Was I in the wrong as a Coangler? 2024
Chance_Taker4 reply :
I had an tournament this weekend where I fished as a coangler. At one point mid day my boater decides to cruise do this canal was about 50 feet wide. He puts down the trolling motor and starts cruising down the shoreline. He tells me that he is fishing the right side of the canal then once we get to the end turn around and fish the other side. I noticed at or position I could easily flip to the other shoreline that my boater wasn't fishing and that shoreline had more cover and was shadier. I decided to fish that side while he fished the right side then once we get to the end I would fish the other side and vise versa. Everything seemed ok until I landed to decent fish during the initial pass. After I put the second fish in the livewell my boater said that I shouldn't be fishing that shoreline because the boater gets first shot unfished waters and I new his plans. I apologized and went back to fishing the same side he was fishing. I am a veteran when it comes to fishing as coangler and normally have no problems with my boaters. I have done exactly what I did in the past on this particular lake without any animosity from the boater. I try to allow boaters to get first cast to all targets and find a target that does not interfere with them. I thought the opposite shoreline was fair game for me since he was focusing on the other side. Was I wrong to do that?
J Francho reply :
Meh, that's a boater call. I think he was being petty because you caught fish. You apologized, and adjusted. You did everything right from that point on. Should be water under the bridge. Next time, you'll remember to ask. Boaters might have differing ideas about what is "unfished" waters. These situations are the exact reason I only fish team events.
CarolinaBassN reply :
Have fished as a co-angler for many years, I have to agree with the boater on this one. He clearly told you he was planning on turning around and fishing the other side. By you flipping to the other side, you were essentially fishing in front of him. It was just water he hadn't got to yet. Ive made this same mistake myself while fishing boat slips. Boater was throwing a buzzbait between slips so I casted to the slips on the other side. He said you cant do that, Ill be hitting those next. Lesson learned. I have found over the years its best to just ask the boater up front and get clear expectations rather than take anything for granted.
Team9nine reply :
Where in the rules does it say the boater gets first shot at all waters? As long as you're not throwing ahead of or in front of him, you are fine in my opinion. It's a narrow space and he got to pick what side he wanted to throw to. If he moved slow enough, he could have fished both sides as he moved along. I would have kept fishing, limited out on his butt from the back deck and then sat down and ate lunch ????
Catt reply :
I gotta agree with @Team9nine ????
flatcreek reply :
On 7/2/2018 at 11:50 PM, Catt said:I gotta agree with @Team9nine ????
This guy is just a water hog. Like fishing in a torture chamber..
Chance_Taker4 reply :
On 7/2/2018 at 11:43 PM, Team9nine said:Where in the rules does it say the boater gets first shot at all waters? As long as you're not throwing ahead of or in front of him, you are fine in my opinion. It's a narrow space and he got to pick what side he wanted to throw to. If he moved slow enough, he could have fished both sides as he moved along. I would have kept fishing, limited out on his butt from the back deck and then sat down and ate lunch ????
That was my thought exactly. I figured that since he essentially passed the spots they were free game to me.
NittyGrittyBoy reply :
Your boater was being petty wanting all the fresh water. Tell him to go cry about it
ohboyitsrobby reply :
I would've did the same thing you did. It's a tournament you were trying to win. You weren't casting over or around him.
NHBull reply :
As a boater, I believe you had every right to throw as you did, as long as it wasn't in front of him....
Chance_Taker4 reply :
Just to be clear I was not physically casting in front of him. He said since I knew his plan was to catch that shoreline on the way out I shouldn't have done it. There was no argument and he wasn't really rude about it. I just felt like it was free game since it was castable and he wasn't targeting that area at that moment.
Logan S reply :
He told you his plan, what you did was effectively the same as casting in front of him -- You hit a target he planned to hit. Sorry, gotta side with boater here. There's some grey area in that he could have told you more specifically, but then again you also could have asked him first...
He could have avoided this by fishing both sides at once on the way in...But then he might have been labeled as a 'backseater' ???? No-win situation for him.
Chance_Taker4 reply :
On 7/3/2018 at 1:05 AM, Logan S said:He told you his plan, what you did was effectively the same as casting in front of him -- You hit a target he planned to hit. Sorry, gotta side with boater here. There's some grey area in that he could have told you more specifically, but then again you also could have asked him first...
He could have avoided this by fishing both sides at once on the way in...But then he might have been labeled as a 'backseater' ???? No-win situation for him.
Not arguing and not being confrontational but essentially that means hypothetically if a boater were to swing on a fish and miss then proceeded to tell the coangler I'm going to move down to another dock and come back to this one later once the fish comes back and settles down the coangler shouldn't fire into that spot once the boater passes it and it is in the co's zone?
Ratherbfishing reply :
Awww!!! Did poor widdle boater not get his way?!!! Unless there are established rules that divide the starboard and port side of the boat (as well as the front and the back), I think Mr. boater is demonstrating what I consider "bad form."
Troy85 reply :
On 7/3/2018 at 1:17 AM, Chance_Taker4 said:Not arguing and not being confrontational but essentially that means hypothetically if a boater were to swing on a fish and miss then proceeded to tell the coangler I'm going to move down to another dock and come back to this one later once the fish comes back and settles down the coangler shouldn't fire into that spot once the boater passes it and it is in the co's zone?
I agree with you.
Sometimes I'll fish a a shoreline from one direction, then turn around and fish it again from the opposite direction. Based on his rule, If i were to do that with a co-angler in the back, the co-angler fishing behind me on the first pass, would be fishing in front of me for the second pass. Of course this is an exaggerated example, and could never be enforced, but imo the logic is the same.
IMO, as long as your aren't physically casting in front of him, and blocking his ability to cast without crossing your line, I don't see an issue.
This is why I only do Team tournaments.
Logan S reply :
On 7/3/2018 at 1:17 AM, Chance_Taker4 said:Not arguing and not being confrontational but essentially that means hypothetically if a boater were to swing on a fish and miss then proceeded to tell the coangler I'm going to move down to another dock and come back to this one later once the fish comes back and settles down the coangler shouldn't fire into that spot once the boater passes it and it is in the co's zone?
I've actually done that...Asked my co-angler to please not mess with a fish that I missed or am coming back to for whatever reason (like a bedding fish). Flame-on ????. None had issues with it BTW...
You asked a question and I answered, sorry you don't like my take on it.
CroakHunter reply :
I agree with both of you. I can see why he said something to you about it and I can also see why you thought you were in the clear. But as long as you guys didn't have any confrontation and got on the same page then, no harm no foul. Lesson learned from both of you
WRB reply :
I don't like any partner to cast the opposite side of my boat because it's distracting and makes it difficult for good boat positioning, plus don't like lure flying past my ear!
Back seater's setting in the back seat, not sharing the front, should't cast forward of the front seater, it's simply good sportsmanship and common sense.
Tom
Chance_Taker4 reply :
On 7/3/2018 at 1:49 AM, Logan S said:I've actually done that...Asked my co-angler to please not mess with a fish that I missed or am coming back to for whatever reason (like a bedding fish). Flame-on ????. None had issues with it BTW...
You asked a question and I answered, sorry you don't like my take on it.
I am in no way flaming you. I wanted everyone's perspective on this situation. However as being a boater and coangler at different times I have the opportunity to be in both shoes. While growing in my competitive career I was taught and still practice no matter where I am in the boat, once a target passes the center counsel it is fair game for the co. As a boater if I miss an opportunity to hit a target and it is within coangler guidelines (Counsel to motor) and he fires in and pulls out a kicker I will congratulate him and chalk it up to I need to be more observant and have better awareness. If I miss on a hookset again the co has the right to that water once it comes into his "window".
Logan S reply :
I don't worry about console-lines or windows...I just tell my co's to use common sense and not skip ahead of me. This means they have the freedom to cast forward when we're moving or fan cast off the back if fishing open water. Seems to work out fine for me and the co-angler's I've drawn. Out of several hundred tournaments I can count the number of poor co-angler experiences on one hand.
The situation you described would fall into the 'skipping ahead' category IMO, especially since he told you he was planning on looping around. Like I said originally, he probably could have explained it better...Good news is that it seems to be water under the bridge and not a big deal on the water.
NittyGrittyBoy reply :
So because they own the boat they get first dibs on any water they come across?
Nah, you know what your getting into when you enter into a tournament with a co-angler. Get over yourself and quit crying because backseater caught fish
Logan S reply :
On 7/3/2018 at 5:04 AM, NittyGrittyBoy said:So because they own the boat they get first dibs on any water they come across?
Umm...Yea. Unless you're paying me to guide you or we're out fun fishing, I'm getting first crack at the water we fish in a draw tournament.
FWIW, I don't cry when my backseater catches fish, I enjoy it. I've already had 2 co's win the co-angler division of tournaments in my boat this year. I was happy for them and we had a great time on the water.
J Francho reply :
On 7/3/2018 at 5:04 AM, NittyGrittyBoy said:So because they own the boat they get first dibs on any water they come across?
Nah, you know what your getting into when you enter into a tournament with a co-angler. Get over yourself and quit crying because backseater caught fish
Mmm, yeah. You don't like it, buy your own boat. I'm all about the non boater getting into fish, and truly enjoy a day when we're both catching. It means I'm probably doing okay. But if you come on my boat with that cocky attitude, you'll be sure it's the last time. Again, this is why I don't do draw tournaments. An angler's attitude has little to do with boat ownership. Keep in mind, people talk. If someone gets a reputation for being difficult, they can get banned. Boater, non boater alike. I've seen it happen.
Oregon Native reply :
On 7/3/2018 at 8:30 PM, J Francho said:Mmm, yeah. You don't like it, buy your own boat. I'm all about the non boater getting into fish, and truly enjoy a day when we're both catching. It means I'm probably doing okay. But if you come on my boat with that cocky attitude, you'll be sure it's the last time. Again, this is why I don't do draw tournaments. An angler's attitude has little to do with boat ownership. Keep in mind, people talk. If someone gets a reputation for being difficult, they can get banned. Boater, non boater alike. I've seen it happen.
Like your attitude...too many hurt feelings now days. Sooo politically correct and so forth. Maybe that's why Elites went the way they did. Anyway..team stuff is good...fishing with one's self is good too. But then it's probably hard to grow the sport without the draw format.
J Francho reply :
On 7/3/2018 at 8:56 PM, Oregon Native said:But then it's probably hard to grow the sport without the draw format.
You're probably right. I just don't care for the format, and feel like it throws the non boater skills out the window. Fish a team format with me, and you'll likely be up front with me pitching to targets, and covering twice as much water.
Troy85 reply :
On 7/3/2018 at 9:03 PM, J Francho said:You're probably right. I just don't care for the format, and feel like it throws the non boater skills out the window. Fish a team format with me, and you'll likely be up front with me pitching to targets, and covering twice as much water.
Also, down here for some BASS nation tournaments they don't have enough "non-boaters" sign up. So they force boaters to fish with boaters. I would hate to be forced into being a non-boater after I had a practiced and found all my spots and patterns.
Team format is a much more enjoyable experience for me, especially since my brother is my partner.
RichF reply :
Yeah this is definitely an iffy situation. I've been on both decks so I know where both parties are coming from. If a boater asked me not to throw to a specific piece of cover (laydown, dock, etc) before he hit it, I would oblige without a second thought. If I was asked not to throw at an entire stretch of bank on the opposite side he/she was fishing...eh, I'd probably concede but I wouldn't be happy about it. When I go as a boater, I really only expect my co's not to cast in front of me. I don't think I'd ever ask someone to not fish an entire section of water on the opposite side of me. But I also agree with the sentiment of "if you don't like the boaters' rules...get your own boat."
Team is the way to go for sure.
MrFrost reply :
New to this whole thing, as I'm new to fishing, and don't own a boat. Are the fish weighed in separately? Maybe I'm not competitive enough, which makes my opinion probably useless, but I feel like if it's a combined weight just like team format, then I don't think I'd have a problem with the co-angler catching fish anywhere. Next to me, behind me, hell even in front of me as long as he's not interfering with my line! If we both win the same, then lets both do our best. But if it's a separate weight, then I kind of understand.
Maybe the boater could have included, "Please don't fish the other side" when explaining his intentions, because personally I could have taken his plan as him informing me that he won't be fishing the other side until the turnaround, and it could have been a green light to fish it until then.
Chance_Taker4 reply :
On 7/3/2018 at 11:12 PM, MrFrost said:New to this whole thing, as I'm new to fishing, and don't own a boat. Are the fish weighed in separately? Maybe I'm not competitive enough, which makes my opinion probably useless, but I feel like if it's a combined weight just like team format, then I don't think I'd have a problem with the co-angler catching fish anywhere. Next to me, behind me, hell even in front of me as long as he's not interfering with my line! If we both win the same, then lets both do our best. But if it's a separate weight, then I kind of understand.
Maybe the boater could have included, "Please don't fish the other side" when explaining his intentions, because personally I could have taken his plan as him informing me that he won't be fishing the other side until the turnaround, and it could have been a green light to fish it until then.
The boaters compete in their own tournament and vise versa. We are not competing against one another.
MrFrost reply :
On 7/3/2018 at 11:18 PM, Chance_Taker4 said:The boaters compete in their own tournament and vise versa. We are not competing against one another.
Ok, then if the boater and co-angler are weighed and competing separately, I can totally understand the reason the boater got mad. I can also see why the co-angler didn't think they were doing anything wrong. I guess going forward the co-angler could ask for clarification and the boater can be more specific about the waters he wants first action at.
flatcreek reply :
On 7/3/2018 at 10:37 PM, RichF said:Yeah this is definitely an iffy situation. I've been on both decks so I know where both parties are coming from. If a boater asked me not to throw to a specific piece of cover (laydown, dock, etc) before he hit it, I would oblige without a second thought. If I was asked not to throw at an entire stretch of bank on the opposite side he/she was fishing...eh, I'd probably concede but I wouldn't be happy about it. When I go as a boater, I really only expect my co's not to cast in front of me. I don't think I'd ever ask someone to not fish an entire section of water on the opposite side of me. But I also agree with the sentiment of "if you don't like the boaters' rules...get your own boat."
Team is the way to go for sure.
Exactly, flipping a lay down on the opposite side is not the same thing as whirling a Buzzbaits over someone's shoulder. team me for sure, iv'e had my fill of cut throat back boatersback boaters
Swbass15 reply :
@Chance_Taker4My only question is how did you turn out in the standings. Sounded like he handled your all’s lack of cummincation well during the fact, not being a total jerk and you were understanding of what he meant after clarification.
tander reply :
I am a boater and don't think you did anything wrong. If you are not interfering with his casting or throwing ahead of him, it is open water. You paid to your entry to fish and try to win just like the boater. Some boater get irritated when you outfish them.
ww2farmer reply :
I have never fished a boater/non-boater format tournament, only team and solo events, so take that into consideration with what I am about to say....
If he asked you to leave the opposite bank alone until he got to fish it, you should have left it alone. But I think your boater might have been an idiot if he didn't observe that bank with, as you said, more shade and cover on it, and fish that first. Instead he goes flat hatting through there fishing the sunny/less cover side.....yeah I think he might have been an idiot, but you still should have respected his wishes.
Sam reply :
No. You were correct.
As long as you do not throw to cut off the individual in the front of the boat you can fish anywhere.
The boater was totally incorrect and was PO'ed that you caught two and he did not because he is a bone head.
Story: Fishing Lake Gaston in a club tournament many years ago when my friend who was the boater asked me where I wanted to go. I told him by the islands and we went directly to my spot where I pulled in two nice keepers. He did not get a bite.
All of a sudden he said "that was enough at this place" and he pulled up the trolling motor, started the big motor, and we moved to another creek. To say the least I was stunned.
Then I realized that we were fishing against each other and I had three in the well to his two and he was upset. So if you fish tournaments as a nonboater you will encounter a number of guys who can't stand to see you be successful.
Just smile and keep on casting.
Good luck.
r83srock reply :
On 7/8/2018 at 4:16 PM, Sam said:No. You were correct.
As long as you do not throw to cut off the individual in the front of the boat you can fish anywhere.
The boater was totally incorrect and was PO'ed that you caught two and he did not because he is a bone head.
Story: Fishing Lake Gaston in a club tournament many years ago when my friend who was the boater asked me where I wanted to go. I told him by the islands and we went directly to my spot where I pulled in two nice keepers. He did not get a bite.
All of a sudden he said "that was enough at this place" and he pulled up the trolling motor, started the big motor, and we moved to another creek. To say the least I was stunned.
Then I realized that we were fishing against each other and I had three in the well to his two and he was upset. So if you fish tournaments as a nonboater you will encounter a number of guys who can't stand to see you be successful.
Just smile and keep on casting.
Good luck.
I’ve been both that jerk boater that got my eyes beat shut by the non boater, and didn’t handle it well, as well as the guy in the back tearing it up. I like being in the back, I feel like the underdog, and when I’m out fishing the boater it’s a pretty good feeling, haha. Honestly though, most people I’ve ever had in my boat have been great about not casting over the top of me, and likewise I don’t want to front end em’. It’s one of the reasons I don’t dock fish when I have someone with me. I don’t think you were in the wrong at all. I get that he isn’t necessarily thinking about your ability to succeed, but if he was worth a darn he should be. The boater has a lot invested, and being accommodating by providing the rig. It doesn’t give him the right to own the water. He can have whatever intentions he wants by coming back to a shoreline or spot, the fact is he should hit that spot first if it meant so much. What is he going to do if ya pulled into a stump field? “Only fish the small stumps, I get all the ones with the heavy root systems”....sounds kinda dumb.
Bluebasser86 reply :
I've fished as both, and in my mind, you paid your money just like the boater did, and he should get first shot at the fish, but if you could reach them he could too, so he already had a shot at them and decided not to cast at them. I understand he said he was going to come back down that side, but if he didn't want you to fish it he should have expressed that, and even then I still don't agree with him. If you were casting over his shoulder to hit the spots then I would understand, but what if you were fishing standing timber or a grass flat? Do you have to wait for him to cast in all directions before you're allowed to make a cast? It's way different to me than if your boater misses a fish and asks you not to cast back to that spot until he works it over, he's found that fish and deserves a chance to catch it just the same as the back-seater would in the same situation. It just sounds to me like he made a foolish decision to fish what was likely the less productive side first and then got upset when you caught a fish behind him.
Dirtyeggroll reply :
Was considering signing up to fish a fancy pay-to-enter, high stakes tournament as a co-angler. After reading this thread, not a d**n chance.
I am glad I am in a good club with boaters that love to see their co catch fish just about as much as they like to catch them themselves. In many cases a boater will tell me they left a specific spot that looks juicy just for me. Of course these are club tournaments where no money (except big bass) is on the table, so I can see how it could be considered different.
Occasionally, I'll get a little excited and make a bad cast (because of wind or odd angle) or a poor choice of cast position relative to the boaters in my club and cast in their lane. I always let them know if I do it by accident, and warn them beforehand and during so that if it continues to just 'front end' me.
Relative to the OP's situation, I don't think you were necessarily in the wrong. In a situation like yours, the boater had to make a choice to fish one side over the other. Part of the added challenge of being a boater, in my opinion, is indeed fishing against the co-angler. Every other boater has a co-angler, so its essentially 'fair'. Honestly, if you get angry because the co-angler hit the crevice you missed after passing it or that you didn't put the boat in position to hit, then don't fish co-angler tournaments. Some of these comments really make it sound like it is such a chore to have a coangler and that you are doing a service to the world. Seriously, where does this end. "I'm gonna fish the bank with a frog first, don't fish the outside weededge." or "I don't know how to skip under docks so I'm just going to fish the outside of them and you don't skip under them."
Yes you are providing the boat (and all of the cost associated with that) and probably paid some extra tournament fees but you already have a HUGE advantage being on the front of the boat (and yes I realize at sometimes it can be extra work and even a disadvantage, but the overall it is way toward advantage). With all that being said, I do realize it is quite a skill to position the boat so the co-angler can make some good casts.
The only instance where I would say that the boater had a right to be upset for the OP, would be if he was working extra hard to make sure the boat was in good position to make sure that you also had a good shot at the same bank he was fishing.
Logan S reply :
Lots of people throwing 'what-if' scenarios around here that obviously wouldn't apply to the situation originally described. Situations like this where 2 shorelines are within casting range (canal, cove, cut, etc) are tricky on the boater/co-angler dynamic for all the reasons you see in here...
Lots of people also assuming the boater picked the 'wrong side' and was dumb for doing so...Maybe that's true and maybe it's not, but I can easily think of several reasons someone might do that intentionally which would make perfect sense. Most obvious one is that he simply wanted to work that good side in a specific direction for whatever reason...But he fished his way in on the bad side before turning around for the sake of thoroughness. I do that or similar things fairly often, usually when the wind is blowing into the cove/cut/canal I'm targeting but sometimes for no other reason than personal preference on that particular spot.
TOXIC reply :
Read the tournament rules. Spells out what is allowed and what is not allowed. I would bet it doesn't address your situation though. If it's not in the rules then it's fair game. Common courtesy goes out the window in most tournaments that's why you fall back on the rules. If it was me in the back of the boat, the only written rule I have ever seen related to casting was that you are not allowed to throw in front of the drivers console. Basically, you get the back 1/2 of the circle with the boated getting the front 1/2. Now if he said he planned on fishing up one side of the canal and then down the other and would appreciate it if you both fished the same side, I would have complied just to keep the peace even though I don't think it would be a requirement.
Driftwoodlures reply :
You were right to fish the other side, if another boat had came up the opposite side and fished, he wouldn't have any say. As long as you didn't front end him, he needed to shut up and learn a few things from you. And yes, I'm a boater, never been a co-angler.
StratDude reply :
I own my boat.. Fish many opens and a trail with a regular partner. But our annual divisional qualifier is a draw tourney. We have a 6 man club, so 3 of us go as boaters and 3 as nonboaters. So I've tried for 10 years not to get that reputation of being a crappy boater... Our state federation rules require that a nonboater gets the front of the boat for half of the day. I've offered them the front in the morning half or the afternoon half. Never matters to me. I own the boat, but not the water or the fish. Nonboater has just as much right to the fish as I do, otherwise, he wouldn't be fishing. And the objective is to try to win or place high enough to advance. Just because someone is fishing from the back deck doesn't mean they aren't good enough to catch fish or win. The mentality of "nonboaters are only there to learn from the boater" is hilarious. And when someone says "buy your own boat if you want to fish the front" is just as bad. If your feelings get hurt because the guy in the back caught more than you did, find another hobby.
So for the OP's boater to claim that he had first chance at the water on the opposite side is ridiculous. He's fishing one side, so the nonboater can fish the other side without interfering with him. What if the boater missed casting at a tree? Does it get left for him to come back to it or does the nonboater have permission to cast to it?
He got a case of butthurt because Chance_Taker4 caught fish and he didn't. That's fishing. If I was a nonboater and a boater pulled that crap with me, I'd just tell him to take me back to the ramp because I'm sick and can't continue.. He can't continue the tourney without a nonboater in the boat with him. So guess what? He has to drop out for the remainder of the tourney... Never let a boater try to rule you, your fishing technique, or the water you're fishing. He only owns the boat.
Make your boater show you in writing any rule that you question...
LxVE Bassin reply :
I get a lot of boaters that tell me not to cast behind the boat but throw toward the front. There reason for not throwing behind the boat is because snags are more likely to happen and they don’t want to waste time retrieving snags.
islandbass reply :
On 7/2/2018 at 11:50 PM, Catt said:I gotta agree with @Team9nine ????
On 7/3/2018 at 12:15 AM, Chance_Taker4 said:That was my thought exactly. I figured that since he essentially passed the spots they were free game to me.
I agree. I mean what you supposed to do? Fish behind the boater at all times? Sure, okay. His boat his rules, I get that. If he said those exact words to me about fishing one side and then the other, I would have interpreted it precisely how you did.
Sounds like he was upset you caught “his” bass. Good for you. I hope he didn’t win the tournament.
i can see that there is no right or wrong in as much as the boat owner dictates and lays down the ground rules CLEARLY beforehand.
related Tournament Talk topic
previous topic
next topic
© 2024 - fishing.qciss.net. All Rights Reserved.