Why do the older legendary pros struggle to compete ? ? 2024
scaleface reply :
Most of these guys who were once dominant , seldom make the cut anymore , let alone qualify for year end championships. Guys like Clunn, Grigsby , Yelas ... Do you think because they already made a success of pro fishing that they just are not motivated like they once were or do you think the younger anglers are just that much better?
Team9nine reply :
Combination of youth (desire, physical abilities and energy), technology (both equipment and learning curves) and versatility (esp. with "newer" techniques).
senile1 reply :
Good question, but one that I can't answer. I know as I have grown older I am a better angler than I was when I was younger. Through repetition of concepts and time on the water, applying those concepts becomes easier and at times almost second nature. I would think the same would apply for the older professionals. Maybe it has something to do with their stamina in maintaining the intensity of thought and physicality needed to win. I don't know.
scaleface reply :
On 3/2/2018 at 11:35 PM, senile1 said:Good question, but one that I can't answer. I know as I have grown older I am a better angler than I was when I was younger.
Same here
senile1 reply :
On 3/2/2018 at 11:34 PM, Team9nine said:Combination of youth (desire, physical abilities and energy), technology (both equipment and learning curves) and versatility (esp. with "newer" techniques).
I agree with most of this, though as professionals I would think they keep up with the technology. I am 57 and a senior network engineer and the young people come to me when they can't solve issues, but that is because it is my job to keep up with technology changes. I would think it would be the same for older professional anglers.
Turtle135 reply :
I suspect the younger anglers are more adept with todays electronics (and electronics have become extremely important in tournament fishing).
I am in the computer business. What I notice is that if I hand my teenage nieces and nephews a new IPAD that it takes them about 60 seconds before they are navigating around at light speed. If I hand my brother who is in his late 50's the same device I am still getting phone calls two weeks later about how to accomplish what should be a straight forward task. He gets there eventually but it takes him a lot longer to integrate the device into the way he works.
Team9nine reply :
On 3/2/2018 at 11:40 PM, senile1 said:I agree with most of this, though as professionals I would think they keep up with the technology. I am 57 and a senior network engineer and the young people come to me when they can't solve issues, but that is because it is my job to keep up with technology changes. I would think it would be the same for older professional anglers.
To expand on the technology part, learning curves for younger anglers is incredibly shorter and more expansive than it ever was for older anglers thanks to websites, social media, their penchant for networking, etc. They're learning a majority of what took the old pros sometimes a decade or more to figure out in a matter of a couple years now.
Additionally, their growing up with technology (wireless, hand held, immediate, etc.) means they embrace it and are the fast adopters of things like networked depthfinders, SI/DI, Panoptix, newer hybrid TM (Ultrex), Google Earth and other online imagery, and on and on.
I'm sure the older anglers are aware this stuff is out there, but how many are actually mastering and utilizing it in a quick and efficient manner is the difference (see Turtle135's comment above).
Gundog reply :
Besides the reasons mentioned above don't forget about family life. Many of the "old guys" have spent decades on the road, traveling from one place to the next and simply see family as more important than they use to when they were younger. Its a tough life to put so much of your time and energy into one thing with very little time for anything else. We all have jobs and lives outside of those jobs with a somewhat equal balance. Professional anglers don't. Its a constant grind that many older anglers don't want to do anymore. So they may not practice for all of the events or choose a granddaughters birthday over time on the lake. Priorities change the older you get.
senile1 reply :
On 3/3/2018 at 12:00 AM, Team9nine said:To expand on the technology part, learning curves for younger anglers is incredibly shorter and more expansive than it ever was for older anglers thanks to websites, social media, their penchant for networking, etc. They're learning a majority of what took the old pros sometimes a decade or more to figure out in a matter of a couple years now.
Additionally, their growing up with technology (wireless, hand held, immediate, etc.) means they embrace it and are the fast adopters of things like networked depthfinders, SI/DI, Panoptix, newer hybrid TM (Ultrex), Google Earth and other online imagery, and on and on.
I'm sure the older anglers are aware this stuff is out there, but how many are actually mastering and utilizing it in a quick and efficient manner is the difference (see Turtle135's comment above).
If you are just talking about the average older adult or the average angler, then the above would be true.
I don't know about your familiarity with network engineering, but it goes well beyond just the computer business and encompasses a gamut of technologies including the implementation of voice servers, data servers, phones, firewalls, routers, switches, ACD servers, ACD scripting, DMVPNs, SDWANS, virtualized environments, wireless phone integration, etc. We build entire converged computer networks for corporations. And the younger network engineers tend to be not as savvy as the 4 older senior engineers where I work. It is a matter of time spent studying, experience, and continuous study to keep up with technological improvements.
Maybe older professional anglers do not keep up with the technology in their field like we do, but I would think they have a step up on using it since they are already familiar with the older technology and should be presented with newer technologies to play with every time their sponsors develop them. Maybe they choose to just let it go after a while and not learn how to use something newer - living off their past laurels so to speak.
Team9nine reply :
On 3/3/2018 at 12:59 AM, senile1 said:If you are just talking about the average older adult or the average angler, then the above would be true.
I don't know about your familiarity with network engineering, but it goes well beyond just the computer business and encompasses a gamut of technologies including the implementation of voice servers, data servers, phones, firewalls, routers, switches, ACD servers, ACD scripting, DMVPNs, SDWANS, virtualized environments, wireless phone integration, etc. We build entire converged computer networks for corporations. And the younger network engineers tend to be not as savvy as the 4 older senior engineers where I work. It is a matter of time spent studying, experience, and continuous study to keep up with technological improvements.
Maybe older professional anglers do not keep up with the technology in their field like we do, but I would think they have a step up on using it since they are already familiar with the older technology and should be presented with newer technologies to play with every time their sponsors develop them.
I don't view it as the same thing at all. I think in your example above, technology is central to the position and keeping up with changes in that technology as part of a broader platform is an advantage (and arguably required).
To professional angling, I don't see the comparisons. There is really no benefit to having grown up with paper graphs and flashers in the age of Mega-imaging. How great you are on a trolling motor means nothing to a GPS programmable unit linked to every depth finder in the boat and controlled by the press of a button. Everything you ever learned about baits, techniques, lakes, etc is available to today's anglers, and absorbed in weeks instead of a lifetime. Every major tournament ever won is available for them to study and dissect, and learn from.
As it seems to be turning out, there is very little advantage to angling experience when these kids started at such a young age and have the ability to learn from every mistake ever made on the pro trail. An Elite friend of mine chides me all the time about me "fishing history." Today's young pros, for the most part, have no fear of, and could largely care less about, how we fished in the past (baits, technology, patterns, etc.).
Just my take on it having experienced it first hand.
Scott F reply :
I'm an older guy who often fishes with a guy many years younger than me. We don't tournament fish but we both work hard on a long day of fishing. I always find that as the day wears on, I get tired more easily than my younger partner. As my energy drops, my concentration fades, and I don't make as many casts, and my casting accuracy suffers. As a result, the guy I was keeping up with catch wise early in the day, nearly always out fishes me in the afternoon. I can only imagine how the added stress of big time tournament fishing drains energy from a fisherman. It takes a lot of energy to compete at a high level for 8 hours.
A-Jay reply :
Why do the older legendary pros struggle to compete ? ?
Interesting question.
There aren't a whole lot of 'professional sports' where 50 year old's are effectively competing with 20 year old's.
I believe the reason(s) are fairly obvious
However, as a 50 something human myself, this isn't something I'm particularly excited about.
But it is what it is.
Probably where "Youth is wasted on the young" came from.
A-Jay
12poundbass reply :
Keep in mind Mr. Clunn a couple years back won, and a few years before that went toe to toe with Keith Combs on Amistad. He/they may not be up there on the leaderboard week in and week out, but keep in mind there are plenty of young bucks that aren't either. Take a look at the FLW roster (nothing against FLW) and you'll see some names that will refresh your memory of their Elite days. Yet Mr. Clunn, Mr. Grigsby and others are still fishing the Elites year after year.
I'll start the list of young bucks:
Jason Quinn
Derik Remitz
Chad Grigsby
senile1 reply :
On 3/3/2018 at 1:27 AM, Team9nine said:I don't view it as the same thing at all. I think in your example above, technology is central to the position and keeping up with changes in that technology as part of a broader platform is an advantage (and arguably required).
To professional angling, I don't see the comparisons. There is really no benefit to having grown up with paper graphs and flashers in the age of Mega-imaging. How great you are on a trolling motor means nothing to a GPS programmable unit linked to every depth finder in the boat and controlled by the press of a button. Everything you ever learned about baits, techniques, lakes, etc is available to today's anglers, and absorbed in weeks instead of a lifetime. Every major tournament ever won is available for them to study and dissect, and learn from.
As it seems to be turning out, there is very little advantage to angling experience when these kids started at such a young age and have the ability to learn from every mistake ever made on the pro trail. An Elite friend of mine chides me all the time about me "fishing history." Today's young pros, for the most part, have no fear of, and could largely care less about, how we fished in the past (baits, technology, patterns, etc.).
Just my take on it having experienced it first hand.
Good points, all. What professional angers learn about technology is certainly at the lower end of the spectrum of what can be learned in the entire technological field, so in that regard it does not compare. I also agree that the younger lot can learn everything much quicker and I would agree that old paper flasher technology would not help with future technology.
The comparison I am making is in the professionalism of performing the job for those who still find it important to compete effectively. I am referring to professional anglers who have kept up with the technology to . . . . let's say the last generation of sonar and depth finders, not someone who quit learning after paper flashers. In my opinion the newer side imaging, down imaging, 360, Panoptix, etc do not require a big jump in technical user knowledge from the previous generation of equipment. It is, after all, just knowledge learned from the user perspective and not the programming perspective. I assume a professional angler who still takes his job seriously would continue to learn until the point where it isn't important to him anymore. (Though I should keep in mind that maybe they don't see learning new user technologies from the same perspective as I. 
)
Having said that your point is well-taken that the older guys may not be as good with the technology, but I don't see it as something they are incapable of. I just see it as something they see as unimportant at this stage after they have already made a name for themselves. They can now make money without being at the top of their game. In other words, the technology isn't the culprit. Their desire to learn is.
senile1 reply :
On 3/3/2018 at 12:55 AM, Gundog said:Besides the reasons mentioned above don't forget about family life. Many of the "old guys" have spent decades on the road, traveling from one place to the next and simply see family as more important than they use to when they were younger. Its a tough life to put so much of your time and energy into one thing with very little time for anything else. We all have jobs and lives outside of those jobs with a somewhat equal balance. Professional anglers don't. Its a constant grind that many older anglers don't want to do anymore. So they may not practice for all of the events or choose a granddaughters birthday over time on the lake. Priorities change the older you get.
I think that is a very perceptive comment, Gundog. Most of these guys have proven themselves, some have their own shows, and others get paid to place their names on new lures, etc. Maybe it isn't worth putting in the extra effort that interferes with family and other parts of their lives if it isn't necessary to make a living.
Team9nine reply :
On 3/3/2018 at 4:08 AM, 12poundbass said:Keep in mind Mr. Clunn a couple years back won, and a few years before that went toe to toe with Keith Combs on Amistad. He/they may not be up there on the leaderboard week in and week out, but keep in mind there are plenty of young bucks that aren't either. Take a look at the FLW roster (nothing against FLW) and you'll see some names that will refresh your memory of their Elite days. Yet Mr. Clunn, Mr. Grigsby and others are still fishing the Elites year after year.
I'll start the list of young bucks:
Jason Quinn
Derik Remitz
Chad Grigsby
There's a reason BASS uses average career AOY placement to fill remaining Elite field openings, as well as recently adding "Legend exemptions" into the mix.
On 3/3/2018 at 4:40 AM, senile1 said:having said that your point is well-taken that the older guys may not be as good with the technology, but I don't see it as something they are incapable of. I just see it as something they see as unimportant at this stage after they have already made a name for themselves. They can now make money without being at the top of their game. In other words, the technology isn't the culprit. Their desire to learn is.
A very fair and realistic point. The critical question then to me would be, does their competitive nature allow them to just be mediocre at best, largely going through the motions with the occasional good showing? Top competitors in all sports are often quoted as saying when they are no longer competitive, they'll know it's time to walk away. But as we all too often see, "walking away" isn't always so easy when you've been on top. And as BASS has shown, booting "legends" off the tour isn't an easy call or even a popular one.
12poundbass reply :
On 3/3/2018 at 5:01 AM, Team9nine said:There's a reason BASS uses average career AOY placement to fill remaining Elite field openings, as well as recently adding "Legend exemptions" into the mix.
I wasn't aware of this. I'm guessing the two I mentioned fall into the career AOY category? I think Shaw is on the verge of not making it if he doesn't have a good year this year.
Ratherbfishing reply :
Whereas I do think I'm a BETTER angler than I was 20 or even 10 years ago, I am also less DURABLE than I used to be (20 or even 10 years ago). When I need to stop and rest, I do. I've never fished a tournament but i can imagine the level of intensity required is more than most of us "old-timers" can handle (on a regular basis). Keep in mind that at 53, I'm at LEAST 10 years younger than most of the pioneers in the sport so I don't even want to think about what I'll be able to endure in 10 years.
Rodney Smith reply :
The one word that comes to mind is stubbornness. The same thing that makes me throw a jig most all day because I want to. The older we get, the less we adapt and change. Not so with younger people. They have vast amounts of knowledge at their disposal and a willingness to try new things. For some of the legends, it seems if it has been working for 30 years, it is still good enough. A young person would put a new wrinkle on an old standby and use it outfish the older guys as a result. I would say a little loss of passion and stubbornness...
Scott F reply :
I think saying that the older guys on tour are not tech savvy enough or that they are too stubborn to adapt is not giving them enough credit. Even my suggestion that older pros may not have enough stamina to compete at the same intense level all day may be insulting to the guys who are on the water all day every day. Everybody is different and there could be as many reasons why older pros may not be winning as much as they used to as there are older pros.
Catt reply :
I personally know several of the name y'all throwing around thinking they're not tech savvy!
Y'all totally wrong!
I've watched Shaw Grigsby explain to young guns things about their electronics they don't know it was capable of.
Larry Nixon is very well versed in all modern electronics but can read details on his Hummingbird Flasher y'all would miss with down/ side imaging.
Fervency!
I think the older Pros are more laid back than they use be. They not worried any more about "I gotta place in the top or I'm not gonna pay the house note".
That does change your mindset ????
Turtle135 reply :
I find this to be very interesting conversation. I know I became a much better fisherman over the last 18 years for one simple reason (which I will leave out of this conversion for the time being). Prior to that my skill increased at only a glacial pace for the previous 30 seasons.
I wonder, who you would put your money on if a tournament was conducted without any fish finders, no gps, no power poles, no spot lock and no wealth of historical information at an anglers disposal?
Catt reply :
On 3/3/2018 at 12:30 PM, Turtle135 said:no wealth of historical information at an anglers disposal?
The historical information is in their brains!
Turtle135 reply :
On 3/3/2018 at 12:37 PM, Catt said:The historical information is in their brains!
To some degree but I think you would agree that the amount of information that one individual could recall from a tournament that occurred 15 seasons back would be limited.
Rodney Smith reply :
It isn’t so much that younger guys are more tech savvy and the older guys are not. I suspect they all are. It is that the new guys are not so stuck in their ways. For instance, I watched Kevin Van Dam fish a drop shot last week on Major League fishing. He was fishing with a 1/2 weight and moving it fast. He is the greatest fisherman of all time, but he will be a power fisherman until the day he dies. The game has gone more finesse. The guys who are winning can do both. It isn’t that the older guys can’t do both, they just don’t want to. With that said, I agree that it doesn’t mean as much to them as the young guys. They were all hungry once, but most have made their money and priorities have changed.
Sam reply :
I am going to take on this topic from another point of view.
Last month I read an article about guys doing the same thing on bodies of water they had fished in the past.
The article pointed out that what happened the last time they fished a specific body of water they had good results.
So when the old pros go back to the bodies of water they have fished in the past they do the same thing, including visiting the same spots they had success.
But things change and by the time they change their pattern or location it is too late. They run out of time or can't find the fish again.
Just a different perspective on why the older guys may not be doing that well against the younger guys who have no perceived concepts about the lakes and river they fish.
Catt reply :
On 3/3/2018 at 12:51 PM, Turtle135 said:To some degree but I think you would agree that the amount of information that one individual could recall from a tournament that occurred 15 seasons back would be limited.
How old are you?
I'm 67 yrs old & can still recall detailed information from 30-40 yrs with great accuracy.
Little off subject but I recently took a Hazmat course that included a 16 hr test, I aced it in 8 hrs, 20-30 yr olds took the whole 16 hrs plus.
Why cause they have been around hazardous materials for 2-5 yrs, I've around it 40-45 yrs. The equipment has changed but dealing with hazardous materials aint changed.
Turtle135 reply :
On 3/3/2018 at 8:27 PM, Catt said:How old are you?
I am 56.
Let me give you an example. I fished the KBF Open on Santee Cooper back in March of 2013. I can remember exactly where I found my bass in that event and what presentation I used. I had never seen that body of water prior to that tournament nor I have been back there since but I could still paddle my kayak right back to those exact spots today. However that information that I can recall is "limited". I do not know exactly where or how the anglers in the top 5 caught their fish in that tournament. They were in no mood to share that information then as KBF would be holding another March Tournament on Santee Cooper the following year.
Back to my original question. If a tournament was held where no electronics could be used and no historical internet information could be obtained then who would that favor? My opinion, give me a legendary pro like a Rick Clunn who has years and years of experience in locating bass based on seasonal patterns and current conditions.
Who would you choose (legendary pro or young gun) and why?
Tlauz reply :
I think a lot of the older pros still "want to " win as bad as young guns, but they do not "have to" like younger pros. They have good relationships with sponsors, are well known by fans, and may not need to cash a check at every event. This may affect how much time you spend preparing. Also, I know family affects how much time you can or want to spend fishing. As much as we all would like to think we are getting better (mentally yes), physically we are not. You always hear athletes say Father Time is undefeated. I know losing 10 pounds when I was 25 was a snap. Losing 10 pounds now is a major undertaking.
68camaro reply :
Aside from some great philosophers, most did their most important stuff when much younger. I read where as philosophers age their brains aren't able to think as deeply as when younger.
Catt reply :
On 3/3/2018 at 11:07 PM, Turtle135 said:Back kto my original question. If a tournament was held where no electronics could be used and no historical internet information could be obtained then who would that favor? My opinion, give me a legendary pro like a Rick Clunn who has years and years of experience in locating bass based on seasonal patterns and current conditions.
Who would you choose (legendary pro or young gun) and why?
The General ????
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1simplemann reply :
I suspect that there a lot of reasons but I think that the biggest one is that the younger generation has caught up. They are hungry! Some of these guys eat, sleep and breath fishing. They have more drive and less family commitment so they throw their absolute all into it. The learning curve is much shorter. All the techniques are right on the internet to learn. Back in the day, it took some of the "legends" years to master their skills. Clunn and Fritts cranked, Shaw and Klien flipped, KVD power fished and so forth. They taught us how to find and catch fish. The younger generation was paying attention. It took years for the legends to find their spots. Now, with today's technology the young guns can find them in less than a week or days or hours. They are willing to look, look, and look some more till they find what they are looking for. Wheeler went to Cherokee for a week and did nothing but graph. He had 800 waypoints! If you apply that and good fishing skills, your gonna win or at least do well. The older guys might not be putting that much into it so therefore their results are not what they once were even though they are not doing anything different than what they did earlier in their careers. Their skills haven't diminished. KVD struggled for few years. Still competitive but not winning. He said "fishing history" was big part of the problem. He was fishing where they once were instead of where they were. He basically said that he realized that he had to step up his game to remain competitive. That's why I like the MLF format so much. Here's a lake, a map, and a boat. Go fishing! It's a true test angling ability.
Gundog reply :
On 3/3/2018 at 11:12 PM, Tlauz said:I know losing 10 pounds when I was 25 was a snap. Losing 10 pounds now is a major undertaking.
I knew there was a reason I hadn't seen my feet in years. 
scaleface reply :
On 3/4/2018 at 12:37 AM, 1simplemann said:I suspect that there a lot of reasons but I think that the biggest one is that the younger generation has caught up. They are hungry! Some of these guys eat, sleep and breath fishing. They have more drive and less family commitment so they throw their absolute all into it. The learning curve is much shorter. All the techniques are right on the internet to learn. Back in the day, it took some of the "legends" years to master their skills. Clunn and Fritts cranked, Shaw and Klien flipped, KVD power fished and so forth. They taught us how to find and catch fish. The younger generation was paying attention. It took years for the legends to find their spots. Now, with today's technology the young guns can find them in less than a week or days or hours. They are willing to look, look, and look some more till they find what they are looking for. Wheeler went to Cherokee for a week and did nothing but graph. He had 800 waypoints! If you apply that and good fishing skills, your gonna win or at least do well. The older guys might not be putting that much into it so therefore their results are not what they once were even though they are not doing anything different than what they did earlier in their careers. Their skills haven't diminished. KVD struggled for few years. Still competitive but not winning. He said "fishing history" was big part of the problem. He was fishing where they once were instead of where they were. He basically said that he realized that he had to step up his game to remain competitive. That's why I like the MLF format so much. Here's a lake, a map, and a boat. Go fishing! It's a true test angling ability.
My thinking was along the same line as yours . I remember Gary Klein lived in his pick-up truck . He had to catch fish or go home . Now there is not as much pressure on them .. Mark Davis was still competitive last season .
Sam reply :
Turtle, I remember how I fished every body of water I fish now. If I can't recall everything, I have paper maps that I have recorded my and my fishing partners' places where we caught them.
I am planning to hit Lake Gaston in April and already know how I will be fishing it based on past experiences. Right or wrong, this is the way I fish as I have confidence in the fact that the last times on Lake Gaston I caught them at specific locations.
Now for the guys who have not fished Lake Gaston in the past or fished it a few times, I expect them to run down to the dam area.
Where will I go? Not far from the launch site on Poplar Creek. But I ain't telling. 
OCdockskipper reply :
On 3/2/2018 at 11:35 PM, senile1 said:Good question, but one that I can't answer. I know as I have grown older I am a better angler than I was when I was younger...
While this applies to me as well, I think it doesn't play a role because I (we?) weren't "Elite" level anglers when we were young. We had a lot of room to grow, whereas someone like Jordan Lee is already well past where we will end up and will not get better exponentially. I don't fish tournaments, but I catch more & bigger fish on my home lake than the couple of younger guys who do fish it. The main reason is because they are casual fisherman, i.e., me when I was younger. If any of them had the drive to become a pro, they would most likely surpass me.
I believe stamina has alot to do with it. The sport (game?) I was competitive in was bowling and when I reached my 50's, I found I could still be the top average in a league full of twenty-somethings. However, that was bowling 3 games once a week. If we bowled a 10 gamer for 4 nights in a row, I believe the younger bowlers would pass me.
Technology also plays a role, but I believe differently than what others have said. Technology allows younger anglers to catch up to older anglers without having to put in the time on the water, it kind of negates a lot of the experience that use to give older guys an edge. That applied to bowling as well, where the skill of learning how to read the lanes has been negated by the ability to just choose a different ball that reacts to the lane conditions in the way that you want it to. I see this in fishing big time. For example, look what Larry Nixon & the others had to do to create and figure out how to make & fish a jerkbait. Younger anglers don't have to go through that process, they just buy one.
Lastly, an obvious factor is there are more anglers under 40 than over 60. Last year, Clunn & Grigsby were in the bottom 10 of AOY, but the other 8 spots were 20 & 30 year olds. The Elite series is also getting tougher, there are less & less Charlie Hartleys on it and more Jason Christies & Brent Ehlers, so the Clunn's & Grigsbys (or any of the top anglers for that matter) don't have the built in edge they once did.
WRB reply :
In a word stamina. Older anglers have the skills, the drive, the knowledge to compete with younger anglers. You could toss in KVD in the older group now, do you think he is over the hill? Pro tournament anglers in thier 50's are at the top of thier game.
Age for some younger people who have never lived long enough to experience getting older think we slow down mentally and some older folks do others don't. Very few older anglers who have spent a life time on the water remain physically fit to travel and fish 3 to 4 tournaments days in a row under all types of weather conditions have the stamina to perform at the top of their game for the year.
Tom
Catt reply :
If ya really wanna find out who's the best then a Megabucks floor mat is the best way.
Under a Megabucks format the lake was divided into 12 sections, each angler starts in a section & then they rotate through sections until each angler fished all 12 sections. Try fishing behind KVD, Clunn, Roland Martin, Gary Klein, Denny Brauer & others.
Larry Nixon was the first to $1,000,000 with 4 Megabucks wins, a feat not even KVD or Clunn accomplished, they never won one.
Oh yeah! I wanna see where this young guns are in 10-15-20 yrs!
OCdockskipper reply :
On 3/4/2018 at 10:46 AM, Catt said:...a Megabucks floor mat is the best way...
...Oh yeah! I wanna see where this young guns are in 10-15-20 yrs!
I use Megabucks floor mats at all of my doors!! 
In 10-20 years, I think Jordan Lee, Brandon Palaniuk & Jacob Wheeler may well be the KVD's & Aaron Martens of today. There will be many over that time who have great runs for a year or two and are solid anglers, but don't distinguish themselves as the top of their field. I think of someone like Bill Lowen who had a fantastic season the last time Martens won AOY. He has since slid back to being a dependable Elite angler who cashes a majority of the time. Many really good anglers will fall into this category.
I also think you may see less anglers fish competitively into their 60's in the future, at least in the current BASS or FLW tournament formats. The MLF format is actually more forgiving to someone who is older and may reward those who have a plethora of experience. Instead of 3 days of practice & 4 days of fishing, you have 3 days of fishing spread over 5 days or so, on smaller lakes with less travel. A little easier for older bones to recover.
Catt reply :
I don't see any young guns setting themselves apart from the crowd!
I see some really good anglers but no legends ????
1simplemann reply :
On 3/4/2018 at 9:01 PM, Catt said:I don't see any young guns setting themselves apart from the crowd!
I see some really good anglers but no legends ????
Lee, BP and Wheeler are on their way. Time will tell but they are a threat anytime they are on the water.
OCdockskipper reply :
On 3/4/2018 at 9:01 PM, Catt said:I don't see any young guns setting themselves apart from the crowd!
I see some really good anglers but no legends ????
Well, legendary status is something that takes time. At one time, both Rick Clunn & Bobby Murray had both won 2 Classics each. It was only years and additional accomplishments later that Clunn was considered a legend and Murray wasn't.
As for setting themselves apart from the crowd, how about these legends in the making:
- Wheeler wins the first 2 Elite events he enters and finishes 3rd in AOY in his "rookie" year on the Elites;
- Palaniuk is in the top 5 in his first Classic as a Nation angler at a time when most Nation Anglers finish in the bottom 10 of the Classic (with one notable legendary exception). He wins an Elite title his rookie year, and in his second year, suffers a crushing disqualification while running away with a tournament only to turn around & win the next tournament by making a 100 mile run everyday to his area. Last year, he crashes to a 103 place finish in the 2nd tournament only to turn it around & win AOY. C'Mon, if those things aren't legends in the making...!!
- Lee, like Clunn, gets his first major tournament win at the Classic. Not only does he charge back from 14th place, he did it only catching a dozen fish to the other contenders 15. Had he caught 15, he would have won by 15 -20 lbs. Although Lee had a solid year last year with a 4th place AOY finish, all Classic winners say the commitments after winning a Classic can't be anticipated and I think that may have slowed him down a bit. With that experience under his belt, a huge 2018 wouldn't surprise me. Can you say back to back Classics for his first 2 victories? That would be very Clunn like.
As an aside, I grew up watching Clunn, Nixon & Klein, so I don't dismiss their accomplishments at all. Some of the things they did at the time, considering where equipment and electronics were at, was amazing. KVD & AMart had their own set of challenges that they mastered as they rose to the pinnacle and the newer anglers will have newer obstacles as well.
Catt reply :
@OCdockskipper do ya really wanna throw numbers out there?
You mentioned Bobby Murray, he qualified for eight consecutive Classics winning two of them using spinning tackle long before anybody heard of a drop shot.
WRB reply :
You can't put Aaron Martens in the same age group as KVD, Aaron is 5 years younger, KVD is 50 years old, both may continue tournaments for another decade.
Rick Clunn is a very unique individual, still fishes Opens at 71, Larry Nixon still competes on FLW at 67 and both are active legends in bass fishing.
Only time will determine where the young guns today end up at the end of thier careers. Today's younger pro's have better eating habits, better physical training and more comfortable traveling vehicles and boats, they should be in better physical condition improving thier stamina.
I personally feel my bass catching skills are better today at nearly 75 then they were 50 years ago. There is no doubt my health and stamina is a fraction of what it was 50 years ago. 25 years ago when 50, I was fishing all the time and working full time, catching giant bass regularly and at the top of my career. Bass pro's should also be at the top of their careers in the 50's.
Tom
RB 77 reply :
On 3/3/2018 at 4:08 AM, 12poundbass said:Keep in mind Mr. Clunn a couple years back won, and a few years before that went toe to toe with Keith Combs on Amistad. He/they may not be up there on the leaderboard week in and week out, but keep in mind there are plenty of young bucks that aren't either. Take a look at the FLW roster (nothing against FLW) and you'll see some names that will refresh your memory of their Elite days. Yet Mr. Clunn, Mr. Grigsby and others are still fishing the Elites year after year.
I'll start the list of young bucks:
Jason Quinn
Derik Remitz
Chad Grigsby
That win was nothing short of amazing and I feel is a testament to why he is one of the best to ever do it.
On 3/4/2018 at 12:01 AM, Catt said:The General ????
Seeing were both worm draggers at heart, he would be my choice as well, no doubt about it!
OCdockskipper reply :
On 3/5/2018 at 2:15 AM, Catt said:@OCdockskipper do ya really wanna throw numbers out there?
You mentioned Bobby Murray, he qualified for eight consecutive Classics winning two of them using spinning tackle long before anybody heard of a drop shot.
Those numbers don't make those 3 legends by any means, but IF they are the beginning of legendary careers, those accomplishments will be cited as such years from now, probably when you & I are fishing St. Peters Creek (if you let me in the back of your boat) .
Mentioning Bobby Murray was not meant as a slight to him, but rather an example of how time changes how anglers are looked upon. At the time Murray won his second Classic, he & Clunn were probably looked upon as having similar careers. It wasn't until decades later that separation occurred between their career results and their placement in a ranking of greatest ever.
Senko lover reply :
I defer to those with much more experience in the sport than I have for an authoritative answer. But one thing I have noticed from learning about the history of professional fishing is the rise of versatility. There was a bass master article about this at some point. In order to survive in the Elite series right now, you have to be versatile. Back in the day, there were people that only fished a spinnerbait or only fished deep or only fished shallow. Today there are anglers that have specialties (Bill Lowen likes fishing shallow, Hank Cherry throws a jerk bait all the time, etc.) but it seems like every tournament you have guys with 35 rods rigged up covering every bait at every depth. Junk fishing and versatility have taken over specialties. That's changed the game.
There's a crazy amount of behind-the-scenes work that goes into an Elite tournament. Unless you're Boyd Duckett, most of the guys can't afford to fly to tournaments. They drive extremely long distances in a truck to get there. After they set up, they spend two days staring at their electronics on the water for 12 hours a day. They rig up rods and baits at night and don't get much sleep during practice. If they make the cut on day two, there's a total of four days of fishing. That's a strain on anyone, let alone someone who's not in their physical prime.
My grandparents are around Rick Clunn's age and a 7 hour road trip puts them on the couch for two days. For the record, he won an Elite series tournament on the St. John's river in 2016 at the age of 69. That's a testament not only to his skill and experience but it also says that he's in great shape. Don't count him out 
Catt reply :
Legend as defined by Advanced Angler
A Legend of the sport is someone who has made significant contributions or achieved uncommon accomplishments en route to leaving an indelible mark on the history of the sport. These are individuals who have set new standards, created new trends and driven the bar to new heights.
Like I said let's see where these young guns are in 20 years!
1simplemann reply :
On 3/5/2018 at 7:53 AM, Catt said:Legend as defined by Advanced Angler
A Legend of the sport is someone who has made significant contributions or achieved uncommon accomplishments en route to leaving an indelible mark on the history of the sport. These are individuals who have set new standards, created new trends and driven the bar to new heights.
Like I said let's see where these young guns are in 20 years!
Time will tell.
scaleface reply :
I know one thing , when I got into Fantasy fishing last year I picked a lot of Rick Clunns, Shaw Grigsbys , Tim Hortons , Paul Elias , Gary Kleins ,David Fritz and other than Horton winning an event the others were always no shows .
Choporoz reply :
Is the OP anecdotal or true? I'd be curious to see if age as a factor has actually changed over last couple decades. Not curious enough to research and deep dive into numbers, but a little curious.
I guess that it'd be important enough to some cross-section of pros as they age....that they might want to see some data. Has the average age of winners decreased over time? Average age of those above the cut? Top ten finishers? Is it more than age? Years of experience? I'm sure technology, stamina and family could all factor to some degree. I'd be a bit surprised if desire and drive are big factors, but could be, I suppose. Have tours become more exhaustive? Longer hours on water? More events? Longer seasons? I can see those factors affecting older anglers more than younger ones.
RichF reply :
I don't even know if we can compare the anglers of "then" to the anglers of "now." Like every sport, fishing was much different 30 - 40 yrs ago.
Team9nine reply :
Some interesting stats on this whole question from Ken Duke:
Https://www.bassmaster.com/news/age-and-pro-angler-part-1
Https://www.bassmaster.com/news/age-and-pro-angler-part-2
WRB reply :
The go to sonar experts the pros use to learn thier latest units nuances are older experts like Don Iovino at age 78. State of the art electronics may seem to be a younger generation tool and is, this generation will become the experts.
stamina includes both mental and physical conditions.
Tom
Catt reply :
On 3/5/2018 at 11:53 PM, Team9nine said:Some interesting stats on this whole question from Ken Duke:
Https://www.bassmaster.com/news/age-and-pro-angler-part-1
Https://www.bassmaster.com/news/age-and-pro-angler-part-2
Those articles give the best insight to this question!
It ended with "If history and the numbers teach us anything about age and professional angling, it's that it's not a young man's game … or an old man's game."
TOXIC reply :
On 3/4/2018 at 9:43 AM, WRB said:In a word stamina. Older anglers have the skills, the drive, the knowledge to compete with younger anglers. You could toss in KVD in the older group now, do you think he is over the hill? Pro tournament anglers in thier 50's are at the top of thier game.
Age for some younger people who have never lived long enough to experience getting older think we slow down mentally and some older folks do others don't. Very few older anglers who have spent a life time on the water remain physically fit to travel and fish 3 to 4 tournaments days in a row under all types of weather conditions have the stamina to perform at the top of their game for the year.
Tom
X1000
The wear and tear these guy put their bodies through is huge. Most of the "Senior" anglers have had multiple back, shoulder and arm surgeries as well as hands and knees. Some of the young guns are also having problems with the same things. Most don't understand the torture the trail puts on your body. Heck, even as a guide, if I had over 3 days booked for full 8 hours, at the end of the last trip I was literally on fumes. These guys with the practice, travel and tournament days crush their bodies. What keeps them in the game is to work smarter not harder. I have seen the routine an Elite Series angler goes through from practice all the way through a tournament because he stayed with me the entire time. Have no doubts the grind is real.
LadiMopar reply :
On 3/2/2018 at 11:09 PM, scaleface said:Most of these guys who were once dominant , seldom make the cut anymore , let alone qualify for year end championships. Guys like Clunn, Grigsby , Yelas ... Do you think because they already made a success of pro fishing that they just are not motivated like they once were or do you think the younger anglers are just that much better?
Rick Clunn is 72 years young this year, and watching him during the Bassmaster Elite on the St John's in 2016 was nothing short of Amazing! At 70 not only could he fish circles around a lot of those younger guys [skill and technique], but I figure there are quite a few he could physically run circles around! Heck, I got tired just watching him, but then he did bring in a whopping 81.15 lbs of bass in four days. And if that's not a full blown workout I don't know what is!
That being said, I don't think overall motivation towards our sport is a problem for these guys; [I've yet to see any of these guys not act like a kid when they swing a lunker in the boat] but as we get older I think priorities/responsibilities change.
Just an observation....
These guys you mention have all had pretty amazing careers in a sport/industry that is imho incredibly unique. Unlike other pro sports where you are guaranteed a paycheck by contract and sponsorship pays the bills probably to a greater degree post pro career, fishing for a living really seems to require solid sponsorship to have that professional career. So, if I were a sponsor I can only assume that the lions share of dollars would be given to the "up and coming" which could have a bearing on, at the very least, how often these legendary guys compete.
But if there was such a thing as "Make a Wish" for bass fishing folks, I'd be hoping every single day to have just one day on the water with Rick Clunn no matter what...even if he never won another tournament, although I'd be thrilled if he did.
Rpratt reply :
Ironically on The Bass Pros this week during the Fishing in 5 segment Rick Clunn answered this threads questions and theories. Motivation, age and physical abilities/health, and electronics all play a part in the reasons it's so hard for the older guys to compete at the levels that they do. So everyone is correct ????
OCdockskipper reply :
On 3/5/2018 at 7:53 AM, Catt said:Legend as defined by Advanced Angler
A Legend of the sport is someone who has made significant contributions or achieved uncommon accomplishments en route to leaving an indelible mark on the history of the sport. These are individuals who have set new standards, created new trends and driven the bar to new heights.
Like I said let's see where these young guns are in 20 years!
Catt, I think you would have to agree we are seeing a legend in the making with Jordan Lee. He is young enough to be my son, a completely different generation, yet I won't hesitate that there is something really special about this young man. He seems to be a combination of Aaron Martens natural ability and Rick Clunn's flair for the big stage. If he ends up adding KVD or Roland Martin's ability to close, look out. As an old timer, I am looking forward to the next couple of decades as Jordan knocks heads with the old guard and the new up & comers.
Weren't Rick Clunn's first two BASS victories Classics?
1simplemann reply :
On 3/4/2018 at 9:01 PM, Catt said:I don't see any young guns setting themselves apart from the crowd!
I see some really good anglers but no legends ????
The kid just took a major step towards setting himself apart from the crowd. I thought JC had it in the bag. Have to give the kid credit! Congrats J Lee!
Catt reply :
On 3/19/2018 at 7:15 AM, 1simplemann said:The kid just took a major step towards setting himself apart from the crowd. I thought JC had it in the bag. Have to give the kid credit! Congrats J Lee!
Yes he did! ????
LadiMopar reply :
On 3/19/2018 at 7:10 AM, OCdockskipper said:Weren't Rick Clunn's first two BASS victories Classics?
Yup, 1976, 1977, 1984 and 1990....but who's counting? ????
Columbia Craw reply :
They don't.
1simplemann reply :
On 3/19/2018 at 11:49 PM, Columbia Craw said:They don't.
??
Columbia Craw reply :
They don't struggle to compete. They are competitive. You're looking at the the Bassmaster Elite and FLW Tour pros. That's the upper crust in the entire country. They don't struggle. They are just as competitive as any other competitor. Some tournaments just don't work out regardless of who you are. The longevity of their ability to be competitive is what made them a "legend."
icuOklaCity reply :
There are some valid reason stated in earlier post. But I think the biggest reason is age itself. I'm 51 and in my mind I think I can still do think that I did when I was 20 and be better at it. Then reality steps up and slaps me in the face when the physical part starts. Your knees acke, your fingers don't work as well as they once did, and you eye sight is not as good.
So now at age 51 I can't stand on the front of boat running the trolling motor 8 hours straight due to knees hurting. Also balance is starting to become a issue with each pasting year.
Small task like retiring your line, changing baits, or even running line though the eyes on a pole are a big deal now, where as when I was young these are things that I did with out even thinking about it. I could retie a bait and be back fishing in 20-30 seconds. Now it could take me 2 to 3 minutes or longer depending on light conditions.
Eye sight is the biggest issue. Not only does it effect you on how you perpair your equipment, it also effects your fishing. Both your style of fishing and proficiency.
I can no long see my line most of the time. Making fishing plastics and jigs more of a pure feel the bite type . Before I could detect a bite by feel or sight. Now I can't see my line moving off in one direction, or it go limp on the fall. So now I find myself fishing more reaction type baits even when I know I need to slow down and fish a worm/bug because of my eyesight. Never worn glasses before.
WRB reply :
2 Elite events this year won by Takahiro age 48 and KVD age 51, both older and in their prime at the top of the game. It was KVD's 25th major tournament win.
At 75 I can only stand and operate my trolling motor and fish for about 6 hours, we always have wind and waves to deal with. My physical condition isn't good but my muscle memory is very good for fishing, not so good for other activities.
Being retired gives us the advantage of picking the days to fish and avioding bad weather and high boating traffic periods. Tournament anglers can't pick the days or avoid bad weather, it's a tough sport in poor conditions for all the competitors regardless of age.
Tom
Rahlow reply :
I think its simply a numbers game, more and younger competitors from the bottom up. I think electronics and such has opened competitive fishing up to people who may have not been able to compete if all they had was a "flasher"
CDMeyer reply :
I myself have wondered this. When I first started following the Elite sereis when I was younger names like Clunn, Grigsby and Shultz were studs. However, all it takes is a look at the Elite AOY standings and scroll to the bottom and many of those guys are there. As a former Highschool angler myself I wonder if programs for youth, hs and college along with electronics have contributed to it.
My second theory is a little more controversial. With all do respect to the guys mentioned before, I wonder if competitive drive is something. Competing in high school state, regional and national tournaments I have been exposed to solid competition and they have instilled in us a drive and path to make it as a professional someday if we so choose. As well, the education side has been incredible, each of the high school tourneys I was in was a learning experience in of itself being able to fish across the Midwest... as well as educational opportunities to learn more about the biology of fish and patterns along with how to be more efficient with electronics.
I do not mean to sound like a punk kid by this, I am just bringing a point to the form that putting young anglers in tourneys like they now offer and giving us the tools to succeed we go into our future tournaments more prepared and confident.
Tennessee Boy reply :
Stacy King is another guy who has been doing well lately at age 69. However, I heard him say in the last few weeks, that he was too old to be a "power fisherman".
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