TX Tourney Trails Need Change 2024

SkeetyCCTX reply :

First off I would like to say that I am a Tourny guy myself. I enjoy them and concede that there are many positives to come out of them. In no way am I advocating the end to all tournaments. This being said, tourney fishing in TX needs some MAJOR SHAKE-UPS!

As of right now, I believe that TX tourney trails are one of the most detrimintal influences on our lakes, even more than meat-hunters! Why do you ask?

There is a huge tourny craze in the state of TX right now. The amount of amatuer type tournys in this state is staggering. Every region of this state has numerous yearly trails, as well as large numbers of smaller events and club tournaments. In TX, these larger events draw upwards of 200 boats for each event in each region of the state (North, South, East, West, Central)!

Now, you have to consider the characteristics of the state of TX; and the current demands of it's anglers to see why there is a problem. Please try to stay with me on this.

First, a large portion of fish caught during the avg. tourny do not survive the stress of their ordeal. Now, not all of these fish die immediately, as many die later on due to injuries suffered to them, such as broken jaws from improper handleing! However, the major reason that many of these fish die is due to our climate! Throughout most of the year, most TX lakes carry a temp. of higher than 80 degrees. In fact, many S.TX lakes creep well into the mid 90's from June to Sept. Keeping bass alive in a livewell during an all day fishing event is very hard at these temps! Especially when considering the size of our fish. On the primary tourny lakes it usually takes 30 lbs or more to win the avg tourny, big fish just dont do well in a crammed, hot box all day! Summer fish kills from south TX tournys can be staggering, and you are being stubborn if you cant admitt this!

Next, the demands of the avg. tourny angler in TX are killing certain lakes! In TX, there is a large number of anglers that only fish under tourny situations, they just dont fish for recreation! Now, these anglers are very adament about fishing their tournys on the states hottest and best lakes: Falcon, Choke Canyon, Amistad, Fork, and a couple others! Because this is the only time they fish, they want to go to one of the Big Boys and catch BIG fish! Many organizers feel that they have to have their events on these lakes to draw crowds! I dont blame either of them for these attitudes, and I too like to fish these lakes. However, there is a major problem; too much stress is being placed on these lakes because of this!

There is an exreme amount of tourny stress unporportionatly placed on just a few TX bass lakes. These are our best fisheries and our best chances at seeing a world record, but they are being thrashed from tourny pressure and have drastically declined! Just imagine if your home lake had 200 boats worth of Tourny pressure every weekend! That kind of hammering will take a toll on any lake, especially when added to environmental factors such as the bad drought we had been in for the last 2 yrs!

All this being said, the negitives can easily be corrected if we would just make a few relitively easy changes to the way we fish our tournaments.

First, organizers should take great care when planning out their seasons. Southern lakes should always be fished first as this is when their temps are coolest! This will greatly improve survival rates during events in the warmer regions of the state.

2nd, more 3 fish formats should be adopted during the warmer times of year, or events can have all day weigh-ins so that fish are put back quickly and live-wells stay less cramped! I fished an event last summer at choke canyon that was run with an all day way in, you could weigh fish in as you caught them and then go back out and upgrade. The tourny only lost 1 fish, and it was a major success!

The last thing that would drastically help, is for event organizers to start alternating more lakes into their seasons. To give you an example of how it is now, the trail I fish has 7 events all fished on the same 3 lakes. Believe me event organizers, if you scheduled different lakes anglers will still come and fish. There are more than just 3 good lakes in TX, in fact; we may even discover some hidden gems that are better than the current big dogs!

By mixing in new lakes, these other lakes would get a chance to heal themselves after the beatings they take. I have seen drastic declines in several lakes that I know has something to do with heavy tourny pressure. Its simple math; the more tournys a lake has, the more pressure is on the fish, the more that are caught, and the more that die due to the stress!

Plus, this would also make the trails more interesting; as anglers will get to fish new places and fish under different circumstances. Down here in TX everyone allready knows who can catch fish on Choke, Falcon, Fork, and Amistad; lets see if they can do it on different lakes that they may not fish often. I think this would make trails more competitive, fair, and we would see who is truely a more versitile fisherman!

Now, before anyone gets all defensive, consider this; the changes that I advocate are only meant to preserve our lakes and better our fisheries so that we can enjoy great tourny fishing for years to come. At the rate we are going we will have to use TNT to get a limmit on lakes that used to be plum full of bass. By taking a conservation/fish first attitude, we will in return increase the overall fishing experience. These changes are just minor consessions and wont do anything but help out!

Catt reply :

I've followed the Texas tournaments for years now, I also know some of the biologist and keep up with current research.

My question is where is your supporting data or is this your opinion only.

SkeetyCCTX reply :

My supporting data comes from unbiased personal observation and conversations with other fisherman who fish as much as I do. I am not an organization and do not have the time to conduct an type of official studies, Im just using un-biased common sense!

Like I stated earlier, none of these recommendations will hurt anybody, they will only help, so please try not to get defensive. Im a tounry angler too, but as a whole tourny anglers are very over-defensive whenever better conservation efforts are suggested towards them. Why? It will just help us out more in the long run!

Have you ever seen a tourny on Falcon during anytime other than winter? It can be sickening to see how many fish die. I was at the Elite series 2 yrs back and it was the saddest thing I had ever seen. So many big fish died that it wasnt even funny. You cant tell me that it didnt hurt the lake! I have been to numerous tournys on Choke Canyon and Falcon where large portions of the fish have died. The sad thing is that it all could have been avoided if we and Tourny anglers and organizers would have tried a little harder.

I could throw fish kill figures out but it really doesnt matter. There are so many conflicting studies on how many fish die and live that it is irrelivant. Ive seen studies supporting a 1/3 kill ratio and I have seen studies showing that everything lives. I dont put much stock into them because they can be manipulated based on the sampler's intentions. All I know is what I see with my own eyes and other testimonials from trusted anglers.

I live near Choke Canyon and have been fishing it for many years on a weekly basis. Any local that fishes the lake on a year long regular basis will tell you that the bass fishing has seen an overall decline over the last several yrs. Sure, some big fish are still being caught; but there are a lot more lines in the water to catch them with! The overall fishing has gone down by more than half in my opinion, as well as many of my fishing partners.

The same can be said for many of the other top lakes. Dont try and say that Fork is spitting out fish like it did in the 90's! Amistad is the same way! Falcon is the only one that I believe can handle the heavy tourny pressure because it is so big, and doesnt get as many club tournys and recreation anglers because it is so far out of the way!

What do all these lakes have in common? Huge tourny crowds. You can say that it doesnt effect things. Im not advocating an end to tournys, I love fishing them, but I just think that we need to make some changes to make things better!

firefightn15 reply :

I'm curious, in your first post you ask that the reader not get defensive at your proposed changes and in your post to Catt's reply You start out one sentence by Saying "Don't try and say Fork is spitting out fish like it did in the 90's."

Now before you get defensive, this is only a question; why tell someone to not get defensive and then later on intimate that you don't want to hear their arguments? I do not fish these lakes and claim no expertise, I am just trying to understand if your looking to make sure everyone knows your right or if your looking for other constructive opinion on Fork.

Tin reply :

I understand your point but you are not helping either. The fish in your avatar is on some sort of surface which is not good because it removes it protective slime coat.

Matt Fly reply :

What trails in south Texas. Media don't fish south Texas, and the big boys are BassChamps.

What two boat trails do you get on Falcon, be real easy to show a bunch since you fish them.

You should be telling this to your director, he's the one fishing 7 events on 3 bodies of water.

Bass Champs is only 5 events, so name the other trails.

fishfordollars reply :

Too many tournaments? I think supply and demand will eventually settle that. Participation is definitely down in a lot of them; however, Bass Champs is still drawing north of 200 boats. Many of the other higher end ones have seen a large drop in the number of participants. The weather and the economy may have caused that for this year, we'll just have to wait and see.

Fish mortality is always an issue when they visit a lake. Most don't take the care with their catch that I would like to see. Cold weather months do help, but there are way too many that totally disregard the livewell system and the way they handle the fish. There needs to be more stringent penalties for dead fish. I am all in favor of a three fish limit for June-September tournament months, but I don't think you will see it happen. Tournament directors need to make a more concerted effort to care for the fish during the weigh in also. What really irritates me is the holding of weigh bags in the weigh tanks. Makes no sense to stand at a tank with a weigh bag without any holes in it being placed in an oxygenated tank. That is nothing but fluff for the spectators. Does nothing to help the fish.

Can the lakes handle it? Well so far, they seem to be holding their own. Parks and Wildlife stocks large numbers each year. Big fish numbers may be down. I have not seen any information that would support this other than the sight of large numbers of large fish seen at Falcon after the Elites left there several years ago.

Instead of cutting back on the number of tournaments I would like to see a program set up to educate all anglers in fish care, survival techniques, and demand that they abide by it. Maybe a requirement that the boats livewell be setup a certain way(dimensions, oxygen system, etc.), and research done to help the survival rate during weigh in.

I believe that 90% of the stress that kills our fish is done from the time it is removed from the livewell until it is released after weigh in.

Strictly my opinions backed by no scientific information or studies.

Jack

R520dvx reply :

I think you are ignoring the fact that lakes will go through phases. Other factors come into play like spawn size, climate, and changes in the lake.

I live on Kentucky Lake and our fishing has been improving the last few years and is expected to continue improving. Is it the best it's ever been? No, but improving. We had some years with better than average spawns and some other factors. The fishing has changed also. The resurgence of vegetation in the lake has had an affect on fish location. We've had to adapt to that change.

Believe me, Texas isn't the only place with tournament pressure. Several hundred tourney boats is an every weekend occurrence here. I have seen times when there were upwards of 1000 tournament boats involved in big tournaments only ..... not counting club tournaments and recreational fishing.

We also have our share of high water temps. We have quite a stretch of water temps in the 80's to close to 90. Not as high as yours, however because of conditioning just as stressful to our fish as your temps are to yours.

Some anglers could do a better job of taking care of the fish. There are plenty of products to use .... oxygenators, livewell treatments like Catch and Release, hydrogen peroxide, and good old fashioned ice. There will always be some anglers who are not diligent in fish care. Some angler education would be good in some cases.

All in all, I believe if fisheries biologist and management thought tournament fishing was seriously damaging fish populations, that they would regulate it more or put an end to it.

Matt Fly reply :

Good points 520.

Cut my teeth in the 60's on Amistad as a boy, Dad coached and ran baitstand at Comstock.

All lakes have cycles, you could show the cycle of droughts that plagued those 3 lakes that have been mentioned for kicking out 40 lb 5 bass sacks on Choke, Amistad, and Falcon.

With that being said, you could also show the BassChamps results 2003 and prior and you will not see 1/2 the 5 fish limits you see now or even one third of the 20 lbs sacks, much less 30-40 lbs sacks.

And you can't blame BASS or FLW or state run tournaments prior to those years for the fishing being so so then.

So why was the fishing so so then? 40-90 ft of missing water on those 3 lakes might explain it with no cover for fry to survive.

Mother nature filled those 3 lakes after 10-15years of new growth, then filling them with massive rains of 2004 created brand new lakes.

And as for pressure, when those 3 lakes support half of what Rayburn and TB do annually, then you might have something to talk about.

Team tournaments are not issues, 5 fish spread out in 2 wells, not an issue.

BASS eliminated co anglers, no longer crowding issue with the use of both livewells.

FLW, still has an issue, angler and co angler, even if Co anglers limit is 3 fish, it don't help the boater with 5 fish limit.

So really, what tournaments on Falcon have 200 boats and fighting for the use of one livewell,

by the way, thats the only problem with a tournament on big fish lakes, is trying to cram 5 big fish in one livewell when you have co boaters.

SkeetyCCTX reply :

I think that I was misunderstood when I said, "Dont try to say Fork is spitting fish out like in the 90"s!" I was not really talking to anyone in general, or trying to be defensive. However, I am trying to prove my opinion and was just making a generalized statement about what most people already know! Honestly, I was not trying to cause any harm.

This stuff is just my point of view on the situation and I am not trying to get personal with anyone. Im sure all of you are great people. However, that doesnt mean that we have to agree on all issue. And, if we dont that doesnt mean that I mean any personal insult or harm.

You do have the right to your opinion, as I also have the right to object to it. As long as we are doing so in a civilized manner, there is nothing wrong with it. In fact, a good intelligent discussion; about an issue that draws strong opinions ', is fun!

I dont ever take this stuff personally, its just about fish! So, please dont get upset or have ill will cause I have none towards you.

That being said, I think this is a prime example of my assertion that Tourny Anglers get very defensive when our conservation methods are scrutinized, or brought into question!

Look, everybody has room for improvment, and I just think that TX Tournys have room for a lot of em. My goal is to just better our lakes and sport, not to belittle, name call, or point fingers. That will get nothing done. I just want to open some eyes to the fact that we do take a toll on our lakes and that we can do more to help sustaine them than what we are doing now. Thats it!

FYI, in no way am I perfect or the top authority on conservation. In no way am I trying to act like I am any better than any one of you. Yes, I have made mistakes before. However, I am Man enough to admitt when I am wrong and change my ways if corrected. Someone made a statement above about the Bass Pictured in my signiture. Yes, you are correct; lying a fish down on the boat carpet is not too good for bass. Just so you know, that pic was taken over 2 yrs ago while by myslelf. Though I have always been convervation minded, I did not think about things like that during that period of my fishing. I was by myslef and just wanted a pic of the great fish! However, you can rest assure that I know do all that I can to not place fish on the boat carpet.

That is neither here nor there though, I am not trying to nit pick on every little thing and call individuals out for every improper action. I just am asking for us Tourny fisherman to collectively strive to improve our lakes. Nobody should have a problem with this!

BTW, as for different TX trails: Bass Champs has like 5 divisions, BFL has 5 div, Federation has 5 div, Bass-N-Bucks has several events, S. TX 5! These are just the Trails that I can name off the top of my head. I fish the S. TX 5. Also, there are many large annual tournys every year, for instance: API events, BassChamps Big Fish Bonanzas (Choke/Fork/TB), and much more! Then, you got all the little events (50 boats or less) and Club tournys!

Also, there was a comment about Toleto Bend getting hammered way more than everyone else. I agree, and you are just restating my point. Tourny pressure on certain lakes is way out of hand and it needs to be spreed out.

basscrusher reply :

I agree with the post that hot-water summertime tournaments need to be scaled back some.

Also, the slime coat issue you always hear is overrated, for bass at least. That's coming straight from the mouth of a VDGIF biologist (not me...one I talked to.)

Big-O reply :

You make some valid points Skeety and if you go to many of the bigger Texas tournaments now you'll see that the rules regarding fish handling are ever changing for the better to try and remedy this big challenge.

Maybe not as fast as we (or the Fish) would like it but this seems to be a priority that is getting more and more attention nationwide.

Rome wasn't built in a day...but it did get built and that's our promise to the future of our great resource THE BASS

Maybe not in mine, but in your lifetime I think you will be proud of yours and everyone elses efforts that make friendly competition as safe as possible for the fish

Big O

www.ragetail.com

Glenn reply :

Fish care is of utmost importance, and should be the #1 priority for every tournament angler. To that end, SureLife put together a fantastic video all about fish care. Every tourny angler should memorize it.

http://www.bassresource.com/bass-fishing-videos/fish-care-in-the-livewell.html

Catt reply :

Tournament anglers get defensive when people like you come on public forums or in political settings trying to blame tournament anglers for their suspected problems. Every member here that has replied to your post is a tournament angler and all are highly involved in conservation.

What you have failed to understand is that a vast majority of all improvements in lake conservation, boat livewells, fish care while in the livewell, fish care during the weight-in, & fish care after the weight-in is not only supported by tournament anglers but often times enacted by and paid for by tournament anglers.

fishfordollars reply :

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Tournament anglers get defensive when people like you come on public forums or in political settings trying to blame tournament anglers for their suspected problems. Every member here that has replied to your post is a tournament angler and all are highly involved in conservation.
What you have failed to understand is that a vast majority of all improvements in lake conservation, boat livewells, fish care while in the livewell, fish care during the weight-in, & fish care after the weight-in is not only supported by tournament anglers but often times enacted by and paid for by tournament anglers.

X2 Catt, you put it out there very well.

SkeetyCCTX reply :

Quote:

End Quote:

Once again, I have clearly stated that I am not trying to get into a personal argument or directly fingering anyone for blame on anything. But, since it keeps getting brought back to that, I will comment.

Comments like this just prove my point that "we" Tourny Anglers get too defensive when conservation is brought up, when we should be excitedly trying to constantly improve! Any time improvements are suggested "we" resort to vigorously defensing the conservation steps we already practice. No body is saying that there are not conservation minded measures already in place. However, what I am saying is that we are not doing as good as we can ultimately do. Im not the kind of guy that settles for mediocracy and I bet many of yall dont either. Lets put it this way, in a tourny would you just stop as soon as you catch your first 5 keepers? No, you are going to keep fishing and try to improve upon what you already have. This is the same concept I am trying to advocate, we need to make improvements.

What was sufficient 10 yrs ago, does not necessarily apply to today. Tournaments have become HUGE and we need to adjust accordingly to maintain the proper balance. As stated earlier, these efforts will only improve our sport, so there is no reason that you shouldnt be all for it!

However, the fact is that "we" tourny anglers are very over-devensive when it comes to looking in the mirror and seeing what we can do better. We are so worried about ourselves and having a good time, that we sometimes neglect to properly protect our main resource, "Bass!" Trust me though, if we spend a little extra effort protecting rather than just taking, the results will be heavier sacks and a more entertaining sport!

BTW, please notice that I keep saying, "we" "us" and "our" when talking about Tourny related issues. As earlier stated, I am a tourny angler too! I currently fish a little amatuer trail and many other single events, such as the API, BassChamps Big Bass, Coleto Creek Invitational, and several more. In no way do I advocate getting rid of something that i enjoy. However, I can be honest and look into the mirror. We all have room to improve! Just because we are better than others doesnt mean that we should be satisfied and stop there. With the way our sport is growing we must evolve!

Catt reply :

You see a need for MAJOR SHAKE-UPS!

I see a need for minor adjustments

You see a large portion of fish caught during the avg. tourny do not survive the stress of their ordeal.

I see a small portion of fish caught during the average tournament that do not survive.

You see a portion of these fish that do not die immediately but die later on due to injuries

I see no supporting data proving these bass were in fact caught in a tournament and not by recreational anglers.

You see "There is an extreme amount of tourny stress unproportionately placed on just a few TX bass lakes. These are our best fisheries and our best chances at seeing a world record, but they are being thrashed from tourny pressure and have drastically declined!"

Again I see no supporting data other than personal opinion

You say "First, organizers should take great care when planning out their seasons."

I don't know any tournament organizer who doesn't!

You mentioned Toledo Bend as proving your point of being over pressured

I say Toledo Bend is 190,000 acres divided by 200 anglers equals 950 acres per angler

Is there a need for improvement?

Yes & it is done through individual education not point fingers at Tournament Organizations.

Catt reply :

"BTW, please notice that I keep saying, "we" "us" and "our" when talking about Tourny related issues. As earlier stated, I am a tourny angler too!"

I would not be so quick to add yourself to the same catorgory of "we" "us" and "our"

I personally think you are a young angler whose heart is in the church...wrong pew

Matt Fly reply :

I think its lame to pass the buck.

Those are my fish in the livewell for up to 8-9 hours.

Easy to blame an organization that only handles your fish for short time for the dead fish.

And, 80% of TX tournaments are team,thats one limit that has the use of 2 wells, again, not really an issue,

The one rule that needs more teeth in it is the dead fish penality. Half pound don't cut it. Needs to be half the dead fishs weight. ie....5 lb dead fish would only count 2.5 lbs, so the bigger the fish, the bigger the penalty.

Knock on Catts head, I have never had a tourney bass die!

R520dvx reply :

I just read some tournament rules that the dead fish penalty is 25% of the ENTIRE CATCH !!!

That is the kind of penalty that will make a difference in the way some handle fish.

fishfordollars reply :

Quote
I think its lame to pass the buck.
Those are my fish in the livewell for up to 8-9 hours.

Easy to blame an organization that only handles your fish for short time for the dead fish.

And, 80% of TX tournaments are team,thats one limit that has the use of 2 wells, again, not really an issue,

The one rule that needs more teeth in it is the dead fish penality. Half pound don't cut it. Needs to be half the dead fishs weight. ie....5 lb dead fish would only count 2.5 lbs, so the bigger the fish, the bigger the penalty.

Knock on Catts head, I have never had a tourney bass die!

Matt, I wish I could say the same. I've lost a very few. It was always due to my ignorance and lack of attention. I try to do better.

fishfordollars reply :

I'm not the least bit over sensitive when I look in the mirror. I always try to protect the environment, as well as our natural resources.

If you feel that strongly about the damage we, as tournament fishermen do to the lakes, maybe you need to put the rod down, grab a sign, and stand a picket line at a ramp or weighin.

SkeetyCCTX reply :

First off, I am a Man of almost 30 yrs old! I grew up on Padre Island saltwater fishing since I was a kid and later moved to bass fishing during my College years. I began College in 2001, and have been hardcore bass fishing since then. That is 9 yrs! So, dont judge who I am, or my experience! I have not finger pointed any of you personally nor have I made foolish judgements of who you are!

As for me wanting drastic shakeups, what are you talking about? All of the the things I ask for are simple and can be done without much money or stress on anyone. Im not asking for anyone to bend over backwards. Just do a few little things that will make are sport better. The only drastic changes that will occur are in the numbers of fish that we see caught.

Next, if you have not seen the declines in these major tourny lakes, than you abviously do not fish them on a regular weekly basis. I have been fishing Choke Canyon weekly for many years now, and any of the long time regulars will tell you the same thing, overall numbers are way down and fishing is tougher! Are there other factors involved? Yes, but that doesnt mean that we can help what we can!

Furthermore, if you do not think that there are signifigant fish kills because of tourny stress , than you are being very naive! You dont have to visually see fish floating! Remember, many fish suffer injuries that arent noticeable to us, such as broken jaws from improper handleing. It may take some time for these fish to slowly die due to their injuries. On a large lake like TB, Falcon, Amistad, or even Choke; you will not notice fish dieing at differnent times! But, it doesnt change the fact that they do!

Im not a tree hugger or activist, I just like Bass fishing and dont want to see it ruined. Yall should be the same way, this is nothing to get worked up over and defensive about. Lets just work together and try to make things better. Whats wrong with that?

Catt reply :

Quote
First off, I am a Man of almost 30 yrs old! I grew up on Padre Island saltwater fishing since I was a kid and later moved to bass fishing during my College years. I began College in 2001, and have been hardcore bass fishing since then. That is 9 yrs! So, dont judge who I am, or my experience! I have not finger pointed any of you personally nor have I made foolish judgements of who you are!
As for me wanting drastic shakeups, what are you talking about? All of the the things I ask for are simple and can be done without much money or stress on anyone. Im not asking for anyone to bend over backwards. Just do a few little things that will make are sport better. The only drastic changes that will occur are in the numbers of fish that we see caught.

Next, if you have not seen the declines in these major tourny lakes, than you abviously do not fish them on a regular weekly basis. I have been fishing Choke Canyon weekly for many years now, and any of the long time regulars will tell you the same thing, overall numbers are way down and fishing is tougher! Are there other factors involved? Yes, but that doesnt mean that we can help what we can!

Furthermore, if you do not think that there are signifigant fish kills because of tourny stress , than you are being very naive! You dont have to visually see fish floating! Remember, many fish suffer injuries that arent noticeable to us, such as broken jaws from improper handleing. It may take some time for these fish to slowly die due to their injuries. On a large lake like TB, Falcon, Amistad, or even Choke; you will not notice fish dieing at differnent times! But, it doesnt change the fact that they do!

Im not a tree hugger or activist, I just like Bass fishing and dont want to see it ruined. Yall should be the same way, this is nothing to get worked up over and defensive about. Lets just work together and try to make things better. Whats wrong with that?

I've tournament fished in Texas Longer than you've been alive!

Dude I live on Toledo Bend & have fished it for 38 yrs!

How you know their are dead if you don't see em

fishfordollars reply :

Quote
First off, I am a Man of almost 30 yrs old! I grew up on Padre Island saltwater fishing since I was a kid and later moved to bass fishing during my College years. I began College in 2001, and have been hardcore bass fishing since then. That is 9 yrs! So, dont judge who I am, or my experience! I have not finger pointed any of you personally nor have I made foolish judgements of who you are!
As for me wanting drastic shakeups, what are you talking about? All of the the things I ask for are simple and can be done without much money or stress on anyone. Im not asking for anyone to bend over backwards. Just do a few little things that will make are sport better. The only drastic changes that will occur are in the numbers of fish that we see caught.

Next, if you have not seen the declines in these major tourny lakes, than you abviously do not fish them on a regular weekly basis. I have been fishing Choke Canyon weekly for many years now, and any of the long time regulars will tell you the same thing, overall numbers are way down and fishing is tougher! Are there other factors involved? Yes, but that doesnt mean that we can help what we can!

Furthermore, if you do not think that there are signifigant fish kills because of tourny stress , than you are being very naive! You dont have to visually see fish floating! Remember, many fish suffer injuries that arent noticeable to us, such as broken jaws from improper handleing. It may take some time for these fish to slowly die due to their injuries. On a large lake like TB, Falcon, Amistad, or even Choke; you will not notice fish dieing at differnent times! But, it doesnt change the fact that they do!

Im not a tree hugger or activist, I just like Bass fishing and dont want to see it ruined. Yall should be the same way, this is nothing to get worked up over and defensive about. Lets just work together and try to make things better. Whats wrong with that?

You were not around back in the 80s when the fishing sucked on Rayburn. All I can say is "Thank God" it's not the same. So much better now.

You sir, have no idea how the fishing was back then. It was really down on a lot of our lakes. It's natural though, due to many things, lakes go through up and down cycles.

Catt reply :

You claim to be concerned with Choke Canyon Reservoir since you have been fishing it weekly for many years now. Are you involved with the Reservoir Controlling Authority, the City of Corpus Christi, Live Oak and McMullen Counties, Texas State Legislation, Texas Freshwater Fisheries Center (Sharelunker) or Texas Parks and Wildlife?

I'm involved with the Sabine River Authority of Texas/Louisiana Toledo Bend Division, Shelby, Sabine and Newton counties, Texas/Louisiana State Legislation, Texas Freshwater Fisheries Center (Sharelunker) & Texas/Louisiana Parks and Wildlife. I write up reports monthly for all agencies listed above plus others as well on water quality, Nuisance Aquatic Vegetation under the State Aquatic Vegetation Management Plan.

So if you truly want to help get involved

SkeetyCCTX reply :

I do try to get involved, thats why I write my own articles and try to spread the news on conservation. For someone who claims to be so involved, it sure does seem like you are against better conservation. You are trying to jump my butt just for writting a post that supports better conservation efforts!

As for the agencies that you listed, in my opinion some of them need some changes as well. Sharelunker for instance! Sure, their heart is in the right place, but the success rate of the program is just not there, and thats a fact. It doesnt matter if the blame is on the anglers catching the fish, or the officials, the main thing is that its just not working like it should. Choke Canyon produced about 7 shareLunkers last year and every single one of those fish died! If you ask me, we would have been better off if those fish were just left in our lake, they would be 20 lbs by theirsleves in a few yrs and would reproduce just fine for yrs to come. Thanks, but no thanks!

Plus, the lakes that I fish, hardely get any help from the sharelunker program. Even if our fish survive to make it to Athens, its more likely that some DFW or other northern lake will get the hatchlings. All the information is right there for you on the TPWD websites. Our lakes barely even get stocked with natives much less anything else! Why should I support programs that that dont help my neck of the woods, especially when i dont agree with their methods in the first place!

Yes, some lakes have gotten better over the last several decades, despite heavy pressure. However, the lakes that you speak of all get an overwelmingly unequaled amount of help from "state" agencies! TB get stocked every single year without fail, and gets more than its fair share of sharelunker hatchlings! Do you know how many times Choke Canyon has been stocked in the last 10 yrs, maybee 3 times, and one of those was this past year, and only once with sharelunkers.

If sharelunker wants to continue, I think that they would be better off taking a year off and spreading the word to anglers on how to handle and care for a fish that big before the officials get there, that way the fish actually make it to Athens! Then, build another facility, preferably closer to south TX, so that our fish dont die in the 5 hrs it takes officials to make it down here! Just seems logical!

Look, it dont take a middle aged man, or senior citizen to be smart or know something about fishing and conservation! I run operations on a business that does millions of dollars of revenue, and like conservation; alot of it is just common sense, self-evaluation, and constantly striving to get better. I dont mean to burst your bubble, but there is a growning population of people that feal exactly the same way as I do!

Just because those are the organizations and policies that are in place, doesnt mean that I have to agree with or like them. Especially when they do very little to help my home waters! If you dont wont to improve than dont, just dont wonder why the fishing stinks in a couple of years. Thats what is starting to happen on Choke Canyon!

Catt reply :

So I take it from this recent post you are not involed with any of these agencies?

I find it strange you claim not to want to point fingers or get defensive but yet you continually do.

The success rate for the Share-A-Lunker program is heralded world wide and yet you bad mouth them.

You want more for Choke Canyon Reservoir? Get involved!

Toledo Bend gets stocked because we have numerous anglers who are involved other than writing "articles" on web sites.

A lack of planning on your behalf does not constitute a crisis on my behalf

fishfordollars reply :

Well i sent this reply to David Campbell this morning.

Hopefully he will reply when he returns to his office. Let's see what he has to say about it.

Matt Fly reply :

What trails and tournaments are the ones you speak of?

Lets get all your facts out there.

Bass Champs isn't a factor, team tournament with two live wells to use and they educate their anglers, plus give them live well additives before the tournament free. Then of course, you don't have alot of options in south Texas.

And live well crowding is only a issue on a handful of lakes that are individual tournaments that have co boaters and one well per each angler.

Please, post the number of anglers and trails you speak of, its easy to post facts, you have tournaments and results because you fished them as you said.

Bass n Bucks, Champs, Media, BLT, and allot of others are TEAM trails with 5 fish in two live wells. Not an issue.

Whats your facts for calling a lot of us NAIVE?

Seems to me, until you post some fact on what TX Trails have issues, your just strirring the pot.

Catt reply :

I suspected something was

Started by SkeetyCCTX on: May 28th, 2009 at 7:46pm

Introductions / New, from South Texas

Thought I live 15 minutes from lake Corpus Christi, I am constantly at Choke Canyon which is only about 45 minutes from my house. If you know anything about Choke, you cant blame me! We have already produced 7 fish over 15 lbs this year alone!

All that while Choke Canyon was in decline plus ShareLunker shows only shows 3 over 15 lbs for 09 & 4 total.

fishfordollars reply :

Quote
I suspected something was
Started by SkeetyCCTX on: May 28th, 2009 at 7:46pm

Introductions / New, from South Texas

Thought I live 15 minutes from lake Corpus Christi, I am constantly at Choke Canyon which is only about 45 minutes from my house. If you know anything about Choke, you cant blame me! We have already produced 7 fish over 15 lbs this year alone!

All that while Choke Canyon was in decline plus ShareLunker shows only shows 3 over 15 lbs for 09 & 4 total.

That speaks volumes...

SkeetyCCTX reply :

Ok, Im going to go ahead and end this because some of yall are getting way too worked up! Im not trying to prove anybody wrong nor dismantle any organizations.

I was just giving my opinion on the state of tourny fishing in Texas and how it effects our fisheries. If you dont agree than thats fine, but it is nothing to get ugly about or try to directly make someone look foolish!

I have not mentioned anyone by name or been rude to anyone. I just have some displeasure with the way a few agencies run things, there is nothing wrong with that. This is America, right! We have amended are constitution numerous times and we still arent perfect, its nothing personal!

So, lets just end this conversation before things get out of hand, I dont want any problems! If you dont want to work on getting better than dont, thats your right! Its just "my opinion" that we can make things much better than they are now. which would make for better lakes!

I'm not going to dig up numbers or point anybody out, thats not what I was trying to do.

BTW, I dont really understand the point of putting up a quote that I posted almost 1 year ago. Was that to try and make me look bad? IF so, than I clearly mentioned in it that Choke was already on the way down, even though it still was producing some good ones. Unfortunately, Choke has come way down since then as well. I fished a mini tourny with about 6 friends this saturday and it was still tough. Nobody had a limmit but me, and that is just cause I fish choke way more than they do!

Yall have a good day and just relax and let it go. IF you feel that there are no more improvements left to be made than fine! Have a good one!

roadwarrior reply :

I don't understand you guys calling the man out.

What's wrong with just making up stuff and pulling

numbers out of the air if it helps support your position?

:-?

fishfordollars reply :

Quote
I don't understand you guys calling the man out.
What's wrong with just making up stuff and pulling

numbers out of the air if it helps support your position?

:-?

LMAO!

SkeetyCCTX reply :

One more thing! I dont pretend to have a bunch of data or reports. I said from the beginning that "my opinion" is based primarily off of personal experience!

I trust my own eyes, experiences, and common sense more than some report or numbers made up by someone I dont know. Stats and such are very easy to manipulate and dont tell the whole story!

However, this is just the opinion of a South Texan! Doesnt mean that Im right. Like I said, if you are satisfied with the conservation efforts that our tournys and agencies have in place, and dont think they need to get better in any areas, than fine!

Its nothing for us to be ugly to eachother about! Have a good day!

Grey Wolf reply :

This is like a bug taking on a flock of birds , not a chance in hell to win.

Catt reply :

When you call out an organization like API, BassChamps, Bass-N-Bucks, BFL, Coleto Creek Invitational, Federation, or Sharelunker you are calling out people.

When you say the stats and facts are made up to manipulate or not tell the whole story, we know the person who wrote up those reports, stats, and facts because we are involved.

To you these organizations as mindless, faceless, emotionless entities but to us they are friends, relatives, and neighbors.

Again if you truly want to support our sport then you must start by getting involved at the city, county, and then state level; it's done the same with tournament trails.

Next support organizations that can help make our sport stronger

Bass Resource sponsors

Steve (Big-O) Parks inventor of Rage Tail & a Texan

Sure-Life Laboratories: Tony and Lane Gergely

Tony was also on the founding board of the Budweiser ShareLunker Program located at the Texas Freshwater Fisheries Center in Athens, TX. He is very proud of the genetic work that is being accomplished by Texas Parks & Wildlife Department biologists in Athens.The Gergelys are active members of the Coastal Conservation Association.

I hold nothing against you personally but all I see is talk backed by no action

SkeetyCCTX reply :

Ok, so what you are saying is that I have to like and agree with 100% everything that these organizations do because they are what is in place! You are saying that there is no need for them to make any sort of improvements whatsover, just because they have already made certain attempts at conservation.

Listen to what you are saying? Guys, just because an organization is in place doesnt mean that it is doing the best possible job. On that note, an organization or person that can not take constructive criticism from outsiders will never be as good as it can be!

Quit putting words into my mouth, I know that alot of people in these organizations care, I just think it is time to shake some things up and take some new steps to combat the every growing number of people in our sport. There is nothing wrong with that!

Another thing, if you are going to be involved in a public organization that caters to the "public" than you need to be able to take outside criticism without getting all bent out of shape. Those may be your friends or family or whatever, but my suggestions are in no way a personal insult to them as individuals. When you run a big organization, you just have to understand that it comes with the territory! Do you expect everyone to just shut up and totally except everything that they do? That is arogance if you ask me!

I am a business man and I have to take criticism from customers all the time. If I took it all personally than there is no way I could keep my cool or stay professional. Its just business, not personal! Then, if I didnt alter my service to fit their needs I would loose alot of good customers! So, instead of getting offended, I make the small changes and keep everyone happy.

I'll tell you right now, I fish several BassChamps (Choke Big Bass) events every year and I have never had anyone from the organization instruct me or my partners on proper fish handleing, or givin out free surelife like mentioned in an above post! Plus, this even takes place during the hottest time of year, making it hard to keep fish alive.

As for the Colleto Creek Invitational, I will be fishing that this weekend with my partner. I will see for myself how good of a job they do with trying to ensure that every fish lives. Now, every fish might not live but we can at least do everything we can to help their chances!

Now, this is just my opinion guys, its not gosple! However, the state of many lakes really seems to correlate to what Im saying. COleto for instance! I cant understand how a warm water lake, in south tx, with plenty of food, cover, and everything else; has gone so down hill the past couple of years. There is no reason that Coleto shouldnt be spitting out 30 lb sacks at tourny. Right now, I would bet that the invitational is won with less than 20 lbs! Id like my chances with 15 lbs with what Ive seen and heard lately!

Its just my opinion that the avg tourny angler cares way more about his/her own good time rather than protecting our main resources, the lake/bass! Then, I feel that our organizations (we wont name any) are reluctant to make changes or take any steps to better things because they are scared that the anglers will go into an uproar.

Yes, there probably will be some resistance and gripping at first. But after a while everyone would get used to the new ways and I feel that the fishing would improve so much that theyd be having twice the fun!

However, this is just my opinion and nothing for anyone to get worked up over cause I am just one guy in the minority and cant change anything!. So, dont worry too much about it. I realize that many of the organizations make conservation efforts and that is good. I just think that there are a few things that can be done to get better. Take it or leave it!

Glenn reply :

Quote
You make some valid points Skeety and if you go to many of the bigger Texas tournaments now you'll see that the rules regarding fish handling are ever changing for the better to try and remedy this big challenge.
Maybe not as fast as we (or the Fish) would like it but this seems to be a priority that is getting more and more attention nationwide.

Rome wasn't built in a day...but it did get built and that's our promise to the future of our great resource THE BASS

Maybe not in mine, but in your lifetime I think you will be proud of yours and everyone elses efforts that make friendly competition as safe as possible for the fish

Big O

www.ragetail.com

Big O said well earlier, and it's worth reading again. It sounds like Skeety is pushing in this direction, so he shouldn't be faulted for it.

To that extent, I'm going to end this thread if it goes downhill even further. Keep it civil guys.

Matt Fly reply :

Well being from Texas, I'd like to know what tournament directors are still behind the 8 ball on fish care.

I promise ya, a TD won't get another nickle from me as long as they have big issues.

So why is it so hard to share what trails you speak of?

When your water levels drop back down to 40-90 ft low again, are you gonna blame the tournies or mother nature for slow fishing like it was prior to the massive rains creating new lakes?

So whats your theory for poor fishing prior to big tournaments? Can't say the tourney angler caused that in the 80-90;s now can ya? Old lakes going dry was good thing, it allowed years on new cover to grow, finally rains came filled a new lake up.

How many times have you fished Fork to say tournaments have killed it?

SkeetyCCTX reply :

Matt, Matt, Matt; you like others just wont allow yourselves to see the big point I am trying to make! I have written and erased several replys to your comments because I am just tired of this! Either you want to be open minded or you dont. And thats fine either way, its your opinion!

There are so many factors that contribute to fisheries that we cant change, thats why I say that we should do are best to improve in the areas we can control! Thats all!

BTW, my father used to fish Fork in the 80's and said it was waaaaay better back then! Also, if pressure doesnt do anything than why is everybody so pumped about the re-opening of Squaw Creek?

Catt reply :

I want to see change but I refuse to get involved instead I'll sit on the sidelines & chunk rocks

firefightn15 reply :

Skeety, not to detract from your arguments, but I saw this coming from your first post. I think your heart is in the right place but you posed your ideas wrongly, putting some on the defense rather than just asking for their thoughts first.

Catt, for instance, is known for great discussion on topics like this and I learn a lot just sitting back and reading these threads. I don't doubt for a minute your personal experience and think you make valuable points but Catt has been around for a loooooooong time and imo has been an asset to many here through his experience and advice.

That said, the fact that you want people to be aware of your concerns shows your commitment to the sport also. You obviously have the passion and want to make things better for the fish and fishing. I just feel that if your original post had been more questioning than authoritative that this whole thread may have been more productive.

Keep up the initiative, guys like you and others involved in this thread are what makes things better for the fish and fishing. 8-)

Matt Fly reply :

Quote
Skeety, not to detract from your arguments, but I saw this coming from your first post. I think your heart is in the right place but you posed your ideas wrongly, putting some on the defense rather than just asking for their thoughts first.
You obviously have the passion and want to make things better for the fish and fishing.

I didn't mean to appear defensive. I love the outdoors as much as the next guy.

I don't feel I have the need to defend Texas Tournament fishing. Its some of the best in the country to begin with. Texas being the key, I eluded to outside state organizations like BASS, but the topic is Texas.

I honestly feel that T Directors that run the largest trails in Texas have made great strides in fish care since the an outside organization, BASS opened our eyes on Falcon.

I don't see 5 fish in 2 seperate livewells as an issue if you have adequate livewells for team tournaments.

You have heard of the TFF, I'm sure you have since your a diehard tournament fishermen in Texas?

Sure has been hush hush on Tourney directors and what trails and are kiling fish for awhile. Trust me, 50,000 active members don't let news pass without posting it and pictures.

I see way to many guys letting fish go at the end of the day, a day of long fishing, and decided to let all them go at the ramp so they don't have to clean any. Happens 7 days out of the week, 5 fish limit tournaments are mainly 1 day tournament.

Its not just tournament fishermen that stress a bass out. We fish 30 feet waters in the summer on warm lakes 7 days a week, not just during tournaments, deep hooking a fish isn't good then, even if she don't go in the live well, just quick release.

That alone could easily cause delayed mortality with a livewell ride or without a livewell ride.

Trot lines with live bait takes a few, preditors, tourney fishermen, and those looking for supper all contribute to fish mortality.

I read what ya said. You stated your opinion, I asked some questions to clearify a few things, you choose to leave those questions unanswered.

Your on point is not to hold tournaments in hot months, and that on the bigger TX trails has already been addressed by the biggest trail that goes south, Bass Champs.

What licensed trails go south?

Why did Honey Hole fold in south Tx? not enough boats for the long miles you have to cover for 3 lakes, Amistad, Falcon and Choke, You don't have alot of good lakes south, its not like theres much choice of where to fish.

Did you know, Zapata and Del Rio will make more money from Bass Champs than the BASS Elites coming back?

Think about that! What do you think of that theory?

SkeetyCCTX reply :

Quote
Skeety, not to detract from your arguments, but I saw this coming from your first post. I think your heart is in the right place but you posed your ideas wrongly, putting some on the defense rather than just asking for their thoughts first.
Catt, for instance, is known for great discussion on topics like this and I learn a lot just sitting back and reading these threads. I don't doubt for a minute your personal experience and think you make valuable points but Catt has been around for a loooooooong time and imo has been an asset to many here through his experience and advice.

That said, the fact that you want people to be aware of your concerns shows your commitment to the sport also. You obviously have the passion and want to make things better for the fish and fishing. I just feel that if your original post had been more questioning than authoritative that this whole thread may have been more productive.

Keep up the initiative, guys like you and others involved in this thread are what makes things better for the fish and fishing. 8-)

This is a very reasonable comment to make, I have no problem accepting reasonable comments that arent personally offenseive.

This being said, alot of other post here seem to miss the point, and try to turn everything into a defensive contest with numbers, namecalling, and blame passing!

Ive clarified myself so much to individuals that I feel that there is no use doing so anymore! Im not trying to get personal but its getting pretty aggrevating and Ill try one more time:

Catt, what do you want me to do? The presidents of BassChamps, Sharelunker, and other large organizations are not going to step aside and let me take there spots. Basically, all I can do is try and persuade my peers. Its hard to not "sit on the bank and just chunk rocks" when you have no chance of being let in the water!

This being said, let me clarify again that I am not saying that these groups are not trying to take proper steps in conservation, and I am not saying that they are the worst or only factors involved! All I am saying is that they should beef up a little more in the conservation area in order to combat the growing tourny craze! Frankly, I find it very difficult to understand why you guys are so oppossed to making things better.

Matt, why cant you realize that I am not trying to call anyone out, or make anybodies trail, tourny, or organization look bad in particular. I am not responding to your questions because thats not what Im about. Im just trying to persuad "US" as a whole to get better! One more time, I am not saying that Tourny fishing is the only or worst factor lakes have to deal with. Yes, there are many other factors, some far worse! What I am trying to drive home to you is that Tourny fishing is an element that "WE" can control, unlike a drought, and there are several simple things that we can do to make are presence less harsh to TX lakes. I feel that we just need to increase our efforts due to the growth of the sport! Thats it!

Just a re-cap of changes or steps or ideas that I would like to see, none of these would hurt anybody!

1. Less summer time tournys on southern lakes

2. More 3 fish events

3. Periodic weigh-ins during events

4. More consevation literature and training for anglers

5. Spread out events to other lakes

Matt, just to let you know; most S. TX anglers saw BASS as the worst thing to ever happen to Falcon, and the elite serious was a disaster as far as fish kills are concerned. Trust me, Zapata gets its money from a much more lucritive business than fishing! Thats a dirty little secrete! Why do you think that nobody ever has theft problems down there, " Theres too much money being made elsewhere?"

Believe me, I am pointing the finger at myself as well. I am constantly trying to get better at taking better care of the bass that I catch, and our lakes. I am just asking that you think about doing the same! Trust me, we can do a whole lot better and it is arrogant to think that we are already doing enough! We should not be satisfied till every tourny fish survives!

P.S. Please notice that I keep using the words "We, Us, Our, etc.!" I too am a tourny fisherman and am in no way trying to badmouth any event or organization. We are all involved!

Catt reply :

"Catt, what do you want me to do? The presidents of BassChamps, Sharelunker, and other large organizations are not going to step aside and let me take there spots. Basically, all I can do is try and persuade my peers. Its hard to not "sit on the bank and just chunk rocks" when you have no chance of being let in the water!"

Typical of today's youngsters, I either start at the top or I don't start at all

First you're not proposing anything any of us don't already know but secondly and most importantly you're not truly involved when all you do is sit back and chunk rocks.

In my personal opinion the state of Texas has set the gold standard for tournament fishing.

cart7t reply :

Unless clear data showing a correlation between excessive fish kills/fish population/fish health problems can be drawn I think the use of that as an excuse to limit tournaments anywhere should be tossed out. In fact, tournament bass fishing has done a pretty good job with it's "Don't kill your catch" philosophy instilled by Ray Scott and BASS lo these many years later though I do believe there is vast room for improvement in the area of holding tournaments in the summer months.

That said.

Where I have an issue is in my state, Missouri, is at clogged, public boat ramps and public use areas paid for by tax dollars by ALL fishermen, not just tournament players.

Most of the major reservoirs in this state have at least one large 100+ boat tourney going on every weekend plus other smaller ones. Tournament organizations are using publicly funded facilities for profit without paying for the right, along with having to make some concessions to other taxpaying boat owning fishermen who wish to use the facility but can't because of the inconvenience due to the TX's use of said facility. IMO, petitioning a state's boating law enforcement facility and requesting that tournament organizations pay a users fee based on number of boats participating in the events. The funds to go towards adding additional land for the creation of boat launching facilities to alleviate the crowding that occurs now due to the tournaments.

Lets face it. Tournament fishing is merely a different form of legalized gambling with more skill involved than a typical game of chance. Allowing a company to profit from the use of a public use facility that's paid for by tax payers without them compensating said taxpayers is wrong.

Catt reply :

I could have sworn the tournament organizations & it's members were tax payers

SirSnookalot reply :

Quote
I could have sworn the tournament organizations & it's members were tax payers

If a non resident tournament angler purchased gas and other supplies in their home for use in a tournament in a state other than their own I don't know what tax they would be paying, unless a portion of the entry fee is taxed. I would think in a state with no state income tax that funding comes from sales tax. Winnings from a non income tax state would be free from tax, but a non resident would be liable to pay taxes to their home state if there was a state income tax.

I'm unsure of what tax the governing body ( organization) would pay other than the normal sales tax in procuring goods and services for use in the tournament.

Common sense and tax laws may not take the same path.

Catt reply :

I think we are refering to resident tournament anglers & cart7t is refering to Missouri anglers.

Matt Fly reply :

I think a Tournament Director needs to be smart enough to make changes as needed to address that "special lake".

Heres the question I asked my self.

Did the limit cause the stress? or is it the "time of the year", mother nature causing the stress? did the angler use everything he could to ensure best conditions in the livewell?

Catt,

Didn't Paul Elias have to put Nadiene in a well by herself due to bleeding bad from crank bait in the gill on day 4 on Falcon?

If the Co boater had been there on Day 4, that wouldn't have been possible? Even with both anglers having 3 fish limits, there wouldn't have been the option of using one well for the sick fish.

BASS took lots of critcism, yet when they took corrective measures for doing away with co anglers, they took more grief for fixing the issue.

Now using one well as an ICU for a sick fish will always be possible.

Trails have changed and are trying to change, its time for anglers to take more responsibility for taking care of their catches.

Seems like everyone stepped it up except a few anglers who still fail to take all the preventive measure to ensure proper conditions in the well during stressfull conditions.

SkeetyCCTX reply :

Lets just all do our part to continue to get better! This includes anglers and organizers! We represent a brand and it is much better to police ourselves than to let things go and have someone else step in and impose restrictions! Nobody should be happy untill every fish swims away as healthy as it was when caught!

Glenn reply :

Cart7t - in our state, you must have a permit to run a tournament, which costs $$ depending on size of the tournament. Also, organizations are restricted to 7 tournaments a year; bodies of water can only have a total 2 tournament weekends per month held on them; and if the mortality rate is over 10%, the tournament is OVER.

All -

That last part is, I believe, the most beneficial rule I've seen in eons. There's only a handful of states that have such a rule, but I feel every state must have them! You want anglers to do better at catch and release? Implement that rule and you will notice an immediate difference!

Catt reply :

I like that Boss

SkeetyCCTX reply :

Quote
Cart7t - in our state, you must have a permit to run a tournament, which costs $$ depending on size of the tournament. Also, organizations are restricted to 7 tournaments a year; bodies of water can only have a total 2 tournament weekends per month held on them; and if the mortality rate is over 10%, the tournament is OVER.
All -

That last part is, I believe, the most beneficial rule I've seen in eons. There's only a handful of states that have such a rule, but I feel every state must have them! You want anglers to do better at catch and release? Implement that rule and you will notice an immediate difference!

That is exactly the kind of steps that I would like to see taken in TX. I would be complety happy and 100% supportive of a law/rule like this in our state. However, I just think that we as tourny anglers/organizers should just start implementing it ourselves, just because it is the most ethical way to do things!

My main problem with the way tournies are run in TX is that there is way too many of them concentrated on just a few lakes. This might affect me more than others because my home lake, and my 2nd lake, are 2 of the most tournament fished lakes. Choke Canyon and Falcon!

By limmiting the amount of Tournies on each lake, I garuntee that the quality of each tourny would go way up! Plus, I think it would add alot more fairness and spice to the trails. There are lots of awesome lakes in tX that never hardly get fished and I think people would be surprised to see how many lakes in TX would actually give up 25 lb plus sacks!

Great example, I would like to see it happen here!

Wesley reply :

Quote
in our state, you must have a permit to run a tournament, which costs $$ depending on size of the tournament. Also, organizations are restricted to 7 tournaments a year; bodies of water can only have a total 2 tournament weekends per month held on them; and if the mortality rate is over 10%, the tournament is OVER.

That last rule is indeed interesting, do they calculate it by the number entered times the limit of fish and take 10% of that as the line? I dont know if I could support that change or not though. I dont much like being punished because a few people can not keep some fish alive.

A fee for tournaments wouldnt be a bad idea either.

Limiting the number of tournaments on a particular lake? I dont see that going down very well and I would be steadfast against it.

Glenn reply :

It's the percentage of total fish caught. And trust me, you don't want to be "that guy".

RichF reply :

Quote
First off, I am a Man of almost 30 yrs old! I grew up on Padre Island saltwater fishing since I was a kid and later moved to bass fishing during my College years. I began College in 2001, and have been hardcore bass fishing since then. That is 9 yrs! So, dont judge who I am, or my experience! I have not finger pointed any of you personally nor have I made foolish judgements of who you are!
As for me wanting drastic shakeups, what are you talking about? All of the the things I ask for are simple and can be done without much money or stress on anyone. Im not asking for anyone to bend over backwards. Just do a few little things that will make are sport better. The only drastic changes that will occur are in the numbers of fish that we see caught.

Next, if you have not seen the declines in these major tourny lakes, than you abviously do not fish them on a regular weekly basis. I have been fishing Choke Canyon weekly for many years now, and any of the long time regulars will tell you the same thing, overall numbers are way down and fishing is tougher! Are there other factors involved? Yes, but that doesnt mean that we can help what we can!

Furthermore, if you do not think that there are signifigant fish kills because of tourny stress , than you are being very naive! You dont have to visually see fish floating! Remember, many fish suffer injuries that arent noticeable to us, such as broken jaws from improper handleing. It may take some time for these fish to slowly die due to their injuries. On a large lake like TB, Falcon, Amistad, or even Choke; you will not notice fish dieing at differnent times! But, it doesnt change the fact that they do!

Im not a tree hugger or activist, I just like Bass fishing and dont want to see it ruined. Yall should be the same way, this is nothing to get worked up over and defensive about. Lets just work together and try to make things better. Whats wrong with that?

I agree with you skeety. The changes you are suggesting are in now way "major shake ups." I fish tourneys in northern NY so a lot of them involve smallmouth. So many fish are caught in over 30ft of water in the summer time and a lot of them die. Changing tourney times would be a great idea. We don't even have any scheduled in oct or nov, when tons of fish can be caught shallow. Also, how is changing locations and having a 3 fish limit a "major shake up?" Bass angling is my life and seeing fish die hits me pretty hard. These are small things that could absolutely help decrease fish mortality.

SkeetyCCTX reply :

Yes Rich I know, but for some reason a large population of Tourny anglers get real bent out of shape when anyone tries to hold them more accountable for keeping fish alive and overall conservation! I really dont understand it at all! You would think that all tourny anglers would be huge conservationalist! However, many are the furthest thing from it.

Personally, I think its just out of selfishness that they get so defensive about suggested improvements! They dont want anything getting in the way of "their good time!" The ironic thing is that a little sacrifice at the begginning will lead to better fishing in the long run!

This is just another perosnal opinion of mine, but the other group of tourny anglers just dont take the time to notice or care! These are the same guys that pull up on you and cut you off, or wake you as they speed by dangerously close to where you are fishing. I call this the "new generation" of bass fisherman. These are competive guys that used to play highschool or college sports and picked up bass fishing later in life as a way to fullfill a competitive need. They were not taught proper outdoor/water etiquette by a father or some other mentor when they were younger. They just went out, bought up alot of expensive equipment, and started hitting the water. They have no idea how to act out there and try to apply the rules of the city to boating and fishing. This is why they have no problem pulling up within casting distance of you. Or, why they just blast out of a fishing whole while others are still fishing!

The sad thing is that these type of guys dont even realize what they are doing and how they are effecting others. They are just focussed on their own little world! When On the water I feel it is our responsibility to pay attention to other boaters and anglers, so to not ruin their time!

Anyways, I am just talking in General and am not pointing out anyone speciific. I dont know anyone here and am not trying to lump anybody into the category I spoke of! Just a generalized opinion so dont get too worked up!

Glenn reply :

Please conserve exclamation points.

RichF reply :

I understand. I've fished with a lot of guys like that. I've also fished with a lot of really good guys. It's easy to get worked up when it comes to issues like this, especially when all of us on this forum are avid anglers. Heck, I got worked up yesterday when my buddy's dad wanted to keep some of the crappie we were catching through the ice! Anyway, I'm sure the majority of us here have conservation in mind so let's all try to keep pushing forward and continue to improve on our tournament and recreational fishing experiences.

Matt Fly reply :

Quote
What trails and tournaments are the ones you speak of?
Lets get all your facts out there.

Bass Champs isn't a factor, team tournament with two live wells to use and they educate their anglers, plus give them live well additives before the tournament free. Then of course, you don't have alot of options in south Texas.

And live well crowding is only a issue on a handful of lakes that are individual tournaments that have co boaters and one well per each angler.

Please, post the number of anglers and trails you speak of, its easy to post facts, you have tournaments and results because you fished them as you said.

Bass n Bucks, Champs, Media, BLT, and allot of others are TEAM trails with 5 fish in two live wells. Not an issue.

Whats your facts for calling a lot of us NAIVE?

Seems to me, until you post some fact on what TX Trails have issues, your just strirring the pot.

Skeety, that Anchor Marine Big Bass Event on Choke isn't a Bass Champ event in the first place, its hosted by Anchor Marine, Bass Champs just facilitates it for Anchor Marine.

I said team events and your experience is a hourly weigh-in BBS tournament and you talk about limits and your fishing a one fish per hour tournament.

By the way, you said BC has 5 divisions, its only been 4 for ever. South, Central, North, and East.

So you called me a liar cause you fished a Big Bass Splash event when I clearly said the team touranment trail was given free product.

If you really fished Bass Champs team trail back then, you'd have known that and you would of met Tony and Lane.

I did post the link in an old thread where it said they gave free product to all entries at registration, by the way, I got free product in the North as well.

Ignorant, lol, you don't even know a Bass Champs team event over someones elses event.

That shows your tournament knowledge of trails in TX. There isn't one single large trail in South TX that holds 7 events in your neck of the woods. Thus why you CAN'T name one and why you didn't.

Talk about fish tales and whoppers.

I'm beginning to think when you posted on one thread, you said two years tournament fishing, on another you said 3 years, I'm begining to think its been an hourly splash event maybe once or twice.

Glenn reply :

Keep it civil guys, and on topic. Making this personal is the quickest way to ending this thread. Capice?

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