What makes you PRO? 2024

Hale reply :

So why is fishing different than most every other sport? A man can fish local club tournaments, win money, and still be considered an amatuer. In just about every other individual sport, if you receive any cash winnings you are considered pro. This happened to me with surfing (many years ago). I entered a pro event under amatuer status, I accepted the cash prize and from then on I was ineligible for any amatuer events.

So what makes you a pro at fishing?

preach4bass reply :

The term "professional angler" or "professional fisherman" is subjective. If you fish some smaller tournament trails you are considered a "pro" if you fish in the front of the boat and an "amature" if you fish in the back. You have to go through a qualification process to become a BASS or FLW "pro." So, it's kind of subjective in my opinion.

NJfishinGuy reply :

when ever i think of pro i think of someone who makes there living off of fishing or at least do it most of the time.

5bass reply :

Another way to be considered pro is to have over 1/2 of your yearly wages be from tournament winnings.

guest reply :

So I guess that makes me a WELFARE UNEMPLYED FISHERMAN because It costs me to fish

dink reply :

My shirt. ;D

BillyBob reply :

So what makes you a pro at fishing?

Don't really know when you arrive, except that calling yourself one, isn't it, others saying you are, is!

Hale reply :

If we are talking a matter of opinions, then a full time guide would be considered a professional in his sport.

Is it in everyone's opinion that an endorsement contract would also define a 'pro'? (Otherwise known on here as a sponcer, sponser, or sponcir. ;D)

guest reply :

Otherwise known on here as a sponcer, sponser, or sponcir. ) Hey Hale now thats funny

bow3022 reply :

I think experience and skill. Money, sponsors blah blah blah. You can have all the money in the world, and be a crappy angler. You can buy the best boat, gear etc etc and not catch a single fish because u can't cast a baitcaster, or have a good hookset. just me 2 cents.

Hale reply :

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others saying you are, is

I like that!

BASSMACHINE reply :

Everyone is a professional at something. Being a professional means that there is one thing that you earn a majority of your income doing. If you are a greeter at wal-mart and make $15,000.00 a year and you fish local tournaments and win $15,001.00 in a years time you were a professional fisherman for that one year.

earthworm77 reply :

Disagreed, you are a Pro when your W-2 says Professional Angler or guide as your occupation. Everyone else just thinks they are.

Pro Staff means promotional staff not professional staff. You could hold a dozen staff memberships but if your W-2 says you are a contractor, you are a contractor.

Hale reply :

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Disagreed, you are a Pro when your W-2 says Professional Angler or guide as your occupation. Everyone else just thinks they are.
Pro Staff means promotional staff not professional staff. You could hold a dozen staff memberships but if your W-2 says you are a contractor, you are a contractor.

I dont think we are going to get a better answer than that!!!

JT Bagwell reply :

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Disagreed, you are a Pro when your W-2 says Professional Angler or guide as your occupation. Everyone else just thinks they are.
Pro Staff means promotional staff not professional staff. You could hold a dozen staff memberships but if your W-2 says you are a contractor, you are a contractor.

What if a person works for a company that pays enough money to allow that person to fish competitively all year (FLW or BASS Tour) on the professional side. While fishing that person wins $80,000, but his company pays him $250,000. Is he a "Pro" or just a guy that won $80,000 fishing?

This has always been an interesting topic to me.

I do not consider myself a "Pro" although I generate a good chunk of

revenue from the fishing industry (not fishing tournaments specifically).

JT Bagwell

earthworm77 reply :

I'll stick by the W-2 thing. Jt, do you mean that a guy earns enough money from his job at say Ford to fish competitively and that he wins 80,000. or are we talking this guy works in the fishing industry for a major tackle company and they pay his way? The first example indicates this guy is not a pro, the second indicates he may be a pro but again, I think it comes down to what he says he does for a living come tax time.

I make a good living off of the fishing industry through my company, journalism and competitive fishing I also do not consider myself a Pro.

Its a big one reply :

you know you are a pro when you quit making amateur mistakes.

Hale reply :

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I'll stick by the W-2 thing. Jt, do you mean that a guy earns enough money from his job at say Ford to fish competitively and that he wins 80,000...

I think your onto something here. The guy in this example would write off his fishing as a hobby (if the money is even accounted for to Uncle Sam). Where as guy number 2 is explcitely filling in regards to fishing being his primary source of income.

BillyBob reply :

Here is something for you admitted "non-pros" to think about. Would you consider anyone or everyone on the BASS Elite series to be a PRO? Does the FLW Pro-Series stand for Professional or Promotional Series? How about the BASS Opens or the Stren Series?

The thing is, I personally know for a fact! that there's "guys" out there I'D call PRO, who on their 1040, list other occupations, and one in particular whose 1040 says," loan originator", thats won over 200K in tour money this year and is headed to the classic!... He's not a PRO ? How about the bottom third of the "guys" that don't break even on the Elite Tour, and generate livelyhoods from their outside businesses? They not Pros? Funny but they and BASS, think they are. I have to take exception to the litmus of "occupation on a 1040" as the only criteria for someone that has worked as hard and long to EARN the title of PRO.

Heres the point. I don't care what your title or for that matter (W-2)which by the way, doesn't list your occupation, its on the 1040 beside you signature and you put it there, says...until everyone around you talks about you being a PRO ANGLER it doesn't matter what YOU call yourself. The litmus test is what others say about you, not what you say about yourself. Professionals don't have to brag, others do it for them!

George Welcome reply :

Pro-fisherman is a designation of achievement, not one of income.

Professional fisherman is a designation of source income, but not one of achievement.

Although either can be both, neither have to be both.

A Pro-fisherman is one who is "currently" plying nationally recognized tournament trails.

A professional fisherman is one who "earns" his living fishing on a day to day basis.

My particular designation to Uncle Sam's IRS fund is Pro-Fishing Guide: not Pro-fisherman, nor professional fisherman.

JT Bagwell reply :

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I'll stick by the W-2 thing. Jt, do you mean that a guy earns enough money from his job at say Ford to fish competitively and that he wins 80,000. or are we talking this guy works in the fishing industry for a major tackle company and they pay his way? The first example indicates this guy is not a pro, the second indicates he may be a pro but again, I think it comes down to what he says he does for a living come tax time.
I make a good living off of the fishing industry through my company, journalism and competitive fishing I also do not consider myself a Pro.

What I was meaning in my scenario was the guys gets paid $250k from his normal job (ie, Doctor, Lawyer, Welder, etc). He also gets enough time off to

fish the tour. While on tour (fishing on the Pro side) he wins $80,000, which is

more than a lot of "Pro" anglers win. However, in the real world he is still a Doctor, Lawyer, Welder or whatever. By some people's definition he would be a Pro Angler. However, by other's standards, he would not.

As I said before, this topic always brings out some interesting thoughts and I believe they are good for the boards.

JT Bagwell

Matt Fly reply :

I have always consider the pros to be the guys who pay the outrageous entry fees.

If you fish a lesser division, BFL, Weekend Series, you are semi- pro at best.

So to me, the only pro tours out there are the Elite and FLW, the rest are ladder rungs to be climbed.

Pro has always been a level that distinguishes between amatuer or professional status, and there are a lot of guys who make the final jump who are only rookie by name.

You don't go to HS, college, then get drafted to be a pro, this is one sport that doesn't follow the normal path to determine true professional status as most other sports do.

Matt

earthworm77 reply :

However, in the real world he is still a Doctor, Lawyer, Welder or whatever.

I think that sums it up, he still has to go in every Monday morning and put his coat on the coat rack next to the desk and do his real job.

Hale reply :

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You don't go to HS, college, then get drafted to be a pro, this is one sport that doesn't follow the normal path to determine true professional status as most other sports do.

That was kind of my point to all of this and why I wanted to see everyone elses view on it.

I somewhat disagree with you though on the Pro Tours. For instance, anyone can go out and hit the three events at Bassmaster Opens and qualify for the next years Elite Series. Ranking in three events at: Kissimmee, Santee, and Wheeler is not really that difficult considering those are producing lakes and anyone can get some weight there (not underminding the competition). BASS has formatted their trails to be easy for anyone to enter and compete. Providing them the opportunity to become a 'PRO' without many years of hardship, abuse, and sacrifices.

We did get off track on something that concerns me. The money issue: No other sport will allow an amatuer to recieve cash payouts and still be qualified to fish events as an amatuer status....dont go there when it comes to the Olympics or NCAA either.

I think this sport needs a governing body that clearly outlines the guidelines and regulations of being a pro or amatuer. BASS and FLW are nothing but big business and have no concern in being a leading example of the sport (unless its for marketing purposes). Dont get me wrong, Im not bashing them either, I just see the need for some order!

Banor reply :

Governing body to govern what exactly? Specifics please. I'd like to agree or disagree with you on this issue but dont have all the details.

Matt Fly reply :

What governing body resides over the NFL? NBA? other pro organizations?

I believe the owners makes up the governing body. They select a commish. to run their organization by the rules they vote on, not the public.

I would think the owners of BASS and FLW would also be the governing body you ask about. I think the CEO of both pretty much runs it the best way they see fit.

I collect a few checks every year off of local trails, but that doesn't even come close to me thinking I'm a PRO.

What are the two holy grails of BASS? The Classic and AOY, when you can compete for those titles, I'd say you are a touring pro, nothing against FLW, just used the BASS for example.

The Opens are just stepping stones to the Holy Grail, the prize money and titles don't compare to what is up for grabs on the Pro Level.

Again, entry fees are not even close to what a pro pays to fish, so I base it on entry fees.

How many local tours have entries of $1000 or more to fish? In Tx, we have some pretty top notch trails every weekend with boats and prize money up for grabs, but not one comes close to FLW or BASS entry fees.

Matt.

NJfishinGuy reply :

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However, in the real world he is still a Doctor, Lawyer, Welder or whatever.
I think that sums it up, he still has to go in every Monday morning and put his coat on the coat rack next to the desk and do his real job.

i dont think thats right, people can have 2 careers they dont have to be summed up by one. lets say that guy is a ceo of a company but wins the classic he might still make more being a ceo of a huge company but if you win the classic i dont care whos paying more your a pro.

earthworm77 reply :

Like I said earlier, it comes down to what that guy puts on his W-2....that is what he ultimately classifies himself as.

BillyBob reply :

I like George's statement that " Pro is a designated acheivement, not one of income".

We have all seen guys, on the local level, on their home lake that you couldn't beat with a baseball bat ! They spend every spare minute on it, and know it better than they know their wife. Take him to a strange lake, and he skunks! But on that one lake, Kevin Van Dam couldn't beat him, and the level of his acheivement, is Pro-ish to say the least.

Earthworm, nowhere on a W-2 does it state your occupation, only your name, address, and your employers. Nor does it give your occupation on the 1099 misc. from BASS L.L.C., you get at the end of the year, if you cash in a tour event,or several events. Under your guideline, a person never having seen a bass could on his/her schedule 1040 form after he signed it and dated it, write PRO Bass Fisher on the occupation line,and poof make it so. You think the IRS cares ?

Hale reply :

Not to get off subject here:

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Earthworm, nowhere on a W-2 does it state your occupation, only your name, address,

Your occupation is listed on your 1040 forms. You personally list your occupation each year and it does make a difference to the IRS. Especially when they are comparing your income to write-offs, etc.

bshaner:

I have the answer to your question in my head....Im just getting down in words exactly how I want....Ill get back on that one.

Catt reply :

A lot of tournament trails rules state

Pros: A Pro is defined as any angler that has entered more than one bass tournament that required an entry fee greater than $1500

Under this rule I've recently fished against Villis "Bo" Dowden Sr, Harold Allen, & George Gene Jr

Not Pros? :

Low_Budget_Hooker reply :

I thought you were a pro if you had a shirt with a bunch of patches, get 20 % off your rods and had a post in "resumes" about sposurships,no?

Is it about how many girls want to pet your boat?

How about if I have a nitro sticker on my truck?

Maaaan,...I'm NEVER gonna get outta this darn brown truck. ;D

On a real note, great topic.

CATT- I feel your pain, when I was competing in moguls "A" , I was at an amatuer competition in VT called the Bear Mtn Mogul challenge", a yearly event and big spring party. I had a good chance to take it the year before I made pro and the entry form stated, NO U.S. PRO'S

1st and 3rd were won by Canadian Development team members ( pool for olympic team)

BASS fisherman reply :

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I thought you were a pro if you had a shirt with a bunch of patches, get 20 % off your rods and had a post in "resumes" about sposurships,no?

Come on LBH, everyone knows it is spelled sponsership.

senile1 reply :

So here's a wrinkle for all you guys who say that a lawyer who makes most of his income from that pursuit, is not a Pro fisherman if he makes $80,000 a year from it. And a lot of you are hung up on the W2s.

When Michael Jordan was a pro basketball player there were years when he made more money in endorsing products (i.e. doing commercials.) Going by the reasoning above, he wouldn't be a pro basketball player since most of his income came from commercials.

It's all semantics. Michael Jordan was both a pro basketball player and a company spokesperson. The lawyer is both a lawyer and a pro fisherman.

"What's in a name? That which we call a rose By any other word would smell as sweet." (Shakespeare)

Hale reply :

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So here's a wrinkle for all you guys who say that a lawyer who makes most of his income from that pursuit, is not a Pro fisherman if he makes $80,000 a year from it. And a lot of you are hung up on the W2s.
When Michael Jordan was a pro basketball player there were years when he made more money in endorsing products (i.e. doing commercials.) Going by the reasoning above, he wouldn't be a pro basketball player since most of his income came from commercials.

Thats comparing apple and oranges. Take Joe Thomas for example, we all know he is a pro - no argument there, but Im sure he is making a lot more money with Outdoor Channel (Angler on Tour, Ultimate Match Fishing Host, Sponsorship, etc) than he is on the Elite Series. BUT, those things would not be there for him if werent a professional athlete. Its no different for Jordan, Howie Long, John Madden, etc.

After these posts my opinion is that anyone who can provide a living for his family with a fishing pole is a proffesional. Regardless if he is a guide, tournament fisher, product tester, tv host, etc. Now if he has two, three or four other proffesions it doesnt matter....can he provide for a family with just fishing?

As I started this thread with the comment of my surfing, I can say that I was a pro at it in every aspect but one...I surfed two tours full-time, had salary paying sponsors, etc. But I could not provide a living for myself off the income. After expenses and taxes (sponsors dont pay for everything) I was bringing home maybe 25k at the end of the year. So I did have other 'jobs' going on to make things work out right. So my opinion on the pro thing now contradicts what I have lived through.

senile1 reply :

I thought about that when I made the post, Hale. I know that Michael Jordan wouldn't have been able to do commercials if he wasn't a pro basketball player. To me, and it's just my opinion, it doesn't matter. If he is doing both, he is both. It doesn't mattter how he got there. There are a number of examples of people having two occupations. Politicians and laywers, politicians and doctors, politicians and crooks , burger fryers and dishwashers . . . . . . Fred Thompson of Tenessee acted in a number of films while he was a United States Senator, etc, etc, etc. What you are is what you are. The path you took to get there doesn't change what your are.

Ky_Lake_Dude reply :

I love 2 fish thats why.

earthworm77 reply :

I don't work for the IRS but you get the point. 1040-1099 whatever.

Under your guideline, a person never having seen a bass could on his/her schedule 1040 form after he signed it and dated it, write PRO Bass Fisher on the occupation line,and poof make it so. You think the IRS cares ?

Let's be serious here for a minute.....anyone simply doing this for the hell of it is a fool(wannabee) especially since the gov't see's this. So unless a guy is truly a Pro making a living through his fishing, not fishing a few tournaments here and there, he is not a Pro.

this is a pretty good statement.

Okeechobee_Cracker reply :

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when ever i think of pro i think of someone who makes there living off of fishing or at least do it most of the time.

thats how I see it too ......

Matt Fly reply :

Brooks Rogers is a pro, but he failed to make a living at it this year. It doesn't mean he isn't a pro because he failed to make a living at it.

Jimmy Houston is also pro, but failed to make any money at it this year. But he's still an old Pro in my book.

As mentioned before, if you look at some tournament entry forms, a pro is defined by the amount of entry fees he's paid to fish on a trail.

A Pro is defined by the level he has competed at, and that is decided by entry fees solely.

Here is a sample entry form that is designed for amatuers only.

3. This tournament is designed primarily for amateurs, therefore, anyone who has fished 4 or more tournaments within the past 12 months of this tournament with an entry fee over $600 or anyone who has provided guide service for pay within the past 90 days of this official tournament lake, will not be eligible to compete in this tournament.

Matt.

Hale reply :

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Jimmy Houston is also pro, but failed to make any money at it this year. But he's still an old Pro in my book.

There is a thread about Jimmy Houston. I dont know what Brook's deal is, but to say Jimmy Houston didnt make a living this year on fishing is clearly wrong. He didnt make any money on the Elite Series, but is still doing very well for himslef just on endorsements and his TV show....again solely based on the fact that he is a professional.

earthworm77 reply :

A Pro is defined by the level he has competed at, and that is decided by entry fees solely.

Essentially you are telling me that if I go an purchase a "Pro" card for about 100.00 and enter a few tournaments on the "Pro" side, I'm a "Pro"

Definition:

A professional is required to possess a large knowledge derived from extensive academic and practical training. Professional skills are important to the well-being of society. Professions are self-regulating, in that they control the training and evaluation processes that admit new persons to the field. Professionals have autonomy in the workplace; they are expected to utilize their independent judgment in carrying out their professional responsibilities. Finally, professions are regulated by ethical standards.

Typically a professional provides a service in exchange for payment in accordance with established protocols for licensing, ethics, procedures, standards of service and training/certification. However, at all times a professional is cognizant that their first and foremost responsibility is to the public welfare.

The term "professional" is commonly used incorrectly. The distinction between professional sports and amateur sports simply refers to how the athlete is funded. Typically, behaving professionally would indicate that the person's actions remain in accordance with specific rules, written or unwritten, pertaining to behavior, dress, speech, etc. By extension, the adjective professional identified somebody recognized for expertise or skill in a craft or activity.

In narrow usage, not all expertise is considered a profession. Although sometimes referred to as professions, such occupations as skilled construction work are more generally thought of as trades or crafts. The completion of an apprenticeship is generally associated with skilled labor or trades such as carpenter, electrician, plumber, and other similar occupations.

In the strictest sense, the professional fields are limited to accounting, architecture, clergy, engineering, intelligence, law, medicine, and officers.

Looking at some of the things in bold you'll notice that WE consider these guys professional while the better part of society likely does not. Looking at it from the sports side of things, consider the 1980 Gold medal Olympic Hockey team. None of these players were paid to play, unlike the competition they faced. They were true amateurs. Should it be considered that a guy who win's a $10.00 lunker pool is a Pro? I think not. Again I'll rest on what he represents himself to the gov't as his true occuaptional identity. Far too many people throw the word Pro around.

I would suffice to say that a Pro is the whole package. Just because Jimmy didn't will big on '06, his living is made by the fact he was a successful Pro angler. He reaps the benefits of that career to this day and likely until his end.

Matt Fly reply :

Tournament directors don't care what you put on your taxes!!!

They don't care as to what circuits you fished.

Circuits are not defined by name on the entry forms are they?

They are defined by entry fees.

When you pay those $5500.00 entry fees, you are fishing as a pro. Gonna cost you more than a $100.00 bucks to get that pro status.

When you play semi pro baseball, its exactly that, semi pro. You aren't in the bigs until you play on that level.

Brooks is no longer on the Elite tour. He can't how ever, fish our trails in Tx because of that little blurb on 90% of the entry forms,

as per BassChamps, who gives away 20,000 grand for first place no matter of how many entries, which is more than the BFL and TTT, and I say that because they haven't been close to having full fields in TX, so their payouts are never as advertised.

As per BASSChamps

2. Participation/Eligibility: All Bass Champs Tournaments are open to all anglers except Pros: A Pro is defined as any angler that has entered more than one bass tournament that required an entry fee greater than $1500 during 2006-2007 seasons. Any person entering a Bass Champs Tournament under the age of 18 must also have the signature of their parent or legal guardian in the provided space on the official entry form. All contestants are required to have a valid fishing license.

Again, just another trails definition of a pro, and this one limits it to one tourney fished with 1500 or more as a PRO.

That entry fee is only 260.00 by the way, not bad for 20,000 grand for first place and number of entries doesn't matter. They will pay out 25 places with 150 or more, and second place is usually around 3500, down to 600 for last. Thats about 50 grand per tourney and theres 24 events, so BassChamps is one tough circuit.

All tournament directors want each and every guy to show good sportsmanship, but what defines a pro is entry fees.

To what level? I have no clue, There are alot of guys who have money that fish alot of trails, and I consider them to be pros, pros because of their results and the way they carry them selves.

Ike is a pro, but his actions say he is a poor pro at times. I like Ike, he makes it hard to defend him sometimes, and thats another thread.

matt

senile1 reply :

There may be disagreement about what constitutes a professional in the fishing ranks, but I can tell you all one thing. I am an expert at what it takes to be an amateur.

preach4bass reply :

When this question was first posted, I responded by saying I thoght it was subjective. Three pages and 43 posts later I'm convinced that it is subjective! ;D

earthworm77 reply :

Now we are walking a gray line. What you call a pro circuit and what many might envision as a pro circuit is cloudy. I consider the elite of the BASS and FLW the Pro's as it applies to bass fishing. Any other circuit is a lesser level. It is laughable that someone can be considered something based on what they have in their wallet. Sure, a tournament organization can consider its participants "pro's" however, who is recognizing and agreeing with that. As someone said what governing body determines this? If that tournament organisation is not FLW or BASS, does it hold any weight? I doubt it.

A Pro Curcuit tourney director in those elite groups doesn't worry about entry fees. Its all about advertising which is not his responsibility therefore he wants the big name "pros" fishing, not Joe Lunchbox who doesn't draw a crowd.

For a semi pro guy to be playing baseball, he must have some decent skill. For a guy to fish the pro circuit, he must have a decent wallet and doesn't really need any skill to get in. There is a world of difference there. One guy belongs, one guy buys his way in. I'll say it one last time. A pro angler, whether it be a tournament pro, guide etc makes his living off being dedicated to that area of specialization to earn his income.

What happens when a ball player gets sent to the minors for conditioning, is he any less of a pro because the level that he competes against may be less competitive? He doesn't lose his pro status.

Let me ask you a question and I'm not in this discussion to "P" anyone off but how about this. If I had the money to fish the FLW or the Elite series could I? I think not. I believe I would have to earn my way in by qualifying through divisional or regional competition with affiliated programs.........

.......and that is the D-A-M-N difference! You can't buy your way in to a legitimate Pro Curcuit. You cannot buy the title of Pro.

Hale reply :

I 100% agree with that! Buying your way into does not validate you as a pro!

Just this week I was looking at entering the Bassmaster Opens for the 2008 season. I am/was considering doing it as a boater. If I entered this as a boater the tournament would consider me a pro. And im not even close to such a thing. So I could buy my way into this. Just by deciding to pay 1000+ entry fee and bringing my own boat instead of riding shotgun with someone else.

It would be nice to see an actual pro get on here and see what his input is on the whole thing!

earthworm77 reply :

Hale you and I see eye to eye on this. We agree that one must possess a certain level of talent or skill to go along with the PRO moniker. There are many truly good anglers, there are only few elite enough to be classified as the true big boys. Most of us have a day or two here and there to make us think we are good enough but then there are the days we where get "B" slapped back to reality. ;D

George Welcome reply :

It would be tough to find a pro to step up and speak here: it doesn't seem as if anyone can agree on what would qualify one to be a pro.

earthworm77 reply :

George, I'd honestly say you are as close as one could come to being a "Pro". In a different sense of the word, I'd guess you make most if not all of your income through guiding. I have more respect for that because you are out there everyday than a guy who fish' the tour. You have to make it happen everyday.

Hale reply :

We can all agree that George is definitely a professional....but come on George your street cred is fading by hanging with the likes of Don WWF...

Catt reply :

There are tournament trails that cater to Pro anglers by making certain rules about entry fees as the way of defining what a Pro angler is. This rule allows the Pro to enter an Amateur/Semi Pro tournament; however does not insure a win for the Pro; I compare this to a Nextel Cup driver in a Busch race. Is it fair to the Amateur/Semi Pro angler? Personally it doesn't bother me because I both beaten and have been beaten by these anglers.

As far the comments about buying your way into the Pro rankings let's examine farther earthworms post. Since hurricanes Katrina/Rita there are thousands of new construction companies but just because some one can swing a hammer does not make him a carpenter.

Oh by the way the IRS could care less what you put under occupation on your tax forms, their only concern is your gross income and the percentage your paid towards income tax.

zimmy reply :

the way i look at it is pro= paycheck

amateur well not much money but i can catch a lot of fish all across the usa and it cost me the support in fun. i'm a professional salesman because thats what i get paid to do! doesn't matter if i work for the largest firm or for a company that has only 2 stores. same as fishing doesn't matter what or who as long as i am making my living from fishing. be it fishing small torneys across usa or fishing the flw. guides are hired to take customers to fish,therefore they are professional fisherman. people selling fishing tackle ;boats or anything else fishing related are salesman! just my 2 cents zimmy 8-)

earthworm77 reply :

Since hurricanes Katrina/Rita there are thousands of new construction companies but just because some one can swing a hammer does not make him a carpenter.

100% accurate

Zimmy, how much money? The $10.00 lunker pool is a far cry from the 250K at MegaBucks. I'd hardly consider anything under 50K 1st place payout as Pro level money. However, I'm not classifying a "Pro" by the events he fishes based on the purse.

I would classify the trail he fishes as "Pro" level though if and only if it is a credible cicuit. Now there is this talk about paying a Pro entry fee. If you make competitive Bass fishing your career and do it on a weekly basis fishing the tour and following it around the country, you do the speaking engagements, videos, shows etc you are a Pro Tournament Angler. If you are a guy who works a regular job as a contractor during the week and fishes a couple of tournaments throughout the year on the Pro side....you are a contractor who fishes an occassional Pro tournament, You are not a Professional Tournament Fisherman!

If entering a tournament under the Pro side of it makes you a Pro(in your mind) for that tournament, we can debate this till the end of time, call yourselves whatever you want to be called. But consider your group of peers.....the guys fishing the Elite 50 events are not among them, they are the true Pro's.

Catt, You are right, the tax man only wants his money, just like the tournament organizer. My point about the IRS is that the guy claiming taxes must classify himself as something. I'd guess most are truthful and if they are contractors, that is likely the classification they likely put down. There are more write offs on a yearly basis.

In my opinion, it is absurd that anyone can with a straight face consider themselves a Pro based on the amount of money they spend to enter an event. I'm not talking about the FLW or BASS events. I'm talking about all of these other cicuits who feel it necessary to make up some definition of what a Pro classification is. You might be a Pro to them because they cash your checks however, methinks that you have to earn the right to fish in the more credible, elite competitions and they are not open to you merely because you can pay the fee. To be a Professional in any trade or craft, there is a degree of skill that you need to have that exceeds the skill of the masses. It sets you apart from the common man. There are only a handful of guys who have that ability and they are truly the Pro's.

Catt reply :

Professional by definition

A: participating for gain or livelihood in an activity or field of endeavor often engaged in by amateurs <a professional golfer>

B: having a particular profession as a permanent career <a professional soldier>

C: engaged in by persons receiving financial return <professional football>

It appears by the definition everyone is correct

Hale reply :

Heres a thought for the trounament side of it: Regular joe's, weekend warriors, etc WIN money at their events whereas the true pro EARNS his money at events. So with that said, finances EARNED would make you a professional and finances WON make you lucky.

zimmy reply :

HEY EARTHWORM

WE CAN ALL KEEP GOING AROUND AN AROUND ABOUT THIS SUBJECT AND THERE IS PROBALLY MORE THAN ONE RIGHT AN WRONG ANSWER. SO LETS JUST GO FISHING (PRO OR AMATUER)

Matt Fly reply :

The things that make a pro, a pro, is not seen or asked about on the entry form.

I agree that their are guys who can pay the money and are not pros. Whos arguing that point?

Byron Velvick did not go thru a season of qualifing events to earn the pro spot. He got lucky and happened to be in the right spot at the right time with the needed money to fill needed spots for 2006.

Now for the 2007 season of the Elite, you had to qualify for, and Byron failed badly.

By the rules of lesser trails, and these lesser trails come from all walks of life, the rules of most define a pro by their past 12 months of entry fees. He is considered a pro by what he fished, and what he paid. Its not our fault he gambled and went pro is it?

Why the need for such a rule? Its gives the true amatuers a chance to compete with like skilled anglers. Not jack potters or pros.

I recognize the BASS Elite series and the FLW tour as the only two pro trails out there, the rest in my book are semi pro trails used for qualifing and stepping stones.

To protect our "LITTLE" trails in Tx, we have thousands of guys who have BASS and FLW experience. I don't know about others, but having Kelly Jordan, T. Omari, Brooks Rogers, Richard McCarty, and 100 other pros from the Fork area would be no fun watching these guys win most events in our areas when they are for amatuers. Or the other half of the guides who are fishing a BFL or BASS weekend series.

Thus the little statement on 95% of all entry forms around the country. It keeps our amatuer tourneys open to amatuers only.

Notice not one entry form I posted said $5500.00, they are less than that, they are talking pro to semi pro tours, and again, it just ensures that an amatuer trail is just that.

I am sorry that the entry forms don't have the questions to clearify the moniker that yall seek for approval of who is pro or is not pro material.

You can start a thread that is called, " What makes a pro a true Professional?" and all the character points mentioned would be valid as for "What makes you a Pro?"

But as it stands now, the only way for a Tournament Director to know if all his contestants are amatuers is the little blurb on entry fees paid in the last 12 months.

hookem

matt

earthworm77 reply :

Matt, I hear you.

What makes a pro a true Professional This statement is pretty much how I interpreted the original post. I've been in the industry for about 15years as a writer, custom tackle shop owner and thru competition. I've cashed checks and done well on smaller cicuits. I run around for my sponsors, I do seminars, TV, write articles and books and even shoot videos and I guided in NY. I however, despite earning an income from the things I do in the industry, wouldn't consider myself a Pro.

Agreed about Velvick!

Catt reply :

What makes you a Pro is when you are characterized by your subordinates as conforming to the technical & ethical standards of your profession. This is accomplished by exhibiting a courteous, conscientious, and generally businesslike manner in the workplace.

14112

What makes you PRO? 2024

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