Back And Front Of The Boat Etiquette 2024

Zeeter reply :

I usually chip in for gas and a bit for general usage of the boat. I'll pull the boat out and back it down, though I will not launch or retrieve someone else's $30,000 boat. Heck, I may even buy the coffee and doughnuts. In general, I believe that is all that should be expected of the rider - other than having a general respect for his boat.

On the other hand, what is the etiquette for the boater? What can I ask of him? I have asked in the past that he be aware of front-ending me (sometimes they get excited and don't realize they're doing this), that he leaves me some fresh bank to fish when moving along, and that he let me know what he's using so I don't use the same thing. I've also asked that he remove the rear seat to give me more room. The first one - front ending - is probably an offense worthy of discipline by the club. Leaving me unspoiled bank is a bit of a grey area. However I have paid my entry fee and should be entitled to fish unspoiled water.

What if he isn't getting us into good fishing and I know where some hot spots are? If I tell him and he refuses to move, despite not being on the fish all day, is that a violation or is he just being rude?

I'm not suggesting all boaters are bad, or even most of them. I have had some great boaters who kept me on the fish and suggested ways to help me - even admonishing me (rightly so) for leaving my tacklebox open. A couple of times I had guys who had no idea where the fish were. They expected me to be their ****** for the day.

Far as I'm concerned, I split the finances including some extra for wear and tear on the boat. I help out wherever I can. I respect the boat. That is all that is required of me and I'll treat the boater like he treats me.

BrianinMD reply :

Speaking as a co-angler (switching to boater this year)....they are not your guide, he does not owe you fresh water to fish. Part of being a co is figuring out your shots and adjusting to what cast you are getting. Same goes for telling him about your "hot spot" and they do not move. It is there boat it is up to them to decide where to fish, some will take input some will not. It is their choice.

Now back boating you is a different story, I am sure each club will handle it differently. Some pro tours have rules where the boater will be dq'ed if they are caught doing it. It can be a huge point of argument with some people, careful in who and how you are bring it up. In my 6 years as a co I only had it done to me twice.

Glenn reply :

Lots of info here:

http://www.bassresource.com/fishing/fishing_partners.html

http://www.bassresource.com/fishing/tournament-etiquette.html

http://www.bassresource.com/fishing/co-angler_clinic.html

http://www.bassresource.com/fishing/back_seat_strategies.html

http://www.bassresource.com/fishing/back_seat.html

http://www.bassresource.com/fishing/backseat_fishing.html

Zeeter reply :

On 2/15/2017 at 3:57 AM, BrianinMD said:

Speaking as a co-angler (switching to boater this year)....they are not your guide, he does not owe you fresh water to fish. Part of being a co is figuring out your shots and adjusting to what cast you are getting.

I disagree with this. I've paid my entry fee. I've paid my club dues. I'm about to pay half the expenses for the trip. He will always be on better water than I am because he's driving. But that's where it stops for me. If he's fished out an area and then moves a few boat lengths up then I'm fishing water where he's either caught everything or spooked everything. Maybe throwing something different will help, but chances are he knows what he's doing and if there was a fish there he'd have done something about it.

Yet if he moves just a few couple more boat lengths up then I can get some fresh water. That's not too much to expect.

If this was a Pro and Amateur situation that would be one thing, but for the purposes of the local club tournament we have equal stakes. If he's putting me on used up water all day he's not getting his half of the expenses.

I don't expect this to happen, by the way. I expect that my boater and I will discuss strategy prior to the tournament and come to an agreement.

Edited February 15, 2017 by Zeeter
spelling

gimruis reply :

Offering to pay for expenses, buying coffee/doughnuts will go a long ways simply as a guest in someone else's boat. Often times its not the fuel burned by the outboard that can get expensive, but rather the fuel burned by the truck in order to haul the boat to the lake can be a lot. I always appreciate it when people offer to help pay for those kind of expenses whether you are fishing in competition or recreationally with a friend/relative.

WTnPuddleJumper reply :

In some of the clubs around my area the boater gets to fish his water for half the time, the non-boater the other half. I even think the non boater can even run the trolling motor during his turn. Of course the non boater is expected to pick up part of the expenses. You might mention that type of format at your next meeting and see what happens. I know it sucks when someone fronts the boat on you, but the only real way to solve that problem is to buy a boat. (which for some is easier said than done)

RichF reply :

Let's not forget that there is usually a hefty, monthly payment to own that boat on top of those other expenses. Splitting the boat fuel bill and picking up coffee and doughnuts are nice gestures, ones most boaters really appreciate, however, they really don't help all that much with the overall expense of a tournament day. When it comes down to it, the boater doesn't owe the co-angler anything. That obviously doesn't mean he can treat him like crap, it just means...he doesn't owe him anything extra on top of providing a platform (physical and metaphorical) on which to compete. If your club has rules that state, boater and co-angler both get a certain amount of time fishing the water they want, then the boater must abide by them, no ifs, ands, or buts. If not, you just have to adjust. Communication goes a long way but stating up front that you don't want to be front ended will likely offend your boater and lead to a miserable, awkward day on the water.

Like @BrianinMD, I started as a co-angler and have since moved up front. I know how tough it can be to fish from the back and fish used water. You gotta realize though, there are definitely more places to throw to than just the bank, behind your boater. I don't know how many times I've thrown into deeper water on the opposite side of the boat and caught really nice fish. I've also outfished my boaters on several occasions (same exact cover) just by throwing different baits. My point is, there are ways you can do well when you're a co-angler (fishing used water), you just have to adjust and think outside the box.

Logan S reply :

I'll give you my perspective as someone that's fished tournaments as a boater for over 15 years now....

Chipping in for gas/expenses/ramp fees is always appreciated. The $40 or so is really just a drop in the bucket compared to the total costs and effort put forth though. I don't see it as a fee for service, I simply see it as a good faith gesture and I appreciate the thought.

I don't mean this to be harsh, but there's not really any other way to put it...You aren't entitled to anything as a co-angler. I fish tournaments becasue I want to fish them, not to becasue I want to guide a co-angler around the lake. Having said that, I certainly don't go out of my way to make things any harder for the co-angler. On the flip side, I'm not really going to go out of my way to make things super easy on the co-angler either. I'm just going to fish my plan for the day. I'm friendly and I'll help my co-angler where I can, describe what we're fishing, describe how I'm catching them, etc. Sometimes the way I need to fish means the co-angler won't have the best angles or targets - That's not me 'front-ending' them, that's just the way it is. It doesn't happen all the time, but it does happen.

The bottom line is that it's a two-way street. It's not a free for all, I'll give the Co a fair chance to fish - But if he's going to sit back there and try to snipe everything out from under me, I can make it very hard for him to do that. The way I see it is that I can give you decent shots at stuff that I either fish or miss (every boater misses stuff, be observant) - OR - I can give you absolutely nothing if you want to play hardball with me. It will be the same for me either way, but I'd much prefer to do it the first way since it's more fun and I'm a friendly guy .

I've fished with a lot of Co's over the years and I'd like to think most of them enjoyed their time in my boat and maybe even learned a thing a two. I don't want this post to seem like boaters are doing some noble deed to be commended or that co-anglers are some kind of inconvenience...I just want it to be a little perspective from the front of the boat.

Zeeter reply :

The word entitled has been used twice here. I'm not expecting someone to be my guide on the water. At the same time, I didn't paid my dues, my entree fees, and a fair portion of the expenses to go on a cruise for a day.

I know the boater will always have the advantage. I'm not asking him to put me on the best water all day; I'm expecting him to try keeping me off of the bad water all day. Stuff happens and he wants to get into an area where I'm at a disadvantage. No problem - it's his boat.

This stuff about not being entitled to anything because I don't have a boat and he does smells more like boater elitism than anything else. It's great that you paid all that money for the boat, but you're fishing in a tournament where you know you have a rider. If you don't want to be considerate of your rider then you should have joined a boat-only club. Fact is, I have a boat. I simply joined a club that has too many boaters and not enough riders.

In the clubs I've been in, if the boater put the rider on bad water all day, front ended him, and generally prevented him from catching fish in the most productive manner for the situation then it would be a violation of the club's bylaws and he could face disciplinary action even if it wasn't intentional.

You do not have an obligation to tell your rider how to fish or what to fish, but if he's paid his entry fee just like you did then you do owe him a decent chance to catch fish. I never expect my boaters to go out of their way and give me spots first. That is the only entitlement that the boater is granted - he gets to fish the best water.

Again, I am not talking about a Pro having an Amateur on his boat. That is far different. And certainly if the rider is a complete jerk that makes things different, too. But this is a club. We're all supposed to be friends while we compete. Someday it may be your day to be a rider because there's too many boats and not enough riders. Do you want your boater to be completely indifferent to your plight? To keep the rider in bad water or not caring if he is in a position to catch anything is just bad sportsmanship.

Logan S reply :

The boater/co-angler system is not perfect...But it is what it is. It sounds like your group doesn't have separate divisions for boaters and co-anglers...I don't want to disparage whatever group you're with - But IMO that can really suck for the co-anglers and explains a lot about the differences in your posts versus mine. The trend has been clubs moving to the split divisions so the co-anglers aren't competing against the boaters. For the co-angler that means they are all on the same playing field in regards to the challenges of being in the back of the boat. It also makes it easier for the boater and co-angler cooperate without tension since they aren't competing against each other. Our club has been this way for the last 10 years or so and I see more and more clubs adopting this system. It mimics the "Pro/Am" format. If it's not a team event, this is the only fair format for the co-angler IMO.

I don't think any of the posts so far have been negatively slanted toward co-anglers..But I do think it can be a little difficult for a boater to put their perspective into words on a forum without someone thinking they are selfish or 'elitist'.

On 2/17/2017 at 7:03 AM, Zeeter said:

I'm not asking him to put me on the best water all day; I'm expecting him to try keeping me off of the bad water all day. Stuff happens and he wants to get into an area where I'm at a disadvantage. No problem - it's his boat

You do not have an obligation to tell your rider how to fish or what to fish, but if he's paid his entry fee just like you did then you do owe him a decent chance to catch fish. I never expect my boaters to go out of their way and give me spots first. That is the only entitlement that the boater is granted - he gets to fish the best water.

And certainly if the rider is a complete jerk that makes things different, too.

These statements you made are essentially exactly what I said in my post...Although they sort of contradict some of the stuff in your first couple posts.

On 2/17/2017 at 7:03 AM, Zeeter said:

The word entitled has been used twice here. I'm not expecting someone to be my guide on the water. At the same time, I didn't paid my dues, my entree fees, and a fair portion of the expenses to go on a cruise for a day.

On 2/15/2017 at 12:49 AM, Zeeter said:

However I have paid my entry fee and should be entitled to fish unspoiled water.

This is where it came from. This is also one of the statements that prompted the "I'm not a guide" response in my mind initially. I don't think any of the posts so far have indicated that the co-angler is simply along for a boat ride.

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Not trying to argue at all...It can be a tough topic since many times each side doesn't really know what it's like to be on the other side.

Edited February 17, 2017 by Logan S
edited for clarity

RichF reply :

When it comes down to it, you just gotta suck it up and deal with it if you want to fish tournaments. @Logan S said it best, the boater/co-angler format isn't perfect and there just isn't any way to make it so. Some boaters will go out of their way to make sure you have good water to fish, some won't give you much of anything, and some will just fish like you're not there. You're going to run into all those scenarios eventually.

On 2/17/2017 at 7:03 AM, Zeeter said:

If you don't want to be considerate of your rider then you should have joined a boat-only club

You could also find a different club. One where you can use your own boat or one with separate boater/co-angler divisions. Nothing that has been said here from the boater perspective could be construed as inconsiderate towards a co-angler.

clark9312 reply :

since you have a boat couldn't you fish by yourself as a boater? In every tourney ive fished in there are always a few guys out there by themselves.

clh121787 reply :

Tournament fishermen can be a little quirky. And some clubs/ club members in my area have come off down right arrogant. At this point I have no desire to fish tournaments. I'm opposite I love being on the lake to my self. And not see others. I also love fishing with others in my boat. And usually I'm hoping they catch more and bigger fish than I do. To answer the op when I invite someone to fish I ask them to pack light and meet me on time. That's it.

Catt reply :

Exactly the reasons I don't belong to a club or fish club tournaments!

The last draw tournament I fished as a co-angler was the 2001 B.A.S.S. Top 150 on Toledo Bend. The first day was canceled due to fog before the cancelation was given we were sitting around talking. My Pro asked Larry Nixon " with you level of experience on this lake what area would you fish?". Larry told him with the "amateur" you have in your back seat I'd listen to him. My Pro asked me if I know the lake, told him I've been prefishing south in Housen' & was on hawgs! The next morning we run so far north I took him I didn't have an Oklahoma license! He caught one fish & front ended me the whole time! Once back to Cypress Bend launch & with an hour left I convinced him to try a small cove with traps where he limited out.

Rant over

Picture on Larry Nixon & me prefishing, he ended up 4th!

Skeeter Dan reply :

My CO. Is my partner and Share the cost. Gas for truck and boat and Motel room. I will always try to put my boat in a angle so we both can fish the same spot. I will take his advice. For we are a team. Nobody is trying to out fish the other one. The club were in it's a 5 fish bag per boat. I love our clubs format . We have a lot fun.

Zeeter reply :

On 2/17/2017 at 8:27 AM, Logan S said:

On 2/15/2017 at 12:49 AM, Zeeter said:

However I have paid my entry fee and should be entitled to fish unspoiled water.

This is where it came from. This is also one of the statements that prompted the "I'm not a guide" response in my mind initially. I don't think any of the posts so far have indicated that the co-angler is simply along for a boat ride.

Yeah, I said entitled in one of my first posts. Poor choice of words on my part. Of course what I meant was that as a rider I shouldn't only be able to fish water that's already been completely fished over. I shouldn't have said entitled. And yes - I am talking about tournaments where the boater and rider each have an equal stake; no splitting of boater and rider rewards - just one pot.

I didn't mean to turn this into some p#ss#ing contest. My only thoughts were that all things being equal, the boater should be cognizant of the rider whenever possible. The rider is already at a disadvantage being in the back of the boat, so let's not make it even harder on him.

And it's not likely that anyone on here falls under the category of arrogant boater who couldn't care less if his rider caught anything. I'm sure we're all respectful club members who, while competitive, enjoy fishing with someone else.

Catt reply :

On 2/17/2017 at 9:31 PM, Skeeter Dan said:

My CO. Is my partner and Share the cost. Gas for truck and boat and Motel room. I will always try to put my boat in a angle so we both can fish the same spot. I will take his advice. For we are a team. Nobody is trying to out fish the other one. The club were in it's a 5 fish bag per boat. I love our clubs format . We have a lot fun.

That's what I fish, team tournaments!

I've never understood why 2 anglers who are supposedly friends do not understand the benefits of fishing as a "team".

RichF reply :

On 2/17/2017 at 10:49 PM, Zeeter said:

I didn't mean to turn this into some p#ss#ing contest.

That's not what has happened here. Anglers with experience on both sides are just sharing their opinions on the subject. There will always be a debate here. The only thing we can do is try and be as considerate and respectful towards each other as we can.

TheGreatOne reply :

On 2/17/2017 at 9:31 PM, Skeeter Dan said:

My CO. Is my partner and Share the cost. Gas for truck and boat and Motel room. I will always try to put my boat in a angle so we both can fish the same spot. I will take his advice. For we are a team. Nobody is trying to out fish the other one. The club were in it's a 5 fish bag per boat. I love our clubs format . We have a lot fun.

My club is the same way,and I love the format, I am wanting my boater to catch fish and he wants me to catch fish... We work together to bring in our five biggest bass of the day... If I draw a boater that has no knowledge of the water, me being a boater for 15 years, I will try and get us on something. But this way we are in it together, if I catch a 8 lber and she goes in the live well, my partner can say " well, we got us a biggun to bring in today!"... And I say"Yep we sure do!"... I like the format... If he catches all five and I blank or the total opposite happens, we are still splitting the pot!..??

J._Bricker reply :

I've gotta say I have enjoyed reading everyone's thoughts and viewpoints on this topic. At the end of the day it's just fishing and I believe we all want to be/get better at the various aspects of our sport.

In Zeeter's original post he mentioned "front-ending", which in my part of the Left Coast is referred to getting "back seated". Different venacular, but the same meaning and if it isn't intentional it's all part of "fishing". In my experience, sometimes the perception of it can be the contrasting styles and abilities between the front and back of the boat. If the person in the front of the boat is picking the bank apart, that style will definitely conflict with someone whose skill set and is set up to cover a lot of water and vise verse. Making the correct adjustments, while being aware of how and where the other person is being successful helps us all get better.

Regarding club tourneys, I believe everyone involved pays their monies to fish, but the boater assumes the greater investment in time and money. Pre-fishing before a tournament is an investment, as is the boat and tow vehicle, gas, two stroke oil (a gallon of Opti), insurance, launch fees, and other incidentals are things boat owners are aware of that some co-anglers take for granted. I personally don't think boaters and co-anglers should directly compete against one another, because this format favors the guy in the front of the boat. An unintended consequence of this is it may force a co-angler with a boat in the future to fish as a boater than remain a non-boater.

In the club I fish, boaters fish against boaters, non-boaters against non-boaters, and each boat is a team against the other boat's. The winning team concept is further emphasized in that team with the most weight also had to have caught the most fish (two limits) regardless if another boat had greater weight but fewer fish.

I didn't mean to get long winded, but I wanted to share my thoughts. I hope everyone has a great tournament season. JB

Catt reply :

My thoughts on team tournaments

How compatible are y'all?

What are your strengths? What are his?

What are y'all's weaknesses?

How y'all game plan strengths & weaknesses will determine how successful the team will be!

Y'all must fish together as a team not as two individuals out fishing!

When done in unison both anglers can cover water quickly & throughly, which allows for a greater opportunity to establish patterns faster!

I have a fishing partner who has teamed fished with me for 41yrs; our fishing style is almost identical which I believe is necessary to become a successful team. We trust each others judgments on the water so when one of us is “on” that one takes control of the boat and one of us is always “on”. When both of us are “on” you just donated your entry fee!

It would be difficult for a finesse fisherman and a power fisherman to be a team, it would be difficult for a topwater fisherman and a crank bait fisherman to be a team ect. What tends to happen with “opposites” is that team spends too much time going from one area to another and one technique to another.

gimruis reply :

As an innocent bystander and a non-tournament, non-club angler, I read this entire thread and it would appear to me that the solution may be to fish solo. Or like someone said, fish as a team. Sign up as a pair, not individually as "boaters" or "co-anglers." If the club or tournament only offers the option so sign up as a boater or co-angler, don't sign up. Again, I've never experienced either option personally, but maybe the best solution is to just avoid the problem altogether.

BrianinMD reply :

fishing as a co is not an issue if you do not go in with reasonable expectations. Take it as a learning experience and you will become a far better angler. You have to learn to adjust to the conditions you have, part of that is not fresh water. And there are plenty of fish to get caught from back there. Think of different angles to cast, different presentations. I learned more in one season doing this then 30 years of fishing before. You cannot think the boater is going to lower his opportunities just to make it easier on you. They are there to fish and do the best they can not to guide you.

Now if you are fishing a club where they boaters and coanglers are competing against each other and you do not split time in the front then you need to find a different club.

kroberts9 reply :

On 2/17/2017 at 9:31 PM, Skeeter Dan said:

My CO. Is my partner and Share the cost. Gas for truck and boat and Motel room. I will always try to put my boat in a angle so we both can fish the same spot. I will take his advice. For we are a team. Nobody is trying to out fish the other one. The club were in it's a 5 fish bag per boat. I love our clubs format . We have a lot fun.

I'm talking to guy working out details to be his CO right now and I love what your saying. I hope the club is a 5 fish per boat bag it will make for an easier outing.

my issues are in can come with some baggage, I fish a fare amount of rods and being a co-angler that can be aggravating. so I have to really cut back on that I hope we can pre-fish and work out a game plan and not just show up cold to the launch.

I plan on paying half or more for the gas and depending on the fee maybe some of my boaters. it's pretty cool for someone to let you on their boat especially if they don't know you.

WIGuide reply :

If you're having problems with how things are going, maybe you should look for a different club. The club I fish with still has boaters and non-boaters, but it's a team format. You fish for a 5 fish limit and you keep the same partner throughout the year, although there have been times we've swapped due to schedules. Keeping the limit at 5 allows anglers to fish alone if they want, or if their partner cannot make it to an event. It takes away all the issues you're experiencing because any fish caught counts for the team. There's no reason to front end you because if you haul a hog out of a piece of cover it benefits both of us.

The other type of club you might want to consider joining, is one that has two separate divisions; one for the co and one for the boater. Again, this will help to alleviate some of the issues because you don't have a direct competitor in your boat.

jhoffman reply :

On 2/17/2017 at 9:04 PM, Catt said:

Exactly the reasons I don't belong to a club or fish club tournaments!

Bingo, I left the club I was in because the club BS is just that BS. Im fishing tournaments to fish. I have zero desire to ever join another club.

NorthwestBasser reply :

We fish boaters and co anglers all in one pot in my club. So, everyman for himself. Except that aside from a couple guys, every man is a really good guy. No boaters are purposely trying to back seat us co anglers. We're out here to have FUN! Our biggest pot of the year, 1st place will get a check for $1000- 1300, the other 9 tournaments 1st place will grab 350- 600 bucks. So if you win you get a little money, which is awesome, but it's far from the reason we do this. As a co Angler, I will pay my share of gas, oil, and wear n' tear... help launch in the morning and trailer it when we are done. We have a half water rule, I get to choose where we fish half the day, he chooses the other half. I don't and won't take the front of the boat, these are expensive machines that don't belong to me. I want to win a tournament sure, but only one co angler in our clubs history has ever won a tourney. Co anglers in my club fish to learn, to get off the bank or out of the kayak, and to fish new lakes and rivers. Don't enter a tournament as a co Angler and expect to win or be mad if you dont. It wasn't your boaters fault. Now, we do have one element that helps the boaters to be encouraged to give us "virgin" water, we have a side pot for team weight. Heaviest boat wins. So a boater can place first, catch big fish of the day, and win the team pot. Hasnt happened that way yet, but someone is bound to get lucky one of these weekends!

Fishin' Fool reply :

On 2/17/2017 at 8:27 AM, Logan S said:

The boater/co-angler system is not perfect...But it is what it is. It sounds like your group doesn't have separate divisions for boaters and co-anglers...I don't want to disparage whatever group you're with - But IMO that can really suck for the co-anglers and explains a lot about the differences in your posts versus mine. The trend has been clubs moving to the split divisions so the co-anglers aren't competing against the boaters. For the co-angler that means they are all on the same playing field in regards to the challenges of being in the back of the boat. It also makes it easier for the boater and co-angler cooperate without tension since they aren't competing against each other. Our club has been this way for the last 10 years or so and I see more and more clubs adopting this system. It mimics the "Pro/Am" format. If it's not a team event, this is the only fair format for the co-angler IMO.

I don't think any of the posts so far have been negatively slanted toward co-anglers..But I do think it can be a little difficult for a boater to put their perspective into words on a forum without someone thinking they are selfish or 'elitist'.

These statements you made are essentially exactly what I said in my post...Although they sort of contradict some of the stuff in your first couple posts.

This is where it came from. This is also one of the statements that prompted the "I'm not a guide" response in my mind initially. I don't think any of the posts so far have indicated that the co-angler is simply along for a boat ride.

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Not trying to argue at all...It can be a tough topic since many times each side doesn't really know what it's like to be on the other side.

Logan,

I'm interested in hearing how your club runs using boaters versus boaters and co-anglers versus co-anglers. We could post on here or private message or I'll give you my email address. Maybe I could get you to email me a copy of your club rules. I'm really interested in hearing the details of how you guys make it work from tournament points to payouts. Thanks in advance.

Logan S reply :

On 3/6/2017 at 2:28 AM, Fishin' Fool said:

Logan,

I'm interested in hearing how your club runs using boaters versus boaters and co-anglers versus co-anglers. We could post on here or private message or I'll give you my email address. I'm really interested in hearing the details of how you guys make it work from tournament points to payouts. Thanks in advance.

It's pretty simple...Both divisions are simply separated - completely. Boaters are only competing against the other boaters and co's are only competing against the other co's. Technically speaking, all our tournaments are actually two separate tournaments - The boater tournament and the co-angler tournament. Everyone is obviously bound by the same club rules, times, etc...

Money/Placement wise, it's two separate pots. All the boater's fees are in the boater pot and all the co's fees are in the co-angler pot. Payouts are for the top 3 plus lunker in each division...So we'll have checks for the top 3 boaters plus lunker from the boater pot only and then checks for the top 3 co-anglers plus lunker from the co-angler pot only. Payouts aren't always the same since there can be more boaters than co's signed up, making the total boater pot bigger.

For AOY, it's separated the same way...each division awards points based on placement and at the end of the year we have awards for Boater AOY and Co-Angler AOY.

Pairings are done by random draw the week before the tournament. If there are more boaters than co's signed up, there will simply be boaters fishing alone. If there are more co's than boaters, we have a waiting list with a priority based on payments date/time (co's that don't get in are refunded so that money isn't in the co-angler pot). For some of the further away tournaments we allow boaters/co's to choose partners if they wish to make travel/lodging logistics easier (all the same rules apply).

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I would also like to point to out that team events are a completely different animal...Comparing a team club/event to boater/co (or combined) club/event is an apples vs oranges comparison.

Fishin' Fool reply :

On 3/6/2017 at 3:19 AM, Logan S said:

It's pretty simple...Both divisions are simply separated - completely. Boaters are only competing against the other boaters and co's are only competing against the other co's. Technically speaking, all our tournaments are actually two separate tournaments - The boater tournament and the co-angler tournament. Everyone is obviously bound by the same club rules, times, etc...

Money/Placement wise, it's two separate pots. All the boater's fees are in the boater pot and all the co's fees are in the co-angler pot. Payouts are for the top 3 plus lunker in each division...So we'll have checks for the top 3 boaters plus lunker from the boater pot only and then checks for the top 3 co-anglers plus lunker from the co-angler pot only. Payouts aren't always the same since there can be more boaters than co's signed up, making the total boater pot bigger.

For AOY, it's separated the same way...each division awards points based on placement and at the end of the year we have awards for Boater AOY and Co-Angler AOY.

Pairings are done by random draw the week before the tournament. If there are more boaters than co's signed up, there will simply be boaters fishing alone. If there are more co's than boaters, we have a waiting list with a priority based on payments date/time (co's that don't get in are refunded so that money isn't in the co-angler pot). For some of the further away tournaments we allow boaters/co's to choose partners if they wish to make travel/lodging logistics easier (all the same rules apply).

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I would also like to point to out that team events are a completely different animal...Comparing a team club/event to boater/co (or combined) club/event is an apples vs oranges comparison.

Thank you for this information. Is there ever a situation where a boater fishes the tournament as a co-angler (boat broke down, small boat on big water) and how is that handled regarding points? Or do they just not fish the event?

Logan S reply :

On 3/6/2017 at 3:24 AM, Fishin' Fool said:

Thank you for this information. Is there ever a situation where a boater fishes the tournament as a co-angler (boat broke down, small boat on big water) and how is that handled regarding points? Or do they just not fish the event?

I knew I'd forget something ...

The way it works is that if you're a boater, you're a boater no matter what...So even if I fish in the back of a boat for whatever reason, I'm still in the boater division competing against the boaters for that event and for AOY points and my fee is still in the boater pot.

Co-anglers can't fish as a boater without completely jumping into the boater division...That rarely is an issue though, but has come up when a co-angler buys a boat mid-season. They either finish out the season as a co-angler, or completely convert for the rest of the season...Things get tricky for AOY points if a co switches to boater, but we do have rule in place for it - No need to hash it out here though.

Feel free to shoot me a PM if you want to get into the finer details of everything...I'm happy to talk about it but don't want to distract from the original topic any further, although it is probably at least a little helpful/interesting to others .

Catt reply :

@Logan S what stops the boater from front ending the co-angler?

In our Team Tournaments each angler has to at least boat one of the 5 bass & some they both have to boat 2 of the 5 with the 5th going to whom ever.

Fishin' Fool reply :

On 3/6/2017 at 7:07 AM, Catt said:

@Logan S what stops the boater from front ending the co-angler?

In our Team Tournaments each angler has to at least boat one of the 5 bass & some they both have to boat 2 of the 5 with the 5th going to whom ever.

I'm not going to say it doesn't happen but if the boater is not competing against the co-angler I would think he's more apt to work with his co.

RoLo reply :

As long as I've been fishing from a boat (forever), I still can't buy into the notion

of "New Water" vs "Used Water". First off, it's always a good idea for anglers in the same boat

to fish different lures and in different depth zones. Of course, when a certain lure or depth zone

dominates the action, then all anglers should concentrate on that pattern.

But even when all hands are working the same lure in the same depth zone,

there are a still a host of variables that separate one angler from the next (NO, not color).

For starters, suppose the 'new-water' angler retrieves his lure a smidgen outside the strike window,

but the 'used-water' angler retrieves his lure right down-the-pipe. In heavy cover and in dingy water,
we're only talking about inches folks. Suppose the 'new-water' angler retrieves his lure a tad too fast

for the present mood of the bass, but the 'used-water' angler offers the same lure at the same depth,

but uses a different speed or action. Even when all things are equal, who hasn't seen instances

when the first cast seems to wake up a bass, and the second cast elicits an explosion?

Among many of my stale jokes, I'll often say to my wife: "You're wasting your time,

I already casted over there". If I got a dollar every time she rubbed that joke in my nose,

I'd never have to pay another launch fee.

Roger

kroberts9 reply :

On 3/6/2017 at 8:44 AM, RoLo said:

As long as I've been fishing from a boat (forever), I still can't buy into the notion of "New Water" & "Used Water".

First off, it's always a good idea for different anglers to fish different lures and in different depth zones.

Of course, when a certain lure or depth zone dominates the action, then all anglers should concentrate on that pattern.

But even when all hands are working the same lure, in the same depth zone, there are a still a host of variables

that separate one angler from the next.

For starters, suppose the 'new-water' angler retrieves his lure a smidgen outside the strike window, but the used-water angler retrieves his lure right down the pipe. In heavy cover and in dingy water, we're only talking about inches!

Suppose the new-water angler retrieves his lure a tad too fast for the present mood of the bass, but the used-water angler

offers the same lure at the same depth, but uses a different speed and action. Even when all things equal,

who hasn't seen instances when the first cast seems to wake up a bass, and the second cast elicits an explosion?

Among many of my stale jokes, I'll often say to my wife: "You're wasting your time, I just made a cast over there".

If I had a dollar every time she rubbed that joke in my nose, I'd never have to pay a launch fee again

Roger

I agree with this statement. Fish do move and not every angler is crelated equal great insight

RoLo reply :

On 3/6/2017 at 8:49 AM, kroberts9 said:

I agree with this statement. Fish do move and not every angler is crelated equal great insight

You're correct.

I never even addressed bass mobility (bass scooting away from under the hull)

which further convolutes the snapshot image implied by 'new water' vs. 'used water'.

Logan S reply :

On 3/6/2017 at 7:07 AM, Catt said:

@Logan S what stops the boater from front ending the co-angler?

Speaking specifically about rules? Nothing. Now that doesn't mean that it happens or we 'allow' it to happen...We just don't tell people what they can or can't do with their own boats, outside of obvious/mandatory safety rules.

The one thing to be said about a division club like ours is that all the Co-anglers are in the same boat (pun intended) when it comes the challenges and disadvantages of being in the back. They also don't need to worry about competing with their boater or any of the other boaters.

IMO the whole subject of back-seating or front-ending or whatever you want to call is overblown on internet forums....It comes up waaaaaaaaay more often on forums online than it ever does in real life. There are also some people out there that just won't ever be happy with anything...And they are often the ones more likely to get negative online or otherwise. I won't go into story time here...But I've had a few people over the years that would fall into this category. All you can do is just shake your head while thinking, "Really, dude?", in your head and keep on with your plan for the day.

On 3/6/2017 at 7:07 AM, Catt said:

In our Team Tournaments each angler has to at least boat one of the 5 bass & some they both have to boat 2 of the 5 with the 5th going to whom ever.

A team tournament, trail, or club is a completely different dynamic than a boater/co-angler or other non-team tournament, trail, or club. Some people prefer one while other people prefer the other. I totally get what you're saying, but it's an apples vs oranges comparison IMO. I'm not into team tournaments - I do fish them here and there - but overall I prefer do my own thing and compete against other individuals as opposed to teams. One isn't better than the other, they're just different.

Catt reply :

@RoLo Megabucks Tournaments!

In Megabucks tournaments the lake is divided into 10 sections, the top 10 qualifying anglers rotate through each section every 50 minutes.

Larry Nixon won 4 times

@Logan S I've been tournament fishing since 1972 & front-ending has been around long before the internet.

Everything is "hunky-dory" until money hits the table!

I've never understood why two people who are supposedly friends don't understand the benefits of fishing together.

How the team game plans strengths & weaknesses will determine how successful they will be!

Y'all must fish together as a team not as two individuals out fishing!

When done in unison both anglers can cover water quickly & throughly, which allows for a greater opportunity to establish patterns faster!

Logan S reply :

On 3/6/2017 at 5:09 PM, Catt said:

@Logan S I've been tournament fishing since 1972 & front-ending has been around long before the internet.

Everything is "hunky-dory" until money hits the table!

I've never understood why two people who are supposedly friends don't understand the benefits of fishing together.

How the team game plans strengths & weaknesses will determine how successful they will be!

Y'all must fish together as a team not as two individuals out fishing!

When done in unison both anglers can cover water quickly & throughly, which allows for a greater opportunity to establish patterns faster!

All I'm saying is that the complaints about it are far more numerous on the internet than they are in real life...And IMO can paint an unfair picture of the boater/co-angler dynamic. I'm not saying it doesn't happen or didn't happen before.

I totally get what your saying about teamwork and it's all well reasoned and valid...It just doesn't really apply to non-team events in the real world. We're not a team, we're competing individually - even if not against each other, it's still individually.

Catt reply :

On 3/6/2017 at 11:58 PM, Logan S said:

I totally get what your saying about teamwork and it's all well reasoned and valid...It just doesn't really apply to non-team events in the real world. We're not a team, we're competing individually - even if not against each other, it's still individually.

When two anglers in a boat are competing individually then the one in control of the boat will put the other at a disadvantage... It's human nature & that is the real world.

When done in unison both anglers cover water quicker & more throughly, allowing for a greater opportunity to establish patterns faster they also eliminate nonproductive water quicker.

I not saying ya need to switch to "Team" tournaments, ya just need to fish as one.

scaleface reply :

Club tournaments , I always gave the non boater plenty of opportunities . If we were going down a bank we took turns making first cast at cover. It was a fun competition and him or i better make the first cast count because it is open game after that . Three anglers won tourneys from the back seat of my boat . I didnt care who won as long as it came from my boat . I also won two times from the back .

Swbass15 reply :

My club fishes boaters and non boaters against each other, no separating them. As a co angler and being one of 3 in the club I can pick my boater. I have found a great boater who treats me very well. Like Catt has said about fishing as a team it's what we do, we know we are competing against each other but we are more focused on figuring out that smaller than a pea sized green fish than beating each other. Due to a knee replacement surgery my boater allows me to run the front 75% of the time now, and believe it not he still out fishes me from the back, I have yet to learn how to slow down but I'm learning.

if co anglers are that determined to win they need to do one of two things, find a club where you only compete against the other co anglers or buy a boat. I signed up to fish and learn, I've been lucky and placed first and second from the back of the boat before, I fished my way with what I had and it worked out. But don't complain cause you don't get first shot at everything.

Wurming67 reply :

It is nice to fish with someone that thinks of the co angler but the bottom line it's his boat and you gotta do what he wants to do and take what he gives you if not go get your own boat.

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