear has an accurate label on mm, all others including STS are marked thinner.
Should I go 12# STS? I worry that I might get less bites due to a more thick/visible line. The 12# is listed to be 0.31 mm which means 0.32 - 0.33 in real life based on my experience, significantly thicker than 0.28 of a typical 8 lb.
WRB reply :
Line diameter is usually listed on the line spool, if not TW tabulates line diameter for most line.
Anytime you tie 2 knots you double your potential for knot failure and FC has poor knot strength to start with. Berkely Vanish reputation for poor knot strength and low abrasion resistance is well deserved.
Tom
OnthePotomac reply :
I have not used Vanish, but you cannot go wrong with a Seagaur product. My favorite in Seaguar InvizX 15lb, which is only .013" in diameter
papajoe222 reply :
On 7/12/2018 at 1:54 AM, govallis said:I measured its diameter, 0.28mm, exactly the same as the Vanish. I did a comparison test, they did break at the same level of drag. This is no surprise; I have done many such tests with many lines and I found that it is the measured diameter that determines the actual strength, regardless what's on the label about its LB and mm/in.
Line diameter has more to do with the material used. As an example, Trilene Cat Max is thicker than XL in the same lb. test. They're both mono, just made with different materials. My guess is the STS has less strength because of its composition, but you may be correct about companies listing a lower lb. test.
Arlo Smithereen reply :
Berkley Vanish vs anything else.....I'd go with anything else
govallis reply :
On 7/12/2018 at 4:35 AM, papajoe222 said:Line diameter has more to do with the material used. As an example, Trilene Cat Max is thicker than XL in the same lb. test. They're both mono, just made with different materials. My guess is the STS has less strength because of its composition, but you may be correct about companies listing a lower lb. test.
Did you measure their diameters or just read the listed values? Based on my experience, the listed lb and mm/in could mean anything, should be for very basic reference only. If you want the very right line for your very specific usage, you must measure its actual lb and mm to settle down your choice.
Based on my numerous measurements and tests with different lines of different materials, I can safely say that a line's actual strength is primarily determined by its measured diameter. Again, I'm saying "measured diameter" and "measure lb". Listed values mean nothing, or anything.
If people say a line is very strong, it means I should go 12# or even 6# of that line if what I need is 15#, because that line has mostly much smaller listed lb and/or mm. Yo-Zuri Hybrid is the best example; the 6# line has a measured diameter of a normal 12#.
Materials, or quality, might have more things to do with stiffness and durability, etc.
roadwarrior reply :
Seaguar Red Label is an excellent choice for inexpensive fluorocarbon leader.
Log Catcher reply :
I would have to agree with roadwarrior about this. I have used 8lb. Red Label for years as as a leader on my spinning rods and have not had any problems with it.
lmbfisherman reply :
Red Label - Seaguar, get it, worth it for leader material. I think it's the best bargain priced Floro out there, maybe only BPS Floro when on sale will match it.
Regarding Vanish, horrible line and I won't use it ever again because I lost many fish to break offs.
Regarding Pline C21, I think that is all in your head and confidence level. No offense, frankly I have no issues catching fish with hi vis line either like white or yellow braid straight. Maybe one day I'll fish a finesse technique with the hi vis braided lines and see if I can't "catch fish". I have no problems using it with a jig or T rigged. That being said I will fish to conditions that fit best. If I know there are a lot of abrasive cover why I use floro. Also using braid as main line with leaders is cheaper in the long run.
Beetlebz reply :
I gotta go against the grain here. I used to throw all power pro last season before I discovered the magic of yozuri hybrid. I used red label for weeks as a leader, I had a ton of inexplicable knot failures and break offs not at the knot. Even on fresh leader. I thought I was doing something wrong until I switched to abrasx and all of my problems went away. I lost what I swear was a 9lber last year and swore to never use red label again. I had these issues on 3 separate spools, 6lb 8lb and 15lb.
Leader knots were double uni, Alberto, and FG. All had unexplained failures. Lure end knots were improved clinch or palomar, had issues with both of those too but not as many.
Currently I'm using suffix 30lb with a YZH 8lb leader and J-braid X8 15lb with a YZH 6lb leader. Alberto knots for the leaders and improved clinch for the lures. Zero problems (except for the Albert knot on the J-Braid but two extra wraps of the knot cured that)
The moral of the story, I had a mountain of problems with red label.
Arlo Smithereen reply :
On 7/12/2018 at 10:57 PM, lmbfisherman said:
I have no issues catching fish with hi vis line either like white or yellow braid straight. Maybe one day I'll fish a finesse technique with the hi vis braided lines and see if I can't "catch fish". I have no problems using it with a jig or T rigged. That being said I will fish to conditions that fit best. If I know there are a lot of abrasive cover why I use floro. Also using braid as main line with leaders is cheaper in the long run.
When my daughter comes fishing with me, she uses a spinning rod with hi-vis yellow 10# braid, no leader to fish weightless senkos. She catches plenty, consistently.
govallis reply :
I never feel the need of a fluorocarbon leader until I fished a clear lake. I have decided to use fluorocarbon leader only.
All my local stores run out the 12# STS, this makes me wonder, it might be indeed the optimal size.
I don't like braid. For main line, I've settled down to C21 12#, spinning rod. Zero issue for the past 6 months, I always use a tiny swivel, otherwise the line will twist and bird net.
Glaucus reply :
For such an unpopular line, I've never had a single problem with Vanish. I check my line frequently and replace leaders as needed, rather than trying to stretch it as far as it can go and thus risk breakage. I've never had Vanish just snap or break at the knot. Until it proves me wrong, 10 bucks for leader line is what I'm going to stick with.
govallis reply :
On 7/12/2018 at 10:57 PM, lmbfisherman said:Red Label - Seaguar, get it, worth it for leader material. I think it's the best bargain priced Floro out there, maybe only BPS Floro when on sale will match it.
Regarding Vanish, horrible line and I won't use it ever again because I lost many fish to break offs.
Regarding Pline C21, I think that is all in your head and confidence level. No offense, frankly I have no issues catching fish with hi vis line either like white or yellow braid straight. Maybe one day I'll fish a finesse technique with the hi vis braided lines and see if I can't "catch fish". I have no problems using it with a jig or T rigged. That being said I will fish to conditions that fit best. If I know there are a lot of abrasive cover why I use floro. Also using braid as main line with leaders is cheaper in the long run.
Ordered the 12# red label from Walmart for $10.59 200 yds. This is actually cheaper than Vanish.
It's not a confidence thing, in my head there is no word of "confidence". I consider myself kind of a scientific fisherman who measures each and every line he touches. I have done enough tests between the 10# C21 and 8# Vanish to get the conclusion. For lakes that are not so clear, the 10# C21 is all fine.
If the 12# red label will work out well, it'll be the leader and my only leader.
FishTank reply :
Red Label is good stuff. I have tried the 10lb and 15lb both worked well. I liked the 15lb the best and I definitely liked it better than Vanish but not as much as Invizx.
Bluebasser86 reply :
On 7/12/2018 at 7:56 AM, Arlo Smithereen said:Berkley Vanish vs anything else.....I'd go with anything else
Exactly this, anything but Vanish, sewing thread maybe.
MickD reply :
On 7/12/2018 at 11:58 PM, Beetlebz said:I gotta go against the grain here. I used to throw all power pro last season before I discovered the magic of yozuri hybrid. I used red label for weeks as a leader, I had a ton of inexplicable knot failures and break offs not at the knot. Even on fresh leader. I thought I was doing something wrong until I switched to abrasx and all of my problems went away. I lost what I swear was a 9lber last year and swore to never use red label again. I had these issues on 3 separate spools, 6lb 8lb and 15lb.
Leader knots were double uni, Alberto, and FG. All had unexplained failures. Lure end knots were improved clinch or palomar, had issues with both of those too but not as many.
Currently I'm using suffix 30lb with a YZH 8lb leader and J-braid X8 15lb with a YZH 6lb leader. Alberto knots for the leaders and improved clinch for the lures. Zero problems (except for the Albert knot on the J-Braid but two extra wraps of the knot cured that)
The moral of the story, I had a mountain of problems with red label.
From my experience the FG is not suitable for leaders of 6 and 8 pound tests, and I've had unraveling failures with the Alberto at all pound tests. The double uni should be very reliable at the lower pound tests and usable for almost any rod guide since those low pound tests don't make a very large knot (speaking about the reliability of the knot, not the leader).
I find it hard to believe that Vanish has survived as long as it has. Seems like it was about 35 years ago when my son's best friend said it was named because the fish vanish when hooked on it.
burrows reply :
If you’re gonna buy floro don’t go cheap spend the extra 5 to 10 bucks and use the good stuff I use pline tactical when using floro.
Seagar abraze X will probably serve you best. As for a comparison between Vanish and red label? Go with red label.
MickD reply :
On 7/12/2018 at 2:37 AM, WRB said:Line diameter is usually listed on the line spool, if not TW tabulates line diameter for most line.
Anytime you tie 2 knots you double your potential for knot failure and FC has poor knot strength to start with. Berkely Vanish reputation for poor knot strength and low abrasion resistance is well deserved.
Tom
Where do I find this line diameter tabulation? thx
burrows reply :
On 7/15/2018 at 7:44 PM, MickD said:Where do I find this line diameter tabulation? thx
On the tw website
MickD reply :
I've been to the TW website and looked at a number of lines, but do not find diameter specified. Did I just pick lines for which there are no diameter data?
govallis reply :
When you look at the listed diameter, on the label or on the web, keep it in mind: the value is usually less than actual. Floroclear is the only one with accurate listed diameters.
I usually buy 3 packs, such as 10#, 12# and 15#, and keep the 0.33 mm one and return the other two. I've found that 0.33 is the best for main line - strong enough and still thin enough to manage. For leader, I keep the 0.31 mm, it'll break before the main line when snagged and strong to bend the hook to get the lure back.
Also, don't look at the in numbers. For example, 0.011 in could mean anything between 0.0110 to 0.0119, i.e., 0.28 mm to 0.30 mm! That's a 2 lb variation, so if you are looking for a 8lb line you may end up with a 10lb.
WRB reply :
On 7/15/2018 at 7:53 PM, MickD said:I've been to the TW website and looked at a number of lines, but do not find diameter specified. Did I just pick lines for which there are no diameter data?
TW/line/mfr/line type, then read more, a table should be shown on the right side the page below discription details. What line mfr are you trying to find on TW that didn't have diameter tabulated by # test?
Tom
MickD reply :
I was trying to compare Power Pro with a Hitena line. I got the data from the Power Pro web site. Hitena .006 for 21 pound test, Power Pro .009 for 20.
I'll try the site again, thanks, Mick
Just found it, should have seen the "read more" before. Thanks, Mick
govallis reply :
Found a roll of Seaguar STS 12# in a store in a nearby city. As expected, its diameter is 0.32mm (0.31 on label). I did some tests, It beaten C21 10# and SouthBend 12# (both are 0.31 mm), but lost to C21 12# (0.33 mm). This is as perfect as I want from this invisible leader in terms of strength - breaks after the C21 10# or SB 12# that I use to tie treble hooks to expensive lures and before the C21 12# main line.
During the tests, I noticed that the STS must be extremely abrasion resistant. After it beaten the C21 10#, it got some fray on its loop knots, but this shabby segment still beaten the SB 12#.
govallis reply :
Received the 12# Red Label from Walmart. It has exactly the same diameter as the STS, 0.32 mm, and also labeled as the same as 0.31mm/0.012in. They feel exactly the same too, in terms of stiffness. They behaved exactly the same as well in my strength test: beaten the C21 10# and then SB 12#, but lost to C21 12#; after won C21, there are some fray on one loop knot.
For a 18" leader, at least, I don't see apparent reason to pay more than the Red Label. I'll be using it from now on. If it'll break due to abrasion, then I'll give STS a try. On a forum, one guy claims that even a pike cannot break STS, but he never tried Red Label though, only Blue Label.
govallis reply :
Used the Red Label as a leader for two days and landed a dozen largemouth, each is about 18"/3lbs. No breakage, nice, but now the first 1.5" of the leader become white and slightly rough. I'm going to switch to STS and see if it'll be as easy to become white.
govallis reply :
Used STS leader for the whole morning and caught about a dozen LM (a lot more escaped). The first 1.5" did not become white nor rough, but there are two nicks. So, STS is more abrasion resistant but still needs to be replaced frequently. I'll keep both and use STS for tough conditions such as river. Although STS is priced higher than the Red Label, but in the end it may cost the same or even less because it needs to be replaced less frequently. Either way, no more reason to buy Vanish again, because it is actually priced higher than Red Label and only $1.5 less than STS. Note that 8# Vanish equals to 10# Seaguar on actual diameter and strength.
FishDewd reply :
I like the Berkley Vanish for one use and one use only... as the weight leader for a spinshot drop shot rig. I like it cause it'll break with a firm snap of the rod, leaving the hook untouched. Tie on a new line with a new weight stopper knot, slide in a new dropshot weight and rock on! With that said, I don't have any issue with it and knots. But yeah for actual fluorocarbon leaders for every other use... the seaguar red label has treated me well. It holds knots well, I can use the same knots on it that I would for braid, mono, or co-polymer. Never had any issues with slippage. For the money it's my #1 choice right now, although I know there may be slightly better options. As a mainline I hate FC... but it's very useful as a leader for sure. But yeah... compared to any Vanish, in terms of stength and abrasion resistance... no contest!
govallis reply :
Now I have been using the 12# red label as an 18" leader for couple months and caught numerous bass and other fish. Still using the very first 18", never broke, never needed to retie. When I'm gonna to use up the 200 yds? Wish Seaguar sell a 20 yd pack for $2. Never needed to use the STS either. What a "waste of money"!
burrows reply :
200 yards of red label is only ten bucks ? At my Walmart?
govallis reply :
Red Label 12# at Walmart 200 yd for $10.87 free S&H for store pickup.
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