The Spawn - Temperature Or Time? 2024
flyingmonkie reply :
I've been questioning this lately, and a few posts tonight have given me the urge to ask. When it comes to the bass spawn, which is more important: water temp, or time of year?
As with most of you, we've had an unusually late winter and cold spring here. Regardless, days are still getting longer. I'd be hardpressed to find water in 60s, but blooming dogwoods are everywhere. In off season's such as this, will bass follow nature's other cues, or will they wait?
J Francho reply :
Everything else could be right, but if the temps aren't there, they won't spawn.
BuffaloBass716 reply :
I'm no expert, but I'd say temperature has everything to do with when the bass will spawn and so on. Colder water that is below average for a certain part of the year will slow everything and delay what the bass are doing. (the great lakes are still dealing with ice breaking up)
McAlpine reply :
Time.
Temp just puts them where you can see them spawn.
They haven't made it several million years by not procreating just because the water is off a few degrees.
J Francho reply :
There's no point in them procreating if the temp is off. The eggs need to be within range to be viable. I've seen spawns as early as April, and as late as mid July. Different lakes will be at different states - pre to post - depending on temps.
Catt reply :
It's way more than temperature! 
J Francho reply :
I agree, Catt. But temps gotta be in the ballpark first. Especially in northern climes. Pick a water, and get on it twice a week. You'll almost be able to predict it.
Mainebass1984 reply :
Temperature is very important here in New England.
tholmes reply :
On 4/8/2014 at 11:43 AM, J Francho said:There's no point in them procreating if the temp is off. The eggs need to be within range to be viable. I've seen spawns as early as April, and as late as mid July. Different lakes will be at different states - pre to post - depending on temps.
I agree. While temperature isn't the only factor, it is, by far, the most important factor. Bass (and other fish) won't spawn until the water is warm enough for the eggs to survive and hatch.
Tom
Catt reply :
The female will not lay her eggs regardless of temperature until those eggs are mature.
There is no single determining factor, temperature is something we can track giving us an idea of when the spawn will the take place.
J Francho reply :
Many do not lay eggs at all. According to DEC biologists up here, 75-80% of adult bass don't spawn.
BassWhole! reply :
Its all about the temperature, but the temperature is directly and/or indirectly related to several other factors, which are in turn related. So to try to separate them and view them individually, doesn't make sense. Most fish have a narrow band of temperatures where they will spawn.
Catt reply :
It is not uncommon to gave a warming thrend in late February or early March that warms the SURFACE TEMPERATURE well into the 60s and yet the female does not drop her egg. Why?
J Francho reply :
Bass do not spawn at the surface.
BradGuenette reply :
Definitely water temp last year up here on the St.Lawrence we had bass on beds June 30th,This year if things keep going the way they are they will still be there well into July.
Mainebass1984 reply :
On 4/8/2014 at 10:03 PM, Catt said:It is not uncommon to gave a warming thrend in late February or early March that warms the SURFACE TEMPERATURE well into the 60s and yet the female does not drop her egg. Why?
I don't think you can compare bass spawning in the deep south to California or any northern state. In February and March everything is still covered in ice up here. We wont see a stable water temperature of 60 degrees in the first layer of the water column until very late May and early June. This coincides with the eggs becoming mature. There are many factors that dictate when they will spawn. That being said every year on the exact same day I go to a specific pond in Maine and catch Smallmouth on beds, and there will be three fish on each bed, two males and one female.
This is a great example of a slight difference in bass behavior based on the region you live in.
On 4/8/2014 at 9:23 PM, J Francho said:Many do not lay eggs at all. According to DEC biologists up here, 75-80% of adult bass don't spawn.
That is pretty amazing. The survival rates of bass fry must be very, very good and it must be water body specific. In a small body of water you would have difficulty supporting a decent bass population with very little reproduction. Is there an online report I could check out ? Very interesting stuff.
Catt reply :
On 4/8/2014 at 10:08 PM, J Francho said:Bass do not spawn at the surface.
Why we reading surface temperature?
The answer to my question is the eggs aint ready.
Brian Needham reply :
On 4/8/2014 at 10:42 PM, Mainebass1984 said:
The survival rates of bass fry must be very, very good and it must be water body specific.
I thought I have read the mortaility rate is very, very high, upwards to like 80% or so....... can someone verify or bunk this?
Mainebass1984 reply :
On 4/8/2014 at 10:47 PM, Brian Needham said:I thought I have read the mortaility rate is very, very high, upwards to like 80% or so....... can someone verify or bunk this?
About 80 % of eggs will hatch. Then with in the next few weeks there will be another die off, first feeding die off. Predators certainly take there toll within the next few weeks. Few will survive to adult hood and there first spawn.
Yes mortality is usually very high. If 75-80% of adults don't spawn in the body of water that Franco's DEC report was conducted on then either that body of water has a very high rate of fry reaching adulthood or it is a very large body of water.
rbreedi1 reply :
Amount of daylight puts them in place , water temp will get it started. Some spawn earlier than others. They all dont spawn at the same time, its just natures way of ensuring survival of the species. Things could happen like a cold snap or water drawn down that could kill off many young or eggs. If they all spawned at the same time, a complete year class could be lost.
WRB reply :
Bass will abort the spawn and do if the water temps are not warm enough when the eggs are fully formed. The problem with cold water is the eggs will not hatch or take too long to hatch. The temps we post 62-67 for LMB are average for the majority of the bass population, not a absolute range.
Nature being what it is isn't exact, some bass don't spawn, some may spawn in the fall.
Tom
slimshad reply :
KVD has a blog on Bassmaster.com. He says its more about the length of day and moon phase. Temp isn't as big of a factor. If you click on his blogs it will show up on the right side. I think he is pretty smart?! The article is "It's not all about temp"
Brian Needham reply :
I got old time locals that swear by the March full moon, and I dont discount that.
BUT, a bass aint laying eggs in 50 degree water, I dont care what the moon says. thats my opinion.
it is a big combo of moon, photo lenght, and temp and water level (if in tidal or river system)
slimshad reply :
KVD says upper 40s degree in article lol
Brian Needham reply :
LMAO....... I could be wrong, it just doesnt seem right though..... upper 40s seems maybe on the curve of a smallmouth. but upper 40s seems awlful cold for incubation.
I dont doubt for a bit they will begin to move up then, but to lay eggs in that cold of water, that will be a new one to me.
I defer to Catt, and WRB... I'll take their word for it over just about anybody.
Brian Needham reply :
just read the blog....... seems like his main point was they will be moved up move than some people might expect because of day lenght.
and the bass will come in and out, waiting for the stable warmth to get bedded down..... sure he did say he has seen on bed fish in upper 40's, but that is an execption not the rule.
KVD was hammering home something I have heard CATT say before.... "it starts before you think it does"
Catt reply :
My question when the subject of temperature comes up is what about power plant lakes that stay above 60 or creeks that never ever see 60.
J Francho reply :
Those are unusual circumstances the weren't part of the original question. It's like answering the question of where bass spawn. They like a hard bottom. Where do they soawn when there's no hard bottom? The next best place. In less than ideal circumstances, the spawn using the other cues, cues secondary to water temperature. Just look at Florida or Mexico. Those fish spawn when the water cools.
Mainebass1984 reply :
On 4/8/2014 at 10:47 PM, Brian Needham said:I thought I have read the mortaility rate is very, very high, upwards to like 80% or so....... can someone verify or bunk this?
A friend of mine that works for US fish and wildlife emailed me a study on largemouth bass survival on the Housatanic River and Three mile pond. Very interesting stuff. Bass survival from egg to swim varied from nest to nest a high of 68 % with a low of 28 %. Then after 15 days post swim up survival was 19-25 %. Not all fish completely spawned. There were several females that spawned only a portion of the eggs they developed. One female didn't spawn at all. Very interesting stuff. I realize this is only one specific case involving two bodies of water in New England. I am sure there is regional differences in success rate and from nest to nest as well as from pond to pond. If only 19-25 % survived until 15 days post swim up of the 28-68 % that originally swam up then you can surmise that the number of surviving bass is quite low. Not covered in this specific study but, in New England 15 -30 % of the remaining young of the year will survive their first winter.
Bassguytom reply :
There was a local study here done on 2 similar lakes. On the first lake they just observed the water temp., moon phase and length of day. On the 2nd lake the biologist placed an underwater speaker system in the water and played some Barry White. It was observed that every fish spawned in the 2nd lake that season. Go figure.
Brian Needham reply :
thanks for posting that maine basser!
Brian Needham reply :
On 4/9/2014 at 9:37 AM, Bassguytom said:There was a local study here done on 2 similar lakes. On the first lake they just observed the water temp., moon phase and length of day. On the 2nd lake the biologist placed an underwater speaker system in the water and played some Barry White. It was observed that every fish spawned in the 2nd lake that season. Go figure.
just cant get enough of yo love baby! eh?
Catt reply :
On 4/9/2014 at 9:08 AM, J Francho said:Those are unusual circumstances the weren't part of the original question. It's like answering the question of where bass spawn. They like a hard bottom. Where do they soawn when there's no hard bottom? The next best place. In less than ideal circumstances, the spawn using the other cues, cues secondary to water temperature. Just look at Florida or Mexico. Those fish spawn when the water cools.
Or temperature aint all that!
Lund Explorer reply :
FYI -
I know this is supposed to be about LMB, but in my mind a fish is a fish and this information may provide a little food for thought. The following are parts of a posting made on another outdoors forum. The poster is a Michigan DNR fisheries employee discussing when they will harvest walleyes during their spawning run on the Muskegon River. The MDNR harvests eggs and milt to use for their stocking programs throughout the rest of the state. Several MDNR employees post regularly on this forum, and the main reason for this post was to warn steelhead fishermen to be aware of the potential danger near the electro-fishing boat.
We are tentatively scheduled to check walleye for ripeness Monday March 31st. We will be shocking between Croton and Pine Street access. What we find then will dictate what date the egg take begins. Thanks again for all your cooperation. Below is the press release for this year.
Mike Wilson
DNR Fisheries
Plainwell
The DNR plans to collect walleyes with an electro-fishing boat beginning as early as the week of March 24 and concluding by April 15. Eight days of fish collections are planned during this period. The actual date when collections will begin depends on water temperatures and the presence of ripe fish. This schedule can change on a daily basis for many reasons, but it is anticipated most work will be completed during the last week of March through the second week of April.
We spawned 75 pairs of walleye today. About 75% of the females were green so it looked like we hit the beginning of the run which is what we aim for. Temperature peaked at 35.5 today on the USGS site so the water is still quite cold. Photoperiod also plays a role in spawning time so the temperature isn't the only factor dictating spawning time. We are planning another egg take Tues 4/8 and tentatively 4/9 and 4/14. As always, the run dictates our schedule so I will update after each days egg take. Like last week, we did see a decent number of steelhead, but only a handful of fresh fish seen. Only saw one steelhead landed today as we were shocking which is unusually low during the egg take. We will probably start shocking around 9am at Croton. As usual, we try to do all our shocking between Croton and Pine Street. I will update after tomorrows egg take.
Thanks,
Mike Wilson
MDNR Plainwell Fisheries
Please note the "red" portions of these posts.
Somewhere in the history of this other forum is a similar prior year notice of the MDNR's harvest when a much warmer than normal year had them on the river where they completed the entire harvest prior to the normal starting date.
Catt reply :
Temperature
Ripe Fish
Photoperiod
5 Dollar Fishing Game reply :
Temps have to be right. Any fluctuations in the temps may deter their timing, but for incubation and blood flow and activity purposes, temps are everything.
Catt reply :
On 4/9/2014 at 11:14 PM, 5 Dollar Fishing Game said:Temps have to be right. Any fluctuations in the temps may deter their timing, but for incubation and blood flow and activity purposes, temps are everything.
Surface temps change rapidly, at 2', 4', 6' not so fast.
Dwight Hottle reply :
On 4/9/2014 at 6:56 PM, Catt said:Temperature
Ripe Fish
Photoperiod
X2 When those three elements coincide its game on.
CDMeyer reply :
I would have to say it is a certain time..... but once it its that time it ahs to hit a certain temp, 54 in southern states and 59 in northern states for the bass to begin to spawn
So I guess both, get to a certain time of the year, the start prowling then hit the right temp and they spawn..... or
Get the temps and they start prowling and once ya hit the time of year the spawn
flyingmonkie reply :
Just wanted to say thanks to all of you - what a great debate! I've been out all week and was presently surprised to see so much discussion. I love it when things aren't black and white. 
WRB reply :
Sometimes the spawn cycle goes off like clockwork, the weather warms in a steady manner, the water column warms, the ecosystem is stable. This isn't one of those years out west. 6 weeks ago my local lake was about a week away from the spawn based on males selecting bed sites, females cruising. 2 weeks of colder than normal nights in the low 40's and days in the mid 50's dropped the water temps about 5 degrees, the bass pulled back and dropped down into 15 to 20 depth, no shallow bass anywhere. The only thing that changed was water temps, the bass were ready.
This week the water I has returned to the low 60's and the bass are back, spawn should begin any time now.
The eggs were ripe, the length of day was right 6 weeks ago, the water temps changed...spawn changed.
IF we get another long cold spell, we may not have a good spawn this year, this has happened in the past where nearly the entire year class is lost from cold weather....and some of you still think temperature is a minor factor!
With the warm weather we have now both the early first wave of spawner's join the second wave and a massive group of bed fish share the same bed sites, good for sight fishing, not so good on the bass population in our small clear water lakes.
Yes the bass need developed eggs to lay, longer days help warm the water, if the water temps are not right, poor spawn can result.
Tom
Scott F reply :
I'm surprised no one here brought up the full moon. I never believed the moon had any effect on the spawn but I've seen other discussions where they thought the bass spawned on the full moon.
WRB reply :
Full moon is a big factor, the first wave of spawner's almost always coincides with a full moon cycle.On 4/14/2014 at 1:48 AM, Scott F said:I'm surprised no one here brought up the full moon. I never believed the moon had any effect on the spawn but I've seen other discussions where they thought the bass spawned on the full moon.
Tom
Scott F reply :
Explain how a purely visual phenomenom can affect the spawn. The only difference between a full moon and a new moon is the light that is reflected off of it. If it is cloudy will the full moon start the spawn?
WRB reply :
www.moonconnection.com/tides.phtmlOn 4/14/2014 at 2:01 AM, Scott F said:Explain how a purely visual phenomenom can affect the spawn. The only difference between a full moon and a new moon is the light that is reflected off of it. If it is cloudy will the full moon start the spawn?
Scott F reply :
Yeah, I get the moon's gravitational effect on something as large as an ocean. Even then, there are still tides outside of the full moon even though they might be smaller. In a lake even as big as Lake Michigan or Superior, the tides are so small that they are barely measurable. In a normal lake the effect is a lot smaller. Your boat has more of a gravitational pull on a bass than the moon does. Again the gravitational pull of the moon is always present and the difference of that pull between the moon phases on a body of water smaller than an ocean is beyond miniscule.
Another thing. If the spawn was influenced by the full moon, how is it that the spawn on the lakes does not all happen at the same time? In the lakes I fish during pre-spawn in Northern Wisconsin, some lakes being smaller and shallower are ALWAYS a week or so ahead of the larger deeper lakes. The main difference being the water temperature.
If the moon has any effect on fish, the most pronounced time when the moon's pull is the strongest/weakest is when the moon is directly overhead or when it is on the other side of the earth. This lends itself to the solunar tables that predict the best and worst times to fish.
bigbill reply :
I try to keep an eye on the water temp somewhat. I fish everyday anyway. When the spawn happens and when the bass do come off the beds they are really hungry.
For many years I was fishing by the mauri charts in the outdoor life magazine. They no longer off it.
I caught my BP of 10# when the charts said good early. These charts go by the moon phases. You need to adjust the charts to your time frame and where you live is what I mean.
Fish by the moon phases if your trophy hunting or trying to break a record. Believe it or not the more time your line is in the water the better chance you have.
The guys at fisherman did a show on fishing by the moon to catch record breaking fish.
WRB reply :
Nothing in nature is absolute, these animals have evolved and the ones that survive continue the species.
The spawn is an act that continues the bass species, not all are successful. The misconception that all bass spawn at the same time or that a female bass only lays it's eggs in one nest is false. If all the bass spawned at the same time and females deposited all their eggs in one nest site any catastrophic event could end the species. The fact bass are in your lakes should prove they are successful at procreation. The fact bass are limited in latitude where the water doesn't warm above 50 degrees should make it clear that water temperature is important.
Believe whatever you are comfortable with. The moon has no affect on the spawn, water temps don't matter...whatever.
Tom
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