Solutions To Fish Mortality In Tournaments 2024
roadwarrior reply :
Some combination of the following:
1. Paper tournaments only, by length not weight.
2. Weigh-in (release) sites located around the lake with mandatory weighing everytime those sites are passed by participants.
3. Oxygen injected live wells.
4. Forbid C-rig technique in tournaments.
5. Reduced bag limits for specific lakes or conditions (hot weather).
6. Require a boat for holding and releasing bass away from shore.
More ideas?
fishfordollars reply :
Stagered Weighin
Live well additive mandotory
Shorter hours
Required to leave livewell pumps running during all tournament hours
3 fish limit
No cull rule(If it goes in it stays in)
Shad_Master reply :
Just curious - how would outlawing C-rig help with fish mortality rate? There have been numerous posts on this site about dealing with gut hooked fish and they all seem to suggest that the fish will be alright - this is what I have observed and have always thought. RW, can you elaborate?
roadwarrior reply :
In the Falcon thread it was mentioned that Carolina rigging often results in deep gut hooks which tends to increase mortality. Although deeply imbedded hooks can usually be recovered, that is not always the case. It might be implied that some tournament fisherman are not willing to take the required time and care to successfully address the problem. Obviously, at this last B.A.S.S. event, caring for bass was not a high priority or was terribly neglected.
jbasscus reply :
RW, Whats the best thing to as far as gut hooked fish? I've been told the best thing to do is cut the line and the hook will come out eventually. That doesn't sound right to me???????
roadwarrior reply :
QuoteRW, Whats the best thing to as far as gut hooked fish? I've been told the best thing to do is cut the line and the hook will come out eventually. That doesn't sound right to me???????
http://www.in-fisherman.com/magazine/articles/if2806_HookRemoval/index.html
8-)
jbasscus reply :
Thanks RW
WRB reply :
There should be no issue fishing any artifical lure presentation. Gut hooking bass by professional fisherman is very rare. Yes, the statement was made, however ill stated IMO. The C-rigs used in the Falcon event had big over size soft plastic that even a big bass can't swallow down it's gullet that quickly.
1. You will never achieve 100% survival rates, the goal should be to keep the rate as low as possible. A bass can engulf any lure at any time and damage their gills and that can be fatal.
2. All professional bass tournaments, where money is awarded, should have oxygenator type DO generators with DO level monitors biult in the livewells. The livewells should also have water temperature controlled circulation systems, when the surface water exceeds 75 degrees. One large livewell with a removable partican should be used, not two smaller separate units.
3. Live boats with large 1,500 gallon holding tanks should be on site at every event. Anglers can call the live boat for a pick up, the pro's call if they determine they have a big bass to pick up. Tamper proof tag the bass with the pro's number for TV weighins.
4. Make the over stressed bass or dead bass penalty severe; 2 lbs or twice the weight of the dead or dieng bass. Kill a bass over 10 lbs and you loose the days total catch weight. If a live boat is available, it
should be a no brainer to call for a pick.
5. Paper tournaments should not be determined by bass length, the girth also needs to be included. Use the formula; L X L X G /1200 = weight, is as accurate as the measurement validated.
Just a note; I have caught hundreds of big bass over the years, several 50+ 5 bass limits. I do not use a livewell to hold my bass while fishing. I made up a 10 foot stringer from 300 lb marlin mono leader that has 2 stainlees steel safety lock clips, a stopper to keep the clips from sliding up the mono and a 1 pound sinker on the end. Where I fish we don't have gators to eat something hanging over the side of the boat, so that is not an issue. I simply clip on a big bass and lower over the side, then put it into the live well when moving. I have 2 stringers and can keep 4 big bass in the lake water while fishing for the 5th bass. Load them up into the livewell for short few minute ride back to the marina, if I want to have the weighed. Most of the time I release a big bass right away before leaving the area caught. If the pro's at Falcon had this type of stringer, it would have saved the day for them.
WRB
Gatorbassman reply :
1. Boats need to have insulated livewells with separate recalculating and aeration pumps. They also need a removable separator.
2. Educate anglers and tournament officials on the proper care of fish in livewell. Including the use of Catch and Release or Please Release Me additives. (Extensive studies have shown that if these products are used the right way, 97% of the fish are still alive one month after the tournament.)
3. Use of a specially designed holding tank where the fish can be cared for and monitored before release. (i.e. The tank that Bass Champs uses.)
flechero reply :
Quote4. Forbid C-rig technique in tournaments.
This one baffles me. Not that you suggested it, but that it happens so regularly. Am I a freak or just the luckiest guy on earth that I rarely hook a fish deep with a c-rig? Maybe I fish it too fast... or maybe I don't lose contact for more than a couple seconds.
fishfordollars reply :
QuoteThere should be no issue fishing any artifical lure presentation. Gut hooking bass by professional fisherman is very rare. Yes, the statement was made, however ill stated IMO. The C-rigs used in the Falcon event had big over size soft plastic that even a big bass can't swallow down it's gullet that quickly.1. You will never achieve 100% survival rates, the goal should be to keep the rate as low as possible. A bass can engulf any lure at any time and damage their gills and that can be fatal.
2. All professional bass tournaments, where money is awarded, should have oxygenator type DO generators with DO level monitors biult in the livewells. The livewells should also have water temperature controlled circulation systems, when the surface water exceeds 75 degrees. One large livewell with a removable partican should be used, not two smaller separate units.
3. Live boats with large 1,500 gallon holding tanks should be on site at every event. Anglers can call the live boat for a pick up, the pro's call if they determine they have a big bass to pick up. Tamper proof tag the bass with the pro's number for TV weighins.
4. Make the over stressed bass or dead bass penalty severe; 2 lbs or twice the weight of the dead or dieng bass. Kill a bass over 10 lbs and you loose the days total catch weight. If a live boat is available, it
should be a no brainer to call for a pick.
5. Paper tournaments should not be determined by bass length, the girth also needs to be included. Use the formula; L X L X G /1200 = weight, is as accurate as the measurement validated.
Just a note; I have caught hundreds of big bass over the years, several 50+ 5 bass limits. I do not use a livewell to hold my bass while fishing. I made up a 10 foot stringer from 300 lb marlin mono leader that has 2 stainlees steel safety lock clips, a stopper to keep the clips from sliding up the mono and a 1 pound sinker on the end. Where I fish we don't have gators to eat something hanging over the side of the boat, so that is not an issue. I simply clip on a big bass and lower over the side, then put it into the live well when moving. I have 2 stringers and can keep 4 big bass in the lake water while fishing for the 5th bass. Load them up into the livewell for short few minute ride back to the marina, if I want to have the weighed. Most of the time I release a big bass right away before leaving the area caught. If the pro's at Falcon had this type of stringer, it would have saved the day for them.
WRB
I am still trying to digest the "Several 50+ 5 bass limits". Mine telling us what part of the country you are in? Sorry, did not intend to hijack this thread.
Gatorbassman reply :
QuoteQuote4. Forbid C-rig technique in tournaments.
This one baffles me. Not that you suggested it, but that it happens so regularly. Am I a freak or just the luckiest guy on earth that I rarely hook a fish deep with a c-rig? Maybe I fish it too fast... or maybe I don't lose contact for more than a couple seconds.
I don't remember the last time I gut hooked a fish with a C-rig either.
FishinDaddy reply :
I live in Fl where 90*+ water temps are prevalent from July until September. I take two 32 oz gatorade bottles and freeze them. I don't fill my live wells in the marina. At my first spot I take a few minutes to half fill the live wells, add the frozen bottles, and turn on the recirculate. At only half full the water splashes at lot adding o2 and the ice causes temp inside the box drops to the 70's. When adding fish I add more water. This was a formula encouraged by my local Bassmaster Chapter.
I don't know the chemistry behind this but I lost ZERO fish last year.
Big-O reply :
Agree with you RW and maybe this:
Maybe we need to have a hands free certified scale weighing system on board each tournament boat that not only records weight but also snaps a digital photo of each fish on scale and with visual chart behind or under fish recording length girth etc. Is this expensive, yes at first it would be until the technology catches on to it and they would become much cheaper. Let's face it, catch the fish, weigh it and release it back to it's natural habitat is not only the safest for the fish but also maintains the fishery at its highest level. It does away with the need to work out the livewell systems being too small at some lakes for two anglers, and constantly abusing the fish by cking one fish against the other for culling rights not to mention the slamming they take all day in the boat and then getting dumped back in the water in a strange place they have never been before. Scared to death and in a state of physical and mental shock and now in a foriegn place, "Boy that sounds like a something the fish deserves for hitting our bait! The scale would record all of your fish and list your top five as needed. There you go guy's, you want an idea to run with, it's your's for the taking. Now do ya think there will be those who will try to get around the system and cheat? Only the @%*$_*& will. But if there are two in boat and detector test for winners "Wallah". Lot of whiners out there that would rather gripe about this type of program than respect our favorite natural resource's at their highest level.
BTW, if we're gonna carolina rig no matter what, then let's use a big enough hook that if the fish has it in their gut when we land them, we can go into their gut and pull it out. Carry the long neck pinchers with you so you can at least give these valuable fish some % opportunity to live. Facts are in, and the majority of all fish in fresh water that have a hook left in there gut or throat die's from it. Many try to say that the acid in a bass' stomach will dissolve it in no time. This is not true and has been proven otherwise. Let's give them a chance, after all,they gave us one.
Brian_Reeves reply :
I actually have a bigger problem with jigs and texas rigs than I do C-Rigs when it comes to gut hooking fish. Not sure what that's all about, but after fishing a carolina rig for a decade, I can't recall one time that I deep hooked a fish :-?
Big-O reply :
Could be because you stay in touch with your bait better than most folks. Other causes are extremely small hooks and baits as well as longer leaders that give the fish an opportunity to pick up and swallow prior to the angler feeling the fish. Extremely heavy weights is another culprit.
If the fish is not in the trailing position, the hit is not as noticeable when the fish picks up bait from front or side angles.
www.ragetail.com
Lane reply :
Lack of experience with C-rigging by co-anglers contributed to dead
fish being weighed in. The PROFESSIONAL anglers are experienced
at this technique, so mortality due to C-rigging is really not a factor
with them.
A couple of the pros told me that co-anglers asked for baits (the pros baits) along with assistance. The pros are out there on tournament day
trying to make a living. They have enough to deal with! I hear this all
of the time from pros. Read my other post in the other thread dealing
with fish mortality.
Big-O reply :
Thanks Lane, You guys are an invaluable resource to this growing yet troubled industry. Now if we could just get the word out.
Thanks for all you do
Steve Parks
www.ragetail.com
lknbassman reply :
On water scales in different parts of the lake sounds like a great idea and seems easy enough to do with a final adding up of the weights at the launch site. Takes the drama out of a big bag coming to the scales but preserves the resource and it'd be kind of like a lotto drawing drama wise anyway with the weights being called out. Could be fun???
C rigging, I don't even know where to begin with this one. It may be a technique thing or a big bass thing since they don't usually hit a bait as hard as smaller fish do and instead inhale them which can lead to deep hooking for certain. It happens to me with wacky rigged senkos now and again too. When it does I use long hook cutters to cut the barb off and slide the shank back out with long nosed needle nose pliers without injuring the fish as best I can when that happens and have had success with it from what I can tell as the fish seem lively and not really banged up from the process. Don't know what else to do???
Hot water in livewells does the most damage I'd suspect which is why the on water scales seems to make alot of sense to me.
cart7t reply :
Charger bass boats has a unique livewell system where LW water is circulated through copper tubes down in a cooler and repumped back in. The idea is to fill the cooler section with ice. This works pretty good I'm told when lake waters are warm. I don't think this would've had any effect at Falcon where apparently the fish were so large they were essentially being overcrowded in the livewells.
I'd suggest a boat side paper weigh-in like they do with saltwater though that sorta ruins the show aspect of a weigh in. I don't really have an answer.
Tin reply :
I'm not in favor of it in tourney's but it would sure work. If you are fishing on an smallmouth factory like Onidea or Erie and you are using a stickbait or drop-shot rig you must use a circle hook.
If I'm using one of those two and fishing a smallie lake, as soon as you feel the fish it is usually to late and down too deep.
GobbleDog reply :
Is bass mortality really that big of a problem? I'd guesstimate that in my 20 boat club, less than 5% of all the bass that were weighed-in last year were dead. I don't think that's nearly enough to justify any stringent new rules.
roadwarrior reply :
QuoteIs bass mortality really that big of a problem? I'd guesstimate that in my 20 boat club, less than 5% of all the bass that were weighed-in last year were dead. I don't think that's nearly enough to justify any stringent new rules.
If it's a "general" problem it should be addressed "generally".
If it's a "specific" problem it should be addressed "specifically".
In this case, the fish kill was a B.A.S.S./ ESPN problem which they failed to address at all! Additionally, they walked away from the clean-up. So, regardless of "who's to blame", solutions must be implemented in order to prevent future losses.
GobbleDog reply :
QuoteIf it's a "general" problem it should be addressed "generally".
If it's a "specific" problem it should be addressed "specifically".
In this case, the fish kill was a B.A.S.S./ ESPN problem which they failed to address at all! Additionally, they walked away from the clean-up. So, regardless of "who's to blame", solutions must be implemented in order to prevent future losses.
It's good for BASS's image to keep the kills low, agreed. Bass-population wise, I doubt it generally has much effect.
roadwarrior reply :
Well now, here's the story as I have heard it told.
Back when Ray Scott started B.A.S.S. the tournaments had a 10 bass limit and all the fish were kept, killed and eaten! Scott, so the story goes, noticed a significant decline in numbers caught and lower weight "big bass" over a period of years due to excessive harvest by tournament fishermen. Now, as a savy marketing genius, Ray Scott may have also perceived some negative reaction by the general public seeing all those dead fish, too. The point is, Mr. Scott conceived and introduced "Catch & Release" as we know it today.
So, killing 500 (?) big bass might impact Falcon Lake. With all the lesser tournaments around the country and throughout the year, this may result in thousands of fish unintentionally lost annually. As the title of this thread implies, I just want us all to think about solutions, not excuses for the problem.
8-)
Lane reply :
GobbleDog, I have consulted with other biologists and Doug Hannon
on this matter, and they DISAGREE. Generally, the damage is
collateral. Not only was a significant population of LARGE BROODSTOCK bass removed over the period of four days. (Doug estimated approximately 4,000 acres), but it gives ALL anglers a
black eye in the non-angling public's view which is NOT GOOD for
the sportfishing industry. Especially when the numbers of freshwater
anglers has been steadily declining.
Falcon is a trophy bass fishery that's success is due TOTALLY to nature
and not from the efforts of Texas Parks and Wildlife. If it is going to continue to produce trophy class fish it MUST BE MANAGED with the
aid of TPW. Lake Fork is a world renowned trophy bass fishery, the
slot has helped the fishery quickly rebound during tough years of
poor recruitment and the LMBV. Many of the businesses and locals
living down in Zapata want the lake managed by TPW. Many including
myself want the daily bag limit to be reduced from five fish to three
fish for ALL USER GROUPS. We know that the slot has IMPROVED the
fishery on Lake Fork. The slot was also instrumental in allowing decimated red drum populations to rebound after gill netting was made
illegal. NOW is the time for action, not next year. Amistad is a prime
example of what can happen to a fishery in a short period of time.
Most angling user groups have reported less catchable and or quality
fish since the first Elite Series was televised. Showcasing a quality
fishery is a good thing AS LONG AS MANAGEMENT IS IN PUT INTO
PLACE within a short period of time. Reducing daily bag limits or
implementing slots will prevent a quality fishery from becoming a victim of it's success. That has been proven time and time again.
WRB reply :
The following suggested instructions should be followed whenever a bass tournament is scheduled where big bass are known to be caught during the event.
http://www.sure-life.com/pdf/bass_champs_falcon_tips.pdf
WRB
Matt Fly reply :
Boat manufacturer's need to go back to the 3rd livewell on the front deck and or increase the capacity of the other two.
Set a limit of 3 bass for the co angler when needed.
Pro has two wells when needed, and we don't eliminate the co boater.
Again, numbers like this have NEVER been seen before, just look at the number of limits brought in compared to all other tournaments. Thats alot of fish coming across the scales.
I like the Redfish Cup weigh-in system also. Fished weighed in water, don't know if that would work for 5 fish, but worth looking at.
Equipment including holding tanks and all needs to be upgraded, the rest will fall into place through better education on being prepared.
WRB reply :
The misconception in regards to delayed motality and survivabilty was well stated by the club tournament TD. This was also a common statement in regards to the Falcon tournament when B.A.S.S. stated 158 big bass died. Dead bass defore they are released isn't delayed mortality, those bass died during the event, not later after they were released.
Consider that during the average summer tournament 28%* of the bass thought to be healthy died of delayed mortality. The bass looked good and swam away, then died. Most of these bass don't float on the surface, some do and are usaully eaten by birds or turtles before they can be detected by other fisherman.
Most large reseviors can handle the harvest rates of both weekend fisherman catching bass for the table and tournament bass fisherman lost through delayed mortality. However during the pre spawn, spawn and post spawn months when big bass are grouped together and catchable, overharvesting or high motality rates can be very detrimantal to the bass population.
WRB
*study by Gene Gilliland, biologist OK.
Lane reply :
THREE fish limit is the only RESPONSIBLE thing to do, and it is supported by EVERYONE that we have talked to that depends upon
Falcon Lake for their livelihood. Allowing the pros to retain five fish
with FULL use of both livewells is an option that should be considered.
They can have observers, just like the PAA events. NO CO-ANGLER!
We will FIGHT to make sure that Falcon Lake remains a QUALITY FISHERY!!!!
Matt, I have to ask you this question. Have you ever been down to Falcon???
Upnorth reply :
FLW has and does weigh 5 bass limits in clear tanks of water at select events. Not only is it better for the fish, the fans seem to like it too.
FishinDaddy reply :
WRB wrote "Consider that during the average summer tournament 28%* of the bass thought to be healthy died of delayed mortality. The bass looked good and swam away, then died. Most of these bass don't float on the surface, some do and are usaully eaten by birds or turtles before they can be detected by other fisherman."
If they don't float and were not seen by other fisherman, then how accurate is the "28%" number? Just a question.
Reduce tournament limits....That can be done by any repsonsible tournament promoter.
Reduce the length of the tournament day, or split it into 2 weigh ins, morning and afternoon. Again the promoter can do this now.
Increase the penalty for dead fish. This will solve most of the dead fish by focusing the angler's attention on live fish and not more fish.
WRB reply :
QuoteWRB wrote "Consider that during the average summer tournament 28%* of the bass thought to be healthy died of delayed mortality. The bass looked good and swam away, then died. Most of these bass don't float on the surface, some do and are usaully eaten by birds or turtles before they can be detected by other fisherman."If they don't float and were not seen by other fisherman, then how accurate is the "28%" number? Just a question.
Reduce tournament limits....That can be done by any repsonsible tournament promoter.
Reduce the length of the tournament day, or split it into 2 weigh ins, morning and afternoon. Again the promoter can do this now.
Increase the penalty for dead fish. This will solve most of the dead fish by focusing the angler's attention on live fish and not more fish.
* Gene Gilliland article;
http://www.State.tn.us/twra/fish/Reservoir/blackbass/livebass2.pdf
WRB
reelnmn reply :
I'm still in favor of the 5 bag limits.
One recommendation I have is to have completely separate weigh-ins for boaters/coanglers the first two days. The non-boaters don't get any press time to promote sponsors or tell how there day went, and cutting them out of the on-stage portion would reduce the weigh-in time by half. On the final day for co-anglers, they would weigh-in on the big stage.
I think what we all lack is education. We should all have an associate's degree in fish care regardless if we are tournament fishermen or the weekend angler. IMO, fish care is dependent on he said, she said. We deserve and should demand scientific answers.
Matt Fly reply :
Lane, were are all these pictures that haven't hit the internet of dead fish after the tourney. ??????
Lane have you seen the City Councilmen out on the Lakes actually fishing? Yet you quoted them numerous times. Where did they get their info? From the same blog writers? Locals who in every other instance would share those pictures. None surfaced We have too many guys down there for Bass Champs and they haven't noticed the delayed floaters or reported them on the TFF.
Tackle owner Blog, is just what it is. No disrespect to them either, but most of their info comes from fishermen as well.
And we know how numbers can get over inflated. You weren't there, and you and I both have heard accounts from observers and cameramen in the boats. I'm not in the minority when it comes to Texans as you saw on how you got attacked on the TFF for this same reasoning.
Cameramen said pros dropped their fish in the wells and never looked back. You say its all co boaters. Pros are Pros. LOL we see drama and boat handling issues every event, and the pro's are pros, surprised you don't blame the co0boater for Swindle being on pad through the crowds. LOL
We can go on. Again, this is to help aide in the solution. I see fault from everyone.
AGain, its a sad event when you loose one fish in my book.
Its of my Ill opinion that ya'll can name drop all you want and what you have is a bunch of blog with no hard numbers.
Where ya'll there? Or relying on others stories. CAuse the stories on the other forum were met with nasty comments.
All these floaters that never floated due to turtles and birds, since they didn't float, how do you know the numbers?
This is the dog chasing his tail.
I have stated numerous times, I appreciate your business and the product that you provide for us.
I don't want to beat the horse to death!!!! United we stand, divided we fall!!!
Lane reply :
Matt, Out of respect you have not answered my question, so I will repeat it. Have you ever been down to Falcon???
You are right I was not there, but we have assisted various tournaments down at Falcon, and we KNOW the fishery!
Sure there is plenty of blame to go around, but when it is all
said and done it is the RESONSIBILBITY of the tournament
organizations to make sure that anglers are educated and
tournaments are conducted with respect for the fishery FIRST!
BTW, John from Falcon Lake Tackle WAS THERE as well as MANY
other anglers from the Zapata area. Of course a picture is worth
a thousand words. Would you like to see the pictures Matt?
Matt Fly reply :
I'm tired of beating the same dead horse to death.
You have blog comments for support, the birds and turtles cleaned the mess up convienently. Where is the 3000-5000lbs of dead fish?
All these fish that needed to be fizzed, just sank all at once after they no longer could swim down on there own. How convienent and how fishy. And the birds just swallowed up all those giant bass.
Human nature and TFFers that were down there with cameras said they didn't see the same things as you report, and your source is blog at best, I mean you didn't witness it either. And your tackle store owner didn't get on the water either, he said reported. Thats blog at its best.
PS, Dad coached in south Texas in the 60's, I began bassing on Amistad in 6o's, so yes, its been awhile, but I have been to Falcon when I was younger.
Why has OH Ivey's fishing suffered? She was kicking out great numbers, was supposed to be the next Fork of west Texas.
Can't blame BASS for that downfall, must be the meathunters then!!!
She was better at that time than Falcon, Amistad, and Choke Canyon.
People blame BASS and the pressure its received since they came to Amistad. Funny, no one talks about the dropping water level on Amistad. When these lakes that were on average 60 ft low, those sacks didn't show up consistently. You were lucky to have 20 sacks over 20 lbs with a 200 boat field. Facts are in the tournament results, not some blog writers column.
And don't most of the experts say, "lakes that are down make for easier fishing due to skinny water?" Apparently not! Results speak for themselves. Rareity to see 30 lb sacks until the rains, and the gill netters have been on Amistad and Falcon since it opened.
And then the experts say what a gill net will catch and won't. The same Mexican fishermen who use coke bottles and cans for fishing tackle. So imagine what an old makeshift gill net would look like, but never mind, the expert on here said bass don't get caught enough to make a difference. How many Mexicans on the river have you encountered? I grew up on the Rio Grande.
Now that levels have dropped since 2004, its the meat hunters fault on Amistad. Can't totally blame BASS on this one cause their was no fish kill. So for that decline, its meat hunters fault!
Someone is always pointing a finger. TPWD takes into account for harvesting, yet, the blog is saying due to BASS, meat hunter are making the trip to Amistad in persuit of bass fillets.
Most real meat hunters fish for crappie and cats, and don't need to travel that far to seek meat, specially a bass fillet.
Sorry, when a fish can't dive due to its bladder, they just don't sink or disappear overnight. Specially when they can't sink due to gas in their bladders.
I don't dispute making changes. I don't have to agree with all that is said either.
If this were a trial, all you have is hearsay! And last time I checked, you aren't guilty off of hearsay and blog!
Argue that all you want. Not one shread of evidence is shown, just blog writers hearsay.
Matt Fly reply :
By the way, the BASS Federation tournament on Falcon has decided to go with 3 fish limit.
Which don't hurt my feelings.
Matt
flechero reply :
QuoteWould you like to see the pictures Matt?
I would, if you don't mind posting them.
Thanks
Lane reply :
Flechero,
Please send me a PM next week, after I return from Falcon. I DO NOT
want to POST them all over the internet for obvious reasons, even though I have been asked to. I myself have not seen them yet, I will see them tomorrow.
FishinDaddy reply :
I would like to see these pictures as well.
FD
FishinDaddy reply :
WRB,
I still could not find the 28% number. The studies were conducted between 10 and 15 years ago. I would say that "responsible" tournament fisherman are much better educated on this matter and these conclusions are no longer accurate, if they ever were.
That being said, the second and third pages were full of useful information, most of which I have seen in practice at the tournaments out of Camp Mack that I fish. Maybe we just do a better job of fish management in Florida because our highly pressure lakes require us to.
guest reply :
QuoteWRB,I still could not find the 28% number. The studies were conducted between 10 and 15 years ago. I would say that "responsible" tournament fisherman are much better educated on this matter and these conclusions are no longer accurate, if they ever were.
That being said, the second and third pages were full of useful information, most of which I have seen in practice at the tournaments out of Camp Mack that I fish. Maybe we just do a better job of fish management in Florida because our highly pressure lakes require us to.
I think thats his deduction, the article is where the idea came from. There is an entry for a 1999 Delayed mortality at Fork of 38 %, no proff just numbers
I am with Matt, a lot of theories and conjecture without any concrete proff or pics I don't care to fish for $ but a lot of my friends do, and this is a hot topic. I was upset watching the last 2 classic weigh ins and the fireworks and weigh in away from the body of water. It is too bad that ESPN didn't buy Ray Scotts sensibilities along with BASS itself!
Matt Fly reply :
I'm gonna put this in forum terms. As some have stated, it was the co boaters who killed most of their catch.
Pros are Pros!!!
Senko 77, Ryan Lamb is a BFL Co boater, and I have only seen big fish picutres, but I have alot of faith in his abiltiy. I'm not gonna point or assume the guys like Ryan are at fault.
Some solutions are to get rid of the co-boater.
Is that really a solution? You can say that it was BASS problem, not FLW, but facts show both trails mirror each other. And it could effect both trails, and hopefully, FLW will learn some from this as well, and maybe they are ahead of BASS and BASS should take some notes from them.
One thing that is constant. The numbers are sheer guesses, because none of them are close to each other. Bloggers range from 15% to 66% So what will be the final guess with all the birds and turtles cleaning the mess up, and all the fish that "NEVER FLOATED" up to be counted.
Hookem
Dogooder reply :
If you want a good guide to fish care, look up the "Keeping Bass Alive" handbook from BASS. It was written by two of the most respected fisheries biologists in the US who do a lot of work with largemouth bass mortality in tournaments.
Also, there are numerous recent articles out there that give numbers on delayed or post-release mortality. As a fisheries scientist, I recently did some research on the very topic, and it is very surprising and alarming how high delayed mortality can be. Just because you can't see it, doesn't mean it isn't happening.
flechero reply :
Do any of you remember the Lake Fork "Under" Tournaments they had, it was many years ago? Where you only weighed fish under the slot and the catch was kept as a harvest tool. If memory serves me correctly, the fish were donated to a local Church or charity to be cleaned and distributed to needy families.
I'd love to see the pro tournament's "keeper" redefined to something in the preferred harvest range (as defined by biologists) and then have the daily catch, filleted and given to a local homes, shelters, food pantry, etc. That helps rid a lake of the fish it needs to get rid of for balance and also serves the local communities in which the tournaments are held. Perhaps a mix of paper tournaments and meat tournaments, depending on the lake and local charitable needs.??
If the delayed mortality numbers are correct, and I'm a little skeptical of some of them, but for the sake of discussion if they are correct, I think the whole tournament concept needs to be modified/changed. Also if the delayed mortality numbers are really so high, doesn't that suggest the C & R is only effective if the release is done immediately? Which would also be good reason to change formats.
just thinking out loud...
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