Some thoughts on Bass Fishing 2024

Catt reply :

I understand that bass fishing is not an exact science

I establish what I believe to be truths & the bass prove its all lies

About the time I think I have the bass figured out the bass prove I don't

All this talk about color, rods, reels, boats, moon phases, can a bass see my line ect is just interesting information

So I simply go fishing any time I can, using the techniques I have confidence in, & I let the chips fall where they may.

Gotta Love It reply :

Amen to that!

alhuff reply :

I second that AMEN!!!!!

Alfred

cajun1977. reply :

exactly ive got a couple guys im gettin into bassin and they are always asking me if this and that will work,and i just tell em ahything will work anytime and can possibly catch anything theres no rules in bass fishing. just theories, which are always proven to be untrue

ValleyBoy reply :

Just when you feel as though you have the game figured out, they change the rules on you don't they? Conversely. just when it seems as though you outta sell your gear and start accordian lessons...you catch your limit. ;D Bass.......the crack of the outdoors!

Alpster reply :

Quote
I understand that bass fishing is not an exact science
I establish what I believe to be truths & the bass prove its all lies

About the time I think I have the bass figured out the bass prove I don't

All this talk about color, rods, reels, boats, moon phases, can a bass see my line ect is just interesting information

So I simply go fishing any time I can, using the techniques I have confidence in, & I let the chips fall where they may.

That's about the size of it.

Ronnie

guest reply :

Quote
I understand that bass fishing is not an exact science

Thank God!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

-badhabit- reply :

I'm just a Florida Cracker that's been set my own ways pretty well for a long time.

All of this dropshot that, finesse this, & swimbait culture crap may work fine for some people. But just give me a bag of worms with a few hooks and I'll bring back big fish.

Like my bumper sticker says = "We don't care how you do it up north!"

Needemp reply :

I have to take the other side on this one. I do agree what you are saying if you just fish for fun. I disagree if you truly want to be the best. Can't tell me that Rick Clunn, KVD, Bill Dance, etc. are just really lucky. There is a lot more to it than just being interesting.

jdw174 reply :

I gotta agree with the original poster. Although I have a couple of small boxes in the boat with the proper gear for dropshotting and shakeyheadin', I've had limited success with the first and none with the second. My time on water is limited so I don't really want to experiment.....I just wanna catch FISH 8-) Soooo, I normally tie on what works for me and just leave it at that. I might change colors, but that's about it.

Catt reply :

Ok here we go Rick Clunn, KVD, Bill Dance, etc. are not gods they have bad days just like the rest of us. They go fishing any time they can, using the techniques they have confidence in, fish area they believe hold fish & they let the chips fall where they may.

It's like when a customer comes in to Academy asking to see a Fish Finder, I tell them they are on aisle 3, they say no the are not they are behind me on the self. I then say no sir that's depth finders; a fish finder is what you tie to the end of your line.

You can't turn one of those on and it'll go find a fish; but that worm, spinner bait, or jig can

guest reply :

I want to compliment Catt for posting a thread with "thoughts" in it.

Seriously

captbob reply :

You guys that are having so much fun fishing the simple "chips" way are spoiling all the fun Tackle Advertisers are having trying to catch Fishermen.

CB-FL Keys & N.Y.

Needemp reply :

Quote
Ok here we go Rick Clunn, KVD, Bill Dance, etc. are not gods they have bad days just like the rest of us. They go fishing any time they can, using the techniques they have confidence in, fish area they believe hold fish & they let the chips fall where they may.
It's like when a customer comes in to Academy asking to see a Fish Finder, I tell them they are on aisle 3, they say no the are not they are behind me on the self. I then say no sir that's depth finders; a fish finder is what you tie to the end of your line.

You can't turn one of those on and it'll go find a fish; but that worm, spinner bait, or jig can

To say they have bad days is very misleading. Of course they have bad days. The difference is that all their bad days in a year don't equal as many bad days as we have in a year. And they fish a lot more than us. Your statement implies that these guys have more luck than skill. Statements like "All this talk about color, rods, reels, boats, moon phases, can a bass see my line ect is JUST interesting information". Implying that it has no bearing on success. And your quote "You can't turn one of those on and it'll go find a fish..." Brother, take a look at some of these 'gods' and listen to them tell you how vital their electronics are at helping them find FISH at times. It takes a level of intelligence that is above most people. Just because we don't have the ability to analyse at their level doesn't mean we have to try to bring them down to our level. I can't say that Albert Pujols is just getting out there and swinging for the fences and "letting the chips fall where they may!" That guy works hard, has more intelligence than most, and knows what it takes. So it is with Clunn, KVD, Dance, etc. We just disagree and there is nothing wrong with that. Have a good day Catt

-badhabit- reply :

The majority of the "stars" you mentioned are what I would call "schooler" fishermen which is way different from big bass fishermen. They depend on catching mass numbers of fish first and size second (or a bonus).

Most of the people I grew up respecting were local FL fishermen who's name you prob never heard. But most of them prob caught and thew back more double digit fish in 1 year than most of those named will catch in their lifetimes.

A tournament fisherman and a big bass fisherman is a different breed. Although a few have crossed that line.

I would rather catch 1 double digit fish than 20 - 5 lb'ers. Of course you would have to adjust the weights to your location. There are some very good big bass fishermen up north where in some places a 7 lb'er = a 12 lb'er here in FL. I respect & salute those big bass fishermen for their abilities in fishing wherever they may be and for being one of the odds beaters.

Catt reply :

KVD's life time stats on the Bass Master tournament trail

Total Entries: 190

Total Weight: 6,453 lbs 11 ozs

190 events times three days per event equals 570 days; divide total weight of 6454 lbs by 570 days equals 11.32 lbs per day. 11.32 lbs per day divided by 5 fish limit equals a 2.264 lb average.

Catt's stats for 2007

Total days on the water: 17

Big Bass caught 9 lbs 11 oz, 9 lbs 14 oz, 10.061 lbs, 10.37 lbs, 11 lbs 3 oz, & 12 lbs 8 oz

Catt's Stats for 2006

Total Bass Caught: 1056

Total days on the water: 66

Average daily catch: 16

Yea I simply go fishing any time I can, using the techniques I have confidence in, & I let the chips fall where they may.

The Largemouth Herald reply :

I've been fishing club tournaments and local tournaments for over 20 years in Florida. I like to try new things, but what I found to be the most important thing in catching bass is the time you spend on the water. If I fish the same lake every weekend, I will likely do well on that lake if I fish a tournament. Again, the more time you spend on a lake, the more successful you will be. That goes not only fishing there often on weekends, but fishing it regularly through the seasons from year to year. So my experience is that the more time you spend on a particular body of water, the better you will do!

-badhabit- reply :

Quote
KVD's life time stats on the Bass Master tournament trail
Total Entries: 190

Total Weight: 6,453 lbs 11 ozs

190 events times three days per event equals 570 days; divide total weight of 6454 lbs by 570 days equals 11.32 lbs per day. 11.32 lbs per day divided by 5 fish limit equals a 2.264 lb average.

Catt's stats for 2007

Total days on the water: 17

Big Bass caught 9 lbs 11 oz, 9 lbs 14 oz, 10.061 lbs, 10.37 lbs, 11 lbs 3 oz, & 12 lbs 8 oz

Catt's Stats for 2006

Total Bass Caught: 1056

Total days on the water: 66

Average daily catch: 16

Yea I simply go fishing any time I can, using the techniques I have confidence in, & I let the chips fall where they may.

Salute to you for a Great year! (so far and more to go)

I've caught 17 over 8 lbs in April and May (so far) this year myself. The number keeps going up but may end there because I play another pro sport and have an event next weekend I have to get ready for

I use the KISS method and do the best I can with what I have. I'm not a great fisherman but I do put my heart in it.

(KISS - keep it simple stupid)

Needemp reply :

Quote
KVD's life time stats on the Bass Master tournament trail
Total Entries: 190

Total Weight: 6,453 lbs 11 ozs

190 events times three days per event equals 570 days; divide total weight of 6454 lbs by 570 days equals 11.32 lbs per day. 11.32 lbs per day divided by 5 fish limit equals a 2.264 lb average.

Catt's stats for 2007

Total days on the water: 17

Big Bass caught 9 lbs 11 oz, 9 lbs 14 oz, 10.061 lbs, 10.37 lbs, 11 lbs 3 oz, & 12 lbs 8 oz

Catt's Stats for 2006

Total Bass Caught: 1056

Total days on the water: 66

Average daily catch: 16

Yea I simply go fishing any time I can, using the techniques I have confidence in, & I let the chips fall where they may.

Catt, I respect you are a good fisherman. But i have to say that I am disappointed you would leave so many facts out of your argument when you are trying to prove your point(unless you are not trying to prove a point). First off, all you have is KVDs 5 keepers per tournament day. That does not count all that he has culled. It does not count the practice time put on the water. It does not count the non-keepers(which I suspect you figured in your totals). KVD's career stats do not compare well with your 2006 stats. I also noticed that you did not state any of the big bass KVD has caught, but you listed yours from this year. I fail to see the argument you are making.

Also, and most people might not agree, I do not think that big bass hunters are as skilled as a tourney fisherman. It's just my opinion, but I respect the guys on tour more than any other fisherman. That does not mean that big bass hunters are not skilled. It's just a different type of fishing. I compare it to baseball. Anybody can say their buddy in the minor leagues is a better baseball player than someone that is in the major leagues, but if it were true, then they would be in the majors. The same as fisherman. A lot of fisherman are supposedly "better than those so-called pros". But if that were true, then they would be there. There are a lot of fisherman that can fish a lake or two, or even three or four in their own region very very very well. But take them and put them on a lake in a different part of the country that they have never fished and say, "you got less than a week to figure it out, go due as well in three or four days like the best of the best can". I bet it wouldn't happen. There are good "LAKE" fisherman, those that figure a couple of lakes out and that's it, and there are good "BASS" fisherman, those that can catch bass anywhere anytime. Just my opinion

PS This is my last possible post till Monday night CATT, so I won't be able to post. Have a good Memorial day weekend.

Stringjam reply :

Interesting............

Colors, boats, moon phases, line diameters, and lure mojo are just another facet of the sport that (for some) add another level of enjoyment (the tinkerers, if you will) - and (for others) detract from it.

Both groups dig their approach, I'm sure. I dig mine.

National tournament fishermen, local tournament fishermen, weekend anglers, big bass hunters, guys who like Moon Pies and RC Cola, etc.etc.

I do, however, don't see any need for one group to condecend the other.......there's more than one way to enjoy the pursuit.

FWIW.....I'm sure KVD, Denny Brauer, etc would have substantially different "statistics" if they were fishing the home waters they knew like the back of their hands, as opposed to a spread of lakes they may or may not have much familiarity with.......but I digress.

Interesting post, Catt .... I dig "thought" posts.

-badhabit- reply :

Needemp - Most of that arguement doesn't hold much water.

1) Most people do not desire or could spend 200+ days a year fishing the tournament trail.

2) Most people probably make more money working than the average person on the trail.

3) 99% of the tournament trail fishermen either hire a guide (or local) to show them around a new lake, spend time with locals finding out what's working & where, or they have spent time on the lake before. Very few have gone to lakes without some type of info. WE now live in the internet age where info on any subject or place is just a click away.

Fishing for big fish is an art all to itself and takes a lot more time on any lake to master. But I have faith in myself and believe I have the experience to fish any body of water in FL (and have fished hundreds of lakes, ponds, and rivers) very effectively. The only tournament I ever entered I won (only 40 boats though).

I have all of the respect in the world for the ones who have made it to the big shows on the tournament trail and had the drive to do so. But like I said before it is a "different breed" of fishermen and saying one is better than the other is not possible. Guides are pros that have to produce a lot of fish to even establish a name and have to keep doing so to keep it.

There is no apples & oranges to this because the goals are not the same. The only thing the two have in common is the prey they seek & the water.

20 years ago before bass fishing became the "cool" thing to do the fishermen on the trail were way better rounded in my opinion. When I watch now it's like a bunch of "Inspector Gadgets" running around the lakes....lol

But this is just the .02 of a hick that loves to fish and as long as you are enjoying what you do it's all good

Needemp reply :

Quote
Needemp - Most of that argument doesn't hold much water.
1) Most people do not desire or could spend 200+ days a year fishing the tournament trail.

2) Most people probably make more money working than the average person on the trail.

3) 99% of the tournament trail fishermen either hire a guide (or local) to show them around a new lake, spend time with locals finding out what's working & where, or they have spent time on the lake before. Very few have gone to lakes without some type of info. WE now live in the Internet age where info on any subject or place is just a click away...

If you don't think my argument holds water, then lets look at your reasons why you think that. 1) You don't have to desire to be on the water 200+ days. If you are that good at figuring out bass on any lake, you will know it and more than likely give a shot at Federation or something like that. In this sport, if you are that good, you can advance based on success. You just work your way up the ladder based on performance. 2) I never implied anything about money. You can't put those words in my mouth. To me it's about the glory. It's about being the best. 3) I guess believing that locals and guides are what the pros rely on brings them closer to our level in our minds. That's BS! They have an uncanny ability to put the pieces of the puzzle together. It's their gut that they use for success. On-the-water adjustments. An educated-instinct. Are they successful all the time, no. But they are successful more times than those competing against them. I do agree they get info from the Internet, but they can't rely on it for their success.

Catt reply :

Actually I did leave out some stats

KVD stat are for 18 yrs

Catt's stats are for only 17 months

Another point you're missing is I have fished against many of these Pros, in 1974 I belonged two bass clubs whose members included John Torian, John Hall, John Dean, Villis P "Bo" Dowden SR, Harold Allen, Lonnie Stanley, Larry Nixon, Tommy Martin, & Zell Roland.

Since then I've fished in & won tournament against the likes of George Jeane Sr & George Jeane Jr of Evans, LA; David Truax of Beaumont, TX; Mike Metcalf of Center, TX; Mike Bono Sr and Mike Bono Jr of Lake Charles, La; Dickey Newberry Houston, TX; John Gunnels from Kingwood, Tx

Yea I only fish Toledo Bend but I know far a fact the Bass Master & FLW fish the same lake over & over. The pros don't just go into a new lake cold, example in 2001 the first year KVD ever seen Toledo Bend he was on the lake for over a month prior to the tournament start. Give me a month pre-fishing a lake and I can compete with any body.

Why aint I fishing Pro will I'll use your comparison to baseball, you can't get drafted in Pro Bass Fishing. Back in 1974 nobody had sponsors like the millions of dollars available to today's pros.

The point to this whole post is simply go fishing any time you can, using the techniques you have confidence in, & let the chips fall where they may.

That's it in a nut shell

cart7t reply :

I always thought the ultimate challenge for any bassfishermen(woman) was the original Bassmasters Classic format.

Stick the top tourney pro's on a plane with a unknown destination, announce the destination in the middle of the flight and then hand out lake maps, allow 1 day to practice and familiarize themselves with the lake and then shoot the flare gun off and let'em have at it.

Obviously you can't do this anymore but those guys did remarkedly well during those first few classics run like that.

If you spend enough time on the water you're going to get in-tuned to what bass are doing.

If you spend enough time on any single body of water you'll do the same.

If you prepare yourself for fishing a new or nearly to (to you) body of water by studying maps, talking to locals or baitshop owners, checking the internet, you've cut the odds of you having a bad day on the water.

Take the time to read Bassmasters "A day on the Water" series with the pro's. These guys are quite adept at putting fish in the boat. They're very methodical though they do have bad days.

Big Bass fishermen and tournament anglers are about as different as the guys in the home run derby shows and guys playing a regular game of baseball.

If you saw the amount of tape on the cutting room floor of the average fishing TV show, you'd quickly realize those TV show hosts WEREN'T catching a fish on virtually every cast.

Everyday I'm on the water, I start to realize there are more exceptions to just about any rule in bass fishing. Take nothing for granted and never think you've got it figured out. The fish will always prove you wrong.

-badhabit- reply :

Quote
If you don't think my argument holds water, then lets look at your reasons why you think that. 1) You don't have to desire to be on the water 200+ days. If you are that good at figuring out bass on any lake, you will know it and more than likely give a shot at Federation or something like that. In this sport, if you are that good, you can advance based on success. You just work your way up the ladder based on performance. 2) I never implied anything about money. You can't put those words in my mouth. To me it's about the glory. It's about being the best. 3) I guess believing that locals and guides are what the pros rely on brings them closer to our level in our minds. That's BS! They have an uncanny ability to put the pieces of the puzzle together. It's their gut that they use for success. On-the-water adjustments. An educated-instinct. Are they successful all the time, no. But they are successful more times than those competing against them. I do agree they get info from the Internet, but they can't rely on it for their success.

I am a Pro Pool player and have been most of my adult life, so I am pretty well known already..... attention or travel are things I don't crave. (so that shoots that theory)

I am 46, basicaly retired from everything, and God has blessed me well enough that I'm comfortable. (I do own a company but it runs itself and I still play pool events 6 - 10 times a year.)

After fishing only for bass since the 70's and living in the "True" BIG bass capital of the world my all of my life my instincts are pretty accurate most of the time on finding bass. I have no interest in any fish on earth but big FL bass in FL.

I also never said I was a great fisherman anywhere, but I do fairly well some of the time. I just love to fish and I do have the time to do it whenever I please to (No deadlines, clocks to punch, or wife pulling my strings.)

By your theory Boyd Ducket (sp?) is a one hit wonder for winning the classic on his home waters. I believe he is prob as good as anyone else going. (only reason I know his name is his story on the Airrus rods site )

All of my heros have gone on to that big Lake Toho in the sky and I couldn't name 10 pro bass fishermen to save my own life.

I can't dance or sing worth a ..... so I fish. Run Forrest run! = <---- me and fishing.

-badhabit- reply :

I also agree with what Catt and cart7 said above

But will add that if you take away the internet, electronics, and 70 mph boats that nurse the new breed of tournament anglers along. Then just give them an old depth flasher to use it would seperate the best from the rest.

justfishin reply :

Wow, I am a professional pool player too. I play pocket pool a lot. ;D

guest reply :

Thanks Catt for this thread. I decided last night to just give my recomendation for equipment and such and I don't have to defend anything, A guy asks for experience and we share it with eachother I don't wanna be KVD or Bill Dance I just wanna be Muddy, havin the time of my life every time I am blessed to be out fishin

Speaking iof advice I have that Trigg on the Rod going out Tue and Wed and trying that spot Thanks for your encouragement all the time Catt you bee 8-) with me

guest reply :

This is a great thread.

I really enjoy when when passionate, differing opinions are expressed with intellegence and civility.

ON SKILL - My personal opinion is that the elite pro's are outstanding bass fisherman. There challenge is to find fish in huge bodies of water and under whatever conditions are presant at the time. The guys like Ike, and KVD and others who can do this consistantly are highly skilled anglers.

Big bass specialists like are own Fish Chris, are also highly skilled fisherman. As BH (the headless basser ) points out it takes alot of skill, dedication, and perserverence to consistantly catch double digits. Personally I admire the Big bass guys more, because I can't muster the discipline to "go big or go home" Kudo's to you.

ON HYPE - Let's remember that unlike other sports Pro bassers do not get paid a salary. If KVD were the best Football, baseball, basketball, and fuggedaboud soccer star, he would be pulling down double digit millions of dollars a year just in salary. Plus the endorsement bucks.

So these dedicated, hard working, skilled guys have no choice but to earn as much as they can while they are "hot" by pimping for Big Tackle.

Great thread.

Great posts.

BassResource.com rocks

garry77 reply :

Ithink avid summed it up in a nutshell.I have to admire the pros for having the tenacity to make a career out of fishing,and the big bass fisherman like badhabit,not because they catch lots of fish or because they catch big fish,just because they get to fish almost anytime they want.That would be so awesome to be able to fish any or every given day by your choice.

Catt reply :

Tournament anglers & Big Bass anglers are both skilled at what they do but both do they same thing I've said since my first post. They go fishing when they can, they fish with baits they have confidence in, & they let the chips fall where they may.

Take these simple elements of knowledge, bass strike a bait more often out of reaction than hunger, bass like cover of some type, bass relate to structure what ever it is.

The human tendency is to respond to failure and frustration by the over-complication rather than simplification of technique and theory.

feldtbass23 reply :

I've read these forums for about two months now while staying quiet. However, this thread finally made me talk...

I personally love this thread, and the fact that Catt and Needemp are in such a good debate. To add to what Catt said, I think that somewhere you said that most people wouldn't have the desire to be out on the Pro circuits for over 200 days. However, I think if you asked many of the Pros if they loved what they do for a living (or trying to make a living), than you would get a very positive response. However, I do agree with you that there are so many theories to bass fishing and that nobody will ever figure it out. So I do stay with my confidence baits, especially around local ponds and let the chips fall as they may.

I agree with avid in the sense that I never "go big or go home." I throw on what I think will catch the most fish, and not the biggest. And although the Hawg Hunters should be very respected, it's very hard not to say that people like KVD or any person trying to make a career out of fishing isn't very "ballsy." Although it takes a lot of skill, many fisherman fish circuit tournaments and go to work at a seperate job while trying to persue their dream early in their careers. If that isn't respectful, than I don't know what is.

Instead of being drafted like other Pro sports it's you against the water. Anybody who is fishing legally gets my respect. Thanks for listening guys, and by the way the name's Mike ;]

Needemp reply :

I am back from my family trip. I agree with what some people have stated. We can have a logical debate without letting our emmotions take control. I understand a lot better now where you are coming from, CATT. I don't agree yet, but hey, I am opened-minded enough that if I see the things you are talking about, I might end up on your side of the fence.

guest reply :

Quote
Tournament anglers & Big Bass anglers are both skilled at what they do but both do they same thing I've said since my first post. They go fishing when they can, they fish with baits they have confidence in, & they let the chips fall where they may.

Catt,

I have to disagree with you on this. There are significant differences between the big bass guys and the tournament pro's.

The tournament pro's cannot "fish when they can" They MUST fish at the scheduled time on the chosen lake.

The big bass hunters can choose the lake and times they think will give them the best shot at a lunker.

I'm not sure what you mean by "letting the chips fall where they may" If it means accepting the outcome well, is there really any other choice?

But any angler driven to win a tournament or catch a big fish, or just hit some personal mark, is going to aggresively pursue his goal. The chips will fall for sure, but some people are better at accepting defeat than others. That's one reason why champions are champions.

Catt reply :

Actually avid the pros can choose to fish a peculiar lake and not another although not very beneficial to their income. Now we are getting into semantics which will only get away from the point. "letting the chips fall where they may" means if you go fishing any time you can, using the techniques you have confidence in, fish the areas you believe to hold fish & the outcome will be what is ever it is because you have done you part.

Do the things you have control over, don't fret over the things you can't control, & by all means K.I.S.S.

cart7t reply :

I'm going to disagree with this part

Quote
"letting the chips fall where they may" means if you go fishing any time you can, using the techniques you have confidence in, fish the areas you believe to hold fish & the outcome will be what is ever it is because you have done you part.

If a pro tour angler used this line of thinking he'd probably bomb half the time he went out on the water. The one thing that sets the pro anglers apart from most is their ability to fish waters and techniques they aren't familiar with or have 100% confidence in in order to adapt to the water conditions or lake type they're fishing. If he used the technique you're describing, he'd try and find water that best suited his style of fishing, lure presentation and technique and THEN the chips would fall where they may. Most of those pro's though become familiar with all types of techniques because they have to in order to remain competitive. A guy like Denny Brauer may be known as a jig flippin expert but he's just as adept at switching to drop shotting if he has to. He may not like to drop shot, Probably doesn't have anywhere near the confidence in it as others but he will catch fish doing it. Conversly, KVD, who's best known as a spinnerbait king could switch to flippin to put fish in the boat if he had to. He may not necessarily like to do it nor be 100% comfortable but he can change gears like that if conditions dictate. He made the choice to not just toss his confidence bait and let the chips fall where they may and instead, change tactics to put the odds back in his favor.

Low_Budget_Hooker reply :

it's simple,....the bass can't read these posts so they don't know that they were supposed to bite a dark bait on a dark day with a slow fall.

Badhabit- don't limit yourself by geography. I sure do care what works no matter what part of the country you're from. A bumper sticker like that just makes you look green w/ *** (Being from RI though,....it's understandable ;D )

Needhemp- MANY pro's ABSOLUTELY DO rely on guides and locals to help them learn a lake.

-badhabit- reply :

Quote
it's simple,....the bass can't read these posts so they don't know that they were supposed to bite a dark bait on a dark day with a slow fall.
Badhabit- don't limit yourself by geography. I sure do care what works no matter what part of the country you're from. A bumper sticker like that just makes you look green w/ *** (Being from RI though,....it's understandable ;D )

Needhemp- MANY pro's ABSOLUTELY DO rely on guides and locals to help them learn a lake.

LBH - That sticker wasn't made about fishermen. But does apply in a lot of situations though with the thick cover, shallow water, tons of types of vegetation, muck, and FL not having even 1 rock that is native (except limerock).

If you worked in construction here in FL where the laws are all much more strict because of the weather (hurricanes, tornados, hail, etc...) you would know what it meant Most things that you build here have to be built to withstand 125 mph winds. With the flood of people that move here every year and get hired to work not having a clue how to build things in FL (and all other states are north of FL). A person gets kind of tired hearing "Up home we do that this way."

I wouldn't have a clue about fishing for smallmouth or largemouth up north and would prob bomb out (+ I don't do snow ).

So don't take it personal Bro and I still look forward to putting you on a double digit bass. (doing my best to anyway) ;D

roadwarrior reply :

The "science" simply improves your odds. "Consistancy" has nothing to do with luck, it is all about the science. It involves what is known about bass behavior, what experience on the water has tauught us and our perception of the clues on any given day.

Rick Clunn makes the point with this comment: "Catching bass is pretty easy, it's finding them that is the challenge."

Fish_Chris is my hero. He fishes alone (no guides), is multi-species, uses artificial and live bait, travels

to numerous water bodies, both freshwater and salt, CONSISTANTLY catches HUGE fish and uses

the "wrong" equipment. :

I don't think he's lucky...I think he's pretty good.

Matt Fly reply :

Pros on both sides of the fence have different rules, ie.......FLW pros don't have a very strict off limit period as the BASS does! Pressure doesn't play into the equation for all pros either, ie...... Byron Velvick doesn't have to do well on the water to make a living, so pressure is only part of the equation for some.

AN angler who excels with versatility does well on the tour. Denny Brauer is one of the best jig fishermen ever, but half the lakes on the newer extended tours, he doestn't display enough versatility to be an angler of the year. He's a great pro, but the lakes that are scheduled today look at well rounded strengths.

Look at AOY's from the early years. Versatility was limited, alot of techniques used today was not introduced yet. Todays guys have learned alittle of everything.

20 years ago, you didn't have the western lakes, the western light line tactics. Most of the tours were on southern lakes, with mostly southern pros in their back yards.

My thoughts are, Versatile fishermen of today are better apt to "MAKE ADJUSTMENTS ON THE WATER", that applies to "some" of the casual anglers as well as pros.

Hookem

Matt

guest reply :

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I decided last night to just give my recomendation for equipment and such

Yo, muddy

Don't be so modest dude,

You have some techniques pretty well locked. I'm sure the newer bassers would enjoy hearing from some one who has only been bass fishing for a year or so, but has used the forum to learn and get good at some proven styles for catching em.

You might want to hold off on the jig fishing advice for now though.

senile1 reply :

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The "science" simply improves your odds. "Consistancy" has nothing to do with luck, it is all about the science. It involves what is known about bass behavior, what experience on the water has tauught us and our perception of the clues on any given day.
Rick Clunn makes the point with this comment: "Catching bass is pretty easy, it's finding them that is the challenge."

Fish_Chris is my hero. He fishes alone (no guides), is multi-species, uses artificial and live bait, travels

to numerous water bodies, both freshwater and salt, CONSISTANTLY catches HUGE fish and uses

the "wrong" equipment. :

I don't think he's lucky...I think he's pretty good.

I have to second this opinion. Fish Chris is The Dude.

largemouthslayer reply :

By far the best post since joining this forum.....I'm lost because this steers up alot of emotions. I played golf for a living for six years and taught golf for four years after that.I had a whole chapter writen about me in a book last years #1 best seller in golf and stood next to Tiger Woods on the practice tee at this years Masters while working with my best friend who qualified for winning the US Mid Am (this is not to build myself up....I walked away from golf 5 years ago to start a buisness...I just want to make a point and wanted to let you know I know what I'm talking about... no B.S.) Fishing like Catt and Badhabit are talking about is different than pro fishing I think we would all agree.The friend I mentioned above that played in this years Masters walked away from professional golf 5 yaers ago.We were coming back from a tournament in Kentucky and he said "I hate playing golf for a living it has taken all the fun out of something I love." Now this guy has IT! It being what it takes to play the PGA tour. This is what the difference is I think in alot of local guys that can really fish. Competing in local tournaments is fun but I really wonder how many KVD's ,Cunn's,and Swindles wake up every morning and really want to go fishing like I and most of you do. I think most of use on this forum would also trade 20 5lbers for 1 dd. So in a since we are all big bass hunters don't kid yourself!

guest reply :

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I decided last night to just give my recomendation for equipment and such

Yo, muddy

Don't be so modest dude,

You have some techniques pretty well locked. I'm sure the newer bassers would enjoy hearing from some one who has only been bass fishing for a year or so, but has used the forum to learn and get good at some proven styles for catching em.

You might want to hold off on the jig fishing advice for now though.

Hey Avid I have been Bass Fishin for 10 years, just got into it more completly when I arrived here

I think Im gonna write a manual for using your trolling motor for better baot position when Jiggin

Redtail reply :

Great Post! I gotta go with Catt on this one. Until the bass start reading the same magazines we do, they won't always do what their suppose to.

-badhabit- reply :

I like this thread also and to hear everyone's opinions on the different subjects.

(edited "sorry RW" I had never seen a thread relating to that topic and I do have strong feelings about it.)

I do learn something from everyone that gets in my boat whether they have been fishing 3 days or 3 decades. That's part of the reason I offer just about anyone to go out on the lake with me, I like diversity in styles and studying them.

Just my thoughts on this.

(largemouthslayer - My company put the kitchen in Tiger's new home here in Orlando a couple of years ago. I got to spend quite a bit of time with him and his wife. But I don't golf. If you put a club in my hand you better have taken the kids & pets inside then boarded up your windows. )

Catt reply :

That's where you guys are wrong while a pro is proficient at various techniques they select 2 or 3 techniques that can be used on a specific structure/cover and will not drastically vary from that plan. Case in point you will not see KVD catching fish on day one with spinner baits and then change to deep diving cranks on day two. He will ride that spinner bait bite to victory or defeat; thus the chips have fallen where they may.

You guys are over complicating some thing that is not complicated

To quote roadwarrior It involves what is known about bass behavior, what experience on the water has taught us and our perception of the clues on any given day

roadwarrior reply :

*** MODERATOR NOTE ***

This topic is pretty broad, but it's NOT another debate over bed fishing...Please stay on topic or start a new thread.

Rattlinrogue reply :

I like to use the newer techniques,and I do catch fish using them.However,I usually go with what I have confidence in.I like to go fishing and use baits that have passed the test of time as far as being fish catchers.Using the dropshot,shakey head,and other finese presentations is exciting and fun,but I catch most of my fish on tried and true baits that have been catching 'em for decades.Although I don't limit myself to these baits,I've caught more bass on a silver/black back Rapala Original floater and a plain ole black plastic worm fished Texas style.

Catt reply :

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*** MODERATOR NOTE ***
This topic is pretty broad, but it's NOT another debate over bed fishing...Please stay on topic or start a new thread.

Yes sir boss

guest reply :

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Case in point you will not see KVD catching fish on day one with spinner baits and then change to deep diving cranks on day two. He will ride that spinner bait bite to victory or defeat; thus the chips have fallen where they may.

Catt, you can't be serious

You really believe that KVD got to be where he is by sticking with one bait and " riding it to victory or defeat"??

With all due respect dude, that is totally absurd. Conditions can, and often do change radically during tournaments. The top pro's are consistant winners because they can adapt to changing situations, adjust their tactics, and continue to bring in the bass.

guest reply :

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Hey Avid I have been Bass Fishin for 10 years, just got into it more completly when I arrived here

Sorry muddy, I didn't realize "Coney Island Whitefish" were bass

Needemp reply :

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Needhemp- MANY pro's ABSOLUTELY DO rely on guides and locals to help them learn a lake.

I disagree that they "ABSOLUTELY DO rely" on locals. I have heard it explained by KVD, Ike and others that you don't get caught up with what the locals say, but rather take what they say with a grain of salt and hope you get a tiny morsel. It seems kind of silly to think that Rick Clunn would rely on locals when all he has to do is tap into his vast resource of knowledge and experience. They might suggest a pink crankbait tears 'em up in the spring or something like that, but that is not the kind of info that you can ABSOLUTELY rely on. I don't know exactly how guides are utilized but I can't imagine the big boys "relying" on them. I think that guides can be beneficial, but they are just another tool. For instance, I think anyone of those big boys can get on a new lake and do real well without the use of a guide.

cart7t reply :

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I don't know exactly how guides are utilized but I can't imagine the big boys "relying" on them

Taking one of their "spots", say like a rock jetty, and utilizing it to win a tournament.

Just funnin with ya. ;D

One thing a pro like KVD does best is set himself up with multiple patterns on a lake during the practice periods. Those multiple patterns usually involve different baits with different presentations in different types of water. Roland Martin did that for years. To think an angler as talented as Van Dam is would allow himself to become a "one method Pete" is crazy. Too many things change over the course of a 3 or 4 day tournament. If you can't change with conditions you won't be at the top of the leader board and being at the top is something that guy does often.

Needemp reply :

I agree Cart, and I do think that guides (or buddies) can give some good locations away. Take Little Dixie for example. I am not that experienced to walk on a lake I have never fished and figure it out. But you knew the lake and we went over it the week before. The top pro's don't have to rely on that kind of stuff. They get out their maps, go to those spots, examine it themselves and have enough success to be one of the best in the world. I don't think it is as flippant as 'letting the cards fall as they may'. They will adjust if the spinnerbait bite is off, if the crankbait bite is off, if the shallow bite is not working, etc. I think from all of their desire and experience, they can get on a lake and figure it out. Do they always have success, heck no, but they do more often than their competition. It just kind of ruffles my feathers when people try to diminish their skills, or blame it on luck. These guys are just that good. End of rant ;D

PS I think these topics are good because it gives the more experienced anglers something to banter about.

largemouthslayer reply :

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*** MODERATOR NOTE ***
This topic is pretty broad, but it's NOT another debate over bed fishing...Please stay on topic or start a new thread.

Sorry RW just one more off the topic please....WERE IN THE H_LL ARE OUR MOOK T SHIRTS????????????

bubbler reply :

you just owned it dude!!!! 8-)

Catt reply :

Yes I am serious; name me one tournament where the conditions changed enough to go from say a shallow spinner bait bit to a deep crank bait bit. Why would someone leave an area where fish are biting to go to an area where they may be biting?

I don't know how this turned into what a tournament pro does but let's continue. To establish a pattern capable of winning a tournament you select an area based on the season that has a healthy population of bass. Then you select 2 or 3 techniques that would be effective on that selected area from the surface down to the bottom (the entire water column). Next you repeat this for 2 or 3 areas, now you have your game plan established. You do not try to establish a top water bite, spinner bait bite, jig bite, jerk bait bite, c-rig bite, drop shot bite, shaky head bite, wacky worm bite and so on. Yes the pros are very versatile but he is not going to try to fish every bait in his tackle box; that's a trick only weekend warriors use.

cart7t reply :

If you go back through the annals of bass tournament results, there are as many wins that were achieved by guys moving to several preselected spots using different baits and presentations as there are with guys who camped out on a select piece of structure.

Quote
Yes I am serious; name me one tournament where the conditions changed enough to go from say a shallow spinner bait bit to a deep crank bait bit. Why would someone leave an area where fish are biting to go to an area where they may be biting?

Cold front passes through, lake rises, lake falls, lake clears, lake muddies up, rain moves in or rain moves out. The possibilities are endless. Sometimes just the pressure of the tournament itself shuts the fish off. I've read quite a few tourney results where a guy runs to a spot knowing the bite is on in that spot for only an hour or so on a particular bait and then whammo, it shuts off. Then they pull up stakes and move to another pre-selected pattern for the rest of the day. How many times has a guy got a pattern setup to catch a quick limit and then change patterns completely in order to catch that kicker fish or two?

While it's true that some tourney guys do camp out on an area, fish it and let the chips fall where they may. If I was fishing I sure wouldn't rely on a pattern to hold for 3 or 4 days considering the conditions under which I'm fishing will change (water level, clarity, air pressure, weather conditions, etc.) I'd definitely try and come up with some backup fish in case things go awry.

Low_Budget_Hooker reply :

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it's simple,....the bass can't read these posts so they don't know that they were supposed to bite a dark bait on a dark day with a slow fall.
Badhabit- don't limit yourself by geography. I sure do care what works no matter what part of the country you're from. A bumper sticker like that just makes you look green w/ *** (Being from RI though,....it's understandable ;D )

Needhemp- MANY pro's ABSOLUTELY DO rely on guides and locals to help them learn a lake.

LBH - That sticker wasn't made about fishermen. But does apply in a lot of situations though with the thick cover, shallow water, tons of types of vegetation, muck, and FL not having even 1 rock that is native (except limerock).

If you worked in construction here in FL where the laws are all much more strict because of the weather (hurricanes, tornados, hail, etc...) you would know what it meant Most things that you build here have to be built to withstand 125 mph winds. With the flood of people that move here every year and get hired to work not having a clue how to build things in FL (and all other states are north of FL). A person gets kind of tired hearing "Up home we do that this way."

I wouldn't have a clue about fishing for smallmouth or largemouth up north and would prob bomb out (+ I don't do snow ).

So don't take it personal Bro and I still look forward to putting you on a double digit bass. (doing my best to anyway) ;D

lol,..I was just messing with ya bro Being in construction, the sticker makes sense. We build roads and build things differently for good reason, we have different climates. I wouldn't expect FL roads to be built with "frost heaves" in mind like we have to do up here,etc...

however,...

A bass is a bass is a bass, whether she's in Fl, RI, or Croatia. C'mon up, you'll do just fine!

Quote
Yes I am serious; name me one tournament where the conditions changed enough to go from say a shallow spinner bait bit to a deep crank bait bit. Why would someone leave an area where fish are biting to go to an area where they may be biting?
I don't know how this turned into what a tournament pro does but let's continue. To establish a pattern capable of winning a tournament you select an area based on the season that has a healthy population of bass. Then you select 2 or 3 techniques that would be effective on that selected area from the surface down to the bottom (the entire water column). Next you repeat this for 2 or 3 areas, now you have your game plan established. You do not try to establish a top water bite, spinner bait bite, jig bite, jerk bait bite, c-rig bite, drop shot bite, shaky head bite, wacky worm bite and so on. Yes the pros are very versatile but he is not going to try to fish every bait in his tackle box; that's a trick only weekend warriors use.

CLOSE!

You do all of that but also include 2 or 3 baits/techniques for the variable of a changing condition. Yes, they may have 2-3 styles for catching the fish that have been up on the flats that rise out of deep water. Low pressure, cloudy days, the fish have been there. They know this. They also know however, that if the sun pops after a few days of cloudiness that the fish will pull off those flats and shoot for deeper water. They also have a plan for this. It may not be the right one but they do plan ahead.

No single angler will stick to a method derived from current conditions if those conditions change. If/when those conditions disappear, so will that specific approach to catching them.

Catt reply :

Since we are picking on KVD, 73 times he finished 20th or worse; do you think he did that by running to several locations?

The problem I see is there are some here who when a topic to posted they automaticly run to the extreme left or extreme right. Yes there are exceptions to every rule but that is why in the beginning I said this aint an exact science. But Dudes y'all are over complicating some thing that aint that difficult by worrying about the exceptions. I talk to guys at work, listen to guys here and y'all are worrying about the what if's instead of the what is.

I'm not concerned with what KVD does he can take care of himself but I do care about the people here, while some of this is interesting information who cares if Jupiter is in the 3rd house and the moon is on the cusp of Sagittarius.

guest reply :

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I'm not concerned with what KVD does he can take care of himself but I do care about the people here, while some of this is interesting information who cares if Jupiter is in the 3rd house and the moon is on the cusp of Sagittarius

Well That is absolutlely the last straw catt.

EVERYONE knows that the moon is in the seventh house and jupiter is aligned with mars.

I can't beleive you would spread such blatant untruths.

George Welcome reply :

"But Dudes y'all are over complicating some thing that aint that difficult by worrying about the exceptions. I talk to guys at work, listen to guys here and y'all are worrying about the what if's instead of the what is."

And dats the twuth of it all.

largemouthslayer reply :

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Quote
I'm not concerned with what KVD does he can take care of himself but I do care about the people here, while some of this is interesting information who cares if Jupiter is in the 3rd house and the moon is on the cusp of Sagittarius

Well That is absolutlely the last straw catt.

EVERYONE knows that the moon is in the seventh house and jupiter is aligned with mars.

I can't beleive you would spread such blatant untruths.

I'll have to read this again around 4:20 8-)

-badhabit- reply :

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"But Dudes y'all are over complicating some thing that aint that difficult by worrying about the exceptions. I talk to guys at work, listen to guys here and y'all are worrying about the what if's instead of the what is."
And dats the twuth of it all.

That's what I was saying in the beginning....... "Give me an old bag of worms and a baitcaster then I will put fish in the boat"

(Some people do well with spinning outfits but I've only casted a spinning rod a couple of times in my life...anything that the line goes on sideways looks like trouble to me. With a baitcaster I could rip your shirt pocket off with a lure without ever touching you @ 50'...... lol)

largemouthslayer reply :

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Quote
"But Dudes y'all are over complicating some thing that aint that difficult by worrying about the exceptions. I talk to guys at work, listen to guys here and y'all are worrying about the what if's instead of the what is."
And dats the twuth of it all.

That's what I was saying in the beginning....... "Give me an old bag of worms and a baitcaster then I will put fish in the boat"

(Some people do well with spinning outfits but I've only casted a spinning rod a couple of times in my life...anything that the line goes on sideways looks like trouble to me. With a baitcaster I could rip your shirt pocket off without ever touching you ...... lol)

I could not agree more. A couple of weeks ago I made a post of what 4 lures would you use if that was it. I have not fished with KVD but have watched him on tv alot. Yes he can finesse fish (sorry I've tried it and feel like I'm crappie fishing with my daughter....all you finesse guys don't get your panties in a wad I didn't say your a girl if you finesse fish) I just feel like a man cheerleader when I do it. KVD can jig fish , but every time I've seen him it's a spinnerbait or rattle trap. I bet if you followed RW around a while Senko or Fat Ika or Russ Alurring Salt Stick. I think this is all CATT trying to say keep it simple fish what you know.

Needemp reply :

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Since we are picking on KVD, 73 times he finished 20th or worse; do you think he did that by running to several locations?
The problem I see is there are some here who when a topic to posted they automatically run to the extreme left or extreme right. Yes there are exceptions to every rule but that is why in the beginning I said this ain't an exact science. But Dudes y'all are over complicating some thing that ain't that difficult by worrying about the exceptions. I talk to guys at work, listen to guys here and y'all are worrying about the what if's instead of the what is.

I'm not concerned with what KVD does he can take care of himself but I do care about the people here, while some of this is interesting information who cares if Jupiter is in the 3rd house and the moon is on the cusp of Sagittarius.

CATT, your original post was "I understand that bass fishing is not an exact science. I establish what I believe to be truths & the bass prove its all lies. About the time I think I have the bass figured out the bass prove I don't. All this talk about color, rods, reels, boats, moon phases, can a bass see my line etc is just interesting information. So I simply go fishing any time I can, using the techniques I have confidence in, & I let the chips fall where they may." ----You take the side that truths don't exist ("the bass prove its all lies"), that this sport is "simple", color, rods, etc. will not help you become better but is rather just "interesting information" and that the "chips will fall where they may".

I disagree totally if you want to be the best. That goes absolutely against what the 'best' actually say. In my opinion based on everything I have learned and observed, if you have that way of thinking, you won't measure up with the best. I have no doubt that you can catch bass, but based on your way of thinking, I don't think you could measure up with any of the top guys. I am not trying to cut you down, you have a lot to teach the people here. But I think your comments are detrimental to the growth of newbies. That is not what I am experiencing and that is not what is taught by the pro's. Personally, I think if you believe all those quotes you can't make it to the top. I might be wrong, but if so, those big boys are the ones misleading me.

George Welcome reply :

What I said in above post: And dats the twuth of it all.

What I would like to know is what anyone feels the "Pros" are telling?

The only thing they can tell you is the mechanical aspects of this sport. They are not about to tell you their innermost thoughts, for that would tell you how they do what they do, and how they think: that would be akin to giving away top government secrets.

What the Pros have learned and truly believe you may never know. However, if you choose to follow that route, you will learn it, but more importantly you will learn to believe. It is that believing that the ones that rise to the top all have. It is the believing without falter that keeps them at the top. When that belief falters the slide down is quick and sure.

Catt reply :

Ok then let's elaborate a little more

1. I understand that bass fishing is not an exact science

Example of exact science: The times for the major fishing periods according to science are the first quarter new moon and the third quarter full moon.

Truth: My records over 35 yrs prove I have done just a well regardless of moon phase unless I'm fishing tidal water.

2. I establish what I believe to be truths & the bass prove its all lies

What is taught as truth Dark colors in dark water and light colors in clear water? A bass itself will blow holes in this theory.

3. All this talk about color, rods, reels, boats, moon phases, can a bass see my line ECT is just interesting information.

While even I enjoy debating these subjects the bass could care less if you're in a fiberglass boat or an aluminum boat, or if you use Shimano vs. Garcia, Lighting Rod vs. G. Loomis.

4. So I simply go fishing any time I can, using the techniques I have confidence in, & I let the chips fall where they may.

The absolute best time to go fishing is any time you can.

If I'm in a tournament or just wanting to catch I use techniques I have confidence in.

I don't fret over all the extremes you guys do; I believe this keeps my head clear of BS so I can concrete on what roadwarrior stated what is known about bass behavior, what experience on the water has taught us and our perception of the clues on any given day.

And you believe this to be detrimental to the growth of newbies, I sir believe buying into all the hype associated with bass fishing is detrimental to the growth of newbie's.

dink reply :

First of all, excellent post, Catt.

I try to see things objectively, so I understood the essence of Catt's statement. If taken literally, one could see this as a detriment to a newbie's learning curve. I don't think that is what was implied here, though. He simply stated that we, as slaves to the industry , tend to overcomplicate things in the name of convenience or progress. With this, I wholeheartedly agree.

I know Needemp. I've fished tournies with him and just for fun. This guy is like a sponge to info ;D. Yet, he likes to compete (as do I) and bases success on those outcomes. I know not totally, but this is where the 'glory hunt' comes into play. And since he likes to compete, his measuring stick will be the touring pros.

Where the chips fall? I usually eat 'embefore they hit the ground.

senile1 reply :

It is fun and interesting to learn and debate about the supposed tendencies of bass, the characteristics of equipment, and the performance of lures. I do agree that if we complicate things too much it can, at times, be detrimental to our success. There is so much information out there that it can blow a Newbie's mind.

Newbies should stick to the fundamentals. Learn a lure or two and work the hell out of them. Then learn another lure or two and do the same. Pick up techniques one at a time. Most of us aren't experts with every single lure or in every single situation. Most long-time bassers probably could count with the fingers on one hand the lures and techniques that we can truly say we have absolutely mastered. This is not to say we can't catch bass with many lures and techniques, but how many of these are go-to techniques that we are extremely confident with? Generally, these are the ones we have mastered. And these are the ones we use the most because we know our chances of putting fish in the boat are much higher using them. And then we let the chips fall where they may . . . . . . or we try something that we haven't mastered.

guest reply :

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I sir believe buying into all the hype associated with bass fishing is detrimental to the growth of newbie's

Yeah but it's great for the growth of the takle companies ;D

Catt reply :

The definition of word detrimental means obviously harmful

Needemp, so you're saying since I haven't won a B.A.S.S. OR FLW event I aint at the top of bass fishing?

Glenn reply :

Catt - do you honestly believe he meant that, or....?? Even if he did, what does it matter?

Let's keep this thread from getting personal, guys. People get defensive, then aggressive. Seen it happen too many times before.

Keep your eye on the ball and focus on the topic at hand instead.

Matt Fly reply :

A great example of a pro doing what they know best was seen on the Northern Run of the Elite Series to the Great Northern waters.

Every body who predicted a winner said, "who ever patterns the smallies" will be in the money.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the Northern tour series bring back to back winners with Largemouth sacks and were caught shallow on jigs? Exactly opposite of what the pro's thought.

I believe Biffle and Brauer went "against the grain". 98 other pros tried what they thought would put the best limit in the boat.

Matt

To me, they fished their strengths.

DR_Bass reply :

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I understand that bass fishing is not an exact science

Thank God!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You can say that again!!!

DR_Bass reply :

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A great example of a pro doing what they know best was seen on the Northern Run of the Elite Series to the Great Northern waters.
Every body who predicted a winner said, "who ever patterns the smallies" will be in the money.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the Northern tour series bring back to back winners with Largemouth sacks and were caught shallow on jigs? Exactly opposite of what the pro's thought.

I believe Biffle and Brauer went "against the grain". 98 other pros tried what they thought would put the best limit in the boat.

Matt

To me, they fished their strengths.

If you always fish your strengths you are going to win sooner or later..

Catt reply :

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Catt - do you honestly believe he meant that, or....?? Even if he did, what does it matter?
Let's keep this thread from getting personal, guys. People get defensive, then aggressive. Seen it happen too many times before.

Keep your eye on the ball and focus on the topic at hand instead.

Sorry Boss I've no intention of being antagonistic but if I'm being obviously harmful to newbie's I would like to know in what capacity?

I truly like this type of discussion; I like people to think about why they have came to the conclusions they have came to. I want to know what Glenn thinks, what avid thinks, what Needemp thinks, & I want to know what newbie's think.

But for the peace & harmony to the site I'll let this subject die

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