Pros purposefully misleading about their sponsors baits? 2024
SissySticks reply :
Like probably most of us, I enjoy the "top ten baits of ______ tournament" posts from FLW, MLF, and BASS tourneys. Helps me get a sense of what pros use in certain conditions. But, one thing that comes out pretty shamelessly in some cases is the captions will mention a pro's sponsors' products when the picture makes it pretty clear the pro wasn't actually using his sponsor's product. Case in point: on the Conroe MLF "top 10 baits" post, the caption states David Walker was using the Zman Batwingz trailer on his jig, when the picture makes it plainly obvious he's using a Zoom Super Chunk (the dimples are a dead giveaway). Obviously, this happens all the time though, not just Walker.
Does this bug anyone else? Are the writers screwing this up or are the anglers being misleading?
J Francho reply :
I could care less what specific bait a pro is using, and pay more attention to what they're doing with the bait.
Tennessee Boy reply :
I can't say it bugs me that much. It is a fact of life. Pros are loyal to their sponsors and they should be. I guess it also makes them liars in some cases which is not admirable. I question everyone's motives when they give me advice. I think most of what we hear from pros and the fishing press in general is 90% BS. I trust the opinions on this forum with the discussion and give and take far more as a source of information than say Bassmaster Magazine.
RichF reply :
Not really. I just assume they're only throwing Yamamoto senkos 99.9% of the time anyway.
J Francho reply :
On 3/8/2019 at 12:08 AM, RichF said:Not really. I just assume they're only throwing Yamamoto senkos 99.9% of the time anyway.
I had to follow Pete Gluzik at a fishing seminar in NYC several years back. It was just after his big open win on Cayuga Lake. He was talking about throwing senkos being key to his win. We all laughed and said, at least he actually admitted to throwing senkos all day.
SissySticks reply :
On 3/8/2019 at 12:08 AM, RichF said:Not really. I just assume they're only throwing Yamamoto senkos 99.9% of the time anyway.
LOL. Aren't we all?
GReb reply :
I’d wager most are going to use whatever works the best and hype whatever product pays the most. That may not always be the same product. A lot of these guys aren’t making mega $$$ like in other sports. It’s hard to blame them honestly.
the reel ess reply :
Notice how often the shows that feature touring pros are really 30 minute infomercials for the latest innovative new bait? The same bait that will be on clearance at Dick's at the end of the season.
SissySticks reply :
Honestly, I think it bugs me more not even because of the dishonesty, really, since you're all right that they have to make a living. Weirdly I think it's more because it just seems so silly. Walker could easily have threaded a Zman Batwingz on there before the pic, and no one would be the wiser. If I was Zman, I'd be mad he didn't.
ratherbfishin1 reply :
That is the reason I don't get into all the "use what the pros use" stuff. I can't blame them for being loyal to their sponsors but they don't care if "x" Squarebill even catches fish if they're getting paid to say it does, they likely will say it does. They might not never even throw a certain lure but say it's one of their "go-to" lures. So in short, yes it does bother me a little, however, you can't really blame them much.
TOXIC reply :
They all work for the Bait Monkey.
Glaucus reply :
On the one hand, they have to make money.
On the other hand, they're pushing baits that they know aren't very good to people who don't have their kind of money.
In the end, we all have the duty to pay attention and not base our decision making on what we think everyone else is doing.
J Francho reply :
This *IS* pretty obvious, though I see two other rigs in the background with jigs tied up. Maybe those were the Batwingsz and he just grabbed the wrong rig? It's also possible that he didn't write the quote.
Glenn reply :
Doesn't bother me. It's business....and CYA.
If you worked for a company on a year-by-year contract basis, where they will fire you if you don't meet (sometimes) lofty and difficult-to-measure goals (e.g. "David, how many sales did you generate from that brand mention?"), you'd be in a situation where everyday you must prove your value over and over again.
On 3/8/2019 at 12:21 AM, Glaucus said:they're pushing baits that they know aren't very good to people who don't have their kind of money.
I disagree. Most, if not all pros, won't sign a contract with a company/brand they don't like. They won't associate their name with them.
David likely ran out of his sponsor's baits, and had to dig into his tacklebox to find something similar. Otherwise I'm certain he would have it on his bait for the pictures. David is a long-time pro and doesn't make mistakes like that.
Tennessee Boy reply :
On 3/8/2019 at 12:19 AM, TOXIC said:They all work for the Bait Monkey.
Yeah...Sometimes you have to buy the bait JUST IN CASE they're telling the truth. 
SissySticks reply :
On 3/8/2019 at 12:22 AM, J Francho said:This *IS* pretty obvious, though I see two other rigs in the background with jigs tied up. Maybe those were the Batwingsz and he just grabbed the wrong rig? It's also that he didn't write the quote.
That is a good point, though again, if I were Zman, I'd be ticked off about this particular instance of "grabbing the wrong one." I also think that swimbait trailer might be a Reaction Innovations, not a Diesel minnow, but it's harder to tell.
On 3/8/2019 at 12:24 AM, Glenn said:Doesn't bother me. It's business....and CYA.
If you worked for a company on a year-by-year contract basis, where they will fire you if you don't meet (sometimes) lofty and difficult-to-measure goals (e.g. "David, how many sales did you generate from that brand mention?"), you'd be in a situation where everyday you must prove your value over and over again.
I disagree. Most, if not all pros, won't sign a contract with a company/brand they don't like. They won't associate their name with them.
David likely ran out of his sponsor's baits, and had to dig into his tacklebox to find something similar. Otherwise I'm certain he would have it on his bait for the pictures. David is a long-time pro and doesn't make mistakes like that.
I hear you, I'm not picking on David so much as a general trend I've noticed. David seems like a good enough guy. In other news, how does one run out of Zman plastics? I suspect you could be on a pretty good jig bite and still only use 1 trailer the whole week. 
J Francho reply :
On 3/8/2019 at 12:24 AM, Glenn said:David likely ran out of his sponsor's baits, and had to dig into his tacklebox to find something similar. Otherwise I'm certain he would have it on his bait for the pictures. David is a long-time pro and doesn't make mistakes like that.
That's probably the most reasonable explanation. Didn't think of that!
NYWayfarer reply :
On 3/8/2019 at 12:22 AM, J Francho said:This *IS* pretty obvious, though I see two other rigs in the background with jigs tied up. Maybe those were the Batwingsz and he just grabbed the wrong rig? It's also possible that he didn't write the quote.
Thanks for the pic.
I think he grabbed the wrong rig. That makes more sense than thinking he is purposely misleading us as this hurts his pocket if the sponsoring company finds out.
As a sponsor I would want something in the contract that says he is using my baits exclusively but that's another story.
MIbassyaker reply :
I could not possibly care less about this.
Here's what I get from that picture of Walker: He was using jigs. He had a shad-looking one with a paddletail, and he had a bluegill/craw looking one with a chunk.
J Francho reply :
On 3/8/2019 at 12:31 AM, NYWayfarer said:As a sponsor I would want something in the contract that says he is using my baits exclusively but that's another story.
Depends on the contract. When I was sponsored by Wilderness Systems, I was encouraged to get seat time in other companies' boats. Bonus points if you did a boat swap. That way, you got more hands on exposure to the brand, and learned how to differentiate your sponsor from others.
NYWayfarer reply :
On 3/8/2019 at 12:35 AM, J Francho said:Depends on the contract. When I was sponsored by Wilderness Systems, I was encouraged to get seat time in other companies' boats. Bonus points if you did a boat swap. That way, you got more hands on exposure to the brand, and learned how to differentiate your sponsor from others.
I have seen "partnership" type sponsorships for YouTubers that seem similar to what you have described. They want you to use their equipment but don't mind if you use others for comparison and exposure.
J Francho reply :
Oi, YouTubers ruined everything! 
It's even altered the landscape of endorsement deals for musicians. I even hear them say, "I'm endorsed by so-and-so..." No, bud. You endorse them, lol. Skateboarding is even been affected. Turning "pro" is not the same anymore.
12poundbass reply :
Was this an article or video? If it was an article then this hiccup could be the result of the writer/photographer using the wrong photo and not necessarily David ‘misleading’ you or using a different bait.
It doesn’t bother me one bit if they use other lures than what they’re saying. You don’t bite the hand that feeds you.
Maybe I'm in the minority here but I would have never know the difference. I can’t pick out what bait is made by who and what model it is. There are a few hard baits that I might have a fighting chance a guessing. Soft plastics other than maybe a Senko nope not a chance. Blows my mind when someone on here posts a picture asking what lure this or that is and 2 seconds later there are 5 replies with make, model, and color.
J Francho reply :
On 3/8/2019 at 12:49 AM, 12poundbass said:Was this an article or video?
https://majorleaguefishing.com/bass-pro-tour/top-10-baits-how-the-10-best-tackled-lake-conroe/
OCdockskipper reply :
On 3/8/2019 at 12:24 AM, Glenn said:Doesn't bother me. It's business....
It's fine that it doesn't bother you, but don't try to rationalize it as being "business". Business does not have to be lying to potential customers, one can be truthful & have ethics.
You can run your business however you choose, but how truthful you are with your potential customers is a reflection of your ethics, not of how business's have to operate.
kenmitch reply :
On 3/8/2019 at 12:19 AM, TOXIC said:They all work for the Bait Monkey.
He's a master at marketing and looks to be rolling in the dough....Can you blame him for man's weaknesses.
SissySticks reply :
On 3/8/2019 at 12:49 AM, 12poundbass said:Was this an article or video? If it was an article then this hiccup could be the result of the writer/photographer using the wrong photo and not necessarily David ‘misleading’ you or using a different bait.
You're right, could be the writer, but having done some of that kind of writing myself, usually the pro asks you to make sure to mention "x" sponsor in the article/caption/etc. Not always, and again, not in any way an indictment of Walker specifically, his photo is just where I happened to notice it this time around. As was said earlier, could very well be he ran out, too.
12poundbass reply :
On 3/8/2019 at 12:50 AM, J Francho said:https://majorleaguefishing.com/bass-pro-tour/top-10-baits-how-the-10-best-tackled-lake-conroe/
Ok so possibly a photographer posting the wrong picture is plausible. Not that it really matters.
He was using a hook with a hard metal head that was painted with pretty colors, that had rubbery dangly things that looked like spaghetti, and the hook thingy had a bug looking thing that had pinchers on it to catch his fish. ????
J Francho reply :
There are SEVERAL errors in the captions. One picture doesn't even show the right type of bait mentioned.
12poundbass reply :
On 3/8/2019 at 12:53 AM, kenmitch said:
He's a master at marketing and looks to be rolling in the dough....Can you blame him for man's weaknesses.
Probably the best post of the day right here! LMAO
SissySticks reply :
On 3/8/2019 at 12:55 AM, J Francho said:There are SEVERAL errors in the captions. One picture doesn't even show the right type of bait mentioned.
True. Which begs the question, are pros misleading the writer or is the writing staff over there at MLF just so careless they've unintentionally made pros look like liars? If so, I would be major league mad at the writing staff if I was Walker or any of the others.
thedilettantedad reply :
One of the few truths I learned in my short life was to be an educated consumer. It is their job to sell you something, it is your job to decide to buy it or not.
EWREX reply :
it really all comes down to money with sponsors. do you honestly think scott martin want's to use favorite fishing rods and googan baits? both of those companies are cutting him a ridiculously large check to use and promote both products.
Gundog reply :
Ever see that commercial with Randy Howell for Livingston Lures where Randy says "He choked it!"? In an interview he admitted that he caught his first bass off that spot with a different company's lure. Then changed to a Livingston. My opinion, how he caught it and what made him fish that spot is more important to me than the brand he used. Man's gotta make a living.
12poundbass reply :
On 3/8/2019 at 12:58 AM, SissySticks said:True. Which begs the question, are pros misleading the writer or is the writing staff over there at MLF just so careless they've unintentionally made pros look like liars? If so, I would be major league mad at the writing staff if I was Walker or any of the others.
I think you’re looking a little too far into this. I’m chalking it up to an honest mistake. Nothing more, nothing less.
Dwbassin reply :
It kinda is ethically wrong to lie about it as an angler to the fans, but they gotta make their money. That’s on whoever publishes this said photo. If it was him who published and directly stated on an interview holding a zoom or whatever in a video, yea he’s in the wrong. I trust certain things like when lee won the classic the second time gman got up on stage stating he buys jackhammers out of pocket like everyone else. Just what they use as tactics is what should be noted cause everyone knows business is business
See Scott Martin switching to favorite rods, never heard him yet talking about reel sponsors but when it comes down to it he has shimano reels now. Unless I’m missing a video or statement from him that shows they are just like us and have choices but when you sign those contracts that goes out the window
Missouri Rigging reply :
I understand the frustration. Defiantly watching these guys and trying to get into bass fishing. Idk about the rest of you guys but when I was getting into fishing I would see what the pros used and wanted to buy what they use because if they caught fish ik I could too. With saying that I have became more experienced in fishing and figure out that yes the brand matters sometimes but I can still go out to the lake a catch just as many bass with a salty craw (which you never hear about anymore) as someone using a rage tail.
On 3/8/2019 at 12:53 AM, OCdockskipper said:It's fine that it doesn't bother you, but don't try to rationalize it as being "business". Business does not have to be lying to potential customers, one can be truthful & have ethics.
You can run your business however you choose, but how truthful you are with your potential customers is a reflection of your ethics, not of how business's have to operate.
Glaucus reply :
On 3/8/2019 at 1:02 AM, EWREX said:it really all comes down to money with sponsors. do you honestly think scott martin want's to use favorite fishing rods and googan baits? both of those companies are cutting him a ridiculously large check to use and promote both products.
Googan plastics, while not durable, are pretty good.
J Francho reply :
Why on earth would you show a spinnerbait, and say it's a chatterbait?
It's poor or sloppy reporting.
RichF reply :
On 3/8/2019 at 12:12 AM, SissySticks said:LOL. Aren't we all?
Not me. I almost never have one tied on. I've never even bought a bag of Yamas!
12poundbass reply :
On 3/8/2019 at 1:37 AM, J Francho said:Why on earth would you show a spinnerbait, and say it's a chatterbait?
It's poor or sloppy reporting.
Isn’t that par for the course in that field? ????
Glaucus reply :
On 3/8/2019 at 1:45 AM, RichF said:Not me. I almost never have one tied on. I've never even bought a bag of Yamas!
MIbassyaker reply :
On 3/8/2019 at 1:37 AM, J Francho said:Why on earth would you show a spinnerbait, and say it's a chatterbait?
It's poor or sloppy reporting.
Now that I see the picture series, it seems pretty clear that whatever detailed information the pros gave about the lures they were using, those statements were not given with the intent of captioning these particular pictures.
Spankey reply :
On 3/8/2019 at 1:02 AM, EWREX said:it really all comes down to money with sponsors. do you honestly think scott martin want's to use favorite fishing rods and googan baits? both of those companies are cutting him a ridiculously large check to use and promote both products.
I agree with that. Something doesn’t smell quite right there.
But than again there are more holes in that business than this guys story. I’m a bit old school when it comes to Brands I use.
Glaucus reply :
On 3/8/2019 at 2:05 AM, Spankey said:I agree with that. Something doesn’t smell quite right there.
But than again there are more holes in that business than this guys story. I’m a bit old school when it comes to Brands I use.
You should have seen the video Lake Fork Guy dropped the other day. He went to Florida for a wedding and only brought a spinning reel with him. He went to the store and got a cheap rod to pair it up with to fish on his last day with 3 hours to go before his flight home. The reel juuuuuust happened to be the Googan reel off their $60 combo. He was putting it on display HARD lol. He made sure every shot showed the Googan branding on it.
The thing sounded like an ancient coffee grinder. It was so bad and so obvious that he got blasted in the comments. I've never heard a new reel sound so bad.
But the plastics are good.
TOXIC reply :
Easy way around it.........carry only your sponsor's baits.......period. You will not find another plastic in my boat besides Yamamoto. There's no way I could ever take a picture of anything else, unless someone else brought it aboard. There is no way I could run out and have to use a competitors bait. 
GReb reply :
On 3/8/2019 at 2:17 AM, TOXIC said:Easy way around it.........carry only your sponsor's baits.......period. You will not find another plastic in my boat besides Yamamoto. There's no way I could ever take a picture of anything else, unless someone else brought it aboard. There is no way I could run out and have to use a competitors bait.
Side note. Jacob wheeler hinted that they can no longer borrow baits from competitors once competition starts so he has to be sure and bring plenty of everything under the new format.
fishballer06 reply :
Pro's have been doing it for years. It's no secret. The most important part to try to take away from it is what style of bait were they using, what kind of water were they using it in, and why was that area the right area for that presentation.
Randy Howell won the classic throwing a demon DT6 almost the entire tournament. On the final day he switched to a Livingston crankbait and he weighed in one fish off that bait. Yet that Livingston bait got all the credit for winning the tournament. Here's a little excerpt from his Bassmaster article whenever he won.
QuoteHis Classic lure arsenal included a Livingston Lures model being developed within the Pro Series. Not yet available to the public, it’s a medium diver in a crawfish color. He also used a Rapala DT6 crankbait in the “demon” crawfish color and a Yamamoto bladed jig.
Jacob Wheeler for years was sponsored by Okuma. However, if you watch any of his YouTube videos through all those years, he's clearly using Shimano Stradic ci4+ spinning reels anytime he has a fairy wand in his hand.
Scott Martin put out a video the other week showing one of the largest bass he's ever caught. After the catch, he broke down all of his equipment calling out the hook, bait, line, and rod. I commented on his video "You're not going to give that Shimano Metanium any credit for winching that fish out for you?". Scott replied to my YT comment with a emoji. Clearly his words in his video were carefully made.
My favorite line is whenever articles will say "KVD was using an un-named jerkbait". Basically meaning, hey this guy wasn't using his sponsors bait, and we know it but we're not going to get the guy in trouble over it.
MIbassyaker reply :
On 3/8/2019 at 2:33 AM, fishballer06 said:Pro's have been doing it for years. It's no secret. The most important part to try to take away from it is what style of bait were they using, what kind of water were they using it in, and why was that area the right area for that presentation.
Randy Howell won the classic throwing a demon DT6 almost the entire tournament. On the final day he switched to a Livingston crankbait and he weighed in one fish off that bait. Yet that Livingston bait got all the credit for winning the tournament. Here's a little excerpt from his Bassmaster article whenever he won.
Jacob Wheeler for years was sponsored by Okuma. However, if you watch any of his YouTube videos through all those years, he's clearly using Shimano Stradic ci4+ spinning reels anytime he has a fairy wand in his hand.
Scott Martin put out a video the other week showing one of the largest bass he's ever caught. After the catch, he broke down all of his equipment calling out the hook, bait, line, and rod. I commented on his video "You're not going to give that Shimano Metanium any credit for winching that fish out for you?". Scott replied to my YT comment with a
My favorite line is whenever articles will say "KVD was using an un-named jerkbait". Basically meaning, hey this guy wasn't using his sponsors bait, and we know it but we're not going to get the guy in trouble over it.
The key principle here is, the purpose of a sponsorship is not necessarily for the pro to use the bait, it is for the pro to help sell the bait.
J Francho reply :
On 3/8/2019 at 2:41 AM, MIbassyaker said:it is for the pro to help sell the bait.
This is it. They sponsor you and you help sell the product. Most think it's just about free tackle. It isn't.
Glenn reply :
On 3/8/2019 at 2:05 AM, Spankey said:do you honestly think scott martin want's to use favorite fishing rods and googan baits?
He's an investor in both companies. So...yes.
NYWayfarer reply :
On 3/8/2019 at 3:57 AM, Glenn said:He's an investor in both companies. So...yes.
Even got his dear old Dad, Roland using them.
Roland drops YouTube videos every Wednesday and Sunday.
Glaucus reply :
A lot of those Favorite rods are gimmicky.
https://www.tacklewarehouse.com/Favorite_Casting_Rods/catpage-FAVEC.html
MN Fisher reply :
On 3/8/2019 at 4:28 AM, Glaucus said:A lot of those Favorite rods are gimmicky.
https://www.tacklewarehouse.com/Favorite_Casting_Rods/catpage-FAVEC.html
My question is - two rods of the same model but one has a Pro's name attached for an extra charge...is there a functional difference between them or are you just paying for a name?
Glaucus reply :
On 3/8/2019 at 4:34 AM, MN Fisher said:My question is - two rods of the same model but one has a Pro's name attached for an extra charge...is there a functional difference between them or are you just paying for a name?
I don't use them so I'm not sure. I'd bet that you're paying for your YouTube hero's name.
MN Fisher reply :
On 3/8/2019 at 4:36 AM, Glaucus said:I don't use them so I'm not sure. I'd bet that you're paying for your YouTube hero's name.
Well, since the main YouTube channel I watch for Bass Fishing information is BR's own...when's @Glenngetting his own line of rods and reels?
Spankey reply :
On 3/8/2019 at 2:12 AM, Glaucus said:You should have seen the video Lake Fork Guy dropped the other day. He went to Florida for a wedding and only brought a spinning reel with him. He went to the store and got a cheap rod to pair it up with to fish on his last day with 3 hours to go before his flight home. The reel juuuuuust happened to be the Googan reel off their $60 combo. He was putting it on display HARD lol. He made sure every shot showed the Googan branding on it.
The thing sounded like an ancient coffee grinder. It was so bad and so obvious that he got blasted in the comments. I've never heard a new reel sound so bad.
But the plastics are good.
Yeah, I’m not gonna be blasting anyone or really products too much on here. I just do my own thing but we all can smell something BS sometime.
Glaucus reply :
On 3/8/2019 at 4:43 AM, MN Fisher said:Well, since the main YouTube channel I watch for Bass Fishing information is BR's own...when's @Glenngetting his own line of rods and reels?
To be clear I didn't literally mean your as in you. Those sticks with names on them are YouTube fisherman. They got on the scene early, gathered hundreds of thousands of even a million plus subscribers, started making unimaginable money off their channels, got together over the years, and now they're the Googan Squad.
That's why I call them gimmicky. Making rods to bear the names of YouTube stars. Also baseball rods. It's like getting an expensive Spiderman rod LOL
Those guys have a cult following and they're taking advantage of it. I mean I would too.
fishballer06 reply :
On 3/8/2019 at 4:28 AM, Glaucus said:A lot of those Favorite rods are gimmicky.
https://www.tacklewarehouse.com/Favorite_Casting_Rods/catpage-FAVEC.html
I've never even looked at the price of their rods, but I clicked that link and saw a $350 model. I wonder how many people are buying this stick over the likes of a Megabass, GLoomis, St. Croix, or Dobyns in that price range.
Glaucus reply :
On 3/8/2019 at 4:51 AM, fishballer06 said:I've never even looked at the price of their rods, but I clicked that link and saw a $350 model. I wonder how many people are buying this stick over the likes of a Megabass, GLoomis, St. Croix, or Dobyns in that price range.
Young people who grew up on watching Jon B, LFG, Peric, Lunkers TV etc. They taught a lot of people how to fish before they became a business.
NYWayfarer reply :
On 3/8/2019 at 4:34 AM, MN Fisher said:My question is - two rods of the same model but one has a Pro's name attached for an extra charge...is there a functional difference between them or are you just paying for a name?
I'd hardly call the Googan Squad pros 
They are the same rod just different color schemes and the squad members name on them.
On 3/8/2019 at 4:49 AM, Glaucus said:That's why I call them gimmicky. Making rods to bear the names of YouTube stars. Also baseball rods. It's like getting an expensive Spiderman rod LOL
Don't forget their KISS rod! Funny but I can't picture Gene Simmons fishing.
Spankey reply :
On 3/8/2019 at 3:57 AM, Glenn said:He's an investor in both companies. So...yes.
Dude that’s not my quote. Just happened to agree with it. No big deal. I really do care all that much what Scott Martian pushes or anyone else. Most guys here I would think are not soft a puddy and can think for themselves.
Everything I own is paid for by myself. I don’t have a boat full or garage full of freebies.
Vilas15 reply :
On 3/8/2019 at 2:12 AM, Glaucus said:The thing sounded like an ancient coffee grinder. It was so bad and so obvious that he got blasted in the comments. I've never heard a new reel sound so bad.
I checked it out thinking how bad can it be? ???? I agree with one of the comments "sounds like it has gravel for bearings".
GReb reply :
All of those YouTube stars are my age. I was in college when it exploded. Sucks that I was too busy drinking beer and chasing sorority girls around. Could of been rich!!
MassYak85 reply :
On 3/8/2019 at 12:53 AM, OCdockskipper said:It's fine that it doesn't bother you, but don't try to rationalize it as being "business". Business does not have to be lying to potential customers, one can be truthful & have ethics.
You can run your business however you choose, but how truthful you are with your potential customers is a reflection of your ethics, not of how business's have to operate.
I'd agree. It's easy for people on this forum who have fished for a while to shrug off "brand pushing" because they know the brand of lure is rarely the deciding factor in catching a fish. The issue is the people who are getting into the sport and don't know better and will buy exactly what a professional tells them to buy.
Glaucus reply :
On 3/8/2019 at 5:02 AM, GReb said:All of those YouTube stars are my age. I was in college when it exploded. Sucks that I was too busy drinking beer and chasing sorority girls around. Could of been rich!!
Right?! I learned from reading and somehow I ended up on YouTube to see how things were done. I didn't catch on that it was a big thing until far too late. Now there are many far better channels with far better fisherman with far better personalities and they don't have a fraction of the following because it's essentially owned by these stars. It's almost impossible for a new channel to take off. Ndyakangler has some of the best content in my opinion. He's been at it for like 5 years but sits at 20k subscribers while Jon B and Lunkers sit at 1 million.
To their credit they try to help other channels take off but it just doesn't work.
soflabasser reply :
It is a well known fact that many in the bass fishing industry are deceitful when it comes to what products they recommend. They will say they caught a bass on their sponsors overpriced lure when in reality they caught that bass on an established, better priced, older brand like Rapala, Zoom, and other lure companies that don't need to advertise themselves much. Same can be said for those fish with Shimano reels in tournaments yet advertise some other reel company since they are sponsored by that company.
MIbassyaker reply :
Is it wrong of me to sort of smugly enjoy the spectacle of humble, earnest fishermen discovering, to their distaste and dismay, that the fishing industry is.........an industry?
I mean ethics are great and all, but there's product to move.
12poundbass reply :
On 3/8/2019 at 6:32 AM, MIbassyaker said:Is it wrong of me to sort of smugly enjoy the spectacle of humble, earnest fishermen discovering, to their distaste and dismay, that the fishing industry is.........an industry?
I mean ethics are great and all, but there's product to move.
You mean there is no magic lure that will catch fish all day every day? ????
Glaucus reply :
On 3/8/2019 at 6:32 AM, MIbassyaker said:Is it wrong of me to sort of smugly enjoy the spectacle of humble, earnest fishermen discovering, to their distaste and dismay, that the fishing industry is.........an industry?
I mean ethics are great and all, but there's product to move.
Our industry prides itself on ethics and morality, and being different than other sports and businesses. It's a people first industry. Well, that's the idea they give off, and for the most part that's true. That's the problem I think, but in the end it's the corporate elites being all about money.
MIbassyaker reply :
On 3/8/2019 at 6:49 AM, 12poundbass said:You mean there is no magic lure that will catch fish all day every day? ????
Of course there is! Give me a second first to check my current list of sponsors, and I'll be happy to tell you what it is.
WRB reply :
Before you condem a professional bass angler for promoting their sponsors put yourself in their shoes. Everyone of those pro's worked very hard to get where they are at by fishing tournaments and doing well enough to earn the sponsors backing. Do you think the pro is going to risk losing a top paying sponsor by being dishonest and losing all the sponsors. On the other hand every pro has pet lures they have confidence using that may no longer be a current sponsor they catch bass on, usually something no longer in production or something they have tricked out and don't disclose those lures, it's called competitive bass fishing.
Tom
GReb reply :
On 3/8/2019 at 6:50 AM, Glaucus said:Our industry prides itself on ethics and morality, and being different than other sports and businesses. It's a people first industry. Well, that's the idea they give off, and for the most part that's true. That's the problem I think, but in the end it's the corporate elites being all about money.
Derek Hubnall turned himself in for accidentally practicing within the 28 day period this week. Got DQ’d from the Hartwell tournament. So it’s not all lying, cheating, and stealing.
MIbassyaker reply :
On 3/8/2019 at 6:50 AM, Glaucus said:Our industry prides itself on ethics and morality, and being different than other sports and businesses. It's a people first industry. Well, that's the idea they give off, and for the most part that's true. That's the problem I think, but in the end it's the corporate elites being all about money.
That perception has been sold to you as well, right along with all the material stuff. And it worked -- you bought it.
The fishing industry does not differ from any other industry on the planet in this regard.
Glaucus reply :
On 3/8/2019 at 6:58 AM, MIbassyaker said:
That perception has been sold to you as well, right along with all the material stuff. And it worked -- you bought it.
The fishing industry does not differ from any other industry on the planet in this regard.
It's still beautiful to me. ????
ratherbfishin1 reply :
Dang, that googan reel sounds terrible!!
Glaucus reply :
On 3/8/2019 at 7:09 AM, ratherbfishin1 said:Dang, that googan reel sounds terrible!!
You just know he and the squad want to take the video down. Marketing fail. But the damage is done and it would be a bad look.
jbsoonerfan reply :
Do people really buy fishing products based off who endorses them? A few, maybe. A lot, doubtful. The reason I say this, Quantum has to be the least used reel that I know of yet the best Angler in the world for many years was their main man.
Dwbassin reply :
On 3/8/2019 at 5:24 AM, Glaucus said:Right?! I learned from reading and somehow I ended up on YouTube to see how things were done. I didn't catch on that it was a big thing until far too late. Now there are many far better channels with far better fisherman with far better personalities and they don't have a fraction of the following because it's essentially owned by these stars. It's almost impossible for a new channel to take off. Ndyakangler has some of the best content in my opinion. He's been at it for like 5 years but sits at 20k subscribers while Jon B and Lunkers sit at 1 million.
To their credit they try to help other channels take off but it just doesn't work.
Ndyakangler and Alex Rudd should have so much more but they cut a lot of crap out to target certain people I think the younger guys do. I’m glad though cause they are sooooo much more enjoyable to watch. Jon b and lunkers to me make good content but I obviously prefer the channels that are more fishing oriented (Jon b mostly is) IMO, some of the guys that exploded lost their way with explaining tactics and what they used and just seem to clickbait
ike8120 reply :
It doesn't bother me at all. It whats catching fish that day or that moment. All about marketing and keeping the bait monkey fed
soflabasser reply :
On 3/8/2019 at 6:32 AM, MIbassyaker said:Is it wrong of me to sort of smugly enjoy the spectacle of humble, earnest fishermen discovering, to their distaste and dismay, that the fishing industry is.........an industry?
I mean ethics are great and all, but there's product to move.
Is it wrong for me to sort of smugly enjoy knowing the fact that there are northerners in muskie waters that have never caught a muskie yet I caught a muskie in my first day of fishing for them while on a weekend vacation? If a person falls into this ''northerner who never caught a muskie in his life group'' then it might make them a little salty knowing that? That salty feeling is very similar to the feeling many gullible newbies in bass fishing have when they buy overhyped gear and realize they did not get what they expected. That is one of the many reasons why I focus more of my time learning on the water to improve my bass fishing game and not so much time on other sources of unreliable information about bass fishing
MN Fisher reply :
On 3/8/2019 at 7:55 AM, soflabasser said:Is it wrong for me to sort of smugly enjoy knowing the fact that there are northerners in muskie waters that have never caught a muskie yet I caught a muskie in my first day of fishing for them while on weekend vacation? If a person falls into this ''northerner who never caught a muskie in his life group'' then it might make them a little salty knowing that? That salty feeling is very similar to the feeling many gullible newbies in bass fishing have when they buy overhyped gear and realize they did not get what they expected. That is one of the many reasons why I focus more of my time learning on the water to improve my own game and not so much time to other sources of unreliable information about bass fishing.
Lived in MN since 1974 - with a 4 year break due to the Air Force. Never caught a Muskie in my life...and I don't care. I've never targeted them, so why would I worry if I haven't caught one?
Far as the over-hyped gear. I buy what
A. I can afford
and
B. What I think will work.
So far that viewpoint hasn't let me down.
soflabasser reply :
On 3/8/2019 at 7:09 AM, ratherbfishin1 said:Dang, that googan reel sounds terrible!!
Saw the video and I agree with you. Youtubers will keep advertising these reels as long as they get paid you can bet on that!
On 3/8/2019 at 4:03 AM, NYWayfarer said:Even got his dear old Dad, Roland using them.
Roland drops YouTube videos every Wednesday and Sunday.
Remember the helicopter lure? My grandfather bought me a couple of them when I was a kid. Those lures where terrible but they where advertised well. There will always be overhyped lures as long as companies pay professional fishermen to do so. That is why it is best to put lots of time on the water and learn from real life experience and not pay much attention to what some paid fisherman says about a fishing product.
MIbassyaker reply :
On 3/8/2019 at 7:55 AM, soflabasser said:Is it wrong for me to sort of smugly enjoy knowing the fact that there are northerners in muskie waters that have never caught a muskie yet I caught a muskie in my first day of fishing for them while on a weekend vacation? If a person falls into this ''northerner who never caught a muskie in his life group'' then it might make them a little salty knowing that? That salty feeling is very similar to the feeling many gullible newbies in bass fishing have when they buy overhyped gear and realize they did not get what they expected. That is one of the many reasons why I focus more of my time learning on the water to improve my bass fishing game and not so much time on other sources of unreliable information about bass fishing
Not at all wrong! But I already told you: I don't fish for musky, I don't fish much in waters where they are present, and I have only lived here 10 years.
I'm now imagining you hauling in your first musky, "Well, that was easy! What's all this 'fish of a 1000 casts' nonsense??"
Glaucus reply :
I've lived in the North all my life and I've caught exactly 1 muskie. It was last year during a tournament using a KVD 1.5. Total accident. I thought it was a huge bass that would have won it for me. I was so mad when I started to realize the fight just didn't feel right, and then I saw it. I released it quickly without a picture because I was mad at it lol. Minutes later I regretted that so much. Should have captured that moment. But... I don't fish for muskie and I currently don't care if I ever catch one again. But if I do I will snap a picture.
On 3/8/2019 at 8:05 AM, MIbassyaker said:
I'm now imagining you hauling in your first musky, "Well, that was easy! What's all this 'fish of a 1000 casts' nonsense??"
Hahahahaha where I caught my muskie was at a muskie lake I'd never been to before. Leading up to the tournament my buddy was telling me all about it and that he'd been fishing there for years and had never caught one and that I won't either since we don't target them.
Your hypothetical response is basically what I was telling him when we met up later.
But of course I know it was all dumb luck.
soflabasser reply :
On 3/8/2019 at 12:07 AM, Tennessee Boy said:I can't say it bugs me that much. It is a fact of life. Pros are loyal to their sponsors and they should be. I guess it also makes them liars in some cases which is not admirable. I question everyone's motives when they give me advice. I think most of what we hear from pros and the fishing press in general is 90% BS.
I wonder how much money it would take to buy off a Youtuber and make him post videos of him fishing with googan combos with helicopter lures and banjo minnows on top of a fishing jetski?
On 3/8/2019 at 12:14 AM, the reel ess said:Notice how often the shows that feature touring pros are really 30 minute infomercials for the latest innovative new bait? The same bait that will be on clearance at Dick's at the end of the season.
I have noticed that as well.
Logan S reply :
The 'un-named' and 'unspecified' baits are sort of the new way pros are dealing with this and I think it's a nice change....Some pros handle it better than others. When Martens won on the Chesapeake he admitted on camera he wasn't using a Picasso bladed-jig even though he's sponsored by them, he said the ZMan was better for what he was doing. Lots of other examples out there of anglers being honest too.
This was one of my favorite posts related to the topic after Lee won the classic...Everyone knew what the jerkbait was but Lee never mentioned it specifically .
Log Catcher reply :
How about this blast from the past. Bill Dance had the wonderful Dancin Eel out there. It didn't catch fish. It also didn't catch fish over 30 years ago the first time it was put on the market. Guess he thought if he waited long enough nobody would remember it. Sponsor ship is a wonderful thing.
OCdockskipper reply :
On 3/8/2019 at 6:58 AM, MIbassyaker said:
That perception has been sold to you as well, right along with all the material stuff. And it worked -- you bought it.
The fishing industry does not differ from any other industry on the planet in this regard.
Again, declaring that all industry or business is inherently unethical is incorrect. There are ethical companies in all industries and there are unethical companies. Ethical companies succeed and ethical companies fail. Unethical companies succeed and unethical companies fail. In the same way there is no magic lure, there is no magic formula in business that requires you to be either ethical or not ethical in order to succeed.
To paint all industry as unethical comes across as a way to try and justify or rationalize ones behavior. If you are comfortable lying & cheating customers in order to earn your income, that is fine. Just don't make the excuse that one has to act that way in order to succeed, that is a refusal to take responsibility for your choices on how to conduct yourself.
Columbia Craw reply :
On 3/8/2019 at 12:30 AM, J Francho said:That's probably the most reasonable explanation. Didn't think of that!
Some one may have broken into his boat and took all his sponsored baits and he had to scramble to find a replacement until his overnight shipment arrived. He may have got them from one of the two Dicks. That's plausible. I guess it's still winter.
MIbassyaker reply :
On 3/8/2019 at 11:07 AM, OCdockskipper said:Again, declaring that all industry or business is inherently unethical is incorrect. There are ethical companies in all industries and there are unethical companies. Ethical companies succeed and ethical companies fail. Unethical companies succeed and unethical companies fail. In the same way there is no magic lure, there is no magic formula in business that requires you to be either ethical or not ethical in order to succeed.
To paint all industry as unethical comes across as a way to try and justify or rationalize ones behavior. If you are comfortable lying & cheating customers in order to earn your income, that is fine. Just don't make the excuse that one has to act that way in order to succeed, that is a refusal to take responsibility for your choices on how to conduct yourself.
It is not that all industry is inherently unethical. It is that ethical and honest business practice is not consistently or universally incentivized, and cannot simply be assumed. Companies tend to behave as ethically as they want to be, or calculate they need to be in order to maintain profitability and public reputation, and to avoid legal trouble (or at least trouble they can't afford). How much that actually is varies greatly, but no industry is immune from perverse incentives toward dishonest behavior in business, even those that pitch themselves to customers as being principled or wholesome or having values.
We don't actually appear to disagree on the substance here. As you say "there is no magic formula in business that requires you to be either ethical or not ethical in order to succeed." Indeed, that's the point.
TOXIC reply :
Remember, the pro's are fishing for a paycheck. They are going to use whatever bait gives them the best chance to win. Sponsor or not. It's that simple.
Allaroundfishing reply :
On 3/8/2019 at 1:30 AM, Glaucus said:Googan plastics, while not durable, are pretty good.
Yep i agree the bandito bug is my favorite but it has such a high salt content it isnt durable enough to go through more than a few bites.
livin2fish reply :
Doesn't bother me in the least to hear a pro fisherman tout a bait of his sponsor as his goto bait. I figure these guys are good enough that in certain circumstances it can easily be a goto. In all circumstances, not a chance. If we believe goto means every circumstance, then we must be a little naive. Like Toxic says, they have to make a check. The sponsors help make it possible for them to fish.
LonnieP reply :
I could care less about what the pros and youtubers use. I use baits and gear based on what works for me through experience and what I have confidence in.
Allaroundfishing reply :
On 3/8/2019 at 4:34 AM, MN Fisher said:My question is - two rods of the same model but one has a Pro's name attached for an extra charge...is there a functional difference between them or are you just paying for a name?
So yea basically you're paying for the name and scheme but they have different lengths and powers that said Youtuber specifically "designed", I don't know how true that is but thats business I suppose. I own the "Defender series" and a Rigged rod, as well as a balance series and a white bird. All of them perform superb.
Choporoz reply :
JT Bagwell reply :
On 3/8/2019 at 2:17 AM, TOXIC said:Easy way around it.........carry only your sponsor's baits.......period. You will not find another plastic in my boat besides Yamamoto. There's no way I could ever take a picture of anything else, unless someone else brought it aboard. There is no way I could run out and have to use a competitors bait.
Are you sponsored by Yamamoto?
I have personally been sponsored by them for almost 20 years but I still have some sporadic other soft plastics in my boat. Just stuff that GYCB doesn't make like 16" worms and stuff like that.
JT Bagwell reply :
On 3/8/2019 at 7:32 AM, jbsoonerfan said:Do people really buy fishing products based off who endorses them? A few, maybe. A lot, doubtful. The reason I say this, Quantum has to be the least used reel that I know of yet the best Angler in the world for many years was their main man.
I can tell you that when I was a teenager, who used a bait was really important to me. I bought so many baits because Rick Clunn and Hank Parker used them, so they had to be awesome. Once I was older and understood the marketing game, all of that went out the window.
What I will say now that I have been doing things in the Bass Fishing industry, in one way or another for 20 years, is I look more at the type of bait, the color of bait and the technique being used and go from there. I don't care who is using what. If I hear Ike say I am using XYZ jerkbait in this weight, in this color, in this water temp and here is why. Then I will go to my tackle and see if I have something similar to replicate that or get some from my sponsor that fit the same specifications. I am not going to just go buy the exact model that he mentioned.
Trappernewt reply :
On 3/8/2019 at 6:49 AM, 12poundbass said:You mean there is no magic lure that will catch fish all day every day? ????
Yes of course!!! The Banjo Minnow!!
Obi_Wan reply :
On 3/8/2019 at 8:57 PM, TOXIC said:Remember, the pro's are fishing for a paycheck. They are going to use whatever bait gives them the best chance to win. Sponsor or not. It's that simple.
Agree. The cost of running up and down the road is high. They are going to use what they need to use to catch fish. If it's a sponsor's bait, great. If not, no need to mention it. If I was a pro, I would use whatever I needed to win. And I honestly am sick and tired of reading some of those reports because they come off as just an ad for the bait. I want to see more on why the chose a style or hit a certain spot. I'd be ok with saying he was throwing a finesse jig with a batwing trailer. There is more than one finesse jig and batwing trailer. I don't need or want them to do all the work for me. I like the discussions of color or technique more than specific brands of baits. The one on the homepage here about lipless cranks was a great example. It gave some ways to fish them that I hadn't really thought of. Does it really matter which one I use? Maybe. Maybe not.
punch reply :
My favorite thing in tournament fishing coverage right now is that the tours commentary teams can't say "Chatterbait" anymore, they have to say "vibrating jig". Everyone knows that 95% of them are tossing jackhammers (or another zman product).
TOXIC reply :
On 3/9/2019 at 9:55 PM, JT Bagwell said:Are you sponsored by Yamamoto?
I have personally been sponsored by them for almost 20 years but I still have some sporadic other soft plastics in my boat. Just stuff that GYCB doesn't make like 16" worms and stuff like that.
JT, Yes we have been teammates for at least 20 years. I was on the Guide program for about 5 years and full sponsorship for the last 20+. Went to Page for a "Dog Pound" get together and fished Lake Powell. I have been doing shows and demos for that entire time and for a while as Pro-Staff for Bass Pro (15 years). I have written a lot of articles for the Inside Line first when it was a monthly print magazine and when it went to an on-line publication. Although Yamamoto has always encouraged me to use other baits and report back how they compare (which I have done), I have not found any other bait that I can't make a Yamamoto product work just as good if not better. As you know for those that like to throw monster size plastics, Yamamoto has upsized a lot of their baits to 7".
I have the same business card you show in your profile but I did not wear my "Bumblebee" shirt for it. I still have it though
jbsoonerfan reply :
Gary give you any beef discounts? ????
TOXIC reply :
On 3/12/2019 at 6:56 AM, jbsoonerfan said:Gary give you any beef discounts? ????
Gary got out of the beef business. He'd be hard pressed to impress this Nebraska boy with any beef products anyway.
1simplemann reply :
On 3/8/2019 at 9:27 AM, Logan S said:The 'un-named' and 'unspecified' baits are sort of the new way pros are dealing with this and I think it's a nice change....Some pros handle it better than others. When Martens won on the Chesapeake he admitted on camera he wasn't using a Picasso bladed-jig even though he's sponsored by them, he said the ZMan was better for what he was doing. Lots of other examples out there of anglers being honest too.
This was one of my favorite posts related to the topic after Lee won the classic...Everyone knew what the jerkbait was but Lee never mentioned it specifically
I Marshaled for him last year in SD at Lake Oahe. I found it funny that every time he goes out he "ties one on" yet here he was with several MB jerkbaits tied on and not SK jerkbait in sight! To give him credit, he had a good 1st day dropshotting and it WAS a SK bait. Also there was a wind delay the 2nd day so a lot of boats were bunched up waiting for the green light. EVERY boat around me had a MB jerkbait tied on. In 3 days ,I didn't see single fish caught on jerkbait.
BassThumb reply :
On 3/8/2019 at 8:57 PM, TOXIC said:Remember, the pro's are fishing for a paycheck. They are going to use whatever bait gives them the best chance to win. Sponsor or not. It's that simple.
Best summary in the thread.
Besides, what separates them from us is how and where it's fished.
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