Advice for shallow water angler moving out to the deep stuff 2024

Frogman reply :

I am an experienced fisherman. I am very efficient in the grass, flipping docks, dissecting banks with cover and anything else that comes with fishing in less than 10 ft of water. I really struggle once I leave this comfort zone. I have started dedicating my time to only fishing water deeper than my comfort zone. I have had some limited success, but not a lot. I have eliminated a lot of unproductive water.... I think.

Here's my problem, I'm tired of feeling like I am out of options when the shallow water bite isn't there. I know that I am one dimensional and when that top water and shallow water bite is off, i don't know where to go. I keep struggling and fishing all day for the one or two bites I will get in shallow water. I want to be able to change gears of go deep. Sometimes when I decide to try I will sit on a deep point holding my shakey head rig for 20 minutes before I move on and repeat. There is no real process.

Here's what I know. I can read a map. I can find points and humps. I have a ton on my home lake. I know there is no replacement for experience. I also know that there are some very good deep water bass fisherman on here that can begin locating deep water bass very quickly and hone in from there to find the better fish. That's the advice I am looking for. I am willing to put in the time and effort. I will stay out for 6-8 hours scanning humps or slow rolling crank baits. How do you guys figure out where you are going to start, what makes a point or hump a viable spot or not worth stopping at? I am welcoming all advice starting with map reading to what to look for with scanning and how to cover these areas quickly to determine if they are productive. One last piece of info, my home lake is not a river system with ledges. It is a massive spread out man made lake. .

Thanks in advance.

scaleface reply :

Eufala is a classic deep water lake . Home of the Little George . I have a lot of success catching deep water fish but really dont know that much about it . First thing I do is look for a thermocline .That will be the maximum depth . Then I look to see if there is a depth most of the underwater life is congregating . I dont know why fish congregate at a certain depth but they do , maybe a higher O2 content there. Then with these two depths in mind I search out long extended points or other structure . I almost always use buoy's to mark the depth , fish , stump... My two main lures are Texas rigs and crankbaits . The key to crankbaits is they must make bottom contact . If I'm fishing 12 foot I'll use a crank that touches bottom in about 14 or 15 foot . Those Berkely Dredgers stay at the depth a long time and I have caught a lot of fish close to the boat using them . The Red Eye Shad fished like a worm has been very effective . I also fish channels , humps , road beds , flats... too .

I'll often see a lot of activity say at 10 foot and the thermocline is at 18 or so . It will stay that way all across open water and finding structure at that depth may yield several dozen fish . Thats about it for me very simple but effective .

IgotWood reply :

I'm interested in this too. My lake has a max depth of 10-12', and the bottom is covered in thick grass year round. I mainly only fish the banks and a couple of flats. If the bite isn't happening, which is typical from now until April, I have absolutely no idea what to do. I'll fish some drops and steep banks with cranks, jerk baits, etc., but I rarely ever get bit. There are also many downed trees which extend quite a ways off the bank and hit the 8'-10' depths. I've tried everything on this lake with no luck. Already wishing the winter away. C'mon April!!!

Frogman reply :

Thanks. That is helpful. See you have a system and that is what I am looking for. I usually just go out, pick some point I'm familiar with and throw at it aimlessly and catch and occasional fish or two. Using the thermocline, is that a summertime only thing? Do you have the same process in winter when the water cools and they head back down?

hstaple1979 reply :

Deep water can be intimidating. I spent a lot of time this summer in the heat learning how to work deep structure. My best luck came off a neck in my home lake where several docks are located, and a sharp drop. I caught several here using a Shakey head with a green pumpkin senko. I also caught a few with football jigs. The next best area was a long grassy bank where the water went from about 2.5 ft to 25 on a gradual slope. Again, slowly dragging a Shakey head from the grass edge back to the boat picked up a good number of fish.

So far, this fall, most of the fish I've caught haven't been deep (6 to 10 ft) but I have a strategy, and I know where the deep humps and structure are. Keep at it, it'll come.

WRB reply :

The terrain underwater doesn't change from what is above the water in a man made reservoir. When you drive to the lake the road is following structure because it's usually located on the valley floor winding along next to a creek or wider open areas with hills and additional valleys.

When a dam is constructed the valley is filled with water covering the same terrian. Looking at topo maps of your area you can see the terrian changes in 3D and get a visual of what the map is showing using elevation lines.

Being able to interpret maps into a 3D visual is critical to the off shore angler. Today's sonar units do a good interpretation electronically but you still need to be able to see the big picture to put the terrian into perspective.

Bass like changes in depth that give them an advantage to catch prey or use as a resting/sanctuary holding area. Largemouth Bass also like to be able to move up into shallower water and down into deeper water without needing to relocate a distance longer than a few hundred yards if possible, Smallmouth tend to roam further distances making more severe depth changes.

What I look for;

1. What depth are the bass and bait using now? I use my sonar unit in and around the marina to get some idea what depth the life zone is that day.

2. Where are the bass and bait most likely to be located based on seasonal preference.

The answer is what type of prey is most abundant during this time period, bass don't need to go deep if the prey is shallow and will not stay shallow if the prey is deeper. The reason is bass use their air bladder to neutralize bouyancy when resting, so there is a comfortable depth range you see when bass or baitfish are suspended and this depth is what I refer as the life zone you look for with sonar or visually.

So let's apply your shallow water knowledge to deeper water structure. Along the shore you look for places the bass uses to ambush prey like aquatic cover changes in weed types creating a hiding place. Deep structure has different elements that provide hiding places like rock piles, sharp breaks, stumps, trees, brush, undercuts, culverts, bridges, road beds, draws, old walls, fences, foundations and river/creek channels.

3. Meter before you start fishing. This is counter productive for shoreline anglers who like to stop and start fishing at good looking areas. The deep water angler is looking for fish on breaks trying to determine what depth to start at and what lures should be productive at those depths. When you reduce the lake to a depth zone the size shrinks quickly because few bass holding structures are present at any specific depth zone. Long points, humps, that have breaks like small flats and saddles are good starting areas.

Good luck.

Tom

Sam reply :

Here is a pro's secret regarding the impact of shallow bass not being there:

Turn around 180*!!!!

Yes, instead of throwing to the bank, turn around and throw in other direction into deeper water.

Also, if the bass are deep, how about a Carolina rig? Give it a try.

The bass are still in the area around where they were comfortable in shallow water. They moved out into deeper water for what ever reason they did. Go figure.

Good luck.

TnRiver46 reply :

i am much more comfortable and successful fishing deep water. Then again, the water is deep up against the bank where I live. Just cast a Texas rig out there and drag it along the bottom. If you do this enough you will start getting bites in certain areas and put the puzzle pieces together. Sounds like one problem you may have encountered was fishing the same spot too long. Use your shallow water skills to cover water, even though it's deep. Instead of sitting on a point move all around it

Catt reply :

K.I.S.S. ????

You know what shallow areas hold fish?

Start there & do what @Sam said!

Look for deeper water near by, bet there's some!

What grass ya fishing?

Bet it grows offshore!

Y'all know there's a shallow water bite early but how many of y'all know there's an early bite deep as well. The early morning bite aint about water depth, it's about a predator taking advantage of changing light conditions & ambushing prey!

Frogman reply :

Lots more great advice....Keep it coming.

Questions

1. If there is no thermocline, is there still a preferred depth range. If my HB is marking fish or bait consistently at 12-15, do I start there? What about cold water from late fall until spring time?

2. My biggest issue with deep water (I think). How long do you hang out and fish a spot before deciding to look for something else. Being a shallow water fisherman, I make about 6-10 casts (if that), if I haven't been bit, I'm moving on down the line.

Obviously, Side Scan can be a huge help in this scenario since we are trying to locate structure under the water. So we have determined the thermocline and where the fish are hanging out. Do you guys just pull up to an area if the depth range and give an area a shot, or do you scan for structure and bait fish first? Is there something that MUST be present for you to fish an area. Bait? Whatever structure you have patterned them to? These questions seem silly I know. I'm having to try really hard to learn patience and fish an area thoroughly. I know some of these areas can be more productive than they are being for me, but I have trouble hanging out somewhere I don't have confidence in.

lo n slo reply :

i love this kinda talk right here

geo g reply :

On 11/13/2017 at 4:02 AM, WRB said:

The terrain underwater doesn't change from what is above the water in a man made reservoir. When you drive to the lake the road is following structure because it's usually located on the valley floor winding along next to a creek or wider open areas with hills and additional valleys.

When a dam is constructed the valley is filled with water covering the same terrian. Looking at topo maps of your area you can see the terrian changes in 3D and get a visual of what the map is showing using elevation lines.

Being able to interpret maps into a 3D visual is critical to the off shore angler. Today's sonar units do a good interpretation electronically but you still need to be able to see the big picture to put the terrian into perspective.

Bass like changes in depth that give them an advantage to catch prey or use as a resting/sanctuary holding area. Largemouth Bass also like to be able to move up into shallower water and down into deeper water without needing to relocate a distance longer than a few hundred yards if possible, Smallmouth tend to roam further distances making more severe depth changes.

What I look for;

1. What depth are the bass and bait using now? I use my sonar unit in and around the marina to get some idea what depth the life zone is that day.

2. Where are the bass and bait most likely to be located based on seasonal preference.

The answer is what type of prey is most abundant during this time period, bass don't need to go deep if the prey is shallow and will not stay shallow if the prey is deeper. The reason is bass use their air bladder to neutralize bouyancy when resting, so there is a comfortable depth range you see when bass or baitfish are suspended and this depth is what I refer as the life zone you look for with sonar or visually.

So let's apply your shallow water knowledge to deeper water structure. Along the shore you look for places the bass uses to ambush prey like aquatic cover changes in weed types creating a hiding place. Deep structure has different elements that provide hiding places like rock piles, sharp breaks, stumps, trees, brush, undercuts, culverts, bridges, road beds, draws, old walls, fences, foundations and river/creek channels.

3. Meter before you start fishing. This is counter productive for shoreline anglers who like to stop and start fishing at good looking areas. The deep water angler is looking for fish on breaks trying to determine what depth to start at and what lures should be productive at those depths. When you reduce the lake to a depth zone the size shrinks quickly because few bass holding structures are present at any specific depth zone. Long points, humps, that have breaks like small flats and saddles are good starting areas.

Good luck.

Tom

Thanks Tom, always willing to share the knowledge!

WRB reply :

If the life zone is 25’ I usually start looking at the 20’ elevation lines for example, this becomes my new shoreline near or off shore islands or underwater humps. If there is a large flat area at 20’ depth look for coves, points, draws etc associated or connected to that flat that create a deeper break just like the above water shoreline you are used to fishing. No bait, no bass no reason to stay.

Tom

TnRiver46 reply :

Just for an example, I'll talk about today (and recent days). As always, I turn on my graphs when I start fishing. Immediately they light up with fish. I formerly believed that the units were lying about fish being all around until I put on a diving mask and jumped into the water. The river is full of life and the graphs will find it. Problem is a lot of times it is marking gar carp bluegill catfish drum and everything else. This one spot I have been fishing always always always lights up the graph with suspended fish. And I always get bit on the bottom. I have tried cranking to where the suspended fish are, vertical jigging, deep diving suspending plugs, swimbaits counted down, nothing. Pick up a Texas rig and bam they eat it. I can use my graph to locate white bass and crappie but I hardly ever use it to find black bass prior to casting. I Have caught a couple that I marked while trolling and they hit the plug a few seconds later. Basically I am saying you can find the fish a lot easier with fish hooks than you can with the graph, or the least I can. Now I have got on a few good deep bites and looked down at the graph after catching a few and it looked like a bowl of spaghetti on bottom (actively feeding smallmouth). This also differs from lake to lake but every time I fish the TN river with current the graphs are lit up with fish. Even if you turn the sensitivity way down it's still marking fish. Because they are there. Larger deep clear lakes that move slower I sometimes mark a bass and at least try to catch it but that's rare for me. i guess I should have asked this earlier, what kind of water are you fishing and in what part of the world?

scaleface reply :

On 11/13/2017 at 6:55 AM, Frogman said:

1. If there is no thermocline, is there still a preferred depth range. If my HB is marking fish or bait consistently at 12-15, do I start there? What about cold water from late fall until spring time?

2. My biggest issue with deep water (I think). How long do you hang out and fish a spot before deciding to look for something else. Being a shallow water fisherman, I make about 6-10 casts (if that), if I haven't been bit, I'm moving on down the line.

!. Thermoclines make it easier for me and it disappears in cold water . I dont have a clue about Alabama . If I see a lot of fish at a certain depth , thats a good place to start . Find them on a point then fish up to the shallows and on into the creek/cove is a good strategy . I like those creeks with a major point at its mouth .

2. This late in the year there is not enough time to be guessing where the fish are at . I'm going to hit a known deep area or two and if that dont work then fish the banks . How long to stay on a deep spot ? I dont know , just play it by ear .

Team9nine reply :

A lot of successful anglers with a lot of successful approaches, but every water is different and some approaches may or may not work for you. Here's another to consider...

Structure, breaks and breaklines. If you don't know what they are, start by reading Spoonplugging by Buck Perry. Then, don't go deep looking for fish; go deep looking for these three features in the same place/area. That's referred to as a 'structure situation' (when combined with deep water). That's where you want to focus your attention to start. In these areas, cover all depths and speeds with whatever baits you want to use. You don't need to fish these areas long before moving on to the next. Revisit them several times a day, and on multiple days/trips. You'll quickly learn which spots are productive and when, and which ones aren't.

P.S. A thermocline is just a 'breakline,' so use it as one of the three things you're looking for, together.

WRB reply :

Trying to catch suspended bass over deeper water without any bait in the area is futile because those bass are inactive, you learn the depth they are suspended and move over to structure at the depth looking for active bass close to the structure. Those same suspended bass will move over to nearby structure when they become active, they don't vanish.

It takes a long time to know the difference between sonar marks that are bass, carp, stripers, etc that have large air bladders moving slowly. Some key features are vertical stacked marks and long stretched out marks are rarely bass. Active bass are usually marks bunched close together that look attached to the structure or very close to it or very close to bait fish.

Thermoclines are horizontal water temperature breaks and often there are 2 seperated by current breaks if a reservior has aeration system or a power generation dam drawing water creating current.

Lake Casitas for example has a aeration system and often sets up with 2 thermoclines at 30' and 60' during the summer in the dam area with bass occupying both zones. Some thermoclines are very dense within 2' thickness that can shut of DO reaching deeper layers, it's not cut and dry and bass can move up and down to feed. After turn over the water column mixes dissipating the thermocline, then preferred water temps become the key element and your sonar your freind, I believe you are fishing blind without it.

Tom

Frogman reply :

On 11/13/2017 at 9:48 AM, WRB said:

It takes a long time to know the difference between sonar marks that are bass, carp, stripers, etc that have large air bladders moving slowly. Some key features are vertical stacked marks and long stretched out marks are rarely bass. Active bass are usually marks bunched close together that look attached to the structure or very close to it or very close to bait fish

On 11/13/2017 at 8:25 AM, TnRiver46 said:

As always, I turn on my graphs when I start fishing. Immediately they light up with fish. I formerly believed that the units were lying about fish being all around until I put on a diving mask and jumped into the water. The river is full of life and the graphs will find it. Problem is a lot of times it is marking gar carp bluegill catfish drum and everything else.

These are very true statements. I've got over 2K in fish finders and sometimes I'm staring at them wondering if they are speaking a foreign language. I see fish, but I can't always catch said fish. Sometimes I wonder if the things even works! I know I have a healthy population of striped bass in my home lake. I think a lot of times i confuse them for schooling spots. I know that my units are key to my deep water success, or at least a great shortcut. I have been spending a lot of time with them lately. I was basically using them as a depth finder and a temp monitor like so many other shallow water guys. I know a lot of fisherman, and I believe very few of them really know what they are looking at on those 10 to 12 inch screens. I know I have a tough learning curve of figuring what is what, and what to target. Right now I am mainly using them to educate myself of what is under the water. I am looking for bait and structure on points and humps. I'll scan and mark and come back at a later time to fish. I don't usually pay much attention to "fish". I know thats crazy, right?

This is all great advice and greatly appreciated. I am going to digest and apply these things to my fishing. I will update you guys accordingly and let you know how it's going. Thanks and keep em coming!

Catt reply :

On 11/13/2017 at 9:41 AM, Team9nine said:

Structure, breaks and breaklines.

don't go deep looking for fish; go deep looking for these three features in the same place/area.

That's referred to as a 'structure situation' (when combined with deep water). That's where you want to focus your attention to start. In these areas, cover all depths and speeds with whatever baits you want to use.

You don't need to fish these areas long before moving on to the next. Revisit them several times a day, and on multiple days/trips.

P.S. A thermocline is just a 'breakline,' so use it as one of the three things you're looking for, together.

K.I.S.S. ????

DINK WHISPERER reply :

I am in the exact same situation myself. I've always been a shallow water angler here in South Florida. The biggest thing I've found you need is learning to interpret your electronics. A Carolina rig has also been very helpful in finding fish.

frogflogger reply :

The simplest and most straight forward way to find bass in deep water is to troll. Learn to troll and you will learn more about fish behavior - depth and location and your body of water. I know with the popularity of tourn. fishing it has fallen out of favor but it can be an eye-opening experience. I know there are some spoon-pluggers on here hopefully they will chime in -

What you learn trolling can then be utilized with the myriad deep water casting techniques available.

scaleface reply :

On 11/13/2017 at 9:01 PM, frogflogger said:

The simplest and most straight forward way to find bass in deep water is to troll.

I like to troll large flats and double the depths that crankbaits dive . So if I'm trolling ten foot instead of using something like A Deep Little N that fishes well at 10 foot I'll go with something like a Rapala Fat Rap that I usually fish around 5 foot . I try to get the lure to bounce and deflect off the bottom , not dig in . Large flats always end somewhere , often at a cove . That drop off can be a good place .

Team9nine reply :

On 11/13/2017 at 12:49 PM, Frogman said:

I know that my units are key to my deep water success, or at least a great shortcut.

They are just a tool, albeit a very good one if kept in their rightful place. As you allude to though, if not understood or used correctly, you can waste a whole lot of time fishing for "fish" you see on your unit without much success.

9 hours ago, Frogman said:

I am looking for bait and structure on points and humps.

Not to be snarky, but, "No you're not." Points and humps ARE structure. Whatever you're looking for on them isn't 'structure.' Terminology matters.

9 hours ago, Frogman said:

I don't usually pay much attention to "fish". I know thats crazy, right?

Not at all. It's nice to see fish on the finder, but you still have to determine what kind, and whether you can get them to bite. It's much more important to understand the bottom layout first (structure, breaks and breaklines) than it is to see "fish," IMO.

scaleface reply :

I plan on going the next couple of weeks if we get some good old Indian Summer weather . I expect there will not be a thermocline , its been pretty cold here . I dont fish below light penetration . Thats going to be about twenty maybe thirty feet where I fish . I "assume" this because I use to have a light/temp probe . The light and temp always plummeted at the thermocline and being the deepest the thermocline has been this year is twenty foot , that will probably be my maximum depth . The first place I will check out is a point and will fish it thoroughly . This is a good bass producing spot so any fish echoes I'm going to assume are bass . They might not be bass but I'm not good enough to tell the difference . If this point doesnt produce then I'll go shallow . There is one hole in the back of a creek that hasnt failed me in three years .Its approximately 6 foot deep surrounded by four to five foot of water . It has produced at least one fish every visit . Its the remants of the old channel that hasnt silted in completely . Bass will pack in there at times , especially in the fall .

Bass_Fishing_Socal reply :

Good stuffs here and follow closely. I'm in the same boat as OP. I recently moved to a bigger/deeper lake and struggling with bass in deep water.

J Francho reply :

On 11/13/2017 at 7:34 AM, WRB said:

If the life zone is 25’ I usually start looking at the 20’ elevation lines for example, this becomes my new shoreline near or off shore islands or underwater humps. If there is a large flat area at 20’ depth look for coves, points, draws etc associated or connected to that flat that create a deeper break just like the above water shoreline you are used to fishing. No bait, no bass no reason to stay.

Tom

This is exactly how I do it on Lake Ontario and Erie. I start at the 30’ line as my shoreline. Then I look for super structure elements, and then try to locate bait. Find bait, there’s fish there too. Drop shot and Hopkins Shorty spoon are my primary tools.

WRB reply :

I made an effort to point out the importance of being able to understand 2D maps or sonar and seeing in your minds eye 3D details by looking at local physical terrain.

If you can't do this fishing deeper than you can see the bottom becomes very difficult.

Bass move around they do not sit in one spot all day waiting for something to come to them to eat.

Like the shoreline there are specific areas bass use to hunt and feed at and areas they rest, usually not very far apart. Suspending is how bass rest, they just float suspended in place at a specific depth using their fins to keep stable in a near sleeping state I call being inactive. When you see suspended bass over deeper water on your sonar screen with nothing near them those bass are more than likely inactive at that time. The depth these inactive bass are at is important because those bass will remain at or very near that depth when they become active feeders. Look at your lake map find structure nearby that intersects the depth the bass and or baitfish are at. Often a few active bass will be catchable on the structure and more bass should move onto that area as they become more active.

The term moving up doesn't mean moving shallower, it usually means moving horizontal because bass avoid making big depth changes until it becomes necessary to catch prey, then it's a short burst up and down. It takes over 24 hours for a bass to reacclimate to depth changes of more than a few feet, it's a slow process.

Your sonar is more than just a tool, it's your eyes underwater. Can you fish deep structure without sonar? yes if you have intimate knowledge of the structure. Without sonar you can't see the life zone depth without the time consuming trail and error of fishing.

Buck Perry refused to use sonar preferring to troll his spoon plugs to determine what depth the bass were using. Perry fished ledge lakes ideal for trolling and pioneered deep structure bass fishing. Few bass anglers troll lures today, use your sonar. If you are not good reading your electronics hire a good sonar expert bass angler and spend a day on the water learning how to use your equipment, it's important if you want to be good at off shore bass fishing.

Tom

WRB reply :

Lake classifications are named after the terrain they are located in. Using the In-Fisherman classifications of Low Land, High Land, Hill Land, Canyon, Flat land is useful and important to understand when discussing off shore or deep structure bass fishing.

My lakes are all small High Land class lakes with steep banks and few few islands and humps, mostly long major points and secondary points, the deep structure isn't miles off shore, it's a few hundred yards.

I remember Catt posting an old Toledo Bend lake map and was amazed at the number of hills this Hill Land reservior has. Toledo Bend is a massive lake with hundreds of underwater off shore humps miles off shore that could take a lifetime to begin to learn, a structure fishermans paradise.

We need to keep things in perspective to where we fish, how we approach fishing structure should be the same.

Tom

Catt reply :

On 11/13/2017 at 10:46 PM, Team9nine said:

It's nice to see fish on the finder, but you still have to determine what kind, and whether you can get them to bite. It's much more important to understand the bottom layout first (structure, breaks and breaklines) than it is to see "fish," IMO.

????

Frogman reply :

On 11/13/2017 at 10:46 PM, Team9nine said:

Quote

I am looking for bait and structure on points and humps.

Not to be snarky, but, "No you're not." Points and humps ARE structure. Whatever you're looking for on them isn't 'structure.' Terminology matters.

This is insightful.... I have been really focused on finding brushpiles, rockpiles, and things like that on humps and points rather than thinking of them as the actual structure that the fish are relating to. With that being said, I could fish thoroughly from the outside in of the point or hump. I've literally written off barren points with no structure. I've been focused in on rocky points and points I know have rockpiles. I haven't even checked up at a point with barren ground. With all of these posts considered, I should consider any point with access to deep water as a viable option until eliminated.

On 11/13/2017 at 10:46 PM, Team9nine said:

Quote

I am looking for bait and structure on points and humps.

Not to be snarky, but, "No you're not." Points and humps ARE structure. Whatever you're looking for on them isn't 'structure.' Terminology matters.

Frogman reply :

On 11/14/2017 at 12:37 AM, WRB said:

When you see suspended bass over deeper water on your sonar screen with nothing near them those bass are more than likely inactive at that time. The depth these inactive bass are at is important because those bass will remain at or very near that depth when they become active feeders. Look at your lake map find structure nearby that intersects the depth the bass and or baitfish are at. Often a few active bass will be catchable on the structure and more bass should move onto that area as they become more active.

So if I see suspended fish at 10-12 ft, I should be fishing nearby structure in that range. That is very interesting. I had no idea that it took bass so long to acclimate to different depths. I knew there was a process but I didn't know it was that involved.

WRB reply :

It's important to understand LMB anatomy in regards to their air bladder when targeting bass living in water deeper than 35' do to expansion of the air bladder if hooked and brought up to the surface. The air bladder is actually a gas bladder filled with gases from the digestive process. Black bass family don't have bladder values to release gas and like a ballon it increases in size with less external pressure and compresses in size with more external pressure, the pressure being water squeezing the fishes body.

For the bass to suspend it adjusts it's air bladder pressure by being stationary and letting thier body increase or absorb gases, it takes time.

My interpretation of structure is everything that makes up the lake bottom, the earth. Things that grow are cover. Breaks are changes in structure, cover, water temperature and color...changes. A pile of rocks on the lake bottom is isolated structure where ever it's located, on a flat, a hump or a point, etc. Isolated structure tends to give a bass a place to stay near if it's located at the right depth and where a prey source is available.

I believe everyone can learn to read maps and understand structure, breaks and break lines. Not everyone has the ability to locate bass on structure, breaks and breaklines without the aid of sonar to determine the depth the bass are at.

Most bass anglers use the shoreline to orient themselves visually with targets to cast at. When looking at open water surface makes it difficult to know where you are located without a sonar unit and staying on outside structure nearly impossible.

Tom

padon reply :

I'm trying to get better at deep water fishing too,unfortunately my lakes don't seem to have a lot of "character" in the depths.what I mean is you don't see a lot of humps drop offs ridges etc but I have found a few things that have worked for me.one thing I have learned is to trust the depth finder.if it tells you something is down there it's there. It may or may not hold fish but the finder doesn't lie.

BigAngus752 reply :

On 11/13/2017 at 4:11 AM, Sam said:

Turn around 180*!!!!

I'm here to tell you that this works. This is a much more simplistic version of all the things that @Catt @WRB @Team9nine @A-Jay @J Francho have taught me and what they are telling you here. First, learn how to study. Then study. Then you'll find them because they go up and back down, and then up, and then back down again. If you were catching them shallow they got there by following what I now think of as a "bass interstate". I don't work the destinations anymore. I work the highway in between the destinations. Now, thanks to these guys, I find fish! I don't need to know what the weather is. I don't need to know how close the moon is to the sun or whatever. The fish are somewhere along that highway. I'm not smart or knowledgeable enough to say it scientifically like these guys do but I've learned to dumb it down so I understand it. I owe all of these guys a lot of fish and a lot more to come.

Catt reply :

@BigAngus752 from a previous thread

Bass Fishing & Deer Hunting!

Y'all ever notice similarities between the two?

Both have a home, deer bed down in the same area, bass hide in cover in the same area.

Both have kitchens & dining rooms, both have numerous feeding areas.

Both follow the terrain (structure) to & from feeding areas.

Both can be harvested in one of three ways

1. Find their homes; usually located on prime structure & in prime cover, both are setup on structure & in cover that allows them to see all directions at once. Maybe not 360 but it'll be as close as they feel comfortable.

2. Find their feeding areas; multiple areas that have sufficient food to last the present season.

3. Find the trails to & from those areas; both travel structure in a way that allows them to see while remaining unseen.

When I was a teenager my dad would get topographical maps of the areas we deer hunted. I would shade in areas that were White Oak, Live Oak, Pin Oak, Conifers, Soy Bean fields, rye grass fields, & other food sources. I also marked thickets, swamps creek bottoms, marshy areas, & other possible bedding areas.

This knowledge of reading structure was easily applied to bass fishing!

Todd2 reply :

Ok, I'm gonna venture out into left field here. Flats are structure right? So are drop offs, humps, saddles, points, ditches, etc. What's left? Everything on the bottom is structure right? So what we are talking about is fishing structure changes. Pea gravel to chunk rock transition, the end of a flat that drops off to deeper water, ditches have deep water in the middle rising up on each side, points taper out into deeper water, humps rise up into shallower water.

For me I try to visualize these areas and fish something that makes contact with the bottom. My confidence level goes way up when I'm feeling the lure come through cover in these places.

An old man told me one time to cast to the distance that most people have their boats...kind of goes along with the 180 degree thing.

Great thread...

Catt reply :

@Todd2 Breaks/Breaklines ????

Todd2 reply :

On 11/14/2017 at 7:30 PM, Catt said:

@Todd2 Breaks/Breaklines ????

Yup...I always complicate things...lol

Catt reply :

On 11/14/2017 at 8:03 PM, Todd2 said:

Yup...I always complicate things...lol

Exactly where I started!

Keep it simple ????

Team9nine reply :

On 11/14/2017 at 7:09 PM, Todd2 said:

Ok, I'm gonna venture out into left field here. Flats are structure right? So are drop offs, humps, saddles, points, ditches, etc. What's left? Everything on the bottom is structure right? So what we are talking about is fishing structure changes. Pea gravel to chunk rock transition, the end of a flat that drops off to deeper water, ditches have deep water in the middle rising up on each side, points taper out into deeper water, humps rise up into shallower water.

Great thread...

Nope, but I'm an originalist in this regard. Everything ON the bottom is either a break or breakline as Catt said. Structure is a feature OF the bottom.

Catt reply :

Within larger bodies of water we will find 2 "types, classes, groups" of bass.

There are bass that spend their entire lives within a certain distance from a shoreline.

There are bass that spend there entire lives never seeing a shoreline.

There is a shallow & deep "bite" in both areas, we have to decide which pattern will be most productive on a given day. The anglers who can successfully move between the two will consistently catch more & bigger fish.

@Frogman Pick your most productive shallow water area, look at your map (avionics) for water deeper than your "10'" range. What you're trying to find is breaks/breaklines connecting the two.

You mentioned fishing grass, all aquatic vegetation stops growing at a certain depth. Take Hydrilla for instance, it stops growing at 15-18'. That little bit of information just gave me the location of a major breakline! Now you've almost double your depth range!

MrPeanut reply :

I really need to get better at deep fishing - I love this thread.

TnRiver46 reply :

On 11/16/2017 at 6:11 AM, MrPeanut said:

I really need to get better at deep fishing - I love this thread.

It's easy to do when all the water near your house is deep!

Mr. Aquarium reply :

thank you! im a struggling deepwater fishermen, give me shallow cover and im golden. i have a lake with big bass but very little shallow cover and structure! this place is clear and deep with good offshore structure, humps, flats,rocks, weeds, mussel beds,points,steep drop offs! but suck at fishing!! mainly cuz im in a kayak and my humming bird side scan is at home

WRB reply :

Side scan sonar is fairly new to bass fishing standard to off shore salt water fishing. As bass anglers venture off shore in fresh water scanning sonar has become more popular because it saves time.

You can do very well with down looking sonar combined with a good detailed map, just takes more time to meter fish or isolated cover/structure.

Yes, the entire lake bottom is structure and not all structure attracts bait or bass. Give me a break!

Tom

Scarborough817 reply :

On 11/17/2017 at 4:11 AM, WRB said:

Side scan sonar is fairly new to bass fishing standard to off shore salt water fishing. As bass anglers venture off shore in fresh water scanning sonar has become more popular because it saves time.

You can do very well with down looking sonar combined with a good detailed map, just takes more time to meter fish or isolated cover/structure.

Yes, the entire lake bottom is structure and not all structure attracts bait or bass. Give me a break!

Tom

tom do you think it is entirely required to have a map? im debating between 2 units and i can't decide if i need one that will map my lake

J Francho reply :

On 11/17/2017 at 4:13 AM, Scarborough817 said:

tom do you think it is entirely required to have a map? im debating between 2 units and i can't decide if i need one that will map my lake

GPS + mapping is a must have with me. You get it on most units these days anyway.

Scarborough817 reply :

On 11/17/2017 at 4:20 AM, J Francho said:

GPS + mapping is a must have with me. You get it on most units these days anyway.

ya i know my home lake is just fairly small so its not on navitronics so i need a unit capable of mapping it

J Francho reply :

Did you check Lakemaster? That's what I use, they have just about every mud puddle in my area.

Scarborough817 reply :

yep its not listed on there either its a small northern lake in muskoka, ontario

Team9nine reply :

On 11/17/2017 at 4:11 AM, WRB said:

Yes, the entire lake bottom is structure and not all structure attracts bait or bass. Give me a break!

Tom

Tom has spoken, so shall it be... :ph34r:

WRB reply :

On 11/17/2017 at 4:13 AM, Scarborough817 said:

tom do you think it is entirely required to have a map? im debating between 2 units and i can't decide if i need one that will map my lake

Nearly every man made lake has a topographic elevation map of some type and most natural lakes usually have sounding maps that show depths. I made several of my own lake maps using topo map and adding features as I discovered them. I don't know if it's necessary to make your own using mapping sonar, depending on the lake that could a lot of time. It comes down to 10-20% of the lake holds 90% of the bass, maps help you find those areas without wasting a lot of time on the water fishing unproductive areas.

Tom

WRB reply :

On 11/17/2017 at 7:11 AM, Team9nine said:

Tom has spoken, so shall it be...

What I enjoy about the BR site is members don't hide, they express their opinions.

Tom

J Francho reply :

Easy guys, these are critical topics to success!

Keep the useful knowledge flowing.

Frogman reply :

On 11/17/2017 at 8:09 AM, WRB said:

It comes down to 10-20% of the lake holds 90% of the bass, maps help you find those areas without wasting a lot of time on the water fishing unproductive areas.

Tom

This is the ultimate goal. Identifying these waters and learning to maximize their potential. I am fishing a 41000 acre man made reservoir. I can make a lot of assumptions by looking at the lay of the land as it enters the water, but without GPS and mapping systems, it would be a nightmare to locate these more productive waters. I have a lot of respect for the old timers that did it with none of this technology!!!! We are truly blessed to have all of these tools at our fingertips.

Catt reply :

If I had to make a choice it would be down imaging & a paper map!

Paper maps have more details the any electronic maps.

Down imaging because I want to see directly underneath my boat. Not only do we have a lot of grass but we have timber...not just timber but the whole forest!

In the picture below there should be water at least to the top of those stumps & some of the year over em!

WRB reply :

Back in '68 I fished Walter F. George lake before it was called Eufaula and was able to find topo maps to study before making the trip. Other than Lake Shasta and Mead I hadn't fished big reserviors before. From those topo maps the lower 1/3rd of the lake looked familiar to the structure I was familiar with in SoCal and focused on the area nearer the dam on the left side looking at the dam. Long underwater points with steep canyons dropping into the main river channel and lots of big bass. I was the only boat fishing more than 50 yards off shore.

My guess is bass populations are still in that same area and Navionics has excellent 1' elevation maps of Eufaula today.

Like Catt I still look at my old paper lake maps with all my notes and spots marked on them, photos attached, they are priceless to me.

Tom

TnRiver46 reply :

On 11/17/2017 at 9:41 AM, WRB said:

Back in '68 I fished Walter F. George lake before it was called Eufaula and was able to find topo maps to study before making the trip. Other than Lake Shasta and Mead I hadn't fished big reserviors before. From those topo maps the lower 1/3rd of the lake looked familiar to the structure I was familiar with in SoCal and focused on the area nearer the dam on the left side looking at the dam. Long underwater points with steep canyons dropping into the main river channel and lots of big bass. I was the only boat fishing more than 50 yards off shore.

My guess is bass populations are still in that same area and Navionics has excellent 1' elevation maps of Eufaula today.

Like Catt I still look at my old paper lake maps with all my notes and spots marked on them, photos attached, they are priceless to me.

Tom

Canyons going into a river channel........ do you think those would hold big fish year round? I know where a bunch of those are. I fish them some but probably not enough. As you can see on the maps there are plenty to choose from

deep reply :

On 11/17/2017 at 4:11 AM, WRB said:

Yes, the entire lake bottom is structure and not all structure attracts bait or bass. Give me a break!

On 11/17/2017 at 7:11 AM, Team9nine said:

Tom has spoken, so shall it be...

Bet @Team9nine would have agreed if Tom wanted breaklines instead of breaks...

While I don't fish huge lakes or for smallmouths/ spotted bass, what I look for are structures having deep water access (deepest water in the area) and hopefully with breaks (breaklines) at different depths.

Use prior knowledge and/ or seasonal habits to find a structure or two I want to start at. Use the depthfinder to find the depth(s) the fish are at, and then fish structures with breaks at those depths. Works well in an ideal world. In practice, it takes me some/ a lot of trial and error (depending on how well the fish cooperate).

I do have a lot of confidence fishing hard jerkbaits for suspended (inactive?) fish (NLMB, don't know about other kinds of bass). Doesn't work all the time, but when it works I swear it works pretty well. Once again the trick is to fish a bait that stays at the correct depth.

Team9nine reply :

On 11/17/2017 at 9:22 AM, Catt said:

Wow, look at all that structure !!! Or not... Nice pic, Catt!

On 11/17/2017 at 12:30 PM, deep said:

Bet @Team9nine would have agreed if Tom wanted breaklines instead of breaks...

The problem IMO is that using Catt's picture as an example, along with my comment on it, anybody reading it wouldn't really know what I'm referring to, because everybody chooses to have their own definitions. As such, how can you have any kind of coherent conversation when every reader has their own idea of what 'structure' is in that picture, or anytime someone talks about it in a post? According to Tom, there's a lot of structure shown there. I see practically none (only one possibility caught my eye). Based on some other previous comments, all those stumps and standing timber are structure. No wonder it seems like a tough challenge to learn for so many.

Catt reply :

@Team9nine there's a lot of structure in that picture!

Google fishing structure for bass & here's the first thing that shows up!

scaleface reply :

Its easy to confuse structure and cover , heck even the pros do it .Anglers on Youtube videos are constantly doing it . On this forum structure is generally defined as the bottom topography . Good structure would be a depth change such as a point , hump , channel.... All that timber in the photo is cover so would be rip rap , vegetation , brush piles.. . Thats simple to understand .

Breaks and breaklines are a bit more confusing because it can be both cover, timber or even water clarity , and thermoclines . My understanding is a breakline is a change in the environment that can be followed ? Would this be a correct definition .

deep reply :

It's impossible to not fish structure as long as my cast lands in the water.. (i.e. when I'm not fishing for squirrels as one of my buddies likes to say).

Whether or not the structure itself is attractive to fish, or if I'm fishing breaklines and/ or cover (oops should I have said breaks @Team9nine?) at correct depths on said structure (which would increase my odds) are different questions. And don't even get me started on speed.

I think those are the questions the OP is interested in though, unfortunately.

As far as @Catt's picture is concerned, I see plenty of structures. Humps, flats, inlets. Well they would be structures when the water comes up. There's a ton more (underwater) that I can't see. I don't see very many sharp breaks (breaklines) at a cursory glance, but sharpness is relative obviously.

I have no idea- because we don't have the big picture (quite literally)- if I should fish that spot...

On 11/17/2017 at 6:01 PM, Team9nine said:

Based on some other previous comments, all those stumps and standing timber are structure. No wonder it seems like a tough challenge to learn for so many.

Agreed.

On 11/17/2017 at 7:22 PM, scaleface said:

Breaks and breaklines are a bit more confusing because it can be both cover, timber or even water clarity , and thermoclines . My understanding is a breakline is a change in the environment that can be followed ? Would this be a correct definition .

We should blame Buck Perry for that confusion lol. "Break" sounds too much like "breakline". Call all depth or other (light/ O2/ clarity/ temp/ composition/...) changes breaklines and timber, weeds, docks,... etc cover, and realize that they are fundamentally different, and be done with it.

scaleface reply :

In this map of a creek in Mark Twain Lake , there is the major creek channel to the west with several small creeks feeding it from the east . The east is a large flat used as a farm field . The squiggly lines on the map are woods . The area in the middle of the black circle I drew ,has a point "structure" , little creek channel " break line" that has a direct path to the deep channel and woods " cover" . These are the type of places I look for when studying maps . Its easily overlooked .

Catt reply :

@deep

When the subject of structure fishing comes up many people incorrectly assume you are referring to deep water fishing this is partially untrue. It doesn't matter if you are fishing bank shallow or 40' deep your are fishing structure that is if you are catching fish.

In its pure form, structure is defined as relating to those permanent topographical differences within a body of water... shape of the bottom.

Breakline: A breakline can have more than one meaning. It can be another word for a drop-off/ledge, or a point of any quick change in depth. It can also be used to describe the edge of a vegetation line. For example, a "weed break" is the area of the weed bed where the weeds meet up with open water; or, where one type of weed meets up with another. The next example happens when bottom composition changes, as different weeds prefer different types of bottom composition. In rocky impoundments, a breakline can also describe a line where rock meets mud, pea gravel, etc. In other words, the most correct definition for a breakline is "Any distinct line that is made by cover or structure which leads to an abrupt change in bottom depth, composition, or cover transition.

For this dumb coonass it's about starting at the bottom!

First the general shape of the bottom (soil, dirt, terra firma); humps, ridges, points, creek/river channels, ext.

WRB reply :

Responding to the OP's request to help moving out to the deep stuff means moving away from shore or off shore verses on shore. I believe we have answered that question and debating the meaning of structure and/or cover because terms used in bass fishing have different meaning regionally.

Catts above definition is the same as the majority of bass anglers. Where we differ is agreeing what cover is, but as long as you recognize both are important to locate bass, then we are all on the same page.

Bass fishing is a simple sport with lots of variable or details to make challenging.

I haven't had the time to study any of the maps posted. Without knowing the depth to fish map reading needs to include depths normally fished and for me that is surface to 40' until I determine otherwise by being on the water.

Tom

Catt reply :

After structure, breaks, & breaklines comes cover and then food source.

And we aint hit on weather or water conditions ????

Team9nine reply :

On 11/13/2017 at 12:32 AM, Frogman said:

Here's what I know. I can read a map. I can find points and humps. I have a ton on my home lake. I know there is no replacement for experience. I also know that there are some very good deep water bass fisherman on here that can begin locating deep water bass very quickly and hone in from there to find the better fish. That's the advice I am looking for. I am willing to put in the time and effort. I will stay out for 6-8 hours scanning humps or slow rolling crank baits. How do you guys figure out where you are going to start, what makes a point or hump a viable spot or not worth stopping at? I am welcoming all advice starting with map reading to what to look for with scanning and how to cover these areas quickly to determine if they are productive. One last piece of info, my home lake is not a river system with ledges. It is a massive spread out man made lake. .

Thanks in advance.

In my approach, the best spots (potentially), or at least the ones I want to search out and check first, are those that have the best combination of structure, breaks, breaklines and deep water, all in the same general area and related to each other. Based upon the definitions of those terms I use, it's a pretty simple and straightforward process. Based on some of the other definitions given, that approach won't get you very far.

On 11/17/2017 at 7:22 PM, scaleface said:

Its easy to confuse structure and cover , heck even the pros do it .Anglers on Youtube videos are constantly doing it . On this forum structure is generally defined as the bottom topography . Good structure would be a depth change such as a point , hump , channel.... All that timber in the photo is cover so would be rip rap , vegetation , brush piles.. . Thats simple to understand .

Breaks and breaklines are a bit more confusing because it can be both cover, timber or even water clarity , and thermoclines . My understanding is a breakline is a change in the environment that can be followed ? Would this be a correct definition .

Life is a lot simpler when you view everything as either structure, breaks or breaklines. It's interesting that Buck's book was 170 something pages long, and the term "cover" was given all of 2 paragraphs of coverage - lol.

Breaklines are technically still just breaks, but they extend for a distance. Usually it involves a depth change, either shallower or deeper, but as mentioned, a lot of other things can be considered breaklines. So a couple fenceposts sitting together would be a "break", but a submerged fence bordering an old property line or farm field (a line of fenceposts) would be a breakline. I'm not sure I would use the term "environment" in the definition though.

On 11/17/2017 at 9:49 PM, deep said:

It's impossible to not fish structure as long as my cast lands in the water.. (i.e. when I'm not fishing for squirrels as one of my buddies likes to say).

Whether or not the structure itself is attractive to fish, or if I'm fishing breaklines and/ or cover (oops should I have said breaks @Team9nine?) at correct depths on said structure (which would increase my odds) are different questions. And don't even get me started on speed.

Obviously I completely disagree with that statement - lol - but it will make a lot of anglers happy to know they can now consider themselves "structure fishermen," even if all they do is just blindly move down the shoreline beating every inch of water.

WRB reply :

We are not all wired the same and that is a good thing.

Some folks tend to be analytical thinkers seeing things is detail and can focus on these small pieces while putting the entire puzzle together. Other folks will never focus on small details and only see the entire puzzle. Being an engineer by trade and aptitude I am in the detailed focus group. This doesn't mean what I see is right or the only solution to solve a problem, it's my solution to the problem.

Team9nine, Catt, Deep and others all see things differently through their perspective and experiences that we all can benefit from if we share them. It's difficult for me sometimes to express myself without upsetting some folks, it's my black & white analytical thought process and apologize in advance, it's the way I am wired.

Unlike nearly everyone off shore bass fishing for me isn't just bass fishing, it's targeting big bass because that is where I catch the majority of big bass and spend a lot of time fishing deep structure.

What I see looking at Catts picture is 2 youngsters casting from a beach that has a groove of tall tree stumps and a few isolated short stumps. The tree groove creates a edge that is considered a breakline and that is where I would start to fish if it's the right depth at that time. If that groove of stumps is under 100' of water it would't be of interest, 10'-20' it would be looking good, dry like the photo it would go into memory and marked on my paper map.

Tom

12poundbass reply :

Don't run out of steam the popcorn just finished!

I've said it before I'll say it again this stuff is free?

I've been on here a little over a year. When I first came here I would've looked @Catt picture and saw two kids fishing. Now like @WRB I see a "break line" and I see a few isolated short stumps I'd target first. I don't know if that's correct but it's better than just seeing 2 kids fishing.

Thanks guys for your wisdom, insite, help you bring to BR. It truly is priceless.

@Team9nine I haven't given up, I'm still reading!

deep reply :

On 11/18/2017 at 2:10 AM, Team9nine said:

Obviously I completely disagree with that statement - lol - but it will make a lot of anglers happy to know they can now consider themselves "structure fishermen," even if all they do is just blindly move down the shoreline beating every inch of water.

Structure: The bottom of the lake with some unusual features that distinguish it from the surrounding bottom area. (Buck Perry)

Structure is the bottom of the lake. If you turned over a smooth aluminium bowl and beat it with a heavy object, the resulting bumps and depressions on the inside of the bowl would be comparable to the high spots, ridges, and depressions found on the bottom of structured lakes. (Bill Murphy)

All I'm saying is the whole lake bottom is composed of different structures, separated by breaklines. Some structures hold fish certain times of the year, some hold fish all year round, some are rarely/ never visited by fish.

Also, I'm pretty sure you don't have to fish on the bottom to fish structure.

I do admit I haven't addressed the catching part yet.

Frogman reply :

Guys I can't thank you enough for the wealth of information that has been put out of this thread. I will absolutely admit that I have always considered what you guys call "cover" to be "structure". I knew there was a lot of knowledge here and that's why I made the original post. I have literally been reanalyzing everything about my situation due to this thread. Also, Buck Perry and his book have been referenced so many times that I have already ordered a copy from Ebay. I am anxious to give this a read. I am headed out to fish all this "new structure" I found on my map! Thanks guys!

Scarborough817 reply :

On 11/17/2017 at 10:21 PM, scaleface said:

In this map of a creek in Mark Twain Lake , there is the major creek channel to the west with several small creeks feeding it from the east . The east is a large flat used as a farm field . The squiggly lines on the map are woods . The area in the middle of the black circle I drew ,has a point "structure" , little creek channel " break line" that has a direct path to the deep channel and woods " cover" . These are the type of places I look for when studying maps . Its easily overlooked .

do you mind labeling the things you mentioned i want to make sure i am reading this properly

scaleface reply :

On 11/18/2017 at 9:12 PM, Scarborough817 said:

do you mind labeling the things you mentioned i want to make sure i am reading this properly

These are five foot topographic lines . This is a rare map with lots of detail . I colored it in with hi-liters.

1: is a point . If you look closely there is another small point across the feeder creek .

2: is a small feeder creek . You can see how it is deeper than the surroundings . It's makes a direct path to the main channel . The creek gets squeezed between the two small points .

3; The squiggly lines are standing timber .

4: The main channel .

See how 1 , 2 and 3 all congregate at one small spot 10 to 15 foot deep .

On this map the topo numbers are feet above sea level . Normal pool is 606 feet above sea level . I colored it in at 605 .

So when the map reads 600 that is 6 foot deep at normal pool . 575 is 31 foot deep .

Scarborough817 reply :

perfect thank you

scaleface reply :

On 11/18/2017 at 10:03 PM, Scarborough817 said:

perfect thank you

I call that type of point a secondary point . It doesnt extend very far . Just a small one in the creek . The large main lake points are simple to find .

Bankbeater reply :

If it were me fishing deep in a new lake, and if that lake had a creek bed, I would start there. The bed gives the bass a path to follow, has access to shallow and deep water, and will probably have some kind of cover in it. The best thing I like about creek beds is that they are long. You can anchor above them and work the bait back right down the center.

As for the difference between cover and structure, I keep it very simple. Structure will withstand the test of time and remain the same. Cover will rot, die out, or be changed by water level, and weather.

Team9nine reply :

On 11/18/2017 at 6:25 AM, deep said:

Structure: The bottom of the lake with some unusual features that distinguish it from the surrounding bottom area. (Buck Perry)

Structure is the bottom of the lake. If you turned over a smooth aluminium bowl and beat it with a heavy object, the resulting bumps and depressions on the inside of the bowl would be comparable to the high spots, ridges, and depressions found on the bottom of structured lakes. (Bill Murphy)

All I'm saying is the whole lake bottom is composed of different structures, separated by breaklines. Some structures hold fish certain times of the year, some hold fish all year round, some are rarely/ never visited by fish.

It would follow then, that the bottom of the lake without any unusual features to distinguish it from the surrounding bottom area, would have no structure...this also takes care of the misleading/incorrect Murphy book statement - lol

A couple examples straight from one of Buck's articles showing a lot of lake bottom (and some "cover," i.e., 'breaks'), but 'No Structure' according to Buck.

deep reply :

@Team9nine

I concede 10-A and 11-A would be easier to fish.

How do you fish a bowl-shaped pond?

How about a reservoir with silted in channels? The breaklines are still there, just (a lot) less pronounced.

Do you consider a "flat" a structure?

Todd2 reply :

Seems like everybody is saying close to the same thing...with just different terminology. Good thing Bass don't care..lol

I like these screen shots. I'll add one. I fished this creek yesterday, it's fairly popular at this lake. I was pretty much skunked until I hit the spot where the creek bed pulls away from the bank. That part of the flat where the "V" is just to the left of the 600 is where I caught 3 fish in about 5 casts...nothing huge, big one was pushing 3lbs..didn't catch another fish in that creek. Even though this spot is not out away from the bank, it has deep water access. These little spots are golden IMO.

Catt reply :

One of my favorite "structures" ????

WRB reply :

When I first started posting and reading posts on bass fishing forums like Bass Insider the terminology used was like a foreign language. The fact That I have fished all over the country, Canada and Mexico should have exposed me to some of this local or regional jargon but it still confused me and continues to do so at times.

Saying structure isn't structure if it doesn't attract bass at that moment is more than confusing. Calling cover structure because of it's location is also subjective and tends to be confusing. Pitting a old technology pioneer Buck Perry against another from a later generation like Bill Murphy is counter productive, both offer good insights into bass fishing.

Looking at contours without considering water temperature and fish depths is a partial study, but helpful in focusing your effects in productive areas. You can have lots of fishing holding structure with cover without any bass there if it's too deep under a thermocline or in an area without a prey source. Lots of factors to consider that can't be learned without being on the water.

Learning to find bass on lakes like fig 10B & 11B isn't easy, 10A& 11A are very easy and common knowledge with today's bass anglers. Labeling 11B no structure is more than confusing.

I have caught hundreds of bass off of banks like 10B or nothing banks when wind has pushed bait onto those banks. Isolated standing timber in 11B would be worth fishing because it gives bass several depths to use and a place for bait hide.

When studying maps look for areas that have several structure elements close together.

My favorite styles of structure are small flat areas located on steep breaks and saddle areas located between higher areas, add both together and it's worth checking.

Tom

Team9nine reply :

On 11/19/2017 at 12:14 AM, deep said:

@Team9nine

I concede 10-A and 11-A would be easier to fish.

How do you fish a bowl-shaped pond?

How about a reservoir with silted in channels? The breaklines are still there, just (a lot) less pronounced.

Do you consider a "flat" a structure?

How do you fish a bowl-shaped pond?

Depends somewhat on depth, water clarity, etc., but in most cases there will be no true structure, but you almost always have breaks and breaklines. In shallower ponds, "cover" becomes the defacto 'home' that replaces the depth component. The 'home', or the area, where the fish spend the greater part of their time is under the weeds, brush, or 'under-cuts' in the bank, etc.. Breaks and breaklines become your areas of initial concentration, along with the deepest water areas of cover. Every pond will be a bit different, but I fish several currently that fit the above description.

How about a reservoir with silted in channels? The breaklines are still there, just (a lot) less pronounced.

Not a whole lot changes in the case of a silted in reservoir. You still work the features (structure, breaks, and breaklines) as far out into the deep water as possible, but no deeper than recognizable features allow. You stop at the last recognizable features. Even small, less pronounced breaklines (to us), are easily followed (and probably very obvious) to a fish. I see this a lot in small dish bowl ponds where a small "trail" across a flat only inches deeper than the surrounding water is what the fish use to move into and away from some shorelines.

Do you consider a "flat" a structure?

No, I don't.

WRB reply :

Yes, my favorite structure is a small flat located on steep banks.

Tom

Team9nine reply :

On 11/19/2017 at 3:08 AM, WRB said:

Yes, my favorite structure is a small flat located on steep banks.

Tom

Good for you Thanks for sharing...

WRB reply :

I have read numerous articles and listened to lots of pro's make the claim LMB need a physical structure element to navigate from point A to point B. They must follow channel breaks for example to migrate up and down the lake or big bays and arms.

It's a foundation of bass migration is based on that I don't believe. Will they follow breaks, yes. Will they swim from one side of the lake across deep to other side, yes. How do you think the bass miles off shore got there? The answer is they swam there across water without any break to follow.

Bass are ambush feeders so they prefer locating where structure and or cover provides a place to feed. Deep off shore structure provides funnel zones that baitfish gather and current or wind pushes plankton for baitfish to feed on, that is where you want to fish...where the active bass are located.

Tom

Team9nine reply :

I don't think anyone is stating absolute needs or truths in regards to how, when or where bass move or feed. I know I'm not foolish enough to believe such things exist. However, we all have our methods, experiences and learnings that we use successfully. You have stated yours at length and in great detail, and I certainly read and respect that, even if I don't completely agree with some of it. However, the OP's question was in regards to what we thought to be the quickest way to assess and locate deep water bass and be successful. To that end, IMHO, finding and fishing obvious structural elements and related breaks/cover and breaklines/edges (whatever terms you prefer to use) is a pretty simple and straightforward approach that doesn't take years of experience or knowledge to begin putting to work. A little map study and some basic understanding will get you started rather quickly.

slonezp reply :

You guys complicate everything

WRB reply :

Ish creek, Navonics map shot posted by TnRiver46 on the Tennessee River (lake?) is interesting.

Looks like a spawning area that would hold year around bass populations. The canyon leading into the main (lake) river doesn't look as good to me as the island with it's points and spawn coves, the end towards the main lake has 2 good looking points close together and the opposite end there is a bench and at least 2 humps in 15' with a saddle connecting them near the buoy marker , very interesting creek arm area.

Tom

TnRiver46 reply :

On 11/19/2017 at 2:05 PM, WRB said:

Ish creek, Navonics map shot posted by TnRiver46 on the Tennessee River (lake?) is interesting.

Looks like a spawning area that would hold year around bass populations. The canyon leading into the main (lake) river doesn't look as good to me as the island with it's points and spawn coves, the end towards the main lake has 2 good looking points close together and the opposite end there is a bench and at least 2 humps in 15' with a saddle connecting them near the buoy marker , very interesting creek arm area.

Tom

Thanks, ish creek is definitely an extremely popular spot to see bass boats (and crappie). I see people posted up where the creek goes into the river all the time, maybe they are fishing the obvious as opposed to the hidden gems

WRB reply :

Ok, it's a screen shot of the river not a riverine lake on the Tennessee River.

Rivers have constant flowing current that is faster close to shore, slower in deeper water.

So whenever a side creek channel interrupts the river current flow creating eddies fish of all types will be located there. This makes Ish creek even more of interest to bass and remember crappie are a food source for bass, both species will use the water protected from current to spawn. Pre spawn bass will move near those protected areas located near deep water. I don't see any reason for the Largemouth bass to leave Ish creek area, the Smallmouth may move into the inlet structure.

Tom

WRB reply :

Frogman, I looked for my old Eufaula paper map to send you a copy of, couldn't locate it, probably lost in the '94 earthquake like so many other things.

I recall the MLF program had a finals fished at Eufaula and fished the entire lake divided into 3 sections, the 1st being the lower 1/3rd. The contestants focused there effort very near the area I was recalling, except today the lake has lots of hydrilla it didn't have before. There wasn't any wood off shore back then, it was all rocks.

If you look at your map you see a big main channel swing moving away from the opposite shore that has a big flat area with multiple revines cutting through it and several humps about 200 to 300 yards off shore. I don't have a Eufaula map to reference, pure memory and getting foggy! If you post a map of that section, I will be glad to look at it and discuss it in detail.

Tom

TnRiver46 reply :

On 11/20/2017 at 6:01 AM, WRB said:

Ok, it's a screen shot of the river not a riverine lake on the Tennessee River.

Rivers have constant flowing current that is faster close to shore, slower in deeper water.

So whenever a side creek channel interrupts the river current flow creating eddies fish of all types will be located there. This makes Ish creek even more of interest to bass and remember crappie are a food source for bass, both species will use the water protected from current to spawn. Pre spawn bass will move near those protected areas located near deep water. I don't see any reason for the Largemouth bass to leave Ish creek area, the Smallmouth may move into the inlet structure.

Tom

Well it's a screenshot of ft loudoun lake, the first reservoir on the Tennessee river proper (furthest upstream). It is a "lake" with good current though

Team9nine reply :

On 11/17/2017 at 9:53 AM, TnRiver46 said:

Canyons going into a river channel........ do you think those would hold big fish year round? I know where a bunch of those are. I fish them some but probably not enough. As you can see on the maps there are plenty to choose from.

If I'm understanding your terminology, we refer to them as "side feeder stream cuts," and they are always very high on the list of places to check out on a reservoir.

TnRiver46 reply :

On 11/20/2017 at 10:08 AM, Team9nine said:

If I'm understanding your terminology, we refer to them as "side feeder stream cuts," and they are always very high on the list of places to check out on a reservoir.

I borrowed the terminology from WRB, when I read his "canyons going into a river channel" a couple dozens spots came to mind. Basically what used to be a creek going into a river and is now flooded is what I imagined. We don't use the term canyon in TN but they are all around. "Holler"(hollow) valley or gorge is what hillbillies call em

Team9nine reply :

Makes sense - much more prevalent out west, both the water type and the terminology. However, I was surprised to see there are three state Canyon parks in Alabama which I never would have guessed. Either way, definitely worth checking out these areas.

wakeeater reply :

TNRiver46, I'm on fort loudoun all the time & the fishing has definitely been off. I think the fall bite is late, but should be turning on soon. Hopefully this weekend.

TnRiver46 reply :

On 11/24/2017 at 10:06 PM, wakeeater said:

TNRiver46, I'm on fort loudoun all the time & the fishing has definitely been off. I think the fall bite is late, but should be turning on soon. Hopefully this weekend.

Cool dude, I think I recognize your screename from another site. I fished tellico today and got tiny bass

ClackerBuzz reply :

I've been at it for 2 seasons and if I could give you one piece of advice it would be: don't bother fishing deep unless ur using a sonar unit. fishing days are too few and life is too short.

saamyb reply :

If the fish have moved deep I normally scan humps and points and ledges for bait , If they don't have bait I don't fish em

WRB reply :

Deep bass are still bass and don’t behave differently. You can catch active feeding bass easier than inactive bass, look for feeding activity using your sonar.

Tom

scaleface reply :

When you are going over some structure like a point and there looks like spaghetti on the depth finder , that is active fish . It might be black bass might not .

A-Jay reply :

On 12/16/2017 at 5:23 AM, scaleface said:

When you are going over some structure like a point and there looks like spaghetti on the depth finder , that is active fish . It might be black bass might not .

Spaghetti ?

Don't know if I need a new unit or a Menu ~

A-Jay

scaleface reply :

On 12/16/2017 at 5:28 AM, A-Jay said:

Spaghetti ?

Don't know if I need a new unit or a Menu ~

A-Jay

I need to get a picture next year . I have an old eagle Fish Mark that I converted to a portable unit and when I see spaghetti at a small local lake ' I'm going to be busy catching fish for awhile .

TnRiver46 reply :

On 12/16/2017 at 5:31 AM, scaleface said:

I need to get a picture next year . I have an old eagle Fish Mark that I converted to a portable unit and when I see spaghetti at a small local lake ' I'm going to be busy catching fish for awhile .

I know the spaghetti you speak of........

9977

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