30 Lb Braid Ideal For Topwater 2024
nwibass reply :
I will be throwing gunfish, pop-r's, spook jr's and lunker plunkers. Is 30# braid without a leader ideal? wondering if the fish will see it or not? because it's on topwater, I am used to useing flouro or copolymer line for topwater, so i dont know? Thanks!
SirSnookalot reply :
The issue isn't the visual, it's getting the braid wrapped around the hooks and that can be a nightmare to untangle. I always use leaders with braid, since I use spinning I never fish heavier than 15#.
nwibass reply :
On 1/17/2012 at 1:37 AM, SirSnookalot said:The issue isn't the visual, it's getting the braid wrapped around the hooks and that can be a nightmare to untangle. I always use leaders with braid, since I use spinning I never fish heavier than 15#.
could i leader it with a swivel, because I hate tying knots, I was hoping I wouldnt even need a leader.
NCbassmaster4Life reply :
The leader would be your best bet, what kind of swivel are you talking about?
nwibass reply :
On 1/17/2012 at 1:55 AM, NCbassmaster4Life said:The leader would be your best bet, what kind of swivel are you talking about?
just a small barrel swivel.
NCbassmaster4Life reply :
sounds good, you can use a 10#-14# test that's not braided for your leader..what kind of line would depend on what your more comfortable with?
SirSnookalot reply :
I use a #7 barrel swivel
nwibass reply :
On 1/17/2012 at 2:08 AM, NCbassmaster4Life said:sounds good, you can use a 10#-14# test that's not braided for your leader..what kind of line would depend on what your more comfortable with?
I would use a 12# copolmer leader with a size 14 or 16 swivel.
nwibass reply :
and about a 16 inch leader
deep reply :
What sort of punkers?
LgMouthGambler reply :
I fish a Spook straight to braid. Never had a problem with it wraping around the trebles.
nwibass reply :
Lunker plunkers 6 inch
A-Rob reply :
I throw those on mono, aound 15#. I throw my frogs on 50 to 65# braid.
I don't think its a visual issue, I just like the extra stretch and floating line for trebled top waters. Braid on the frog for cutting thru the pads and weed
Anyways that's just how I do it, definitely doesn't mean it is the right way or only way. Good luck dude!
Mike L reply :
I use 30# power pro on a medium action Shimano Teramar inshore rod for all top water. Poppers, scum and spo frogs, spooks etc.
No leader.
Mike
jkarol24 reply :
For walk-the-dog baits, a stiffer mono or co polymer leader is very important part of your setup. Not only does it foul the front hook less, but the mono will push back on the lure, forcing the head of the bait out further to the side making walking the dog much easier. To be honest, it really doesn't matter all that much as to how heavy your leader is, so long as your comfortable that you wont break it. I've used both 12 lb big game mono and 17 lb p-line co polymer with much success. Another quick tip is to then tie your leader to the bait with a loop knot, you will get more action out of it. You don't need a long leader, maybe 2 feet or less. I have it so the leader to mainline knot is just outside the tip guide on my rod while casting so i don't have to cast it through the guides.
deep reply :
I'd do away with the snap (I don't like snaps or swivels in general), and tie it on without the leader. A leader is not worth bothering with if abrasion resistance is not an issue IMO.
Btw, I use 80 lb braid when I throw punkers. I like the wood punkers way better than the plastic ones too..
EDIT: 80 lb braid with 25 lb mono leader: my weedless hudd setup
dodgeguy reply :
if you're fishing baitcast use at least 50 lb test.the leader is not needed.use either fireline braid or sufix 832.
nwibass reply :
On 1/17/2012 at 7:54 AM, deep said:I'd do away with the snap (I don't like snaps or swivels in general), and tie it on without the leader. A leader is not worth bothering with if abrasion resistance is not an issue IMO.
Btw, I use 80 lb braid when I throw punkers. I like the wood punkers way better than the plastic ones too..
EDIT: 80 lb braid with 25 lb mono leader: my weedless hudd setup
I will be throwing 80# braid on my alabama rig setup... What is the name of the wooden plunkers?
deep reply :
On 1/17/2012 at 11:02 AM, nwibass said:What is the name of the wooden plunkers?
G1 punker I guess? Since the molded ones are called G2 punkers.. It's "punker" by the way, not a "plunker".
nwibass reply :
On 1/17/2012 at 11:12 AM, deep said:G1 punker I guess? Since the molded ones are called G2 punkers.. It's "punker" by the way, not a "plunker".
Lol I have always called it a plunker, thought it sounded better..
lmoore reply :
The heavier braid, the worse actioin you'll get from topwaters. Braid sinks, so it puts downward pressure on the front of your bait. Mono would be "ideal" for topwaters because it floats and (as mentioned) actually puts very small upward force on the front of the bait, which allows it to glide along the water better. Mono also has the advantage of stretch, which can help keep from losing fish when using treble hooks. If you are more confident in briad, use the smallest diamter you feel comfortable using to negate the effects of the weight of the line.
nwibass reply :
On 1/17/2012 at 11:21 AM, lmoore said:The heavier braid, the worse actioin you'll get from topwaters. Braid sinks, so it puts downward pressure on the front of your bait. Mono would be "ideal" for topwaters because it floats and (as mentioned) actually puts very small upward force on the front of the bait, which allows it to glide along the water better. Mono also has the advantage of stretch, which can help keep from losing fish when using treble hooks. If you are more confident in briad, use the smallest diamter you feel comfortable using to negate the effects of the weight of the line.
30# has 8# mono equiv, sounds good to me, I will just buy a spool of some other monos (12# for smaller spooks, etc and 15# for punkers etc)
dodgeguy reply :
braid does not sink it floats.the only braid that sinks is sufix 832 and it takes forever so it dos not hurt topwater action.
rubba bubba reply :
On 1/17/2012 at 11:21 AM, lmoore said:Braid sinks, so it puts downward pressure on the front of your bait.
If by 'braid' you mean 'fluorocarbon', then yes you are correct. 
telmomarques reply :
for punkers, i use my white python filled with big game 20 lbs, for smaller baits like spooks or poppers, i use braid with it
lmoore reply :
On 1/17/2012 at 10:22 PM, rubba bubba said:If by 'braid' you mean 'fluorocarbon', then yes you are correct.
What makes you thnik braid floats?
jkarol24 reply :
On 1/18/2012 at 1:44 AM, lmoore said:What makes you thnik braid floats?
Braid, at least the power pro that i use, deffinantly floats. I know this as the floating line is key for shallow finesse and line watching, but thats another topic... Maybe you are reffering to spiderwire fluoro braid, which does sink... Anyways, i still think you guys are missing the point. A leader for braid on a topwater is not neccesarily about visibility or abrasion, Its the fact that because mono/copolymer is stiffer, it pushes the nose of the bait back, making it easier to walk the dog. As well, it reduces snagging the line with your front treble.
Wayne P. reply :
Imoore, do you even know what braid is???? What makes you think it sinks, tying a weight to it???
Fluorocarbon is NOT a braid, it is a single filament (mono) just like nylon mono, just different properites that are denser so it sinks faster than nylon mono.
The Suffix 832 has one thread of the 8 that is GoreTex. That leaves the other seven threads made out of same material that some other braids are made of (Dyneema) which is a fancy word for plastic--832 floats.
A superline braid is made of Dyneema or Spectra fibers made into threads that are "braided" to make the useable product a fishing line. It is not solid, therefor it has air between the threads--that makes it float.
Any braided line that is advertized as a sinking braid has extra properites added to increase the weight to overcome the natural floating properties due to air space and fiber density.
There is a fluroocarbon braid "Spiderwire Fluoro Braid" but it would have more of a tendency to resist sinking like a single strand fluorocarbon would.
rubba bubba reply :
On 1/18/2012 at 1:44 AM, lmoore said:What makes you thnik braid floats?
Fishing with it and seeing it float.
SirSnookalot reply :
Between the buoyancy of the lure and moving the bait, I don't think the line would have a chance to sink anyway.
baluga reply :
On 1/18/2012 at 3:49 AM, SirSnookalot said:Between the buoyancy of the lure and moving the bait, I don't think the line would have a chance to sink anyway.
Line can sink between pause.
SirSnookalot reply :
On 1/18/2012 at 6:03 AM, baluga said:Line can sink between pause.
On a pause the line will not sink to any significant depth, the lure will always be on top of the water. Even if the line did sink on an extremely long pause, just a normal crank will take up all the slack and have no bearing on the action of the lure.
lmoore reply :
On 1/18/2012 at 3:03 AM, Wayne P. said:Imoore, do you even know what braid is???? What makes you think it sinks, tying a weight to it???
Actually, the reason I made my original reply to this thread is because I was reading an article by Bobby Lane on why he uses braid for flipping, and one of the things mentioned in the article is that braid sinks. I don't ever use braid on topwater, except for frogs, but they are in weeds and pads anyway so no line would ever have a chance to sink. When braid is underwater (flipping/pitching) it will sink, but perhaps thats because it takes on water.
I'm not sure I get your comparison to flourocarbon, but to your identification of braid...braid consists of strands of high density spectra/polyethelene/dyneema. The high density is how they get such good strength out of it, while keeping low diameters. That's why I never questioned the thought of it sinking.
If I was wrong with that, then I was wrong, but at least this time I have good company
http://www.bassedge.com/pages/show/Bobby_Lane_talks_braided_line (This is the article I was reading, to prove I'm not crazy. LOL)
baluga reply :
On 1/18/2012 at 6:52 AM, SirSnookalot said:On a pause the line will not sink to any significant depth, the lure will always be on top of the water. Even if the line did sink on an extremely long pause, just a normal crank will take up all the slack and have no bearing on the action of the lure.
It may not matter to you if it sinks on not but it does matter to those of us who take advantage of the line properties, like if it sinks or not.
Wayne P. reply :
Imoore, my reference about fluorocarbon was concerning the post by rubba bubba "If by 'braid' you mean 'fluorocarbon', then yes you are correct."
Some "pros" state that they use fluorocarbon because it doesn't stretch or has low stretch. That is completely false. It has the stretch characteristics of Berkley XL. One's feelings of how something performs, is sometimes completely opposite of reality. Bobby Lane may have been referencing the Spiderwire Fluorocarbon Braid, but the Dyneema and Spectra braids float unless they are weighted--there are some weighted superlines (do a web search). Do you know what braid he was referring to? Even Fireline floats and that is not a braided superline, it is fused superline.
Nylon monofilament doesn't float either. It will stay on the surface due to surface tension, but once submerged, it will not return to the surface.
All that is simple to test, just get some samples and put them in a jug of water. It ain't rocket science.
1234567 reply :
On 1/17/2012 at 7:54 AM, deep said:I'd do away with the snap (I don't like snaps or swivels in general), and tie it on without the leader. A leader is not worth bothering with if abrasion resistance is not an issue IMO.
Btw, I use 80 lb braid when I throw punkers. I like the wood punkers way better than the plastic ones too..
EDIT: 80 lb braid with 25 lb mono leader: my weedless hudd setup
Same here, at least 65 pound with punkers for me. Also with heavier rods and bigger baits, I've snapped 30 pound test on hook sets several times resulting in lost baits. 30 pound braid is strong, but imo not strong enough for bigger baits and rods.
lmoore reply :
On 1/18/2012 at 7:24 AM, Wayne P. said:Imoore, my reference about fluorocarbon was concerning the post by rubba bubba "If by 'braid' you mean 'fluorocarbon', then yes you are correct."
Some "pros" state that they use fluorocarbon because it doesn't stretch or has low stretch. That is completely false. It has the stretch characteristics of Berkley XL. One's feelings of how something performs, is sometimes completely opposite of reality. Bobby Lane may have been referencing the Spiderwire Fluorocarbon Braid, but the Dyneema and Spectra braids float unless they are weighted--there are some weighted superlines (do a web search). Do you know what braid he was referring to? Even Fireline floats and that is not a braided superline, it is fused superline.
Nylon monofilament doesn't float either. It will stay on the surface due to surface tension, but once submerged, it will not return to the surface.
All that is simple to test, just get some samples and put them in a jug of water. It ain't rocket science.
Oddly enough, the only line he specifically mentions is Berkley Big Game....his backing. lol
I actually was aware of mono sinking. I'm basically a mono and flouro guy, and I thought I was slightly ahead of the curve on my knowledge of line properties (guess not ). To me, it seems to sink a little slower than flouro (might be one of those things you mentioned on feelings vs. actuality), but I sometimes specifically use one or the other to try and spped up/slow down the fall ate of weightless soft plastics.
islandbass reply :
On 1/17/2012 at 1:47 AM, nwibass said:could i leader it with a swivel, because I hate tying knots, I was hoping I wouldnt even need a leader.
If you used a swivel, you'd be making 3 knots. Not so hot if you hate to tie knots.
On 1/17/2012 at 11:21 AM, lmoore said:The heavier braid, the worse actioin you'll get from topwaters. Braid sinks, so it puts downward pressure on the front of your bait. Mono would be "ideal" for topwaters because it floats and (as mentioned) actually puts very small upward force on the front of the bait, which allows it to glide along the water better. Mono also has the advantage of stretch, which can help keep from losing fish when using treble hooks. If you are more confident in briad, use the smallest diamter you feel comfortable using to negate the effects of the weight of the line.
That would be interesting to verify that braid sinks, as many float fisherman choose braid because it floats.
I don't know one way or the other so it would be great to find out.
Can anyone confirm whether or not braid truly floats or sinks unaided or in other words without external influence?
Wayne P. reply :
Imore, you have a good grasp on presentation techniques with the line affecting fall rates. Those that realize the benefits of the line types can include that as part of their presentations. One of my primary uses for fluorocarbon line is for a leader with braid for weightless plastics and big bass in heavy cover. I use 20# fluorocarbon in about a 4' length for weight to make the braid sink as a counter to its floating characteristic. My avatar is my primary presentation most of the year from 0'-30'. Subtle weighting is the key to fall rate, depth control, plus counteracting current and/or wind. It's also whole lot easier to break than the 40# superline I use if I get hung up.
Getting back to the orignal post about braids and topwater, when chasing schooling bass where a long cast is necessary sometimes, the near zero stretch and the floatation of the line will get you a better hook-to-land ratio.
Brandon K. reply :
Just tie it straight to the braid. If your good at casting and retrieving you wont have to worry that much about getting the line wrapped up in the hooks. I dont know what punkers have on them, but if you want to keep a walking bait in place put a split ring on the front. Floro sucks for a leader on poppers if your going to work it slow. It will absolutley sink on you and take your popper with it.
flippin and pitchin reply :
I'm with islandbass. In Washington, steelhead anglers, myself included, use braid when fishing a bobber and jig. The braid floats and you can virtually mend it like a double taper fly line with the long rods we use. This allows us to get the longest drift possible without current drag. I use braid for fishing super spooks. Long casts, really long casts and the fact the braid stays on the surface and had almost zero stretch makes it very effective. Tangles with hooks? Not a problem. The occasional wind knot wrapping around your tip, a tiny problem, but not enough to discount the other advantages. I don't use a leader either. Try it. If you don't like it. Stop. It's all about options.
SirSnookalot reply :
On 1/18/2012 at 7:12 AM, baluga said:It may not matter to you if it sinks on not but it does matter to those of us who take advantage of the line properties, like if it sinks or not.
The topic is about braid and top lures. Before responding I put a 15" piece of 30# PP in my fish tank, 1 hour later it's still floating. Using a top lure with braided line, in this case PP, pause or not, the line will not sink. If using a suspended bait, jig or whatever braided line still will not sink, but will be dragged down by the weight of the lure.
The question is, will braid absorb water over extended period of time and then sink, give us a report in 3 months for re evaluation.
baluga reply :
On 1/18/2012 at 4:44 PM, SirSnookalot said:The topic is about braid and top lures. Before responding I put a 15" piece of 30# PP in my fish tank, 1 hour later it's still floating. Using a top lure with braided line, in this case PP, pause or not, the line will not sink. If using a suspended bait, jig or whatever braided line still will not sink, but will be dragged down by the weight of the lure.
The question is, will braid absorb water over extended period of time and then sink, give us a report in 3 months for re evaluation.
I guess you can only run a test on PP since it’s the one that you have been using based on your recent post. Those who have use it knows that PP floats, the question about sinking braid is when 832 came into the topic. 832 claims to be sinking due to the gore-tex strand added into the mix.
I guess you have missed my post when I compared the braids that I have personally used like the PP, Fireline Crystal, Spiderwire, Sufix Performance, Daiwa Samurai and Sufix 832 braids.
Do yourself a favor get yourself 832 and give us a report in 3 mos. This way you would know what we are talking about and at the same time you get yourself a chance to try 832. Oh and you might want to try Daiwa Samurai in the mix.
SirSnookalot reply :
@ Baluga, I'll give you the nod about 832 sinking, it may, I don't know never using it. Using a buoyant lure with any reasonable pause time probably would not affect any lure action that I would be concerned about. The OP is about 30lb braid and topwater, with no specific brand mentioned.
I have no problems with any of the brands of braid I'm presently using, employing a variety of techniques and lures, in both fresh and saltwater. At present I have no plans to try 832 or anything else, fishing ( and catching) 7 days a week I've got a good handle on what works for me, I'm quite content with my quantity, quality and variety. The only change I will be making is focusing more on my fly fishing for the species I presently target.
Wayne P. reply :
This is the product advertizement for the Suffix 832
"
Sufix 832 Advanced Superline® is the strongest, most durable small diameter braid on the market. R8 Precision Braiding and fiber technology provides superior strength, roundness and line consistency. Patent-pending construction of 8 fibers (7 HMPE Dyneema® plus 1 Patent Pending GORE® Performance Fiber) and 32 weaves (pics) per inch. GORE® Performance Fibers improve abrasion resistance, increase casting distance & accuracy and reduce line vibration. HMPE Dyneema® fibers provide high strength & sensitivity, hydrophobic water-repellent protection and small diameter."
Note the last sentence after the comma.
That just goes to show how companies take advantage of the gullibility of consumers. The GoreTex fibers in them selves do not make a garment water-proof. It is the tight weave of the threads that produces the waterproofness. Suffix uses that brand name to sucker the consumer into buying their product. The same line with no GoreTex thread would perform the same. That one thread out of 8 in the 832 does not make the other 7 threads more water-repellent, they already are. Water can be absorbed within the weave over time, but that has nothing to do with the threads that make up the line. If you leave a braid in the water long enough for the water to replace the air, it won't float. Plastic is denser than water.
baluga reply :
That's the reason why I try it myself before saying anything about the product. I could not imagine how others could comment, more so say negative things on a particular product without personally owning and using them.
J Francho reply :
Line that sinks, even just a bit, makes walking baits more difficult than they really are. So does a very limp line. I also find braid tangles more with suspended jerkbaits than topwaters. I just don't like braid with a treble. I prefer something with a little give.
SirSnookalot reply :
I don't like the give. I was cuda fishing today using both a cuda tube and top water lure and just hated the stretch. I use mono on my cuda outfit as the tubes create too much line twits with braid, the braid is unusable after a while and won't troll out like mono.
Bass fishing this afternoon and back with braid, just love it for everything.
To each their own.
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