Females on Bassmasters 2024

smashingsmallies reply :

I don't know where to ask this question so I thought I would try here. I love watching Bassmasters fishing programs and I was watching it today with my wife. It dawned on me and I wondered out loud why I don't see females fishing on Bassmasters. It can't possibly be because people think they are not as good cuz I've fished with and have seen many-a-woman outfish alot of people. Are they allowed to fish the tourney's with the men? If not, why the heck is that? Any helpful info would be appreciated. John.

preach4bass reply :

You've got to qualify for the Elite Series, so I guess none have qualified to fish it. Maybe none have tried.

chris090981 reply :

Pam Martin West took 22nd place in the Bassmaster Classic on Lay lake this year .. Beating out names like Boyd Duckett , Randy Howell , Alton Jones and Denny Brauer ! She did have an advantage of knowing that lake very well ! I wish my woman could fish ! I wish she could cook too ! hahah

Deb reply :

John,

I've just made a long post on this very subject in the ladies section.

Yes, there are some very good anglers out there....men and women :

fishfordollars reply :

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Pam Martin West took 22nd place in the Bassmaster Classic on Lay lake this year .. Beating out names like Boyd Duckett , Randy Howell , Alton Jones and Denny Brauer ! She did have an advantage of knowing that lake very well ! I wish my woman could fish ! I wish she could cook too ! hahah

Her name is Wells(Pam Martin-Wells) If you are going to use her for an example please get her name correct. I know she will appreciate it.

smashingsmallies reply :

Whew! I'm glad to hear that women are allowed! Thanks for all of the responses and good luck with your fishing. I'm a pretty lucky guy in that I get to go fishing whenever I want, but my wife likes going as well! Nothing else matters cuz all is well in life with my kick *ss wife! And no, she doesn't have any sisters-Ha! I'm gonna have to check out that article you posted Deb and thanks again to everyone for the swift responses. I love this site. John.

SkeetyCCTX reply :

There have been women fishing in the "Classic" for the past 2 years. I cant remember if it was the same gal but there definately has been a female for the past two years. Actually, this yr that Women caught a quick small limmit and was actually in 1st place for a short while on day one, this was the first time a women has ever lead the "Classic!" Pretty cool I thought!

Now, I remember last year that allot of the men were not happy about the woman being in the Classic because of how she qualified. She did not qualify the same way that the men did, she qualified because she was the top Woman fisherman for the highest level of Women's competitive fishing. This angered some of the men because they felt that the men's path to qualifying was much more difficult. Now, they do have an argument, but it wasnt like they erased a man's spot for the woman; they simply created an extra spot for the Women's Champion. In light of this, I feel that their problem was just that she was a 'Woman!"

The negitive public reactions and responses given by many of the male anglers were very tacky and distastefull. In my opinion, it made our sport look very backward and further garnered the stereotype that we are good ol boy, racist, rednecks! This was a great chance for the sport to gain positive exposure and look very diverse! There are not too many sports in which size, shape, athleticism and race do not make a difference in terms of opportunity for success. Now, even Gender criteria has been eliminated as well. This could be very appealing to alot of people! Plus, the addition of women to events gives a larger talent poole to pick competitors from. This makes things more challenging. Who knows, maybe these women are just as tuff as a lot of the men! Now, that they have more incentive to compete, we may see some interesting things in the future!

Personally, I have no problem with women fishing in any bass tourny! However, I would like to see some women try and qualify the same way that the men do. That is why it is good that they gave a woman a spot, I think it will encourage future women to try and qualify! Bass fishing is one of those sports where anybody in decent health can compete as long as they have competitive desire, instincts, fishing knowledge, intelligence, luck, experience, and other skills/traits that translate to tourny success. Couple all of this with a whole lot of practice, and you can make it!

smashingsmallies reply :

Another good response! I agree. I took a look at the post Deb made on the female side and I highly recommend it's reading. I'm 100% for women fishing the Bassmaster's tourney's or any other tourney out there. Yes, I agree that women should have to travel the same "path" that men have to, but are they afforded the same opportunities as men? I don't know, that's why I ask. I'm just curious if there are any men out there who have a problem with women fishing any tourney they fish. I mean, really, are there actually people in the fishing world in the year 2010 who have any kind of a problem with women fishing the Bassmaster or any other tourney? Are there? If so, those are the kind I don't wanna be around. I fully understand the male ego thing and pride cuz' I'm a male. I can't stand being out fished by anyone, male or female, and it bothers me to my core if I'm out fished cuz' MY PRIDE always seems to get me from time to time. This site is truly the only place I've found sound and willing advice from male anglers and what they've taught me in this short time will without a doubt, put me on more fish this year and I love it. It's generally hard to gleen information from male fishermen out in the world cuz' their PRIDE makes them withhold information for fear of somebody finding out their secret. Fishing has been around a long time and male ego has as well. The two combined causes a stir in the pot from time to time. If I find out that women are not afforded the same opportunities as men in both access to tourneys and EQUAL payouts, I will boycott those businesses and brands and make due with what I got and what I can put together. Anything short of equality is UNACCEPTABLE. Fishing is fun most of the time for me but there are times my ego and pride get in the way and I screw it up for me and anyone else with me. I try not to be that way but it happens. I really hope there are men out there who support women in ANY tourney out there and I would hope they would stay away from those who don't-or at the very least, be active in promoting women fishing in whatever game they're in. I wish all women the best in there fishing adventures with tourney's and I hope it can be rectified soon. Fish on. John.

chris090981 reply :

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Pam Martin West took 22nd place in the Bassmaster Classic on Lay lake this year .. Beating out names like Boyd Duckett , Randy Howell , Alton Jones and Denny Brauer ! She did have an advantage of knowing that lake very well ! I wish my woman could fish ! I wish she could cook too ! hahah

Her name is Wells(Pam Martin-Wells) If you are going to use her for an example please get her name correct. I know she will appreciate it.

o.k sir ! Will do !

Deb reply :

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I took a look at the post Deb made on the female side and I highly recommend it's reading.

Thanks John! I can get a bit passionate about what I believe in, if you couldn't tell

I really appreciate you being open about your support of the ladies. Wish there were more men like you.

Be patient with your wife, encourage her. Take her as often as she will go. Or I guess you could do like me EX.......ok, maybe that's not the way to go about it It did however encourage me to learn to kick bass!!!

I really enjoyed your PM. I'll get back to you in a couple of days. It's been a long day at work and tomorrow is a 14 hr day for me at the clinic. Tonight, I'm just sitting on the deck, enjoying the lake, playing on the puter and chilling with my hubby!

SkeetyCCTX reply :

I hate to tell you, but I garuntee you that a large portion of the bass fishing world, namely tourny guys; do not like the idea of competeing against women. This is the old gaurd that I speak of and they dont even like younger males and minorities, let alone women!

Being a younger guy (27), I have noticed a lot of flack from alot of my older peers. I am a talkitive friendly person and they are usually pretty cold towards me and I can tell that they think I am some young punk! It especially kills them when they see my sacks every tourny! If you have noticed, you see this negitive attitude the old gaurd has for the younger guys on the Elite Series and FLW all the time! Remember how much everyone hated Mike Icconelli when he first came on the seen? He's a very nice and polite guy and they just hated him cause he was "New" school!

Like I mentioned earlier, I was shocked by alot of the public comments made about the female angler during last year's classic! The way I see it is that you shouldnt be worried about anyone else but yourself when fishing a tourny. KVD was one of the few guys that wasnt gripping about her fishing and thats because he was focussed on what he had to do and not worrying about others!

In many ways, the old gaurd in competitive bass angleing is like that of Golf! Now, I know that this does not mean everyone is like this and I know that there are plenty out there that have no problem with different kinds of people entering the sport! However, there is an alarmingly large number of those that want to keep it the way that it used to be. That means 40-60 yr old white dudes named Hank! No offense to Hank Parker, he seems like a very good guy and not what i am talking about (LOL)!

fishfordollars reply :

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I hate to tell you, but I garuntee you that a large portion of the bass fishing world, namely tourny guys; do not like the idea of competeing against women. This is the old gaurd that I speak of and they dont even like younger males and minorities, let alone women!
Being a younger guy (27), I have noticed a lot of flack from alot of my older peers. I am a talkitive friendly person and they are usually pretty cold towards me and I can tell that they think I am some young punk! It especially kills them when they see my sacks every tourny! If you have noticed, you see this negitive attitude the old gaurd has for the younger guys on the Elite Series and FLW all the time! Remember how much everyone hated Mike Icconelli when he first came on the seen? He's a very nice and polite guy and they just hated him cause he was "New" school!

Like I mentioned earlier, I was shocked by alot of the public comments made about the female angler during last year's classic! The way I see it is that you shouldnt be worried about anyone else but yourself when fishing a tourny. KVD was one of the few guys that wasnt gripping about her fishing and thats because he was focussed on what he had to do and not worrying about others!

In many ways, the old gaurd in competitive bass angleing is like that of Golf! Now, I know that this does not mean everyone is like this and I know that there are plenty out there that have no problem with different kinds of people entering the sport! However, there is an alarmingly large number of those that want to keep it the way that it used to be. That means 40-60 yr old white dudes named Hank! No offense to Hank Parker, he seems like a very good guy and not what i am talking about (LOL)!

Actually i have not seen a lot of that in my area. We fish against and with women each week and they are as welcome in our conversations before and after a days fishing as anyone(More than some). In fact, if you look around, they are the center of a ton of bull sessions and when they speak most are paying attention. They handle themselves well and know what they are talking about. The ones in this area will flat put the hurt on you and can handle a boat with the best of them. I would just as well fish with one(And I have several times) as anyone out there. You just need a good understanding when it comes to bathroom issues, handle yourself professionally, and there is no problem. Fished a tournament last Saturday with one entered. She was the life of the weighin. Her name is Rena, and was great to meet her and have the chance to visit with her and her husband Paul. Great couple.

In fact, it's never the women that stir up issues, it's always some hothead that has no clue and can't catch enough fish to satisfy being entered.

I will fish with a woman any day. Never fished with one I could not learn from either. Wish we had more, it's good for the sport.

FYI, I am 61, so most of my friends are in the 50-60 age group, and never heard a word from any of them as to what you speak.

Jack

***They look a hell of a lot better in a set of bibs than any of us guys***

smashingsmallies reply :

Boy, alot of responses, good deal!!! It's good to see young, old, male, female, black, brown, white fishing. Of course there are knuckle heads in the fishing world, there's knuckle heads in every facet of life. But just like there are knuckle heads, there are also alot of pretty cool people out there in the fishing world. I am also talkative and I'm 43 and I experience the same cold shoulder most of the time and hey, that's o.k. The way I see it, the're the one's missing out on something cuz' I'm the kinda guy that will freely give out tips and locations. And really, most of the time, the guys with the uppity attitudes you speak of are the same ones who can't seem to catch fish, although they talk a mean game. So it's not just cuz your young, it's just people being people. As for Mike Iconnelli, I have to watch his fishing epsiodes with the volume on MUTE cuz I get sick when I hear him screaming like a 10 yr old kid. If he did that in my boat he would be finding out what the water felt like pretty quick.

As for women fishers, I agree alot of them can just plain fish and that's just the way it is. I gotta feeling we're gonna see a woman at the top of the fishing world helm. THERE IS AN OLD SCHOOL MENTALITY and a certain aire about alot of the tourney fisher's. That being said, there's a tremendous amount of STRESS a fisher has to go through in the tourney's and grumpy is understandable. I'm sure the old gaurd will fight the promotion of women at first, but eventually, they will be letting them in. And that goes for sponsor's. If the sponsor's have the mentality to just go after sponsorship for men, then that's saying something about PUBLIC DEMAND for the products making the money for sponsorship. And if public demand steers the direction of the advertisements/products, then that's saying something about the society we live in. What I'm saying is, it's easy to point the finger at anyone we want, but, it seems that there would have to be a whole lotta pointing at various people/entities cuz no one person or group is responsible for the decline or hindering of females in fishing. So let's just all take it in and maybe reflect a little on where we stand as a person. Hmmmmmmm......Keep fishin' people and keep postin' and take somebody fishing and forget about crap for awhile. Fish on. John

SkeetyCCTX reply :

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Quote
I hate to tell you, but I garuntee you that a large portion of the bass fishing world, namely tourny guys; do not like the idea of competeing against women. This is the old gaurd that I speak of and they dont even like younger males and minorities, let alone women!
Being a younger guy (27), I have noticed a lot of flack from alot of my older peers. I am a talkitive friendly person and they are usually pretty cold towards me and I can tell that they think I am some young punk! It especially kills them when they see my sacks every tourny! If you have noticed, you see this negitive attitude the old gaurd has for the younger guys on the Elite Series and FLW all the time! Remember how much everyone hated Mike Icconelli when he first came on the seen? He's a very nice and polite guy and they just hated him cause he was "New" school!

Like I mentioned earlier, I was shocked by alot of the public comments made about the female angler during last year's classic! The way I see it is that you shouldnt be worried about anyone else but yourself when fishing a tourny. KVD was one of the few guys that wasnt gripping about her fishing and thats because he was focussed on what he had to do and not worrying about others!

In many ways, the old gaurd in competitive bass angleing is like that of Golf! Now, I know that this does not mean everyone is like this and I know that there are plenty out there that have no problem with different kinds of people entering the sport! However, there is an alarmingly large number of those that want to keep it the way that it used to be. That means 40-60 yr old white dudes named Hank! No offense to Hank Parker, he seems like a very good guy and not what i am talking about (LOL)!

Actually i have not seen a lot of that in my area. We fish against and with women each week and they are as welcome in our conversations before and after a days fishing as anyone(More than some). In fact, if you look around, they are the center of a ton of bull sessions and when they speak most are paying attention. They handle themselves well and know what they are talking about. The ones in this area will flat put the hurt on you and can handle a boat with the best of them. I would just as well fish with one(And I have several times) as anyone out there. You just need a good understanding when it comes to bathroom issues, handle yourself professionally, and there is no problem. Fished a tournament last Saturday with one entered. She was the life of the weighin. Her name is Rena, and was great to meet her and have the chance to visit with her and her husband Paul. Great couple.

In fact, it's never the women that stir up issues, it's always some hothead that has no clue and can't catch enough fish to satisfy being entered.

I will fish with a woman any day. Never fished with one I could not learn from either. Wish we had more, it's good for the sport.

FYI, I am 61, so most of my friends are in the 50-60 age group, and never heard a word from any of them as to what you speak.

Jack

***They look a hell of a lot better in a set of bibs than any of us guys***

My wife is from Houston and I went to college a couple yrs up there, I will say it is a very diverse and tolerant city, but I would like to see any tourny anywhere where there is a healthy population of women anglers. Im sure there are a few women's leauges somewhere and a few club events that might have a good female presence, but I can not recall a woman in any tourny that I have ever fished! Thats not to say there wasnt, but not enough for me to notice!

The fact that we have to make a big deal about women being involved, shows that they usually arent and that there is a problem! Its kinda like the racist guy that claims to have a black friend, so that he doesnt look racist!

To tell you the truth, I dont know any women that are good fisherman except for 1, and she is a saltwater angler! Her name is Cpt. Billie Kocian and she is as nice a persona as you will meet! She fishes a pro redfish series and guides on Aransas Bay!

To me it seems kinda sad that I only know of 1 good woman angler. Its not like fishing requires the strength and athleticism that only men have, its more of a finesse mental thing and there is not a reason why women cant succed, other than gender stereotypes!

However, I agree! I believe it is only a matter of time before we see a dominant woman angler or two at the top of the sport with the boys!

stratos 375 reply :

At this point in time, In regards to the gender aspect of fishing, things are confusing. Close to 40 classics and only two women have fished in them? When the top names in fishing are mentioned, rarely is a woman mentioned. That fact alone speaks volumes.

They most definately have the same opportunities as men do. Just like men, they can get a truck loan, a boat loan and fill out an entry form. What more does one need?

If women are striving for true equality in the sport, why are there "women only" tours? The sport should either merge male & female tours, or draw a line in the sand much like the NBA/ WNBA or the PGA and the WPGA. The sport seems to be stuck somewhere in between.

To me, the simplest explanation seems to be the closest to the truth. Up until now, many of the women just don't have the skills needed to place in the winners circle of major tournaments on a consistent basis. Please note that I did say consistent. And if by chance there are any women who consistently place in the money in any of the larger tours, please tell me who they are and I will stand corrected and offer my apologies to the fishing community.

I do predict that within the next five years or so, a young lady will emerge as a fishing prodigy, a true phenom who will take the sport by storm and dispell all doubts about womens abilities in angling. However, she's not here just yet.

SkeetyCCTX reply :

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At this point in time, In regards to the gender aspect of fishing, things are confusing. Close to 40 classics and only two women have fished in them? When the top names in fishing are mentioned, rarely is a woman mentioned. That fact alone speaks volumes.
They most definately have the same opportunities as men do. Just like men, they can get a truck loan, a boat loan and fill out an entry form. What more does one need?

If women are striving for true equality in the sport, why are there "women only" tours? The sport should either merge male & female tours, or draw a line in the sand much like the NBA/ WNBA or the PGA and the WPGA. The sport seems to be stuck somewhere in between.

To me, the simplest explanation seems to be the closest to the truth. Up until now, many of the women just don't have the skills needed to place in the winners circle of major tournaments on a consistent basis. Please note that I did say consistent. And if by chance there are any women who consistently place in the money in any of the larger tours, please tell me who they are and I will stand corrected and offer my apologies to the fishing community.

I do predict that within the next five years or so, a young lady will emerge as a fishing prodigy, a true phenom who will take the sport by storm and dispell all doubts about womens abilities in angling. However, she's not here just yet.

Im not trying to fight with you but I want to comment and give a counter argument/point of view for some of the things you said!

1st off, to say that women have the same opportunities as men, in the sport of tournament bass fishing, is totally inaccurate! To start with, there is a huge gender stereotype in society that says, "Women dont fish!" There are probably lots of women that would have enjoyed fishing, and might have had the skills to do good, if only they got to participate! However, we live in a society that says, "Fishing is for men," which discourages women from getting involved!

We are all part of this cycle in our society. Its not malicious or mean, its just embedded in our brains subconsciously! For instace, I like to do things to thank my business customers. Some are men, and a few are women. Untill now I didnt realize that I never offer to take the women fishing or hunting, like I do with the men. For the women, I always bring them flowers or give them gift certificates to get their nails and toes done! Maybe some of these ladies would like to go fishing if I asked?

I could go on an on about different society based stereotypes that would discourage women to get into competitive angleing, but lets move on!

2nd, I garuntee you that women have a much harder time being taken seriously for sponsorships, based on the society views mentioned above! If you want to become a big time tourny competitor, it takes more than skill and smarts, it also takes lots of money $$$ There is a big correlation between the top anglers and who is the most funded! Now, if you have two people applying to a company for a sponsorship but only one opening, and one applicant is male and the other female; who do you think is going to get the nod? Your being naive if you think that they would give it to the women! 99.9% of the time it will go to the man.

Third, there is a large group of men within the tourny population that do not want to fish against women for whatever reason. Go back and look at some of the comments made by elite series pros when the first woman was in the Classic. I cant believe that there was not a backlash to the sport because of this! If I was a woman I would not feel comfortable fishing along side people that did not want me there. That is a possible reason for choosing to create all-women events!

Now, if fishing were a highly physical sport such as football, basketball, baseball, boxing, hockey, etc.; then I would agree that it is a lack of athletic ability that keeps them from competing with the men! However, fishing doesnt take hardly a bit of athletic ability. For pete sakes, there is a guy with no arms or legs that fishes awesome. They did an ESPN special on him a few yrs ago and he fishes high level tournys and does well!

Tourny Fishing is about finesse, intelligence, patience, confidence, creativity, game planning, time management, and many other traits that have nothing to do with physical strenght or skill! All of these can easily be possesed by a women!

The fact that women are not in this sport and succeding is merely a reflection of the ideas of our society!

stratos 375 reply :

thank you Sir for your opposing point of view, I understand what you are saying.

"stereotypes, discomfort, and discouragement" are not things that can physically stop someone from entering a tourney, nor do they have anything whatsoever to do with fishing ability. If they have the desire and commitment, I doubt any of the above mentioned would stand in their way. These things would only tend to make me try harder, but that's just me.

If women let things like this stand in their way, they still wouldn't be driving, smoking or voting or holding CEO positions.

As far as sponsors, another non factor. I've never seen an entry form that required sponsors. Sponsors have to be earned, the're not given out based on looks or popularity.

There are many hard working people on these tours that don't have sponsors.

The addage that seems to apply here is " if they could have, they would have."

Over & out on this one.

Glenn reply :

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Close to 40 classics and only two women have fished in them? When the top names in fishing are mentioned, rarely is a woman mentioned. That fact alone speaks volumes.

Stratos 375 - it appears you were not aware that women were not even ALLOWED to fish in B.A.S.S. tournaments until 1991 (if memory serves me right).

Talk about discrimination!

So the women said "Screw you!" and ventured off on their own and created their own circuits - and I don't blame them! And when they did finally open it up to the women, the were either already involved in other circuits, or too PO'd to care. That's why you don't see women's names in the B.A.S.S. archives.

It's only now that relations are just beginning to thaw, and you're starting to see more and more women getting involved in co-ed tournaments.

So your reasoning based upon "fact" is completely off-base once you understand the reasons behind your "fact".

And a woman recently finished ahead of many of the top names at the Classic - that fact alone speaks volumes.

b.Lee reply :

In regards to other sports, Golf and Basketball are different than fishing. There have been many articles in regards to the athleticism of Women and Men and why there is a LPGA (not a WPGA) and PGA. Not taking anything away from Women, but women physically cannot drive (drive the ball) as hard as some of the men, so the competition would not be fair. Hence why there are Ladies tee boxes and ladies sized basketballs.

Its like Lebron James and Lisa Leslie playing one on one, You kidding me?

I am happy that women even have a division to play in, but this isn't BASS fishing.

In bass fishing there is an even playing field for women and men. So I don't see why they can't just fish together

To me and me only, it seems they are egotistical and want to keep it male dominated. Plain and simple.

Sorry Glenn if this crosses the line as far as forum rules are concerned, if ESPN and BASS are as money hungry as we think they are, they sure are missing out on a lot of potential sponsors from Companies. Like Gillette, Make-up, Shampoos. I know this generalizes a bit but seriously the money they could bring in with more viewers and more sponsors.

SkeetyCCTX reply :

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thank you Sir for your opposing point of view, I understand what you are saying.
"stereotypes, discomfort, and discouragement" are not things that can physically stop someone from entering a tourney, nor do they have anything whatsoever to do with fishing ability. If they have the desire and commitment, I doubt any of the above mentioned would stand in their way. These things would only tend to make me try harder, but that's just me.

If women let things like this stand in their way, they still wouldn't be driving, smoking or voting or holding CEO positions.

As far as sponsors, another non factor. I've never seen an entry form that required sponsors. Sponsors have to be earned, the're not given out based on looks or popularity.

There are many hard working people on these tours that don't have sponsors.

The addage that seems to apply here is " if they could have, they would have."

Over & out on this one.

Again, not trying to fight with you, but you are talking about things that you could never get a true perspective on unless you are a woman!

The effects of stereotypes, gender roles/expectations in society, and the likes are very real! It is easy to say, "Just go out and do it," when you are not in their position. A rich white kid who went to prep schools and grew up around educated people has a much better chance of going to college than a poor black kid that grew up in the projects surrounded by drug addicts and violence! Sure, you dont want to encourage anyone to use their circustances as an excuse to not better themeselves, but to say that there is truely equal opportunity is just plain not right!

Sure, there are Women in high positions around the world, but that is the exception and purely anecdotal! There is a glass ceiling for most women and it doesnt matter how hard they try, they just cant pass through it! Then, the ones that do, are usually treated with contempt by their male peers. Example, the fellow anglers at the classic. Or, have you ever noticed how when there is a male boss that is tough and demanding; people respect him and just say he has high expectations and no-nonsense! However, a women that manages the same way would be called a BI$%#! Think about it, Im sure it will hit home if your honest!

As for saying that you dont need sponsors to fish tournys, are you kidding? Do you fish tournys? If you are on a serious trail, and not independently rich; you must have a sposor of some sort. Not only to be competitive but to just fish! Do you realize how much money it takes to fish the Bassmaster Elite Series. $40 k truck, $40 k boat! Then, you have thousands of dollars in fuel, food, and lodgeing expenses to cover the cross country trail! Then, think about tackle and equipment. Then, you got entry fees, which are thousands of dollars per event for the elite series! Then, you got break downs and emergencies! Take in mind that you cant have a job to pay for these things cause you are off fishing! Trust me, you need sponsors; or a trust fund untill you start winning!

Now take this in mind! Who is going to take care of the children that you have left at home, which society expects you (women) to take care of!

My point is that you cant just throw statements out there like that because you are not a woman and have no idea what it is like to live in the opposite sex's world! Be a little more sensitive! Im a conservative and am no feminist or anything, but I try to be a little sensitive towards the underdogs and I try not to open my mouth against things that I couldnt possibly understand!

Bank Beater reply :

What this sport needs is a Danika Patrik (sp?). Belive me if the sponsors find a woman that has the ability to compete with these guys They will throw money at her. Inturn having a woman compete at the elite leval will show girls around the world that they can do it and it is worth while. Some of these girls will grow up to be tournament fisherman and as more flood into the sport they will get more acceptance. I belive that this is what BASS was trying to do when allowing the champion from the WBASS a classic birth. Give girls someone to look up to in the sport. Most of the complaints that I heard from the elites was that she was given a classic birth from a trail that they did not have access to not that she was a woman.

I am a nurse and am not gay. I agree that perceptions and social roles need to be changed. The interesting thing is that 1: men don't complain that they wern't encouraged to play with dolls and most woman (my wife included)don't complain that they wern't encouraged to fish. Until that changes I don't see much change coming about.

Buy the way my 7 seven year old daughter has decided that she wants to learn to fish this year to be like her DAD. I cant wait to spend time with her on the water and maybee turn her into Danika Patrik, if she wants. 8-)

SkeetyCCTX reply :

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What this sport needs is a Danika Patrik (sp?). Belive me if the sponsors find a woman that has the ability to compete with these guys They will throw money at her. Inturn having a woman compete at the elite leval will show girls around the world that they can do it and it is worth while. Some of these girls will grow up to be tournament fisherman and as more flood into the sport they will get more acceptance. I belive that this is what BASS was trying to do when allowing the champion from the WBASS a classic birth. Give girls someone to look up to in the sport. Most of the complaints that I heard from the elites was that she was given a classic birth from a trail that they did not have access to not that she was a woman.
I am a nurse and am not gay. I agree that perceptions and social roles need to be changed. The interesting thing is that 1: men don't complain that they wern't encouraged to play with dolls and most woman (my wife included)don't complain that they wern't encouraged to fish. Until that changes I don't see much change coming about.

Buy the way my 7 seven year old daughter has decided that she wants to learn to fish this year to be like her DAD. I cant wait to spend time with her on the water and maybee turn her into Danika Patrik, if she wants. 8-)

I appreciate your point of view but let me remind you, you cant point to the example of yourself and wife as the rule for everybody! Because you or her dont have a problem with societies expectations of your roles, does not mean that everyone else feels the same.

Beside that, you have to understand why you, your wife, and a lot of other people dont complain about gender expectations. These expectations have been so engrained in our heads for hundreds of years, that we just except them as things that we cant change and make do with the hand we have been dealt. Plus, most people do not like to go against the grain and be labled as "weird" or "different!" If you were a girl, and most of your friends were playing with dolls, dont you think that you might just do the same as to not seem like the oddball, even though you might rather go fishing!

Anyways, im not trying to lecture you, I just want you to think outside the box on this issue cause it is not as cut and dry, plain and simple as some people try and make it look! I think it is cool that you are going to take your little girl fishing and hope yall have fun! Target something that is easy to catch to get her hooked and make the trip about her. I had to do that yesterday for some customers that were 1st timers! Man. its hard to not fish yourself, but its still enjoybable to see them have fun! Good Luck!

Koop reply :

Not only female, but also young AND an amazing angler I felt needed mentioning is Kim Bain. There are plenty of females in the circuits I fish that will keep anyone I know on their tip toes. I know I've been put to shame by female anglers quite often. Last year I fished a tournament that I knew I had a very strong finish if not a win, weighed in a 18-4 bag the first day only to be shadowed by a good (female) angler friend who brought in a 20-9 bag and I know it wont be the last time she does it to me!

mrbassky reply :

Women are capable of being just as good as men there just arent as many out there bass fishing. There arent many black or mexican pro anglers either that doesnt mean they cant fish. There are several japanese pros at the pro level. Why? because their dream was to fish at the pro level, if more girls dreamed of fishing at the pro level you would see more. For a female angler to get great she needs to compete at the highest possible level to start with thats the elite series. In the past I could see how sexist men could have discouraged women from competing but I cant see anyone trying that these days.

SkeetyCCTX reply :

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Women are capable of being just as good as men there just arent as many out there bass fishing. There arent many black or mexican pro anglers either that doesnt mean they cant fish. There are several japanese pros at the pro level. Why? because their dream was to fish at the pro level, if more girls dreamed of fishing at the pro level you would see more. For a female angler to get great she needs to compete at the highest possible level to start with thats the elite series. In the past I could see how sexist men could have discouraged women from competing but I cant see anyone trying that these days.

Those goes back to gender roles in society, stereotypes, and other society based attitudes about "who" should fish and who should stick to cooking, basketball, or some other endevor! There are also some socio-economic barriers for minorities!

For women, there is a huge problem with gender stereotypes and expectations. Many people, men and women, believe that women "cant" fish; making it hard for them to get sponsorships and support needed to fish major tourny trails.

On the flip side, our society discourages women from fishing from birth, based on the "accepted" idea of what women "should" be doing! Society says that fishing is a man thing! Women are supposed to be cooking, cleaning, raising babies, cheerleading, or partaking in feminine activities that dont involve getting dirty! This society based view is so deep that even women think it! This is why most women never get involved in fishing, even though they may have loved it. Nobody wants to be the oddball, so they just go along with what society says they should be doing! Its ugly but true!

As for minorities, they face a different but similiar set of stereotypes and race based expectations, as well as socio-economic disadvantages! You know as well as I do, that most white anglers think that most minorities are pot-lickers and meathunters, not skilled fisherman! This stereotype is based out of a socio-economic need for minorities to meat hunt, not because they necessarily dont want to sport fish! Never the less, the stereotype is there and I garuntee that it shuts down doors for them.

Then, you have society expectations about what certain groups of individuals are suppossed to participate in. For instance, blacks are not openly encouraged to get into bass fishing because of their tremendous success in more athletic based sports (football, basketball, etc.)! Therefore, they are pushed more in that direction! Then, there is an inner-cultural thing that says that bass fishing is not cool! It is a fact that the black pop is heavily influenced by the hip-hop movement, which revolves around sports such as basketball and football! So, their more gifted individuals persue things other than bass fishing! I used the black race as an example but Im sure you can apply this to other races, but with different situations!

The bigges factor minorities face, however, is that of socio-economic! It is a fact, that the majority of minorities in this country are historically poor! That is not an opinion, it is fact, look it up! Now, lets be honest; competitive bass fishing is not cheap! I make almost $70 k a year and still have a hard time keeping up with my tourny expenses. Now how do you think that a poor black or Mexican kid is going to be able to participate without any money? If there is a little money, how do you go off and spend it on sport fishing when there are other more crucial needs? This is why most of their fishing is generally potlicking from the bank for meat fish! Its not that they dont like sport fishing, but rather it is more benificial for them to get dinner!

Furthermore, with a low economic status also comes things like drug use, lack of education, and more importantly; single parent families. Usually the one parent is the mom, who doesnt fish for reasons already stated. So, who then is there to get them interested, take them, or teach them to fish?

My point is that there are deep reasons why we dont see more women or minorities competing in bass fishing! Its not that they dont have the skill sets, its largely due to society based restraints, which is sad! Now I am a conservative but I do see the flip side of things and have a deeper understanding of a lot of issues. Things are not always cut and dry. These people simply are not given an adequate chance to participate and thats why we dont see more of them. Hopefully it will change, but I seriously doubt it will on any large scale level!

Tin reply :

Wow, well put from a sociological standing! It truly does have nothing to do with limitations on ability like there could be in a sports where strength and size matter, but your social location and economic status. I think a lot of us forget how priviliege (specifically white privilege) has helped a lot of us get where we are and afford expensive hobbies (such as bass fishing).

Here is another little or big thing rather, look up "The Mommy Tax".

b.Lee reply :

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Not only female, but also young AND an amazing angler I felt needed mentioning is Kim Bain. There are plenty of females in the circuits I fish that will keep anyone I know on their tip toes. I know I've been put to shame by female anglers quite often. Last year I fished a tournament that I knew I had a very strong finish if not a win, weighed in a 18-4 bag the first day only to be shadowed by a good (female) angler friend who brought in a 20-9 bag and I know it wont be the last time she does it to me!

Its ok Koop that bluegill swimbait will produce for you this year LOL

I agree though, never under estimate anyone, women or men. Be you're own competitor and assume everyone is fair game.

oteymc reply :

Just one comment on the sponsorship discussions. I am not an expert, but I have worked in this area for several years.

I think that for every company that would not consider a female angler for a sponsorship, there would be three others who would be excited to have the chance to be associated with someone who is outside the norm. So in some ways, it could be an advantage.

This does not discount the many disadvantages a female would encounter trying to break into a sport considered to be a "man's world".

SkeetyCCTX reply :

Good point, but think of it this way! It is a business! Even though the business owner may be an equal oportunist, he/she is still going to to what is best for business. Now, it is a fact that fishing is primarily a "male" sport! Your consumers are males, and many of them are from the "good ol boy" type! These are the people that must be targeted.

So, if you have a man and a women vying for a spot on your team, to represent your products; it is a no brainer! You have to go with the male if you want to advertise to your target audiance! For instance, you would not sponsor a man to promote "lipstick!" You would go with a woman because lipstick is a womans product!

Now, it is going to take a big, financially secure company to go out and start giving women more sponsorships. It would take time, but maybe a larger women target audiance could be attracted, then it would be profitable for other companies to start sponsoring women.

This is just a business point of view of the argument, but it still has roots in the main issues of stereotypes, prejudices, gender roles, and society!

oteymc reply :

I understand what you are saying Sceety, I just don't see being a woman as a detriment to acquiring sponsorships. I see it either as a non-issue or an advantage. You would naturally stand out from the rest of the anglers, if you were even moderately successful, there would be a great story line.

Some one else brought up Danika Patrick, look at her sponsors - 7 Eleven, Honda, Tissot watches, Izod, Airtran, Go Daddy, Goodyear, Chevy.

I don't see any lipstick companies.

Sure, you would have to find a company that sees the value in a sponsorship, and you would need to find a way to fit their marketing mix and help them spread the message they want the public to know about their company. But really, how is that different than a man seeking sponsors?

Again, I see how it would be difficult for a woman to break into a man's sport, but I do not feel that in this day and age finding sponsors would be more difficult for a woman than a man. It is going to be difficult for both of them.

For a man, how do you stand out from the crowd and get attention for your sponsors? Winning is the most obvious way. If you were a woman out there competing against men in an equal playing field, just think of all the extra media opportunities you could take advantage of.

Would there be companies that say, you are not really what we're looking for? Absolutely. Would there be companies that said that same thing to a man? Absolutely.

I make deals for sponsorships every day. We are always saying what is special about this individual/event/group that would make them stand out from the crowd?

Also, these days you are just as likely to deal with a woman who is in the position to make marketing decisions and media buys for a company.

The other things that would make it difficult I totally understand. Sorry for the long post.

Tin reply :

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Some one else brought up Danika Patrick, look at her sponsors - 7 Eleven, Honda, Tissot watches, Izod, Airtran, Go Daddy, Goodyear, Chevy.

Men are the targets and sex sells. Just think of how she is portrayed in those Go Daddy commercials.

oteymc reply :

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Some one else brought up Danika Patrick, look at her sponsors - 7 Eleven, Honda, Tissot watches, Izod, Airtran, Go Daddy, Goodyear, Chevy.

Men are the targets and sex sells. Just think of how she is portrayed in those Go Daddy commercials.

Well that is true in the case of Go Daddy. That also supports my point, Go Daddy probably wouldn't have picked a man for this approach. I don't pretend to know if they had this strategy before or after aligning with Danika. They may have had a different approach if they were aligned with a male driver, or they may have had this strategy and were looking for the right woman to come along.

I don't think that sex is the strategy of all her sponsors, nor do I think a woman angler would need to use that approach to acquire sponsors.

This is one advantage, though not the one I was thinking of when I made the previous post.

My point is there are a lot of reasons a company would chose to sponsor an individual (or not). I don't personally see being a female as a disadvantage in the area of sponsorships.

SkeetyCCTX reply :

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I understand what you are saying Sceety, I just don't see being a woman as a detriment to acquiring sponsorships. I see it either as a non-issue or an advantage. You would naturally stand out from the rest of the anglers, if you were even moderately successful, there would be a great story line.
Some one else brought up Danika Patrick, look at her sponsors - 7 Eleven, Honda, Tissot watches, Izod, Airtran, Go Daddy, Goodyear, Chevy.

I don't see any lipstick companies.

Sure, you would have to find a company that sees the value in a sponsorship, and you would need to find a way to fit their marketing mix and help them spread the message they want the public to know about their company. But really, how is that different than a man seeking sponsors?

Again, I see how it would be difficult for a woman to break into a man's sport, but I do not feel that in this day and age finding sponsors would be more difficult for a woman than a man. It is going to be difficult for both of them.

For a man, how do you stand out from the crowd and get attention for your sponsors? Winning is the most obvious way. If you were a woman out there competing against men in an equal playing field, just think of all the extra media opportunities you could take advantage of.

Would there be companies that say, you are not really what we're looking for? Absolutely. Would there be companies that said that same thing to a man? Absolutely.

I make deals for sponsorships every day. We are always saying what is special about this individual/event/group that would make them stand out from the crowd?

Also, these days you are just as likely to deal with a woman who is in the position to make marketing decisions and media buys for a company.

The other things that would make it difficult I totally understand. Sorry for the long post.

Otey, I understand that you think you have an example, but it is purely anectdotal and does not represent anything on a large scale for women. Danika Patrick is the only Women out there and the only example that most people can give, thats sad, considering that she also competes in a sport were a man's advantages in physical qualities dont matter! After, Danika there is no other woman in that idustry that you can mention!

You just cant point to one example and use it as the basis for an argument on a issue this large scale!

Furthermore, all of Danika is at the highest possible level of her sport and all of those sponsors are huge fortune 500 type companies that can take a risk on sponsoring someone that will target an untraditional audiance with and un-traditional approach!

Trust me, the avg mid level woman bass fisherman has a very tough time finding sponsorships from fishing companies that are way smaller than Honda, Chevy, Goodyear, and other business Titans! I garuntee you that a Tackle company struggleing to make it in this economy would be very catious on taking on a woman because their target base is largely male! In fact, many of the top name male anlgers on the FLW and Elite series lost their sponsors this past year!

Now, if there was a large population of women anlgers out there, then things would be different. Just like in Surfing, where woman are flourishing and getting lots of sponsorships! But, bass fishing is just not that diverse yet

My point is that you can not point to one example and use it as a reason to base an argument on an issue like this. This is not the norm and does not represent what is going on as a whole!

oteymc reply :

Sceety,

I am not trying to say that I'm right and everyone is wrong that doesn't agree with my opinion. It is just my opinion. I could be wrong, I am a lot.

I used Danika as an example because someone else brought her up.

I am not trying to say that everything that has happened to her applies to every female, but it is a real live example. You said that companies would prefer to use a male to market male products, and she is one (although only one) example that has sponsors selling products to males as well as females. Then Tin pointed out that "sex sells". I agree with Tin, and if you are trying to sell me with sex, you had better send the message by using a woman. That was not the intent of my point, however.

You make very good points. I can certainly understand your point of view, I just have a conflicting opinion.

I don't believe the size of the company discounts my point at all, some one will be held accountable if the marketing strategy is not working, no matter the level of spending, or the funds available.

You "guarantee" things that you do not have specific examples of either (even one). I concede that a female seeking sponsorships to be a professional angler would have a hard time when first starting out, especially in this economic climate.

Would you also concede that a male in the same situation would also have a similar hard time?

Can I imagine a scenario where a company would pass on a female because a male would better fit how they wanted to market their product? You bet.

I can also imagine a scenario where the opposite would be true, that is all I am trying to say.

A female could use it to her advantage with the right mindset, some out of the box thinking, and determination to seek out the companies that might fit her into their marketing strategies, or who are looking to conquest a demographic that the female angler would have as a captive audience. There are things a woman could offer a company which a man may not be able to.

There are also things that are attractive to sponsors that have nothing to do with gender. What if this angler had an active facebook fan page with 100,000 fans who regularly interact, whom the angler could tell the sponsor's story to on a daily basis. What would that have to do with gender?

Do I really know if the perceived advantages would out weigh the perceived disadvantages in the world of marketing and sponsorships? NO. It is just my perception that there would be a few advantages.

I am not trying to be a know it all or say my opinion is the only one that counts.

I am not basing my entire opinion on this one example, merely using this one example to back up my opinion.

We could go back and forth on this forever. I respect your opinion, I just don't agree on this one point. Please respect mine. We don't have to agree to have an educated discussion.

There are many things in life and professional Bass fishing that I can clearly see would be a disadvantage to a woman. It is my opinion that seeking out sponsors would not be one of them.

I totally agree with most of your other points, especially the attitudes in our society that would discourage females to become a professional angler in the first place.

This is entirely too long, and I apologize.

Tin reply :

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Some one else brought up Danika Patrick, look at her sponsors - 7 Eleven, Honda, Tissot watches, Izod, Airtran, Go Daddy, Goodyear, Chevy.

Men are the targets and sex sells. Just think of how she is portrayed in those Go Daddy commercials.

Well that is true in the case of Go Daddy. That also supports my point, Go Daddy probably wouldn't have picked a man for this approach. I don't pretend to know if they had this strategy before or after aligning with Danika. They may have had a different approach if they were aligned with a male driver, or they may have had this strategy and were looking for the right woman to come along.

I don't think that sex is the strategy of all her sponsors, nor do I think a woman angler would need to use that approach to acquire sponsors.

This is one advantage, though not the one I was thinking of when I made the previous post.

My point is there are a lot of reasons a company would chose to sponsor an individual (or not). I don't personally see being a female as a disadvantage in the area of sponsorships.

How is it not an advantage to have a very attractive women who competes in a sport loved by males to sell their tires, trucks, clothing, or watches? All products mostly purchased by males. Would they have an unattractive woman pushing these products or Billie Jean King? :

oteymc reply :

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Some one else brought up Danika Patrick, look at her sponsors - 7 Eleven, Honda, Tissot watches, Izod, Airtran, Go Daddy, Goodyear, Chevy.

Men are the targets and sex sells. Just think of how she is portrayed in those Go Daddy commercials.

Well that is true in the case of Go Daddy. That also supports my point, Go Daddy probably wouldn't have picked a man for this approach. I don't pretend to know if they had this strategy before or after aligning with Danika. They may have had a different approach if they were aligned with a male driver, or they may have had this strategy and were looking for the right woman to come along.

I don't think that sex is the strategy of all her sponsors, nor do I think a woman angler would need to use that approach to acquire sponsors.

This is one advantage, though not the one I was thinking of when I made the previous post.

My point is there are a lot of reasons a company would chose to sponsor an individual (or not). I don't personally see being a female as a disadvantage in the area of sponsorships.

How is it not an advantage to have a very attractive women who competes in a sport loved by males to sell their tires, trucks, clothing, or watches? All products mostly purchased by males. Would they have an unattractive woman pushing these products or Billie Jean King? :

I agree

Tin reply :

My idea is that the only way anyone male or female is placed in an ad is because of their appearance or they're reliability (and even then they will look for the most attractive person they can). You don't see fat hair guys standing shirtless in a mirror using a Gilette Fushion just like you wouldn't see anything but older people on the Life Alert commercials.. Sex sells and advertisers know this. When a super-model like fisherwoman comes about and has some success she will be in all the magazines, imo. Kim Bain experienced some of this when she was in the Classic a couple years ago.

Ok, now call me a typical male or a pig now ladies.

fishfordollars reply :

Congratulations go out to:

Debra Hengst for a 37th place finish at Amistad. She beat out a lot of good fishermen to finish up this high.

You can add her to the list of women that can hold her own with the guys.

Great job Debra.

SkeetyCCTX reply :

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Sceety,
I am not trying to say that I'm right and everyone is wrong that doesn't agree with my opinion. It is just my opinion. I could be wrong, I am a lot.

I used Danika as an example because someone else brought her up.

I am not trying to say that everything that has happened to her applies to every female, but it is a real live example. You said that companies would prefer to use a male to market male products, and she is one (although only one) example that has sponsors selling products to males as well as females. Then Tin pointed out that "sex sells". I agree with Tin, and if you are trying to sell me with sex, you had better send the message by using a woman. That was not the intent of my point, however.

You make very good points. I can certainly understand your point of view, I just have a conflicting opinion.

I don't believe the size of the company discounts my point at all, some one will be held accountable if the marketing strategy is not working, no matter the level of spending, or the funds available.

You "guarantee" things that you do not have specific examples of either (even one). I concede that a female seeking sponsorships to be a professional angler would have a hard time when first starting out, especially in this economic climate.

Would you also concede that a male in the same situation would also have a similar hard time?

Can I imagine a scenario where a company would pass on a female because a male would better fit how they wanted to market their product? You bet.

I can also imagine a scenario where the opposite would be true, that is all I am trying to say.

A female could use it to her advantage with the right mindset, some out of the box thinking, and determination to seek out the companies that might fit her into their marketing strategies, or who are looking to conquest a demographic that the female angler would have as a captive audience. There are things a woman could offer a company which a man may not be able to.

There are also things that are attractive to sponsors that have nothing to do with gender. What if this angler had an active facebook fan page with 100,000 fans who regularly interact, whom the angler could tell the sponsor's story to on a daily basis. What would that have to do with gender?

Do I really know if the perceived advantages would out weigh the perceived disadvantages in the world of marketing and sponsorships? NO. It is just my perception that there would be a few advantages.

I am not trying to be a know it all or say my opinion is the only one that counts.

I am not basing my entire opinion on this one example, merely using this one example to back up my opinion.

We could go back and forth on this forever. I respect your opinion, I just don't agree on this one point. Please respect mine. We don't have to agree to have an educated discussion.

There are many things in life and professional Bass fishing that I can clearly see would be a disadvantage to a woman. It is my opinion that seeking out sponsors would not be one of them.

I totally agree with most of your other points, especially the attitudes in our society that would discourage females to become a professional angler in the first place.

This is entirely too long, and I apologize.

First off, nothing I said to you should be taken personally! We are just talking about our opinions on tough issues and I dont judge you for yours! I like these kinds of arguments and I dont take them personally or make character judgements based on them.

That being said, I will say if I disagree with you or if I think your point of view is misguided. That being said, I have no trouble with you doing the same, though I might then try to back up my reasoning!

Yes, I do believe that there is reverse situations in which every type of person will face some sort of disadvantage based on the situation. Like I said, a lipstick company probably wouldnt give a man a chance at advertising their products. This is just a crazy example to push my point across!

You dont have to explain yourself to me cause I just dont take this stuff personally. I think its kinda fun and I like that the people on this forum dont get all worked up over various opinions like this. I have been on other forums where this would have broken down to name calling and personal attacks a long time ago. So, In my book yall are all pretty good people.

Dont worry, we're cool and I respect your opinion though I might not necessarily agree! Have a good one!

Matt Fly reply :

Skeety,

you mentioned alot of the men got upset at the two ladies because they didn't qualify the same as the men. You thought they(the guys) were wrong for their feelings as you mentioned, and you said that it makes us look racist and redneck. Well the last part of your reply on the first page, you said,

"you think they should qualify like the men do". LOL too funny, whats that make you?

Skeety, this is the Super Bowl of bassin, the most media you'll see at an BASS event all year.

What does media mean, camera time for sponsors, 50 less guys to compete with for camera time.

This could mean re-signing a new sponsor or an old sponsor. This could mean a rookie coming back or having to quit cause he couldn't get enough sponsors to afford it another year.

What did having a woman in the classic do to fellow competitors? It took valuable camera time away from a guy who beat out 50 other guys to earn that extra exposure time. So, yeah, I think the guys did have valid reason to be upset, just not for the same reason as you, it was a little deeper than qualifying.

Flip the script, ladies don't fish for alot of money to begin with. Do you think the ladies would be upset at KVD, AOY from the mens side, for taking there Prize money or camera time away from them?

And for the talent pool comment. There have been enough ladies events on some common waters to both the men and ladies, results will show the ladies will need to raise their weights up alot to hang with the men.

Ladies events don't show them on the same playing field and thats not meant to belittle womens abilities, it based on ladies events and actual weights.

oteymc reply :

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Sceety,
I am not trying to say that I'm right and everyone is wrong that doesn't agree with my opinion. It is just my opinion. I could be wrong, I am a lot.

I used Danika as an example because someone else brought her up.

I am not trying to say that everything that has happened to her applies to every female, but it is a real live example. You said that companies would prefer to use a male to market male products, and she is one (although only one) example that has sponsors selling products to males as well as females. Then Tin pointed out that "sex sells". I agree with Tin, and if you are trying to sell me with sex, you had better send the message by using a woman. That was not the intent of my point, however.

You make very good points. I can certainly understand your point of view, I just have a conflicting opinion.

I don't believe the size of the company discounts my point at all, some one will be held accountable if the marketing strategy is not working, no matter the level of spending, or the funds available.

You "guarantee" things that you do not have specific examples of either (even one). I concede that a female seeking sponsorships to be a professional angler would have a hard time when first starting out, especially in this economic climate.

Would you also concede that a male in the same situation would also have a similar hard time?

Can I imagine a scenario where a company would pass on a female because a male would better fit how they wanted to market their product? You bet.

I can also imagine a scenario where the opposite would be true, that is all I am trying to say.

A female could use it to her advantage with the right mindset, some out of the box thinking, and determination to seek out the companies that might fit her into their marketing strategies, or who are looking to conquest a demographic that the female angler would have as a captive audience. There are things a woman could offer a company which a man may not be able to.

There are also things that are attractive to sponsors that have nothing to do with gender. What if this angler had an active facebook fan page with 100,000 fans who regularly interact, whom the angler could tell the sponsor's story to on a daily basis. What would that have to do with gender?

Do I really know if the perceived advantages would out weigh the perceived disadvantages in the world of marketing and sponsorships? NO. It is just my perception that there would be a few advantages.

I am not trying to be a know it all or say my opinion is the only one that counts.

I am not basing my entire opinion on this one example, merely using this one example to back up my opinion.

We could go back and forth on this forever. I respect your opinion, I just don't agree on this one point. Please respect mine. We don't have to agree to have an educated discussion.

There are many things in life and professional Bass fishing that I can clearly see would be a disadvantage to a woman. It is my opinion that seeking out sponsors would not be one of them.

I totally agree with most of your other points, especially the attitudes in our society that would discourage females to become a professional angler in the first place.

This is entirely too long, and I apologize.

First off, nothing I said to you should be taken personally! We are just talking about our opinions on tough issues and I dont judge you for yours! I like these kinds of arguments and I dont take them personally or make character judgements based on them.

That being said, I will say if I disagree with you or if I think your point of view is misguided. That being said, I have no trouble with you doing the same, though I might then try to back up my reasoning!

Yes, I do believe that there is reverse situations in which every type of person will face some sort of disadvantage based on the situation. Like I said, a lipstick company probably wouldnt give a man a chance at advertising their products. This is just a crazy example to push my point across!

You dont have to explain yourself to me cause I just dont take this stuff personally. I think its kinda fun and I like that the people on this forum dont get all worked up over various opinions like this. I have been on other forums where this would have broken down to name calling and personal attacks a long time ago. So, In my book yall are all pretty good people.

Dont worry, we're cool and I respect your opinion though I might not necessarily agree! Have a good one!

Thanks, I feel the same way.

Glenn reply :

Quote
Congratulations go out to:
Debra Hengst for a 37th place finish at Amistad. She beat out a lot of good fishermen to finish up this high.

You can add her to the list of women that can hold her own with the guys.

Great job Debra.

Totally agree! It's amazing (to some) how well the ladies do when they get to fish the same lakes at the same time as the men. I would've loved to have seen the elite series fish the same schedule the WBT did. The weights would have been just as low. :

fishfordollars reply :

Quote

Quote
Congratulations go out to:
Debra Hengst for a 37th place finish at Amistad. She beat out a lot of good fishermen to finish up this high.

You can add her to the list of women that can hold her own with the guys.

Great job Debra.

Totally agree! It's amazing (to some) how well the ladies do when they get to fish the same lakes at the same time as the men. I would've loved to have seen the elite series fish the same schedule the WBT did. The weights would have been just as low. :

Exactly, they were put on lakes at the last minute due to circumstances out of their control, and during off peak times of the year. Anyone would have had problems putting together a decent string of fish.

SkeetyCCTX reply :

Quote
Skeety,
you mentioned alot of the men got upset at the two ladies because they didn't qualify the same as the men. You thought they(the guys) were wrong for their feelings as you mentioned, and you said that it makes us look racist and redneck. Well the last part of your reply on the first page, you said,

"you think they should qualify like the men do". LOL too funny, whats that make you?

Skeety, this is the Super Bowl of bassin, the most media you'll see at an BASS event all year.

What does media mean, camera time for sponsors, 50 less guys to compete with for camera time.

This could mean re-signing a new sponsor or an old sponsor. This could mean a rookie coming back or having to quit cause he couldn't get enough sponsors to afford it another year.

What did having a woman in the classic do to fellow competitors? It took valuable camera time away from a guy who beat out 50 other guys to earn that extra exposure time. So, yeah, I think the guys did have valid reason to be upset, just not for the same reason as you, it was a little deeper than qualifying.

Flip the script, ladies don't fish for alot of money to begin with. Do you think the ladies would be upset at KVD, AOY from the mens side, for taking there Prize money or camera time away from them?

And for the talent pool comment. There have been enough ladies events on some common waters to both the men and ladies, results will show the ladies will need to raise their weights up alot to hang with the men.

Ladies events don't show them on the same playing field and thats not meant to belittle womens abilities, it based on ladies events and actual weights.

Sorry, but your not very bright are you? I dont understand what you are trying to do here and shouldnt have to explain myself, because my quote was very understandable to educated people but I will break it down for you so you wont have to LoL!

Here goes: I said that I thought that some of the public words used by some of the men during the classic, about the lady, were very distastefull! Now, I watched all of this and alot of them claimed they did not like the way that she qualified because it was not through the same trails that they have to fish.

Now, later in my post I did mention that there was a good argument for their stance on the way she qualified! I also said that I would like to see women qualifying the same as men at some point in time!

However, you just picked words, mixed and matched, and took things out of context to try and make me look bad when your the one that is ignorant!

I clearly stated that though the guys had an argument, it wasnt like they took a spot away from the mens field to make room, they created an extra spot! Though they had an argument, I stated that thier feelings seemed to stem more from the fact she was a woman, and that was just an excuse. This argument could have been pushed in a much better manner than which they pushed it.

Now, when I stated that I somewhat agreed about the qualifications issue, I do! However, that in no way puts me in the same category as the guys I am talking about. All that means is that I understand different points of view surround the issue. However, I clearly implied that the way this woman was selected was necessary due to the circumstances. Woman are at a disadvantage in this sport and certain things must be done to bring the situation to an equal level.

So yes, one day I would like to see women qualifying the same way as men, when the playing field is equal though! For right now, however, I agree with the way it was done, though I do understand the point of view of people wanting the same qualifications. But, I will tell these people to sit back and look at the big picture, it has to be done this way to give women a fair shot untill things are more equal for them! Having a femal presence in the classic may now encourage more women to try and qualify, and it may make others more accepting and encourageing to them to do so! Understand?

As for those guys making us look like rednecks, thats on them! KVD didnt make himself look like a stupid redneck and he got asked the same questions. There words were inappropriate, foolish, and their message clear. They did not want a woman there!

P.S. I do not know you or mess with you! Before you try and call me out again to make me look bad, make sure you know what the heck you are talking about! Better yet, just keep quite cause you dont have good comprehension skills!

fishfordollars reply :

skeety, you ain't been around long enough to make the statement "Sorry, but you are not very bright are you".

You're the newbi here stiring the pot. Matt fly has been around a long time and never been acused of that. Tons of information and answers from him that you couldn't even speak on.

Plenty of ways to get a point across without that. Grow up, back up your statements with facts, and earn your respect. You don't get it by signing on and posting as a newbi. Yes, with 82 post you're still a newbi.

roadwarrior reply :

Geez...Where's Walker, Texas Ranger?

Heated discussion is fine, but it doesn't need to

get personal. I did not edit the post. I have met

Matt Fly, a long time member, and he can handle

it. However, going forward, posts will be edited

or deleted.

-Kent a.k.a. roadwarrior

Global Moderator

stratos 375 reply :

I see the thread isn't quite locked down yet, so I'd like to make a parting comment. It strays slightly from the OP's topic, however I'd like to get it off my chest.

Skeety,

I must have been offline the day you were nominated as spokesman for white anglers across America. In your post # 24 you said that " You know as well as I do, that most white anglers think that most minorities are pot-lickers and meathunters, not skilled fisherman."

I take umbrage with that statement, It's mos' definately not like that up here, so please in the future do not include me or any of my fellow anglers in this neck of the woods with your broad stroked generalization, I don't want to be included in that " most" category.

I'd like to think that we as a group have transcended that boundary many years ago. A few years back I was in a club in Philly, we had a few black members, we went out of our way to make them as welcome as possible, they had a great time being a member we were glad to have them. We all found out in short order that skin color had nothing to do with fishing ability.

No personal offense taken my friend, I just didn't agree with one of your statements, and wanted to make a civilized rebuttal.

If management thinks my post needs editing, I would just prefer that it's deleted in it's entirety.

Catt reply :

Here's just one example of emails between a WOMAN tournament angler and myself on this subject.

Catt: Can you do me a favor got this site and read the following paying attention to a guy named SkeetyCCTX

REEL WOMAN: Educating the populace...one pea brain at a time!!!!!

Catt: What did you think about it?

REEL WOMAN: Enlarging mindsets most times cannot be done with words..it must be experienced. You would not believe the anger the never-fished-with-a-woman partner goes through....until the end of the tournament, when I have been thanked many times for a great day and being a great partner. Yeah, I netted your lunker flawlessly didn't I? lol Yeah, you'll learn how to deal with both of us having limits...And no, I won't tell anyone I boated the first keeper off your spot.....! OMG, you just realized you fished with another fisherman!

Catt: why don't you join Bass Resource?

REEL WOMAN: Why should I join? You mean the forum?....Nah...I am hooked up here on Facebook with the real women anglers who fished WBT and I have met and known for years in all my travels. They know me either as a NJ Youth Director or through my business. I am doing well in my businesses, rods and hook keepers. BTW- I KEPT all of the old site- Our site. Notice the name of my new biz?- REEL WOMAN Prods.

Love-Di (RW)

fishfordollars reply :

Skeety, I guess you have to appologize to one of my partners that I have fished tournaments and roomed with. His name is George Johnson, a past professional basketball player for the old Baltimore team and a stint with the Houston Rockets. he stands 6'11 1/2". Maybe I could introduce you to him one day. You will never meet a nicer guy.

Yes, he can flat out fish.

I'm done now.

SkeetyCCTX reply :

What is that suppossed to mean! I didnt say anything bad about anyone, every post I mad was in defense of all kinds of people being able to fish! I personally think that fishing is a sport in which everyone has the same physical ability to succed and that it is other restraints; such as society views or socio-economic status that keep women or minorities from succeding at competiitve bass fishing! I thought that I clearly stated this but I guess some people just dont comprehend things very well!

Look, Im just giving my opinion on this issue and I was having fun untill certain people started jumping on and personally trying to insult me about stuff that doesnt even make sense!

In no way am I "the spokesman for white fisherman" nor do I want to be! However, Im just calling things the way I see them based on what I have experienced! These arent my feelings, but Im not affraid to talk about it! I think its a major problem and was trying to give yall a logical, educated, socio-economic reason for stereotypes towards minorities. The fact that having a few "Black" members in your bass club is speciall to you illustrates the problem bass fishing has. It shouldnt be a big deal, they shouldnt be treated "specially", it should just be ordinary! But it isnt! Its so unusual that you have to bring it up and use it to show how progressive you are.

Now, if you live in a different part of the country where everything is soooo great, than fine! It probably more likely that you just live in a region where everyone is the same. I'm only speaking about the areas that I have lived, which all have large minority populations. There isnt much outright racism here, but there are a lot of stereotypes, and I was merely trying to discuss them in a logical educated way.

Now, if some of you cant handle that than fine, lets not talk about it anymore! However, I just think its crazy how so many people can completely miss an obvious message! But whatever! I know who I am and am secure in that! I dont need to throw out names of black friends, or the fact that my father is Mexican-American!

I just hate when my words are taken out of context and when people miss a concept that I clearly laid out! Its cool though! Yall guys just have a good day and be carefull out there!

SkeetyCCTX reply :

Continued.......

Quote
skeety, you ain't been around long enough to make the statement "Sorry, but you are not very bright are you".
You're the newbi here stiring the pot. Matt fly has been around a long time and never been acused of that. Tons of information and answers from him that you couldn't even speak on.

Plenty of ways to get a point across without that. Grow up, back up your statements with facts, and earn your respect. You don't get it by signing on and posting as a newbi. Yes, with 82 post you're still a newbi.

Look, I dont care how long somebody has been sitting at a computer and posting comments. If the person calls me out and makes a ridiculous comment, taking me way out of context, then I will address the issue! I absolutely can not stand somebody trying to make me look bad especially when what they are saying makes no sense!

Now, if you want to cow down to somebody because they have lots of posts, than thats your right; but I won't! If he wanted to leave an opinion than fine, but instead he just wanted to try and make me look foolish! Thats getting personal. Which brings me to the second thing I hate, " People saying Im the one starting stuff, when it was the other guy that was making personal comments against me!"

Last, this is not a thread about Facts! This is a thread about opinions! What is your deal with facts anyways! This is a thread in which you can make a case for many different points of view. There can be evidence, small facts, and other examples to back up your opinions, but this topic is still based on our opinions in the end. So, I dont understand why you are asking me for facts on a discussion like this!

One last thing, I dont know you, you dont know me. I make no preconcieved judgements on you nor should you make them about me! If you want to be friendly than fine, if not than just leave me alone! Im not out here trying to please everybody and win a popularity contest. Im a very nice guy but Im also very sure of myself and confident in my opinions. At the same time, I can respect yours, but this doesnt mean that I have to agree with them, as long as I dont get personal. I dont ever get personal unless attack first!

Lets just let this die and have a great day!

Koop reply :

Quote

Lets just let this die and have a great day!

Think I'll sing good night Irene at karaoke tonight ;D

Catt reply :

Quote
Continued.......
Last, this is not a thread about Facts! This is a thread about opinions! What is your deal with facts anyways! This is a thread in which you can make a case for many different points of view. There can be evidence, small facts, and other examples to back up your opinions, but this topic is still based on our opinions in the end. So, I dont understand why you are asking me for facts on a discussion like this!

Sort of like your thread on "TX Tourney Trails Need Change or posts of the effects of fishing spawning bass.

SkeetyCCTX reply :

Quote

Quote
Continued.......
Last, this is not a thread about Facts! This is a thread about opinions! What is your deal with facts anyways! This is a thread in which you can make a case for many different points of view. There can be evidence, small facts, and other examples to back up your opinions, but this topic is still based on our opinions in the end. So, I dont understand why you are asking me for facts on a discussion like this!

Sort of like your thread on "TX Tourney Trails Need Change or posts of the effects of fishing spawning bass.

Dude, get a life and quit trying to start problems. No body cares. Either say something productive or move on cause I have way too much going on to verbally sparr with you over none-sense!

All of those post where created for people to give their "opinions" if you want to read facts than grab an encyclopedia! When it comes to all of those topics, points of view will also be heavily seeded in opinion because factual evidence is irrelivant, shady, or differs from study to study! After all, I cant pick up the phone and call mr. bass after a tourny to see how he feels(LOL)! So, you got my opinion. I never stated that it was fact, nor did I try and act like it was. I just gave my opinion and clearly stated it was just based on my own judgment and vast experience in the TX outdoors!

Your too funny, how do you demand facts from someone that is just giving an opinion on issues that are not black and white, especially when the person stating their opinion does not care to prove anything to you. Im just throwing an educated opinion out there for you to think about, I dont care if you accept it, hate it, or love it! Take it for what its worth and move on man! Go fishing or something!

smashingsmallies reply :

Hey guys, thanks to all who took the time to answer my question. Common sense in life is a quality to live by and I just hope those in the "decision making" role of fishing tournaments like the Bassmasters uses a little common sense when dealing with this issue.

I've read all the posts and I think I got what I was looking for and I believe it's time for me to move on to other subjects. Gentlemen, with all due respect to all as human beings, THIS IS SOUNDING LIKE A SOAP OPERA and that ain't my cup of tea. Fish on. John.

SkeetyCCTX reply :

Quote
Hey guys, thanks to all who took the time to answer my question. Common sense in life is a quality to live by and I just hope those in the "decision making" role of fishing tournaments like the Bassmasters uses a little common sense when dealing with this issue.
I've read all the posts and I think I got what I was looking for and I believe it's time for me to move on to other subjects. Gentlemen, with all due respect to all as human beings, THIS IS SOUNDING LIKE A SOAP OPERA and that ain't my cup of tea. Fish on. John.

Im cool with that! This is this dudes thread so lets let him end it!

Matt Fly reply :

SKEETY, some how we got wires crossed.

I'm sorry to you and to the mods. I'll be on my best behavior while the mods away.

Hookem

Catt reply :

Out of respect for smashingsmallies C'est Fini

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