Pro's Vs Joes Fishing 2024
DelfiBoyz_One_and_Only reply :
So I have been having a ongoing debate with my buddies about this one. In my bass club there are anglers who have been fishing our body of water for 20 to 30 plus years. These guys really know how to catch them consistently. My argument is that the elite pro's will not beat our seasoned club guys on this particular body of water. Everyone argues that the elite pro's are just that good and that they would win given a couple of days of prefishing. What is your thoughts? Are they so good that they can beat 20-30 years experience in a couple day of prefishing and win?
ALL Opinions Welcome (AOW).
Jay-
mtaag3 reply :
I had a similar discussion years ago with some golfing buddies that were scratch at our club. The deciding factor had a lot to do with the "intimidation" aspect meaning would you still play scratch on your home course with Tiger or Phil bombing it next to you. That may not be directly comparable but I wonder how some locals would react with 80k painted rigs doing 74mph all over the lake?
DelfiBoyz_One_and_Only reply :
The lake has a 9.9hp restriction.
Jay
hooah212002 reply :
IMO, pro's didn't get to where they are because they can't adapt to new water. Double that sentiment since you are talking about "elite" pro's. These guys get paid the big bucks (winnings and sponsors) simply because they can consistently catch fish. Not just on one body of water, but across the country. Maybe, just maybe, back in the old days before all the advancements in technology, the local guys had a shot. But today, given the proper equipment, someone who has never even seen the lake except for his topo map, his graph and a look at local weather patterns, has equal (if not better) chances of pulling in a good bag. Technology trumps lore. Science trumps gut instinct.
flyfisher reply :
I would have to side with the Pros side of this one. I am not saying the ywould win every time but i would bet that out of 100 tournaments the pros would win 96 of them and probably even higher percentage if it is a multi day tournament and not a 1 day deal.
Anyone who can go to a lake that they may fish once or twice a year and turn around and win a tournament is pretty remarkable really, otherwise we would all be pros 
roadwarrior reply :
Well, back to the golf analogy...Playing from the back tees, Tiger Woods could beat every club
chanmpion using nothing but a 7 iron.
Back to fishing, who knows about a 1 day contest, the locals might get lucky. However, if it's 3 days,
against a top 25 pro, I would bet the professional would win 99% of the time.
DelfiBoyz_One_and_Only reply :
The Pro's are good and yeah they know their stuff, no question about it. The only thing is this the local fishermen study maps and have spent countless hours on there home water. They know what the topo maps show and they also know spots that the topo maps don't show. A local fisherman will know what colors work best what presentations work best etc. The Pro's are going to have to figure this all out, basically they will have to know 30 years of experience in a couple days of prefishing. Is that even possible?
Here is a better question that will answer this. Are you a member of club on a lake that the elites/FLW/BFL/MLF fish, and if so, when the Pro's are there do they put up similar one day weights to your club members?
Hope that made since.
Jay
SPEEDBEAD. reply :
I think the pros would clean up on the Quan. 
HeavyDluxe reply :
I think the compromise (and correct) answer is that the Pros would win, but the locals would be probably be able to be competitive and keep it close.
IMHO, this goes back to all the equipment versus experience threads that sprang up a while ago. In the end, the ability to understand the fish's likely behavior given the conditions and use that knowledge to find and catch 'em is vitally important. This is where the best of the best distinguish themselves.
It could be close, I think - especially if the local is able to 'fish his game', as it were, unaware of the pros presence. This gets rid of the psych out factor above. Still, in the end, the pro will win more often than not.
An interesting thought experiment would be if you were to limit the pro re: some resources. In other words, what if the pro and angler were both limited to a couple techniques/presentations and forced to fish from the bank only? What set of 'handicaps' for the pro would result in the most level field?
keith71 reply :
Its a whole body of work that makes a pro,if you let them practice a day or two they will win.To be more realistic,put a pro and a Joe on a body of water that neither has fished to see the true talent.
OkeechobeeAngler reply :
There has been countless local guys get spanked by pros on their home lake. Look at how many times the Martins have been beat on Okeechobee for example.
DelfiBoyz_One_and_Only reply :
On 4/25/2013 at 12:07 AM, keith71 said:Its a whole body of work that makes a pro,if you let them practice a day or two they will win.To be more realistic,put a pro and a Joe on a body of water that neither has fished to see the true talent.
Hands down the Pro would win in a strange body of water. I am talking about a local tournament angler in a body of water that the local angler has fished for 20+ years. Introduce a Pro to that same body of water give them a couple of days and then seeing what happens.
Jay
DelfiBoyz_One_and_Only reply :
On 4/25/2013 at 12:52 AM, OkeechobeeAngler said:There has been countless local guys get spanked by pros on their home lake. Look at how many times the Martins have been beat on Okeechobee for example.
Very Very very good point.
Jay
MarkH024 reply :
On 4/24/2013 at 10:33 PM, roadwarrior said:Well, back to the golf analogy...Playing from the back tees, Tiger Woods could beat every club
chanmpion using nothing but a 7 iron.
Back to fishing, who knows about a 1 day contest, the locals might get lucky. However, if it's 3 days,
against a top 25 pro, I would bet the professional would win 99% of the time.
I'm with this guy.
jhoffman reply :
They would walk all over the locals then take a victory lap. No if ands or buts. The local would absolutely HAVE TO HAVE all the features the pros boat has and know how to use it to stand a chance.
Im about the only guy in my club that doesnt have side scan and believe me, its apparent.
Grantman83 reply :
Look at the home lake curse in the classic....only one guy (Boyd) has won in his home state. I would give then locals a chance, but the pros are the best for a reason. Top pros rarely win on their home waters. The last guy I can think of to do it was Biffle back in 2010 when a tourney was moved to his home lake short notice. That gave him an advantage since other pros didnt have a full practice....
Goose21 reply :
They're elite pros because they have been consistently good fishing many different types of waters, usually for years.
In a two or three day tourney a local may prevail IMO, but but that doesn't make the local a better fisherman. If I was Vegas I would favor the elite pro, but I dont think its automatic. Give that same local a similiar boat to all the rest and have him fish a season with the elites or the FLW and I think he would consistently struggle.
DelfiBoyz_One_and_Only reply :
On 4/25/2013 at 8:27 AM, Goose21 said:They're elite pros because they have been consistently good fishing many different types of waters, usually for years.
In a two or three day tourney a local may prevail IMO, but but that doesn't make the local a better fisherman. If I was Vegas I would favor the elite pro, but I dont think its automatic. Give that same local a similiar boat to all the rest and have him fish a season with the elites or the FLW and I think he would consistently struggle.
Agreed! I am in no way implying that a Joe can beat a pro all the time. Is it agreed that experience with new electronic is one of the biggest advantages.
Jay
james 14 reply :
We may see this play out on a local lake down here next year. One of the guys who consistently pulls in 25-30lb bags has joined a BASS affiliated club to be eligible to fish the Opens. I'm not sure the pros can match him especially if he gets on them like he often does.
Goose21 reply :
I can't speak for your local sticks, but in my area many have large SI and DI units, in addition to years of experience on a given lake.On 4/25/2013 at 9:05 AM, Delfi_Boyz said:Agreed! I am in no way implying that a Joe can beat a pro all the time. Is it agreed that experience with new electronic is one of the biggest advantages.
Jay
You're right though, the ability to read and effectively use today's technology does play a pivotal role and some are better than others at using it to their advantage. This is one area that I think seperates the pro's from the Joes.
DelfiBoyz_One_and_Only reply :
On 4/26/2013 at 10:07 AM, james 14 said:We may see this play out on a local lake down here next year. One of the guys who consistently pulls in 25-30lb bags has joined a BASS affiliated club to be eligible to fish the Opens. I'm not sure the pros can match him especially if he gets on them like he often does.
That's what I am talkin about. Same with my club the guys are always pulling big numbers consistently. I am not sure that the Pro's can show up, prefish for a couple of days, and out do these guys. Given that these Joe’s would get murdered anywhere else, but home field advantage is a huge advantage. Thanks for your input!
Jay
BrettD reply :
The pros come to to Okeechobee and beat the local sticks all the time in the flw open tournements. The is usually atleast on local stick in the mix though.
mjseverson24 reply :
In this case to the origional post about pro's coming to your local lake that only has a 9.9 hp restriction, I would definately give the advantage to the local guys. the pro's are really good at what they do, but on assumingly a small lake and little to no major tournament information the pro's would be fishing more or less blind. They may stumble on to some area of the lake that has been overlooked by the locals but that is a big "if" given the size of the lake. The defigning quality of a pro is to be versitile and be able to compete in any situation they are put in. that being said I think they would be competitive, and out of 100 trials they would probabily win about 40.
Mitch
Sun Fish reply :
Well also look at it this way. 20+ years ago we didn't have the internet and the wealth of information we do today. Today a teenager can spend time online studying bass fishing or any game of skill for that matter and have similiar or better understanding than the older guys who took 20+ years of trial and error to figure things out.
A solid example even though it's not related to fishing at all. In the prime of online poker prior to things getting shut down in this country. Young guys out there who truly excelled at the game and poured their heart and soul into studying, playing and analyzing as many hands as possible had surpassed the experience of old time card sharks that have been at it for 30+ years in live card rooms within only a couple years. Many of them went on to make multi millions of dollars and those who have, left the country to continue their pursuits after the government dropped the hammer. Others entered the live poker scene in this country and have been breating the pants off the old time pros who would have been considered the best prior to this new generation of players.
You can be assured that all the top teir bass pros out there that are older have the decades of on the water experience as well as taking advantage of all the modern resources out there to improve. Part of the reason why you see many young anglers rapidly climbing to the top.
Bass_Fanatic reply :
If the pros came to my local lake and fished against my club, Im betting on my club members. Heck, Im betting on myself lol.
smalljaw67 reply :
On 4/26/2013 at 8:33 PM, mjseverson24 said:In this case to the origional post about pro's coming to your local lake that only has a 9.9 hp restriction, I would definately give the advantage to the local guys. the pro's are really good at what they do, but on assumingly a small lake and little to no major tournament information the pro's would be fishing more or less blind. They may stumble on to some area of the lake that has been overlooked by the locals but that is a big "if" given the size of the lake. The defigning quality of a pro is to be versitile and be able to compete in any situation they are put in. that being said I think they would be competitive, and out of 100 trials they would probabily win about 40.
Mitch
I agree with Mitch, a lot different when there is no ifformation on a small lake going against someone who has fished it for 20 years but it also depends on the pro. Did you see the classic? How many pros could not fish cold water, I was amazed at that so don't think for a moment that a pro would win hands down in that situation.
derekxec reply :
one question...how pro are the pros without the fish finders/depth finders, shad machines, etc that find the fish for them?
if you want to put a pro vs a joe take them to a lake neither has fished with only rods, tackle, boat and motor and no gadgets and see who wins
OkeechobeeAngler reply :
On 5/3/2013 at 6:00 AM, derekxec said:one question...how pro are the pros without the fish finders/depth finders, shad machines, etc that find the fish for them?
if you want to put a pro vs a joe take them to a lake neither has fished with only rods, tackle, boat and motor and no gadgets and see who wins
Same thing happen in the 60's on up before all the electronics came about. Most Pro's are pro's for a reason. That's why they fish for a living and we sit here and type about it,
derekxec reply :
back then was harder to be a pro now half the battle is over without doing anything....i catch numbers and decent size bass everyday without riding around till i see them on a fish finder etc...if i can find them easily then pros should be able to without electronics doing half their job lol
mjseverson24 reply :
On 5/3/2013 at 10:45 AM, derekxec said:back then was harder to be a pro now half the battle is over without doing anything....i catch numbers and decent size bass everyday without riding around till i see them on a fish finder etc...if i can find them easily then pros should be able to without electronics doing half their job lol
ehhh... I am going to have to disagree, you put a lowrance HDS 10 with structure scan on a guys boat who does not know how to use it and he will probabily catch less fish than he would have without it. in the earlier years of fishing, the lakes did not see anywhere neer the pressure that they do now, the fish have adapted over time to lures sights and smells. also the efficiency of the pro fisherman today is unmatched throughout history, the weights are better throughout the entire field of pros. technology is a tool but a tool in the hands of an untrianed worker is just a paperweight or a hammer, you put that tool in the hands of a craftsman and they can do some very impressive things. dont discredit the hard work professionals put into their trade.
Mitch
DelfiBoyz_One_and_Only reply :
I'm not trying to take anything away from the pro's, but average joes are also getting well adapted to new technologies. A couple of guys in my club have down imaging and side imaging on their Jon boats. There are a lot of very good weekend warriors now, more so than 20years ago. The OP is just based on pro's coming to someone's home lake that they have fished for over 20 years and beating them on their home water.On 5/3/2013 at 11:34 PM, mjseverson24 said:ehhh... I am going to have to disagree, you put a lowrance HDS 10 with structure scan on a guys boat who does not know how to use it and he will probabily catch less fish than he would have without it. in the earlier years of fishing, the lakes did not see anywhere neer the pressure that they do now, the fish have adapted over time to lures sights and smells. also the efficiency of the pro fisherman today is unmatched throughout history, the weights are better throughout the entire field of pros. technology is a tool but a tool in the hands of an untrianed worker is just a paperweight or a hammer, you put that tool in the hands of a craftsman and they can do some very impressive things. dont discredit the hard work professionals put into their trade.
Mitch
Jay
derekxec reply :
On 5/3/2013 at 11:34 PM, mjseverson24 said:ehhh... I am going to have to disagree, you put a lowrance HDS 10 with structure scan on a guys boat who does not know how to use it and he will probabily catch less fish than he would have without it. in the earlier years of fishing, the lakes did not see anywhere neer the pressure that they do now, the fish have adapted over time to lures sights and smells. also the efficiency of the pro fisherman today is unmatched throughout history, the weights are better throughout the entire field of pros. technology is a tool but a tool in the hands of an untrianed worker is just a paperweight or a hammer, you put that tool in the hands of a craftsman and they can do some very impressive things. dont discredit the hard work professionals put into their trade.
Mitch
ah im not trying to discredit them i just dont see why if they are pros why they need all this stuff to locate fish...now days we live in a tech world and most people could learn how to use the devices in not a lot of time just by looking on youtube....personally i think pros should be able to find the fish by their knowledge and experience of fishing and catching fish and not take the easy way of having a machine find their fish and then they can throw a bunch of baits and those fish will eventually bite
guess i just believe this is one area that technology should be very very limited.... i mean whats next machines that do the fishing for you too?
Mainebass1984 reply :
My club has tournaments on lake champlain and so does a lot of other clubs. Usually to win you need to average atleast 4.25 lbs per fish it be in contention. That is what the pros average when they come to visit each year. We have had club tournaments where 24 lbs has won it for five fish and several other people were close. There also are quite a few opens on champlain every year and yet again it takes an average of 4.25 per fish to be in contention. Against the pros in a one day tourney i think that there would be a lot of locals in contention for sure. The multilpe day format would be much tougher on the local guys. I still think that they would contend though. The pros def would have the upper hand on electronics, boats, and gear. I follow the pro tourneys on champlain every year. Some of the pros dont even get a limit or they get a 8 lb limit. In a sluggfest of the best pros against the best locals with the same gear, electronics and boats I think that the locals would surprise a lot of the pros. I think they should try it on champlain. What a fun tourney that would be. I am sure it would get a lot of coverage.
jhoffman reply :
The thing about local guys is they kill themselves on day one. In my bass club on certain lakes you can almost with certainty say where a specific boat is going to be if he gets there first. They box themselves in. So they go to that hole thats produced big fish and they stick five and come in day 1 with 25lbs lets say. Theyre never even gonna see day 4 because they dont have any other spots to produce 25lbs of fish.
If you think electronics are making the fishing like shooting them in a barrel you are naive. The fish finder doesnt tell you with down imaging that its a largemouth on that tree, hell it could be a catfish.
hooah212002 reply :
On 5/11/2013 at 4:29 AM, jhoffman said:
If you think electronics are making the fishing like shooting them in a barrel you are naive. The fish finder doesnt tell you with down imaging that its a largemouth on that tree, hell it could be a catfish.
HA! Too true. The spot I fish from shore always has boats pull up and the guys look at their electronics and get all wide eyed because there are actually tons of fish there. they pop trolling motor down and start casting (a little too close to me, if you don't mind my say so).
Too bad they're mostly carp. If they had their polarized glasses on they'd realize that.
JEC reply :
imo anyone can get beat on any given day but you do see alot of b a s s opens being won by locals and there are elites fishing these tournaments
DADAKOTA reply :
I have seen this scenario play out. Brett Chapman fished a buddy tourney on a 350 acre lake against the locals. He had his wrapped boat and all his high tech gear. He did not make the check line.
PABASS reply :
I have found that locals don't typically read electronics or know what there electronics are telling them, a Pro doesn't make this mistake. A pro for sure would beat out the local guru or any said body of water any day of the week, month or year. Think about this each pro has there own local body of water that they probably grew up fishing but yet the local pros don't always win them. Keep in mind Pros are not catching fish they are catching the largest stringer of 5 fish they can, locals typically wont target the 5 biggest fish in the lake, the pros do and for good reason. These guys are smart, logical thinkers that can break down a lake before getting to the lake, maybe even develop a big bite pattern before they even hit the water. Could you imagine if you were that local that destroyed everyone else in your area, competing against KVD, when Pros are scared of you then what you think a local would do?
DelfiBoyz_One_and_Only reply :
On 5/16/2013 at 4:00 AM, PABASS said:I have found that locals don't typically read electronics or know what there electronics are telling them, a Pro doesn't make this mistake. A pro for sure would beat out the local guru or any said body of water any day of the week, month or year. Think about this each pro has there own local body of water that they probably grew up fishing but yet the local pros don't always win them. Keep in mind Pros are not catching fish they are catching the largest stringer of 5 fish they can, locals typically wont target the 5 biggest fish in the lake, the pros do and for good reason. These guys are smart, logical thinkers that can break down a lake before getting to the lake, maybe even develop a big bite pattern before they even hit the water. Could you imagine if you were that local that destroyed everyone else in your area, competing against KVD, when Pros are scared of you then what you think a local would do?
I would have to completely disagree with you on most of what you have written. I know a lot of people that fish lakes and rivers that depend, and know how to use, their electronics. Give the Joe's "some" credit. In fact some Joe's are good enough to make it pro, but choice not to. Every year some Joe's win invitational and opens and become Pro's. Most pros fished in everyday clubs until they decided to make the move. In fact something like 75% of all the Elite Pro's that fished the Classic got beat by the rookies that were Joe's just last year.
Just saying
Jay-
Zach Dunham reply :
I think about this a lot like I think about playing poker. Even the best poker players don't WIN that many tournaments, you just consistently cash. Pros will do consistently better than 99% of locals, but they may not win every time (In a 4 day tournament maybe they would win every time).
PABASS reply :
On 5/16/2013 at 8:05 AM, Delfi_Boyz said:I would have to completely disagree with you on most of what you have written. I know a lot of people that fish lakes and rivers that depend, and know how to use, their electronics. Give the Joe's "some" credit. In fact some Joe's are good enough to make it pro, but choice not to. Every year some Joe's win invitational and opens and become Pro's. Most pros fished in everyday clubs until they decided to make the move. In fact something like 75% of all the Elite Pro's that fished the Classic got beat by the rookies that were Joe's just last year.
Just saying
Jay-
I cant recall his name atm but a local texan is doing very well on the Bassmasters I think this year or last year was his first ever and he already won an elite, I bet he beat local and non locals alike and why he decided to go pro. I am not saying that somewhere a local cant compete I am saying in my experience I haven't meet one yet. Also keep in mind PA isn't known for Pro Bass fisherman, we have them but its hard to compete against a person that can fish all year round. I only know a few joes and they are local to me and I don't see them being able to compete against a KVD, I hope I am wrong. It sounds like you know a few that believe they can compete against a pro, why do they believe that?
DelfiBoyz_One_and_Only reply :
On 5/16/2013 at 9:41 PM, PABASS said:I cant recall his name atm but a local texan is doing very well on the Bassmasters I think this year or last year was his first ever and he already won an elite, I bet he beat local and non locals alike and why he decided to go pro. I am not saying that somewhere a local cant compete I am saying in my experience I haven't meet one yet. Also keep in mind PA isn't known for Pro Bass fisherman, we have them but its hard to compete against a person that can fish all year round. I only know a few joes and they are local to me and I don't see them being able to compete against a KVD, I hope I am wrong. It sounds like you know a few that believe they can compete against a pro, why do they believe that?
Although going Pro is a amazing accomplishment and a desirable dream for most it isn't for everyone. There is a lot of sacrifice involved in becoming a Pro for the Pro as well as his family. I live in VA not too far from PA, and if the lake and river isn’t frozen there will be people out fishing. The Joe’s I speak of have successful careers and are happy fishing locally and events for fun, there is a lot of stress when fishing for a living. Jason Christie and Hank Cherrie were Joe’s last year and are beating most of the Pros this year. They are not winning every event by no means, but are pretty consistently towards the top.
I guess my main point is that not every Joe is derisory. Some actually have the knowledge and ability to be more if they so choice. If the Joe knows his water better than the Pro then I am just going to have to believe that the Joe is going to have the advantage regardless of the outcome.
Jay-
Fishing Cowgirl reply :
I think it is also who manages their fish better. As in having go to areas that will last you throughout a 3-4 day tournament, versus a couple spots that has great fish, but doesn't replinish quickly under the conditions. A 1 or 2 day tournament I'd go with the locals, but after that, it would be the pro or local that has a better fish managment plan.
We've had locals dominate in the BASS Opens first days, but on the last day struggle to make a limit or it's a small one. The guy who was consistent or versatile, ended up winning.
Zach Dunham reply :
On 5/16/2013 at 10:28 PM, Delfi_Boyz said:Although going Pro is a amazing accomplishment and a desirable dream for most it isn't for everyone. There is a lot of sacrifice involved in becoming a Pro for the Pro as well as his family. I live in VA not too far from PA, and if the lake and river isn’t frozen there will be people out fishing. The Joe’s I speak of have successful careers and are happy fishing locally and events for fun, there is a lot of stress when fishing for a living. Jason Christie and Hank Cherrie were Joe’s last year and are beating most of the Pros this year. They are not winning every event by no means, but are pretty consistently towards the top.
I guess my main point is that not every Joe is derisory. Some actually have the knowledge and ability to be more if they so choice. If the Joe knows his water better than the Pro then I am just going to have to believe that the Joe is going to have the advantage regardless of the outcome.
Jay-
Jason Christie was most definitely not a Joe. He has been fishing FLW Majors for years now.
DelfiBoyz_One_and_Only reply :
On 5/17/2013 at 3:42 AM, imanidiot777 said:Jason Christie was most definitely not a Joe. He has been fishing FLW Majors for years now.
I have been corrected.
Dinky reply :
On 4/24/2013 at 10:36 PM, Delfi_Boyz said:The Pro's are good and yeah they know their stuff, no question about it. The only thing is this the local fishermen study maps and have spent countless hours on there home water. They know what the topo maps show and they also know spots that the topo maps don't show. A local fisherman will know what colors work best what presentations work best etc. The Pro's are going to have to figure this all out, basically they will have to know 30 years of experience in a couple days of prefishing. Is that even possible?
Here is a better question that will answer this. Are you a member of club on a lake that the elites/FLW/BFL/MLF fish, and if so, when the Pro's are there do they put up similar one day weights to your club members?
Hope that made since.
Jay
On 4/24/2013 at 10:36 PM, Delfi_Boyz said:The Pro's are good and yeah they know their stuff, no question about it. The only thing is this the local fishermen study maps and have spent countless hours on there home water. They know what the topo maps show and they also know spots that the topo maps don't show. A local fisherman will know what colors work best what presentations work best etc. The Pro's are going to have to figure this all out, basically they will have to know 30 years of experience in a couple days of prefishing. Is that even possible?
Here is a better question that will answer this. Are you a member of club on a lake that the elites/FLW/BFL/MLF fish, and if so, when the Pro's are there do they put up similar one day weights to your club members?
Hope that made since.
Jay
A one day weight is not really a good test/comparison. It needs to be a level playing field as follows
Tournament would be four (4) days.
Lake would be off limits for 60 days prior to the tournament.
Three official practice days-eg-mon. -wed. Anglers can only pre-fish with another tournament angler entered in the tournament.
During off limits period- as well as tournament- no info from any source other than public source.
No co- anglers. Marshalls to be used with bass track systems.
No nets. No cell phone use except in emergency.
All other general rules apply such as: no A-rigs can be used, no culling dead fish, penalties for dead fish, etc.
Only then will you be able to have a true comparison of who is better on a local fisherman's home lake. (no horsepower restricted lakes could be use of course.)
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