A Flurocarbon Misconception 2024

Green Trout reply :

A lot of anglers believe Flurocarbon has less stretch then Monofilament which intern makes it more sensitive. I thought this until I read something on it the other day. I read that Flurocarbon has just as much stretch as mono, but it is more sensitive because it is denser then mono. Your thoughts on this?

Bruce424 reply :

Oh man I think it's definitely true. Probly not AS much stretch as mono. But pretty much. Cause its denser probly the reason for abrasion resistance too.

That's why once the spool I have is done I probly won't buy fluoro again until money is on the line in clearer water situations. Hah. Just too expensive for me I think.

A-Jay reply :

The discussions revolving around the characteristics and benefits (or lack there of) of Fluorocarbon line have gone round & round and will no doubt continue to do so.

The proponents of the line often relay information describing how having one of the better / higher quality fluorocarbons is a good way to help ensure an angler actually gets the best it has to offer; Getting what you pay for.

Detractors, which I am one, are not impressed with what the line has to offer. Being able to get the same or better results with a good mono offers little reason to "Upgrade" to Fluorocarbon.

That's my story & I'm sticking to it.

A-Jay

.ghoti. reply :

Every time I hear somebody claim fluorocarbon line has less stretch than mono, one thought comes to mind.

Behold the power of propaganda. Uh, excuse me, I meant to say marketing.

jtesch reply :

I believe this is an impossible argument. Their are such massive differences in the performance and qualities of different brands of fluoro's that it makes it impossible to just say "fluoro is better" and the same can be said for mono

J Francho reply :

Stretch?

Wet or dry?

Treated it untreated?

With how much force?

What's the measurement - inches of stretch per lb.?

How much line?

There's many other variables too.

Stretch, as its perceived while fishing, is not a linear sensation. Some lines give up a bit with little pressure before locking in. Others are the opposite. Some will deform, or stretch out. These are all characteristics to look at and consider when comparing lines - even from the same material.

One thing - sensitivity has more to do with density and how a line transmits vibration. Braid has almost zero stretch, but unless it's held taught has almost zero vibration transmission. Fluorocarbon is on the other end of the spectrum, with its density transmitting vibration on a semi slack line. I found when teaching fishing to kayakers, the ones that felt braid was more sensitive were tip watchers, whereas others were bite feelers.

tomustang reply :

The retail boxes are misleading (among other products), but also pro's rep it for sales too.

Cgrinder reply :

Stretch varies from line to line. You can't lump fluoro, nylon monofilament, and copolymer in to three groups and call it a day.

Catt reply :

For this Cajun sensitivity depends on who is holding the rod!

J Francho reply :

Sensitivity? Well, I'm a delicate flower.

A-Jay reply :

On 4/23/2015 at 4:51 AM, J Francho said:
Sensitivity? Well, I'm a delicate flower.

So J, do the bare feet help with sensitivity ? (Avatar)

A-Jay

J Francho reply :

I'm wearing a pair of flip flops.

Montanaro reply :

Hippie...

K_Mac reply :

I have come to the conclusion that I don't give a rip about stretch when it comes to fluorocarbon. I like the way it works. That is all.

Dwight Hottle reply :

On 4/23/2015 at 6:05 AM, J Francho said:
I'm wearing a pair of flip flops.

Looks like toe thongs to me J.

JGBassinAL reply :

On 4/23/2015 at 1:59 AM, tomustang said:
The retail boxes are misleading (among other products), but also pro's rep it for sales too.

Pro's rep it because it's what they use almost exclusively, not just to promote sales.

FryDog62 reply :

In all my stretch tests, I have yet to find a fluorocarbon line that doesn't stretch more than a mono or co-polymer of the same pound test. If you argue that non fluorocarbon lines absorb water and become stretchier over time, then buy Yo-Zuri Hybrid that has significantly less stretch than 100% fluorocarbon and does not absorb water.

Ozark_Basser reply :

On 4/23/2015 at 10:30 AM, FryDog62 said:
In all my stretch tests, I have yet to find a fluorocarbon line that doesn't stretch more than a mono or co-polymer of the same pound test. If you argue that non fluorocarbon lines absorb water and become stretchier over time, then buy Yo-Zuri Hybrid that has significantly less stretch than 100% fluorocarbon and does not absorb water.

Does fluoro return to its original shape after it has been stretched though? Mono seems to be a lot more elastic.

FryDog62 reply :

Many of the fluorocarbon lines snapped in the stretch tests, and even those that didn't turned into a stretched and coiled up slinky. The mono and co-polymers for the most part went back to their original shape.

Don't get me wrong, there are a few applications I will still use fluorocarbon (as a leader on braid, or when drop-shotting in gin clear water) but IMO it should never be marketed as a low stretch line.

A-Jay reply :

The need for lighter line when fishing in clear water for pressured or spooky bass is well documented and generally believed to be a fairly common & effective practice.

Presentations like the drop shot for example, really do come into their on when using 8, 6 & even 4 pound line; and some feel the need to even go lower than that.

Since I do not fish any habitat where I would require the advertised super abrasion resistance that fluorocarbon provides, the only other advertised characteristic of the line I could benefit from here is this magic "Invisibility".

I have yet to find a situation where a bass would eat a drop shot bait on 4 or 6 lb fluorocarbon but would not eat the same bait on 4 or 6 lb mono. ( and I use braid & a green, clear & smoke mono leader for drop shot)

I must be fishing for far sighted bass because they couldn't seem to care less about the wispy little strand of 4 lb line attached to that bait - they just suck it right up anyway.

Your results may vary.

A-Jay

FryDog62 reply :

I don't disagree with anything you stated A-Jay. Much of the advantages of fluorocarbon are exaggerated, but at 2x the cost, line manufacturers will continue to promote over mono.

FryDog62 reply :

Its been posted previously, but here is the stretch test I conducted recently that seems to indicate that fluorocarbon is NOT low stretch:

I used a 12 foot piece of each line and hung an 8 pound weight to see how much each line stretched in inches. Below are the results - least stretch to most stretch.

All Lines Tested

Trilene XT (Mono) 21-1/4 inches of stretch
Yo-Zuri Hybrid (Co-polymer) 22-1/8
Sufix Seige (Mono) 22-5/8
P-Line CX Premium (Co-polymer) 23-1/2
Maxima Treazure (Co-polymer) 24-1/2
Trilene XL (Mono) 24-3/4
Tectan Superior (Mono) 25-7/8
Berkley Sensation (Mono) 26-1/8
Sunline Sniper (Fluorocarbon) 26-1/2
Gamma Touch (Fluorocarbon) 29-1/4
Original Blue Stren (Mono) 29-3/4
Gamma Edge (Fluorocarbon) 31-0**
Bass Pro XPS (Fluorocarbon) 31-3/4*
Stren 100% (Fluorocast) 31-3/4*
Seaguar Tatsu (Fluorocarbon) 32-3/4
P-Line 100% (Fluorocarbon) 33-0*
Seaguar Invizx (Fluorocarbon) 36-0**
Berkley 100% (Fluorocarbon) 38-3/8

*Line snapped once and was re-tested

** Line snapped twice - length estimated

Broken Down By Line Type

3 Co-polymer lines average stretch: 23.4 inches
6 Monofilament lines average stretch: 25.1 inches
9 fluorocarbon lines average stretch: 32.2 inches

Line Diameter

Line diameter can have an effect on stretch, but 9 of these lines all had the same diameter (.009 inches). Those lines are broken out below. The overall results are similar for the 3 different line types.

P-Line CX Premium (Co-polymer) 23-1/2
Maxima Treazure (Co-polymer) 24-1/2
Tectan Superior (Mono) 25-7/8
Berkley Sensation (Mono) 26-1/8
Sunline Sniper (Fluorocarbon) 26-1/2
Gamma Touch (Fluorocarbon) 29-1/4
Bass Pro XPS (Fluorocarbon) 31-3/4*
Seaguar Tatsu (Fluorocarbon) 32-3/4
Seaguar Invizx (Fluorocarbon) 36-0**

Overall observations

Newer Co-polymer lines being marketed specifically as “low stretch” for the most part seem to be accurate.
Fluorocarbon tends to be the line with most stretch.
Monofilament tends to be somewhere in the middle, although those with a thicker diameter (i.e. Trilene XT .011 and Sufix Seige .010) did stretch less.
Line diameter may have an effect on the stretch of certain lines, but overall, lines of the same diameter seem to reflect that Co-polymer and Monofilament lines still stretch less than Fluorocarbon.
Fluorocarbon lines tend to break easier when stretched to their maximum breaking strength. In addition, once stretched it deforms from it original state, whereas mono/co-poly returns to its original form.
If you are concerned non-fluorocarbon lines absorb water and stretch more over time, try one of the low stretch lines like Yo-Zuri Hybrid that don't absorb water.

CRANKENSTIEN reply :

Wow. I didn't know it was that much. I am a big fan of pline cxx. I here alot about yo zuri co. Is it better. Maybe I should start that thread.

J Francho reply :

What size line and was the line wet?

FishTank reply :

It may be a few years old but TT has a great article about Fluorocarbon.

http://www.tackletour.com/reviewfluorocarbon2.html

Cgrinder reply :

Maybe it's time to try and love Yo Zuri Hybrid again.

FryDog62 reply :

On 4/23/2015 at 11:37 AM, CRANKENSTIEN said:
Wow. I didn't know it was that much. I am a big fan of pline cxx. I here alot about yo zuri co. Is it better. Maybe I should start that thread.

I'm using both lines now. Yo-Zuri is a slightly thicker, tougher line. CX is thinner and probably better for more finesse applications.

FryDog62 reply :

On 4/23/2015 at 12:01 PM, J Francho said:
What size line and was the line wet?

All the lines were 8 pound test and were dry for the testing. I think the jury is out whether wet lines would make a big difference but maybe some. If you are concerned about absorbing water, try Yozuri Hybrid which does not soak up water or UV.

J Francho reply :

Well, line is fished in water, so I'd expect a valid study on line stretch would address this. What does UV have to do with it? I suppose if you're going to measure stretch after UV degradation. That seems like more than you're willing to look at, since you didn't even test them wet. Do you work for Yo-Zuri?

FryDog62 reply :

On 4/23/2015 at 9:02 PM, J Francho said:
Well, line is fished in water, so I'd expect a valid study on line stretch would address this. What does UV have to do with it? I suppose if you're going to measure stretch after UV degradation. That seems like more than you're willing to look at, since you didn't even test them wet. Do you work for Yo-Zuri?

First, ...no I don't work for Yo-Zuri and any line manufacturer. I'm just an avid amateur that has been confused by all the different lines - and claims the manufacturers (and pro's) make regarding lines. I read reviews, Tackle Tour, etc.. and just decided I needed to conduct some independent tests on my own with the lines I use.

I think you are potentially right on the water absorption question - would mono stretch more over time when wet... Probably, yes? But would Trilene XT at 21 inches stretch then stretch more than its cousin Berkley 100% fluorocarbon at 38 inches? I think there would be some subtle variations but I'm not convinced it would be that much. Next winter when I get bored I may conduct some tests with lines that have been soaked first.

I did point out Yo-Zuri Hybrid as a potential choice since they at least market their line that it does not absorb water. However, there may be others worth trying too. I wonder if some of the "tough coat" monos like Trilene XT, or Sufix Siege would resist water absorption.

More stuff to test I guess next year. My wife thinks I'm nuts hanging string and weights from our vaulted ceiling. I guess thats what cabin fever will do to a guy who lives through loooong winters in Minnesota!

J Francho reply :

You could also spool up the line, fish it, and arrive at a truly informed opinion as to how the line works for you. At the very least, any testing should duplicate fishing situations.

Line choice is VERY personal, and it's difficult to quantify with data exactly what characteristics make a line better. If you've used quite a few lines, you can sometimes relate their qualities to other lines, and communicate similarities, but even then it's a crap shoot whether the person getting the advice will agree.

Personally, I'd rather take 50 anglers of various skill level,and measure the hookset force exerted using various lines. Not just the mean force either, the force applied throughout the hookset, and graphed. I bet you'd see some interesting data.

FryDog62 reply :

I should add that when you really stretch lines to their outer limits (8 pound weight on 8 lb test lines) you really see the great variations in lines. I know, most people aren't catching 8 pound fish on a regular basis - so would these tests be more real world with a 4 pound weight? Maybe, but I think the measurements would all be closer together and therefore maybe not as helpful in trying to distinguish one line versus another. And in this case, I think it was also helpful to test strength of the lines when maxed out. Some lines couldn't handle the pressure and snapped.

J Francho reply :

Sorry, I edited my post while you posted.

Quick add about hookset force - it's likely peaking out at much higher than the break strength of the line.

FryDog62 reply :

"You could also spool up the line, fish it, and arrive at a truly informed opinion as to how the line works for you. Line choice is VERY personal, and it's difficult to quantify with data exactly what characteristics make a line better."

Exactly its all personal preference so thankfully there are a couple hundred different line options out there for people to try...

And personal experience is what led me to testing various lines. I heard KVD state more than a couple times that XPS is low stretch, so that was my first fluorocarbon purchase. On a smallmouth trip to Rainy Lake with a friend I couldn't believe how many fish I missed on long casts where I couldn't set the hook fast enough. It was like setting the hook with a rubber band. My fishing partner was catching plenty of fish and having a lot of fun with my misfortune. Later that day I switched over to Trilene XT and there was a huge difference. Don't think I missed another fish the next 3 days (and the XT was very soaked in water).

Since then I have been in search of a good fluorocarbon with low stretch and that was the first time I thought I need to test these lines independently to back up what I thought I was experiencing first hand.

J Francho reply :

You may also want to look into line treatments, specifically KVD L&L. I'm also testing one by Batson that is amazing.

CRANKENSTIEN reply :

I can make 40 yard cast with cxx 10 lb with cranks and swimming big t rigged worms and i never have a problem with hook ups.

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A Flurocarbon Misconception 2024

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