Opinions of the new BASS Open's format 2024
1simplemann reply :
Have you guys seen the new Open's format? Instead of 3 Open"s per division.(North,south,and central) BTW Where's the West division?, there will be a Central and Eastern division w/ 4 Open's per division and a championship of the 2 divisions. Sounds great. Not! Most of the Opens are in the southern half of each division. 1 Open out of 8 in the North and once again 0 events in the West. If any of you guys want a shot at the Classic, You'd better have deep pockets and a lot of time on your hands regardless of where you live. If you live out West, you'd better buy Lucas Oil grease by case because your gonna need it for all the miles they expect you to put on your trailer. LOL Seriously though, when is BASS is gonna wake up and make these things feasible to fish for everybody in the country and not just the Southeast? Aren't the Open's supposed to be about angling ability and not financial/time commitment ability?
Oregon Native reply :
They never have been to partial to "Out West". I fished BASS many years ago when they were out west but didn't really care for the pro on pro formula. Guess their reasoning was not much participation or whatever...."it's there show"
RichF reply :
It's a step on the "right" direction for BASS but a wrong one for the majority of amateur anglers. The only thing this new format does is provide more of an advantage to established touring pros looking for an extra chance at the Classic or re-qualification into the Elites. I think it's safe to say that BASS makes the majority of their money from the Elites so it only makes sense for them to do all they can to keep those guys around. They're a sure thing when it comes to ponying up the cash for entry fees.
I get that it's a business but BASS needs to wake up. What are they gonna do when their poster boys all retire? Sure there are a few good young guns mixed in, but the mainstays are all in the same year class or older. I can't imagine the pool of incredibly wealthy but also extremely talented bass anglers is very deep. The future looks bleak to me if BASS keeps up with their current business plan.
12poundbass reply :
On 9/25/2017 at 10:25 PM, RichF said:It's a step on the "right" direction for BASS but a wrong one for the majority of amateur anglers. The only thing this new format does is provide more of an advantage to established touring pros looking for an extra chance at the Classic or re-qualification into the Elites. I think it's safe to say that BASS makes the majority of their money from the Elites so it only makes sense for them to do all they can to keep those guys around. They're a sure thing when it comes to ponying up the cash for entry fees.
I get that it's a business but BASS needs to wake up. What are they gonna do when their poster boys all retire? Sure there are a few good young guns mixed in, but the mainstays are all in the same year class or older. I can't imagine the pool of incredibly wealthy but also extremely talented bass anglers is very deep. The future looks bleak to me if BASS keeps up with their current business plan.
Their "poster boys" don't need the opens to requalify for the Elites the majority don't anyways. I'm not a business man by any means so I could very well be off in left field here, but I'm guessing an overwhelming majority of the open anglers are looking to make it to the Elites so I don't really understand where you're coming from when you say the "future looks bleak for BASS".
Somebody brought up having to be a millionaire or extremely wealthy to fish the Elites a few months back on Bassmaster and it was either Jordan or Matt Lee quickly responded and said neither were wealthy. He went on to say that their dad was a Veterinarian but hasn't footed the bill for their career choice. Brandon Palaniuk just won AOY, while speaking right after winning AOY, if I remember correctly he said he sold his boat he won at the Federation championship to foot the bill for his first year on the Elites. Gerald Swindle last years AOY did construction, hardly wealthy.
There are some great examples that totally put the misconception that you have to be wealthy to fish the Elites to bed. It would help. But these three examples (and there's way more) show that if you put in the long days, hard work, skill, and a little luck anyone can do it. There's no denying that most who try fall short and end up broke, which is where being wealthy would help, but your bank account isn't going to buy your way in or keep you in, because there are hundreds of anglers across the country waiting for you to slip up and have their shot.
Megastink reply :
It's always been my dream to qualify for the Elites. Still is. But after this rule change, I realize it won't happen through the opens, at least for me.
My new plan: begin a path to qualify for the FLW Tour. If I'm successful, it's much more affordable and the season is shorter. I'm a working man, and the tour is the "Working Mans' Tour".
RichF reply :
On 9/26/2017 at 12:36 AM, 12poundbass said:Their "poster boys" don't need the opens to requalify for the Elites the majority don't anyways. I'm not a business man by any means so I could very well be off in left field here, but I'm guessing an overwhelming majority of the open anglers are looking to make it to the Elites so I don't really understand where you're coming from when you say the "future looks bleak for BASS".
Somebody brought up having to be a millionaire or extremely wealthy to fish the Elites a few months back on Bassmaster and it was either Jordan or Matt Lee quickly responded and said neither were wealthy. He went on to say that their dad was a Veterinarian but hasn't footed the bill for their career choice. Brandon Palaniuk just won AOY, while speaking right after winning AOY, if I remember correctly he said he sold his boat he won at the Federation championship to foot the bill for his first year on the Elites. Gerald Swindle last years AOY did construction, hardly wealthy.
There are some great examples that totally put the misconception that you have to be wealthy to fish the Elites to bed. It would help. But these three examples (and there's way more) show that if you put in the long days, hard work, skill, and a little luck anyone can do it. There's no denying that most who try fall short and end up broke, which is where being wealthy would help, but your bank account isn't going to buy your way in or keep you in, because there are hundreds of anglers across the country waiting for you to slip up and have their shot.
You're right that the mainstays will likely not have to re-qualify because they consistently perform well enough to stay put. Obviously, many anglers competing in the Opens are looking for a chance to make the Elites, so sure, there will be fresh recruits. I say it looks bleak because it appears (to me anyway) that BASS puts nearly all of its effort, attention, backing, whatever, etc. into a handful of anglers that won't be in the sport forever. Not only will they not be around forever, they will all likely be leaving at or around the same time.
Of course not all Elite anglers are wealthy. I know many come from humble beginnings and have worked extremely hard to get where they're at. It's incredibly respectable (Steve Kennedy comes to mind). However, I'm not sure if you can compare the Swindle/VanDam/Reese/Iaconelli era to today's, from a cost/difficulty perspective. I think it's perfectly reasonable to say participating, qualifying, and just affording to play the game was quite a bit more manageable back then. Boats didn't cost 80K, trucks, weren't 40K, and fuel was much cheaper. I'm not saying it was easy, just that it was likely much easier than today. So yes, your examples of the Lee bros and Palaniuk do indeed show that you don't "have" to be wealthy to make it, but this new Opens format will make it much more of a necessity. Here's why I think that...
It was already incredibly difficult to compete in them when you factored in the cost and the time off necessary to complete a circuit, but it was manageable, provided you had a decent job that gave you three weeks vacation (which I'd say is pretty standard). I don't know of many "regular" jobs that are going to give you the now five weeks of vacation time necessary to complete a circuit. That will eliminate a lot of folks from participation even if they have the cash to buy in. Let's say you can muster up the vacation time. Only having two divisions will not only require another $1500 entry fee, it will also increase travel costs, drastically in my estimation (Champlain to Okeechobee for example), which again will likely deter potential participants.
I just don't see the pool of potential anglers waiting to "slip in" growing with this new format. Just look at prior Opens rosters. Year after year, they're mostly filled with Elite pros, FLW tour pros, and a handful of repeat amateurs (many of whom, I'm guessing, have deep pockets). And it's not like the fields are always full. I certainly don't think the future of competitive bass fishing is bleak but I definitely don't think these new changes will help grow higher level event participation within the BASS organization.
On 9/26/2017 at 4:04 AM, Megastink said:It's always been my dream to qualify for the Elites. Still is. But after this rule change, I realize it won't happen through the opens, at least for me.
My new plan: begin a path to qualify for the FLW Tour. If I'm successful, it's much more affordable and the season is shorter. I'm a working man, and the tour is the "Working Mans' Tour".
I was likely going to fish at least one Open next year for the first time on the "Pro" side. Definitely not happening now. I'm guessing FLW is going to see a drastic influx in participation next year. You better sign up EARLY!!
Good Luck!
12poundbass reply :
On 9/26/2017 at 4:17 AM, RichF said:You're right that the mainstays will likely not have to re-qualify because they consistently perform well enough to stay put. Obviously, many anglers competing in the Opens are looking for a chance to make the Elites, so sure, there will be fresh recruits. I say it looks bleak because it appears (to me anyway) that BASS puts nearly all of its effort, attention, backing, whatever, etc. into a handful of anglers that won't be in the sport forever. Not only will they not be around forever, they will all likely be leaving at or around the same time.
Of course not all Elite anglers are wealthy. I know many come from humble beginnings and have worked extremely hard to get where they're at. It's incredibly respectable (Steve Kennedy comes to mind). However, I'm not sure if you can compare the Swindle/VanDam/Reese/Iaconelli era to today's, from a cost/difficulty perspective. I think it's perfectly reasonable to say participating, qualifying, and just affording to play the game was quite a bit more manageable back then. Boats didn't cost 80K, trucks, weren't 40K, and fuel was much cheaper. I'm not saying it was easy, just that it was likely much easier than today. So yes, your examples of the Lee bros and Palaniuk do indeed show that you don't "have" to be wealthy to make it, but this new Opens format will make it much more of a necessity. Here's why I think that...
It was already incredibly difficult to compete in them when you factored in the cost and the time off necessary to complete a circuit, but it was manageable, provided you had a decent job that gave you three weeks vacation (which I'd say is pretty standard). I don't know of many "regular" jobs that are going to give you the now five weeks of vacation time necessary to complete a circuit. That will eliminate a lot of folks from participation even if they have the cash to buy in. Let's say you can muster up the vacation time. Only having two divisions will not only require another $1500 entry fee, it will also increase travel costs, drastically in my estimation (Champlain to Okeechobee for example), which again will likely deter potential participants.
I just don't see the pool of potential anglers waiting to "slip in" growing with this new format. Just look at prior Opens rosters. Year after year, they're mostly filled with Elite pros, FLW tour pros, and a handful of repeat amateurs (many of whom, I'm guessing, have deep pockets). And it's not like the fields are always full. I certainly don't think the future of competitive bass fishing is bleak but I definitely don't think these new changes will help grow higher level event participation within the BASS organization.
I was likely going to fish at least one Open next year for the first time on the "Pro" side. Definitely not happening now. I'm guessing FLW is going to see a drastic influx in participation next year. You better sign up EARLY!!
Good Luck!
I agree with you it's getting more difficult but it can be done. And maybe the FLW route is a better way to go to start out (I don't know I don't follow the FLW closely). College bass fishing is exploding and BASS played a big role in that. Only time will tell.
BassNJake reply :
I'm sure I'm in the minority but I think that it is great.
It is another move towards making the Elite series the very best of Professional fishing.
This prevents some local who is on the right bite at the right time to win and you're in.
This prevents a touring pro from fishing his home lake and getting a berth into the classic.
This will mean to qualify for the Elite series you will need to be consistent over 5 events not just 3.
This new format eliminates those who are not financially able to fish the Elite series.
This will eliminate the guys that qualify and then drop out after a couple events because they dont have the sponsors.
If you are serious about making it to the Elite series you better have the financial backing to do so.
It's 40 grand in entrance fees + hotels/camping for a week + gas for 3 days of practice and at least 2 days of fishing + food and that does not account for the travel it took to get to the event.
If you make a check that barely covered your expenses for that week.
There is a reason that there are all these guys trying to jump ship from FLW to BASS.
It's sponsorship dollars.
The same sponsor will pay more for an Elite angler than they will for an FLW angler.
I think it was Brent Ehrler that said something about it when he was making the switch and he's someone that won over 2 million fishing FLW.
An FLW win = $125,000 for an entry fee of $4500
A BASS win = $100,000 for an entry fee of $5000
Both a Classic win or a Forrest Wood Cup win = $300,000
So it costs less and you can win more money but every year several FLW pros make the switch.
Anybody can fish FLW, you pay, you play.(there are some that get priority but not enough to fill all 150 spots)
You have to qualify to make the elites and you have to finish well enough throughout your first 2 years to stay qualified. Otherwise, you have to go back to the opens to qualify.
I think in the last 10 years there has been a clear separation between the #1 tour and the #2 tour.
With the new rules for the Opens, I think it makes the divide even greater.
To qualify for the Elites you will need to be consistent over 5 events at different lakes using different techniques.
I do believe there are some excellent fisherman in FLW, however they are BIG fish in a small pond.
John Cox has qualified for the Classic and for the Elite series and here is what he said...
Cox hasn’t written off fishing the Elite Series should he qualify for it. It will come down to which schedule is more favorable to him.
“I like fishing new places, but I do much better on lakes that I’ve been to several times,” Cox said. “It’s almost like having a home field advantage.”
Thats a big fish in a small pond answer if you ask me.
BassNJake reply :
I also want to add I think there should be a Western Open division.
However, I have read that when there was stuff out west the support was minimal.
Supply and demand comes into play and then figure that against the cost benefit ratio and BASS has decided not to invest into that market when it comes to tournaments.
WRB reply :
On 9/27/2017 at 4:13 AM, BassNJake said:I also want to add I think there should be a Western Open division.
However, I have read that when there was stuff out west the support was minimal.
Supply and demand comes into play and then figure that against the cost benefit ratio and BASS has decided not to invest into that market when it comes to tournaments.
B.A.S.S. Hasn't been supported by local communities, poor turn outs for the events, good angler participation with excellent fishing at the Columbia River, Lake Shasta, Califorina Delta and Clear Lake. There are Western Bass Opens, just not sponsored or sanctioned by B.A.S.S. although several Elites fish them. US Open at lake Mead is Oct 16-18 2017, for example.
Tom
12poundbass reply :
On 9/27/2017 at 8:01 AM, WRB said:B.A.S.S. Hasn't been supported by local communities, poor turn outs for the events, good angler participation with excellent fishing at the Columbia River, Lake Shasta, Califorina Delta and Clear Lake. There are Western Bass Opens, just not sponsored or sanctioned by B.A.S.S. although several Elites fish them. US Open at lake Mead is Oct 16-18 2017, for example.
Tom
What do you think is the reason for the lack of support and turnout? I still scratch my head when I hear you and others say it isn't supported out west. Is it anglers as well or mainly communities and spectators?
On 9/27/2017 at 8:01 AM, WRB said:B.A.S.S. Hasn't been supported by local communities, poor turn outs for the events, good angler participation with excellent fishing at the Columbia River, Lake Shasta, Califorina Delta and Clear Lake. There are Western Bass Opens, just not sponsored or sanctioned by B.A.S.S. although several Elites fish them. US Open at lake Mead is Oct 16-18 2017, for example.
Tom
What do you think is the reason for the lack of support and turnout? I still scratch my head when I hear you and others say it isn't supported out west. Is it anglers as well or mainly communities and spectators?
WRB reply :
Bass anglers support the events, no problem getting 300 boat entries, big problem getting spectator partipation at any bass fishing contest out west, the public isn't interested in fishing.
Tom
1simplemann reply :
Rich F, You right on target. Before, A guy had to have decent job, 3 weeks vacation and a dream. Now he needs truthfully, a great job o, 5 weeks vacation (which is rare) and a dream. And also some angling ability in both cases. Also before IMHO, a guy had to live geographically near the Opens to be competitive. Now, a SE or midwest angler has the advantage. It's possible a Northern angler can be competitive but he is at a financial disadvantage when trying to reach the Big O in FL. Also a Western angler doesn't stand a chance. It would take him days to get to ANY of the scheduled events. Why BASS doesn't have a Western division is beyond me. It's simple. Divide the country in 4 or 5 sections and have a championship if you want . maybe add a few Classic for the additional Opens. I don't this format will last long. Also why do Elites get to fish the Opens anyway? I view the Opens as the Minor leagues and the Elites as the Majors. Open guys can't just jump in elite's They have to earn their way in. Elite's shouldn't be able to jump down a level just so they can have a shot at the Classic because they didn't qualify.
Swbass15 reply :
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't there away to qualify for the elites through the nation? Similar to the flw living the dream package? I have always wanted to fish the opens don't know if I will or not. Yes the new format makes it tough but you have to be committed if you want a shot at the big leagues. I disagree with the idea that elites can't fish the opens, it's an open just that open to any one. It's another chance for those guys to make a payday. Just my 2 cents
RichF reply :
@BassNJake,
I don't think the new format is a step in the right direction at making the Elites the "very best in bass fishing." To me, it appears as though you're saying, as a prerequisite to becoming one of the best of the best, you need to be "financially able." That's just absurd. There are plenty of "financially able" anglers that regularly compete in the Opens, who are just not that good. Nowhere near Elite level. I've fished with several. But, they will have an exponentially better chance at making the Elites simply because they can afford to play the game over and over each year versus the much better, but less "financially able" angler that saves every penny and vacation day for one shot (one season) at his/her dream. How does this promote the very best of the best? You eliminate hundreds, if not thousands, of anglers fully capable of competing among the "Elites" simply because they can't afford to even try.
I totally get wanting to try and get rid of the local advantage/Classic berth dynamic. Here's the thing, it was addressed by making the Classic berth available to winners ONLY if they fished all events in a circuit. Was it perfect? Well, no. But you're never going to get rid of the "local advantage." I will certainly admit that the new format will be better at preventing this but there's still a problem...touring pros. They make up a decent portion of Opens anglers and will always have the advantage just about anywhere they go (not necessarily based on talent). The Opens are held on basically the same waters every year. On top of that, the FLW tour and Elite tour schedule many of those same bodies of water every year as well. Those touring guys will have far more of an advantage over their non-touring competitors simply because they fish those place far more often.
You're are 100% correct about needing the financial backing if you choose to fish the Elites should you qualify. I think we can agree that sponsorship dollars are crucial to anglers that aren't independently wealthy. The problem for me is..how does an angler get the sponsorships that will help them thru the Elite schedule? I would say you'd have to fish several high level tournaments and do well to get noticed. That platform is the Opens. With the new format, it's nearly impossible for anglers that are less financially able to compete regularly and gain the exposure needed to draw in potential sponsors. You're just not going to get lucrative deals by fishing anything beneath this level. So again, we're back to all the anglers that may not be that great but have the cash to play.
Just to be clear, I'm not saying it's 100% impossible for an average joe (who happens to be an incredible angler), with a modest income, to make and live out a dream in the Elites. It can certainly happen, if the stars align. I just think it's important to point out that competitive bass fishing has become less about the "best of the best" and more about "the best with the most money." There's a big difference there. There's no arguing that BASS wants to make this a mainstream sport. I'm just not so sure that can happen when you eliminate your potential stars before they even get a chance to shine.
@1simplemann
"Also why do Elites get to fish the Opens anyway? I view the Opens as the Minor leagues and the Elites as the Majors. Open guys can't just jump in elite's They have to earn their way in. Elite's shouldn't be able to jump down a level just so they can have a shot at the Classic because they didn't qualify."
I think this is spot on. BASS wants to be a mainstream sport, but what other mainstream sport allows their pros to drop a level to compete against amateurs?
BassNJake reply :
On 9/27/2017 at 10:35 AM, 1simplemann said:Also why do Elites get to fish the Opens anyway? I view the Opens as the Minor leagues and the Elites as the Majors. Open guys can't just jump in elite's They have to earn their way in. Elite's shouldn't be able to jump down a level just so they can have a shot at the Classic because they didn't qualify.
It is an open event, anyone can fish.
This is a way to qualify for the Elite Series as well.
If you have 2 sub par years fishing the Elite Series you lose your spot and have to re-qualify through the opens or BASS Nation.
I think it was Chad Pipkins(definitely could be mistaken) qualified through the opens the same year he would have been replaced on the tour. So he did not have to spend a year out of the Elite Series before re-qualifying.
12poundbass reply :
On 9/27/2017 at 10:33 PM, BassNJake said:It is an open event, anyone can fish.
This is a way to qualify for the Elite Series as well.
If you have 2 sub par years fishing the Elite Series you lose your spot and have to re-qualify through the opens or BASS Nation.
I think it was Chad Pipkins(definitely could be mistaken) qualified through the opens the same year he would have been replaced on the tour. So he did not have to spend a year out of the Elite Series before re-qualifying.
It was Chad Pipkins last year who did this.
On 9/27/2017 at 10:23 PM, RichF said:think this is spot on. BASS wants to be a mainstream sport, but what other mainstream sport allows their pros to drop a level to compete against amateurs?
Golf does this with the U.S. Open. That's why they're called Opens. They're open to anybody. You have to qualify and it's extremely tough considering you're up against pros but it can be done.
BassNJake reply :
On 9/27/2017 at 10:23 PM, RichF said:@BassNJake,
I don't think the new format is a step in the right direction at making the Elites the "very best in bass fishing." To me, it appears as though you're saying, as a prerequisite to becoming one of the best of the best, you need to be "financially able." That's just absurd. There are plenty of "financially able" anglers that regularly compete in the Opens, who are just not that good. Nowhere near Elite level. I've fished with several. But, they will have an exponentially better chance at making the Elites simply because they can afford to play the game over and over each year versus the much better, but less "financially able" angler that saves every penny and vacation day for one shot (one season) at his/her dream. How does this promote the very best of the best? You eliminate hundreds, if not thousands, of anglers fully capable of competing among the "Elites" simply because they can't afford to even try.
Just want to make it clear, I am just giving my opinion.
Below I use you and your but I mean anyone that fishes the opens not you specifically.
I have always seen tournament bass fishing as 2 fold; having the skills and having the money.
One of the best fisherman I ever met fished out of a john boat, had 2 rods and a handful of lures.
Could he have competed against even the best local guys? I know he could have, he could catch a bass in a mud puddle.
However, we'll never know because he couldn't afford to fish in tournaments.
What I am saying is that winning an open doesn't dump enough sponsors in your lap to fish the Elite Series the next year.
Using your example of the person saving every penny and uses all their vacation time just to fish the opens.
What are they going to do next year, if they qualify?
Quit their jobs all of a sudden because of the financial windfall that comes with qualifying for the Elite Series?
If your are fishing the opens to make the Elite Series you better have sponsors already in place and then pick up more when you qualify.
Randall Tharp turned down 3 invitations to the Elite series because he was not financially able to afford it.
He had some sort of team sponsorship with FLW that allowed him to fish that trail.
Once he made a name for himself, he was encouraged to fish the elite Series by his sponsors.
https://www.bassmaster.com/blog/third-times-charm
If your fishing the opens to make the Classic who are you going to fish against when you get there?
The same pros that you are complaining about fishing the opens.
If you cant hang with a bunch of "financially able" anglers and a dozen or so pros, how are you going to hang in the biggest event in bass fishing?
Which pros do you want to eliminate from fishing the opens just the BASS guys or should the FLW guys be excluded as well? What about guys that fish Costa and BFL or BASS Nation?
BASS used to have a lot more guys that always donated and never really competed.
Now they have to stay qualified or re-qualify and that makes the tour more competitive top to bottom.
Not allowing the win and your in makes the classic more competitive because of the variety of lakes you have to fish to qualify for it.
RichF reply :
On 9/28/2017 at 12:29 AM, BassNJake said:What I am saying is that winning an open doesn't dump enough sponsors in your lap to fish the Elite Series the next year.
I never said winning an Open will dump enough sponsors into an angler's lap. I specifically said that an angler would need to fish several and consistently do well to attract sponsors. The new Opens format will drastically hinder this for non-wealthy/non-established (more or less touring pros) anglers. Yes, I've heard the argument of "how will a qualifying angler hope to fish in the Elites if they've barely met the financial and time commitment of the Opens?" The fact is, some anglers would sacrifice it all if given that chance (Jamie Hartman comes to mind). But that's beside the point anyway. This is my problem..."What are they going to do next year, if they qualify? Quit their jobs all of a sudden because of the financial windfall that comes with qualifying for the Elite Series?" This is the problem with the sport. If you qualify for the Elites, I'd say you're probably a pretty d**n good angler, agreed? When the financial burden is so extreme, that most of these great anglers simply can't even take that opportunity...well that's a problem with the sport (in it's current form). I reiterate...how can one say that this new Opens format is a move toward making the Elites the best in bass fishing if the majority of potential "bests" never get a shot, strictly because of financial reasons?
I'm not sure I see the Randall Tharp example as relevant within the context of this debate. He had a good sponsorship deal with the FLW that allowed him to gain exposure to other sponsors who finally provided him with the financial backing to accept the Elite series invitation. If anything, this is a huge aspect of my point. He had the right platform in the FLW to give him the necessary exposure to sponsors who ultimately provided him the financial backing to pursue the Elites. But in order for the average angler (to be clear, I'm using "average" to describe a very good angler that's not wealthy) to do that, he/she would need a platform that's at least somewhat reachable. The Opens, in their new form, are no longer that. I suppose then, the answer to this would be, fish the Costas/FLW.
Personally, I see fishing the Opens just for a Classic berth and fishing for an Elite invite as two separate animals. I'm not even totally sure I'm on board with Classic berths being given out in the Opens (maybe for top anglers in points but certainly not for a win). I'm in total agreement that eliminating the "win and in" will make the Classic more competitive. I'm viewing this through the perspective of mainstream sports (which is what BASS is aiming for their organization to become). A triple-A division should be the platform aspiring amateurs use to try and qualify for the big leagues, not for an arguably easier chance at a Classic berth for a seasoned Pro. Think about this...Iaconelli and Ish didn't make the Classic this year. That means they didn't perform all that well in the big leagues. Why should they be allowed to drop down to a lesser league in order to try and re-qualify? Sure you can argue that "just because they're Elite pros doesn't necessarily mean they'll win an Open" and "if you can't hang with a couple pros, how are you going to compete against them in the Classic?" Is there some truth in those arguments? Sure. But just take a look at the Opens stats. At least half of the top 12 at nearly every event is either an Elite or FLW pro. There's a reason for that, and only half is that they are "better" than everyone else. They tour for a living and fish these bodies of water EVERY year! That's almost like having homefield advantage on every lake you fish.
Look, if BASS wants to bring bass angling into the world of mainstream sports, they have some major work to do, IMO. If they wanna continue to run an elite club for a select few, that's completely fine too, just quit claiming to wanna make it a mainstream sport. I'll just have to wait and show my prowess after I win the Powerball
1simplemann reply :
Jake, you make some valid points. FLW pro's do fish the Opens and how can you restrict BASS pros but not the others? I'm not sure what the answer is. I do understand the concept that an Open is an Open and should be open to everybody. Maybe if a Classic berth wasn't on the line? As I'm typing this an idea came to mind. A pro division and an amateur division? Just throwing that out there. In my mind I still view the that Opens are for the guys trying to make to the next level. Triple A Minor leagues was a good analogy. Some Major league'rs do get sent down so AAA have to deal with it. So you are right that if a you can't handle a few Pro's at an Open then how do you expect to handle a full roster of them. I guess what bother's me about it that some of these guys voluntarily step down looking for that easy payday and/or that Classic berth. The guys that have to re-qualify don't bother me so much because they wouldn't be there if they didn't have to. the FLW guy's dont bother me so much either they are trying to find out if they are "Elite Material" or not. To me though, the bigger issue is the new format. I don't desire to fish the Elites so I'm not trying to qualify. However, I do have that dream to someday fish the Classic. Notice I said fish it, not win it. 3 weeks vacation, some $$, some angling ability, a few great days on the water and it's a possible dream. I bet there are thousands out there just like me. My dream just got a LOT harder. Most likely it's out of my reach now because not only is a huge $$ commitment, but it's also a huge time commitment away from my family. I can't justify either to my family. The Opens are supposed to be a test of Angling Ability and nothing else. Now it's about financial ability, availability, and then angling ability. If a guy doesn't have all 3 then he shouldn't ever bother to apply. Also why is BASS is crying about turnout in the West, when anglers pay the fee's! the events are free to the public but the roster's are full. Are they losing money when they come West? Lot's of prime fisheries out here. A local guy here just caught 29lb in one day. smallmouth! 52lb for 2 days. If that's not world class, then I don't know what is. And that's in my home state. The Columbia River is Outstanding, Idaho has some lakes that are awesome at times. California has some amazing fisheries. All of these fisheries and several that I haven't mentioned could easily sustain a BASS Open. Why make guys travel half way across the country to fish an Open when there are plenty of excellent fisheries here in the West. Look at all the Pro's that have to move East just so they can compete. If they don't, they will get left behind. I'm done for the night. I'll check in tomorrow
OCdockskipper reply :
A couple of my thoughts/opinions on the above posts:
- I would argue that the Elite series has a healthy future. Of the top 15 in the AOY this year, you had three anglers in their 20's (Wheeler, Lee & Connell), four anglers in their 30's (Palanuik, Ashley, Defoe & Feider), seven anglers in their 40's (Christie, Evers, Hackney, Combs, Ehler, Hartman & Swindle) and one at 50 (KVD). I recall Hackney saying bass anglers prime is 35 to 45, so you only have 3 anglers past that prime, 5 in the middle and 7 still entering it. Between the Opens, the College circuit and the nation system, they have a good feeder system to keep new & younger talent flowing in.
- I have heard the argument against Elite anglers fishing Opens and I find it to be sour grapes. In baseball, bowling & poker (to name a few off the top of my head), the top professionals will compete in the leagues or divisions that feed the major league level. To try to limit the field by excluding top talent is a weak way to compete.
- While I can't speak for the entire West, I can give some insight as to the lack of B.A.S.S. influence in Southern California. Despite a population of over 23 million people, there is exactly one (1) Bass Pro Shop to cover the area from L.A. to the Mexican border. You can bet Johnny Morris has crunched the numbers and figured out that despite the huge numbers of people, serious interest in the outdoors just does not exist in this area. To further grind that down, a majority of folks who are interested in the outdoors here either fish the ocean for tuna or other species or the mountain lakes & streams for stocked trout. Having fished for largemouth for over 40 years here, I find that difficult to believe, but it is the reality - there just aren't that many bass fishermen here & it is not even a blip on our cultures radar. Brent Ehler led this years Classic for the first two days and there wasn't even a mention anywhere in his hometown paper (The Orange County Register). I live in a neighborhood that has over 250 homes, all lakefront, and not a single person owns a bass boat (myself included). I'd bet you couldn't go down a street in most southern parts of the country and not find at least 1 bass boat for every 10 houses. Bass fishing is part of the culture in the south, hence it draws the biggest crowds despite having smaller population numbers.
RichF reply :
In baseball, you get sent down to the minors because you're not performing at the top level (or you're rehabing an injury). That's not the same thing as Ott Defoe signing up for his home lake Open and crushing everyone with his special boat. He was already qualified for the Classic and certainly didn't have to re-qualify for the Elites.
That being said, I don't even think the pros dropping down to fish the Opens bothers me all that much. It's the new format and cost of the circuit I really dislike. Personally, I would prefer to fish against those guys. I just don't think you can make an argument about top level talent competing when so few anglers that actually have massive talent will ever get a chance to show it, simply because of cost limitations. It's just frustrating to hear: "the best in the world" and "top level talent" when that's simply not 100% accurate. If people just labeled it what it really is, I wouldn't be so salty about it.
12poundbass reply :
On 9/28/2017 at 1:50 PM, OCdockskipper said:A couple of my thoughts/opinions on the above posts:
- I would argue that the Elite series has a healthy future. Of the top 15 in the AOY this year, you had three anglers in their 20's (Wheeler, Lee & Connell), four anglers in their 30's (Palanuik, Ashley, Defoe & Feider), seven anglers in their 40's (Christie, Evers, Hackney, Combs, Ehler, Hartman & Swindle) and one at 50 (KVD). I recall Hackney saying bass anglers prime is 35 to 45, so you only have 3 anglers past that prime, 5 in the middle and 7 still entering it. Between the Opens, the College circuit and the nation system, they have a good feeder system to keep new & younger talent flowing in.
- I have heard the argument against Elite anglers fishing Opens and I find it to be sour grapes. In baseball, bowling & poker (to name a few off the top of my head), the top professionals will compete in the leagues or divisions that feed the major league level. To try to limit the field by excluding top talent is a weak way to compete.
- While I can't speak for the entire West, I can give some insight as to the lack of B.A.S.S. influence in Southern California. Despite a population of over 23 million people, there is exactly one (1) Bass Pro Shop to cover the area from L.A. to the Mexican border. You can bet Johnny Morris has crunched the numbers and figured out that despite the huge numbers of people, serious interest in the outdoors just does not exist in this area. To further grind that down, a majority of folks who are interested in the outdoors here either fish the ocean for tuna or other species or the mountain lakes & streams for stocked trout. Having fished for largemouth for over 40 years here, I find that difficult to believe, but it is the reality - there just aren't that many bass fishermen here & it is not even a blip on our cultures radar. Brent Ehler led this years Classic for the first two days and there wasn't even a mention anywhere in his hometown paper (The Orange County Register). I live in a neighborhood that has over 250 homes, all lakefront, and not a single person owns a bass boat (myself included). I'd bet you couldn't go down a street in most southern parts of the country and not find at least 1 bass boat for every 10 houses. Bass fishing is part of the culture in the south, hence it draws the biggest crowds despite having smaller population numbers.
I think another reason there isn't a western swing is sponsorship. If the crowd isn't there no big company is going to pony up money to sponsor an event if there's only a slim chance at exposure and return.
What in the heck do people in California do in their free time? Look at the top 25 bass caught 3,4, maybe 5 bass on their aren't from California (I haven't looked in forever)! You guys have awesome largemouth and spotted bass fishing and only a handful are taking advantage of it. It's good for you guys who do fish, but sad for the state as a whole.
Here in Michigan 5-6lb LMB are pretty big and something you'll only come across once a year maybe? Smallmouth are a different story, we've all seen the blimps A-Jay is pulling out of Lake Menderchuck on a weekly basis. You drive down my road alone, 1 mile all but 2 houses have a boat. It's Michigan and you're literally no more than 5 miles from a lake and at any spot in the state no more than 30 miles from a Great Lake so it's not apples to apples with California. It just boggles my mind bass fishing isn't bigger in California.
IndianaFinesse reply :
On 9/28/2017 at 10:12 PM, 12poundbass said:Smallmouth are a different story, we've all seen the blimps A-Jay is pulling out of Lake Menderchuck on a weekly basis.
Is that the one that's right down the road from lake vanderchuck?
12poundbass reply :
On 9/28/2017 at 10:38 PM, IndianaFinesse said:Is that the one that's right down the road from lake vanderchuck?
Nope. The one down the road from Lake Vanderchuck is Lake MAnderchuck. Menderchuck and MAnderchuck people get confused all the time. It's pretty easy for me to tell them all apart from his videos by looking at the clouds. ?
I gave out too much info. A-Jay is going to kill me!
Logan S reply :
On 9/28/2017 at 12:52 PM, 1simplemann said:The Opens are supposed to be a test of Angling Ability and nothing else.
All tournaments are a test of angling ability...The Opens are supposed to be a qualification route to the Elite Series. The old format was qualifying many anglers who either did not accept the invitation in the first place, or did accept and washed out after the 1st year (or before the end of the 1st year). This was apparently an issue for BASS so they changed the format slightly in hopes of increasing the chances for recruiting more accomplished anglers into the Elites. It makes sense to me and as someone that hopes to fish them in the future I actually like the new format. One thing I hope they do is keep some variety in the schedule...The Opens for the past several years have essentially been on the same locations at the same times.
'Regular' guys hoping to fish the classic still have the Federation route, which IMO has always been the more logical choice since the bulk of the events you fish on that path will be on your local waters. Even Co-anglers have qualified for the Classic from the Federation.
I know I'm in the minority on this - But I don't believe money to be as big of a limiting factor as most others seem to. Does independent wealth make it easier? Of course...But there are plenty of pros on tour that got there from modest beginnings, just look at recent example like Palaniuk or Swindle. If an angler truly has the skill AND desire to make it to the top, they will find a way to make it work. There is no age limit, you can have a 5 or 10 year plan to give you time to save your money. I think the reason so many point to money is the RISK in trying it....It's really not about having the money, it's about the consequences if you bet on yourself and don't make it. A wealthy person could 'afford' to lose it, so it's easier on them. I would bet that for every Elite angler that was independently wealthy before qualifying, you could find an angler from a modest background that make it through hard work and planning - I'd actually argue there are more Elite anglers in the second category than the first.
It seems most people don't like it becasue they can't try to 'jackpot' an Open anymore...Or at least can't do it as easily. I'm pretty sure that was one of the main reasons for the change.
RichF reply :
@Logan S
You make a very valid point concerning the monetary aspect of it. Fishing at that level is a gamble, one that the majority of anglers don't want to take. I'm in that boat . That's why I never took the plunge (still hoping to at some point). I never intended to take away from the hard work many of the established Elites put forth to achieve what they've achieved and I would certainly agree that most weren't handed anything on a silver platter. I hope my posts didn't come off that way to anyone.
I still think there's a better way for BASS to run the Opens but I'm not quite sure what that is. It's incredibly frustrating that something already so difficult to do just became 10x more difficult, but, when it comes down to it, BASS did the right thing, for BASS. They're a business and I totally get that. Hopefully by that time I grow a set and take the leap, BASS will have listened to you and agree to change up the schedule a little bit. haha
WRB reply :
I know a older bass angler that fished local tournaments that inherited several million dollars, his dream was becoming an Elite angler. Sold his home, moved to Texas and started his journey to achieve his dreams and failed after several years of trying, because he wasn't good enough to compete with younger anglers that are good and had the health and stamina to travel and fish multiple day events and that was during the original Open format. Money isn't everything, you need the skills and health to compete at the Elite level.
Tom
BassNJake reply :
@RichF
On 9/27/2017 at 3:56 AM, BassNJake said:I'm sure I'm in the minority but I think that it is great.
It is another move towards making the Elite series the very best of Professional fishing.
My first reply to this topic was about professional fisherman.
On 9/25/2017 at 10:25 PM, RichF said:It's a step on the "right" direction for BASS but a wrong one for the majority of amateur anglers.
You stated this was bad for amateur anglers.
I think we are looking at this from 2 different sides.
I don't think of the opens as the Triple A or minor leagues of BASS.
Bass Nation fills that role.
I view the opens as another opportunity for professionals.
If I fished professionally, I would enter every event I could and I'm sure my sponsors would appreciate/encourage it as well.
If this was a minor league then there would be rules in place so that touring pro's could not fish it.
I'm not sure where the misconception that the opens were a step down or the Triple A of BASS came from.
On 9/28/2017 at 3:33 AM, RichF said:I'm not sure I see the Randall Tharp example as relevant within the context of this debate. He had a good sponsorship deal with the FLW that allowed him to gain exposure to other sponsors who finally provided him with the financial backing to accept the Elite series invitation. If anything, this is a huge aspect of my point. He had the right platform in the FLW to give him the necessary exposure to sponsors who ultimately provided him the financial backing to pursue the Elites. But in order for the average angler (to be clear, I'm using "average" to describe a very good angler that's not wealthy) to do that, he/she would need a platform that's at least somewhat reachable. The Opens, in their new form, are no longer that. I suppose then, the answer to this would be, fish the Costas/FLW.
My point with Randall Tharp is he waited until he had already won over a million dollars fishing FLW before he felt like he had the financial backing to fish the Elite Series. He fished BFL and Costa before fishing FLW and he was tearing it up there too. Out of his 39 top 10 finishes, over 20 of those were at the BFL level and the 6 years prior to him switching to the FLW tour. This is the type of success and commitment it takes to attract the sponsors to fish professionally. FLW didn't give him the platform, he earned it through his success fishing the actual lower levels like BFL and Costa. His continued success led to more sponsors. Guys that have massive talents have many options to grow their fishing game and their marketability.
https://www.flwfishing.com/anglers/randall-tharp-122881
You have also mentioned BASS trying to become a mainstream sport.
I've never heard that and cant see how anyone could compare them at all.
Which mainstream sport requires the participants to pay an entry fee to all the events?
Which mainstream sport has it's biggest event of the year on a 2 week delay before it is on TV?
If bass fishing does become mainstream, I'd hate to see the animal activists and PETA type protests that would be held.
I have enjoyed this discussion/debate, I just think we are looking at it from 2 different perspectives.
RichF reply :
@BassNJake
I agree. This has been a great debate with a lot of really good perspectives. You are definitely correct that we are looking at the Opens from two different viewpoints. I also think we are both backing up our arguments pretty well.
The Elites is the highest level of competitive bass fishing. I don't think there's any argument there. In order to get to that level, you have to qualify thru the Opens (that's the only way). Again, no argument there. The Nation, while it provides an opportunity for a Classic berth, will not get you to the Elites. This is why I see the Opens as the triple-A division not the Nation. I would feel differently if the Elite series worked like the Opens; open to all, just with a higher price tag.
I agree with you about fishing everything I could if I were a Pro (not a pro with a day job, a touring pro). If the rules say it's OK, I'd be in. Sponsors would absolutely encourage participation. Opens are no slouch tournaments and they offer sponsors great exposure.
What I meant with regards to Tharp was that the FLW provided/provides stepping stones (a platform), in terms of tournament circuits with progressively higher competition, that are more easily accessible to more anglers. The Costa Series is the FLW equivalent to the Opens but they are comprised of five divisions with three events in each and a final championship. Smaller geographic regions and fewer events = less travel, less time off, and lower overall cost. Tharp is an incredible angler and great professional and he was able to use the FLW's various circuits to build his brand, win multiple tournaments, and gain financial backing through sponsorship. That's the dream. That's what I don't think the new Opens are going to offer the majority of anglers. When the organization provides more cost effective circuit options, an angler looking to make a career has the ability to compete more often, prove himself/herself with high finishes, and attract potential sponsors.
With regards to BASS wanting to become a mainstream sport, I agree that it's near impossible and you can't compare the two. That idea is there though. That was the vision when the new owners took over seven years ago. I remember reading an article on Bassmaster.com written by one (maybe more) of the owners basically stating they want to get to a point where their major players (the Elites) don't have to pay entry fees. That's why there's been the push for so much live content. They want bass fishing to be a true spectator sport. Bass fishing as a mainstream sport would absolutely be a PR nightmare lol. That's why we're seeing more and more events with the weigh and release format.
Why can't more debates these days be this civil? hahaha
BassNJake reply :
@RichF
Seriously great discussion.
I enjoyed hearing a different opinion than mine, but one I see quite often about the Opens.
I thought that the Bass Nation winner got an invite to both the Classic and the Elite series?
I believe that is how Ike and Brandon P both qualified for BASS but that could have changed as well.
(or I'm mistaken which happens too)
I really like the FLW format as far as the Costa and BFL's go.
I do not like that there are co anglers fishing the FLW tour.
( a couple years ago a Pro's catch was disqualified because the Co Angler put his fish in the pro side livewell)
An amateurs mistake costing the pro.
I think it would be awesome if the Elites didn't have to pay entry fees.
Kevin Short had a good article on bassblaster about entry fee's and payouts.
RichF reply :
I can't find anything about a Nation winners qualifying for Elite Spots on Bassmaster.com. It very well could've been the case when Palaniuk and Ike won.
I agree about co-anglers and the FLW Tour. I could see FLW changing that in the near future.
That article was great. The insider info is always eye opening.
OCdockskipper reply :
On 9/28/2017 at 10:12 PM, 12poundbass said:... Look at the top 25 largest bass caught ...You guys have awesome largemouth and spotted bass fishing and only a handful are taking advantage of it... It just boggles my mind bass fishing isn't bigger in California.
Tom is probably more qualified than I to comment on this, but most California fisheries that produce huge fish are difficult for numbers (The Delta being a notable exception). Yes, you have a chance at catching a 17 lb bass, but you also have a chance of getting skunked multiple times in a row. I would wager that you have a much better chance of catching an 8 to 10 lb bass in Texas or Florida than California. You definitely have a better chance in those states of a day of catching 30 fish with the top 5 topping 25lbs than in California.
The allure of the remote chance to catch a huge bass doesn't attract new anglers as much as the sure bet of catching a bunch of fish. That is why most California anglers target trout, catfish & saltwater species.
Senko lover reply :
I also think it's valuable to include Bassmaster's High School and College programs in this discussion. I think they are fantastic ways to give the kids experience without personally having to sacrifice a financial arm and leg to participate. These programs, imho, are the future of Bassmaster. Just look at Jordan Lee.
I would imagine that Bassmaster is relying on these programs to invest in the sport and raise up future talent and are using the Opens for financial gain. This model leaves out the post-college, weekend anglers who want to try to go professional.
1simplemann reply :
On 9/29/2017 at 3:54 AM, RichF said:@BassNJake
I agree. This has been a great debate with a lot of really good perspectives. You are definitely correct that we are looking at the Opens from two different viewpoints. I also think we are both backing up our arguments pretty well.
The Elites is the highest level of competitive bass fishing. I don't think there's any argument there. In order to get to that level, you have to qualify thru the Opens (that's the only way). Again, no argument there. The Nation, while it provides an opportunity for a Classic berth, will not get you to the Elites. This is why I see the Opens as the triple-A division not the Nation. I would feel differently if the Elite series worked like the Opens; open to all, just with a higher price tag.
I agree with you about fishing everything I could if I were a Pro (not a pro with a day job, a touring pro). If the rules say it's OK, I'd be in. Sponsors would absolutely encourage participation. Opens are no slouch tournaments and they offer sponsors great exposure.
What I meant with regards to Tharp was that the FLW provided/provides stepping stones (a platform), in terms of tournament circuits with progressively higher competition, that are more easily accessible to more anglers. The Costa Series is the FLW equivalent to the Opens but they are comprised of five divisions with three events in each and a final championship. Smaller geographic regions and fewer events = less travel, less time off, and lower overall cost. Tharp is an incredible angler and great professional and he was able to use the FLW's various circuits to build his brand, win multiple tournaments, and gain financial backing through sponsorship. That's the dream. That's what I don't think the new Opens are going to offer the majority of anglers. When the organization provides more cost effective circuit options, an angler looking to make a career has the ability to compete more often, prove himself/herself with high finishes, and attract potential sponsors.
With regards to BASS wanting to become a mainstream sport, I agree that it's near impossible and you can't compare the two. That idea is there though. That was the vision when the new owners took over seven years ago. I remember reading an article on Bassmaster.com written by one (maybe more) of the owners basically stating they want to get to a point where their major players (the Elites) don't have to pay entry fees. That's why there's been the push for so much live content. They want bass fishing to be a true spectator sport. Bass fishing as a mainstream sport would absolutely be a PR nightmare lol. That's why we're seeing more and more events with the weigh and release format.
Why can't more debates these days be this civil? hahaha
I'm not up to date on FLW. You mention the Costa series. and 5 regional divisions. Is there a Western division. If so maybe I should fish that. I've always heard that FLW is more for the working man.
1simplemann reply :
I just looked over on FLW's website and lo and behold there's a Western Costa going on right now at Clear lake. If FLW can do it then why can't BASS?
Logan S reply :
On 10/1/2017 at 12:32 AM, 1simplemann said:I just looked over on FLW's website and lo and behold there's a Western Costa going on right now at Clear lake. If FLW can do it then why can't BASS?
And it only has 100 boats fishing...Compared to 200+ at some other Costa events. We just had a Costa series here on the Potomac that had 160+ at one of the toughest times of the year. The Costa is the only big national trail out there and they still only draw 100 boats for Clear Lake, one of the top fisheries in the nation. A full field for Costa/Opens is usually 150 boats, the Western series never even got within 20 boats of hitting that number in any of the 3 events.
It sucks for guys out west, but the numbers just aren't there. It's unlikely BASS would put an Opens series out there to compete with the Costas for the limited market.
BassNJake reply :
On 9/29/2017 at 6:05 AM, RichF said:I can't find anything about a Nation winners qualifying for Elite Spots on Bassmaster.com. It very well could've been the case when Palaniuk and Ike won.
I agree about co-anglers and the FLW Tour. I could see FLW changing that in the near future.
That article was great. The insider info is always eye opening.
Found this information about the upcoming BASS Nation championship on Lake Hartwell.
The champion will receive a Bassmaster Elite Series berth, paid entry into their division of choice in the Bass Pro Shops Bassmaster Opens, a prize boat to keep, plus a “B.A.S.S. Nation’s Best” prize package, which is a fully rigged tournament-ready boat for one year.
Second- and third-place finishers will earn paid entry into their division of choice in the Bassmaster Opens, and the “B.A.S.S. Nation’s Best” prize package, which is also the use of a fully rigged tournament-ready boat for one year.
RichF reply :
On 10/6/2017 at 9:12 PM, BassNJake said:Found this information about the upcoming BASS Nation championship on Lake Hartwell.
The champion will receive a Bassmaster Elite Series berth, paid entry into their division of choice in the Bass Pro Shops Bassmaster Opens, a prize boat to keep, plus a “B.A.S.S. Nation’s Best” prize package, which is a fully rigged tournament-ready boat for one year.
Second- and third-place finishers will earn paid entry into their division of choice in the Bassmaster Opens, and the “B.A.S.S. Nation’s Best” prize package, which is also the use of a fully rigged tournament-ready boat for one year.
Nice. That's a solid prize pack!
12poundbass reply :
On 10/7/2017 at 2:45 AM, RichF said:Nice. That's a solid prize pack!
There ya go Rich, the heck with the Opens go through the Federation Nation!
RichF reply :
HA! The Fed is way harder lol!
NVD20 reply :
This just my opinion so take it with a grain of salt. Many anglers on the Elites are actually not that well of financially, although the people that do well consistently can pay their way more than new anglers or ones that don't do well often. I do know many Elite anglers and most are very down to earth guys that came up from humble beginnings, but with many colleges and high schools starting to get well-known fishing teams its going to start being alot harder for the average joe to enter the opens and be able to compete against anglers of similar skill.
I fish on the Michigan Collegiate Bass Circuit and many of my competitors and friends fish out of hand me down boats fiberglass boats and most fish out of john boats and other aluminum boats. I, being a college angler in Michigan know many of my competitors now are like many that fish in the opens, but more and more are getting the latest and greatest things being able to outclass many anglers just because they can get to a spot first that they found using their superior fish finders. Although I have no room to talk, I definitely don't have the fastest or biggest boat on our tour, nor do i have the slowest. this year we had four events and one school in our series has fishing as a varsity sport and they get new wrapped ranger boats and trucks, gas, and all of that paid for plus their tuition, so they immediately have an advantage over other teams, but they dont get to keep any of their tournament winnings, it all goes to the school, which isnt much money in my league.
12poundbass reply :
On 10/10/2017 at 6:10 AM, NVD20 said:This just my opinion so take it with a grain of salt. Many anglers on the Elites are actually not that well of financially, although the people that do well consistently can pay their way more than new anglers or ones that don't do well often. I do know many Elite anglers and most are very down to earth guys that came up from humble beginnings, but with many colleges and high schools starting to get well-known fishing teams its going to start being alot harder for the average joe to enter the opens and be able to compete against anglers of similar skill.
I fish on the Michigan Collegiate Bass Circuit and many of my competitors and friends fish out of hand me down boats fiberglass boats and most fish out of john boats and other aluminum boats. I, being a college angler in Michigan know many of my competitors now are like many that fish in the opens, but more and more are getting the latest and greatest things being able to outclass many anglers just because they can get to a spot first that they found using their superior fish finders. Although I have no room to talk, I definitely don't have the fastest or biggest boat on our tour, nor do i have the slowest. this year we had four events and one school in our series has fishing as a varsity sport and they get new wrapped ranger boats and trucks, gas, and all of that paid for plus their tuition, so they immediately have an advantage over other teams, but they dont get to keep any of their tournament winnings, it all goes to the school, which isnt much money in my league.
Welcome to Bassresource from central Michigan. Where in Michigan are you from?
NVD20 reply :
On 10/10/2017 at 6:46 AM, 12poundbass said:Welcome to Bassresource from central Michigan. Where in Michigan are you from?
Southwest
jmcarriere reply :
On 9/28/2017 at 1:50 PM, OCdockskipper said:In baseball, bowling & poker (to name a few off the top of my head), the top professionals will compete in the leagues or divisions that feed the major league level. To try to limit the field by excluding top talent is a weak way to compete.
Bowling is a very poor example as i am also a bowler and there is no clear line between a pro and an amatuer in bowling since as long as you ha er 200 in a weekly league amd pay your PBA membership you can bowl against the top bowlers. And that is what BASS is trying to so is create a clear line do i think what they are doing with the opens is the correct way but at least you ha e to qualify to fish the elite series.
OCdockskipper reply :
On 10/10/2017 at 3:11 PM, jmcarriere said:Bowling is a very poor example...
Bowling is an example that has changed, for it used to be (30 years ago) difficult to average 200. With changes to equipment and lane conditions, averaging 200 now is not difficult at all and outlandish averages over 230 are not unusual. It is much easier to become a PBA member than it once was, unfortunately.
That said, the point is if you enter a scratch bowling tournament, there is no distinction that prevents any of the top talent from entering as well. I recall some folks that would complain that when the PBA tour used to come to Orange County (usually Fountain Bowl), you would see pro's bowling local scratch tournaments as well. Pete Weber, true to his nature, would usually mouth off to the locals, which never helped the situation.
Point is, in a competition, if it is an "Open" event, that includes everyone. If you don't want to compete against the best, fish a club tournament or bowl in a handicap league.
1simplemann reply :
On 10/1/2017 at 1:09 AM, Logan S said:And it only has 100 boats fishing...Compared to 200+ at some other Costa events. We just had a Costa series here on the Potomac that had 160+ at one of the toughest times of the year. The Costa is the only big national trail out there and they still only draw 100 boats for Clear Lake, one of the top fisheries in the nation. A full field for Costa/Opens is usually 150 boats, the Western series never even got within 20 boats of hitting that number in any of the 3 events.
It sucks for guys out west, but the numbers just aren't there. It's unlikely BASS would put an Opens series out there to compete with the Costas for the limited market.
2017 WON Bass Open on Lake Mead has 207 boats entered. Guys entered from all across the West! If these guys are doing it then BASS can too. Western anglers will support Western Opens.
Logan S reply :
On 10/17/2017 at 9:06 PM, 1simplemann said:2017 WON Bass Open on Lake Mead has 207 boats entered. Guys entered from all across the West! If these guys are doing it then BASS can too. Western anglers will support Western Opens.
Put it in perspective...Big events like the Basscat Owners or Triton Owners tournaments on this side of the country pump out 350+ boats routinely. 207 is big for western standards but still pretty normal if it were in the central/southern/eastern regions of the country.
Not trying to argue about it or anything...But I don't think people would disagree that the physical number of bass anglers out west is lower than it is in the rest of the country. I'd be happy to be proven wrong in the future though.
1simplemann reply :
Logan, It wasn't taken as an arguement. There is a misconception somewhere in BASS(and other places apparently) that the West won't support Open's out here. If the Western Outdoor News can put on an Open on Lake Mead and get 207 boats then BASS can do the same thing. They are the leading Bass fishing organization in the country. With their promotional abilities, I see no reason they can't have the same success W.O.N. is having out here. IMO it doesn't take 350 boats to put on a successful Open. We don't have the population base that you do but we definitely have the fisheries!
12poundbass reply :
I'm wondering if it's more of a sponsorship issue? Maybe companies don't see a high probability of getting a good return on their investment therefore don't see the value in sponsoring a B.A.S.S. open in the West. Just thinking out loud.
Logan S reply :
On 10/18/2017 at 8:52 PM, 1simplemann said:If the Western Outdoor News can put on an Open on Lake Mead and get 207 boats then BASS can do the same thing.
Its not just an open event...That event is the US Open put on by WON. It's an event with a long history (almost as long as the Classic I think?) and a good amount of prestige. I don't live out there, but from what I've read/heard over the years its THE event for western bass fishing. My point was, if the biggest event out there draws 207...BASS probably sees that more as a negative than a positive since many events without the history or prestige as the US Open can draw many more participants many times throughout the year over on this side of the US.
I'm really not defending BASS or trying to stick it to western guys....Just looking at the situation logically and I can see why BASS doesn't make moves out there, I wish they would put an Opens series out there since it would send more western guys to the Elites.
1simplemann reply :
It doesn't really matter how long the the WON Open has been going on. My point is this. If WON can have success out here then BASS can to. Simple. Central and northern,southern Opens typically have about 150-160 boats. BASS could have that many out here too with a little promotion. BASS holds themselves out to be the world's and the nation's leading authority on bass fishing yet they ignore a 1/3 of the nation that they operate in. Look at the an Elite roster. It's full of western anglers. They didn't get there by fishing a TVA reservoir every weekend. They learned their skills by fishing at home just like the rest of the country. There are lots of us out here and we spend money. If we had events to go to that were within reach, we would go to them.
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