Silly MLF rule 2024
pauldconyers reply :
http://www.another site.com/news_article/9458/new-bpt-rules-limit-angler-networking#.XGos0uhKhPY
How in the world do they plan on "enforcing" this rule? At midnight of the first practice day anglers can't talk about baits, the fishery, etc. Is it me or isn't this kind of silly? Are they just on the honor system or something?
jbsoonerfan reply :
Dead horse. Been talked about already. They won't cheat for fear of being caught.
pauldconyers reply :
On 2/18/2019 at 1:17 PM, jbsoonerfan said:Dead horse. Been talked about already. They won't cheat for fear of being caught.
Didn't see that conversation. How are you caught if two people are talking? One of the two rat on the other and in the process expose themselves? If everyone can talk to everybody no one has an advantage over anyone else and don't have to have silly rules. They already almost blind fold and gag anglers on the way to the water. While different I can kind of see the idea behind it at least.
jbsoonerfan reply :
Okay, honor system is your answer.
pauldconyers reply :
On 2/18/2019 at 1:26 PM, jbsoonerfan said:Okay, honor system is your answer.
No, my answer is don't try to legislate a silly rule like this in the first place. They said all their rules are fluid, this is one that will go away quickly. Guys who are friends will be off the water in the evening on the road in cities where they do not know anyone. Obviously they will go to dinner together and such. Obviously the talk would migrate to their shared work field. Is the other guy going to stick his fingers in his ear and say "LA LA LA" so he doesn't "cheat"?
jbsoonerfan reply :
On 2/18/2019 at 1:30 PM, pauldconyers said:No, my answer is don't try to legislate a silly rule like this in the first place. They said all their rules are fluid, this is one that will go away quickly. Guys who are friends will be off the water in the evening on the road in cities where they do not know anyone. Obviously they will go to dinner together and such. Obviously the talk would migrate to their shared work field. Is the other guy going to stick his fingers in his ear and say "LA LA LA" so he doesn't "cheat"?
Yes, Luke Clausen failed a lie detector after going to dinner one day and a local (not a pro) was talking to him about the lake they were fishing. He finished in the top 12 and he failed the lie detector and forgot about the conversation. I guess you are determined to say they are going to cheat since you started a thread talking about "silly" rule.
pauldconyers reply :
On 2/18/2019 at 1:35 PM, jbsoonerfan said:Yes, Luke Clausen failed a lie detector after going to dinner one day and a local (not a pro) was talking to him about the lake they were fishing. He finished in the top 12 and he failed the lie detector and forgot about the conversation. I guess you are determined to say they are going to cheat since you started a thread talking about "silly" rule.
They are SERIOUSLY administering lie detector tests???
jbsoonerfan reply :
On 2/18/2019 at 1:36 PM, pauldconyers said:They are SERIOUSLY administering lie detector tests???
LOL, are you new to tournament fishing????
They do it at the local level. You don't think they do it when hundreds of thousands are on the line?
No wonder you asked the question.
pauldconyers reply :
On 2/18/2019 at 1:38 PM, jbsoonerfan said:LOL, are you new to tournament fishing????
They do it at the local level. You don't think they do it when hundreds of thousands are on the line?
No wonder you asked the question.
I am. I understand there can be a lot of money on the line but this just seems ridiculous to try to tell people what they can and can't talk about. I can understand if there are connecting lakes or areas they you are not allowed to go into and such that TRULY would give someone a competitive advantage about but this just seems excessive to me. Maybe it is just me.
Jrob78 reply :
This isn't a new thing that MLF just came up with. BASS has no information rules and lakes are off limits for a month before a tournament. The only way to enforce these and many other rules is with lie detector tests and that is what they do at all levels where large amounts of money are involved.
pauldconyers reply :
On 2/18/2019 at 2:10 PM, Jrob78 said:This isn't a new thing that MLF just came up with. BASS has no information rules and lakes are off limits for a month before a tournament. The only way to enforce these and many other rules is with lie detector tests and that is what they do at all levels where large amounts of money are involved.
I can understand that and that certainly makes sense. I'm curious what kind of questions are asked. Do they ask if they hired someone to go fish that lake and give them a report? If they are out to eat and a local comes up and starts giving a guy a bunch of tips does he have to cut the guy off immediately for fear he would fail the test? I'm curious if they are asked these questions before they take the stage at a huge weigh in so not to potentially announce a winner publicly only to have to back track later. Does BASS also not allow anglers to talk to each other about the lake and baits used once the tournament starts?
Jrob78 reply :
On 2/18/2019 at 2:17 PM, pauldconyers said:I can understand that and that certainly makes sense. I'm curious what kind of questions are asked. Do they ask if they hired someone to go fish that lake and give them a report? If they are out to eat and a local comes up and starts giving a guy a bunch of tips does he have to cut the guy off immediately for fear he would fail the test? I'm curious if they are asked these questions before they take the stage at a huge weigh in so not to potentially announce a winner publicly only to have to back track later. Does BASS also not allow anglers to talk to each other about the lake and baits used once the tournament starts?
No idea, it isn't something that is talked about much.
BASS allows anglers to share information with each other but not get outside information.
Oregon Native reply :
There house....their rules.
Yup
junyer357 reply :
Its to keep it even, so it doesnt become a team sport like nascar, where you work as a team to push the team as a whole to the top. Would it be as much fun to watch if you had a group like swindle, j lee, m lee, and strader working together and finishing as a group at the top every week, unless team palunik, kvd, omori, and howell knocks them off? It keeps,it an individual sport, where you bring your personal best and see if its good enough on your own.
Most team tounament guys i know both bring their own boats to practice days, and fish diffrent ways and areas to try and dial in a pattern. One may fish offshore structure and points and other junk fish shallow, or one on south end and one on north end of lake and so on. It allows them to cover more water faster.
Team9nine reply :
On 2/18/2019 at 2:17 PM, pauldconyers said:I can understand that and that certainly makes sense. I'm curious what kind of questions are asked. Do they ask if they hired someone to go fish that lake and give them a report? If they are out to eat and a local comes up and starts giving a guy a bunch of tips does he have to cut the guy off immediately for fear he would fail the test? I'm curious if they are asked these questions before they take the stage at a huge weigh in so not to potentially announce a winner publicly only to have to back track later. Does BASS also not allow anglers to talk to each other about the lake and baits used once the tournament starts?
Depends on the circuit and the circumstances around the test. If you have been protested, then the questions will be directly focused on the particular infraction in question. Whether you take it before or after depends upon when it was reported and the discretion of the tournament director.
In the case of just a standard polygraph as random or for the winner, then the questions are more general and taken immediately following the event. For example, I had to take one immediately after winning a regional event with a boat as the winning prize. Questions were things like, did you knowingly break any rules; were your fish all caught in a legal and sporting manner; did you receive any information or help from anyone not entered in the event; were you on the lake during the off-limits period; did you weigh any fish not legally caught by yourself, etc.
scaleface reply :
My cousin took polygraph after we won a large event . One of us had to take it and he volunteered . The bad part is we were accused of fishing in an off limits area and I dont believe polygraphs work anyway . We were ten miles from the questionable area . He passed it . I still dont think the things work .
813basstard reply :
On 2/18/2019 at 11:12 PM, scaleface said:My cousin took polygraph after we won a large event . One of us had to take it and he volunteered . The bad part is we were accused of fishing in an off limits area and I dont believe polygraphs work anyway . We were ten miles from the questionable area . He passed it . I still dont think the things work .
What’s the rule if you fail the test? That’s it, you lose??
Tennessee Boy reply :
On 2/18/2019 at 11:12 PM, scaleface said:My cousin took polygraph after we won a large event . One of us had to take it and he volunteered . The bad part is we were accused of fishing in an off limits area and I dont believe polygraphs work anyway . We were ten miles from the questionable area . He passed it . I still dont think the things work .
There have been several studies that show that in most cases they do not work. Sixty Minutes did a story on lie detector test many years ago that was very interesting. They paid people that worked at a CBS owned photography magazine to take polygraph test from several polygraph companies. Each company was told that a different person was suspected of stealing a camera. The "suspect" was not told that they were the suspect. In every case the results showed that suspect was lying.
scaleface reply :
On 2/19/2019 at 3:46 AM, 813basstard said:What’s the rule if you fail the test? That’s it, you lose??
I dont know .
Mike L reply :
Depending on the circuit, there could be an appeal mechanism in place where all factors are considered.
If you were turned in by someone who witnessed you do something, and you failed the test you forfeit the win and all monies paid.
Including any contingencies.
Mike
MN Fisher reply :
Polygraphs - "Courts, including the United States Supreme Court (cf. U.S. v. Scheffer, 1998 in which Dr.'s Saxe's research on polygraph fallibility was cited), have repeatedly rejected the use of polygraph evidence because of its inherent unreliability." https://www.apa.org/research/action/polygraph
I'd refuse the test and sue if they demanded that you had to take a polygraph or forfeit.
Sam reply :
Paul, a number of years ago Richmond, Virginia was host to a number of B.A.S.S. Northern Tournaments.
This Historic James river, the Appomattox river, and the Chickahominy river were all off limits.
So what did I and a friend do? We headed out to the Route 5 ramp to hit the water three days before the tournament just to try our luck.
What we saw was mind boggling. My friend and I were wearing our jeans, a long sleeve shirt, tennis shoes, sunglasses, and a cap.
We saw a number of beautiful Rangers with 250 Mercs and other high end bass boats with guys dressed for work-casual: tan pants, blue shirts, professional looking fishing shoes, and of course, sunglasses and a cap.
What were they doing? Each was prefishing the waters for a professional. They would take what information they gathered on their recon mission back to friends in Richmond who would tell their pro what these guys told them about the fishing conditions, etc.
Was it legal? I have no idea. But it was interesting seeing guys on the Chick river dressed for work and having all of their teeth.
pauldconyers reply :
On 2/19/2019 at 8:19 AM, MN Fisher said:Polygraphs - "Courts, including the United States Supreme Court (cf. U.S. v. Scheffer, 1998 in which Dr.'s Saxe's research on polygraph fallibility was cited), have repeatedly rejected the use of polygraph evidence because of its inherent unreliability." https://www.apa.org/research/action/polygraph
I'd refuse the test and sue if they demanded that you had to take a polygraph or forfeit.
I'd imagine that by entering into the test you sign something saying you will submit to a polygraph if asked to take one.
On 2/19/2019 at 8:40 AM, Sam said:Paul, a number of years ago Richmond, Virginia was host to a number of B.A.S.S. Northern Tournaments.
This Historic James river, the Appomattox river, and the Chickahominy river were all off limits.
So what did I and a friend do? We headed out to the Route 5 ramp to hit the water three days before the tournament just to try our luck.
What we saw was mind boggling. My friend and I were wearing our jeans, a long sleeve shirt, tennis shoes, sunglasses, and a cap.
We saw a number of beautiful Rangers with 250 Mercs and other high end bass boats with guys dressed for work-casual: tan pants, blue shirts, professional looking fishing shoes, and of course, sunglasses and a cap.
What were they doing? Each was prefishing the waters for a professional. They would take what information they gathered on their recon mission back to friends in Richmond who would tell their pro what these guys told them about the fishing conditions, etc.
Was it legal? I have no idea. But it was interesting seeing guys on the Chick river dressed for work and having all of their teeth.
Again, when there is this much money at stake people will do what people will do. Great story!
Mike L reply :
On 2/19/2019 at 10:23 AM, pauldconyers said:I'd imagine that by entering into the test you sign something saying you will submit to a polygraph if asked to take one.
In most local and all national circuit tournaments regardless of the level, the governing rules and regulations are made available to each entrant who's responsibility is to know and accept as is.
If you enter you agree to them all regardless of your personal preference.
Mike
jbsoonerfan reply :
On 2/19/2019 at 10:57 AM, Mike L said:In most local and all national circuit tournaments regardless of the level, the governing rules and regulations are made available to each entrant who's responsibility is to know and accept as is.
If you enter you agree to them all regardless of your personal preference.
Mike
Every tournament I have fished it has said something about a lie detector possibly being used. If you sign that waiver you are agreeing to taking one. They would laugh at someone when they threatened to sue. But, it is 2019 and people will sue for anything looking for a quick payday.
MN Fisher reply :
On 2/19/2019 at 11:06 AM, jbsoonerfan said:Every tournament I have fished it has said something about a lie detector possibly being used. If you sign that waiver you are agreeing to taking one. They would laugh at someone when they threatened to sue. But, it is 2019 and people will sue for anything looking for a quick payday.
That makes it easy for me...I just won't fish any tournaments. Why they decide to use a system that the courts state is unreliable enough to establish 'reasonable doubt' is beyond me.
jbsoonerfan reply :
On 2/19/2019 at 11:09 AM, MN Fisher said:That makes it easy for me...I just won't fish any tournaments. Why they decide to use a system that the courts state is unreliable enough to establish 'reasonable doubt' is beyond me.
They probably do it to either A. Scare people into not cheating just in case, or B. Keep people like you from fishing so they don't have to worry about a legal battle.
It may not be admissible in a court of law, but it is usually good enough to get someone to crack (which I am pretty sure is the intent)
TnRiver46 reply :
Gerald swindle had a video somewhere where he said this rule was silly when BASS first came out with it. His reasoning was every single time he interacts with fans of the sport, they want to talk about skipping a jig on guntersville or fishing a jerkbait on Champlain, just depends on what city they are in. So now he has to just cut them off when they start talking fishing. If you take “talking fishing” out of the sport, that’s why people call it “silly.” Even top pros
Troy85 reply :
On 2/19/2019 at 9:05 PM, TnRiver46 said:Gerald swindle had a video somewhere where he said this rule was silly when BASS first came out with it. His reasoning was every single time he interacts with fans of the sport, they want to talk about skipping a jig on guntersville or fishing a jerkbait on Champlain, just depends on what city they are in. So now he has to just cut them off when they start talking fishing. If you take “talking fishing” out of the sport, that’s why people call it “silly.” Even top pros
I remember him saying this as well. I agree, it does seem like a silly rule. Then you hear Sams story about paying guys to practice for you, then the rules makes more sense. Still ruins it though for the fans who wanna talk fishing with pros.
Hawkeye21 reply :
On 2/19/2019 at 11:09 AM, MN Fisher said:That makes it easy for me...I just won't fish any tournaments. Why they decide to use a system that the courts state is unreliable enough to establish 'reasonable doubt' is beyond me.
That's your option but when you love to fish tourneys what other option do you have? What do you suggest these tourneys do to avoid cheating then? A polygraph is not perfect but it can certainly help prevent a lot of cheating. I know it's in the back of my head while fishing that if I win I'll have to take one, so I make sure I don't screw up.
TnRiver46 reply :
I'm guessing @MN Fisher is like me and doesn't have any desire to fish tournaments. Sure I enjoy friendly competition among friends and bragging rights are pretty funny but all these rules just seem crazy. I enjoy BASS on TV but I fished a tournament myself once and it was just not for me (especially the ride with a stranger at 70 mph part). Kind of like baseball: I love to watch on TV and play pickup in the yard but I still can't make the big leagues or verbally explain the infield fly rule to my girlfriend. As far as the polygraph thing, I'm sure the tournament organizers are just trying to prevent cheating the best they can but I was unaware that polygraphs have been proven ineffective. You would think the next step would be to find a more reliable solution but I sure don't know of one
MN Fisher reply :
On 2/20/2019 at 1:27 AM, TnRiver46 said:is like me and doesn't have any desire to fish tournaments.
It's not that I wouldn't like to fish a tournament, but with the various rules they enforce it's not worth the headaches. Boat tournaments here basically preclude my canoe as they have a massive advantage of reaching the fishing spots from the launch points. The Kayak tournaments here - even thought the Kayak group accepts Canoe owners as members, requires their tournament fishing to be from a Kayak...period.
So, no tournaments for me - which is a bummer.
TnRiver46 reply :
On 2/20/2019 at 1:38 AM, MN Fisher said:It's not that I wouldn't like to fish a tournament, but with the various rules they enforce it's not worth the headaches. Boat tournaments here basically preclude my canoe as they have a massive advantage of reaching the fishing spots from the launch points. The Kayak tournaments here - even thought the Kayak group accepts Canoe owners as members, requires their tournament fishing to be from a Kayak...period.
So, no tournaments for me - which is a bummer.
There may some online national tournaments that allow a canoe to compete. I am also a canoe fisherman, I have an alumacraft. She's my baby........
J Francho reply :
Lie detector results are inadmissible as evidence in criminal proceedings. That doesn't make them ineffective. They are still used by law enforcement, especially in cases to exonerate or rule out a suspect. The reason is that interpreting the results is subjective. They're basically comparing baselines when telling the truth and intentionally lying. Then ask specific questions that have simple answers, and compare to the baselines.
The bottom line, it's a silly reason NOT to participate in a tournament, and you're not suing anyone for it, since you agree to the rules when entering. As far as rules go by the way, I've found anything different than a regular day of fishing other than the safety and livewell check, and having to be back at the launch at a certain time. I only fish team format anymore, so the two people in the boat are working together. It's no different to me than meeting up with a buddy at the ramp. Sometimes it's my boat, other times it's theirs. It's just fishing all the same to me.
MN Fisher reply :
Sorry @J Francho, given the truly subjective nature of Polygraph tests and this quote from the link I provided before - "For now, although the idea of a lie detector may be comforting, the most practical advice is to remain skeptical about any conclusion wrung from a polygraph." - any rules that state a Polygraph may be given is reason enough for me to not enter.
Team9nine reply :
Obviously it is up to each individual to choose whether to enter an event or not, but the polygraph requirement in most major events isn’t going away anytime soon. The legality behind them, the rules and compliance’s in the entry form you sign, and the discretion of the tourney director have been legally upheld in court, so precedent has been set. You fail the polygraph, you lose. It’s really that simple.
jbsoonerfan reply :
On 2/19/2019 at 10:57 PM, Hawkeye21 said:That's your option but when you love to fish tourneys what other option do you have? What do you suggest these tourneys do to avoid cheating then? A polygraph is not perfect but it can certainly help prevent a lot of cheating. I know it's in the back of my head while fishing that if I win I'll have to take one, so I make sure I don't screw up.
That's your option but when you love to fish tourneys what other option do you have? What do you suggest these tourneys do to avoid cheating then? A polygraph is not perfect but it can certainly help prevent a lot of cheating. I know it's in the back of my head while fishing that if I win I'll have to take one, so I make sure I don't win. LOL
Just had to change the end of your post to best suit my needs. ????
J Francho reply :
The big issue with the lie detector test is that it can be beaten, not that they're unreliable. Check out the countermeasures and use sections here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polygraph
Their effectiveness being highly debated within the medical and research community says to me that trusting one link to a single medical organization may not yield all the useful information to make an informed decision. That said, I'm not discounting you're distrust of the device. Just seems like a strange thing to fuss over. It's been standard practice for decades.
Logan S reply :
On 2/20/2019 at 1:38 AM, MN Fisher said:It's not that I wouldn't like to fish a tournament, but with the various rules they enforce it's not worth the headaches. Boat tournaments here basically preclude my canoe as they have a massive advantage of reaching the fishing spots from the launch points. The Kayak tournaments here - even thought the Kayak group accepts Canoe owners as members, requires their tournament fishing to be from a Kayak...period.
So, no tournaments for me - which is a bummer.
Regular tournaments have rules and minimum requirements for boats for legitimate reasons. Safety, livewells, ability to accommodate a co-angler, etc.
I don't kayak fish, but I can see where a canoe likely has larger storage capacity than kayaks...Probably some other legitimate/competitive reasons too.
You could always fish a tournament as a co-angler if you actually want to try them.
lo n slo reply :
On 2/20/2019 at 2:32 AM, MN Fisher said:Sorry @J Francho, given the truly subjective nature of Polygraph tests and this quote from the link I provided before - "For now, although the idea of a lie detector may be comforting, the most practical advice is to remain skeptical about any conclusion wrung from a polygraph." - any rules that state a Polygraph may be given is reason enough for me to not enter.
if you’re ever down this way brother you can fish with me in the next tournament without any fear of having to take a polygraph.....heck we may call it a day a couple hours early an save ourselves some embarrassment at the weigh in. ????????????
blongfishing reply :
This rule is nothing new and pretty much all major tournament trails do this. I know even on the high school level with BASS you can't accept information. In fact, today I was looking over my rules packet for a BASS event I'm fishing coming up next week. One of the first rules says that if anyone even mentions the slightest thing about the lakes conditions, baits, or anything of that nature you have to stick your fingers in your ears and say "I am not able to accept information for this tournament". On the water while fishing you can share information with other competitors but off the water it is a "no-no"
Quoted from the rules:
"During Official Practice, you cannot solicit (ask) for fishing advice from anyone who isn't entered into the tournament. Example, if you are fishing down a bank and a person comes out on the dock and starts to tell you where to go or how to fish, you answer is easy. "Madam/sir, I appreciate you trying to help me but per rule I cannot get any advice from anyone who isn't fishing in the tournament."
buzzbaiter83 reply :
I help run a Bass Club. It’s in our rules that suspected cheaters can be subject to polygraph. It also says that if you’re the accusing party then you agree to pay for the polygraph. We’ve never had anyone ask to administer one.
OCdockskipper reply :
I started a bass club (actually an official B.A.S.S. affiliate!) way back in the 1970's when I was 15, the Canyon Lake BassMasters. However, I didn't know any of the other guys who fished the lake, so I listed myself as the President, my dad as VP, my mom as Treasurer and my little sister as Secretary. My mom & dad didn't fish, so if there were any allegations of cheating between my sister & I, they would just administer a spanking...
Jleebesaw reply :
The elite series guys can talk about the fishing off the water. Jacob wheeler has videos on you tube where 3 or 4 of them sit around after practice days and even during the tourney talking about where they are catching them and what lures they used. Him and 2 other guys share rooms. If they weren't allowed to talk about it, I'm sure he wouldn't be showing them doing it on you tube. In one of his newer videos during the first mlf event he comments about not being able to talk to each other after midnight. But when he was fishing bass they talked plenty.
As someone else mentioned, I have seen the pre fishing before the elite series events too. For 2 weeks before the big derby, you can hardly find a parking spot at a launch on the st lawrence river. They are full of trucks from out of state. A friend of mine even had something on facebook about it where he counted them all at one spot. I don't have the exact numbers but there were several truck from texas and Oklahoma. Only 2 trucks had new york plates. I'm not sure if they are allowed to do it, but they definatly have people scout for them. It can't be a coincidence.
junyer357 reply :
Locally here, its in the tourny rules that winners can be subjected to a polygraph. Matter of fact, the polygraph techs, make far more money on weekends from working tourneys than they do on their regular pay. Usually about once a year, you hear about someone failing and being found guilty of cheating (often guntersville). Being found guilty also means a ban from most future tournaments, as well as a suspension of their fishing license and possible jail time and fines.
jbsoonerfan reply :
On 2/26/2019 at 10:16 AM, junyer357 said:Locally here, its in the tourny rules that winners can be subjected to a polygraph. Matter of fact, the polygraph techs, make far more money on weekends from working tourneys than they do on their regular pay. Usually about once a year, you hear about someone failing and being found guilty of cheating (often guntersville). Being found guilty also means a ban from most future tournaments, as well as a suspension of their fishing license and possible jail time and fines.
Slow down there easy rider. Loss of fishing license? I doubt the state cares whether or not someone fails a lie detector in a fishing tournament. Possible jail time? Lie detectors are admissible in the court of law. Fines? As long as no game laws were broke, what could they be fined for?
Scott F reply :
On 2/26/2019 at 10:38 AM, jbsoonerfan said:Slow down there easy rider. Loss of fishing license? I doubt the state cares whether or not someone fails a lie detector in a fishing tournament. Possible jail time? Lie detectors are admissible in the court of law. Fines? As long as no game laws were broke, what could they be fined for?
It's not game laws tournament cheaters are breaking. I think the authorities consider cheating in tournaments as a type of fraud where they take money under false pretenses.
jbsoonerfan reply :
On 2/26/2019 at 11:29 AM, Scott F said:It's not game laws tournament cheaters are breaking. I think the authorities consider cheating in tournaments as a type of fraud where they take money under false pretenses.
That would be hard to prove in a court of law. Can't imagine it happening over a fishing tournament. Lie detectors can't be used in a murder trial but I'm supposed to believe we are using them to put guys in jail over some fish and money?
BTW, I understand it has happened, but there has to be evidence, not just failing a polygraph.
junyer357 reply :
http://www.waff.com/story/26537713/fishermen-found-guilty-of-cheating-in-tournament/
I see a story like this about once a year. This was from a tue nite tourny too, not a bigger weekend one.
jbsoonerfan reply :
Nothing mentioned about a polygraph.
J Francho reply :
On 2/26/2019 at 11:33 AM, jbsoonerfan said:That would be hard to prove in a court of law. Can't imagine it happening over a fishing tournament. Lie detectors can't be used in a murder trial but I'm supposed to believe we are using them to put guys in jail over some fish and money?
BTW, I understand it has happened, but there has to be evidence, not just failing a polygraph.
Failing a polygraph is just the start. It's a tool used in an investigation. Doesn't mean the test results were used as evidence in a trial. Keep in mind, you break fish and game laws, the burden on the prosecutor is much less than something like a murder trial. Fish and game officers also have much more freedom to search and seize than typical police officer. Lastly, if proven guilty, many states have reciprocity laws. Lose you right to fish in one state, you can lose it in many. The point I see in the article is your disbelief that someone would go to jail over fish and money. The link provided proves to you that it happens. That is not an isolated case.
jbsoonerfan reply :
On 2/26/2019 at 11:33 AM, jbsoonerfan said:That would be hard to prove in a court of law. Can't imagine it happening over a fishing tournament. Lie detectors can't be used in a murder trial but I'm supposed to believe we are using them to put guys in jail over some fish and money?
BTW, I understand it has happened, but there has to be evidence, not just failing a polygraph.
Did you miss this?
Team9nine reply :
On 2/26/2019 at 10:23 PM, jbsoonerfan said:Did you miss this: but there has to be evidence
Not in the case of being disqualified for prizes in a tournament. Polygraph is enough to have your catch thrown out at tournament directors discretion. Everyone signs onto that when they submit their entry.
jbsoonerfan reply :
On 2/26/2019 at 10:28 PM, Team9nine said:Not in the case of being disqualified for prizes in a tournament. Polygraph is enough to have your catch thrown out at tournament directors discretion. Everyone signs onto that when they submit their entry.
I know that, I said that in an earlier post. This post was made in reference to the post about jail time.
J Francho reply :
No. A polygraph is a smell test. Fail, and questions will follow, evidence collected. You're being too literal. The whole point of this thread was how do they prove the anglers got no outside help. A polygraph is one way to determine if a competitor broke a rule. Fail, and that's a big smell. You can get into all the minutia, if you want, but it doesn't serve the thread at all. Like T9 said, competitors agree to the terms of the contest at the beginning. If the terms include passing a polygraph, then that's that.
On 2/26/2019 at 10:23 PM, jbsoonerfan said:Did you miss this?
jbsoonerfan reply :
On 2/26/2019 at 10:32 PM, J Francho said:No. A polygraph is a smell test. Fail, and questions will follow, evidence collected. You're being too literal. The whole point of this thread was how do they prove the anglers got no outside help. A polygraph is one way to determine if a competitor broke a rule. Fail, and that's a big smell. You can get into all the minutia, if you want, but it doesn't serve the thread at all. Like T9 said, competitors agree to the terms of the contest at the beginning. If the terms include passing a polygraph, then that's that.
I said that at the beginning of the thread.
J Francho reply :
And we're done here.
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