Big bass are smarter? 2024

runt4561 reply :

I am going to vent here for a little bit. I have seen something in print over and over for most of my life and continues to be quoted by numerous fishing professionals. "Big bass are smarter". hhhhmmmm. I don't think you can take an animal that has a brain the size of a quarter and say that animal is smarter than another animal with the same size brain.

I do believe that big fish get big because they are skittish or wary. same can be said for big bucks as it relates to deer hunting. I think a big fish gets big because, the first moment he senses a boat or anything out of the ordinary in his underwater world, he or she gets nervous, skittish or wary. if he sees a bait and it just doesn't quite look like what he is used to eating, he passes. I think that some fish may avoid artificial baits just because they might have higher standards to eat something. maybe the scent isn't quite right or color or action. so, if a fish avoids artificial baits and is also skittish to the point that anytime anything gets near him other than another bass, he seeks shelter. this fish will have more opportunity to get big. we see this with different animals. take dogs for instance.... everyone has seen a dog that wont come near anyone and is very skittish. sometimes dogs from the same litter with the same amount of human contact, just don't want to be near humans. I think those same traits carry over into bass as well.

I know this rant seems pointless and as I think about it maybe it is. but I also know a lot of beginners come here to soak up information and there is a lot of information in this forum. I just want the right information out there. I have been led astray many times by people that claim they know about "x,y or z" only to find out that I got bad information or incomplete information. point is, one fish is not smarter than another. I think some of these pros get in the habit of repeating what they have heard all of their lives without giving it much thought.

now, I would imagine this has sparked many haters and other keyboard cowboys to start typing their opinions and that is fine. afterall this is my opinion. And I will respect your opinion even if you don't respect mine.

Yeajray231 reply :

I don't necessarily think that bigger means smarter.. but without a doubt some bass are smarter than others.

I've had black labs my whole life... And although they were all intelligent and loved the water, I wouldn't say they were all perfectly equal when it came to brain power. (Even though they were the same breed )

It's borderline ignorant to think that all bass are exactly alike in intelligence... Sure we've dissected them and know their brains are not very big... This does not conclude that they are all exactly the same " IQ" .

But I don't think bigger means smarter... Bigger means better fed and older (in the north)

Could being a smarter than average bass lead to getting bigger ? Without a doubt!!! But the sharelunker programs have shown the same hogs getting caught several times in one season... So. What does that mean ?

KurtActual reply :

I tend to think that an animal that learns to become weary around boats would be considered smarter (or more mature) than those that aren't. Same line of thinking for the picky eaters. It's a learned behavior, which would imply one being "smarter" than another.

But, even smart people can be tricked.

Bassin' Brad reply :

This should be an interesting topic. Can't wait to hear everyones opinion....

WRB reply :

Lower life forms like fish don't use the brains for reasoning it's beyond thier capability. Bass grow older by avioding being eaten by other predators until they are adults. The bass that don't survive made critical errors that resulted in death or severe harm and by doing so their instincts for survival don't develop.. Some bass are very aggressive, others are cautious and a few very wary. The most aggressive tend get caught by anglers using artificial lures or killed by other predators, if they survive they also tend to be larger size because they out compete other fish for food and develop survival instincts. The cautious bass make up the majority of the population because they tend to survive longer. The most wary rarely case down faster moving prey or get caught by anglers using artificial lures but also don't grow large size because they are get out competed by other bass and other predators seeking the same food source. Life for wild animals isn't easy, they starve if they can't learn to catch prey, they get wounded avioding capture by other predators, desease is always a factor, just living for a few years to develop the skills needed to survive and become adults. As adults they must continue a life as a predator and compete for food and procreate the species passing on their gene traits, the weak don't get to be adults. It's all about survival skills not intellect.

Tom

RoLo reply :

Bass function essentially thru congenital instinct,

and the older the bass, the more conditioned its behavioral response.

Problem is, conditioned behavior is easily mistaken for intelligence.

Like the old adage: "Even a fish wouldn't get into trouble, if it never opened its mouth"

Roger

Catt reply :

The biggest bass ever caught was lake Dixon's Dottie at 25 lbs 1 ozs

She was caught & released several times over her 15-17 yr life!

WRB reply :

On 4/11/2017 at 5:06 AM, Catt said:

The biggest bass ever caught was lake Dixon's Dottie at 25 lbs 1 ozs

She was caught & released several times over her 15-17 yr life!

Dottie was caught at least 3 times as a giant bass over 18 lbs, who knows how many times during her life time. She was caught 3 times and weighed, each was off a bed. No tracking device to record where she lived for 11 months of the year, my guess in the safe closed to fishing area near the dam where the trout live.

Tom

A-Jay reply :

Big bass are smarter ~ I don't believe that.

I believe the following about 'Big Bass'.

First if we are talking about trophy fish, there are less of them percentage wise.

Also not every body of water can or will produce them - ever.

They are generally not located where (and when) the average angler finds most of their bass.

Meaning except for the spawn, they are often positioned a little deeper. In locations / depths that some anglers may not be comfortable fishing or perhaps are a little less effective presenting a bait - meaning not on the bank, or anywhere near any visible structure or cover.

That said, I believe that instead of special big fish baits, or presentations or special tactics; what one needs to do to catch a Big Bass is first fish a body of water that produces them. Then use a proven bait with the correct gear, make an effective presentation, at the right place and at the right time. Simple right ? No, everyone knows that nothing's guaranteed. But if you put the odds in your favor enough times, you might get lucky and that's about all you can do.

A-Jay

Catt reply :

On 4/11/2017 at 5:19 AM, WRB said:

Dottie was caught at least 3 times as a giant bass over 18 lbs, who knows how many times during her life time. She was caught 3 times and weighed, each was off a bed. No tracking device to record where she lived for 11 months of the year, my guess in the safe closed to fishing area near the dam where the trout live.

Tom

Don't sound to smart to me

gimruis reply :

I agree with yeajray. Bigger bass or bigger fish are not necessarily smarter but they have maybe become more wary simply because they are usually older. The same concept applies to bucks when deer hunting and even toms when turkey hunting. Their experiences over their lives have taught them to learn from their mistakes. Not only that, but there just aren't as many big ones out there because every habitat has a carrying capacity.

Raul reply :

I've caught the same 10+ lber 4 times the same week in almost the same spot. That on it's own should be a record.

WRB reply :

On 4/11/2017 at 5:54 AM, Raul said:

I've caught the same 10+ lber 4 times the same week in almost the same spot. That on it's own should be a record.

We now know you are smarter then that bass!

Tom

J Francho reply :

Not a pointless rant at all! I love these types of posts. I can only add one word to the discussion of the biggest bass in the lake: specialized. It seems like the big ones have figured out something different, and that's what has provided them with success. It's also frustrating for us, trying to figure them out.

WRB reply :

Catching the biggest bass or the top 1% in any body of water can be 1 lucky cast or a lifetime studying these rare bass and targeting them...it takes dedication to catch consistently. If I can catch them anyone can if they are willing to put in the time on the water to learn where these big bass live and lots of fishless hours catching nothing.

Tom

BassWhole! reply :

I do not believe that there is a correlation between a fish's size and it's "intelligence" or that larger fish are any more difficult to catch. There are however behavioral differences that occur at different stages of a fish's development. "I catch more small fish than large fish" is not statistical data, or even logical anecdotal evidence that larger fish are "smarter".

slonezp reply :

On 4/11/2017 at 5:06 AM, Catt said:

The biggest bass ever caught was lake Dixon's Dottie at 25 lbs 1 ozs

She was caught & released several times over her 15-17 yr life!

I attest this to, being the female of the species, she wouldn't keep her mouth shut

lo n slo reply :

smart is, as smart does

the reel ess reply :

They can be dumb around me. It's OK because I'll put them back.

MassYak85 reply :

I wouldn't say smarter, just wiser. I don't think they are capable of thinking anything a little dink can't but they have seen countless lures, and have basically mastered their habitat at that point. I think one of the reasons they are harder to catch (besides being less common) is they are very efficient based on their experience. They know what meals are worth it and which aren't.

BassWhole! reply :

On 4/11/2017 at 8:04 AM, MassYak85 said:

...(besides being less common)...

And there you go.

slonezp reply :

Maybe it has to do with, percentage wise, not many bass become "big". Big, being relative to their local ecosystem. Maybe the big fish are just fortunate. Maybe some are fortunate they have never seen an artificial lure. Maybe some are fortunate they have good genes. Maybe some are fortunate they didn't become prey themselves. Maybe some are fortunate they have an ample food supply. Maybe the rest are just unfortunate they don't have what the big fish have. Maybe it's a stupid theory.

Maybe it has to do with maturity. Dare I say the youth of every species makes poor decisions based on being ignorant and/or naive. Most grow out of it. To touch on something WRB said, fish are unable to reason but, aren't most if not all animals? Do animals need the abilty to reason when their instinct tell them all they need is to survive and procreate? Maybe buried in the instinct to survive is the ability to be trained. (I use the word "trained" because I think the word "learn" implies reason.) We already know fish habitually respond to positive natural external stimuli such as light, sound, vibration, temperature, pressure, current, and opportunity. Surely they can be trained in the negative.....

scaleface reply :

Big bass get dumber on cloudy days .

RHuff reply :

A big bass is the one who becomes the dominate fish in a very nutrient rich area. By nutrient I mean it has a great source of structure, cover, deep water, shallow water, and food source with relatively low fishing pressure.

To sum - it's both a bad ass and smart.....

sully420 reply :

Bass don't think they react, the biggest bass are the bass that eat the most. I read these forums and it's full of fisherman over thinking and over complicating bass fishing. Each tread like this has a core of very good anglers trying to steer Anglers away from this line of thought, it never ceases two amaze me how many people do not take this subtle common sense information to Heart.

J Francho reply :

On 4/12/2017 at 1:38 AM, sully420 said:

Bass don't think they react, the biggest bass are the bass that eat the most. I read these forums and it's full of fisherman over thinking and over complicating bass fishing. Each tread like this has a core of very good anglers trying to steer Anglers away from this line of thought, it never ceases two amaze me how many people do not take this subtle common sense information to Heart.

But there's a hole in your own statement. Are the biggest bass the best fed, or do the least to find their food?

sully420 reply :

On 4/12/2017 at 1:46 AM, J Francho said:

But there's a hole in your own statement. Are the biggest bass the best fed, or do the least to find their food?

Good point, i guess it depends on the water you fish In my experience, where I fish in MN the biggest bass 6lb+ are definitely not schoolers they are the ambush feeders that are caught in heavy cover on big jigs. In other words they expend less energy and eat bigger meals. I've also noticed that I don't find bigg bass in the same places I catch large northern pike and muskellunge I've gotten on schools of one two three pound bass in literally had 40 + inch muskellunge bite them off at the boat

J Francho reply :

My observations are similar to yours. I have a couple spots where the pike and bass intersect, but usually it's one or the other. There's one place, where there's so many BIG northerns, the only bass that would survive would be over 4#, or they'd probably eaten. They're mostly there to eat the summer run rainbows and stockings.

WRB reply :

The thinking big bass are lazy fish that don't spend a lot of energy hunting prey isn't supported by observing them hunt. Big bass get big from a combination of their genes and ability to find and eat high protein larger prey. If the food source isn't available for the bsss throughout it's life cycle it will not grow. When a potential big bass is a little bass it needs abundant small prey as an adult it needs abundant larger prey to grow big. Bass that don't use energy to find prey doesn't have the same opportunity to feed on prey.

Tom

J Francho reply :

I'm not suggesting laziness. I'm suggesting less effort for the payoff. If you live next to a pizza joint, you're gonna eat pizza more often than burgers, which are ten miles down the road.

sully420 reply :

On 4/12/2017 at 2:12 AM, WRB said:

The thinking big bass are lazy fish that don't spend a lot of energy hunting prey isn't supported by observing them hunt. Big bass get big from a combination of their genes and ability to find and eat high protein larger prey. If the food source isn't available for the bsss throughout it's life cycle it will not grow. When a potential big bass is a little bass it needs abundant small prey as an adult it needs abundant larger prey to grow big. Bass that don't use energy to find prey doesn't have the same opportunity to feed on prey.

Tom

I can't argue with your statement at all but I think this is where the body of water comes into play. Bodies of water where there is high caloric value Bait fish such as trout probably produce bigger bass that are more mobile.

wdp reply :

On 4/11/2017 at 6:37 PM, scaleface said:

Big bass get dumber on cloudy days .

?????

Maybe what a lot of pros mean when they say "smarter" is they really mean "conditioned". Like saying the big bass are smarter is just the good ole boy or easy way of saying they're conditioned to not being fooled by a number of artificial baits.

I dunno. I think one thing we can all agree on, big bass are definitely harder to catch.

jimf reply :

"Smarter" is a convenient word to use that conveys an idea reasonably well. As @wdp alluded to, it's a way of saying something simply. Why a bass doesn't bite and grows big and lives long is complicated. Maybe some conditioning to negative stimuli in it's life - having been caught once or five times. Maybe it's some genetic pre-disposition to want to hide more or be a little more selective than his brothers and sisters in finding it's next meal or luck or a million other things.

He's smart.

I do get the premise that it's probably wrong in the sense of how we generally go about using the word, but to me it conveys the intended message.

Looking for the big one reply :

The younger a bass is, the less interaction with lures and fishermen it has. Therefore as it grows older and bigger it will be more experienced, and therefore to a fisherman like us "smarter". Smart is simply what we prefer to say because it makes sense that if a fish doesn't eat your lure, the fish is using reasoning and making the decision.

BassWhole! reply :

Let me ask you guys something. Do you think that there are thousands of 12 lb bass in every lake and pond just out of sight, and one of them taps another on the shoulder and says "look at that dumb angler thinking one of us is going to hit that" and they all have a good laugh? Come on now.

J Francho reply :

I don't think there are any 12 lb. bass in my lakes. There are bass that are bigger than others, by a lot. There aren't thousands, but there's enough to see quite a few of these caught during tournaments by the top few anglers. Who knows about the majority that don't fish tournaments. Most trophy guys are tight lipped. Tournament weigh in events are just one way to get an idea of what the biggest fish in the lake are.

Looking for the big one reply :

I don't think anybody thinks that, reason. I think that there are people on here who prefer to simplify bass fishing, and I think there are people who make bass fishing complicated. Trying to convince either to think the other way is somewhat pointless. I don't know of anybody who is a qualified bass psychologist, and what we as anglers think is mostly speculation based upon logic.

J Francho reply :

There's actually a couple good books on fish behavior. They are written in the context of aquariums, but some of the observation and hypothesis has insight. It's not so much that they do things in a tank that they wouldn't do in nature, as it shows what is possible.

And where is @Paul Roberts for this one!

slonezp reply :

On 4/12/2017 at 2:29 AM, wdp said:

?????

Maybe what a lot of pros mean when they say "smarter" is they really mean "conditioned". Like saying the big bass are smarter is just the good ole boy or easy way of saying they're conditioned to not being fooled by a number of artificial baits.

I dunno. I think one thing we can all agree on, big bass are definitely harder to catch.

So you're saying bass are smart enough to determine what is and what is not artificial? If fish were that smart, the lure companies would have gone out of business years ago and nightcrawlers would be $15 a dozen

Let me pose a few more questions. What triggers the feeding response? Do bass feel hunger pangs? Are hungry bass easier to catch? If bass are opportunistic feeders, why are they not eating everytime there is an opportunity? What does a bass consider an "opportunity"?

Paul Roberts reply :

On 4/12/2017 at 6:25 AM, J Francho said:

And where is @Paul Roberts for this one!

Not sure what the question is.

J Francho reply :

Have any thoughts on the topic?

WRB reply :

Bill Murphy's book In Pursuit of Giant Bass is based on his experiences and on the water tracking studies by a fishery biologist.

First you must separate bass gender, girls get big, boys don't in the same exact environmemt and prey sources. Location, location, location is important, can't eat if the food isn't available, big bass live near abundant prey sources.

Tom

J Francho reply :

That's the theme of the book, but the location deal was of primary concern. He would wait out the big girls until they fed if he thought he was at the right location.

WRB reply :

You guess right about 1 out of 15 trips, even when you have a good idea where to fish and Murphy had tracking studies to help him. Big bass move around, some may be home bodies, most roam a home area hunting zone, being at the right place at the right time isn't easy.

The big bass population density is extremely low and Murphy used every type of legal bait and customized lures he could think of. I choose to use only lures because don't have the patients it takes to effectively fish live bait and preferred jigs. Like Murphy caught hundreds of DD bass and knew/know my lakes and where to fish, their habits and behavior, it still takes a lot of fishless hours to catch 1 big bass and the population density is lower today then it was a decade ago. These big bass aren't smart but they know how to avoid being caught or wouldn't they be there.

Tom

OCdockskipper reply :

I think another factor that adds to the "feeling" that big bass are smart is how hard they are to land even when hooked. I was amazed in another thread that a huge majority of anglers, of all skill levels, did not land the largest bass they ever hooked. Part of that is the difficulty in controlling a fish that large & strong but part of it is also our anxiety when we realize what is on the end of our line. Bluebasser relayed this in his story, when he wasn't worried about the large fish he hooked, thinking it was a catfish or some other species. Once the bass showed itself, in his mind,the situation changed.

The combination of brute strength of a larger fish combined with the increased number of unforced errors by even the best angler allow these "smart" fish to escape capture.

greentrout reply :

How To Catch A 10-Pound Plus Bass

By Bill Miller, Ph.D.

No one, even the best professional bass anglers, can tell you a specific formula for catching a really huge bass. I can't either, but what I can do is give you some sound advice that will tip the odds in your favor.

First, it is essential that you fish where bass grow to a tremendous size. Lakes like Fork (Texas), Sam Rayburn (Texas), Lake Amistad (Texas), Lake Falcon (Texas), Eufaula (Georgia, Alabama) Seminole (Florida), Toledo Bend, Caney (Louisiana) and the phosphate pit lakes in Florida and southern California all hold bass of true trophy size. Of course I didn't mention all of the lakes known for producing 10-pound plus bass. There are a large number of lakes in other states that have huge bass. It doesn't even have to be a lake to contain a monster wall-hanger. Small stock ponds produce trophies, too. It does make it easier if you fish takes that have Florida strain largemouth in them. As real estate people are fond of saying, "Location, location, location!"

The absolute surefire way of increasing your chances in any place is to fish in the spring. Fish early, stay with it, fish hard, wisely and use big-bass lures. The single most important tip of all is to fish February through May. If you look at all the state records you will find most of the trophy bass were caught during these months.

BASS RESOURCE >> https://www.bassresource.com/fishing/catching_big_bass.html

wdp reply :

On 4/12/2017 at 6:31 AM, slonezp said:

So you're saying bass are smart enough to determine what is and what is not artificial? If fish were that smart, the lure companies would have gone out of business years ago and nightcrawlers would be $15 a dozen

Let me pose a few more questions. What triggers the feeding response? Do bass feel hunger pangs? Are hungry bass easier to catch? If bass are opportunistic feeders, why are they not eating everytime there is an opportunity? What does a bass consider an "opportunity"?

Oh boy. Not what I said at all. As has been mentioned earlier in this thread bass can become conditioned, which I take to mean they will not bite certain lures, or at least not as readily. I def think that happens which is why heavily pressured lakes have lower catch rates - we all hear about this all the time. And I've seen it 1st hand in my own neighborhood pond. I've fished cranks out there so much that I can't hardly get em to hit those anymore. I've had to switch up to more finesse techniques.

geo g reply :

Bass whether big or small are not the brightest bulbs in the package. They don't think much, they react to their surroundings. Big bass will hunker down and ambush creatures that happen by their hiding places. They are not out there chasing other fish like their smaller schoolers. They conserve energy and maximize intake. They are not thinking, what am I going to do today, they just do it when the conditions present themselves. They are not a pod of killer whales planning and executing an attack, a pride of lions organizing a hunt, or a wolf pack chasing a herd of bison. Bass are good at what they do, but compared to other living creatures pretty simple thinkers.

WRB reply :

School bass do all the above, hunt in wolf packs, heard baitfish and work as a team. To think big bass don't adjust to thier environment then you are missing out on some opportunities. Suggest watching Big Mouth Forever vedio, may open your eyes.

Tom

RoLo reply :

Is it any wonder why bass are so smart,

there are myriads of Bass Schools!

Catt reply :

Anthropomorphism is the attribution of human traits, emotions, and intentions to non-human entities.

I don't know what adjective one would use or if there is one but I do know "big bass" offer a different challenge then smaller bass.

Ole Tom mentioned it but didn't expound on it.

Genetics is the #1 factor that determines if a bass reaches double digit status.

Strike Zone: the distance around a bass at which it is will to travel to catch prey. Minimum output - Maximum intake; put your lure on the outer edge of the "strike zone" & big momma may ignore it. The strike zone shrink & expands according to existing conditions.

There is a point in a females life when she reaches a certain size where she becomes the top predator.

Usually located on prime structure & in prime cover, she will be setup on structure & in cover that allows her to see all directions at once. Maybe not 360 but it'll be as close as they feel comfortable.

Double digit bass are highly predictable because they follow a strict routine. She can however quickly detect changes to her routine like your presence.

Hooking her vs landing her can be a challenge because of shear weight, strength, & cunningness!

Is she smart...enough to make me wonder if I know what I'm doing!

slonezp reply :

On 4/12/2017 at 10:44 AM, wdp said:

Oh boy. Not what I said at all. As has been mentioned earlier in this thread bass can become conditioned, which I take to mean they will not bite certain lures, or at least not as readily. I def think that happens which is why heavily pressured lakes have lower catch rates - we all hear about this all the time. And I've seen it 1st hand in my own neighborhood pond. I've fished cranks out there so much that I can't hardly get em to hit those anymore. I've had to switch up to more finesse techniques.

If heavily pressured lakes had lower catch rates, youd imagine the pressure would die down. That is not the case and lakes like Guntersville, toledo bend, and clear lake continue to produce trophys. Im not saying i disagree about " conditioning ", just that other factors may exist.

On 4/12/2017 at 7:35 PM, Catt said:

Anthropomorphism is the attribution of human traits, emotions, and intentions to non-human entities.

I don't know what adjective one would use or if there is one but I do know "big bass" offer a different challenge then smaller bass.

Ole Tom mentioned it but didn't expound on it.

Genetics is the #1 factor that determines if a bass reaches double digit status.

Strike Zone: the distance around a bass at which it is will to travel to catch prey. Minimum output - Maximum intake; put your lure on the outer edge of the "strike zone" & big momma may ignore it. The strike zone shrink & expands according to existing conditions.

There is a point in a females life when she reaches a certain size where she becomes the top predator.

Usually located on prime structure & in prime cover, she will be setup on structure & in cover that allows her to see all directions at once. Maybe not 360 but it'll be as close as they feel comfortable.

Double digit bass are highly predictable because they follow a strict routine. She can however quickly detect changes to her routine like your presence.

Hooking her vs landing her can be a challenge because of shear weight, strength, & cunningness!

Is she smart...enough to make me wonder if I know what I'm doing!

Agree. And fish have to eat. Big fish didn't get big from dieting

Catt reply :

On 4/12/2017 at 8:22 PM, slonezp said:

And fish have to eat. Big fish didn't get big from dieting

Big bass are like men...both get in trouble for not keeping their mouths closed!

RPreeb reply :

Hey all... first post from an old "beginner" bass fisherman. I can't say just what the intelligence level of a bass is, but I do know that they have an ego as big as the lake they live in. Back when I was a kid in Wisconsin, I fished regularly for largemouth at our cabin on Balsam Lake where I spent my first 17 summers. My brother and I spent many early mornings and late evenings out in the canoe casting for bass.

In 1960 or 1961 I was fishing a frog pattern Jitterbug (large casting size lure because all I had was an ancient steel casting rod and reel that couldn't even throw a heavy lure 100 feet), and it seemed to bump something and the action on it changed. I finished reeling it in thinking it had caught a floating weed, but the weed turned out to be a 3" long bass. The fish was about the same length as the lure, as probably 1/4 as heavy. It could barely get it's mouth around one bend of the treble hook, but it had managed that much and was well hooked. That fish had delusions of grandeur if it thought it was going to eat anything 1/4 as large as that Jitterbug. I figured it could only be ego or anger that made it attack something that it could never have eaten even if it had been edible. That told me that some bass just go into attack mode and would nail anything that came in range.

geo g reply :

On 4/12/2017 at 12:51 PM, WRB said:

School bass do all the above, hunt in wolf packs, heard baitfish and work as a team. To think big bass don't adjust to thier environment then you are missing out on some opportunities. Suggest watching Big Mouth Forever vedio, may open your eyes.

Tom

Schooling bass don't have certain bass with specific jobs like lions and wolves that take turns driving the pray or lions that have key lions hid in the grass and the other drive the pray to the hidden ones. Wild dogs have drivers and others that circle to intercept. Killer Whales will throw a live seal to their young to teach them how to hunt and kill. I suggest you watch National Geo. to see the depth of communication during a hunt. Bass are light weights when it comes to brain power. I have watched Big Mouth Forever many times and have a copy at home.

WRB reply :

On 4/13/2017 at 4:41 AM, geo g said:

Schooling bass don't have certain bass with specific jobs like lions and wolves that take turns driving the pray or lions that have key lions hid in the grass and the other drive the pray to the hidden ones. Wild dogs have drivers and others that circle to intercept. Killrt Whales will throw a live seal to their young to teach them how to hunt and kill. I suggest you watch National Geo. to see the depth of communication during a hunt. Bass are light weights when it comes to brain power. I have watched Big Mouth Forever many times and have a copy at home.

My Point is not all bass are single ambush predators, some group together to maximize feeding efforts by hearding prey fish. I watch this activity many times with schools of bass over 10 lbs work together to feed on trout schools. This isn't a hypothical theory it's based on visual experience and taking advantage of schooling big bass to catch them.

I agree fish,including bass, don't have the ability plan this activity, but they come together for this common purpose.

Tom

Paul Roberts reply :

Are big bass smarter...

I'm not qualified to talk about what "smart" is. But I do kinda shake my head when fisherman so often call bass "pea brained". All I can say is... That's one heck of a pea. Fish are capable of much more than people realize. Bass are very good at... being bass. Just what all that is is what we fisherman are trying to understand. Not terrible easy to do.

As to big bass vs small bass. There are waters that produce many big bass, then there are waters that produce very few. In both cases bass that get big have to eat an awful lot. In waters that produce very few, those few individuals have figured something out. It may not be smarts as much as a mix of aggression, and luck -the food has to be there to support that growth.

Since most fishing is now C&R, avoiding fisherman plays less a role. Lots of shy, skittish, "smart", uncatchable bass die of old age at less than 4lbs.

Team9nine reply :

Big bass are smarter? - Nope, but I would say they are more discriminatory in their behavior.

-T9

WRB reply :

"Every time I read an article about someone who thinks they have bass figured out, I just shake my head and snicker because the more you dig into this sport the further you seem to be getting to the bottom of it all". The late Bill Murphy.

papajoe222 reply :

Big bass are/get big because they are better predators than the majority of bass in any given body of water. Part of being a good predator is avoiding detection and in the case of bass that applies to both their quarry and those that prey upon them. Is that being smarter than the other bass, a result of genetics, or just a percentage of fish that were never, or rarely caught?

I don't care about how accurate the terms used to describe their behavior are, only that the facts surrounding how to catch them are. Some of that information is much more misleading that the statement that big bass get big because they're smart.

Catt reply :

On 4/13/2017 at 9:27 AM, WRB said:

"Every time I read an article about someone who thinks they have bass figured out, I just shake my head and snicker because the more you dig into this sport the further you seem to be getting to the bottom of it all". The late Bill Murphy.

About the time I think I have them figured out they prove to me I don't!

Ole Catt

wdp reply :

On 4/12/2017 at 8:22 PM, slonezp said:

If heavily pressured lakes had lower catch rates, youd imagine the pressure would die down. That is not the case and lakes like Guntersville, toledo bend, and clear lake continue to produce trophys. Im not saying i disagree about " conditioning ", just that other factors may exist.

Agree. And fish have to eat. Big fish didn't get big from dieting

But the catch rates are lower at Guntersville. There was an article (one of those photo gallery type articles) on Bassmaster's website in 2016 discussing just that. I don't think the pressure has died down there because people keep seeing the pros catching em from the various tournament coverages. At least that's my theory anyway. ? I would venture to guess that a large portion of those average Joes that flood Guntersville every year also have unproductive fishing trips. At least compared to the standards of what we see caught on TV.

As as far trophies being caught at all the lakes you mentioned, that still doesn't statistically prove that catch rates overall have not decreased. Just saying.

I'm not trying to argue & I think we're actually on the same page. I really don't think big bass are smarter. I think they might be more conditioned & perhaps less likely to hit certain artificial baits. I mean to me, it logically makes sense. The bigger a bass, the older it is. The older it is, the more it's likely to have seen artificial lures & the more conditioned it is.

Like I said earlier I dunno for sure. At the end of the day most of what we're discussing is guesswork, although somewhat educated guesswork. But I stand by my statement that big bass are harder to catch. But that's part of what makes fishing more fun. Sure wouldn't mean near as much to me if I could go out & catch 10 pounders every trip like they were dinks.

Mosster47 reply :

On 4/13/2017 at 10:48 AM, wdp said:

But the catch rates are lower at Guntersville. There was an article (one of those photo gallery type articles) on Bassmaster's website in 2016 discussing just that. I don't think the pressure has died down there because people keep seeing the pros catching em from the various tournament coverages. At least that's my theory anyway. ? I would venture to guess that a large portion of those average Joes that flood Guntersville every year also have unproductive fishing trips. At least compared to the standards of what we see caught on TV.

As as far trophies being caught at all the lakes you mentioned, that still doesn't statistically prove that catch rates overall have not decreased. Just saying.

I'm not trying to argue & I think we're actually on the same page. I really don't think big bass are smarter. I think they might be more conditioned & perhaps less likely to hit certain artificial baits. I mean to me, it logically makes sense. The bigger a bass, the older it is. The older it is, the more it's likely to have seen artificial lures & the more conditioned it is.

Like I said earlier I dunno for sure. At the end of the day most of what we're discussing is guesswork, although somewhat educated guesswork. But I stand by my statement that big bass are harder to catch. But that's part of what makes fishing more fun. Sure wouldn't mean near as much to me if I could go out & catch 10 pounders every trip like they were dinks.

I've been on Clearlake a bunch of times and have a few trips to Guntersville now. These two lakes are massive. The top end of Clearlake is an 11 mile wide clay bowl. A guy I knew went to Guntersville on the same day in his boat as I did. Later that night we compared trips, we had a pretty slow day, he did pretty well. He was 35 miles away from me as the crow flies. That's another county away in red states.

Toledo Bend dwarfs both of these. The Sac Delta has like 360 miles of water to fish.

I get the theory of a big bass seeing a bunch of lures on a small body of water. There are double digit fish in some of these mega lakes that have never seen a lure. It's a massive body of water with great habitat and weather. California had the rare combo of Florida and Northern hybrids which grow to be enormous mixed with endless trout stocking and great weather. Now the hybrid gene pool is well past the first generation, they barely plant trout anymore, and the water management is awful. California still produces good fish, but it's nothing like it was 30 years ago. The same guys are out there doing the same things with much different results.

There is no smart. There is being on the right water doing the right thing at the right time. If one thing is off in that triangle it's not happening.

TOXIC reply :

As a Guide, when a client tells me they want a "trophy" bass, I do not fish the same way as I do for a client who just wants to catch numbers. Are big bass smarter....No. But they do not act the same a schoolies or smaller fish and they don't live in the same places. That's why you hear the professionals talk about finding the "right" fish. They don't want to catch small bass in a tournament and that's one of the big things that separates them from your average Joe weekend angler, they have the habits and behavior of bigger bass figured out. I have an Elite Series angler stay with me every year and I prefish with him. They don't approach the water the same way most of us do.

Bass size is dependent on 2 things. Genetics and habitat.

slonezp reply :

On 4/13/2017 at 10:48 AM, wdp said:

But the catch rates are lower at Guntersville.

and bag weights are higher. Not all the time but every spring some guy in a tourney weighs in a huge bag. Last time I was down there, the guy who won the tourney weighed in 36lbs on day one and was throwing back 5 pounders by 9am, think I brought 17lbs to the scales on day 1 and with 17lbs, at the end of day one, I was sitting somewhere between 30th and 40th place out of 200 boats. Also, during practice, a local guide brought in a 15 pounder. Every spring since then I have read where tourney guys are weighing in bigger bags and within the last month a bag in the mid 40's was weighed in. Guntersville continues to produce big bass.

Paul Roberts reply :

There is some evidence that larger eyes with more vision cells let in more light and offer better resolution. Larger individual fish see better than smaller ones. Also, fish do learn from experience. In fact, this is pretty much what most of vertebrate life is all about. Fish actually are good learners. But, being fish, they are focused on different things than, say, we are. However, the basic infrastructure for learning -sensory and cognitive systems- are in place. Again, bass are darn good at being bass. And many bass die of a wise old age at only 2 or 3 lbs. Big certainly requires more food; more-so than "smarts".

As to bass learning about fishing. They do. Just too much evidence out there. They learn quickly and have memories too -basic infrastructure. And they learn from watching other fish -part of the social cognitive infrastructure.

Why do we still catch them? Variability in: sensory and cognitive capacities, "personality" (yes fish have individual personalities, as well as recognized personality types), environmental conditions and circumstances. Call it chaos. Why do we sometimes crash into other cars, even after driving for decades? Lotsa reasons.

I believe that edified fish -that's most of em nowadays- get hooked because they made a mistake. "Edified" in my mind means that those fish have become aware of "danger" brought about by the actions of angling. Some of the biggest decisions fish make revolve around just what they put into their mouths. Not everything passes muster all the time. Otherwise, we wouldn't be even talking about all this stuff.

wdp reply :

@slonezp and @Mosster47 you guys both bring up fair and valid points. And you're right, my experience draws from fishing small waters where conditioning of bass is much more drastic than on a large body of water like Guntersville, Clear Lake or Toledo Bend. But I'm in MS, we're not known for huge bodies of water, lol. And I don't tourney fish so my experience is limited in that realm as well.

But I would think that even on large bodies of water that some conditioning of bass in regards to artificials can happen, although to a much lesser degree and probably in only selective areas of the lake that get hammered the most by anglers.

I also agree that there are prob a lotta big fish that have never seen a lure. Which is why guys really good with the electronics can find em & catch em.

I think @Paul Roberts summed it up very well in his post above.

bagofdonuts reply :

They're smart enough to keep all of us fully occupied.

scaleface reply :

Un-pressured big bass are a lot easier to catch than pressured big bass . No doubt in my mind . Call it smarts or whatever .

Paul Roberts reply :

Here's a wise old/senescent bass, clipped from some video I shot yesterday.

He/she is not long for the world -no longer able to capture prey. It defeated amazing odds to reach this state. It's size? About 16" long, and about all that pond could afford her -not terribly fertile. Even the bluegills are small, and the two are certainly related.

A given bass could be very wise, having figured out a prosperous lifestyle, but not necessarily the one with the most growth potential in that water. An Ecologist would call this a trophic "false peak".

I photo and video many bass with hook-bruised or mangled jaws in my public waters that receive a parade of anglers almost every day of the week. But I also shoot many with clean undamaged jaws. "Smarter" in these cases could have to do with avoiding anglers, or predators, or finding the top trophic peak. But it's all for naught in terms of getting BIG, if the water can't support it.

In many, but not all, waters there are individuals that by capabilities and no small amount of luck are able to break the normal trophic limits of a given water body. They then have access to larger prey items too large for the vast majority of bass. Those are your BIG bass. Smart? Maybe. But "smarts" is only part of the formula. And I wouldn't discount the sheer amount of luck involved.

Bucky205 reply :

As many bass as we relocate here during tournaments, I think tey are all in the marinas. In reality bass live to be about 15 years old, with a growth rate somewhere between 1/2 to 1 pound a year. A lot of bass over 5 years old have probably been hooked at least once. I know if my food source fought back as hard as a rod and reel, I would find another food source.

.ghoti. reply :

On 4/16/2017 at 7:41 AM, Bucky205 said:

I know if my food source fought back as hard as a rod and reel, I would find another food source.

Next time you want some pork chops, get a knife, and go kill a pig. Betcha he fights back harder than a rod and reel. LOL

NCbassraider reply :

On 4/12/2017 at 1:38 AM, sully420 said:

Bass don't think they react, the biggest bass are the bass that eat the most. I read these forums and it's full of fisherman over thinking and over complicating bass fishing. Each tread like this has a core of very good anglers trying to steer Anglers away from this line of thought, it never ceases two amaze me how many people do not take this subtle common sense information to Heart.

Agreed. And the real big bass are rarely caught simply because they have no problem feeding. They have become better hunters and know where the food is.

Also, something that is over rarely mentioned is that they are territorial and when a big female moves into an area to feed, smaller bass move out of her way. I've seen this behavior many times in a smaller pond on my property that I stock.

In a body of water with plentiful food source, the monster bass simply don't need your lure.

slonezp reply :

On 4/16/2017 at 12:13 AM, Paul Roberts said:

Here's a wise old/senescent bass, clipped from some video I shot yesterday.

He/she is not long for the world -no longer able to capture prey. It defeated amazing odds to reach this state. It's size? About 16" long, and about all that pond could afford her -not terribly fertile. Even the bluegills are small, and the two are certainly related.

A given bass could be very wise, having figured out a prosperous lifestyle, but not necessarily the one with the most growth potential in that water. An Ecologist would call this a trophic "false peak".

I photo and video many bass with hook-bruised or mangled jaws in my public waters that receive a parade of anglers almost every day of the week. But I also shoot many with clean undamaged jaws. "Smarter" in these cases could have to do with avoiding anglers, or predators, or finding the top trophic peak. But it's all for naught in terms of getting BIG, if the water can't support it.

In many, but not all, waters there are individuals that by capabilities and no small amount of luck are able to break the normal trophic limits of a given water body. They then have access to larger prey items too large for the vast majority of bass. Those are your BIG bass. Smart? Maybe. But "smarts" is only part of the formula. And I wouldn't discount the sheer amount of luck involved.

So what makes you think the bass is old?

I fish a local lake occasionally that is managed...albeit poorly. Bass is catch and release and there are very conservative limits on panfish. The 300 acre lake does hold some bass in the 5-6lb range and has been known to give up pike over 40". The majority of the bass we have caught are emaciated and the crappies are definitely cannibalistic. I don't mark any bait on the graph and never see any swimming around. A number of years back during a small tournament, I weighed in a 16" bass that weighed 1lb 1oz. This one was caught 2 weeks ago. We didn't measure it but if I had to guess, maybe 17". So, let's say 90% of the bass are skinny. The other 10% are "normal" What do the 10% have that the 90% don't?...and don't say food.

scaleface reply :

On 4/12/2017 at 7:35 PM, Catt said:

Anthropomorphism is the attribution of human traits, emotions, and intentions to non-human entities.

Dont know how smart bass are but I'm feeling kind of dumb . I cant even pronounce that word .

Paul Roberts reply :

On 4/17/2017 at 10:38 AM, slonezp said:

So what makes you think the bass is old?

...

So, let's say 90% of the bass are skinny. The other 10% are "normal" What do the 10% have that the 90% don't?...and don't say food.

I don't know the age of that bass. But, younger fish generally have sharper edged fins -like the one the young man is holding. Old fish do not regenerate tissues as quickly as young fish and this seems to show up in the fins, their being rounded and more apt to be ragged. Same is true for trout.

I also catch plenty of skinny young bass. The possible reasons can vary. The most common one here is the combination of high summer water temps and dense vegetation. Body condition on my bass takes a nose dive during these times. Sometimes a certain size bracket tends to be thin, and my assumption is that there is a gap in the food chain. Similarly, in some waters I fish bass tend to peak out at a certain size, the larger fish then becoming thin. Then there can be sick fish. Caught one last fall actually that I could only assume was sick or injured -the most pathetic looking bass I've ever seen.

"90% are skinny, 10% are normal"... Not sure I've seen that. It's more apt to be the other way around. Best guesses (and they pretty much distill down to "food". Why can't I say "food"?):

-A trophic peak exists that only 10% of bass are able to make use of. Not terribly likely I would suspect.

-A separate basin in with very different trophic status.

-Warm water discharge where some fish avoid excessively heated water and others set up home ranges near it.

-You ran from one end of a large lake for 90% of your catch, and to the other end for the remaining 10%.

What are your thoughts?

slonezp reply :

On 4/18/2017 at 7:52 AM, Paul Roberts said:

"90% are skinny, 10% are normal"... Not sure I've seen that. It's more apt to be the other way around. Best guesses (and they pretty much distill down to "food". Why can't I say "food"?):

-A trophic peak exists that only 10% of bass are able to make use of. Not terribly likely I would suspect.

-A separate basin in with very different trophic status.

-Warm water discharge where some fish avoid excessively heated water and others set up home ranges near it.

-You ran from one end of a large lake for 90% of your catch, and to the other end for the remaining 10%.

What are your thoughts?

First pic is from a friendly 2 boat tourney last June. My son and I caught between 30 and 40 bass fishing offshore in 8-12fow while his buddies caught 7 fish beating the banks. Obviously we kept the largest fish. As I mentioned earlier, the lake is 300 acres. It has a max depth of 28ft and the weedline ends at around 15ft and the lake is essentially a soup bowl with little structure. Second pic I believe is crappie that were spit up in my livewell by crappie. The crappie were caught in 20fow last fall. I would assume if there were an abundance of bait, the crappie would not be cannibalistic. Last 2 pics are from a few years ago early spring. The pike's head is disproportional to its body. I realize this is a somewhat common trait among pike, but it helps illustrate my point. Also another skinny bass. For what it's worth, the bulk of the fishing pressure on this lake is thru the ice.

Paul Roberts reply :

Might those bass in the first pic be post-spawners that haven't rebounded yet? The smaller ones look like males that have recently come off guard duty.

The pike: Pike, esp older larger ones, are temperature sensitive. Unlike younger "hammer handles", big pike are nearly a coldwater fish. If that pike couldn't find cold water in that lake, or hasn't migrated there yet, it could be in decline. Looks healthy though, so it could rebound -but maybe not till late fall when water temps fall. You say early spring... possibly post- spawn?

I definitely would not assume that those crappie wouldn't be cannibalistic if they had other choices. As far as I know, everything in the right size bracket, and catchable, is fair game in the fish world. Catchability plays a role for sure. And young shad may be easier to catch than cover-oriented young crappies. But that's a guess and appropriate cover availability would be important there.

Just some thoughts.

I'm going to take back my above statement that I haven't seen a good percentage of thin vs normal body condition in a bass population. Happened just this past summer. Here was my take:

We had an unseasonably hot (record) June and into July here. 100F air temps and water in mid80s. Nearly killed the daytime fishing. Worked hard for few fish and those were thin. This is not uncommon when its really hot in mid-summer. But this began in June! Some of these fish may not have had the opportunity to regain body condition after spawning. Usually June and into July are ideal in temperature for bass growth here and they tend to be in excellent body condition.

Forward a month to August and cold fronts brought relief, and daytime fishing rebounded. What was interesting was that while most fish were thin (but healthy) a few were porkers -one had a good-sized bluegill in it's throat, and another was simply a tank. All the ones in good body condition came from the same cove. I'd already walked the pond prior to fishing (from shore and float tube) and found a concentration of bluegills in this cove. There were appropriate sized bluegills in another cove across the pond, but the milfoil was much denser there. My assumption is that hunting conditions were different in opposite coves. The bass in the dense cove were sitting in a trophic false peak, while those across the pond were sitting pretty.

Meager side of the pond:

Fat side of the pond:

The "tank" was not the only big fish I caught. I also caught another of the same length in a different section of the pond that was thin. I actually caught her twice: First in the thick of the heat wave and she was very thin. I caught her again after things had cooled down and while she was still on the thin side, she was rebounding nicely.

This is all conjecture of course. I do not have the tools at my disposal to really be definitive about these things -esp concerning individual fish- in my small ponds much less lakes I've never been to. Energy flow is what we're looking at, but there are a bunch of variables involved in the works. Some are more important than others, and these shift around depending on conditions.

For all I know, the bass on the one side of my pond are smarter than the ones on the other. But I kinda doubt it. I'd love to think that that tank was "smarter" than the rest, only able to caught by a cagey fisherman. She didn't have any other hook marks, so.. maybe!

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